Yeah, thought I'd bring this up just to interest those multi-cartoon fans. Now, in your opinion... which is better? Comics? or Animes? And don't give that stupid excuse "Oh it depends on the person" or, "they're both the same"... No no, in YOUR opinion, what do YOU think is better. Compare them.
-------------------------------------

I like anime better, because animes base their stories more on morals and real life experiences, ones of which you can learn values in life. As to where comics are more of pride, courage, and good overcomes evil, or justice rules over all. Though that is what I like about comics...to learn to never give up, but I'd like to learn more than just one moral for life.

Your turn! :P

Anime, by a lot.
The stories and art appeal to me much more than the average American comic or cartoon. Anime is just so much better looking.

Cartoon....well... its just for kids. Anime( some animes, not action or too much action) gets you thinking, about the wonders of the world( love, hate, alienation etc.). I cant stand watching cartoons, they are dull and pointless.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5329/1192133775765tj2.jpg (sh!tstoooooorm)

cough cough...

that aside, i think foreverdissevered and hopelesscomposer are wrong. I love anime and manga, but i have come to love comics and animated comics as well. i have read many comics and seen many animated comics that were just as good or even sometimes better as some anime and manga. Most real comics are not for kids. Two excellent ones that i recommend for 18+ are Punisher and Punisher Max, as well as Spawn. Other great comics include The Preacher, John Constantine, and many more.

stop thinking comics are just some shitty kids bullshit. yeah theres bad western comics, but theres bad anime too.

its like apples and oranges.

Uh, anime is watched, and comics are read... Well, I guess I read subbed anime, but I still watch it... Like Shade said, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Or in this case, watermelons. Although, you did ask for my opinion, and frankly, if I had to choose between watching a Spider Man anime, or reading a Spider Man comic, I'd read the comic. But! If it's an anime like Keroro Gunso, I'd rather watch the anime than read a comic (not manga, but comic) of it. There's my two cents. Don't spend it all in one place, now.

Well, that's a very interesting topic. All i know is that like Superman comics(Or Spiderman, Batman, or other superheroes) came into animated series.
Anime is a cartoon filled with good graphics and good story, and so is the comics.

Anyway, in my opinion, i like anime better because of two things:

Most popular anime nowadays are in romance series(which includes the series for kids such as cardcaptor sakura) and action anime(Bleach...very popular in my country, I have no idea why they are so interested in this anime that i don't like). But MOST IMPORTANTLY, I like anime because of comedy! Such as Keroro Gunso, that darn frog alien likes GUNDAM! XD

that aside, i think foreverdissevered and hopelesscomposer are wrong.

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Miscellaneous/5cm%20-%20Medium%2001.jpg
http://otaku.ptitlutin.free.fr/images/Byousoku%205%20centimeter/Byousoku%205cm%20-%20Couloir.png
http://amvnews.ru/images/news002/Byousoku-5-senchimeetoru-50.jpg
http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/image/byousoku/oukashou.jpg
http://i.yimg.jp/images/evt/5cm/phg_17.jpg
Find me an American cartoon that looks like that, and I'll be amazed. = \
The amount of artistry that goes into anime makes the American cartoon look like a joke.
At least, as far as I've ever seen.

Cartoons nowadays are pretty lame. But! cartoons from the forties and such had a LOT of work go into them, such as the Bugs Bunny cartoon or Mickey Mouse cartoons (especially Walt Disney movies). Each frame was illustrated, painted, and animated by hand. They had no computer-generated ways to make the images, so I'd think that these count as having a higher amount of artistry in them. More effort, at least...

The battle of ages. It all comes down to what you personally feel a story should be centered around. American storylines are more centered around an action or event based theme, whereas Japanese stroylines tend to be more relational or reactive based. I've seen brilliant art on the Comics side, and I've also seen shitty ones. The same can be said about Manga.

Anime holds no sides in this, as anime is not a comparative to this (I'm assuming Crim meant Manga).

My personal opinion is Manga is better. Why? Because I feel that jamming a lot of action into a story that is complex deters the true meaning behind the story itself. Of course, action in an action oriented story is good, but trying to do that in a large worldcasting is not good. Thus, I choose manga far sooner than comics.

Anime holds no sides in this, as anime is not a comparative to this (I'm assuming Crim meant Manga).
Or he could of meant cartoons instead of comics, lulz. Though you're probably right. I just mentioned anime because someone else mentioned cartoons afterwards, so I was like whatever then...

Each frame was illustrated, painted, and animated by hand. They had no computer-generated ways to make the images, so I'd think that these count as having a higher amount of artistry in them. More effort, at least...
Jesus christ. If anyone suggests that cartoons aren't hand drawn anymore again, I'm going to shoot somebody.
Protip:
COMPUTERS CAN'T DRAW! CARTOONS AND ANIME ARE STILL HAND-DRAWN, OTHERWISE THEY'RE NOT CARTOONS!

Sorry, but I love to draw, and I can't stand when people point at amazing works of art (like the pictures I just posted), and go "oh, computers do that nowadays, lawl." Computers DON'T do that nowadays, and WON'T do that until we give computers real sentience. God damnit.

Of course, some anime/cartoons use CGI in them, but it usually looks like shit, and it always stands out.
And of course, CGI is also a time-consuming, very hard to master skill, just as hand-drawn animation is. So we really shouldn't be saying "oh, cartoons from the forties are better because they were hand drawn," even if cartoons nowadays were purely CGI. (Which again, isn't the case at all.) If you can make something into a CGI model, you can make it into a clay one. Can you make near-perfect models of people, Gyakuten? Are you suggesting doing so would be easier than drawing Mickey Mouse?! Do I need to shoot someone?!?!?!~~!!!111 XD

WHERE'S MY REVOLVER?!
[rant rant rant]

It's always comforting to know that when I'm an amazing artist, ten years down the road, that people will look at my work and go, "Oh, he didn't really do anything anyway. We have computers now, hahah."

Bleaaargh.
If I ever become a famous artist, I'm going to pay to have public service announcements put all over TV and the internet. "HEY EVERYONE! ARTISTS STILL MAKE ART LOL! COMPUTERS DON'T! I'LL KILL YOU IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE!!!"

Must....stop.....ranting............
[/rant rant rant]
And this post isn't angry, just flabbergasted. X3

Woah, cool down, man. I didn't mean to suggest that 'an1m3 iz nubz0rz 4dn c4rt00nz iz t3h pro r0xxorz!!1!!onetwo11!!' I was just countering your point about how the amount of artistry in American cartoons is a joke. I didn't say they were better, I just meant that an equal amount, maybe even more, of effort was put into them. In fact, I actually favour anime to American cartoons... I just like to look at both sides of the issue. If you'd made a point about American cartoons being superior, I would've countered it. It's just the way I am. I didn't mean to upset you.

Also, I didn't say anything about anime being not hand-drawn, I just said that EVERY FRAME of the movies were hand-drawn. I'm sure anime is hand drawn at some point, just not every single frame. Since the technology nowadays provides efficiency to be able to copy a single frame, edit it a little, and create many more frames, I just think it takes a bit less effort than actually hand-painting every single frame and scene.

Also, I didn't say anything about anime being not hand-drawn, I just said that EVERY FRAME of the movies were hand-drawn. I'm sure anime is hand drawn at some point, just not every single frame. Since the technology nowadays provides efficiency to be able to copy a single frame, edit it a little, and create many more frames, I just think it takes a bit less effort than actually hand-painting every single frame and scene.
And this is the part that upset me. Anime and cartoon frames are still ALL hand drawn nowadays. Our "technology" doesn't tweak our drawings for us, unless we're using vector graphics, which normal cartoons and anime do not use. The closest thing to a program tweaking things for us is what you kind of just suggested; we can copy and paste pictures now if we really want to, and redraw say, someone's mouth moving. But guess what - that's no more than animators have been doing forever with lightboxes anyway. The work is exactly the same, except now you can choose to use Retas or TOONZ instead of a lightbox.

Most animation studios by the way, still do all their animation frames on PAPER, the way it's always been done, because many animators actually find it EASIER than doing it on the computer. (Try drawing with a tablet sometime; it's a pain in the ass compared to a good old pencil.) The only reason animation studios use animation programs at all instead of plastic cells is because plastic cells cost a crap load of money and look messier.

So....yeah. 99.99% of the studios out there still do all their animation on good, old fashioned paper, because its actually easier than using a computer to do it. The other .01% can't afford a trillion sheets of paper, so are stuck doing it the newer, harder, but cheaper way.

Coloring is usually done on the computer now, but that doesn't really make it easier either, just faster and cheaper. There's not much skill involved with coloring in the lines.

Ah, and artistry does not equal hard work, unlike what you seem to be implying. If I try really hard to animate a cartoon using stone tablets and a chisel, and the end result comes out as an uninteresting, messy piece of shit, it's not automatically as artistic as the latest ghibli movie, just because i worked my ass off making it.

Shouldn't this turn into a poll?

And I think anime is better

@HopelessComposer - No, you're absolutely correct. I see your points, and I agree with them, but I think I got my ideas mixed up. By 'edit a little' I didn't just mean what you said about the copy & pasting/lightbox stuff, I also meant the special effects and stuff. Like explosions, splatters, auras, things along these lines. Nowadays, most special effects are done with the computer, but back then they had to be done by hand.

To produce these effects, the animators used different techniques, such as drybrush, airbrush, charcoal, grease pencil, backlit animation or, during shooting, the cameraman used multiple exposures with diffusing screens, filters or gels.
Again, I agree that [I]most of the pre-animation work on anime is done by hand, but painted cels are rare today since the computer moved into the studio. Outline drawings are usually scanned into a computer and filled with digital colour instead of being copyed to cels and then hand-coloured. The drawings are edited in a computer program with many layers and made into a sequence of images.

I'm not sure if this takes more effort than hand-colouring, but I'd put my vote on it being easier.

Uh oh, this thread is starting to get general discussion marked all over it... y didn't I start it there in the first place?

Like explosions, splatters, auras, things along these lines. Nowadays, most special effects are done with the computer, but back then they had to be done by hand.
That's very true, and I see what you mean there. Things along those lines have definitely been made easier because of computers. Then again, how many cartoons in the forties were using motion blur, auras, explosions, glowing effects, or any other "special effects?"

You said old Disney cartoons were better because they did things without computers; I don't see how special effects tied into those, since all those used were flat colors, which are done basically the same way today as they were now. = \

Of course, Disney did some cool hand-painted stuff once in awhile, like tron and such, but I don't know how difficult that stuff really was - I mean, it was basically just glowing lines. I'm not convinced that took a whole lot of skill to produce.

So I dunno, I agree with you a little bit, in that computers have definitely made achieving certain effects easier. But....most of those effects weren't used in older cartoons, period, so I don't think the level of artistry involved has really changed. Also, don't forget that working with computers brings a whole new set of problems with it. Artists nowadays utilize just as many skills (if not more!) than the artists of yesteryear, at least from my own experience as an artist.

Uh oh, this thread is starting to get general discussion marked all over it... y didn't I start it there in the first place?
lol, well it fit in here at first, but then me and Gyakuten stepped it up to the next level. ARTS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS! XD

Very true, very true. Cartoons in the forties and such didn't have very many special effect, but the animated movies did. Here are some examples for your enjoyment:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Fantasia_Tyrannosaurus.jpg
Rain counts as an effect, I'd think...

http://www.greatdreams.com/crop/mickey2.jpg
Sure, stars/magic dust too.

http://www.inetres.com/gp/anime/fantasia/f05_10.jpg
Splashes of water looks hard to animate...

I'm sure there's more, I just don't have time to find them all. Now, I'm aware that these images might have been digitaly altered, but I don't know for sure.

Aye, those all count, but they're all still hand-animated in new cartoons too. Especially splashes of water. When have you ever seen a computerized water splash? Oo

That would look so...odd.
The sparkle is the only thing that would really be done differently nowadays. Either it would be computer generated using a program such as Maya, (Which, btw, is an artform/pain in the ass in and of itself, and takes a hell of a lot of practice. (try it sometime!)) or they would draw it like they used to, little circles and such, and just color it on the computer. The second option is pretty close to how they used to do it, but probably less time consuming; computers have control + z, hahah. The first option is very different, but still very hard to make look right.

I guess my point is that even though old cartoons had special effects, new ones have them too, and they usually look much better than they used to. Computers help a little bit (or a lot!) in some cases, but artists are working just as hard as they used to, otherwise cartoons would still look the way they did in the forties. Eg:

Hard work and talent = forties cartoons.
Hard work, talent, and computer assistance = 2007.

Also, I still hold that animations nowadays are better. Look at the pictures I posted earlier. Computers had nothing to do with those; they were all handpainted - no special effects going on. Those paintings are gorgeous. Why didn't snow white have backgrounds like that? Why don't any American cartoons have backgrounds like that? My answer is that animation is becoming a more and more serious artform in Japan, while Americans push it aside as something designed for little kids. American animation has been regressing since the early 90's in my opinion. What was Disney's last good animated movie? Beauty and the Beast? Even that one, which I consider Disney's greatest work, doesn't match the visual fidelity of many anime today.

Your points have bested me. I completely consent to to the prosecution's statements. It's true, anime looks amazing; I can't deny that. Also, I can't think of any more points to defend American cartoons. I just like anime too much. :P

Phoenix Wright, after all, is an anime styled character. XD

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3739/objectionfy8.gif

"I'm an anime character! How could American cartoons possibly be better than me?!"

The battle of ages. It all comes down to what you personally feel a story should be centered around. American storylines are more centered around an action or event based theme, whereas Japanese stroylines tend to be more relational or reactive based. I've seen brilliant art on the Comics side, and I've also seen shitty ones. The same can be said about Manga.

Anime holds no sides in this, as anime is not a comparative to this (I'm assuming Crim meant Manga).

My personal opinion is Manga is better. Why? Because I feel that jamming a lot of action into a story that is complex deters the true meaning behind the story itself. Of course, action in an action oriented story is good, but trying to do that in a large worldcasting is not good. Thus, I choose manga far sooner than comics.

Building upon this, American Cartoon and comic characters tend to be fairly flat and static. As in Elmer Fudd (sp?) is always trying to shoot Bugs Bunny. Anime and Manga characters are usually more Dynamic.

Most of the time, I prefer anime/manga. However, this doesn't mean I never read a comic, or watch a cartoon. Right now I'm reading V for Vendetta (Awesome, you all should read it.), which, although it would make an amazing manga, isn't. But, I'm not sure what country it's from; I don't think it's American.

It's English. I think. X3

Well, to tell the truth, I can come to believe that american comics all started from olden time manga (forgot what they were called, olf japanese portraits). The characteristics and methods are very close in similarity. Especially eyes and facial structure. But that's just my opinion. But still, they are great, they're best for gettin pumped up on.

-------------------------------------

As for animations, yes, true, hand drawn art still is the best way of doing things in today's society, and looks better, the best I think is the anime artist for Disney (forgot his name, the creator of Spirited Away, Howl's Castle, and many other famous anime movies). I mean, look how long it takes him to make ONE movie, give 2-3 years at the most. Frame after frame, it takes him a while. Though most people just use rough sketches of things to get it going. Then use the comp. to animate it, or put it into motion... how? graphing... If you'd recall in Algebra, plotting is what most movie, anime, video game artists use to animate objects these days. Especially video game designer, I mean, I'm sure as hell they wouldn't draw frame after frame of such well detailed objects and characters to animate in a game. But they do have rough sketches to begin with, monsters, creatures, and opponents in particular. But anime artist do this as well, though it costs a fortune, it is faster than the traditional.

Especially video game designer, I mean, I'm sure as hell they wouldn't draw frame after frame of such well detailed objects and characters to animate in a game. But they do have rough sketches to begin with, monsters, creatures, and opponents in particular.


I'd like to point out that more than level of detail keep games from being hand-animated.

Games today use internal 3d software to create the images seen in the game. Combine that with this: each "Item" in a game's virtual world has a point that it's at, in the form of (X,Y,Z). Each point has the 3d model built around it. that way, all you have to animate is motion of the character (Scenery just re-draws) as it's point moves through virtual space.

If a video game today were hand drawn, then it may involve storage if (Insert appropriate greek prefix)-illions of images; one for each and every possible frame in the game. Then, it'd have to draw each picture in less than a 30th of a second, display it, clear the screen and start over. All in all, it's just not probable.


It's English. I think. X3

That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure. Thanks.

Then, it'd have to draw each picture in less than a 30th of a second, display it, clear the screen and start over. All in all, it's just not probable.
It's not improbable for a 3d game, it's impossible. The level of work required to do this would take a team of animators a million years, even if the gameworld was a simple white room.

As for animations, yes, true, hand drawn art still is the best way of doing things in today's society, and looks better, the best I think is the anime artist for Disney (forgot his name, the creator of Spirited Away, Howl's Castle, and many other famous anime movies). I mean, look how long it takes him to make ONE movie, give 2-3 years at the most. Frame after frame, it takes him a while. Though most people just use rough sketches of things to get it going. Then use the comp. to animate it, or put it into motion... how? graphing... If you'd recall in Algebra, plotting is what most movie, anime, video game artists use to animate objects these days. Especially video game designer, I mean, I'm sure as hell they wouldn't draw frame after frame of such well detailed objects and characters to animate in a game. But they do have rough sketches to begin with, monsters, creatures, and opponents in particular. But anime artist do this as well, though it costs a fortune, it is faster than the traditional.
And oh my god, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about, at all. Animations aren't done with "graphing," they're done by drawing every frame by hand, same as always. Computers would require true sentience to do this "graphing" you're talking about, so animation will never be able to be done by computers, ever. (Because when a computer gains sentience, it becomes a being, not a computer. ;) )

And 3d graphics aren't "Drawn." They're...blargh. Look it up. Did you even read the rest of the thread? Where we went over how computers can't draw? Like a million times? Bleh.

http://scythe.net/archen/info/info/cganime.html

[offtopic]
If a video game today were hand drawn, then it may involve storage if (Insert appropriate greek prefix)-illions of images; one for each and every possible frame in the game. Then, it'd have to draw each picture in less than a 30th of a second, display it, clear the screen and start over. All in all, it's just not probable.


Not quite, even if something's handdrawn it can still be built up with sprites/ layers etc. Actually, there's probably a bunch of games out there that are completely hand drawn. I know I once attempted it, but I lack programming (and drawing) skills.

so what are you trying to say here angelic? That animes are handrawn or not?

Oh, as for games being drawn, one popular one in particular is Oakomi though the company didn't do so well in sales w/ that game, that is a very well drawn graphic video game. O and other games such as ones for Naruto, Bleach, and other anime based video games. Also DBZ, we can't forget that one either.

Not quite, even if something's handdrawn it can still be built up with sprites/ layers etc. Actually, there's probably a bunch of games out there that are completely hand drawn. I know I once attempted it, but I lack programming (and drawing) skills.
It would be impossible to hand-draw a 3d game, where the camera moves about in 3d. Of course, 2d games can be all hand-drawn quite easily. It's not like SNES games were using cgi, lol.

Oh, as for games being drawn, one popular one in particular is Oakomi though the company didn't do so well in sales w/ that game, that is a very well drawn graphic video game. O and other games such as ones for Naruto, Bleach, and other anime based video games. Also DBZ, we can't forget that one either.
None of those games are drawn. They're cell-shaded. Are you telling me you can't tell the difference between DBZ the anime and DBZ the game? Jesus.

Oh wow, this reminds me of Saga Frontier 2. It had some of the most awesome water color backgrounds and areas ever made. Sad, these screenshots don't do the art a whole lot of justice, but oh well...
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7109/sagaf201rc6.jpghttp://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4082/islandja2.th.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=islandja2.jpg)http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2599/laubholztownrv7.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=laubholztownrv7.jpg)http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5278/hahnshopsvm1.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hahnshopsvm1.jpg)


Also, I still hold that animations nowadays are better. Look at the pictures I posted earlier. Computers had nothing to do with those; they were all handpainted - no special effects going on. Those paintings are gorgeous. Why didn't snow white have backgrounds like that? Why don't any American cartoons have backgrounds like that? My answer is that animation is becoming a more and more serious artform in Japan, while Americans push it aside as something designed for little kids. American animation has been regressing since the early 90's in my opinion. What was Disney's last good animated movie? Beauty and the Beast? Even that one, which I consider Disney's greatest work, doesn't match the visual fidelity of many anime today.

I know that you were talking about cartoons, and that, in a way I'm quoting you out of context, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that all animation in America has regressed. What about cgi? Lots of work and improvement has gone into that. Americans have been putting more focus on that than any other format, for both kids and adults.

As for which medium I tend to tend to prefer in the visual sense, I'd go with manga because I've find it easier to admire sections of artwork. Anime, not so much.

What about cgi? Lots of work and improvement has gone into that. Americans have been putting more focus on that than any other format, for both kids and adults.
We've been kind of keeping cgi and traditional animation separate in this thread, as they're completely different looking and take two totally separate sets of skills to produce. Cgi is becoming more popular in america, but cgi films aren't cartoons, according to the dictionary I'm using and my own personal definition. Cartoons imply drawings, according to my dictionary and personal definition. :3

And yeah, I heard Saga was gorgeous. I've never gotten to play it though, sadly. :(

Though I think I like the traditional animations from the old days like Lion King better than the modern 3D animations for kids. But that might be because I grew up with that...

Though I think I like the traditional animations from the old days like Lion King better than the modern 3D animations for kids. But that might be because I grew up with that...
No, it's because traditional animation looks better. lol. X3

Some people think otherwise about that...

Some people have no taste. :3

Or maybe a diff. taste?

Maybe.
But remember, I could take a picture of a pile of dog crap and call it a masterpiece rivaling that of the Mona Lisa.
Just because a taste is different doesn't mean it can't be wrong too. :3

Maybe.
But remember, I could take a picture of a pile of dog crap and call it a masterpiece rivaling that of the Mona Lisa.
Just because a taste is different doesn't mean it can't be wrong too. :3

I truly don't believe photography to be all that great of an artform. Sure, some could argue that you need the correct angles, timing, etc., and all that, but I don't think you could compare a photograph to a portrait. Though, if you poured all your heart and soul into painting this pile of animal faeces, and emphasized every detail, it just MIGHT be considered a masterpiece, even though what you painted was questionable. I believe the technique, style, method, and overall professionalism is what makes a masterpiece, and not the topic that it's about.

I agree that photography doesn't take as much skill as most other artforms. It takes artistic vision (eg: Ah, this is a nice looking tree, and the light is playing quite well with the grass!), but not much else. Most other forms of art take vision and technical skills. You can still definitely tell a good photograph from a bad photograph from a great photograph though, so there is some talent involved obviously.

And I disagree about the topic thing. A good topic is half of a piece! O:
At least I think so.

I guess people who were born between 70-80s like American cartoons better because well, they were better back then. I mean, Transformers, Simpsons, Luney Toons, Animaniacs, Batman, Justice Leagues, Scooby Doo, Jetsons, Flintstones, marvel comics, dc comics, all of these were popular in America. Anime wasn't even known during those times. Anime started popping up in the mid 90s. The one that really picked it up was Pokemon. Sad but true. Then came Digimon, Yu-Gi-oh, Cubix, and more.

Honestly, I prefer Anime because it's more realistic with better art and colors. Today's cartoons are bland. Just a monochromatic to chromatic colors, using no less than 5 colors. The background, just a simple polygonal shape and lines. Today's cartoons are becoming more and more abstract, as animes today are becoming more and more realistic and lively with colors.

That's my opinion.

Also about picture taking, it ain't easy as it seems. It takes lots of patience and skill to bring out the best in a picture. When you look at a picture in a magazine or National Geographic, you have to take a minute at least once in a while and wonder how they took it. What kind of Camera was used, etc. Photography is also considered art and will always be. Believe it or not, photography class is required for you get a degree in any Art Majors in college today and it ain't easy.

I think the art of photography is defined by the fact of photographers taking pics and modifying them with photoshop or something. But that's what I think.

Believe it or not, photography class is required for you get a degree in any Art Majors in college today and it ain't easy.
They give away degrees for anything nowadays, and every single person I've talked to going to art school (for any field of art) says that art universities are total bullshit. = \

I do agree that taking a good photo takes some skill, but I'd say it takes less skill to take a photo of one of the cars you draw than to actually draw one.

I truly second that, the shading is just hell with them things, and the proportions.

^ Haha, yeah, but entirely, I respect photographers and how they survive in the world with just their pictures. It makes you think what they do.

And what else they capture wit them lenses hawhawhaw... lol XD jk. But yeah really good people. I'd say the work comes from expressions in the pics.