Hello everyone

Nice to meet you all. I am studying composition right now and is still lack of experience. I hope I could learn from everyone and become as good as most composer in this forum. Here is my first soundtrack composition, "The Successor". I intended to compose this song for a scene of the game I am currently making when the young Successor is being crowned. Hope you'll enjoy it. And please comment on how could I improve it.

Thank you,

Welcome to Ichigo's. I do see you have a good sense of melody, and counterpoint. But your main problem is orchestration. Firstly, the layout of your score is quite messy, and doesn't really follow the traditional rules. Secondly, you need to study about ranges of instruments, at times, you were making them going beyond their limits. Thirdly, your dynamics and nuances markings need to be clearly written. Fourthly, you should learn about timbres of instrument and how they work together with other instruments of the orchestra and learning how to put foreground, middleground and background musical devices to use.

I agree with every word that Sir_dot just said; really listen to his advice!

In crescendi and diminuendi, always write the beginning dynamic and the ending dynamic, otherwise, it will be confusing, for example, Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata; the published version has these markings, but there's not many that can sightread it without a recording of it first on the dynamics.

A common way to use double bass and cello is to separate these two instruments by octaves.

A "regular" string ensemble should include violin 1 and 2, viola, cello, contrabass/double bass.

Altos and tenors are singers; have some lyrics down! :p

(More will be posted)

Thank you for both your comment, Sir DotDotDot and clarinetist. I tried to watch out for the dynamic and timbre harmonization (but I really want to find a sample symphony composition to study how timbres of instrument work together, if anyone know a good composition to study from please tell me). I found that Sibelius also tells when you are off the range of instument so I switched to use Sibelius instead and fixed all the out of range notes. And I added the Viola part to complete the quartet. Here is the updated version, hope you'll enjoy it!

Fron earlier comment, does that mean that the double bass note should usually be exact same note as cello but an octave note lower?

Fron earlier comment, does that mean that the double bass note should usually be exact same note as cello but an octave note lower?

Yes. Will comment soon...

EDIT: If you would like, I have a partial version of Beethoven's Egmont Overture down... ("Mutopia Project"'s version)

Really? I really want to have a look and study it. Thank you, Clarinetist. I'll be looking forward to your comment!

If you would like to study orchestration, buy Samuel Adler's The Study of Orchestration instead. It helps a lot.

I will get my school's Orchestration Study Book when my school starts. (Right now I'm on holiday). And I hope to learn from the book for facts and from everyone here for composition experience. I'll look forward to your comment on the updated version of The Successor.

Hi, I now have "Principles of Orchestration" by Nikolay Korsakov. I'm going through it right now. (Still on Harmony Chapter, quite hard to understand). I'll try to modify the composition from what I learn:

1) For String, to make the melody stand out, turn other string parts to ostinatos and/or make the melodic violin distinctively octave higher than other strings.

2) Upon using flute, being less expressive than string, thus cannot easily shift from one feeling to another. Therefore, flute should only be used for short passage for one specific feeling.

2) Double Bass (being dull tone) cannot become the melodic part on its own, but can play the melody (short passage only) with other instruments (wood wind, which is octave or more higher and/ or Cello, a unison or octave lower)

3) Unless aiming for Concerto, a piano, celesta as other percussions should not be used as main concentration of the music, but as a decoration (Arpeggios and chord). However, only for a short passage, a piano can be used to play a melody with thin texture, to contrast to the thick texture of the orchestra.

4) Composer may generalize that the balance between strings and woodwind is such that "ALL Violin I" OR "ALL Violin II" department is congruent to "one Flute", and on forte, to two flutes. Thus, composer should consider how "stand out" flute could be in an orchestra and minimize the usage of flute if it is not the melody, while

5) since flute player can only sustain for short passage (before taking the breath out) therefore, if using flute as decoration at fast tempo, flute may play appregio for a while and the passage by holding a long note before rest. Remember, flute unlike strings doesn't have to always play continuously throughout the piece, but could come and go and come and go as a motif.

Hope this note may be useful for other composer too.
(If I have oversummarized any points, please comment on it)

Hi, I now have "Principles of Orchestration" by Nikolay Korsakov. I'm going through it right now. (Still on Harmony Chapter, quite hard to understand). I'll try to modify the composition from what I learn:

1) For String, to make the melody stand out, turn other string parts to ostinatos and/or make the melodic violin distinctively octave higher than other strings.

2) Upon using flute, being less expressive than string, thus cannot easily shift from one feeling to another. Therefore, flute should only be used for short passage for one specific feeling.

2) Double Bass (being dull tone) cannot become the melodic part on its own, but can play the melody (short passage only) with other instruments (wood wind, which is octave or more higher and/ or Cello, a unison or octave lower)

3) Unless aiming for Concerto, a piano, celesta as other percussions should not be used as main concentration of the music, but as a decoration (Arpeggios and chord). However, only for a short passage, a piano can be used to play a melody with thin texture, to contrast to the thick texture of the orchestra.

4) Composer may generalize that the balance between strings and woodwind is such that "ALL Violin I" OR "ALL Violin II" department is congruent to "one Flute", and on forte, to two flutes. Thus, composer should consider how "stand out" flute could be in an orchestra and minimize the usage of flute if it is not the melody, while

5) since flute player can only sustain for short passage (before taking the breath out) therefore, if using flute as decoration at fast tempo, flute may play appregio for a while and the passage by holding a long note before rest. Remember, flute unlike strings doesn't have to always play continuously throughout the piece, but could come and go and come and go as a motif.

Hope this note may be useful for other composer too.
(If I have oversummarized any points, please comment on it)

1.) Not necessary true. Because all strings instruments have such a vast range of dynamics, you can even make the most clustered melody of a string passage to stand out, if you know how to put the counterpoint appropriately. Also, it can be the vice versa of what you said; as long as there's space between the melody and harmony, the melody will stand out quite well.

2.) I agree to some degree. Flute is shrill in the top register, thus it lacks expressive quality, but it doesn't mean it can't be used for expressive passages. Professional flautists can control the upper register as well as the middle register. The only concern with the flute is its lower register.

3.) True.

4.) It doesn't matter. As long as your melody is brilliant enough or the accompaniment is light enough to support but not overwhelm your melody, you're fine.

5.) Somewhat true. Flute has a greater endurance than some of the other instruments (i.e. trumpet, oboe, and bassoon), but it doesn't matter whether if you continuosly use it or not, you can alternate it between players and etc... Besides, you wouldn't really want flute to appear in your piece ALL the time, it's a tiring sound after a while. But no, this can be considered at the composer's discretion.

I don't know much about orchestration, but I can tell you that I enjoyed listening to it. It was structured very well, and I really liked your melody. However, the one thing that bothered me was the timpani; the rolls seemed a bit out of place, because they came out of nowhere, and then just stopped. Regardless, I really liked it; it was very relaxing and easy to enjoy. I hope you stick around at Ichigo's - I hope to hear more of your work!

Great foundation! The main problem with this is dynamics and transitions. Because of the lacks of these two ingredients, the piece has trouble "going anywhere" or building any form of tension.

Thank you SilverHawk and Noir7 for the compliment (I actually forgot to develop the Timpany, I shall develop percussion in this composition). I'll also definately work on the dynamic and transition between each movement again. And is there any special technique of building tension? (especially any that I could employ in this composition?)

My second composition, "The Battle." (I really want to hear feedback from everyone what you think this composition could suite for). This composition is still incomplete so I'll try to finish it ASAP. And please suggest improvement for this composition.

Thank you

Well, first off, it doesn't sound like a battle.

What is the best word to describe the feeling where: you wanted to save someone you love, yet you know that you are not strong enought, but trying to summon all your strength to save that person. I think that is what I really had in mind when I compose this composition, but cannot find the right word for it. But again, I'm sure that there are scenes this music could fit into, so please give your feedback on the composition.

Concerning meas. 11-19ish, Vl. I should get the higher parts, unless you're having the seating position of the orchestra having something to do with this.

It definitely gives off that feeling that you were looking for. However, the word "battle" usually has a connotation of a fight, as opposed to the inner conflict that this piece represents - an alternate title might be better, but it's up to you. As for the piece itself, I did enjoy it a lot. Not much to say, besides what Clarinetist already said - but I'm looking forward to hearing the rest!

@ lycoris:
Me, too, thought you referred "battle" as to a physical combat sort of situation... Alas, I'd disagree with Silverhawk about its relevance to the title or mood you were looking for. The short sniplet of music you've shown us now reminds me more of corny, and somewhat tacky, anime-inspired cues.

If you want to portray a sense of struggle and convey a feeling of inadecuacy then you must not try to write in a generic manner. The result will just be... I wouldn't say melodramatic, but rather ironically 'inadecuate'.

And also, I cannot help but wonder about the fact that you said, and I quote, "I really want to hear feedback from everyone what you think this composition could suite for". This might just be your main problem. Instead of writing material that truly bears any meaning, you're deliberately writing absolute music that bears no representational reflection of your sought-after feeling or mood.

@clarinetsist:
Orchestra seating position? I now honestly think some of you guys are going overboard with these endless orchestration rules. I can clearly see how it makes for a more satisfied real-life orchestra - but it is certainly starting to affect the quality of your composing. Actual composing should always be first priority, and I cannot help but feel that some people don't do that anymore. Some composers can use the knowledge of orchestration to their advance and not letting the rules restrict them, others cannot.

I hope I made any sense at all, if not, feel free to ask.

@clarinetsist:
Orchestra seating position? I now honestly think some of you guys are going overboard with these endless orchestration rules. I can clearly see how it makes for a more satisfied real-life orchestra - but it is certainly starting to affect the quality of your composing. Actual composing should always be first priority, and I cannot help but feel that some people don't do that anymore. Some composers can use the knowledge of orchestration to their advance and not letting the rules restrict them, others cannot.

I hope I made any sense at all, if not, feel free to ask.

Yes, it does make sense, which is why I'm now trying to create simple themes now, which honestly now is difficult for me. :\

About the orchestral seating position: it's used for dialouge effect; sort of like "call and response". Tchaikovsky did it in one of his symphonies by using a melody and switching every note between the two violin parts.

@clarinetsist:
Orchestra seating position? I now honestly think some of you guys are going overboard with these endless orchestration rules. I can clearly see how it makes for a more satisfied real-life orchestra - but it is certainly starting to affect the quality of your composing. Actual composing should always be first priority, and I cannot help but feel that some people don't do that anymore. Some composers can use the knowledge of orchestration to their advance and not letting the rules restrict them, others cannot.

I hope I made any sense at all, if not, feel free to ask.

It's actually one of those little things that make your music sound three-dimensional.