I'm having trouble choosing between a Creative Zen Vision:M (http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Zen-Vision-Video-Player/dp/B000CS7UEY/ref=sr_1_28/104-9398748-3777568?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1184086025&sr=1-28) or Archos 404 (http://www.amazon.com/Archos-Portable-Digital-Player-500868/dp/B000HAVWX2/ref=sr_1_25/104-9398748-3777568?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1184197797&sr=1-25). Both have good reviews [Cnet gives a thumbs up to both], 30 GB and I can't find a really big flaw in either from what I see.

I am looking for something for the music play back functionality, so the Creative seems so obvious, but the Archos has the video and camera functionality which is just nice to have, though the camera being gimmicky at 1.3 mp but its still nice to have.

So from a technical point of veiw, and personal, which would you pick?

iAudio X5 (http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/iaudio/x5/). The X5L version has an extra 4 or so more hours of playback. Out of all the media players I've seen out there, this one successfully finds a solace between video player and audio player.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1833882,00.asp
http://dapreview.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.201
http://iaudiophile.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.24
http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/23/cowon-iaudio-x5-reviewed/

Why does everything need a freaking "i" before it nowadays? And that looks like a pretty nice mp3 player. I'd happily take it over the iPod if I had the money for either.

That iAudio X5 that M mentioned sounds amazing. <3

Anyways, I'm not sure if this is going to help you out at all, but here goes!

I've heard numerous complaints about Creative's mp3 players--issues with freezing, failing to connect with the computer, etc. While I don't own a Zen Vision, I do have a MicroPhoto, and I can attest to Creative's unreliability. I can't say much about the notoriously bad customer service, as I've never called in. ^_~

So yeah. It took me forever to get my player hooked up correctly (the USB cord that came with the unit didn't work, so I ended up using my own. I also ended up having to use the USB port in the back of the computer rather than the front), and I still have to unplug and replug my player several times in order to get the computer to recognize it. However, this may be an issue with my computer rather than the player itself, so meeh~ Well, in addition to the connection issues, my player freezes up a lot--namely after I load new music.

Despite these setbacks, I do love my Creative and would choose one over an iPod any day. ^_~ But then again, I don't go crazy when electronics work, so I don't get too annoyed when I have to deal with my Creative's issues. Perhaps a less patient person would pass up on a Creative product, but oh well.
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Oh, and have you actually seen a Zen Vision:M up close? You've probably heard that the player is a tad bulky. Well, it really is. But if the interface is anything like that of the MicroPhoto, then <3! So while it may sound like I'm complete trash-talking Creative, I'm really not. In fact, I'm thinking of getting a Zen Sleek Photo next. Just don't be too surprised if you run into any issues, as they're quite common.

Hmmm....my first mp3 ever was a creative I think. But that was waaaaaaaaaaaay far back. Five yearsish? Maybe more. It only held about 13 songs, hahah. XD

Anyway, my creative was great back then, but I don't know how they are nowadays.

The iAudio is very nice, great reviews. The problem is its a few years old, meaning what ever I'm going to spend on it [which is at least 200 dollars if Amazon is selling it for that much] I can get something thats many folds better for probably 25 or 50 dollars more.

I'm leaning on the side of Creative, but it seems that the Archos is well rounded. The the lack of a bettery that you can easily take out bad? I think I'm just worrying about that too much because everyone seems to point that out about the Archos I mentions.

iAudio may be a few years old, but it still has the widest support for files in the price bracket.

Then again, I'm pro'lly the only one here that uses flac and ogg audio over mp3/<insert apple's audio format>.

Just stay away from the iPod, overhyped piece of garbage XD My sis has has a creative Zen, dunno if it's a good as that iAudio thing but it offers more value for less money than iPod :P

BTW, M, my media player plays more stuff than your iAudio thingy =p

iPod's are great, I don't know why you have to bring yourself down to smash anything Apple related. Good interface [apparently the iAudio doesn't allow you to look by artist and album, what idiot did that?], the scroll wheel, years in perfection, has been perfected imo. iTunes is also tried and true, and its just very nice to look at.

While theres many things out there that does what the iPod does and even better, its usually at a premium, and the iPod is already expensive which is why I'm looking for alternatives.

Then again, I'm pro'lly the only one here that uses flac and ogg audio over mp3/<insert apple's audio format>.

I use ogg a bit. Not much flac though.

iPod's are great, I don't know why you have to bring yourself down to smash anything Apple related. Good interface [apparently the iAudio doesn't allow you to look by artist and album, what idiot did that?], the scroll wheel, years in perfection, has been perfected imo. iTunes is also tried and true, and its just very nice to look at.

While theres many things out there that does what the iPod does and even better, its usually at a premium, and the iPod is already expensive which is why I'm looking for alternatives.

It's a matter of taste, really. I don't really prefer the scroll wheel over buttons, I think the design is plain and boring and the interface isn't that special. And you *have* to have iTunes with it, which is the most horrible piece of shit software around. All apple software on Windows is just horrible, I'm not saying that because it's apple, I'm saying that because it is.

Heres the killer question: and why does is suck so? I can agree with you not liking the scroll wheel over tactile buttons and not liking that it needs a software to upload things onto it, but why does iTunes suck?

Apple software is generally poorly written, slow, unstable and in general there are much better alternatives either from MS (Windows Media Player) or from other sources.

Just because everybody uses iTunes doesn't mean it's good, or are you implying Windows is the best OS out there?

I'm pretty happy with my ipod, but i have no choice since i wanted it to interface with my BMW. If you get an ipod, buy it used. I got my 60GB G4 ipod for $20, replaced the battery for $8, and it works great. There's enough apple fanboys/girls that get the latest ipod when it comes out and they want to sell their old one. Just ask around!

iTunes sucks for many reasons, but it's fine it you just use it to sync and not for a media manager.

Winamp can still sync ipods can't it?
Apple products are just slapped together from cheap parts (http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2007/06/hal-varian-who-.html) in an aesthetically pleasing package. The program is annoying, and as a default reduces sound quality to 128. It's mostly made to seem impressive to people who aren't even a little knowledgeable. Stupid Acc converting on it annoys me... Just saying after the Ipods that contained windows viruses, I think Apple made it obvious how they feel about cross platform usage.


No idea what's really good out on the market right now... I'd go with M's because I'm too lazy to go back and look.

I have had many mp3 players. Right now I have an iPod video and I think it is the best one out there. I have had the fewest problems with it and Apple always stands behind their products. I think iTunes has a much more user-friendly interface than Windows Media Player. Stick to the iPod. You could always go the refurbished route and get one for less money.

sooo I got my cousins old 5G iPod. Cracked LCD.

I ordered a new LCD, and with my uncles helped put it in [he cracked the screw holes of the faceplate when we pried it off.. tuts were a bit vauge].

A week later after confusion and check listing, were expecting a replacement LCD for our defected replacement LCD. wheeee -_-