Alright, so I've decided that we really should have a thread for advise and discussion on the Japanese language. However there are some very important ground rules that need to be laid out:


The point of this thread is not to randomly blabber in Japanese! This is stupid and doesn't help anyone out. So don't do it. Such posts will be deleted. Remember the rules of the forum on English posts, and this is no different except that it provides a place to learn.
Please provide a translation for anything said in Japanese. Saying something and not providing a translation isn't helping anyone either.
Unless you are discussing specifics of one of the sylabaries or Kanji, please use romaji only so that everyone can read it without any special character sets. Romaji is simply a representation of the sylables using the English alphabet, such as "watashi" (I, me).
If you are serious about learning Japanese, a forum is not going to help you. By far, the best way to learn is to take a course in the language. If this is not possible, at least find a professor to ask for advice on the best way to proceed. You will not learn Japanese by watching anime or playing games.


Happy learning, and if you have any questions about this please PM me.

I'll start with some very good advice I recieved from one of my friend who teaches Japanese on the kuru and iku following a -te verb:


If you put iku or kuru after a verb, it adds a sense of "motion" to the verb. -te iku is generally used to express things occuring in a way that makes them "move away" from the speaker, and -te kuru makes them sound as though they are "moving to" the speaker.

examples:
"CD wo katte iku", "I'll buy the CD (and then leave)"
"Shukudai wo shite, atarashii koto wo naratte kita", "I did my homework and learned something new"

In that second one, you could use "naratta" and it would mean the same thing, but the -te kuru makes it sound as though the knowledge "came to you" and stuck with you.

another example: "Ojiisan ga yuitte itta", "My grandfather died"

If you just said "yuita" it would mean the same thing but the -te iku makes it sound like he "went away" - it emphasizes that he's no longer with you

Nagareru is a great example... nagarete iku = flow away, nagarete kuru = flow towards

watashi wa ichigos.com no daisuki! <= confess your love this way in japanese.
:p
(i love ichigos.com)

That's incorrect. Now it says "I am ichigo's to love"

"No" indicates possession or a relation between two objects (SONY no Shain means "Employee of SONY corp.). The particle you need here is "ga" and you need to add the verb desu so the sentence would become "Watashi wa ichigos.com ga daisuki desu".

To go back to the basics, Japanese sentences follow a different structure than English sentences. This makes sense because there's no relation between the languages at all.

English: I am a student.
Japanese: 私は学生です。　(Watashi wa gakusei desu). Notice how the "Wa" particle is written with the hiragana "ha".

Watashi = I
wa = particle indicating subject
gakusei = student
desu = to be

In Japanese you don't have different verb forms like in English you have am, are etc. They do change when the time changes (was = deshita) and when the sentence becomes negative (ja arimasen) but we can always go into that later, let's not make it more complicated now ;)

Anyway, putting the English sentences next to the translated Japanese sentence:

I am a student
I student am

The verb always comes at the end in a Japanese sentence. If you want to add what university you're a student of you add that inbetween with "no". First you look at your school. In my case it's "南大学" (Southern University). What's my relation with that school? I am a student of that school. So I am part of the school. Whenever something's part of something big you write the big thing first (Minami daigaku) then "no" and then the other object you're speaking of (Minami daigaku no gakusei).

So our sentence becomes "私は南大学の学生です。" (watashi wa minami daigaku no gakusei desu)

About this no particle, you can use it until you get old.

ガンドさんの来週のよこ　かんおのコンサートのチケットは高いです。
Gandosan no raishuu no yoko kanno no konsaato no chiketto wa takai desu.
Gand's ticket for Yoko Kanno's concert of next week is expensive.

But that on a sidenote ;)

oh ya wrong use of particle lol. Should had used the ga(subject particle) instead of no(forms adjectives). Sumimasen ;;

ok I've started learning japanese and there's something that's confused me a little. to say something like Anata wa omoi desu means you are heavy. but yet I've seen omoi in loads of other sentences and it means something completely different. Anyone care to clear this up?

edit- sorry to break up the sentence I just said..... Anata- you, wa making the word before the topic of the sentence, omoi- heavy, desu- replaces a, is are etc

I'm not sure of the answer, but I have seen that a lot too, and it confuses me. Isn't Wednesday ashita? I thought I was, but someone told me that it meant bright.

Ashita means tomorrow or somthing to come, depending on how it's placed in a sentence and what particles are used.

Days are as follows


Monday Getsuyobi
Tuesday Kayobi
Wednesday Suiyobi
Thursday Mokuyobi
Friday Kinyobi
Saturday Doyobi
Sunday Nichiyobi

and for people that are more curious about dates, here are the months:



January Ichigatsu
Febuary Nigatsu
March Sangatsu
April Shigatsu
May Gogatsu
June Rokugatsu
July Shichigatsu
August Hachigatsu
September Kugatsu
October Jugatsu
November Juichigatsu
December Junigatsu

Looks a little similar to another list of things in Japanese (can anyone say japanese number followed by -gatsu?).

And I have no clue as to what the different uses of Omoi. I'm not a specialist of Japanese, but I do know the most basic of basics and have some good reference books to back up what I do write (Some odd 7 Japanese<->English Dictionary, and countless grammer books). I'm self taught, so I might not be the best authority here, but I'll certainly help when I can.

The omoi thing is easily explaned, Japanese has only about 64 different sounds. So after creating a good bunch of words, they're out of sounds and have to start recycling words. Kami for example can mean God, but it also means paper.

As for omoi:

http://www.jisho.org/index.pl?jap=omoi&eng=&dict=edict


January Ichigatsu
Febuary Nigatsu
March Sangatsu
April Shigatsu
May Gogatsu
June Rokugatsu
July Shichigatsu
August Hachigatsu
September Kugatsu
October Jugatsu
November Juichigatsu
December Junigatsu


In fact they just say the number of the month + gatsu (month). So...

ichigatsu = one month
nigatsu = two month
etc...

ichi = 1
ni = 2
san = 3
yon/shi = 4
go = 5
roku = 6
nana/shichi = 7
hachi = 8
ku/kyuu = 9
juu = 10

If you have twelve, you just say ten two: juuni

Twenty is two ten: nijuu

It's fairly simple, actually.

Omoi means all that :blink:

I think the reason you've heard "omoi" used so much is that, when used with a different kanji [思い], it means "to think." This has many uses; for example, if you were to put something into plain form, then say "~to omoimasu," then you're saying "I think that ~." As you can imagine, it's a pretty common thing to say. There're other uses as well, but I'm guessing that this is the most common, and what you've been hearing.

would Japanese people understand you if you switch their word order? examples instead of going noun adjective verb you went and say a sentence in noun verb adjective.(note i frequently make this mistake when speaking in Japanses. im a noob)

Well, now me you this sentance understand? I similar it would be suppose. However, no way of there is telling. It ambiguous is, you say wouldn't?

would Japanese people understand you if you switch their word order? examples instead of going noun adjective verb you went and say a sentence in noun verb adjective.(note i frequently make this mistake when speaking in Japanses. im a noob)

They would, but it silly sound would.

Could someone explain the differences between hiragana and katakana, and when each form is used? 'Cause I've often read in manga about people who write their name in katakana over hiragana because it 'looks nicer' - what's so nice about one over the other?

hirigana is for words used normally in Japan like stuff you see evryday(eventough most of this has been taken up by kanji) and katakana is for forign words like james, bank, sub atomic machine gun, and etc.

Actually that's not completely correct. Katakana is also used in everyday life for foreign words that have integrated into the Japanese langues (borrowed words). Pasocon (personal computer) for example is a Japanese word based on an English word so it's written in katakana. You can also use katakana to put more emphasis (sp) on a certain word, which often happens in manga.

hiragana= everyday "japanese" japanese words
katakana= words borrowed from other languages; for emphasis; and for onomatopoeia

Thanks for that! Now I know why they bold a lot of words in the translated manga :)

how do you say: everyone's gone but I am still here. in japanese?

hiragana= everyday "japanese" japanese words
katakana= words borrowed from other languages; for emphasis; and for onomatopoeia

hiragana also spells out the way the words sound.
katakana is.. uhm.. yes. borrowed words.
and kanji is traditional chinese characters


how do you say: everyone's gone but I am still here. in japanese?

i'm not sure but i think it's

minna wa iinai desu. demo, watashi wa iiru.

though it souinds better switched around.

watashi wa iiru desu, demo, minna wa innai

ok here's another. could someone tell me the differences in talking about yourself or about someone else. for example:

watashi wa, boku wa there was 1 more but i cant remember and for you there's anata wa, omai, and ki sama. the only 1 i know is that omai is when you are talking to someone lower than you so it could be offencive

"No" indicates possession or a relation between two objects (SONY no Shain means "Employee of SONY corp.). The particle you need here is "ga" and you need to add the verb desu so the sentence would become "Watashi wa ichigos.com ga daisuki desu".

My Japanese isn't very good, so I trust on this; but I have a question:

Why is it:

Watashi wa ichigos.com ga daisuki desu.

And not:

Watashi wa ichigos.com o daisuki desu.

I thought "ga" marks the subject, whereas "o" marks the object. And "ichigos" is the object of the sentence, isn't it?

Confused.

An article I wrote on Japanese Particles in the Casual Japanese Words Thread:

Noun/ Pronoun Particles

First thing is first. When writing a sentence, you must speak like Yoda. In English, sentence structure goes in Object-Verb-Subject form, but in Japanese is is Object-Subject-Verb. So think hard, you must! Or difficulty, it shall be!

Next let's look at some common particles (note: I have never seen a particle ever capitalized when written out in English, so I do not do so here, unless it begins a sentence; Some particles are interchangeable, and some can be used to form multi-meaning Puns, myself, I would stick to the basics for a while before attempting to play with the words being used):

A particle in Japanese is always following a noun or pronoun in the language, and shows the noun/ pronoun's purpose in the sentence (subject). Let's take the particle ga as an example. Ga indicates the subject of the sentence (when the subject is not omitted, which is very common when speaking, and then it is up to the listener to determine what the subject is).

Kore ga watashi no jusho~desu

The word kore is the subject (translates Lit. - This ga I no Address is/ This is my address), and, if you haven't already noticed, there was another particle in the sentence: no. No is a particle of a sentence that shows ownership. So in that sentence the speaker owns the address.

Next particle is wa. It comes after the subject of the sentence. It is used the same way ga is used, except it is used stressing a point of a sentence (a more direct way to say what the subject is).

Watashi wa kyoshi~desu

So this sentence emphasizes what the person is (translates Lit. - I wa teacher is/ I'm a teacher). So when you say this, you are, in a way, pointing at what you are.

Let's look at o now. O indicates the object of the sentence. So in the sentence:

Sushi o tabe~mashita.

The sushi is the object. (Translation Lit. - Sushi o eat-did/ I ate sushi)

Now let's go into a more complex particle. Ni can be used in four different ways:
1) Identify day/month/year -- Getsuyobi ni (Lit. - on Monday)
2) Time -- Goji ni (Lit. - at Five o'clock)
3) Location -- Mise ni (Lit. - In the shop)
4) Destination -- Eki ni (Lit. - To the station)

Another particle that points at location is the de particle. Very similar to ni, de can also express the act of doing something:

Iriguchi de -- (Lit - Entrance de/ at the entrance)
densha de iki~masu -- (Lit. - Train de go/ I'm going by train)

The last particle I will address is one that determines where what you are asking is a question or not. If you end a sentence in ka it will change your sentence into a question.

Wakari~masu -- (Lit. - (I) Understand.) Note: subject is missing so I placed it in there so that it made sense.
Wakari~masu ka -- (lit. - (Do you) Understand?) Note: same as above.

eigo ga hanase~mas (Lit. - English ga speak/ I speak English.)
eigo ga hanase~mas ka (Lit. - English ga speak ka/ Do you speak English)

========================

So to sumarize(sp?):

_-ga= Subject
_-wa= Enforced subject
_-no= To have ownership
_-o = Object
_-ni = day/month/year/location/destination
_-de = the act of doing ni or a substitute for ni
_-ka = to make statement into a question

Nice.

Ni is also used when meeting someone

Kazoku ni aimashita - I met my family


My Japanese isn't very good, so I trust on this; but I have a question:

Why is it:

Watashi wa ichigos.com ga daisuki desu.

And not:

Watashi wa ichigos.com o daisuki desu.

I thought "ga" marks the subject, whereas "o" marks the object. And "ichigos" is the object of the sentence, isn't it?

Confused.

For certain words like suki (like) and kirai (dislike) you use ga instead of o. Same with arimase (to have) or imasu (to have when referring to people and animals).

hiragana also spells out the way the words sound.
katakana is.. uhm.. yes. borrowed words.
and kanji is traditional chinese characters



i'm not sure but i think it's

minna wa iinai desu. demo, watashi wa iiru.

though it souinds better switched around.

watashi wa iiru desu, demo, minna wa innai

thnaks! :D

Nice.
For certain words like suki (like) and kirai (dislike) you use ga instead of o. Same with arimase (to have) or imasu (to have when referring to people and animals).

I thought it was motte imasu. sorry angie im still new to learnin japanese so obviously im gonna be questioning and picky at all the small things so i know about how to shorten sentences

What's motte imasu supposed to mean then?

And don't shorten sentences if you don't know what you're doing. In Japanese you can say "Baka desu" and "Baka da" which both means the same (da being the short version of desu) but da can only be used by males. There's a lot of spoken language in Japanese that's suitable for male speakers only, or for female speakers only. Be carefull because a guy saying "Atashi" instead of "Watashi" would sound very girly, same with girls saying "boku" or "ore". They all mean "I" but atashi is only used by girls, boku by young boys or tomboys and ore by men. And there are many more like these. I believe "I" has 15 or so different words in Japanese.

ahhh thank you thank you.

in my learning japanese cd rom to save stuff like..... I have a black cat would be translated as Watashi wa kuroi neko o motte imasu to say i want a black cat would be watashi wa kuroi neko o hoshi desu. Which is why when you said imasu on its own I wasn't sure what the motte was there for

So to sumarize(sp?):

_-ga= Subject
_-wa= Enforced subject
_-no= To have ownership
_-o = Object
_-ni = day/month/year/location/destination
_-de = the act of doing ni or a substute for ni
_-ka = to make statment into a question

... to put it simpler

_-ga= about
_-wa= is
_-no= of
_-o = Object
_-ni = day/month/year/location/destination
_-de = the act of doing ni or a substute for ni
_-ka = to make statment into a question <-- seen at the end of the question as is "o-genki desu ka?"

AND desu - used like a "to be" verb in french. <-- dunno how to explain that very well.. help?

I like M's list better than yours. You translate some particles to English words which is just wrong. "no" doesn't mean "of", it can be used in that context. That's quite a difference.

For certain words like suki (like) and kirai (dislike) you use ga instead of o. Same with arimase (to have) or imasu (to have when referring to people and animals).

Ah, I see. It's an exception, depending on the verb. Thanks. :)

I like M's list better than yours. You translate some particles to English words which is just wrong. "no" doesn't mean "of", it can be used in that context. That's quite a difference.
are all admins blunt and mean?...

anyways, it's basically of. give the dumb people a break. (like me) -_-

What's mean about stating my opinion? I just think he has a better list, that's all. No need to get all offended by it.

イチゴフォワム　わ　サイコー！！！！！<ichigo forum is awesome!

........or something like that...sorry i havn't spoken for a long time

wouldnt ichigos be a kanji? in stead of katakana?

or even hiragana?

iv had that question myself... if i right my name 'toki' in jap.. would i use hiragana or katakana?
well i use katakana but my friends say i should use hiragana... but.. i dont really care because its not like im ever really gonna right it anywhere...

I think Ichigo (the strawberry) is in hiragana, いちご.

On a related note, I start my 16-week Japanese class on Tuesday, yay :D

Um...how do you say 'feather' in Japanese XD Or could I just use 'tsubasa'? (I believe that's 'wing')

Wait, I always thought at least one translation of 'no' means 'of', or basically a possessive (like 's). Hm.

I think Ichigo (the strawberry) is in hiragana, いちご.

On a related note, I start my 16-week Japanese class on Tuesday, yay :D

When it's used as a name you can put it in katakana though.

Feather= Hane. (pronounced ha-nay)

I can't figure out what's wrong with me Japanese language entry support, so I cannot provide the Kanji for ya.

Hane is not pronounced ha-nay. Ha-nay would be more like hanai or something.

The ne in hane rhymes with "heh"

*stabs self with fork* See what happens when you self study a language...

It's hard for English people to learn proper Japanese. They don't even have a good "U" sound. The closest would be something like the ou in you, but that's still far from being correct.

haha i seem to be doing alright. I watched anime for years and started picking up words and phrases then I started learning the language and I was already used to the pronounciation (sp?)

but what's kanji and all the others. I thought japanese was simply japanese and not split into something else???

Bump.

Probably just because it sounds cute, nothing else.

@Sephi:

Japanese is Japanese. However, three writing systems are used:

Hiragana: This is used for normal Japanese words, particles and a lot of other things. If you know hiragana you can write complete Japanese texts. This would be confusing though, since a lot of Japanese words have several meanings. Every hiragana symbol represents one sound (A,I,U,E,O,KA,KI,KU,KE etc etc..)

Katakana: This is a system that works the same as hiragana (every sound has a symbol) but it's commonly used for foreign words such as words borrowed from English. Foreign names are always written in katakana. It can also be used for Japanese words to make them stand out. In manga exclamations are often written in katakana, rather than hiragana.

Kanji: Taken from the Chinese, the kanji are the symbols that everyone loves *cough not cough*. Japanese has 1945 kanji taken from Chinese that are used in daily life (there are more but they always come with hiragana reading on top of them when you have a newspaper or something). Every kanji represents a word or a part of a word, but they all mean something.

Romaji: baka (idiot)
Hiragana:ばか
Katakana:バカ
Kanji:馬鹿

Romaji: Kaishain (Company employee)
Hiragana:かいしゃいん
Katakana:カイシャイン
Kanji:会社員

*bump* I knew it didn't just disappear on me!

I asked our teacher this past week to explain what the -ru is after -te verbs. I learned that -ru after -te is simply the plain form of the present progressive form, -te imasu. -te imasu means progressive or a state of being, similar to adding -ing in english.

For example:
べんきょうする - to study
べんきょうします - I study (polite present form)
べんきょうしています - I am studying (polite present progressive)
べんきょうしてる - I am studying (plain present progressive)

Either of those -te forms could also mean "I am currently in the state of studying (such as going to school for a degree)".

You probably hear "nani wo shiteru?!" 「なにをしてる」 in anime somtimes. It means "what are you doing?" nani (what) wo (direct object marker) shite (-te form of suru, do to) -ru (plain form of imasu)

I love those moments where things that I've been wondering about suddenly click and make sense :)

There's formal and informal Japanese (I'm not sure if anyone mentioned it)

Usually, the japanese u hear in the anime is USUALLY informal, and i BELIEVE that most conversations now use informal...for example

Benkyou shimasen = neg. form "to study" in formal
Bekyou shinai = neg. form "to study" in informal....

Something like that.

Omoshironakatta....lol

Something that I've always wondered: When writing in japanese do you space between words, or just keep on writing (other than the whole spacebar to select the approprate kanji thing)? Also do you include a space inbetween particles?

For example is it (they all translate to a rough way of saying 'I congradulate you' even though there's another word that summerizes this entire phrase--I think):

祝いわたしわあなた

or

祝　い　わたし ゎ　あなた

or

祝い　私ゎ　あなた

when writing?

I never really put spaces between words, never see it in Japanese text either. Usually there's enough kanji to prevent confusion anyway.

Can I ask, whats better to learn from. Rosettastone or Pimsleur? And do they teach you to write?

I really wnat to learn the language. I hear its better to start young. (Is 14 young?).

And does anyone around wembley in england, london, know of any japanese lessons to take?

Oh and will speaking arabic help at all? (doubt it though)

I really want to learn the language because i want to go to japan soon but also because i want something to do.

Usually there's enough kanji to prevent confusion anyway.


haha, that's usually what causes confusion for me. i just need to study harder

Can I ask, whats better to learn from. Rosettastone or Pimsleur? And do they teach you to write?

I really wnat to learn the language. I hear its better to start young. (Is 14 young?).

And does anyone around wembley in england, london, know of any japanese lessons to take?

Oh and will speaking arabic help at all? (doubt it though)

I really want to learn the language because i want to go to japan soon but also because i want something to do.most programs with audio should be considered above all others. Learning the correct accent helps wonderfully. Try finding a program with each character of the alphabet separately pronounced so you can just keep repeating the sounds. YOu should probably try learning a bit of conversation before trying to write (it can get very complex^.^

Is it true though thet you cant speak fluently unless you get lessons. Otherwise i need to find a job.

Also i only started learning a few seconds ago, and i want to ask, why in english do they write desu when all they say is dess?

Also what does O- genki desu ka mean. I know it means how are you but what does each individual word mean.

(Self teaching is rubbish, theres no one pushing you to go further and no where to practice.)

^You must, I repeat, MUST get lessons if you want to speak Japanese. I've tried for so long to do it without lessons (7 years to be exact). And a good comparison of abilities is Myself (home taught) vs. Angelic (classroom taught).

U's in japanese are a false letter meaning they don't really have a pronoucation (though I'm begining to doubt what I read, how I've heard Us being pronounced in quite a few animes. Then again, that's anime and not dialect). My pronouncation guide says you should pronouce the U's as you do in words like put (for short) or Moon (for long).

o genki desu ka.

Genki=energy (in this case)
desu=be
ka=?
o=signifies the object of a sentence.

So the literal translation is "Feeling be?" (Energy translates to Feeling given the situation the speaker is in)
Which if translated means "How are [you] feeling?"

That's the best I can do for this.

Damn, I need to find lessons. Does anyone living around wembley know of any places for lessons?

Damn, I need to find lessons. Does anyone living around wembley know of any places for lessons?
I'd recommend community college (or whatever the UK equivalent is). I'm taking a Japanese 1 class at Pasadena City College.

Self teaching won't help you much with your conversation skill. In fact, you probably wouldn't be very fluent at all. Also, anime is a horrible source because you'll pick up a lot of bad habits that could even cause people to laugh at you (believe me, it happened one or two times to me).

but would self teaching teach you grammar?

Not very well.

I think it would, but knowing the mechanics of grammar without taking a class to practice and get feedback won't help you at all. I self-studied for a while, which did really help to learn the grammar, so I had a leg-up when I started the class. Studying the grammar *was* helpful, but it's pointless if you can't use it.

http://www.sabotenweb.com/bookmarks/language.html

If you actually wanted to learn the language, you pro'lly know of this site (seeing how it is the first entry that pops up in google when you type in Japanese Learning), but it should be mentioned none-the-less.

It's a excellent source of information, if you cannot do the class.

Thanks a lot mies

i've been told pimsleur's japanese lessons work some magic too...but they cost some money to buy...if u want the free route i know some people have said there are torrents for the files if you look for em

(bwhaha reviving the japanese thread)

any one heard of yes japanese or whatever that website is called for just learning really basic japanese?

I am currently writing with a japanese "pen-pal", and would appreciate if anyone could provide me with the furigana for the following japanese kanji (some will be provided in the actual sentence so the accurate furigana can be provided):

お返事ありがとう

名前

上手

日本に来たことはある (I know the first one is Japan)

音楽きく

I would appreciate any help offered.

お返事ありがとう　－ おへんじありがとう

名前　－　なまえ

上手　－　じょうず

日本に来たことはある　－にほんにきたことはある

音楽きく　ー　おんがくきく

Lol, all the Japanese text is question marks but the う...

Can someone direct me to a place where I can download the text thingy?

You have to install Japanese Text support via the Language Options tab in Windows.

Tutorial here (http://newton.uor.edu/Departments&Programs/AsianStudiesDept/Language/asianlanguageinstallation_XP.html)

Ehh, never mind. To lazy to read that stuff.

*will have my brother do it..*

お返事ありがとう　－ おへんじありがとう

名前　－　なまえ

上手　－　じょうず

日本に来たことはある　－にほんにきたことはある

音楽きく　ー　おんがくきく

Thanks a lot! That really helped out.

Eh.... I have one question. What is the difference between 'wo' and 'no'?

*can't find the difference* And does anybody know where I can get the Japanese typing program. o_o I have a language bar and a writing tablet, but the tablet has some issues because it read Chinese and Japanese. On top of all that, there's English too, dakara.... onegai shimasu~~~

http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~grosenth/jwpce.html
Was useful for a while, but clashes with different hiragana/katakana fonts. Kind of an old look ui
http://voyager.dvc.edu/~nsatake/jwp_site.htm
has not has as many comprehensive updates...
Nj has theirs... but I think it's for sale instead of freeware now.

It think you're asking about particles...
Wo can be used as a replacement for O in romaji. so for actions is what I think you're saying... so it just marks the direct object.
but No is a particle used only for directing from a noun reference.

Check the first or second page. I made a nice post on Particles.

http://forums.ichigos.com/showpost.php?p=219962&postcount=24

Oh and Open office is multilingual with support for japanese
http://projects.openoffice.org/native-lang.html

Most programs do have unicode (japanese in this case) support. You just need to enable Japanese input (http://newton.uor.edu/Departments&Programs/AsianStudiesDept/Language/asianlanguageinstallation_XP.html). Basically it's a hit and miss. Sometimes the editors'll say right on them "Unicode Support". If they say that, you can type japanese in them. If not, still give it a shot. It might just work.

and don't forget only certain western fonts support japanese uni. as I learned yesterday.

Check the first or second page. I made a nice post on Particles.

http://forums.ichigos.com/showpost.php?p=219962&postcount=24

Note on that post: English = eigo.

He's writing it phonetically. =D
Makes it easier. Thus the lack of silent u's and i's

Then it's still incorrect. Eigo is pronounced differently from ego.

Fixed =.=

I know this is old, but:


^You must, I repeat, MUST get lessons if you want to speak Japanese. I've tried for so long to do it without lessons (7 years to be exact). And a good comparison of abilities is Myself (home taught) vs. Angelic (classroom taught).

U's in japanese are a false letter meaning they don't really have a pronoucation (though I'm begining to doubt what I read, how I've heard Us being pronounced in quite a few animes. Then again, that's anime and not dialect). My pronouncation guide says you should pronouce the U's as you do in words like put (for short) or Moon (for long).

o genki desu ka.

Genki=energy (in this case)
desu=be
ka=?
o=signifies the object of a sentence.

So the literal translation is "Feeling be?" (Energy translates to Feeling given the situation the speaker is in)
Which if translated means "How are [you] feeling?"

That's the best I can do for this.

With U's, I always thought that you pronounced it so fast that the U's just sort of blend in with the rest of the syllables. (I'm a Japanese n00b, too) (try saying it. I use our favorite anime character for example: Sasuke! Say "Sasuke" slowly, saying all the letters clearly. Then speed it up to normal conversation speed. The U's kind of blend in with s and make somthing that sounds like: Saske.)

I also have a question. I completed the greetings lesson in my program and was wondering. What time is it good to start using Kombanwa (Good Evening) as opposed to
Konichiwa (hello, good afternoon)
The translations are just what my program says. If they're wrong, please tell me so that I can dump the program and find something different.

I know this is old, but:



With U's, I always thought that you pronounced it so fast that the U's just sort of blend in with the rest of the syllables. (I'm a Japanese n00b, too) (try saying it. I use our favorite anime character for example: Sasuke! Say "Sasuke" slowly, saying all the letters clearly. Then speed it up to normal conversation speed. The U's kind of blend in with s and make somthing that sounds like: Saske.)

I also have a question. I completed the greetings lesson in my program and was wondering. What time is it good to start using Kombanwa (Good Evening) as opposed to
Konichiwa (hello, good afternoon)
The translations are just what my program says. If they're wrong, please tell me so that I can dump the program and find something different.

Sometimes this goes, sometimes it doesn't. Try saying Bunta without the u.

Ah. Thanks

Bokuwa winter desu. ima jyunichijihandesu. Gakogaamarisukijyanai

Thats about the most useful sentence in japanese!
gakogaamarisukijyanai!

If you guys want to learn japanese Id recomend learning the hiragana chart first.
If you keep learning japanese in romanji you are going to have bad pronunciation
because in romanji there is no chi sai tsu.

I know a good site for you people that want to learn japanese and the practice
your verb forms and such. go to portaportal.com and type in murphy.sensei on the
guest access. From there you can find a whole bunch of japanese learning sites.
However remember that to learn japanese with good form you need a good teacher.
With bad pronunciation you could really mess up on your japanese. like kiitekudasai
and kitekudasai. they mean completly different things! dont be lazy on your pronunciation
practice slow.

Jyamata! (bye)

Erm, in romaji there is chi, sai and tsu. See? I just posted them. I'll do it again to make it clear: chi, sai, tsu.

And, your romajisation is wrong. It's じゃまった(ja matta), not jyamata. Fully written it could be じゃまったあした(ja matta ashita) (see you tomorrow) or じゃまったあとで(ja matta ato de) (see you sometime later). Same for juunichijihan. And it is:　学校があまり好きじゃない (gakkou ga amari suki ja nai).

Erm, in romaji there is chi, sai and tsu. See? I just posted them.
lol, I was going to say the same thing.
It's possible to make all the hiragana sounds using romaji, plus more. You don't need to know any hiragana at all to pronounce Japanese correctly. > <

lol look at the hiragana chart. ja matta doesnt really make sense because in jyamata you got ma and ta. what you are saying is matta which doesnt exist. mata makes sense because I didnt add that funky extra t. there is no hiragana for just t. you dont know what chi sai tsu is? its the pauses and sincopations (i probably spelt that wrong) in the words in japanese.
in gako the kanji is just ga and ko. i dont know where in the heck you got the gakou. If it was like that the kanji configuration would be all wrong. Sorry but it doesnt make sense.
You have to use chi sai tsu for time. juunichijihan does not equal jyunichijihan. Otherwise the kanji is lying to me and Im pretty sure that they arnt. Angelic where are you learning this stuff.....you cant learn japanese well off the net. Take some courses and learn some hiragana. shyoganai...........

I think you need to learn how to space out your romanji first before suggesting how to do improper Japanese.

@winterwind: Angelic is classroom taught. M says so Here (http://forums.ichigos.com/showpost.php?p=241862&postcount=57) Of course, you could always ask him. And some general forum advice: Unless it's a horribly long thread (which this isn't) you should read the entire thread before you post. If you do so in a thread like this, your question may be answered before you even ask.

On topic: Can Ichigo be strawberry and the number 15?

lol I was asking no questions and gosh darnit for the last time M you dont have to space out your romanji.

lol look at the hiragana chart. ja matta doesnt really make sense because in jyamata you got ma and ta. what you are saying is matta which doesnt exist. mata makes sense because I didnt add that funky extra t. there is no hiragana for just t. you dont know what chi sai tsu is? its the pauses and sincopations (i probably spelt that wrong) in the words in japanese.
in gako the kanji is just ga and ko. i dont know where in the heck you got the gakou. If it was like that the kanji configuration would be all wrong. Sorry but it doesnt make sense.
You have to use chi sai tsu for time. juunichijihan does not equal jyunichijihan. Otherwise the kanji is lying to me and Im pretty sure that they arnt. Angelic where are you learning this stuff.....you cant learn japanese well off the net. Take some courses and learn some hiragana. shyoganai...........

the kanji for gakou mean ga and kou. Yes, kanji can be written als more hiragana. Car = kuruma(くるま), but it's one kanji (車). How can matta not excist? じゃ　まった < Note the little tsu (つ）between ma (ま) and ta (た). That's what makes it matta. Ja (じゃ）should be on every large kana chart. You probably only know the basic ones. Look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiragana) for a complete one.

If you still think you're right and I'm wrong, please stop claiming you know how to read and/or write Japanese, because you obviously can't.

@Isantop: ichgo go would be one five, fifteen would be juugo.

Can anyone of the more advanced Japanese speakers tell me the difference of the base 1 verb endings (sometimes called the "Negative Base")
-nakattara
-nakereba?
Both are conditional negatives and -nakattara can also be used as past (If/when [I] don't/didn't) whereas -nakereba can only be used in present or future...are there any rules when to use them in present or do you just randomly pick one?

Although i can't fully answer your question, I can tell you that almost no languages have situations where you just "randomly pick one". There's alway rules that tell which to use. However, I'm not sure on Japanese. It may be one of the ones left out by this.

I can tell you that almost no languages have situations where you just "randomly pick one".
Ofcourse there are situations where you just "randomly pick one" :O Most of the time it's just a matter of style and such what makes you choose one word over another, not rules. Though I'm not sure in this case :\

Can anyone of the more advanced Japanese speakers tell me the difference of the base 1 verb endings (sometimes called the "Negative Base")
-nakattara
-nakereba?
Both are conditional negatives and -nakattara can also be used as past (If/when [I] don't/didn't) whereas -nakereba can only be used in present or future...are there any rules when to use them in present or do you just randomly pick one?

I think nakattara would be "if this, then that", while nakereba is used in -nakereba narimasen, which means "must" or "have to"

uchi he ikanakattara, bangohan wo taberu koto ga dekimasu (if I went home, I would be able to eat dinner)
uchi he ikanakereba narimasen. bangohan wo tabenakereba narimasenkara (I have to go home, because I have to eat dinner).

I'm not completely sure about this though, this part of the grammar's gotten a bit rusty :heh:

No, I'm pretty sure that's right, at least from the way I speak it... or maybe I just speak it badly xD

thanks for the answer Angelic ^_^ heh, it seems like there are often two or more ways to say something in Japanese... it's really confusing sometimes

You have to remeber; Japanese is an oriental language, not occidental like English or Spanish.

Example:
Spanish= Soy el hijo de mis padres.
Translation= I'm my parents son.
Transliteration= I am the son of my parents.

So the grammar is a bit different, but the basic idea gets across. With Japanese, however, the grammar is totally different from any occidental language; German, Spanish, Dutch, Italian, even Latin or Greek.

Off topic, sort of, but I had to get that out.

Maybe a little off of what ya'll are talking about, but I've been to many "translator" websites, and it keeps coming up the same thing for my first name, Seth.

Their translations :

http://www.stockkanji.com/Names+in+Japanese/Names+S/Seth.htm

Here's the one I "liked" the most. It's the correct version of my name (appointed one).

~~

Just wondering if people who know the language can approve of this.

it depends on what syllable you use to represent the "th" as there is no such combination in the Japanese language. "Su" is sometimes used in the katakana-version of English words, so the suggestion of that translation site sounds ok to me.

In Hellsing "Seth" is translated as Setto (セット)

:heh: Like from Yu-Gi-Oh? Lol..

That seems right. Google translates it to "Set" and since there is no standalone "h" that I'm aware of (keep in mind that i'm still a n00b) I think it'd be right. Sesu seems a bit off...

Well, it depends on interpretation really. Japanese doesn't have the TH sound like in English, so they might try to find something that sounds close to it. Then they'd likely come up with Sessu (pronounce Sess).

hey guys! i have to do an assignment in japanese and i was looking for some pointers to help me out. im not asking you to do my homework for me, just a few tips here and there or something.

I wrote in parenthesis what i meant, since it is most likely not what i wrote in Japanese.

Watashi no sakunen no natsu-yasumi (My last summer vacation).

Watashino sakunen no natsu-yasumi o omoshiroi deshita (My last summer vacation was interesting). Watashi ha takusan o nemashita (I slept a lot). Watashi ha shigoto o sagemashita (I looked for a job). Watashi ha omoshiroi ha hon yomimashita (I read interesting books). Shukudai dewa arimasen deshita (I didn't do homework), yukai na koto deshita (I had fun!)! Oji-san no koya ni imashita (I went to my uncle's cottage). Watashi no kafunshou o deshita(I had hay fever!)!. Watashi ha eiga o mimashita. Soko e shizuka deshita (It was very peaceful there). Watashi ni kawa o oyogimashita (i swam in the river).

feel free to laugh, this will probably be very funny if you know japanese very well. i dont, so i barely have any idea of what im saying.

I assume with sakunen you're talking about last year (so litt: my last year's summer vacation). I'd personally use kyonen, but that's probably because that's what I learnt.

when writing, make sure to write the particles properly. So "o" should be written "wo" and "wa" should be written "ha". If you're gonna keep this in romaji then don't mind.

The "o" particle in the first sentence should be a "wa" since your summer vacation is the subject. Past time of omoshiroi desu is omoshirokatta desu.

According to my dictionary "to search" is "sagasu", so in the form you're using it that would be "sagashimashita".

It's "watashi ha omoshiroi hon wo yomimashita"

"Shukudai wo shimasendeshita"

I don't know about your phrase "yukai na koto deshita", but "tanoshikata desu" also means "I had fun"

And keep working on those particles, you make a lot of mistakes with ha and wo (watashi HA kafunshou) and in this case it's probably to have, so arimasu (watashi ha kafunshou ga arimashita).

Soko should be asoko (koko = here, soko = over there with you, asoko = over there far away from us). Asoko ha shizuka deshita.

Watashi ha kawa de oyogimashita (particle de indicates that in the location before it you perform the action that's behind it).

========

That's about all I can do for you. Keep in mind I'm only a first year student and my Japanese has gotten a little bit rusty :lol:

Still, stuff like this is good exercise for me, haha.

Watashi ha takusan o nemashita (I slept a lot).
I don't think there should be a "wo" particle there? Because "takusan" is not an object that is being acted upon.


Oji-san no koya ni imashita (I went to my uncle's cottage).
"Imasu" is "to be", "ikimasu" is "to go". So you want "ikimashita".


Soko e shizuka deshita (It was very peaceful there).
Angelic said to use "asoko", but I thought that was for pointing out things, not places. In this case, I would have said "Shizukana tokoro deshita" (It was a peaceful place).


I don't know about your phrase "yukai na koto deshita", but "tanoshikata desu" also means "I had fun"

I know you've had more tuition in Japanese than I have, but I don't think that's right either, lol. "Tanoshikata desu" means "it was fun". "Tanoshii" is an adjective, so it is describing something. In this case, it sounds like the act of not doing homework was fun. I don't know how to say "I had fun", but you could say you did something else and then say it was fun.

Again, like Angelic, I'm no expert at Japanese ^^ I agree that you need to fix your "ha" and "wo" particles. Remember:

"Ha" is used for subject of the sentence, ie. the thing you are talking about. Eg.

Watashi ha igirisu-jin desu. (I am an English person. - Talking about myself)
Michael Jackson ha yumeina hito desu. (Michael Jackson is a famous person. - Talking about MJ)

"Wo" is used for the object, ie. the thing that is being acted upon. Eg.

Pan wo tabemasu. ([I] eat bread - the bread is the thing being eaten)
Eiga wo mimasu. ([I] watch a film - the film is the thing being watched)

And then combining the two, whee ~

Watashi ha eiga wo mimasu. (I watched a film - Talking about myself, and the film is the thing I am watching)

Hope that makes sense...!

i used my japanese/english dictionary a lot and i still dont really know how to use particles well. i never heard of using "kata" to make stuff past tence (im taking classes but im just a beginner) and my dictionary doest show conjugations. ouchies. translation is basically word for word, with only basic understanding of sentence structure, minimal understanding of syntaxe and grammar, almost no vocabulary and six hours of sleep.

thanks guys i learned a lot. *praise praise*

i never heard of using "kata" to make stuff past tence

Yeah.. you can't really translate things word for word from English to Japanese, because the language structures are quite different, hehe.
The "kata" you're talking about is for adjectives. You probably know about the present, past, negative and past-negative forms of verbs (for desu and -masu form). Adjectives also get their own tenses as well which doesn't happen in English. It's not that difficult, although you have to know what -i and -na adjectives are first.

I know you've had more tuition in Japanese than I have, but I don't think that's right either, lol. "Tanoshikata desu" means "it was fun". "Tanoshii" is an adjective, so it is describing something. In this case, it sounds like the act of not doing homework was fun. I don't know how to say "I had fun", but you could say you did something else and then say it was fun.


Then you could make it "yasumi ha tanoshikata desu. (my vacation was fun)

ok question i know all the meaning behind san, sama chan kun etc. . . . i've been watching sekirei and now there's the term tan??? please explain

They're honoraries, similar to Mr, Mrs, and Dr. Japan just has a few more with a little more meaning behind them. Here's a list of the mostly used honoraries with a general breakdown of what they mean and what to think about when considering their use:

Formal
These are honoraries that should be used when in a business-like environment, talking about your elders, and people in high power. If you respect someone personally, you should also use one of the following.

In addition to these suffixes, there's also the option of proceeding the entire name with an 'O' to show even higher honor. O Tanda-sama, O takun-shi, et cetera. This practice has slowed with time, but is still recognized, and is sometimes combined with informal words to offer humor, for example O baka-sama.

shi -- Used when you're unfamiliar with the person, almost always used in written form. This was also used as a honorary for shamen.
sama -- Important figure, a way of giving high honor.
dono -- Similar to sama, but has almost vanished in Japanese culture. It is written as either "lord" or "master" so think of it that way.
ue -- Old japanese meaning "above". It's a similar to sama, but is a little more informal. It was commonly used to refer to one's family (hahaue, aniue)

san -- Everyone except for important figures to the population or to yourself.
senpai -- meaning "superior" senpai is almost always used when referring to someone higher than you in a particular subject, such as high school or in profession. This can also be used to mean mentor.
kouhai -- if you are called as senpai and you accept the fact that they are honoring you, you should call the person honoring you with kouhai.

sensei -- Literally means "teacher", this is a suffix for scholars, educators, mentors, historians, and writers.
kyoushi -- a softer suffix for sensei typically used by students under the teacher.

ka -- usually when a name ends in ka, it means that they are experts or trained (mangaka, joudouka). This rarely ends names.
hikoku -- suffix used for criminals. You can refer to criminals without any honorary.

Informal
These are typically used for people you see in day-to-day life and you know a little more than their name. You should start with san, and wait for the other person to give signs that it's okay to refer to them with a different honorary.

kun -- Informal way of referring to a male friend or a work colleague of either sex.
chan -- lowest of the informal ways to refer to someone, using chan usually means you are extremely close to the person, a childhood friend. Chan can also be used for females as kun is for males.

Age
all of these are suffixes that proceeds other honorary suffixes. Adding these in with formal suffixes tends to keep politeness, but also shows slight informality.

oyaji -- refers to old man
obaba -- refers to old woman (the proceeding o can be removed as a way to make this be rude)
oji -- middle aged man
oba -- middle aged woman
onii -- man similar to your age or less
onee -- woman similar to your age or less

Conventional
All the below are corruptions of the words above and should not be used unless you are close friends. If you are greeting a taoist master, I wouldn't recommend you say his name with "chi" instead of "shi".

chi -- a corruption on shi
chama -- playful way of saying sama.
tan -- a slur on chan typically made by children
ran -- a slur on chan
chin -- intentional corruption on chan used to make it sound "cuter".

lol thanks for clearing that up. quite educational

O_o; Took a year to reply back. Man Sephiroth, you're patient!

O_o; Took a year to reply back. Man Sephiroth, you're patient!
I know, what the hell? XD
I should start learning Japanese. It'll be a big project, but you have to start big projects some time, I guess.
Edit: Why isn't this closed? Angelic just "No reason to revive old threads"'d the RanT thread, but this one somehow survives?
Weird...

I know, what the hell? XD
I should start learning Japanese. It'll be a big project, but you have to start big projects some time, I guess.
Edit: Why isn't this closed? Angelic just "No reason to revive old threads"'d the RanT thread, but this one somehow survives?
Weird...

Cuz my RanT thread was revived by something off topic in the lines of "we need another RanT" while as M's post actually is on topic.

Learning Jap won't take that long, just going through the oooooooold thread I saw Angelic say "I don't know Jap for jack" in 2004 and in 2007 he's already teaching everyone else grammar XD

Which goes.. crap it's been 4 whole years since I last attended formal education in Japanese. Funnier though, reading novels teaches me more these days.

I would help you guys in Japanese, German, Korean, and French, but you have to do something for me first. :)

Giggedy Giggedy :)

i havent touched any Japanese since my exam in June x_x

i emailed my teacher yesterday just keeping in touch and stuff, and im forgetting kanji already.

i can see myself going back to a state of being able speak it but not to write it. which yeah isnt that bad a thing cos the main purpose of a language is to speak, but even so... i think i need to start working on it again. its not like im overly bogged down with uni anyway im only a first year lol

^ At least you had a proper class. I taught everything to myself through books.

O_o; Took a year to reply back. Man Sephiroth, you're patient!

Lol, no, Sephi's question was posted in the GC topic.

@Hopeless: this topic actually has something useful about it, unlike most topics in the pub.

boku no pantsu no naka ni densha ga aru ;) Best pick-up phrase ever. ;)
ぼくのパンツの中に電車がある。

Holy shit, it's Noir!
I haven't seen you in...forever!

boku no pantsu no naka ni densha ga aru ;) Best pick-up phrase ever. ;)
ぼくのパンツの中に電車がある。

"I have a train inside my pants" :huh: right :eyebrow:

Yes =) 100% success rate if said properly with a cute smile and with a sense of humour. It might not be a good japanese lesson, but it might land you a japanese girlfriend, which in turn will improve your language skills considerably.

It'll probably get you a lot of giggles and the girls will instantly stop taking you seriously.

So far it works pretty well. In my experience japanese girls (not all) are extremely shy when it comes to meeting strangers, and after you notice them making eyes at you but are clearly too shy to make a first line, opening with this in an izakaya or wherever you may be will break the ice and start up real conversations ;P

caution: don't use on existing japanese girlfriends. works opposite

Also... Dating ('http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO5IDiYPXPo')
It only works if you say it and then look away X3