Lots of people lately think homosexuals are a different person, and belong to a different class then themselves.

What do others think that is so bad with homosexuals? I just dont get it.

Talk about other issues with homosexuals if you want. I'm just starting the discussion.

Hm, while I have nothing against homosexual people, I will never understand them either.

I think homosexual people act a bit different because majority of the people just don't accept them for some reason, so they act a bit weird sometimes. I met some homosexual people and they're just the same as heterosexual people, nothing different if you accept them. It's just that some people don't understand the idea of homosexual and heterosexual, so they don't accept them, and criticize, isolate homosexual people...sigh...

People who think gay people are "different" are narrowminded in my opinion. They may have different ideas then what is concidered "normal" but still, they are the same human beings with the same feelings as anyone. I don't see what's wrong with it, my favourite teacher is gay and he's a great guy.

Hmm, I don't know what's different from homosexuals and heterosexuals. And bisexuals. I don't think us any different from each other, in the matter of sexual preference, that is. After all, we're only here for a limited period of time . . . might as well enjoy the ride.

I have a good friend who is a lesbian. She's really funny and good to talk to. I can't deny that maybe what she likes is different to what other people like, since she likes wearing clothes which are a bit more noticeable. I know she has a pair of pink leopard print spandex trousers, for instance, heh. Sometimes she does make jokes concerning her sexuality, but she never means them in a bad way. Sometimes she might call somebody a "hetero" or say that boys are disgusting, but she always means it as a joke. She has both male and female good friends. But I don't think of her as different at all, she's a nice person as she is.

Originally posted by Hiei@Jan 1 2005, 04:51 PM
Lots of people lately think Homos are a different person, and belong to a different class then themselves. I'm gay (male), and i've been through all of these.

What do others think that is so bad with homos? I just dont get it.

Talk about other issues with homos if you want. I'm just starting the discussion.
I got nothing against gays, that would be stupid, since I am gay.

and all my friends tell me I act just like everyone else, and besides, i just ignore the people that want to start crap

I have nothing against them & want it to stay that way, unless any hot lesbians come my way that is ;) (think that was clean enough)

well... i have nothing against a person being a homosexual, and i can understand that some people have different tastes (in loving). The only people i cant understand are males who act like women, dress like them, etc. (transvisthingy?)

I have nothing against homosexuals either- good for them!


The only people i cant understand are males who act like women, dress like them, etc. (transvisthingy?)

Why? Why should males be afraid to wear skirts and dresses? Women wear trousers dont they? How is it any different? I wear skirts all of the time- its a way of expressing myself- it doesn't mean that there's anything *wrong* with me, or that i'm a transvestite. People are okay with it too- they just call me a "temperemental artist". And this does kind of relate to the topic, because people shouldn't be afraid to be themselves, just because they wont be seen as "normal" by society.

I'm not really bothered what peoples sexuality is, its really a very personal thing.
Dose it matter how people dress/act I thought people maybe had moved along from static ideas of whats acceptable.

We are all humans. I think it's ridiculous to consider someone "different" just because of their sexual preference.

Being homosexual is only a preference in sex, nothing more. Same with lesbians. Its all a preference. Yet such a tiny thing can change a whole person's perspective on someone. Simply amusing.

Originally posted by Gand@Jan 1 2005, 09:34 PM
We are all humans. I think it's ridiculous to consider someone "different" just because of their sexual preference.
Yep. Agree. One of my best friend is bi, but I don't think of her as a "different" person. She's a great listener and a great person to talk to.

Originally posted by Harv@Jan 2 2005, 09:35 AM
Homosexuals are gay
And you came up with that all by yourself?


I accept people on face value alot of the time and my own personal saying "I accept what there is, not what there may be" comes into play here. I have nothing wrong with homosexuals or anything. They are people just like you and me and I think it's awful the way they get treated sometimes in society. I did a recent research paper on them for Legal Studies and some of the laws these people have and don't have is pretty atrocious.

I thought we left all this inequality crap in the 20th Century. It's the new age people ~

The way I see it, as long as somebody is happy with themselves and not hurting anybody then let them live the way they want.

im my experience people fear homosexuals, the treat it as a desiese that they can catch. Its is the ignorant that create this sort of seperation.

I see homosexuals as i do anyother person, as a person within there wn right, not a classfied group. I hang out with Bisexuals homosexuals and it doesnt matter, they are good friends

I've got quite a few bisexual/lesbian friends - such lovely girls ^_^ In the case of lesbians I have a weird theory that lesbians are bisexuals waiting for the right man to come along. Sometimes they never find that man so they continue to have relationships with girls and so on - bleh, that doesn't really make a lot of sense, but one of my lesbian friends is fine with the idea of kissing a woman, hugging etc and living with her, yet cannot for the life of her imagine the idea of having sex with one. So I think she's really just waiting for the right person to come along and love her for who she is, be it man or woman. I mean, if you're attracted to them and they treat you well, does it matter what sex they are?

im not sure about that theory, my gf is bi, its npurely what turns u on(sorry to be crude)

all resbians i have met are not turned on by guys in the slightest...it was funny asl of us watching girls go by,

Hehe, oh well, bye-bye to my theory XD

bahh, as long as the human being in question is happy with the person he/she is with, whats the problem?

Oh it there life let them do what they want! If thats the way the feel so be it...

I believe Pierre Trudeau put it the best (This is when he past the legislation that made homosexual acts of "love" legal, before the 1960's it was not in canada... and majority of the world)

Primeminister Trudeau:
The state has no business in the nation's bedrooms.

Yet today when you walk down the street you often see people who would make fun of homosexuals.

Kind of makes you wonder though, who really has the "problem" if you will, the people who arn't willing to accept anyone not like themselves, or the people who are strong enough to tell how they really feel...

Too bad some people are narrowminded. ~_~

I think the only thing that makes homosexuals distinct is their sexual preference. :think: They're just like any other person with their own set of preferences.
We had a few gays & lesbians coming to our CAPP class to talk and man were they nice people. ^_^ They're just people, I accept them like everyone else.


Originally posted by madmazda86
In the case of lesbians I have a weird theory that lesbians are bisexuals waiting for the right man to come along.watched Blind Date months ago. A girl on the show said "After today's date (which was horrible), I'm seriously considering of lesbianhood".. I guess it applies to some. ^^;

I don't think many people go through life without having at least one crush on the opposite sex - exploring one's sexuality is part of growing up, and many foray into homosexuality just to satisfy curiosity.

^ nooo, seriously?!!! *sarcasm*

people who wear skirts is one thing (e.g. Scottish Kilt)

people who wear skirts, dresses, use makeup, go through plastic surgery and add breasts and such, act like girls, and confuse guys so that they think they are sleeping with a women is a whole different matter. At least thats my opinion.

I can still remain friends with someone who is gay, but not with a transvisthingy (spelling please)

Just like Gand Said: I have nothing against sexual preferences

Edit: idiot...

Kilts are scottish, not Irish.

There are Irish kilts & tartans though

In that case I didn't say anything :whistle: kilts are known for being Scottish though ~

Originally posted by Alone@Jan 2 2005, 06:38 PM
^ nooo, seriously?!!! *sarcasm*

people who wear skirts is one thing (e.g. Scottish Kilt)

people who wear skirts, dresses, use makeup, go through plastic surgery and add breasts and such, act like girls, and confuse guys so that they think they are sleeping with a women is a whole different matter. At least thats my opinion.

I can still remain friends with someone who is gay, but not with a transvisthingy (spelling please)

Just like Gand Said: I have nothing against sexual preferences

Edit: idiot...
I'm gay and thats all there is to it,

I'm a guy and i'm attracted to guys, I don't think I was supposed to be a female, I don't dress like a female, I don't talk or act even remotely like a female. I don't date any gay person that dresses like a woman or anything like that.

I'm pure male looking for a pure male and thats the way it is. :thumb:

Originally posted by Paradox@Jan 3 2005, 09:00 AM
I'm a guy and i'm attracted to guys, I don't think I was supposed to be a female, I don't dress like a female, I don't talk or act even remotely like a female. I don't date any gay person that dresses like a woman or anything like that.
Heh, yeahh the gay male stereotype must really be annoying to be labeled with.

i have no problem with homosexuals. my friend is bi, and i let her put her arms around me and stuff, and i see these people that walk by and give us weird and disgusted looks. i don't see what's wrong with it.

I'm so sorry, but I don't support homosexuality.

I just think that being gay causes so many problems that it's not worth it... And I know there are other situations that have a bad effect, but why add to the list? I would elaborate, but I don't know if it would be respectful or not. :unsure:

Originally posted by Alone@Jan 2 2005, 06:38 PM
^ nooo, seriously?!!! *sarcasm*

people who wear skirts is one thing (e.g. Scottish Kilt)

people who wear skirts, dresses, use makeup, go through plastic surgery and add breasts and such, act like girls, and confuse guys so that they think they are sleeping with a women is a whole different matter. At least thats my opinion.

I can still remain friends with someone who is gay, but not with a transvisthingy (spelling please)

Just like Gand Said: I have nothing against sexual preferences

Edit: idiot...
transvestite? and that is wrong because...?

Capn: what problems are you speaking of?

it just bothers me. *shrugs* i cant help, but i think thats overdoing it

im not saying its wrong, im saying that i have no problem with homosexuals, but i seriously doubt that i can manage to be friends with a transvestite

What if one day your close friend took you to the side and revealed to you their big secret about being a transvestite? Could you still be friends, because you've known this person for so long? Or would you be mad that they lied to you all this time?

Anyways, my personal experience, I only know two people who are gay, and they only told me months after I became friends with them, and I was fine with it. But yeah, that's how it relates . .

mad... anyway id probably notice. Im sharp in deduction and psychology - comes naturally... i know when a person i lying, etc. im really good at making a person see the truth (usually of his feelings)

but if that happened... i would be disgusted.

But, to tell you the truth, i dont really have close close friends (from childhood); comes from being shy, unsociable, and moving around too much

Capn: what problems are you speaking of?
The problems I am speaking of are:
- when gay couples marry, they usually adopt a child. but from surveys and stats, gay marriages cause a lot of conflicts and arguments because the mother/father role doesn't balance out. Because of this, the child ends up being neglected and forgotten.
- and gay marriages have an extremely high chance of divorce, increasing the percentage of divorces in the world.
- as i said before about the mother/father roles...it's extremely difficult for homosexuals to have a committed relationship because they are of the same gender. I believe that the opposite sex balances out your personality and such.

Yeah... Sorry if that's too confusing or if it's offending anyone. but i warned you guys!

Originally posted by Capn@Jan 5 2005, 12:43 AM
The problems I am speaking of are:
- when gay couples marry, they usually adopt a child. but from surveys and stats, gay marriages cause a lot of conflicts and arguments because the mother/father role doesn't balance out. Because of this, the child ends up being neglected and forgotten.
- and gay marriages have an extremely high chance of divorce, increasing the percentage of divorces in the world.
- as i said before about the mother/father roles...it's extremely difficult for homosexuals to have a committed relationship because they are of the same gender. I believe that the opposite sex balances out your personality and such.

Yeah... Sorry if that's too confusing or if it's offending anyone. but i warned you guys!
1) stereotypical. gay couples do not have more conflicts and arguments than your average couple.
2) what, so it'd be 11% instead of the current 10%? besides, what's wrong with divorce? does it make the world worse?
3) "extremely difficult for homosexuals to have a committed relationship because they are of the same gender"? where do you get that from? many homosexuals are more committed to their relationships because it's harder to find other homosexuals than one's current partner, whereas adultery is much easier in heterosexual relationships.

all in all, the problems you mentioned all occur in heterosexual relationships anyways, and there's no proof that homosexual relations are more prone to them.

Originally posted by Capn@Jan 4 2005, 05:43 PM
The problems I am speaking of are:
- when gay couples marry, they usually adopt a child. but from surveys and stats, gay marriages cause a lot of conflicts and arguments because the mother/father role doesn't balance out. Because of this, the child ends up being neglected and forgotten.
- and gay marriages have an extremely high chance of divorce, increasing the percentage of divorces in the world.
- as i said before about the mother/father roles...it's extremely difficult for homosexuals to have a committed relationship because they are of the same gender. I believe that the opposite sex balances out your personality and such.

Yeah... Sorry if that's too confusing or if it's offending anyone. but i warned you guys!
hmm, I'd like to see facts to back those claims up...

A few of those facts are assumptions like the need of the mother and father role.

It has been proven to apply in single parent families, but no real and repeatable research has been done on it

homosexuality?? hmm.. im not really for it.. and im not really against it... like most of you.. i dont mind them.. they are just normal people like you and i.. people have diffrent tastes.. thats what makes us unique...
so if i had a gay friend i wouldn mind.. itll b all the same.. except that they mite talk about their bf/gf and things they did.. which mite confuse me a bit.. LoL XD

but overall.. i hav nothing against them... who are we to judge each other?? arent we all the same?? human...

but if i found out that one of me friends was gay.. after all this time... i would be a bit pissed for a few days.. then i would forgive and understand... and all would go well again...

the only thing i dont get... transvestite.. and all the other gay people who act like girls (im talkin about male gay people) why would u wanna act like a female for?? dont gay people like men?? so why act like a girl?? coz wouldn that mean that a gay guy is liking a girl?? (girl as in a gay guy acting like a girl)
i dunno.. im just a bit confused... i understand the gay people who act like their gender.. its jus the people who act like the opposite gender that confuses me..

i wanna ask somthin about lesbians.. but it goes too deep and mite get visual.. :bleh: im just curious is all...


but anywayz.. my point was.. if your gay and proud of it, then good for you...

someone(gay) once told me that the campness is for them to deffine themselves, others beleive it is an expresstion of the femanin part of them which is what makes them gay.

Most homosexuals beleive it follows a genetic reason, beleiveing it is the female thinking paterns in a male mind.

Originally posted by shui_hu@Jan 5 2005, 10:11 AM
the only thing i dont get... transvestite.. and all the other gay people who act like girls (im talkin about male gay people) why would u wanna act like a female for?? dont gay people like men?? so why act like a girl?? coz wouldn that mean that a gay guy is liking a girl?? (girl as in a gay guy acting like a girl)
i dunno.. im just a bit confused... i understand the gay people who act like their gender.. its jus the people who act like the opposite gender that confuses me..
transvestites aren't necessarily gay. they just want to let their inner girl out :P

really, haven't any of you contemplated "if i was the opposite gender..."?

well i thought about what it must feel like to be a girl, tried to compare them, etc.

i think divorces do mess up the world. All the cases where the mother wants a divorce, gets it and takes care of the child. The father is only allolwed to see his son once a week, the boy ends up without a proper father... or the mother gets married again and he ends up with a stepdad <.<

really, haven&#39;t any of you contemplated "if i was the opposite gender..."?


erhh.. nope.. should i have?? the only closest thing i have ever thought.. was how more advantages and disadvantages they have... but never really thought if i was a girl...
i mite somtimes think about how lucky girls are because they got us men around :bleh: :heh: XD
but thats about all...

and yeah... i think divorces do mess up the world a bit too... as Alone said.. when they seperate they tend to have another fight on who gets the kid.. and then ussualy the mother gets it.. and then the father can only see the kid once a week.. its really sad i think...
me aunty and uncle just divorced a few months back.. and at those family dinner gatherings.. well we cant have those any more.. we hafta have 2 seperate ones.. because one side of the family cant stand the other side because of different opinions on the divorce...
anywayz.. getting off topic here...

what do you people think about gay christians?? like the pope and stuff being gay... do u think its wrong??

well.... lol, the pope must feel like he&#39;s in heaven. Imagine yourself being the boss in a womens monastery, and you know how he must feel, lol

let me pick my words very carefully: it depends on the pope - if he&#39;s a smooth individual who manages to takes advantage of his post, then yes. Otherwise, no.

hmmm..well i actually have nothing against Homosexuality...
But people who are gay sometimes scare me like this one thime a girl told me she was a les and asked me if I had a problem with that.
I said no I she just went on and on about being les...
and doing "IT" with her girlfriend...
She was the first homo I met so ever since then I&#39;m kinda scarded to ask

are u gay?
Because then im scared this whole upraor will happen again...X_X

^ i agree

but it could be that at that point they are confused and it is thier way of working out their sexuality

attention,,, why do people seek it?

For once, I agree with Sinbios. Gay people are gay, whatever. Straight people are straight. I don&#39; t have a problem with someones sexual preference, until they start using it for attention grabbing. Those sort of people (gay attention whores, not all gay people) might as well just put a big sign on their back that says "I&#39;M GAY. LOOK AT ME. PLEASE&#33;&#33;"

Uhh..yeah.

They might mean &#39;Happy&#39;.

i find small amounts of blood sexy...

>>

n the reason that gay ppl we noe tend to show it off is probly because we don&#39;t realize the ones that don&#39;t show it off r gay......

I think that a person&#39;s sexual preferance is their own business, and it does not change who they are as a person. That&#39;s my take on it.

Originally posted by LingXiaoyu@Jan 11 2005, 12:08 AM
n the reason that gay ppl we noe tend to show it off is probly because we don&#39;t realize the ones that don&#39;t show it off r gay......
What? Please, reiterate what you said, but in plain English. That sentence might make sense to some people, but I have no idea what the hell you&#39;re talking about.

kthxbai.

I&#39;m with Harv, I have no idea what your saying due to horrible grammar.

Ling is saying that maybe the gay people who show off being gay do so in order to be easily identified as gay and not be considered straight. Basically they act it so people aren&#39;t confused about what they are. I don&#39;t necessarily agree with people acting in a stereotypically gay manner but there are reasons and some people are just naturally flamboyant.

@Sinbios, you may not flaunt the fact that you&#39;re straight but there are plenty of people that essentially do (girls that dress and act excessively promiscuously, macho pig males).

Originally posted by Harv@Jan 11 2005, 01:11 PM
What? Please, reiterate what you said, but in plain English. That sentence might make sense to some people, but I have no idea what the hell you&#39;re talking about.

kthxbai.
ppl we know whom are gay = ppl that are vocal about their homosexuality

ppl whom are gay, but are not vocal about it = ppl whom we assume as straight

that is why it might appear that every gay person we know is out spoken about their homosexuality...

Ling, proper English please. It&#39;s still know for example.

did i make simbos mad?

Originally posted by Eternal@Jan 12 2005, 01:06 AM
did i make simbos mad?
you did by spelling my name wrong in two places :rolleyes:

but otherwise, no, i was merely ranting at people who keep going on about their sexuality to garner attention.

Just like you try to make everyone look bad so you&#39;ll get attention?

kinda like ppl bitching about correct english for attention....

lets stop changing the subject...

homosexuals don&#39;t rant, u just pay attention to those who do&#33;

Why do people care if someone is homersexual? It doesn&#39;t affect them in the slightest, does it? I personally don&#39;t think its a subject thats really worth discussing. Its here, its always been here so why the big deal now? Maybe I&#39;m just too liberal that nothing that seems out of the ordinary has a major impact on me or maybe i&#39;m just that damn ignorant of anything. I don&#39;t know. So.. who cares and why?

Edit: Apologies for &#39;homersexual&#39;. I&#39;ve been influenced by the Simpsons to much.

Homersexual sounds scary X_X

I have a friend who&#39;s gay, and he&#39;s really nice. After people found out some people starting ignoring him, but to me he&#39;s just Sam, nothing can ever change that, especially not his sexual preferences.

I believe homosexuels have a right to choose their own sexual preference. What right do we have to say what a homosexual can or cannot do? If being homosexual makes them happy then they should be able to do that. I have no clue why some people are so against allowing homosexuality.

kinda stupid to make homosexuality illegal: what next, will liking girls be illegal?

i was wondering... most males when seeing a beautiful girls would think " Wow Beautiful, hot, etc.". But if they see a guy who looks better than them they will probably think "nothing special, nice muscles, but what the hell he&#39;s no different than me only a bit stronger", Right?

now lets view this from the gay perspective: On seeing a &#39;pretty&#39; guy, he will probably think "Wow beautiful/hot etc." cause he&#39;s gay. But what does he think when he see&#39;s a pretty lady? He can hardly say "nothing special" or "shes no different than me"... so he will have no choice but to consider the female body also beautiful -> so i every gay person can easily become a bi

Hmm, I&#39;d disagree with that - A man exclusively attracted to other men doesn&#39;t necessarily have to be attracted to women, just as a man exclusively attracted to women doesn&#39;t necessarily have to be attracted to other men. It&#39;d be like saying a man who enjoys eating mushrooms has no choice but to enjoy eating prawns as well, whereas a man who enjoys eating prawns is under no obligation to enjoy eating mushrooms. Everyone likes different things when it comes to food, drink, clothes, music and sexual partners. Ultimately it&#39;s just a matter of personal taste. :)

As for the whole attention-seeking thing... Some gay/bisexual people flaunt their sexuality but there are just as many straight people out there making a big thing out of their job, their lifestyle, their political beliefs, their religious convictions, their wealth, etc. If a person is an attention-seeker it relates to their personality, not their sexuality. The fact that they may be gay, straight or bisexual is largely irrelevant - Their sexual preference is just one of the things they can use to make themselves stand out from the crowd. One of the biggest attention-seekers I know is supposedly a devout Catholic who took a vow of celibacy. He mentions it whenever and wherever he possibly can, as if it somehow makes him more special than everyone else. <_<

The problem lies in the logic: I know/have been told about/have read about several bisexuals who are blatant attention-seekers; therefore practically all bisexuals must be blatant attention-seekers.

Although it may be true in some cases (one of my ex-girlfriends is a perfect example) that sort of stereotypical logic makes no more sense when applied to all bisexuals than it does when applied to entire races or entire genders.

Cheers,

Zeus B)

Originally posted by Zeus@Jan 13 2005, 03:58 PM
As for the whole attention-seeking thing... Some gay/bisexual people flaunt their sexuality but there are just as many straight people out there making a big thing out of their job, their lifestyle, their political beliefs, their religious convictions, their wealth, etc. If a person is an attention-seeker it relates to their personality, not their sexuality. The fact that they may be gay, straight or bisexual is largely irrelevant - Their sexual preference is just one of the things they can use to make themselves stand out from the crowd. One of the biggest attention-seekers I know is supposedly a devout Catholic who took a vow of celibacy. He mentions it whenever and wherever he possibly can, as if it somehow makes him more special than everyone else. <_<

The problem lies in the logic: I know/have been told about/have read about several bisexuals who are blatant attention-seekers; therefore practically all bisexuals must be blatant attention-seekers.

...and those people that flaunt other things are attention seekers as well. read my post; i did not say that all bi/homosexual people are attention seekers, i said those that flaunt their sexuality are.

Originally posted by Alone@Jan 13 2005, 10:01 AM
kinda stupid to make homosexuality illegal: what next, will liking girls be illegal?

i was wondering... most males when seeing a beautiful girls would think " Wow Beautiful, hot, etc.". But if they see a guy who looks better than them they will probably think "nothing special, nice muscles, but what the hell he&#39;s no different than me only a bit stronger", Right?

now lets view this from the gay perspective: On seeing a &#39;pretty&#39; guy, he will probably think "Wow beautiful/hot etc." cause he&#39;s gay. But what does he think when he see&#39;s a pretty lady? He can hardly say "nothing special" or "shes no different than me"... so he will have no choice but to consider the female body also beautiful -> so i every gay person can easily become a bi
hardly..

the fact that someone isn&#39;t similar to you has no correlation with liking them or not...

mostly we are attract to ppl who we are similar to..

^ different people sya different things:

there are two points of view:

we are attracted to opposites

we are attracted to likes

you can see both views being stated in books, and every author pronounces that it is completely true ^_^ I still cant figure out which one is right

Originally posted by Sinbios Zefiris Ark+Jan 14 2005, 07:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Sinbios Zefiris Ark &#064; Jan 14 2005, 07:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>...and those people that flaunt other things are attention seekers as well. read my post; i did not say that all bi/homosexual people are attention seekers, i said those that flaunt their sexuality are.[/b]
*looks at your original post*


Originally posted by Sinbios Zefiris Ark@Jan 10 2005, 01:39 PM
attention whore warning, attention whore warning&#33;

all these people who claim they&#39;re into black magicks, are bi, or have blood fetishes, etc, are usually just whoring for attention.

LOOK AT ME I&#39;M A GAY WICCAN AND WORSHIP THE DEVIL&#33;
That post seems pretty unambiguous - Anyone &#39;claiming&#39; they are bisexual has a better than average chance of being an attention whore. I know you qualified your remarks in later posts but even if you read it as "all these people who claim they&#39;re gay/bisexual and flaunt their sexuality are usually attention whores" I still disagree. Is it only acceptable for people to be gay/bisexual if they never tell a soul about it?

Why shouldn&#39;t people be proud of the fact that they&#39;re gay? If they&#39;re not self-conscious about their sexuality then why should straight people feel self-conscious about it? Why should they feel under any obligation to hide their sexual preferences? Surely homosexuality isn&#39;t a taboo subject nowadays. (Evidenced by the existence of this thread.)

<!--QuoteBegin-Sinbios Zefiris Ark@Jan 11 2005, 09:50 AM
it usually is when they flaunt it around like a badge and don&#39;t stop talking about it. i don&#39;t go around telling everybody i&#39;m straight, do i?[/quote]
Straight people haven&#39;t spent most of recorded history being persecuted, exiled, ostracised, jailed and even killed because of their sexual preferences. Is it any wonder some gay people feel the need to draw a lot of attention to their sexuality? Contemporary society is one of the few societies that actually permits them to do so.

Cheers,

Zeus B)

Originally posted by Zeus@Jan 14 2005, 08:46 PM
Is it only acceptable for people to be gay/bisexual if they never tell a soul about it?

Straight people haven&#39;t spent most of recorded history being persecuted, exiled, ostracised, jailed and even killed because of their sexual preferences. Is it any wonder some gay people feel the need to draw a lot of attention to their sexuality? Contemporary society is one of the few societies that actually permits them to do so.
if you read back, you&#39;ll find that i was replying to a comment about someone who doesn&#39;t stop talking about being a lesbian. sure, tell people, doesn&#39;t mean she has to go on and on about it. this is in fact aimed at a specific type, and i know somebody who is as such very well; almost every sentence she utters refer to her being lesbian, goth, wiccan, or having a blood/knife fetish. it annoys me. i&#39;m not aiming my comments against homosexuals who are proud of their sexuality; i&#39;m replying to a specific example.

and btw, homosexuality was fine till those danged christians came along ^_^
caesar was in fact, on the receiving end.

Homosexuality is wrong.

Why? Because it&#39;s just not the way humans are meant to be. Based soley on science, two humans of the same sex are not supposed to be in a relationship with each other. So, if science says it&#39;s wrong, why must I have to accept it?

Beastiality is wrong. It&#39;s a human loving a beast. Is it illegal? Yes. Is it scientifically correct? No.

Necrophila is wrong. It&#39;s a living human loving a dead human. Is it illegal? In some states. Is it scientifically correct? No.

So why is it, that homosexuality is allowed to thrive if the aforementioned is not. You could use the age-old clique argument that "what does it have to do with you?" But it just doesn&#39;t work in this context. You homosexuals probably think at least one of the aforementioned is wrong, but then, what does it have to do with you? It&#39;s not you living those lives. It&#39;s not their fault that their sexual preferences are such. But society looks down upon it, and for good reason. Because it&#39;s not right.

Homosexuality should not be allowed. Humans were not meant to be like that. If your camera just makes noise instead of taking pictures, you don&#39;t accept it like that. If your dog pees indoors instead of outside, you don&#39;t accept it like that. If your child needs surgery because he has a tumour, you don&#39;t accept it like that. If a man loves a man, instead of a woman, you can&#39;t accept it like that.

Call me close-minded, but isn&#39;t it close-minded to expect me to accept homosexuals?

Originally posted by Sinbios Zefiris Ark@Jan 15 2005, 07:03 AM
if you read back, you&#39;ll find that i was replying to a comment about someone who doesn&#39;t stop talking about being a lesbian. sure, tell people, doesn&#39;t mean she has to go on and on about it. this is in fact aimed at a specific type, and i know somebody who is as such very well; almost every sentence she utters refer to her being lesbian, goth, wiccan, or having a blood/knife fetish. it annoys me. i&#39;m not aiming my comments against homosexuals who are proud of their sexuality; i&#39;m replying to a specific example.

and btw, homosexuality was fine till those danged christians came along ^_^
caesar was in fact, on the receiving end.
I agree there are people out there who harp on and on about their sexuality to the point where it becomes unnecessary and irritating - But again, that&#39;s due to their personality, not their sexuality. The use of the words "all these people" in your original post made it sound like a generalisation referring to all bisexuals, not a response to a specific example, but fair enough. :)

Eleven of the twelve Caesars discussed by Suetonius were actually accused of homosexuality - Only dear old Claudius managed to escape rumours that he had sexual relations with men. Even back then it was seen as something that had negative connotations and was a hot topic for gossips of the time.

DragonX2, I treat your post with the complete and utter contempt it deserves. What you&#39;ve written essentially boils down to "homosexuality is wrong because homosexuality is wrong" - A surmise based around ridiculously outdated notions such as the only reason consenting adults have sex is to have children.

Science does not tell us that homosexuality is wrong; neither does nature. I suggest you do a little research on the prevalence of homosexuality in the animal kingdom (the sexual activities of bonobo apes are a good place to start) in the hope that it will make you a little less close-minded.

Cheers,

Zeus B)

Originally posted by DragonX2@Jan 14 2005, 11:12 PM
Homosexuality is wrong.

Why? Because it&#39;s just not the way humans are meant to be. Based soley on science, two humans of the same sex are not supposed to be in a relationship with each other. So, if science says it&#39;s wrong, why must I have to accept it?

Beastiality is wrong. It&#39;s a human loving a beast. Is it illegal? Yes. Is it scientifically correct? No.

Necrophila is wrong. It&#39;s a living human loving a dead human. Is it illegal? In some states. Is it scientifically correct? No.

So why is it, that homosexuality is allowed to thrive if the aforementioned is not. You could use the age-old clique argument that "what does it have to do with you?" But it just doesn&#39;t work in this context. You homosexuals probably think at least one of the aforementioned is wrong, but then, what does it have to do with you? It&#39;s not you living those lives. It&#39;s not their fault that their sexual preferences are such. But society looks down upon it, and for good reason. Because it&#39;s not right.

Homosexuality should not be allowed. Humans were not meant to be like that. If your camera just makes noise instead of taking pictures, you don&#39;t accept it like that. If your dog pees indoors instead of outside, you don&#39;t accept it like that. If your child needs surgery because he has a tumour, you don&#39;t accept it like that. If a man loves a man, instead of a woman, you can&#39;t accept it like that.

Call me close-minded, but isn&#39;t it close-minded to expect me to accept homosexuals?
With beastiality and necrophila you can use the argument that the other (the animal or the dead person) can&#39;t voice their opinions about the "relationship". An animal can&#39;t say that they don&#39;t like someone, same for a stiff. That&#39;s one huge difference. Love has to come from both sides and if you can&#39;t prove that love indeed comes from two sides it&#39;s not love.


If your dog pees indoors instead of outside
Actually, nature doesn&#39;t tell dogs to pee outside so if you have to tell your dog to pee outside you tell it to go against it&#39;s nature, so in that way homosexuality should be okay even though it goes against nature.


If your child needs surgery because he has a tumour, you don&#39;t accept it like that.
Again, an example of where humans go against nature.


If a man loves a man, instead of a woman, you can&#39;t accept it like that.
Yes I can, and everybody could if they just opened their eyes.

And besides, why is it wrong? Humans have roads, humans have medicine, humans have cars and we launch ourselves into space. Is that natural? Humans aren&#39;t meant to fly, yet we do. If homosexuals can&#39;t be accepted then flying using an aeroplane shouldn&#39;t be accepted either.

I don&#39;t understand why people judge Homosexuals just because of the way they want to live their life.....

This topic always hits close to him. My brother is gay.

I don&#39;t think it&#39;s wrong. And if you want to base it on "science", I have an interesting fact for you. When comparing the brains of a homosexual to a heterosexual, the structures are different. Homosexuality is something that is BUILT into you. It&#39;s how you were made. And it isn&#39;t some sort of mutation. It&#39;s how God made them. It&#39;s how they were intended to be.






In a world filled with hate, why must we discrimante against those who love?

Science does not tell us that homosexuality is wrong; neither does nature. I suggest you do a little research on the prevalence of homosexuality in the animal kingdom (the sexual activities of bonobo apes are a good place to start) in the hope that it will make you a little less close-minded.

Science doesn&#39;t tell me that homosexuality is wrong? :blink: So, I guess the fact that women go through the menstrual cycle every month, and the fact that the penis produces sperm is all for show, right? So does that mean that the male penis producing sperm couldn&#39;t of been for the ferilization of the the eggs that reside in a female vagina?Man, if that was so, then I guess scientifcally, and logically, men and women weren&#39;t meant to be together after all.

As for homosexual animals. Let us look at dogs, one of the most intelligent animals. Dogs become aroused very easily. Why else would they hump everything from a lamp to a leg? It&#39;s becasue they can&#39;t tell the difference. As for apes and dolphins. Are they meant to be doing that? Are two male apes meant to be together? No, because males are designed to have sexual relations with females. It&#39;s essentially making sure your species survives through reproduction.


I don&#39;t think it&#39;s wrong. And if you want to base it on "science", I have an interesting fact for you. When comparing the brains of a homosexual to a heterosexual, the structures are different. Homosexuality is something that is BUILT into you. It&#39;s how you were made. And it isn&#39;t some sort of mutation. It&#39;s how God made them. It&#39;s how they were intended to be.

Proof?

Regardless of proof, what do you mean by structures? Was it the average size of the homosexual brain? The number of glial cells sitting between the neutrons? The structure of a homosexual brain resembles a walnut, while the homosexual one resembles a rainbow? Different pathwaysDendrites located in different places? A surplus in neurons?

Well, if you SAY that the structure of a homosexual brain is different from the norm, then doesn&#39;t that mean it&#39;s a mutation? Looks like you&#39;re contradictin yourself there. There are many mutations in the brain. Like having a surplus of neuron cells in the brain. I guess having a surplus of neuron cells would change the structure of the brain. However, did you know, having so many neurons, would simply retard alot of the brain&#39;s functions? The brain structure of a mentally retarded human is different of that of a heterosexual as well. I guess God intended for it to be like that. It couldn&#39;t of been a mutation.


With beastiality and necrophila you can use the argument that the other (the animal or the dead person) can&#39;t voice their opinions about the "relationship". An animal can&#39;t say that they don&#39;t like someone, same for a stiff. That&#39;s one huge difference. Love has to come from both sides and if you can&#39;t prove that love indeed comes from two sides it&#39;s not love.

Well, if homosexuality is accepted, why isn&#39;t pedophilia? Pedophilia was accepted 1000 years ago, and it&#39;s still accepted in some countries today, especially muslim ones, where muslim law says the age of 12 is good for marriage. In a pedophile relationship, can you say that love doesn&#39;t come from both sides?

Biologically, pedophilia is correct, and homosexuality is wrong. But people see homosexuality as acceptable, and pedophilia as not. Why is that? Even if both parties agree to it?


Actually, nature doesn&#39;t tell dogs to pee outside so if you have to tell your dog to pee outside you tell it to go against it&#39;s nature, so in that way homosexuality should be okay even though it goes against nature.

If your child needs surgery because he has a tumour, you don&#39;t accept it like that.

You missed the point of all the examples. These are all examples of things that isn&#39;t "supposed to be." You know, a metaphor. Homosexuality isn&#39;t supposed to be, so you shouldn&#39;t accept it. And when you counter my examples, you should counter them all.


Yes I can, and everybody could if they just opened their eyes.

If an older man loves a child, and a child loves an older man, I can accept it. Can you?


And besides, why is it wrong? Humans have roads, humans have medicine, humans have cars and we launch ourselves into space. Is that natural? Humans aren&#39;t meant to fly, yet we do. If homosexuals can&#39;t be accepted then flying using an aeroplane shouldn&#39;t be accepted either.

Roads, medicine, cars, flying, and space exploration. These are all the products of our intelligence, which is our primary tools for survival. Man invented tools to help man survive. Roads, medicine, cars, flying, and space exploration, are all products of our intelligence, meant to enrich the lives of mankind.

My friend is gay but i think he is so nice I mean he cant even hurt a fly i&#39;d bet he&#39;d bring it in for surgury&#33;Hes so sweet...and nice but lonrly sprirt this world is full of hate we must overlook that but we musnt try to hard or we might find lies so watch your back...

Originally posted by DragonX2+Jan 15 2005, 02:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DragonX2 &#064; Jan 15 2005, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Science doesn&#39;t tell me that homosexuality is wrong? :blink: So, I guess the fact that women go through the menstrual cycle every month, and the fact that the penis produces sperm is all for show, right? So does that mean that the male penis producing sperm couldn&#39;t of been for the ferilization of the the eggs that reside in a female vagina?Man, if that was so, then I guess scientifcally, and logically, men and women weren&#39;t meant to be together after all.

As for homosexual animals. Let us look at dogs, one of the most intelligent animals. Dogs become aroused very easily. Why else would they hump everything from a lamp to a leg? It&#39;s becasue they can&#39;t tell the difference. As for apes and dolphins. Are they meant to be doing that? Are two male apes meant to be together? No, because males are designed to have sexual relations with females. It&#39;s essentially making sure your species survives through reproduction.[/b]
In my previous post I remarked:


Originally posted by Zeus@Jan 15 2005, 09:16 AM
What you&#39;ve written essentially boils down to "homosexuality is wrong because homosexuality is wrong" - A surmise based around ridiculously outdated notions such as the only reason consenting adults have sex is to have children.
Gay people don&#39;t have sex to reproduce the species; they have sex because they enjoy it. I think you&#39;ll find the vast majority of heterosexual sex occurs for precisely the same reason. People tend not to think about the propagation of the species and the strict duty of the sperm to fertilise the ovum when they are having sex - Oddly enough, their minds are usually focused on other matters. Furthermore, you don&#39;t even need a man and a woman to copulate in order to have children nowadays. Thanks to the wonders of science we have things like IVF treatment. Fertilisation can and does take place outside the bedchamber. Thus your rather simplistic argument that:

Homosexuality = Lack of people having children = OMG, this is so wrong.

Is about as substantial as an iceberg in the tropics.

I find it ironic that you demand proof from other people then you go and make statements like "science says it&#39;s wrong" and "homosexuality isn&#39;t supposed to be, so you shouldn&#39;t accept it". Why isn&#39;t it supposed to be, O Mighty Überscientist? If it is physically possible for two men or two women to pleasure each other then why is it wrong? Who defines what is supposed to be and what isn&#39;t supposed to be?

I can&#39;t really address your claim that men are biologically designed only to have sex with women and vice-versa without going into explicit detail. However, I will say this - Plenty of gay couples find ways to have sex with each other that are presumably every bit as satisfying as the ways in which heterosexual couples have sex. Use your imagination.

Incidentally, your comparison between homosexuality and paedophilia is as ridiculous as your prior comparisons between homosexuality, beastiality and necrophilia. The key issue is that of consent - A dog, a dead body and a child are legally incapable of consenting to sexual relations. Two gay adults are perfectly capable of consenting to sex with each other because they fully understand the implications of the sexual act. A child does not fully understand the implications of the sexual act. QED.

<!--QuoteBegin-DragonX2@Jan 15 2005, 02:09 PM
Roads, medicine, cars, flying, and space exploration. These are all the products of our intelligence, which is our primary tools for survival. Man invented tools to help man survive. Roads, medicine, cars, flying, and space exploration, are all products of our intelligence, meant to enrich the lives of mankind.[/quote]
Gay people don&#39;t have sex to enrich their lives? I suppose science tells you that too?

Cheers,

Zeus B)

Well, if homosexuality is accepted, why isn&#39;t pedophilia? Pedophilia was accepted 1000 years ago, and it&#39;s still accepted in some countries today, especially muslim ones, where muslim law says the age of 12 is good for marriage. In a pedophile relationship, can you say that love doesn&#39;t come from both sides?

Biologically, pedophilia is correct, and homosexuality is wrong. But people see homosexuality as acceptable, and pedophilia as not. Why is that? Even if both parties agree to it?

The reason why paedophilia isn&#39;t allowed is to protect young children. Biologically it&#39;s possible for them to get children and stuff - but the human race changes and mentally children take a longer time to develop than 1000 years ago. During the middle ages children were treated like adults in Europe aswell, but nowadays you may consider yourself lucky if you&#39;re allowed to go out when you&#39;re 16 or even 18. And they are right (although some people overdo it), children need to be protected from big mistakes. A 12 year old doesn&#39;t know what love is, how can they love an adult then? The only thing 12 year olds do is hold hands with one person for a week, and then do the same with another person the next week. Well, speaking about girls, guys would probably freak out from the idea and run to the playground to play football. Until they are about 18 - 20 people go through puberty, and after that their mind is pretty much adult - of course they don&#39;t have as much life experience as a 40-year old geezer but they can tell what they want without wanting something else the next week. It&#39;s just wrong for a 40 year old guy to marry a 12 year old girl because there&#39;s just too much difference in the ways they think - one thinks with the mind of a kid and the other with the mind of an adult. That&#39;s just never going to work in today&#39;s society. Maybe 1000 years ago when kids were treated like adults but that&#39;s not how it works nowadays. Besides, children are soo easy to influence and control that they could be forced into sexual acts they actually don&#39;t want to participate in, bringing up the subject of forced relationships again. That&#39;s why it shouldn&#39;t be allowed.

It&#39;s funny how you keep going on about these "OMG NATURE DOES THIS ~&#33;" stuff, but like I said before, humans always go against nature. In todays society homosexuality might just be an example of that, humans going against the law nature put on them. And like I said, flying an aeroplane is exactly the same thing.


Roads, medicine, cars, flying, and space exploration. These are all the products of our intelligence, which is our primary tools for survival. Man invented tools to help man survive. Roads, medicine, cars, flying, and space exploration, are all products of our intelligence, meant to enrich the lives of mankind.

How about televisions? We don&#39;t need those to survive do we? If gays can&#39;t have relationships you can&#39;t watch television, listen to the radio, or any form of music - no, you&#39;re not allowed to have any form of amusement. after all - you don&#39;t need it to survive do you? What are you still doing here? You&#39;re not allowed to use the internet for fun&#33;

I think people need to stop judging. They have the right to make their own decision of what they do with thier bodies, it is not yours. It is no one&#39;s decision but their own. If you dont agree with it, dislike the action, not the person. Just because a person is gay does not mean they are a bad person. I&#39;ve had friends who were gay, and they were really sweet. They were great people. These people who are so obsessed with "homosexiality is wrong", you should focus on what&#39;s wrong in YOUR life and what YOU can control.

I have not the slightest idea how the homosexual&#39;s mind works, so I have no right to judge them.

Meh. Live and let live. I don&#39;t give a damn how others are, as long as I don&#39;t get hurt. And no homosexual has ever hurt me, so there.

Discussions like this are all the same; they never get anywhere.

One word: coexistence.

Originally posted by DragonX2@Jan 15 2005, 12:09 PM
and the fact that the penis produces sperm is all for show, right? So does that mean that the male penis producing sperm couldn&#39;t of been for the ferilization of the the eggs that reside in a female vagina?
hmm...here&#39;s some biology for Mr Top Scientist: it&#39;s not the penis that produces sperm.
;)


anyway, i will repeat what stefan said, which happens to be my pet phrase for this topic. Live and let live~

Regards,
Syaoran

Originally posted by Syaoran@Jan 15 2005, 02:41 PM
hmm...here&#39;s some biology for Mr Top Scientist: it&#39;s not the penis that produces sperm.
;)
And to add to that, the egg doesn&#39;t reside within the vagina :shifty:

"In my job... l have another motto. Its &#39;Live and Let Die&#39;." - Ian Fleming

As long as im alowed to be a heterosexual, The World can do what it damn pleases...

What would you say if your girlfriend turned gay, then? Its only ever ok as long as it doesn&#39;t affect us, isn&#39;t it? I reckon most people grow hostile towards them because they&#39;be been (or someone related/ close to have also been) hurt by one in the past. its not really a good or just reason. But hey, we&#39;re shallow and selfish that way.

I&#39;m neutral in this motion. As long as I don&#39;t get affected all is cool. I&#39;m selfish like that.

What does King Zeus have to say (I like his way of thinking)?

"Researchers have found a new anatomical difference in the brain structure of homosexual men and heterosexual men, a discovery that supports a theory that sexual orientation may be set by nature."

There&#39;s your science for you
http://www.genuinejeff.com/researchdata.htm


I guess you can&#39;t blame the ignorant when they lack a source of information. I&#39;m sorry, but I&#39;m just very sensitive about this.

Originally posted by Zach@Jan 16 2005, 02:26 AM
What would you say if your girlfriend turned gay, then? Its only ever ok as long as it doesn&#39;t affect us, isn&#39;t it? I reckon most people grow hostile towards them because they&#39;be been (or someone related/ close to have also been) hurt by one in the past. its not really a good or just reason. But hey, we&#39;re shallow and selfish that way.

I&#39;m neutral in this motion. As long as I don&#39;t get affected all is cool. I&#39;m selfish like that.

What does King Zeus have to say (I like his way of thinking)?
Well, my first girlfriend decided she was a lesbian after we&#39;d been going out for eight months. Two days after we split up she phoned me up and proceeded to tell me in explicit detail exactly what she wanted to do with assorted women. This continued for nearly six months afterwards - She would ring me up every night to boast about her various sexual exploits. It does really weird things to your head when someone you still love tells you things like that. X_X

Eventually I managed to escape from her and I started going out with an Irish lass. Things were fine for four months; at her suggestion I made preparations for a trip to Ireland (from Australia) to spend some time with her. Then one month before the flight (with my non-refundable plane tickets paid for and my itinerary completely worked out) she suddenly decided she was gay and told me not to bother. A few days later she ran off with one of my good female friends, who was also a lesbian, and the pair of them started up a relationship.

So if anyone ever had a reason to be prejudiced against gay people it would be me - However I know plenty of gay people who are extremely nice so I don&#39;t let a couple of bad experiences colour my judgement of gay people in general. :)

Cheers,

Zeus B)

And to add to that, the egg doesn&#39;t reside within the vagina


hmm...here&#39;s some biology for Mr Top Scientist: it&#39;s not the penis that produces sperm.

ewwwww......
GROSS MUCH&#33;

Eternal: I was saying that I was the one being sarcastic. Please read my comments more carefully in future. Okay, thanks.

Sashiro: Ok, ignore the "hot" part. As long as both of the lesbians look female, then fine, but when one of them looks male, what&#39;s the point? There are plently of men out there with personalities that are right for those women, with the added bonus of a penis for sexual pleasure. Whether they want someone tough and stud-like (for those lesbians who tend to like rough sports-hockey, basketball, football etc, and such), or someone not so tough, both types can be found in the male population.

It&#39;s the same for two gay guys. If one of them actually looks like a woman (not so common, although most gay guys tend to be very camp and feminine), then what is the point of that relationship? Again, you could say that personality plays a big part, but you can find those qualities in many women as well.

Now that I&#39;ve justified my points, please read what I say carefully before replying to me, calling me an idiot or some such. If you have any questions or misunderstandings as to what I&#39;ve said, ask them calmly, without resorting to name calling or some other childish behaviour. Oh, and don&#39;t purposely misinterpret what I say. Thanks.

Don&#39;t be an idiot. No two people are the same personality-wise. I&#39;m not even gay, and I understand. Why are you so homophobic? Just because society says "Women must date men, men must date women", it doesn&#39;t mean it&#39;s law. It&#39;s their right to do what they want, it&#39;s their lives. Stop judging them, you aren&#39;t anywhere close to perfect. Maybe you should put more time on realizing your flaws before trying to point out other people&#39;s "flaws".

I don&#39;t see why you say that they have to look female. What the hell does looks have to do with it? Just to make it easier on your eyes or something? Get over it. It&#39;s not your body, your life, or your decision.

Edit: Oh, and you sure did embrace stereotypes.

Originally posted by Harv@Jan 16 2005, 07:04 PM
Eternal: I was saying that I was the one being sarcastic. Please read my comments more carefully in future. Okay, thanks.


grrrrrr....

CHOMP&#33; *bites you*

*runs away*
Muahahahahahahaha&#33;

Eternal: Right.

Sashiro: Statistically, there probably are some people with the same personality. I was stating that you can find the qualities you desire in both sexes. If you were a lesbian, and that&#39;s all you were going for, e.g. you&#39;re not bothered about looks, then why specifically go after male looking women? It makes no sense.

I drew on no stereotypes on what I previously said. I stated that you get butch lesbians, AND feminine lesbians, which is true. I also stated that the majority of gay men are camp and/or feminine. From what I can ascertain (knowing/being-friends-with gay men), this is true. I don&#39;t actually know any non-camp or non-feminine gay men.

Again, I will say again that I don&#39;t care whoever dates whoever, but I fail to see the point in women who date male-looking women.

When you say the majority of gay men are more feminine, what do you mean? That they don&#39;t see who can light their farts on fire or who can lift the most weights?

And statisticly, no, there aren&#39;t two people just alike with all the same likes and dislikes, all the things they do and the way they do them? Doubtful.

I don&#39;t mean that they don&#39;t light their farts on fire, or lift weights (they&#39;re not a straight-man specific past times, anyway). I&#39;m referring to the way they speak (with a more feminine voice), or the way they laugh (giggly) , or the words and phrases they use. For the record, I have never attempted to set my farts on fire, and I rarely lift weights.

The statistics I was reffering to were that they&#39;d like the same movies, music, and other things. There is no way that anyone can be so unique that no one else in the world likes the same things as they do.

Also, I&#39;d like to thank you for realising what I was saying with my other points (I take this assumption on the fact that you did not bring them up in your last post). Now that you realise that I&#39;m not some "fag hater", this discussion might actually get somewhere. Sweet&#33;

The reason I didn&#39;t bring them up is because I&#39;m too lazy -_-
I think you&#39;re an idiot. I also think the things you said were offensive, like "Two hot females are okay". In fact, I consider you to be so stupid, I don&#39;t even want to bother with you. Carry on, judgemental idiot.

Moving along, people..

Harv gets really jerky here....X_X
i dont like that...
*pouts*

Now.. discussions are good but lets keep away from personal attacks and insults shall we? -_-
We all have different views and there&#39;s nothing wrong to express them:
Some of us are opened-minded, some are not. But what we should all do is stand for our views, and accept other people&#39;s opinions without opening flames on them..

I&#39;m no expert on homosexuality here heh, but why date people of the same sex?
It&#39;s probably just personal preferences and as Lovely showed us, brain structure. ^^;
Appearance is just a preference as well; some people wants to date someone of the same sex who looks like the other sex.

Why? It&#39;s their preference.

It&#39;s just kind of weird that I pretty much just started off asking why women who dated butch looking women did so, and then I got bitched at for it.

Anyway, so yeah back on topic, why do you think that happens? To be honest, I think it&#39;s because of some confusion from prior experiences in life. These could be anything from their mothers telling them not to go near guys (they might tell them this to stop them from getting hurt), or because they guys had hurt them in the past, and they sub-conciously decided that they were attracted to the male form, but not male aggression or something, believing that all men were like it.
Or it could be some other reason, which I guess could be discussed.

There, serious post. Agree, disagree, or discuss. Don&#39;t flame it.

Originally posted by Harv@Jan 16 2005, 10:32 PM
Anyway, so yeah back on topic, why do you think that happens? To be honest, I think it&#39;s because of some confusion from prior experiences in life. These could be anything from their mothers telling them not to go near guys (they might tell them this to stop them from getting hurt), or because they guys had hurt them in the past, and they sub-conciously decided that they were attracted to the male form, but not male aggression or something, believing that all men were like it.
Well, that might be true, although I don&#39;t really think so for the majority of people. :heh: If that were 100% true, then I&#39;d be lesbian, lol, since my mum is always paranoid about me being anywhere near boys. I go to an all-girl&#39;s school, pretty much all my real life friends are girls.
And yet I&#39;m not a lesbian ~ In fact, I do have a boyfriend. ^_^

I think it&#39;s just up to preference. Everybody goes through thinking about it some stage in their life, even if it might not be for very long. Some people question about it more than others. There are some who are homosexual, but don&#39;t really realise it themselves since they don&#39;t want to be "strange".

Originally posted by Harv@Jan 17 2005, 08:32 AM
Anyway, so yeah back on topic, why do you think that happens? To be honest, I think it&#39;s because of some confusion from prior experiences in life. These could be anything from their mothers telling them not to go near guys (they might tell them this to stop them from getting hurt), or because they guys had hurt them in the past, and they sub-conciously decided that they were attracted to the male form, but not male aggression or something, believing that all men were like it.
Or it could be some other reason, which I guess could be discussed.
Personally, I wasn&#39;t offended by your remarks, Harv. I paid them the same amount of attention as I did your other pearls of wisdom in this thread, such as the insightful revelation that "all homosexuals are gay". <_<

Why would a lesbian want to go out with a butch-looking woman? The reasons would be different in every single case so it&#39;s pointless trying to generalise. It might be because of prior experiences, it might be because of genetics, it might be because of their childhood, it might be because of their partner&#39;s personality, it might be because they happen to find butch-looking women sexually attractive for no particular reason. A lesbian might be attracted to a butch-looking woman for precisely the same reasons that a man might be attracted to a butch-looking woman.

I could reverse your question and ask you, Harv - If you are wildly attracted to feminine-looking women then what&#39;s to stop you going out with a feminine-looking man? After all, according to your logic they would have the same personality, the same interests and they would also have, to use your own words, the added bonus of a penis for sexual pleasure.

What&#39;s to stop you? The fact that you can&#39;t imagine yourself having sex with a man? Perhaps the same thing is true of lesbians who prefer butch-looking women.

Cheers,

Zeus B)

The reason I&#39;m not attracted to men, feminine or not, is because they have a penis, and because they look male. And I&#39;m not particularly into anal sex, so men are off the menu&#33;

Originally posted by Eternal@Jan 17 2005, 01:43 AM



ewwwww......
GROSS MUCH&#33;
oops...gomen nasai&#33; my bad :heh: just couldn&#39;t resist pointing out the glaring mistake XD

gosh. but looking at the previous post, i really think our choice of language is getting really colourful now =_= shouldn&#39;t we keep stuff less explicit or at least put a warning on the forum thread so that some 14 yr old kid won&#39;t come here and go @_@ ?

Regards,
Syaoran

I love Zeus. :wub: He&#39;s pushing all the right buttons here. :D Only kidding. He&#39;s still a damn fine member though. Where&#39;d I put my handcuffs? :devil:

PS. I love this >> :devil: Oh Cruella&#33;

how can you keep a thread discussing sexual relationships explicit?

personally, i have no problem with gays/lesbians, but to those wh do - a person shoudn&#39;t be judged on their sexual preferences :/ its discrimination, as bad as racism and sexism. a lot of people i know have a problem with homosexuals...but its no big deal to me.
i&#39;m straight, by the way ^_^

okay....off to bed for me now :yawn:

Originally posted by Syaoran@Jan 17 2005, 09:57 AM
oops...gomen nasai&#33; my bad :heh: just couldn&#39;t resist pointing out the glaring mistake XD

gosh. but looking at the previous post, i really think our choice of language is getting really colourful now =_= shouldn&#39;t we keep stuff less explicit or at least put a warning on the forum thread so that some 14 yr old kid won&#39;t come here and go @_@ ?

Regards,
Syaoran
Do you realize that the huge majority of this forum is people between 14 and 18? Why would we put a warning on the topic of homosexuality anyways? I&#39;ve seen elementary kids say really offensive insults that even I have never before heard, let alone many other adults. Please don&#39;t be so naive as to think that 14 years don&#39;t know about this stuff, let alone don&#39;t understand it.

If a person, regardless of their age, wants to reply to this topic, they&#39;ll do just that. Its not going to be like they come here, find out what homosexuality is (it would be sad if they didn&#39;t), and then somehow their minds be tramautized for life over this. Nor will it mean they act more immature. Come to think of it, I&#39;ve seen 12 year olds act more mature then some of the older members in this forum.

Sorry to bitch, but its the most aggrivating thing to me when people act like because they are above a specific age, then that means that the younger people aren&#39;t old enough to view the information and its just something for people around their age group to talk about. That its too much for the young people. It frustrates me when I encounter 12, 13, 14 year old administrators that act like an ass, when I see members act like the youner members aren&#39;t old enough to understand, and so on. Just because your 14 or 15 doesn&#39;t mean a 12 year old won&#39;t understand it. Just because your 21 doesn&#39;t mean an 18 year old can&#39;t understand.

What&#39;ll it hurt if the kid does come here and go? What could he possibly read that will hurt him? Okay, I&#39;m getting wayyyy too worked up over such a small thing now, so.....I&#39;m done, lol. Sorry if I appear offensive, I&#39;m not trying to hurt anyone ;)

Originally posted by Syaoran@Jan 17 2005, 07:57 AM
gosh. but looking at the previous post, i really think our choice of language is getting really colourful now =_= shouldn&#39;t we keep stuff less explicit or at least put a warning on the forum thread so that some 14 yr old kid won&#39;t come here and go @_@ ?

Ichigo&#39;s forum is a free speech zone, restricted only by:
1. common sense, and
2. the rules of this forum

By signing up here one agrees that he/she is at least 13 years old, and may be subject to objectionable material.

We&#39;re all humans, we will never understand each other but =&#092;...but the most important thing is that you&#39;re happy the way you are, no one else can judge you, coz it&#39;s you, and your life :)

Originally posted by Nightmare@Jan 18 2005, 11:48 AM
Do you realize that the huge majority of this forum is people between 14 and 18? Why would we put a warning on the topic of homosexuality anyways? I&#39;ve seen elementary kids say really offensive insults that even I have never before heard, let alone many other adults. Please don&#39;t be so naive as to think that 14 years don&#39;t know about this stuff, let alone don&#39;t understand it.

If a person, regardless of their age, wants to reply to this topic, they&#39;ll do just that. Its not going to be like they come here, find out what homosexuality is (it would be sad if they didn&#39;t), and then somehow their minds be tramautized for life over this. Nor will it mean they act more immature. Come to think of it, I&#39;ve seen 12 year olds act more mature then some of the older members in this forum.

Sorry to bitch, but its the most aggrivating thing to me when people act like because they are above a specific age, then that means that the younger people aren&#39;t old enough to view the information and its just something for people around their age group to talk about. That its too much for the young people. It frustrates me when I encounter 12, 13, 14 year old administrators that act like an ass, when I see members act like the youner members aren&#39;t old enough to understand, and so on. Just because your 14 or 15 doesn&#39;t mean a 12 year old won&#39;t understand it. Just because your 21 doesn&#39;t mean an 18 year old can&#39;t understand.

What&#39;ll it hurt if the kid does come here and go? What could he possibly read that will hurt him? Okay, I&#39;m getting wayyyy too worked up over such a small thing now, so.....I&#39;m done, lol. Sorry if I appear offensive, I&#39;m not trying to hurt anyone ;)
lol...it was definite not my intention to put forward the "ah-i-am-above-the-age-so-i-can-talk-what-u-cannot-talk" attitude ;) But yeah, i get your point. Cool down a bit yah? My apologies for creating this misunderstanding :) i brought it up since it crossed my mind after seeing Eternal&#39;s post.

We&#39;re not talking about porn or anything, we&#39;re talking about the facts of life. It&#39;s reality.

The case against homosexual marriage.

For years this had been an open topic for me. I took not one side or the other. I had no reason to. Over time, as I probed the question more, the answer became very clear to me. Now it is so painfully obvious I shiver at the memory of my own ignorance. I hope the reader has a similar experience after reading this article. I will proceed to completely dismantle the entire pro-homosexual marriage arguement, then I will break apart the moral foundations of the issue.

Naturality:

1. Homosexuality is not natural. Those supporting the homosexual arguement have many reasons which they claim are "proof." Al of these are wrong.

Studies have found very small instances of what appears to be homosexuals use that as definitive proof that because animals do it, it must be natural. Animals also practice cannibalism in rare instances. Should that be considered natural human behaviour? How about Polygamy? That&#39;s far more common amongst animals. Should that also be considered "natural" human behavior?

There have been countless studies trying to find a link between homosexual behavior and a particular gene. Despite the temendous effort to find this elusive gene, nothing remotely conclusive has been found. The reason is simple: There is no gene. In fact this has already been proved in countless "twin" studies like the Austrailian Registry study(1) in which identical twins were examined.
When one twin was homosexual, the other had a 38% of also being homosexual amongst males and 30% amongst females. Because identical twins have the exact same genes, both twins would have to always have the same sexual orientation. This study not only proves the non-existence of a homosexual gene but also the tremendous effect that the environment has on one&#39;s sexual orientation.

2. Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. Those supporting the Pro-homosexual marriage arguement claim that it is not a lifestyle choice because no homosexual makes the conscious choice to be attracted to the same sex. I happen to be attracted to asian women though I am in fact caucasian. In fact, my fiance is Filipina. Should I then say that this is not a lifestyle choice? I also happen to enjoy politics, do you think I just suddenly decided to begin "enjoying" politics? That would be absurd, yet, like a lot of truly absurd things, many people believe it. Homosexuality is very clearly a lifestyle choice. In fact, many of the same people that claim it not to be a lifestyle choice are very adamant about presenting all the "positive" factors of the homosexual lifestyle. The television show "Queer Eye For The Straight Guy" is a prime example of glorification of homosexual lifestyle. Yet, if you asked any of the homosexual men on the show whether or not homosexuality was genetic or a
lifestyle choice, what do you think they would say?

3. Darwinism contradicts the possibility of a homosexual gene. Many people on the left and far left are strong advocates of Darwinism. You will find many that believe in Darwin&#39;s theory that also believe that homosexuality is genetic. This truly saddens me. The law of Natural selection states that species that do not live to reproduce, do not create offspring, and thus die off. If there was a
homosexual gene and humans could not override their instincts (as homosexuals claim), those that have it could NEVER reproduce, and thus could never procreate. Why isn&#39;t this obvious?

Morality:

4. Allowing homosexual marriage is in the gray area as far as ethics is concerned. When the word "love" is brought into the equation, almost all logic dissapears. This is why the arguement, "But we love eachother so it&#39;s ok," is hard to defend against. Love doesn&#39;t make everything ok though. Is polygamy "ok" if all the partners love eachother? Should we have polygamistic marriages? If a father and his daughter love eachother very much, should they be allowed to marry and commit incest? If someone were to "Love" an inanimate object or animal, would that also be allowed based on this
premise?

Many that are on the side of implementing homosexual marriages will claim that because same sex marriage still has two partners, it is ethical whereas polygamy is not. From a logical point of view, this is unlikely. First off, polygamy has been more accepted historically (though homosexuality has its fair share). Second, polygamy still allows for procreation, something necessary, quite natural, and ethical indeed. Third, those that attempt to use rare animal behavior in their arguements to prove the "naturality" of homosexuality, must also realize that polygamy is significantly more widespread and considered normal instinctive behavior in some animals. Even the noble lion practices polygamy. Logically speaking, it is more likely that polygamy is more ethical, given the denotative definition of "ethical".

While it is impossible to prove that polygamy is more "ethical" than homosexuality(2), it&#39;s equally impossible to prove that homosexuality is more ethical than any possible "love" equation. The premise of love in a homosexual relationship is not enough to qualify it above other possible equations. If anything at all, it has a logical disadvantage against polygamy.

5. The same-sex marriage movement tries to compare itself to the civil rights movement in order to qualify its actions. This analogy is fatally flawed. First of all, when African Americans demanding equal rights and their supporters started their movement, they were requesting something entirely different(3). Homosexuals are requesting a change to the definition of marriage. Instead of it being that of just a man and woman, they want it to be extended to that of both sexes as well. The primary function of the family unit is both a foundation for large scale unity starting in mere pairs of two and that of procreation. (not just the constant renewal of humanities number but also that of good parenting and education to teach the next generation how to carry the torch.) I think it&#39;s fair to say (though to be 100% honest, my personal experiences have all been the exact opposite) that homosexuals are capable of bringing positive influence into the life of a child. One is not rendered unable to teach a child good ethical values, academics, ideologies, etc based on their sexual perference. While obvious tendencies toward bias may occur towards sympathy to that of others with similar beliefs, this is true of all parents. NOW, despite that fact that homosexuals may be capable with the mental sculpting of our children, the fact still remains that they are changing our definition of marriage by ommiting procreation and redifining it as any two members of any sex. The civil rights movement changed no definitions of the rights they requested. The definition of a drinking fountain was not changed because a black man was able to drink from it without failing to comply with the law. Its purpose remained identical to the period of time BEFORE the civil rights movement. The same is entirely true of any other aspect of the civil rights movement. Buses still had the same function, as did restaurants. Only difference was that others were allowed to use them. Marriage in and of itself is a right. There&#39;s a difference between redefining an institution and allowing more to use it. Gays already have the right to create a family with a member of the opposite sex. They are asking for
a change in the definition of the institution of marriage to allow their own beliefs. They are not being denied a right that everyone else has. If there was a law that prevented blacks from marrying whites and that law were abolished, it would still be different from the current drive to make homosexual marriages legal, simply because a black+white marriage of opposite sex would still be a man and woman whereas those of the same sex aren&#39;t.

6. If homosexuality were allowed, it would result in the stampeding of rights. When two people get married, where(4) do they typically get married? In a chapel, church, chuppah, etc. Who is able to legally marry other people? A priest, minister, etc. Marriage is a religious rite, and one that exists in numerous religions. The majority of those legally able to marry a couple and the majority of the places that marriages occur in are used by those that hold religious beliefs that homosexuality is immoral.

The first amendment of our constitution states:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Marriage is a truly unique thing in our society. Because the government acknowledges marriage and even provides benefits to encourage it, logically we can assume that religion and the government have worked out a concordance of sorts set in place by this nations&#39;s forefathers. Because our government acknowledges marriage as a legal endevor based on a religious union, it should respect the rules that religions that uphold the practice of marriage put in place. If it forces religions to alter the practice of their beliefs while still acknowledging and legalizing marriage as a religious union, then
it is in violation of the first amendment. I don&#39;t think I need to go on about how wrong that is.

7. The case for homosexual marriage is non existent at best. I think I&#39;ve proved that by now. However, I have yet to offer up a solution. I shall do so now.

I feel that homosexuals should be entitled to limited civil unions. I also think that all steps towards legalizing homosexual marriage needs to be reversed immediately. In Massachusetts where it has become legal, the education system is in a major upheaval. A large number of teachers have been fired or quit as a result of refusing to teach from new textbooks that promote homosexual culture and marriage. It&#39;s insensitive enough to try to make an entirely controversial issue a onesided lesson in children&#39;s schoolbooks, and its even worse that mafia style tactics are being used against educators for not complying with this madness. This needs to be stopped immediately.

The best way to treat someone fairly, is to DO JUST THAT and treat them fairly rather than try to "even things up" by giving positive attention to one group. Both negative and positive prejudice against homosexuals needs to end. Attention must be drawn to the facts. That is the only way to reverse the brainwashing this country has endured. Those that oppose homosexual marriage are often accused of being "hateful". Though I am not hateful of homosexuals, I happen to be hateful of ignorance and those who use ignorance to trample other&#39;s rights in the name of freedom.



(1) Countless other studies have been conducted and typically find results between 30% and 50%. This particular study was cited because it was the largest study, using over 14,000 twin sets as
samples.

(2) Though historical patterns and more modern evidence suggest that polygamy should more logically be accepted.

(3) However, I think it is fair to point out that the methods and circumstances were similar to the cause of the pro-homosexual right movement. History is filled to the brim with struggles of small groups trying to enforce their beliefs on larger groups. That&#39;s how this country was formed. It&#39;s also how Nazism came to power in Germany. Whether or not these events are good is a unique
question for each individual situation. Those that promote the idea of homosexual marriage often capitilize on the "positive" examples of this occurring. I would like the reader to realize that not all movements designed to further and qualify the beliefs of small groups at the cost of the beliefs of larger groups are good.

(4) There are of course exceptions. Some prefer to have their weddings outdoors, or to elope. Regardless of where, the fact remains that marriage is a religious rite.

I&#39;m not particularly against homosexual people, I just don&#39;t see why people use phoney arguments against it. If you like males and you are male, then just say that you&#39;re gay because you chose to be gay. Creating science behind it and altering religious practices to condone it are ridiculous. Don&#39;t force other people to alter their religion or their core beliefs to justify actions they may not agree with. Communistic and Socialistic (and many dictators) do this, a republic does not.

Anyways this piece was written by a friend of mine, we talked at great length before he wrote this and he used several arguments we discussed. I thought he did a great job and that it&#39;d add to this topic.

I have a few gay friends and I work with gay people at work. I certainly have no problem talking with them and I certainly don&#39;t treat them any different. They&#39;re human beings with real feelings/emotions just like everyone else.

-djc

Im from San Francisco, so we are pretty much used to it. We dont really mind, and we respect those who are different. As we are growing up we are pretty much taught not to descriminate against gays and lesbians. At my school, you could get in trouble if you say something like "thats so gay" ect ect. One of my friends said that, and another person got really offended, so the tolerance for gays has gotten deep that people would defend them. I was really happy what our mayor Gavin Newsom did in our city that allowed gays and lesbians to get married, I usually pass by City Hall, and I saw what happened durring those times and saw the long lines, it was truely an amazing sight. And also, ive noticed, that if a person or group trys to outcast itself from a whole group, then the whole group either wants the group to join back with the group, or "bother the group" untill it decides to go back to the original group. Im guessing I dont make much sence, so yeah, thats just what I belive and its a matter of opinion

@Carbunk1e

In what way do you think people who are attracted to the same sex choose to be? I&#39;d just like a little clarification on your opinion before I comment.

this whole thing is stupid =_=
if people choose to be gay - so what?

Originally posted by Daichu@Jan 19 2005, 10:23 AM
this whole thing is stupid =_=
if people choose to be gay - so what?
we&#39;ll some people dont accpet them,
i dissagre with the idea that people choose to be gay aswell

two generations ago there where whole families built on a lie, men married women and had kids but never felt any attraction to them, sufferd from mental problems, and only wiht these new generation of acceptance have they realised they were gay. If you asked them did they choose to be gay? they would say no.

Originally posted by PFT_Shadow+Jan 19 2005, 10:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (PFT_Shadow &#064; Jan 19 2005, 10:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> we&#39;ll some people dont accpet them,
i dissagre with the idea that people choose to be gay aswell

two generations ago there where whole families built on a lie, men married women and had kids but never felt any attraction to them, sufferd from mental problems, and only wiht these new generation of acceptance have they realised they were gay. If you asked them did they choose to be gay? they would say no. [/b]
You could just as easily say that it was environmental. When you are raised in a family that is built on a lie, or however you want to describe it, psychologically, you&#39;re more likely to reject heterosexuality and possibly embrace homosexuality. It&#39;s the same if you were in an abusive home, generally those kids tend to either be abusive or enter a relationship where they are abused. The same goes with parents who have ADD, their kids, even if they don&#39;t have it, tend to learn to act that way, and they call this behavior Environmental ADD. However, I&#39;m not trying to say that Homosexuality is a mental disease, I am suggesting that it is a learned behavior, whether it be from society or from your parents, it is still learned.

Biologically, there is no "gay gene". Those who believe in this "gay gene" generally believe in evolution and survival of the fittest. This makes no sense. If you never breed, your "gay gene" (if it existed) would not be passed on.

I hope this answers your question and Elite666s
<!--QuoteBegin-Elite666
@Carbunk1e

In what way do you think people who are attracted to the same sex choose to be? I&#39;d just like a little clarification on your opinion before I comment.[/quote]

Also I&#39;m just re-stating what I&#39;ve already quoted previously:



Naturality:

1. Homosexuality is not natural. Those supporting the homosexual arguement have many reasons which they claim are "proof." Al of these are wrong.

Studies have found very small instances of what appears to be homosexuals use that as definitive proof that because animals do it, it must be natural. Animals also practice cannibalism in rare instances. Should that be considered natural human behaviour? How about Polygamy? That&#39;s far more common amongst animals. Should that also be considered "natural" human behavior?

There have been countless studies trying to find a link between homosexual behavior and a particular gene. Despite the temendous effort to find this elusive gene, nothing remotely conclusive has been found. The reason is simple: There is no gene. In fact this has already been proved in countless "twin" studies like the Austrailian Registry study(1) in which identical twins were examined.
When one twin was homosexual, the other had a 38% of also being homosexual amongst males and 30% amongst females. Because identical twins have the exact same genes, both twins would have to always have the same sexual orientation. This study not only proves the non-existence of a homosexual gene but also the tremendous effect that the environment has on one&#39;s sexual orientation.

2. Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. Those supporting the Pro-homosexual marriage arguement claim that it is not a lifestyle choice because no homosexual makes the conscious choice to be attracted to the same sex. I happen to be attracted to asian women though I am in fact caucasian. In fact, my fiance is Filipina. Should I then say that this is not a lifestyle choice? I also happen to enjoy politics, do you think I just suddenly decided to begin "enjoying" politics? That would be absurd, yet, like a lot of truly absurd things, many people believe it. Homosexuality is very clearly a lifestyle choice. In fact, many of the same people that claim it not to be a lifestyle choice are very adamant about presenting all the "positive" factors of the homosexual lifestyle. The television show "Queer Eye For The Straight Guy" is a prime example of glorification of homosexual lifestyle. Yet, if you asked any of the homosexual men on the show whether or not homosexuality was genetic or a
lifestyle choice, what do you think they would say?

3. Darwinism contradicts the possibility of a homosexual gene. Many people on the left and far left are strong advocates of Darwinism. You will find many that believe in Darwin&#39;s theory that also believe that homosexuality is genetic. This truly saddens me. The law of Natural selection states that species that do not live to reproduce, do not create offspring, and thus die off. If there was a
homosexual gene and humans could not override their instincts (as homosexuals claim), those that have it could NEVER reproduce, and thus could never procreate. Why isn&#39;t this obvious?

Well, Darwin&#39;s theory is still a theory, I think. And not every gene in the DNA is expressed; some may be dominant, some are there for some unfathomable purposes.

Originally posted by PFT_Shadow@Jan 19 2005, 10:15 AM
we&#39;ll some people dont accpet them,
i dissagre with the idea that people choose to be gay aswell

two generations ago there where whole families built on a lie, men married women and had kids but never felt any attraction to them, sufferd from mental problems, and only wiht these new generation of acceptance have they realised they were gay. If you asked them did they choose to be gay? they would say no.
True :think: some people do actually change though from straight to gay, it could be based on the fact that their sexuality preferences was the same as their own gender, subconciously but they didn&#39;t know cause they didn&#39;t accept it/realise it. (the idea of man x woman confused them from who they really were)

I&#39;m not just making this up - I have some friends who are gay, and its what they said - one actually &#39;chose&#39; to be gay for fun :ph34r:

If people choose to be gay, they how come so many people deny it and deny it that they&#39;re gay, even though they don&#39;t like women, but they do like men. If it was a choice, people wouldn&#39;t choose to be gay because there is so much discrimination.

Homosexuality has been around forever, even since Roman times.

Thank you, that does answer it Carbunk1e.

I just didn&#39;t want to respond your post with the wrong idea of what you meant since I disagree with what you said about it being a choice (I certainly know there was no concious decision on my part to be bisexual and life would be easier if I wasn&#39;t). However, as you have said that you believe that it&#39;s more due to circumstances that affect psychology I agree with you. I don&#39;t really see how it would be a gene as that makes very little sense.

The only point I really disagree with you on is where you say that homosexuality is a learned behaviour, especially if you&#39;re suggesting that homosexual parents result in a homosexual child as there is a significant amount of proof condradicting that. I really don&#39;t know what causes homosexuality but from personal experience with friends who grew up with homosexual parents it wouldn&#39;t seem to commonly be a learned behaviour.

Originally posted by Water Stone@Jan 20 2005, 12:04 AM
Well, Darwin&#39;s theory is still a theory, I think.
It is, but it&#39;s the best theory that&#39;s out there at the moment for explanation of how we all came to be on this planet ;) There&#39;s plenty of other theories out there e.g. Creationist Science but the theory of evolution by natural selection is the most well-respected and has the largest body of evidence behind it. Sure, there&#39;s some huge gaps in it, but at our current level of knowledge it appears to be the most plausible explanation :)

And the gaps are slowly being filled with new findings anyway.

Originally posted by madmazda86@Jan 19 2005, 10:03 PM
It is, but it&#39;s the best theory that&#39;s out there at the moment for explanation of how we all came to be on this planet ;) There&#39;s plenty of other theories out there e.g. Creationist Science but the theory of evolution by natural selection is the most well-respected and has the largest body of evidence behind it. Sure, there&#39;s some huge gaps in it, but at our current level of knowledge it appears to be the most plausible explanation :)
it&#39;s the mitochondria&#33; :ph34r:

I hate lesbians. For every lesbian there is, there&#39;s one less woman out there for me. I love gay men. The more of them they are in the world. The more women there is for me. :D

I&#39;m only kidding. You know my stance. Absolutly completely neutral. The goods and the bads cancel each other out. But still, its none of my damn business.

Originally posted by Zach@Jan 19 2005, 11:05 PM
I hate lesbians. For every lesbian there is, there&#39;s one less woman out there for me. I love gay men. The more of them they are in the world. The more women there is for me. :D

I&#39;m only kidding. You know my stance. Absolutly completely neutral. The goods and the bads cancel each other out. But still, its none of my damn business.
You be talkin&#39; mah langwich, man.

But I guess that it would be *really* sad to live in a country where homosexuality is actually illegal. :(

Originally posted by Hiei@Jan 19 2005, 10:50 PM
this statement is now making me forced to read a line from my philosophy.

Page 12, section III, line 45.

Everyone may have a different point of view, but we all see the same thing.


Like the line says, you think that gay ppl suck, but you like lesbian action. Now a homosexual guy may think that lesbians suck, but they like gay action. What I&#39;m tring to say is you might think it that way while others think the other way. The best way to think is to think neutral.

Bah sorry if this doesnt make sense. I&#39;m really tired today...

zzzzz
like my professor says

according to physics and biology... nothing sucks


everything blows (sucking is a process of blowing... technically speaking...)

I don&#39;t know why, or maybe cannot explain why, but I am homophobic and have an uncontrolled fear of homosexuals.

Originally posted by Water Stone@Jan 19 2005, 07:04 AM
Well, Darwin&#39;s theory is still a theory, I think.
heh there could be an entire thread on discussion about this...

(also Zach never fails to make me laugh :lol:)

the greeks didnt have sexuality in the normal sense, but there was etiquite to be followed if that was what u went for

I think homosexuality is just a normal thing. Some people think it&#39;s disgusting, but why would you think about like that? Holland is a free country, we also had the first gaymarriages. I was very proud of that. We allowed every marriages. We&#39;re all even. We also have a GayParade once a year, we all love it, and homosexuality? I think we must not look upon or against homosexuality. They&#39;re just human like you

I think the gayparade is one thing I don&#39;t like.. Those people are indeed attention seekers IMO, OMG IM GAY~&#33;&#33;

Nothing wrong with gay people, but they don&#39;t need to start their own parades... Unless there is a straight parade too =/

lol, first I don&#39;t like gayparade at all, but when you see how much they enjoy, I think it&#39;s okay and I&#39;m not against gayparades, I mean, finally something they can be proud of :P But I agree, it&#39;s not very cool to watch it...

How about straight parades? I want to stand on a float and be all like "OMG. LOOK AT ME&#33;&#33; I&#39;M STRAIGHT&#33;&#33;" All those gay parades do is make homophobic people more homophobic.

And as for Holland, I disagree with most of their ideologies. They&#39;re pretty much like "Let&#39;s make EVERYTHING legal&#33; Nothing can go wrong if we do that&#33;". <sarcasm>&#39;Cause yeah, brothels are a fantastic idea...</sarcasm>

Holland is great. Its laws are based on convenient logic.

Where&#39;s Angie to explain the finer points of the law?

Originally posted by Zach@Jan 19 2005, 11:05 PM
I hate lesbians. For every lesbian there is, there&#39;s one less woman out there for me. I love gay men. The more of them they are in the world. The more women there is for me. :D

I&#39;m only kidding. You know my stance. Absolutly completely neutral. The goods and the bads cancel each other out. But still, its none of my damn business.
I couldn&#39;t have said it better myself. :D

And as for Holland, I disagree with most of their ideologies. They&#39;re pretty much like "Let&#39;s make EVERYTHING legal&#33; Nothing can go wrong if we do that&#33;". <sarcasm>&#39;Cause yeah, brothels are a fantastic idea...</sarcasm>
Australia has legal brothels, i beleive...correct me if im wrong

Pride parades i have no problems with, its do do with thier abuility to be open and surrounded by lots of like minded people. Its hard to convert a homophobic, but a pride march does give them an excuss to be more open about it.

pride parades are a little useless, i mean, all they do is show how many people are homosexual, but what does that do? its well known there are gays/lesbians out there...:/

Originally posted by Zach@Jan 23 2005, 06:15 PM
Holland is great. Its laws are based on convenient logic.

Where&#39;s Angie to explain the finer points of the law?
Haha, if only that was true. Although I think in many cases our laws are more logical and especially more modern than for example the old fashioned stoneage laws in the US. =P

Originally posted by Harv@Jan 23 2005, 09:50 AM
<sarcasm>&#39;Cause yeah, brothels are a fantastic idea...</sarcasm>
brothels are legal in parts of the US too, like Nevada (outside Las Vegas)

That&#39;s just fucking stupid then. It&#39;s a well known fact that most girls/women who become prostitutes don&#39;t do it because they want to get lots of sex from fat desperate men. They do it because they feel like they don&#39;t have any other choice if they want to stay alive.

Actively encouraging brothels is ridiculous.

Different people think differently. Both sides have their facts, their reasons, their pros and cons. Time might tell.

not to mention there&#39;s a lot of money in it... but this is way off topic

Originally posted by PFT_Shadow@Jan 23 2005, 05:18 PM
Australia has legal brothels, i beleive...correct me if im wrong

brothels are legal in plenty of places. america is just publically prudish.

i agree and i need one more thing to say: why is gay marriage so illigal in peoples mind? they usally say"bucause god didnt intend for males and males or felmale and females to marry" this country revoulving around christianity. if it was, why did so many people run away from their countries just to have a free will and think for themselves with out getting in trouble for not beleaving in what the higher office is (which is christianty...coincident, i think not) i have no religion untill there is one with a god and one that isnt so controling like mormon (not tring to be rude, but the religion is controling, my friends church wont let her have coffie(spelling) but will let her have alot of chocolate...creppy) but still, why no same sex marriage?

Gay marriage isn&#39;t so illegal in people&#39;s minds. It&#39;s so illegal. Whether or not it should be legalized may be up for debate, but just pondering legalities will not make it any more or less legal.

EDIT:
Also, American laws don&#39;t penalize anyone for having a homosexual relationship. (No laws that are still enforced/practiced anyway. There are a few archaic anti-sodomy laws in Texas I believe.) If homosexuals want legal acknowledgement of a relationship, they should get their legislators to draft laws allowing them to have Civil Unions. If there is a church that marries homosexuals, those ministers would be qualified to validate the union.

Personally, I don&#39;t care. I&#39;m a Christian, and I know what I recognize as "holy matrimony." And I really don&#39;t give a flying leap at a rolling do-nut what is "legal matrimony." I would not care if it were legalized tomorrow. Many "christians" seem to have forgotten to "cleanse the inward vessel."

Also, for once, I agree with Harv.

I respect that it took a lot of courage to agree with me on this subject, and for that, I salute you.

I often hear from christians that "god didn&#39;t intend"...blah blah. God also didn&#39;t intend for 50% of marriages to end in divorce.
And, you know, The whole country isn&#39;t christian. Freedom of religion. So what about these people who don&#39;t believe in God or believe in a different one? Hmm? Do they have to follow Christian laws too? Bleh. Rant over.

(Note: this was aimed at no one in particular, and not all christians. Just the ones who use that excuse.)

Originally posted by Sashiro@Apr 17 2005, 08:26 AM
I often hear from christians that "god didn&#39;t intend"...blah blah. God also didn&#39;t intend for 50% of marriages to end in divorce.
And, you know, The whole country isn&#39;t christian. Freedom of religion. So what about these people who don&#39;t believe in God or believe in a different one? Hmm? Do they have to follow Christian laws too? Bleh. Rant over.

(Note: this was aimed at no one in particular, and not all christians. Just the ones who use that excuse.)
Conservatives tend to push their beliefs onto others. We see that very clearly in America, but it also happens in other countries. Over here we have a euthanasia system where if someone wants to die and two doctors agree because the person is suffering too much, that person is allowed to die. When there were elections a few years ago and the bigger central-rightwinged party did their best to keep the biggest central-leftwinged party out of the government people feared that some of the smallest right-winged conservative parties would actually become part of our government and that our euthanasia and abortion laws would change to what they were decades ago.

Luckily that didn&#39;t happen, damn conservatives <_<

Freedom or moral, I disagree to homosexual marriage. I don&#39;t mind homosexuals, but I believe that legalising their marriage do bring some negative effects. Firstly, I believe it is against many religions and cultures, legalising it would be offensive and disrespectful. Next, it would encourage homosexuality which is against the laws of nature. Put yourself in a position as parent, who would want their child to be a homosexual. Most importantly, This means they can have children of thier own, by adoption or whatever means. Don&#39;t you think their children will be affected growing in such a surrounding where both their parents are of the same sex.

And all that talk about understanding one another . . .

. . . boils down to rejection, like a body, refusing an organ that was part of itself to begin with.


legalising their marriage do bring some negative effects.
Have you considered the positive effects?


it is against many religions and cultures, legalising it would be offensive and disrespectful.
Now that you&#39;ve considered how "many religions and cultures" think about it, would you consider how the homosexuals think about it?


homosexuality which is against the laws of nature
Is this a personal opinion, or is this a proven, scientific, fact?


Put yourself in a position as parent, who would want their child to be a homosexual.
Different people think differently. Not everybody think alike. Live with it.


Don&#39;t you think their children will be affected growing in such a surrounding where both their parents are of the same sex.
. . . and? Are there statistics to prove that children are more negatively influenced by same-sex parents?

I think we&#39;re going over the same thing yet again. X_X

The only thing we have learnt is that: hot damn, Red Stone can hold a good argument XD

Originally posted by Hiei@Jan 1 2005, 04:51 PM
Lots of people lately think homosexuals are a different person, and belong to a different class then themselves. I&#39;m gay (male), and i&#39;ve been through all of these.

What do others think that is so bad with homosexuals? I just dont get it.

Talk about other issues with homosexuals if you want. I&#39;m just starting the discussion.
...your gay?, :sick:

i dont know if ive even said this and if im repeating myself but im a christian.........i dont agree with homosexuals and i dont think anything like gay marriages should be legalised. but at the same time even though people are gay they&#39;re still human. i had a friend who was gay at college. and even though i dont agree with it he was a really funny guy and made every lesson funny and entertaining. its a shame i dont see him anymore but even though i didnt agree with his sexuality as a person he was still a great guy

homosexuality which is against the laws of nature
WTF?&#33; if gays are so wrong, why wont you be like hitler and kill them off one by one&#33; gays are no diffrent like you and me, like you and me dont have the same thoughts, they dont have the same thoughts;not in a bad way nor a good way, every one is equal no matter what they do&#33; hitler lover.......


Don&#39;t you think their children will be affected growing in such a surrounding where both their parents are of the same sex.
umm, gay parents cant have children, so they have to adopt. that means they have a bigger heart then diffrent sex parents who just fuck all the time with out concern of how they are going to raise their children.

also here somthing you can think on whoever wrote those: i have not had any girl friend yet and im not gay for it, yet people think i am which is as rude and disgracefull. he words gay and lesbian have now become a house hold term and at school is a tool for making fun of people; i would know, im made fun of by the people who sit with the same sex at their table all the time (hah&#33;) also, it because most of my friends are females.... that makes me gay how? im not in to sax disscutions and talking about drugs i didnt use so i dont sit with morons who pretend to be my friends just to take answeres off my test because they are sent out of class so much they dont learn anything...so because of all that, im the gay of 7th grade, and i dont like it, so dose that make me (1) some one who isnt going to be loving. Or (2) some one whi s a freek of nature? no.

Originally posted by Angelic@Apr 17 2005, 12:03 PM
You&#39;re stupid? :sick:
ROFL...you rock. Lmao..

I don&#39;t get it, kai. Does him being homesexual make him a bad person? No. He&#39;s got a great personality, and he&#39;s always been nice from what I&#39;ve seen. Who he likes is none of your goddamn business and you aren&#39;t perfect so stop judging him like that.

For once I love your bluntness Angelic. If you are sick of gays kai, and you are not christian, then blatently you&#39;re behind the modern world. Apparently 1 in 10 guys are gay. A statistic that i swear isn&#39;t true but that&#39;s what I&#39;ve learnt in PSHE. You should be grateful some guys are gay. It leaves more girls for the rest of us. Narrow minded people don&#39;t belong to a discussion like this one.

People, chill. Let him believe whatever he wants to believe. He&#39;ll be the guy missing out on great dudes like Chris Lo (I think, aka Hiei). Not that he really cares or anything.

But yeah, still. None of our damn business.

I know. People can&#39;t be changed. But it was an insult to Hiei so he deserved it? Peace out.

I personally think Hiei is a good person to have around these forums (and his avatar contains a very short buyt wise advice to everyone) so I&#39;d rather not have him insulted for the fact that he&#39;s gay <_<; Live and let live.

BTW, people who say homosexuality is unnatural should should up. Humans like to place themselves above nature but in fact we&#39;re all just animals and everything we do is part of nature, and so is homosexuality.

I&#39;ve know alot of people who are gay, some who are cool to hang out with ^_^ , while the other&#39;s are just a pain X_X ...they think they&#39;re "all that", think they&#39;re the popular one&#39;s around and better than you...pssh, please I can easily beat them half to death my reputation at school :angry: , heh. For my "gay" (with all respect) friends if anyone of them is threatened by some a-hole then they can personally ask me to take care of them permenantly&#33;&#33; :D

Originally posted by kai@Apr 17 2005, 02:59 PM
...your gay?, :sick:
first off i have ntohing against gay people and i beleive everyone should respect their beliefs
kai i have to say
you are a discriminating stupid piece of crap that deserves to be stomped on and innards removed and cooked and forced to be eaten by yourself
sry my grammars bad
i ahve nothing against a person&#39;s belief but i do have a problem with rude remarks that undermimes a person&#39;s belief or personality.
your discriminating an innocent person? :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:
you better as hell give hiei a damn good apology for your disgusting remark.. :angry:

hiei i give you a big pat on the back for starting this thread
you da man&#33; :smileywithbigthumbsup:

and regarding harvs post on prostitutes and how they become prostitutes not of joy but for the money and how its a fact...
how do you know this?

sry if thsi is off topic but wat does @_@ mean?

Although, I am one of the most radical moral conservatives on a personal level, I have yet to see one substantial legal reason why gay marriage should be illegal. I disagree with acting on homosexual nature, but I do not condemn someone for being a homosexual. I don&#39;t think anyone would choose that life for themselves. But still, I see it as something that should be overcome. Still, I am in no position to condemn anyone for what they&#39;ve done with their sexuality. They&#39;ve received a harder lot than I have. And the God I know would not and will not mock or deride them because of their weakness. Anyone who shouts, "God&#33; God&#33;" while attacking someone because of a natural condition will not recognise that God later because they took the poisonous cup of indignation from a different hand.

Now, touching prostitution. It is the single most abominable institution in the history of the earth. It is the most perverse and pernicious form of slavery. While purchasing an artificial and twisted gratification you disgrace the vender and throw them down to a level below humanity. And for what? For an ejaculation? For some repulsive sensation of dominance? I have nothing but contempt for any patron of that "service."

There is nothing wrong with gay/bi ppl. My best friend is bi, and shes awesome. I dont even think about it if i have friends that are. I dunno i jus accept them. Its jus the really fruity ones that bother me the most.... -_-

Originally posted by Alfonso de Sabio@Apr 17 2005, 09:29 PM
I don&#39;t think anyone would choose that life for themselves.
Yeah. I mean, who would choose to be insulted and discriminated against? Who would choose to be the victim of hate crimes? No one would. That&#39;s sort of what makes me think that they didn&#39;t choose.
Think about this: the only difference between male and female is a few little chromosones. I mean, the brain is so complex and if anything is even a little off-balance, it can cause a defect, cause people to be left handed, and stuff like that. I mean...The brain is so complex and even a little something wrong can change the person. It&#39;s hard to put it into words, really...I guess because we really know so little about the brain. We know so much, but so little.

I feel utterly demoralised by red stone. But I have to agree with what Sashiro said. There are some people who actually have physical features of the other gender, mostly boys that are mistaken for girls and are brought up like a girl. But they have xy chromosome which actually mean that scienifically they are males.

There are some people who actually have physical features of the other gender, mostly boys that are mistaken for girls and are brought up like a girl. But they have xy chromosome which actually mean that scienifically they are males.

I heard about these people&#33;&#33; Apparently there was this faulty gene (methinks somewhere in Africa bur unsure :think: ) that stopped the male foetus growing a penis- so they were born and raised a girl- but when they hit puberty- a lot of testosterone was produced (as they were still biologically male)- so that then caused them to grow a penis. (Hope i haven&#39;t scared any pre-pubescent girls here)


And with homosexuality- i think as long as they don&#39;t fuss about it then it&#39;s okay- i mean, straight people don&#39;t go around shouting "i&#39;m straight&#33;" so why should some gay people do the same?

^ Because gays are fighting a social condemnation.

the whole condemntion crap is so dumb. Homosexuals are jus like us....I dont see what the big deal is..... <_<

Neither do homosexuals. However, people who don&#39;t see a big difference aren&#39;t the ones they&#39;re trying to get to.

Alfonso de Sabio is right, they are. I mean, they are being denied the right to marry, and some people are now trying to make it illegal for them to adopt too. It&#39;s not like there are a shortage of children in the system, and all of them want a loving home where they don&#39;t have to be tossed from foster family to foster family.

the general public probably supposes that if a child is being raised by gay/lesbians, then when he/she will grow up he/she will also be gay/lesbian; and since the public doesnt like gays or lesbians (despite them saying that "its a free country" and "im not a racist"), they can hardly be expected to want to raise more of them...

Edit: spelling

*lesbian

I find that alot of people who are homophobes are
a.) hypocritical
b.) believe the silly stereotypes and myths
and c.) are usually morons

yup,
sadlly this streotype view of a homophobic is all to true

XD XD XD I too do not know why gays cannot adopt. im prity sure if the child has been from foster parent to foster parent, they know what they want to be or are. and you can say some one will be gay under the influnce of gay parents&#33; there are plenty or "straight" perents that have gay children. nad it wouldnt be "im not racist" it would be "im not pregidus (spelling)" and homophobics are very hysterical, its like your a friend with a gay for years, then they tell you they are gay and &#39;viola&#33; they are scared of you...its stupid, crule and unusual and very mean...dont use drugs...

^ And even if they&#39;re not under a universal social condemnation, they&#39;re almost always under a stereotype.

are you referring to me calling homsexuals "caring and funny and beautiful"?? But they all are caring and beautiful ::realizes that she hasn&#39;t met every homosexual in the world:: ....well at least the one&#39;s I&#39;ve met.... :heh:



"I *heart* homosexuals&#33;"


and are you quoting me?&#33; <_< I did not say "heart".....

I wasn&#39;t quoting, necesarily, more like illustrating.

In my opinion, bost extremes are annoying - hating a homosexual without reason, and loving them without reason... what happened to the "judge the person" stuff.


I *heart* homosexuals

so you love all homosexuals; meaning that there is no such thing as a bad homosexual? stereotypes, stereotypes *tsk tsk*

Originally posted by Alone@Apr 20 2005, 11:42 PM
so you love all homosexuals; meaning that there is no such thing as a bad homosexual? stereotypes, stereotypes *tsk tsk*

I *heart* homosexuals
Where is the "all"?

Does this have to turn into a damn english lesson?&#33; get a grammar book, and look up what the &#39;s&#39; in homosexuals means...

if you want to pretend being stupid, do it somewhere else <_<

omg&#33; are you even gay?&#33; no&#33; so dont let it bother u....grr


if you want to pretend being stupid, do it somewhere else

and maybe you&#39;re the ones that&#39;s being stupid. there IS NO "all" in that sentence.for all you knew i could have meant the homosexuals that i know. And why isnt there a reason to love all homosexuals they&#39;ve been though ALOT of crap. I&#39;m sure they&#39;d appreciate the extra love...

o.O +ish the newbie+ >.> If you ask me, I think most of you are crazy. But on the topic. I find nothing wrong with being gay or anything else. Ellen Degeneres is my hero. ^^

Originally posted by Alone@Apr 20 2005, 06:42 PM
In my opinion, bost extremes are annoying - hating a homosexual without reason, and loving them without reason... what happened to the "judge the person" stuff.



so you love all homosexuals; meaning that there is no such thing as a bad homosexual? stereotypes, stereotypes *tsk tsk*
That was kind of my point. That stereotypes are annoying. I was being sarcastic and poking fun at the person who posted above me.

Check it out here (http://forums.ichigos.com/index.php?showtopic=2728&view=findpost&p=117347).

EDIT:
To my knowledge, that&#39;s the only smiley I have ever used. Ever. It was to illustrate my sarcasm.

I just spent half an hour scraping the crap posts off this thread. It&#39;s a good thread, but there was a lot of shit a-flying. It&#39;s mostly gone now :governator:

carry on...

I just spent half an hour scraping the crap posts off this thread.


GASP u deleted most of my posts....

I apologize for my crappy posts&#33;&#33;&#33; :crybaby:

....sawwy

I can&#39;t remember who is gay here on ichigos but I always wondered how do gay people tell who else is gay? Is it just instinct? <a very confuzzled an-kun> This isn&#39;t meant to be offensive though to anybody if someone does find it offensive.

There&#39;s no special way to tell if someone&#39;s gay. Of course there are mannerisms associated with it but there are plenty of effeminate heterosexual guys and many gay or bi males who appear completely heterosexual. The only way to be sure is to ask someone.

The only way to be sure is to ask someone.

Which can be really embarrassing, especially is someone asks you if youre gay when youre not

Or you could just wait for them to tell you. (If they want to, that is.)

but ussualy, if there is someone that is gay, they ussualy can spot out that somone else is.. right??
atleast thats what i have noticed....

^ I don&#39;t think that one is equiped with "gay-dar" when born homosexual.

One does not become any better at discerning the sexuality of a person by being homosexual. Maybe by being homosexual they have an increased sensitivity to common mannerisms but there isn&#39;t any special gaydar power that they have.

lol, im not saying that they have powers. im saying like, is there hints or signs that shows someone else is gay??

like (i dont know if this is the same in your countries) if you want to buy drugs of some sort, and you dont know where to buy, then all you have to look for is shoes hanging on the power lines outside the house... (im not sayin i do drugs, its just my friend does)

lol, haha, drugs...but i think gay-dar is wrong and stupid, but some gays act...well to put it in a un-crule way, but they act like sterio-types. they wear the "cloth" talk the "talk" do the "walk"...that all rhymes...but on abc they did a test on random people to see if they had "gay-dar", they were almost all wrong. they could of took people and told them to act gay&#33;

lol, well according to my friends friends (they are gay) that there are two different types of gay... there is the &#39;fag gay&#39; and the &#39;gay&#39;
teh fag gay are those who look like girls, walk like them and everythng (for those who watch queer eye, well carlson is fag gay XD)
and &#39;gay&#39; are those who act normal, who look like normal men and dont go around being stupid little girlies... (hope i didn offend anyone.. sorry if i did..)
so my point is, umm...

but they act like sterio-types. they wear the "cloth" talk the "talk" do the "walk"...
this is not true....

Do you mean transvestites?

eh?? those are crossdressers ya??
no i dont mean them...
basicaly, there are those who act like normal men and those that are just a little more queer than ussual.. i dunno... ill just shut up now..

in my opinion love is love and sex is sex , the gender don&#39;t care , because we&#39;re all the same , if you love someone of you&#39;re same gender , what&#39;s the problem? , who said that you cannot do that ? the love is something with can&#39;t control anyway ; or if you like to have sex with other man/woman because you like it , ok , the sex actually is an instument of pleasure , and each person have a different way to feel it , there is not any problem in search your own pleasure , is it? (personally i don&#39;t do any difference between is gay or not , because it has no sense because so i can divide the people in "persons who plays the piano and those that not" or "the world can be divide in two parts , the ones who are agree with this affirmation and those who aren&#39;t agree" , divide the "types" of persons is simple ridiculous ) ^_^

I know plenty of Gay people. Half I didn&#39;t know were gay until they specifically told me or asked me out. Urm, the only person I knew was homosexual before they told me was my exboyfriend. I still love hime dearly, as a friend. ^.^

oooh, so your gay?? yay&#33;&#33; my first person i know thats gay (erhh.. should i feel priviledged?? i dunno... )
anywayz... im just in a happy mood today ^^

Originally posted by JcKaji2@May 10 2005, 04:30 AM
in my opinion love is love and sex is sex , the gender don&#39;t care , because we&#39;re all the same , if you love someone of you&#39;re same gender , what&#39;s the problem? , who said that you cannot do that ? the love is something with can&#39;t control anyway ; or if you like to have sex with other man/woman because you like it , ok , the sex actually is an instument of pleasure , and each person have a different way to feel it , there is not any problem in search your own pleasure , is it? (personally i don&#39;t do any difference between is gay or not , because it has no sense because so i can divide the people in "persons who plays the piano and those that not" or "the world can be divide in two parts , the ones who are agree with this affirmation and those who aren&#39;t agree" , divide the "types" of persons is simple ridiculous ) ^_^
You&#39;re not from around here, are you? Is your primary language French? I don&#39;t mean to sound like a prig, it&#39;s just that you used lots of idiomatic phrases that are unique to romance languages.

Originally posted by shui_hu@May 10 2005, 06:02 PM
oooh, so your gay?? yay&#33;&#33; my first person i know thats gay (erhh.. should i feel priviledged?? i dunno... )
anywayz... im just in a happy mood today ^^
You may want to look at a profile before you post. Artificial Snow happens to be female.

oh ok.. sorry Artificial Snow

Originally posted by Alfonso de Sabio@May 11 2005, 07:08 PM
You&#39;re not from around here, are you? Is your primary language French? I don&#39;t mean to sound like a prig, it&#39;s just that you used lots of idiomatic phrases that are unique to romance languages.
jajaja, you&#39;re almost right :lol: , my primary language is the spanish , and i know the italian too ^_^ , but it has been a long time since i don&#39;t pratice my english , it&#39;s that so evident ? :cry: :cry: :cry:

is there hints or signs that shows someone else is gay??

I read in the newspaper earlier that; (don&#39;t hava a go at me- i swear this is what they said): "Gays have a unique smelling sweat that attracts the same sex and dispels the opposite sex. Similarly, heterosexuals have a sweat that attracts the opposite sex and dispels the same sex."

I would agree with this- but if it was true, then why would straight guys have straight guy friends??

"slaps around" Oh stop it, you silly, tee-hee-hee~~ <3 Gay people are amongst the coolest, peaceful people on earth. I&#39;m straight male, but i got alot of gay friends.

I think that it&#39;s alright to have an intimate relationship with someone of the same sex. I have nothing against it. I mean, if that&#39;s what the person wants, why restrict it from them? How fair is that? If I was to fall in love with a man or a woman, I would not want somebody down my neck bugging me about who I want to spend the rest of my life with. All my friends think like that, too, though I don&#39;t think any of us are homosexual. Maybe bi? It doesn&#39;t matter to me. I have no right to decide who a person should be attracted to and neither does anyone else.

There really isnt a difference between Homosexuality and Hetrosexuality. I personally have nothing against either one, I actually urge them to go on. To put my statement into into easier perspective I would have to say If you are Gay,Lesbian,Bi,Transvestite,or Straight you are who you are no one has the right to judge you or change you but yourself. But I do feel little pity for those who judge them because they probably had a traumatic incident involving a sexually active concept to make them pass judgement or fear those kind of people(The Homosexuals,Bi&#39;s,And Transvestites I mean)

Originally posted by shui_hu@May 10 2005, 12:14 AM
lol, well according to my friends friends (they are gay) that there are two different types of gay... there is the &#39;fag gay&#39; and the &#39;gay&#39;
teh fag gay are those who look like girls, walk like them and everythng (for those who watch queer eye, well carlson is fag gay XD)
and &#39;gay&#39; are those who act normal, who look like normal men and dont go around being stupid little girlies... (hope i didn offend anyone.. sorry if i did..)
so my point is, umm...

this is not true....
i&#39;m gay and not fag gay.

and i feel in no way compelled to act like a woman.

Although i am a bit more emotional than the usual male...

Fag gay?

I think he means the gay people who prance around like women who don&#39;t act like men at all. Correct me if I&#39;m wrong. :think:

I think its stupid to put people in "boxes" just for the people they love. its like making a box for people who like blacks, asians, irish, fat , skinny, tan, light, retarded, smart, whatever, they love who they love. is it wrong for a hardcore white christian to love an islamic black? no, so what does it matter if a guy loves another guy, they feel for each other and if the love is true, no one is being hurt other then the homaphobics.

omg...I never thought I&#39;d see the day...I AGREE WITH YOU DC&#33;&#33;&#33; lol wow. You do realize this has never happened EVER right? Lol high-five&#33;&#33; :D

ok...I&#39;ll stop now ^_^

but "Amen. Amen." to what you said.

um...........lol?

lol, yeah lol. I have weird opinons on topics so im not surrprised.

It&#39;s not that your opinions are weird (:comfort:) it&#39;s just that we&#39;re almost total opposites (In case you had&#39;nt noticed with all our bickering XD)...I&#39;m sorry I made such a fuss it was just...I didnt expect it :lol:

I think he means the gay people who prance around like women who don&#39;t act like men at all.

I dont really see what people mean by acting like a man or a woman :huh: i mean, everyone has their own unique personality, and no one has the right to say that one person is more of a man/woman than another just because they&#39;re different.

:o You misunderstand me. I&#39;m not saying that he&#39;s a woman or what not. I&#39;m just trying to get across the type of person he&#39;s trying to say, like a definition. If I were to say the type of person who you would think was gay by the way they act, then you&#39;d probably say that "you can&#39;t be prejudiced" an I would agree with you. Thorn you describe fag gay then. I don&#39;t know how else to put it apart from if you&#39;ve ever watched queer eye for the straight guy. <sighs deeply>


no one has the right to say that one person is more of a man/woman than another just because they&#39;re different.

I THINK (notice I said "think" just in case you want to have a go at me for what I say further on) I understood everything you said thorn. I don&#39;t have that closed a mind. Everyone does have their own personality. I&#39;m just trying to DESCRIBE it&#33; I didn&#39;t say it was a bad thing if you read it properly. You&#39;re saying I don&#39;t have a right just because they are different to me. I have no idea why you thought I was saying something like that.

I give up. People accuse me because they misunderstand my intentions. X_X
I find it quite painful and frustrating when people have a go at me like this. :(
I know you&#39;re a decent guy thorn. We&#39;re just not on the same wavelength of thinking I think. :unsure: X_X

Um, to make this relevant to the thread, there is nothing wrong with whatever you do as long as it doesn&#39;t hurt other people. In other words there&#39;s nothing wrong with being gay as long as it doesn&#39;t involve hurting others. (This can&#39;t possibly be picked apart too can it?)

:o i&#39;m so sorry you took it that way :( i didnt mean it to sound like i was having a go or anything, i was just saying that for anyone who may interpret it in the way you thought i did.

it was a completely harmless comment and i&#39;m sorry if i offended *slaps self with a wet fish*

in m eyes, men/men and women/women seem a bit...unqiue, i&#39;m not saying it in a bad way though, i think its completely natural...but because i&#39;m a straight i really can&#39;t say....my dad once told me when i was little that ppl with homosexuality are actually souls/spirits that have been born in the wrong body....:o

my dad once told me when i was little that ppl with homosexuality are actually souls/spirits that have been born in the wrong body.

i completely and utterly agree- 100%

is that 100% or -100%?

I&#39;m sure he means +100%.sorry about butting in.

yeah i meant + 100%

Originally posted by Thorn@Jun 3 2005, 03:08 PM
:o i&#39;m so sorry you took it that way :( i didnt mean it to sound like i was having a go or anything, i was just saying that for anyone who may interpret it in the way you thought i did.

it was a completely harmless comment and i&#39;m sorry if i offended *slaps self with a wet fish*
Thanks :) It&#39;s ok, don&#39;t worry about it. Maybe I overreacted. XD Ah I feel much happier now ^_^ Don&#39;t slap yourself. You apologised and that makes up for everything. I apologise for misinterpreting your comment. <bows out>

Originally posted by Thorn@Jun 3 2005, 04:08 PM

i completely and utterly agree- 100%
do you have any proof? Because i dont agree on that at all. I dont even want to be a girl.

http://www.adherents.com/misc/paradoxEvolution.html

Interesting. Just learnt about it in Biology.

soul in the wrong bady my ass. they are who they are. Would you want every one to act diffrent around you if you are gay? Humans are Humans.



I dont really see what people mean by acting like a man or a woman huh.gif i mean, everyone has their own unique personality, and no one has the right to say that one person is more of a man/woman than another just because they&#39;re different.

Meh, I act a little femanin and im not gay, no biggie, im just a sissy.

Originally posted by Shizuno@Jun 3 2005, 08:07 AM
.my dad once told me when i was little that ppl with homosexuality are actually souls/spirits that have been born in the wrong body....:o
no offense to your dad, but that&#39;s pretty ignorant

Originally posted by Roy Mustang@Jun 3 2005, 10:48 PM
http://www.adherents.com/misc/paradoxEvolution.html

Interesting. Just learnt about it in Biology.
figures it be the Paradox Evolution =_=

do you have any proof? Because i dont agree on that at all. I dont even want to be a girl.

no i dont have any proof- its just something i agree with; you may not consciously want to be a girl, but it&#39;s possible that subconsciously you might- or that your sould has just got used to being male at a very young age.

i dont really know how to explain it- and i realise that explaination could be taken offensively and im sorry if it has been. i&#39;m still not saying what&#39;s right or wrong because no one has the right to do that, and i believe that at the end of the day, when two souls meet and fall in love, theres nothing wrong with that whatever their genders are.

but there again, i&#39;m asexual, so i may not understand these things as well as someone who does experience those kind of feelings

I just found out that my friend is a homosexual. I can&#39;t believe it...

Before, people would ask me "Is your friend gay?" and I&#39;d say "no, he&#39;s not. he&#39;s just this really sensitive guy who doesn&#39;t like to keep the macho image."

and now... It&#39;s like... wow...

Sometimes I&#39;d read discussions and opinions about the third sex but I never really entertained them in my mind coz y&#39;know I thought &#39;it&#39;s okey. who cares? why make a big deal out of it?&#39; I never really thought that I&#39;d have a friend who&#39;d come out into the open and say "I also have feelings for the same sex." it&#39;s just so mind blowing. First of all, I never expected it from him. second, it&#39;s also kind of disappointing coz he&#39;s smart, sensitive, nice, a good listener and... the kind of guy some girls could fall for (excluding me).

Guess I&#39;m still in shock....

But in fairness if that is the real him then it&#39;s okey by me. We do have freedom of expression,right?

all I can say is that homosexuals should also be prepared for the reactions of other people(specially if they coming out for the first time). their close friends and family may not be so accepting coz they are accustomed to their other self or old self.

Well my mom said if she ever found out i was gay then she and my dad would disown me....so

I haven&#39;t came out to them yet, only one person irl knows, a very close friend from school and she the best, so she&#39;ll never tell.

But other than that, i have no plans to come out until i can support myself, without my parents.

My mom and dad really hate gay people for some reason and it hurts me every time they say something bad about homosexuals in general, like watching a news story on TV, and my mom will say something like, "Those fags need to go burn in hell." and my dad agreeing with her, it hurts me and it hurts me alot. I can&#39;t come out to them, nor anyone else in my family, they all share the same views, and its hard being gay here where I live anyway...South Georgia... Supposedly very straight forward, good ol&#39; country cowboys and girls, well, i may be a cowboy, but i&#39;m a gay one and there&#39;s not much i can do to change it, I&#39;ve had these feelings for a long time, even before my dad was mixed up and hooked on drugs for a while, and when he used to hit my mom, but i dealt with all those feelings long ago, anf they in no way affected me being the person I am today, I feel as though i was born this way, because i have felt nothing towards women except for friendship. Sometimes I just don&#39;t understand, but then again, sometimes I don&#39;t want to. I&#39;ll just say it again, I&#39;m just the way I am and no one can change it, I wish i could come out but I can&#39;t right now unless i want to live on the streets, because I really believe my parents would disown and throw me out if they found out I was gay.

It&#39;s sad when one&#39;s own parents can&#39;t accept the way their own children are. *hugs Paradox* Well, at least you&#39;re accepting yourself, I wish I knew what to say, but I&#39;ve been broght up by pretty understanding parents, well, I don&#39;t really know what my dad thinks but I don&#39;t care what her thinks anyway, and I&#39;d like to think that I&#39;m open minded. Where I am and with the people I&#39;ve surrounded myself with, we&#39;re all mostly supportive of people.

I&#39;ve heard that in South America they&#39;re less tolerent of things that are "different" but as the saying goes, "We only fear what swe don&#39;t understand."

I can KINDA relate to ya, Paradox, I&#39;ve been bullied so much, and racist comments really infuriate me. But I&#39;ve learnt to ralize, that these people only say what they say, becaus ethey are ignorant, they don&#39;t understand. In the end, I end up pitying them for their narrow-mindedness. What I&#39;m trying to say is, keep being your own person. You said yourse;f, no-one can change who you are, and keep believing in yourself. I imagine you&#39;ll know the right time to let your parents know if you ever want to, be it while you&#39;re still living with them or not, but I think you&#39;ll be fine. You have the right ideals ^_^

I don&#39;t care what you do with other boys just leave my out of it and i&#39;m okay.

I don&#39;t do anything with "boys", I&#39;m not a Pedofile.


EDIT: added " " to boys.

ok, with other males (happy)

Originally posted by The_Beast666@Jun 7 2005, 07:56 PM
I don&#39;t care what you do with other boys just leave my out of it and i&#39;m okay.
What about if they want to play football or go bowling or talk to girls? I&#39;d wanna join in. Girls are great. People are great. Don&#39;t be hating on a fellow human. We should all unite to take out the biggest threat of them all.. The virus. Evil to the core, baby.

Edit: This is a pretty non sensical post, ain&#39;t it? I need a Red Bull.

Well my mom said if she ever found out i was gay then she and my dad would disown me....so

people like that shouldnt be able to have children.

*kinda sorta agrees* If they hadn&#39;t had children, though, we wouldn&#39;t have Parie&#33; ^_^.
But yeah that was mean of them. They weren&#39;t thinking about how what they said would affect him.

arent parents meant to love you and care for you no matter your decision?

That may be. But just because they&#39;re meant to doesn&#39;t mean they will. Not every paren supports their child in their decision. They don&#39;t realize how much they hurt their child with their own coments whether serios or joking.

Just do what you feel is right, in whatever you do (well not everything, like pointless murder and such but thats getting off track).

My parents say that, but I can tell they are joking by the tone of voice and the timing. People Think Im Gay Becuse I Have Alot Of Female Friends&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; It sucks... :crybaby:

I just Say" You know, you dont have to be my friend" or " You make this world a horrible place to live"

Just say "Jealous much&#33;"

*agrees with ^* they&#39;re probably just jealous that you&#39;ve got a flock of girls around you. Don&#39;t let it get to you ^_^.

they are every one who thinks I am gay&#33; Girls, Boys, Hamaphadites&#33;