ok here a question for chinese: is taiwan a country?

Oficially it's not being recognised as a seperate country but personally I think it should be considered a seperate country. If China would actually take it over I think the situation for the people there would become much worse.

Nobody really dares to stand up to a big country like China though, if it was a country like Korea they wouldn't be allowed to pull pranks like this =/

Hmmm..
I think its really up to Taiwan if they want to be part of China or not
I mean being indepent is kind of hard especially with sucha small country, if they are part of China they can rely on each other for supplies and stuff like that.
But its still up to the citizens of Taiwan if they want to be independant. I think it's kind of wrong for the Chinese to force them. It's their home and their choice.

Originally posted by Eternal@Jul 8 2005, 08:19 PM
Hmmm..
I think its really up to Taiwan if they want to be part of China or not
I mean being indepent is kind of hard especially with sucha small country, if they are part of China they can rely on each other for supplies and stuff like that.
But its still up to the citizens of Taiwan if they want to be independant. I think it's kind of wrong for the Chinese to force them. It's their home and their choice.
well it cant really be up taiwan since they are also chinese. um it would be odd if suddenly there were two chinese countries in the un.

I'm doing a report for summer school on taiwan, right now. I'm supposed to pretend it's a country, but The Potsdam Proclamation signed by China, the United States and Great Britain says that all land that Japan had taken from China in the Sino-Japanese War was to be returned to China, which includes Taiwan.

Taiwanese people are not like completely chinese they are Asian like Koreans and Viets. Are they Chinese too?

They speak Chinese and I think they all came from mainland China(even if it was hundreds of years ago), so I think they are at least a somewhat Chinese. And plus, my Taiwanese friends say that they're Chinese.

well they can also be japanses right? because the Japanese went to Taiwan too.

True, but Japanese isn't their official language anymore. Mandarin is.

Originally posted by Oblivion@Jul 8 2005, 08:44 PM
They speak Chinese and I think they all came from mainland China(even if it was hundreds of years ago), so I think they are at least a somewhat Chinese. And plus, my Taiwanese friends say that they're Chinese.
they went to taiwan in the yrs around 1946-50 because the nationalinst(jaing jee shee) couldnt stop communist mao ze dong from winning a civil they had before japan attack in the 1930's. after ww2 they resumed the civil war and somehow the non commies lost and fled to taiwan.

Taiwan seperated from China after the Chinese revolution/civil war in the 40's. Before that, it was under Holland's control. There's no reason at all why it shouldn't be seen as a seperate country, except for China's constant bitching. Would Italy suddenly claim that all the countries it had under its control as the Roman Empire belong to Italy? Why then could China claim Taiwan should be brought back under its control?

Originally posted by Sinbios Zefiris Ark@Jul 10 2005, 12:11 AM
Holland
The Netherlands <_<

Originally posted by Tom Clancy&#39;s Executive Orders
Yes, there is only one China, but that China doesn&#39;t have the right to enforce its rule on the other China...

Maybe i should say something about this coz i&#39;m from Taiwan?

Taiwan...what China and most countries consider as the R.O.C. (Republic of China)...officially it can&#39;t be called a "country". But that&#39;s to them, to half of the Taiwan population Taiwan is considered INDEPENDANT, to the current government, Taiwan SHOULD be INDEPENDANT...and because of that it&#39;s infuriating China; thus leading China threating to attack Taiwan. As mentioned before, no one really wants to stand up to China...

Anyhow, some of you might be familiar with the last president elections for Taiwan, where the current president was supposely &#39;shot&#39; but yeah, it had some stuff to do with China~ very vague but yeah...it&#39;s just a constant clash between Taiwan and China I guess? Ever since I was small...that&#39;s what I&#39;ve grown up hearing, I go back to Taiwan visiting relatives...you always hear arguments about independance and republic...sort of gets on your nerves.

As for the people, yes I guess we&#39;re "Chinese" bit weird calling ourselves "Taiwanese" BUT in Chinese or..."Pu Tong Hua (Mandarin)" we call ourselve "Tai Wan Len (Taiwan Person)" more likely than calling ourselves "Zho Guo Len (Chinese Person)" Yes we speak chinese...but it&#39;s not a main language believe it or not, the main language is "Taiwanese" or "Fuu Jien Hua" which is much like the language "Hokkein" if you&#39;re Malay or S&#39;porean. However...Country or not, it has the qualities of a separate country, it&#39;s unique in it&#39;s own way, people, culture, history...etc...

Officially it&#39;s not it&#39;s own country...to me, it&#39;s considered one =]...

But that&#39;s just a thought.

Originally posted by Sukari@Jul 10 2005, 08:24 PM
Anyhow, some of you might be familiar with the last president elections for Taiwan, where the current president was supposely &#39;shot&#39; but yeah, it had some stuff to do with China~ very vague but yeah...it&#39;s just a constant clash between Taiwan and China I guess?
Interesting.

The other way people see it is that Mr. Chen Shui Bian staged this hoax to get "sympathy votes", but since concrete evidence is lacking to support either theory . . .

You see, the Taiwanese government stirs the Taiwanese against the Mainland, and the Mainland government stirs the Mainlanders against the Taiwanese. What with? With speculations such as this.

"Unofficially", the Taiwanese government "thinks" that it&#39;s the Mainlanders/ Mainland government behind the shooting, and "unofficially", the Mainland government "thinks" that the Taiwanese/ Taiwanese government is behind the shooting. Wonderful. Bravo.

Needless to say, any family/brotherly/etc "ties" the Mainlanders actually have with the Taiwanese have been thrown out of the window ever since the governments have decided to stick to their own guns. =/

chen shui ben is a loser. he just wants to rule taiwan and make china mad. it will be a dark day for those who side with him when the main landers do attack. Also I dont think america really wants to waste troops if china did attack. All the old prisidents that have promised to protect taiwan in the 1950&#39;s,60&#39;s,70&#39;s,80&#39;s are all dead now.

Originally posted by JF7X@Jul 11 2005, 02:44 AM
chen shui ben is a loser. he just wants to rule taiwan and make china mad. it will be a dark day for those who side with him when the main landers do attack. Also I dont think america really wants to waste troops if china did attack. All the old prisidents that have promised to protect taiwan in the 1950&#39;s,60&#39;s,70&#39;s,80&#39;s are all dead now.
It would make China look very, very bad. China has always put up a political stance of "blah blah we&#39;re peaceful". It would also irk the rest of the world, since China would be setting a bad example - what if Greece decided to take over Turkey, because Turkey was under Greek control at some vague point in time?

And America doesn&#39;t have to send troops - it just have to bar trade with China. North America is one of China&#39;s largest export markets, and China can&#39;t deal with losing it. And it&#39;d also make China look bad in the eyes of the U.N., likely with more trade sanctions coming up.

So China could only bluff at Taiwan, hoping one of its leaders would give in. I don&#39;t see why anyone would want to just give up their country to another&#39;s rule. And it&#39;s not like the China/Taiwan relationship is suffering, since China, in an attempt to look the generous benefactor, implemented several policies to faciliate trade and travel between China and Taiwan.

Oh...I&#39;ll also add that um, if you&#39;re going to be technical, a &#39;Taiwanese&#39; person would be the Natives.

That&#39;s why some Taiwan people consider themselves Chinese, because yeah~

Originally posted by JF7X@Jul 11 2005, 04:44 AM
chen shui ben is a loser. he just wants to rule taiwan and make china mad. it will be a dark day for those who side with him when the main landers do attack. Also I dont think america really wants to waste troops if china did attack. All the old prisidents that have promised to protect taiwan in the 1950&#39;s,60&#39;s,70&#39;s,80&#39;s are all dead now.
The Chinese government is just a bunch of power hungry communistic dictators wanting to rule as much land as possible <_<

Originally posted by Sinbios Zefiris Ark@Jul 11 2005, 02:43 PM
North America is one of China&#39;s largest export markets, and China can&#39;t deal with losing it. And it&#39;d also make China look bad in the eyes of the U.N., likely with more trade sanctions coming up.
I think its the ruling class in particular that will not risk losing trade as it is too closely linked to their coffers.

One of the main reasons places like America don&#39;t want China to take back Taiwan is because the sea in between Taiwan and China is commonly used for imports and exports from country to country, because it&#39;s a shorter route and a safer one. If China took back Taiwan, they can start charging tariff for that sea passing...atleast my uncle in Taiwan told me so anyhow. Make sense but

How about this: China fears an American military presence of Taiwan.

America desires a military presence in Taiwan.

What coin will Chen Shui Bian pay for Taiwan&#39;s independence?

And the governments play on the fears of the people with half-truths and untruths.

Hmmm..
I think its really up to Taiwan if they want to be part of China or not
I mean being indepent is kind of hard especially with sucha small country, if they are part of China they can rely on each other for supplies and stuff like that.
But its still up to the citizens of Taiwan if they want to be independant. I think it's kind of wrong for the Chinese to force them. It's their home and their choice.

Most of Tiwan doesnt like being part of China. My uncle is Tiwanese, and he has mand friends and relitives who say no to being part of China.

I also agree with Sukari. Just becuase they speek Chinese doesnt make them China. Most of the world speeks Engish, that doesnt mave everyone American or Canadian or Brittish.

But beyond speaking Chinese,many Taiwanese ancestors came from Fujian part of China so they do have a connection with China. I don't think citizens of Taiwan are going to have a choice to be independent. No matter how we see it, China is a big country with huge military strenght, Taiwan won't be able to defend herself. In addition to that, many Taiwanese have China relatives, they have much to lose if they are really going to fight for their independence.

But beyond speaking Chinese,many Taiwanese ancestors came from Fujian part of China so they do have a connection with China. I don't think citizens of Taiwan are going to have a choice to be independent. No matter how we see it, China is a big country with huge military strenght, Taiwan won't be able to defend herself. In addition to that, many Taiwanese have China relatives, they have much to lose if they are really going to fight for their independence.
Yeah, and most Americans come from Europe. The European Union can't just one day decide that it wanted America back under its control.

Anyway, a modern war isn't just about who has the bigger military. China cannot risk alienating the international community, which their economy relies on. China is in the course of an economic boom; if they attack Taiwan nobody will buy their produces and soon it will be in a depression. So much to lose, so little to gain.

China economy relies on the international community, but the international community also relies on China's economy. China is one of the major manufacturing countries in the world. Of course nobody would want a war but if it does happen, it isn't that easy for all the countries to have an embargo against China or boycott China's products. Many countries place huge investments in China, what makes you think they will risk affecting their own economy just to side Taiwan?
Afghanistan,Angola, Colombia, Cuba, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK), Iran, Italy, Malaysia,
Morocco, Nepal, Syria, Spain, Ukraine, and Zambia are some countries that support the One-China policy (which states that Taiwan is a part of China) so do you think they will intervene?

Which of the countries you listed are major economical powers? How much of China's export does each of them claim?

The US has already made clear its stance on the matter. Canada and Britain will join because of anti-communist sentiments. Tada, a huge chunk of China's market is instantly gone. Collapsed economy.

Well,the world isn't just made of US, Canada and Britian. Beside, the US also supports the One-China policy, it will only protect Taiwan " if necessary". Thus, going back to the main point whether Taiwan is a country. Taiwan is not recognise as an independent country. Place under the pressure of so many other countries, it is highly unlikely that she will gain independence. That is my stand and not whether China's economy will survive if major economical powers decide not to support its market.

to me taiwan is considered a country but it's future is not looking good. if you ask me, there will eventually be some political turmoil within taiwan. the national consensus is bound to change. but i doubt china will actually use military force

The Chinese government is just a bunch of power hungry communistic dictators wanting to rule as much land as possible

what the fuck? when the hell did China dictators wants to rule as much land as possible? That's nonsense. How many countries has China invaded? Um..not as much as US, Soviet Unions, Germany, Italy, etc..

I can understand they're power hungry, but they're not power hungry for land, they're just power hungry for high position in the government.

well, it would be asy to prevent an attack on Taiwan by China, just get the EU and the North American regions and the rest of asia to out economic sanctions on China and freeze all their international assets. after that, China (mainland) will have no money and since all their assets are forzen, they really cant do much and the only thing left will be letting the international community decide..

but yer, Taiwan should be another country if they wanted to, like hold a referndum(sp) or something lol. Or if they can bear having China as their head of state then they might want to go for a easier alternative? like turning into a SAR, that is the "Special adminstrative Region" where they can have their own consitituion and laws and parlament etc etc. Since like after Britian left, HK was like that as well, and so, Hong Kong was turned to an SAR and ultimately, turned into a seperate colony and have different laws, language and stuff lol.

i amm personally not on very good terms with the mainland xD but then most of the people living in HK is like that hehe, it is just that Britian was so much better in terms of economic managment and general admistration, oh it helps that Britian was a democratic country and not some communisit regime >.>

it is just that Britian was so much better in terms of economic managment and general admistration, oh it helps that Britian was a democratic country and not some communisit regime >.>

i agreed with most of your comments, except this part.

-http://www.unescap.org/stat/meet/rebase/hongkong.pdf suggests that the real or nominal GDP average has remained relatively stable if not improved (aside from the asian recession of 1998). since 96 before and after gdp averaged about 5%. Besides, mainland china is growing at a rapid rate; having them as their motherland is much more of an asset and more logical than having britain mother country thousands of miles away.

-general administration wise i don't see any changes that would somehow make the british rule superior, when they handed the land over everyone merely switched their tags, signs, and flags and went on working as i saw it.

-regime is kind of a deliberately and unreasonable word to describe present day china. even 20 years ago china was an unstable country. with their population, there is a reason why they somewhat to some degree, implement stricter laws

I'm chinese and i think Taiwan is a country even though in general China thinks of it as a province of China because Taiwan lost its seat in the United Nations to the Republic of CHina in 1971. No one calls it the Republic of China anymore that I know of. It's either "I went to China" and "I went to Taiwan", it's never "I went to the Chinese province Taiwan".

Taiwan is not a province IF they consider themselves to be part of china. It's the same as Hong Kong.
um..i don't know in english but it's probably going to be:

特别行政区

Meaning they are part of china but they can govern themselves according to their law or whatever. Hongkong and Shen Zhen are like that

IMO it doesn't really matter if the people in Taiwan 'are' chinese. If the majority of the population wants to seperate, they should have that right. Of course, no government will want to lose a section of their population/land, so China's response is expected.

If it does escalate into an attack or invasion, economic sanctions are about the only tool the world could use. China could invade and take hold of Taiwan before any other country could get to Taiwan with any sort of force, and if they did China would probably consider an attack on 'their' land an act of war.

The US, the 'world powerhouse', for example, would never be able to stand up against China in a fight over Taiwan, considering the US would have large, exposed supply lines and a large chunk of their standing army is already in either Afghanistan or Iraq, and possibly Iran depending on how the situation unfolds. Not to mention that China's army itself is one of the largest (the largest?) conventional army in the world.

And if that did happen and the US or China knew they were going to lose, the nukes would fly and we'll all be dead. :sweat:

IMO it doesn't really matter if the people in Taiwan 'are' chinese. If the majority of the population wants to seperate, they should have that right.

Majority of what population? Majority of population in Taiwan will just be silly, so your saying the population of china + taiwan. Okay..then Taiwan is not leaving because 90% of 1.3 billion population of Mainland China as well as chinese all over the world will say no compare to how many people in taiwan that will say yes?

If your talking about a province. If most of the population in the province wants to seperate they should ahve the right? What you want every country to be like the next soviet union? A powerful country became totally diteriated by inter-country battles.

Might as well say...hey how about every single province in all the country just be a country of its own.

Wouldnt this question be simular to be saying if a state with in the USA wanted to seceed would they have the right? of course not so why would this be any different from what Taiwan has been trying to do?

Isnt Taiwan officaly its own country? If so then whats the point of arguing? And if it isnt it isnt.

the President of Taiwan has a funny name they call him Ah Beeeein
it sounds a lot funnier if you hear a mob of supporters calling him that~
but still Taiwan is awesome in its own way~
During the Chinese New Year HK, Taiwan and Mainland China come together with their biggest stars and have a live show full of acrobats, comidieans, traditional chinese people old and young, as well as some of the hottest asian stars~
I watch that every year and everyone from Taiwan, HK and Mainland like it too, I mean if Taiwan likes to be part of the festivities why not join the country. yea sure there's lots of Political stuff but Taiwan actually put China as a International Flight instead of Domestic like it used to be... I think....

Wouldnt this question be simular to be saying if a state with in the USA wanted to seceed would they have the right? of course not so why would this be any different from what Taiwan has been trying to do?

Not really, the US states all depend on the US government in Washington for a lot of things. Taiwan is completely self sufficient and actually doesn't have anything to do with China anymore.

But, if a state in the US wants to seperate, why not let them? Their choice, not the choice of all the others in that country. Point is, will they be able to be self sufficient?

country or not, it would definently be a tense situation if someone were to put an outside force in order to change the way things are now.

but there is already kinda an out side force. All the western nations who are industiralized.

Not really, the US states all depend on the US government in Washington for a lot of things. Taiwan is completely self sufficient and actually doesn't have anything to do with China anymore.

But, if a state in the US wants to seperate, why not let them? Their choice, not the choice of all the others in that country. Point is, will they be able to be self sufficient?Self-sufficiency has nothing to do with sovereignty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty).

Just because Taiwan is self-sufficient doesn't mean that it has got nothing to do with China.

A hypothetical scenario, analogous to the current China-Taiwan situtation, if you will:

Alaska is self-sufficient, and is lobbying for independence. The country backing Alaska is none other then China. China has also been selling military weapons and equipment to Alaska. How would the Americans feel?

Note that this scenario is only a tip-of-the-iceberg-portray of how things currently are.

Wouldnt this question be simular to be saying if a state with in the USA wanted to seceed would they have the right? of course not so why would this be any different from what Taiwan has been trying to do?
__________________________________________________ ___________-________isnt that what i already asked?

It's really quite complicated and originates from WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY back in the days........Taiwan claims itself to be a country, but mainland china insists that Taiwan belongs to them. There are still debates about it now

Slightly off topic but i have to say that Taiwanese mandarin in a lot nicer than mainland china mandarin.....as in easier to understand.

I heard..... that japanese the language originates from chinese or something like that because a long time ago, there was this war or conflict in china and so some chinese fled to japan and stayed there. As a result, the japanese language has kanji (chinese characters) because of these chinese migrants.....

and it's also said that the Obi on the back of the kimona are what the fleeing chinese mothers put on their children's back to put their books in....

and i don't think taiwan officially have their independence yet......well it's not officially recognised i don't think

I thought that the japanese languge containing kanji was because around 600-700 AD the japanese sent ambassidors and other people to china and korea.

Self-sufficiency has nothing to do with sovereignty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty).

Just because Taiwan is self-sufficient doesn't mean that it has got nothing to do with China.

A hypothetical scenario, analogous to the current China-Taiwan situtation, if you will:

Alaska is self-sufficient, and is lobbying for independence. The country backing Alaska is none other then China. China has also been selling military weapons and equipment to Alaska. How would the Americans feel?

Note that this scenario is only a tip-of-the-iceberg-portray of how things currently are.

Taiwan is a very succesful country. China is far less succesful. If you were more succesful than a group you belong to even though you don't want to belong to that group, wouldn't you prefer breaking with that group and continue on your own because the leader of that group is only slowing you down anyway?

Taiwan is a very successful country. China is far less successful. If you were more successful than a group you belong to even though you don't want to belong to that group, wouldn't you prefer breaking with that group and continue on your own because the leader of that group is only slowing you down anyway?Double-ew. Tee. Eff?

First things first:

GDP (purchasing power parity) of Taiwan: $631.2 billion (2005 est.)
GDP (purchasing power parity) of People's Republic of China: $8.859 trillion (2005 est.)

But I think GDP has little to do with your definition of success. So, by what standards do you judge if one country is more successful than another?

Secondly, I know and understand the logic behind your reasoning - afterall, I was once a teenager, a kid, a child. No one wants the loser on their team.

But as an adult we have to consider the consequences of our actions far beyond immediate gratification. As a leader of a nation, you are willing to renounce your roots, your homeland, your culture, and in pursuit of what? Even the United Kingdom sees the need to sully itself with the European Union - can you foresee the impending long-term disasters awaiting a continent divided, let alone a country divided?

China is a communistic dictatorship, Taiwan is not. I don't find it surprising that the people in Taiwan don't want to be surpressed by the chinese government.

China is a communistic dictatorship, Taiwan is not. I don't find it surprising that the people in Taiwan don't want to be surpressed by the chinese government.At the moment, it is not clear if the majority of Taiwan's population rejects the Chinese Communist Party, but that issue is no reason to hinder the People's Republic of China's sovereignty over Taiwan.

So what if the people in Alaska don't want to be surpressed by the U.S government? They still have no right to declare independance.

See Hong Kong.

At the moment, it is not clear if the majority of Taiwan's population rejects the Chinese Communist Party, but that issue is no reason to hinder the People's Republic of China's sovereignty over Taiwan.

So what if the people in Alaska don't want to be surpressed by the U.S government? They still have no right to declare independance.

See Hong Kong.

Everybody has the right to make themselves independant. It depends on the government they "belong to" what will happen after that. China is threatening Taiwan with military force, and it's likely most countries would do either that or heavy penalties in some other way making it impossible for a country to stay independant, but still, they have the right to become independant.

Montenegro is going to become independant from Serbia, because the majority of the people there want it. Serbia doesn't want it but the international community supports montenegro in this case. If the international community would support Taiwan it could become independant, but everybody's scared of the bloody Chinese government so nobody dares to touch the whole subject.

Some other examples: Indonesia used to be a Dutch colony. After the second world war the Dutch army was sent there because Indonesia tried to become independant. Under pressure of the whole world we had to leave and Indonesia became independant. Nobody complained then about a country becoming independant. Another example: Nobody complained when the former USSR fell apart and the countries in eastern Europe became independant. Now we're scared of Russia again so we're not saying anything about what Russia is doing in chechnya nowadays.

It has nothing to do with whether a country has a right to declare themselves independant or not, they always do. It's about whether they get support from others and with big countries like China, they'll never get it because everybody is scared of China.

but why are fellow countries scared of China? modern warfare does not depend on how much man power you have now.

But who knows how many nukes China has hidden away? You can't trust a communistic dictatorship, who knows what they have boiling under the surface? And aside from that, China's also considered a very important trade partner, and nobody wants to lose that because it would mean a loss in profit and cheap in China produced products.

First off, to use your example of Indonesia declaring itself independent. The same thing happened to Malaysia; it was a British colony (formerly known as Malaysia). Why?

Maybe it had something to do with international pressure. But more realistically, the British Empire were stretched on all fronts, and scarcely had the military power needed to secure all colonies should all of them go into revolt, one after another.

Indonesia was not so different.

And who were the ones clamouring for independent, in both Malaysia and Indonesia? The indigenous people, the people who owned the land, before the Europeans decided that foreign property was a good idea - and proceeded to mark their stamp of civilisation and property upon these countries - now part of their "colonies".

I'd like to think that someone realised that those colonies weren't so far across the line from actually enslaving the people. Better yet, you could enslave, brainwash them, and incorporate their people and their property legally into your coffers!

Right.

The sovereignty belongs to the people - that is why the people have the right to declare independence, as it is an exercise of sovereignty. That is why the Dutch returned Indonesia to the Indonesians, because the sovereignty of Indonesia belongs to the Indonesians. That is why the British returned Malaysia to the Malaysians, because the sovereignty of Malaysia belongs to the Malaysians. That is why the British returned Hong Kong to the Chinese, because the sovereignty of Hong Kong belongs to the Chinese.

That is also the reason why Taiwan cannot declare itself independent; because the sovereignty of Taiwan belongs to the Chinese. It was foolish and so typically Chinese (derogatory tone intended) of the KMT to have rejected the Chinese Communist Party in the first place, but it was even more foolish and even more typically Chinese of the Chinese Communist Party (pun not intended) to have rejected the KMT Party later on. The fact that two of most influential political parties in China made such a massive mess is no reason for the people of China to divide, no reason to allow other countries the opportunity to interfere with the fate and sovereignty of the Chinese people.

Sun Zhong Shan, the founder of the KMT and the People's Republic of China, would be spinning in his grave knowing that an ex-member of his own party is now responsible for attempting to segregate Taiwan from China.

china isn't really a pro communst rigime any more. they have like some type of free market and etc.

china isn't really a pro communst rigime any more. they have like some type of free market and etc.I'm not quite sure about that. At the moment they're proclaiming that Socialism is the bridge between Capitalism and Communism.

me i have a short answer. Yes i consider it a country because my parents are from taiwan. But i think that soon it will become part of china again so that nothing bad will happen

Taiwan is a country. It was a UN founding member. But I think in about 45 years, China and Taiwan will become one country again, similar to Texas becoming a part of USA (through an annex).

I believe the current political/social situation is ideal. China is becoming more open and income is going up. The people in Taiwan don't realize that it is slowly declining economically.

And I was born in Taiwan. :-)

Taiwan was a UN founding member? I'm very curious - can you provide us with more information on this claim?

China was one of the founding members before the commies took over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations

And since the old government fled to Taiwan, you could in that way say that Taiwan was actually the founding member. In fact, looking at it that way, Taiwan doesn't belong to China, China belongs to Taiwan. The commies stole it from the real government. =P

China was one of the founding members before the commies took over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_and_the_United_Nations

And since the old government fled to Taiwan, you could in that way say that Taiwan was actually the founding member. In fact, looking at it that way, Taiwan doesn't belong to China, China belongs to Taiwan. The commies stole it from the real government. =P So, specifically how did the commies stole China from the real government?

By building up an army and overthrowing the government?

How did the Commies manage to build up their army?

Gathering a bunch of people, obviously. Just like in Russia, and we all know how that ended.

How do you gather a bunch of people to overthrow the real government?

Stuff them with lies saying how bad the government is, promise them gold mountains, use them to overthrow the government and then surpress them.

Stuff them with lies saying how bad the government is, promise them gold mountains, use them to overthrow the government and then surpress them.What exactly were the lies about the government?

the kuomintong was not really that good either. So it's debatable if it were lies.

well let's put it plainly. taiwan thinks of itself as an independent country. china doesn't think so and it's officially part of china. inofficially, most people think of taiwan as a seperate country. like u can kind of tell if someone looks chinese or taiwanese. and people ask are u from taiwan or china?. so i reckon taiwan should officially be called a seperate country cause by society it is generally accpeted as such.
it's funny that i'm saying that cause i'm chinese. though i was born here.

Your "putting it plainly" is somehow void of logic. And it is your opinion. I have a few questions for the basis of your opinion. Here's the first one.

How do you know that most people think of Taiwan as a seperate country?

well as a chinese myself, i'd say people think taiwan as another coutry mainlyl because it's big enough to stand on it's own and it is not geographicly connected to china, but politically and economicly (okay i really can't spell today) even if taiwan does become a country of itself, it can't support itself. one example, every year the natural disasters cause alot, i really mean ALOT of damage to taiwan, and the funds mostly come from mainland china. if taiwan do stand for itself i really dont' think it can support itself, i think that's the main reason taiwan is still not a country by themself yet.. i live in canada. :lol:

Taiwan can easily take care of itself. It doesn't need China and China probably drains more money from Taiwan than they put in it. If they spent more money on it than they made they wouldn't mind it becoming independant, after all.

Taiwan can easily take care of itself. It doesn't need China and China probably drains more money from Taiwan than they put in it. If they spent more money on it than they made they wouldn't mind it becoming independant, after all. Like I said before, self-sufficiency has nothing to do with sovereignty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty).

Singapore is not self-sufficient, it relies heavily upon Malaysia and Indonesia for its supply of fresh water - and yet it is independent, because it has sovereignty over itself.

Also, the mainland has been investing alot more money into Hongkong and Macau, than what the mainland "drains" from them.

Even before Hong Kong reverted to Chinese administration on 1 July 1997, it had extensive trade and investment ties with China. Hong Kong has been further integrating its economy with China because China's growing openness to the world economy has made manufacturing in China much more cost effective. Hong Kong's reexport business to and from China is a major driver of growth. Although the Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) outbreak in 2003 also battered Hong Kong's economy, a solid rise in exports, a boom in tourism from the mainland because of China's easing of travel restrictions, and a return of consumer confidence resulted in the resumption of strong growth from late 2003 through 2005.

Macau's well-to-do economy has remained one of the most open in the world since its reversion to China in 1999. Apparel exports and tourism are mainstays of the economy. A rapid rise in the number of mainland visitors because of China's easing of travel restrictions, increased public works expenditures, and significant investment inflows associated with the liberalization of Macau's gaming industry drove the four-year recovery. The budget also returned to surplus since 2002 because of the surge in visitors from China and a hike in taxes on gambling profits, which generated about 70% of government revenue. The three companies awarded gambling licenses have pledged to invest $2.2 billion in the territory, which will boost GDP growth. The Closer Economic Partnership Agreement (CEPA) between Macau and mainland China that came into effect on 1 January 2004 offers many Macau-made products tariff-free access to the mainland, and the range of products covered by CEPA was expanded on 1 January 2005.

Lastly, last year, in 2005, the top 1000 Taiwan companies working in China profited in excess of $125 billion, constituting more than 30% of Taiwan's GDP (Taiwan's GDP of 2005 is $323 billion). How can you say that China is draining money away from Taiwan?

Taiwanese is basically chinese... they just call themselves Taiwanese because of
gorvernment issues...

EX:

Repulclins once had complete controll of us
Democrats drive them out...

Republicans live in hawai and want indepence.

just an ex dont go crazy on me please

^ yes they are however if you put it that way then by looking at history we could also say koreans are basically Chinese, Because like around 2 AD the Han Empire controlled all or most of Korea.

yet the koreans took it back or so becuase theres obviously korea today =P. its just as they said, taiwan was basically a place for refugees, but there were natives there. So it was kinda like america. refugees from china went to taiwan and took over and annexed the natives into their life. so technically taiwan wasn't a part of china, until the refugees took it over. the rest is as they said. Taiwan wants to be an individual country, but its like hawaii trying to break free.