* If you drive a car in the economy today, you probably have felt the pain at the pump. That’s right, gasoline has become a more expensive commodity in society then it ever has been. In order to relieve this pain at the pump, we need to look to alternative fuels to meet our transportation needs. The best alternative would be to shift the world to a hydrogen economy.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h255/porschegtiii/GasArmLeg.jpg

Why Not Hybrid Cars?

* Hybrid cars would seem to be a logical alternative to the current way we use oil. These cars run on an electric motor as well as gasoline. This would save the consumers of gasoline from making purchases as often as they currently do. The problem is, these cars still rely on gasoline. At some time in the future, our supply of gasoline will run out. This means that sometime between when we started drilling for oil and when there is no more oil, we will reach a concept called peak oil. Peak oil is when oil production has reached a maximum and then slowly declines (Haubrich and Meyer, 2007, p. 1). In other words, the demand for oil will be the same or greater while the actual supply of oil is decreasing. When prices get more expensive to buy a gallon of gasoline, these hybrid cars will still cost more money from the drivers pocket to maintain. This makes hybrid cars only a temporary solution to a permanent problem. Fuel cell cars, on the other hand, would not be limited by oil and is a smarter choice to help slow down the effects of peak oil.

Fuel Cells

* What is a fuel cell? A fuel cell takes an elemental source, such as hydrogen, and in a sense splits it into a positive and negative charge. The negative charge is sent through a circuit as electricity and comes back to the fuel cell where is it combined with another element such as oxygen. The type that is used for automobiles is called a Polymer Electrolyte Membrane (PEM) fuel cell. This model uses hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity. Hydrogen gas flows through channels on the anode (positive) side of the cell and are split into positive and negative ions. The PEM membrane prevents the negative ions from flowing through it and forces them to travel along an external circuit to get to the cathode side of the cell. Here, the positive and negative ions combine with the oxygen and form water as the byproduct. The external circuit of negative hydrogen ions can be used to turn an electric motor or work any other electric appliance in the car (Fuel Cell Vehicles, 2008).

How Safe is Hydrogen?

* Hydrogen gas is thought to be an unsafe element. There has been a few disastrous events in the past that has put this fear of hydrogen in our minds such as the Hindenburg and the Challenger disasters. The truth is, The risk of using hydrogen in fuel cell vehicles is about the same risk as driving your car today (Walton, 2001, 20). “BMW conducted numerous crash tests to see what would happen if the hydrogen tank was punctured or damaged. Their engineers report the liquid hydrogen dissipated harmlessly into the air (Walton, 2001, 21).” Gasoline on the other hand tends to set on the ground in puddles and is more likely to be a danger in an accident (El-Hasan, 2005, 4).

What About The Efficiency?

* It’s true that hydrogen has its efficiency problems. The entire process from charging the hydrogen to making the wheels on the car turn is only forty percent while our current combustion engine’s efficiency is about sixty percent (Bossel, 2003, p. 2). This is not really a problem. Keep in mind that the world is made up of mostly water and water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen. This means that the supply of hydrogen can be conceived as limitless.








I want to know YOUR thoughts on a few things.

How big of a problem is our current fuel situation?
Do you believe we have hit "peak oil?"
How plausible to you think a hydrogen economy is?
What do you see as a problem with starting a hydrogen economy?
Do you believe there are better alternatives then the hydrogen fuel cell/hydrogen economy?
Anything else you would like to comment on?









If you want to know more, please read my attached research paper "Alternatives to the Pain at the Pump:Supporting Fuel Cell Vehicles for a Hydrogen Economy."










Reference List


Bossel, U. Efficiency of hydrogen fuel cell, diesel-SOFC-hybrid and battery electric vehicles. European Fuel Cell Forum. Retrieved April 16, 2008 from http://www.efcf.com/reports/E04.pdf

El-Hasan, M. First responders get hydrogen car safety facts in Torrance. Hydrogen and Fuel Cell Saftey. Retrieved April 16, 2008 from http://www.hydrogenandfuelcellsafety.info/archives/2005/dec/responders.asp

Fuel Economy. Fuel cell vehicles. Retrieved April 8, 2008 from http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fuelcell.shtml

Haubrich, J., & Meyer, B. (2007, August 15). Peak oil. Economic Commentary. Retrieved April 21, 2008 from Academic Search Premier database.

Walton, M. Could hydrogen be the fuel of the future? CNN Science and Technology. Retrieved April 16, 2008 from http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/science/03/16/hydrogen.cars/

1.)I guess...big enough?
2.)I have no idea. What do you think I am, an economics expert?
3.)Who cares? Hydrogen cars are badass. Build me one, now!
4.)Are there problems? I don't see any, if there are.
5.)None that I've heard about.
6.)As a blind optimist, I'm obligated to feel assured that everything will work itself out in the end. If it doesn't, that's fine too, because I'll either be dead by then, or I'll find my way around somehow. So I don't really know what I'm talking about at all. So you can disregard all of my answers if that makes you happy. Good luck on your paper...or whatever it is you're doing.

How big of a problem is our current fuel situation?
It's one of the top things on my mind and I don't even have a car.
Do you believe we have hit "peak oil?"
No.
How plausible to you think a hydrogen economy is?
It could work but only if the people are willing to make it work. Most people will probably stick to their gas guzzlers.
What do you see as a problem with starting a hydrogen economy?
People are unwilling to change to something new.
Do you believe there are better alternatives then the hydrogen fuel cell/hydrogen economy? Before switching to hydrogen fuel cells we could start with Hybrids...
Currently the BEST hybrid I have seen is a 2 seater that gets 300 mpg. It cost around $30,000. If we could get those going around I think we would have ALOT more time to shift to a hydrogen system. Change takes time so we should stall while we get it going.
Anything else you would like to comment on?

Get outta here, Porsche! Stop trolling your own thread!
Kekekekekekeeke.
YOU TOO, X!

Get outta here, Porsche! Stop trolling your own thread!
Kekekekekekeeke.
YOU TOO, X!

I was reading teh paperrrrr!
And now I answer questions.


How big of a problem is our current fuel situation? It's a pretty huge problem.
Do you believe we have hit "peak oil?" Definitely.
How plausible to you think a hydrogen economy is? It's a lot more reasonable than just fixing the broken leg with a band aid.
What do you see as a problem with starting a hydrogen economy? People won't buy it at first because it could be risky.
Do you believe there are better alternatives then the hydrogen fuel cell/hydrogen economy? Possibly, but this could work.
Anything else you would like to comment on? Super awesome paper!

Solution: move to the US, buy an efficient, Japanese car and enjoy cheap fuel.

How big of a problem is our current fuel situation?
- Company pays me for travelling expenses and carpooling helps
Do you believe we have hit "peak oil?"
- It'll get worse
How plausible to you think a hydrogen economy is?
- not while companies like shell buy any alternative for oil
What do you see as a problem with starting a hydrogen economy?
- see above
Do you believe there are better alternatives then the hydrogen fuel cell/hydrogen economy?
- not as long as we're stuck to combustion engines
Anything else you would like to comment on?
- na

1. How big of a problem is our current fuel situation?
Parents and people with cars are complaining about rising cost and also news people are saying that it will continue to rise... i guess it seems pretty bad.
2. Do you believe we have hit "peak oil?"
hmm.. not really, nah!
3. How plausible to you think a hydrogen economy is?
Its plausible and all good but people are too used to gas, some will consider hydrogen economy but most will just probably stick to the usual... so dont think it'll be too successful though within time it might...
4. What do you see as a problem with starting a hydrogen economy?
Well, if i had a car(i wish) and i've always fueling my car with gas/petrol and then there's hydrogen... within the choice of two... im not gonna try out hydrogen... it sounds pretty weird too!
5. Do you believe there are better alternatives then the hydrogen fuel cell/hydrogen economy?
Hmmm... maybe but hydrogen economy seems reasonable enough... problem is mainly with the people and their thinking and unwillingness to switch..
6. Anything else you would like to comment on?
nope!

1) In the UK it is now at arround £1.10 a letre so about $2.20 equivelant
2) I'm sure I remember hearing that a current UK supply runs out in 2012
3) It's cleaner and apparently rather safe. Thus it should be done already.
4) would it be possible that suh depand causes a lack of oxygen in the air? Would this affect the size of our atmosphere?
5) Oil fuels - Just remove all those thousands of planes and ships that are for not for ecenomic benifits.
Anything else you would like to comment on? = Corn power.

I'd have to advise against using corn for an alternative fuel. Last week I attended a panel discussion about companies being environmentally friendly and overcrowding of people. What the five professional panelist agreed on is that corn ethanol would still pollute the atmosphere. Also, according to our lifestyles today, each person uses about 20 acres of land to sustain them when in reality we only have 4 acres available for each person. This would mean that there is not enough room to grow enough corn to supply the world with our demand for this fuel.

Also, from my research, the problem isn't that we are stuck using combustible engines. Toyota would be glad to put out a hydrogen car to the market! The problem is... how do you refuel it? This is a role that oil companies are expected to take on and provide stations like gas stations to fill up the cars. Car companies do not want to put out a car that people can't easily refuel so we are at a standstill. We could have this technology on the road sooner, but until someone solves this problem there will be no hydrogen cars.

Keep the answers coming! ^_^

1. How big of a problem is our current fuel situation?
It's a pretty big problem and getting worse, gas prices are still on the rise. Where I work, we use a Diesel and we are required to refill the truck if it gets down to half a tank of diesel, so we have to refill it just about every other day, the average price on filling it up(from half a tank) is over $260. Diesel here where I live in south Georgia has reached over $4.39/g.
2. Do you believe we have hit "peak oil?"
If we haven't yet then we are going to very soon, I mean just look at the rate at which we burn oil and all the products refined from oil. We knew we'd hit bottom eventually, but most people thought it wouldn't be in our lifetime, so they were just fine keeping things going like they were.
3. How plausible to you think a hydrogen economy is?
I think it would be very plausible, is the questions of safety are taken care of.
4. What do you see as a problem with starting a hydrogen economy?
I think alot of people wouldn't buy a hydrogen car unless the questions of safety are addressed.
5. Do you believe there are better alternatives then the hydrogen fuel cell/hydrogen economy?
I haven't done too much research on this subject so I'd have to research and get back to you.
6. Anything else you would like to comment on?
Not really. :)

Er quick question Porsche...

Have we found out how to extract hydrogen without using more energy than it provides?

In a way, yes we have.

There is an abundant supply of hydrogen here on earth, it's just that is doesn't normally exist in it's diatomic state. In order to use it as a fuel, we must somehow extract it from other compounds. There are five possible solutions to this. They are biological water splitting, photoelectrochemical water splitting, reforming of biomass and wastes, solar thermal water splitting, and renewable electrolysis (NREL: National Renewable Energy Laboratory, 2007, ¶1). The biological method uses micro organisms to break up organic compounds to get hydrogen gas. The photoelectrochemical method uses sunlight to directly split water into hydrogen and oxygen gas. Even though this is the most environmentally friendly method, the efficiency is only 12.4% at this time. Reforming biomass and wastes separates hydrogen atoms from organic compounds by turning the organic compounds into a gas. The most promising method, solar thermal water splitting, uses an extremely concentrated beam of light to heat up water to the point where the bonds of water break. A final method uses electrolysis from power plants such as hydro dams and windmills to send an electric current through water to split the water into its elemental components. It is predicted though, that this method would only be used in desperate times, when the demand of hydrogen is astronomically high.

So to fully answer your question no there isn't a way to do this without using more energy that hydrogen would supply, but the methods I mentioned use renewable energy to make the hydrogen. We can assume that this renewable energy is infinite in amount and therefore removing that concern.

To learn more, visit http://www.nrel.gov/hydrogen/proj_production_delivery.html

I think we should just skip Hydrogen altogether and start using metroids as our main source of energy.
The galaxy is at peace, you know, and scientists have just made the amazing discovery that metroids, under certain conditions, can unleash huge amounts of energy. This is great for us, because the last metroid is in captivity, so using it will be very convenient!

Please explain. I don't understand what you are saying. How does a chunk of iron give off enough energy to power the world's economy?

Wait, are you talking to Hopeless Compser? Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I think he means metroids from the video game. Again, unless I'm wrong. Or if this didn't have to do with his comment, then disregard this.

My alternative to high prices: college.

Granted I'll have a car in college, but I'm only planning on using it at most once a week to go to church. BG is such a small campus and town that its easy to walk everywhere. Plus parking stinks.

Thankfully, I only have to fill up once every 1.5-2 weeks. However, the price sucks. I went from paying $20 a fill up to $30 in less than three months. When we get to the pressing point, new things will be showing up quickly.

One thing I though was insteresting. I was watching the news and I heard a debate about how oil companies make mucho money. Apparently in reality, from what they said, oil companies actually don't make any more than an average working person once all the taxes are taken out. Whether or not that's truth, I have to look into. But me, liking this kind of stuff, will probably look into it. Or not.

I have noticed E-85 pumps popping up all over the place. Whether or not we like it I'm thinking this is the next step.

Corn Ethanol is a horrible idea.

... :heh: I thought he was talking about meteors. XD

It's good that you walk places instead of driving. It is better for your health and saves fuel. It is also a good thing that E-85 pumps are popping up everywhere, BUT keep in mind that this is not the ultimate solution. We must look farther into the future to a hydrogen powered economy in order to truly save fuel and the environment. Corn Ethanol and Hybrid Cars are just pawns in moving to this idea.

1) Not a legitimate problem. It's the economy and the power of the people at work. Current gasoline prices are the correct prices.
2) Unlikely.
3) It's a next-generation construct that will require heavy investment. A full hydrogen economy will be established only when oil reserves become such a pressing matter that gasoline becomes effectively "unusable." Not in this lifetime.
4) The adjustment process.
5) The best thing we as citizens can do is conserve. Especially us North Americans.

Edit:
6) When available technology becomes inconvenient, we either a) substitute away, or b) innovate away. When neither are possible, we conserve.

Edit:
6) When available technology becomes inconvenient, we either a) substitute away, or b) innovate away. When neither are possible, we conserve.

Or we regress and lost alot of our modern conveniences

Or we fight over what little fuel is left =\

Or we regress and lost alot of our modern conveniences

Or we fight over what little fuel is left =\

Hence the game, "Fuel of War" (2008) (PC + Xbox 360)
Where nations rage war against others for fuel.
I can see it happening now....

Anyhow:

1) BAD! I just started driving and gawd damn is the fuel expensive ;(....
2) The only explanation for the price rise.
3) Plausible for a temporary alternative.
4) V8? F1? D1?....=(
5) We just have to wait for someone to invent one...

1. I'd say its pretty damn bad! Some people in the world are topping 5 or even 6 dollars a gallon, and pretty much no one in the US pays less than 4. I know I'm not getting alot of rides to school next year, and pretty soon, if the prices keep soaring, the school district won't keep school buses anymore. If we ever hit 5 dollars, we're in trouble. :o

2. No, but in about 20 years, I think we will. Everyone will be bitching, but all the goverments will be to blame for not wanting to lose the oil money. <_<

3. It could be the same as a gas economy! If there is no more gas, everyone will HAVE to use hydrogen, so all these politicians can't say shit about how it will disrupt the country's economy.

4. The only problem I see is getting people to change to hydrogen. For some reason, us humans don't like change. XD

5. Electric cars might be better. Instead of paying for hydrogen gas, you just plug your car into your electric socket. Plus, I think electric cars get more miles per gallon and go faster. :heh:

6. I don't know why we can't just stop digging for oil if we have other means of driving, such as hybrid and electric cars. But in reality, its really because people are greedy and need their money. Car companies DO have hybrid cars, but they are double the price of their regular counterparts! And in a recession? Who the hell is going to be able to afford a 35-50 thousand dollar car? Also, nobody has electric cars for the same reason. I think these people can keep being greedy, because their grandkids are going to pay for it. <_<

Sorry, I'm not going to stick to the poll format.

I'd rather use a hydrogen car than an electric car any day. However, the freaking oil companies need to be taught a lesson before it can happen. Personally, I think the only thing that can really make that happen is either a mass boycott against them (which will never effectively happen) or else the world running out of oil and them going bankrupt because they have nothing to sell.

Furthermore, it's not like fossil fuels and ethanol are the only combustibles in the world! Combustible oil can be made from numerous things; if the world learned to recycle, for example, unused turkey parts, oil could be extracted which could be used to fuel cars. This may not pollute any less, but it would be a heck of a lot more renewable than fossil fuels. Why then, is the world not readily converting over? Because of OPEC and other oil companies.

Well, they're slowly starting to introduce Hydrogen cars. I think Honda has been/will be leasing them out in limited numbers, and I hear a few other companies want to start pushing them out by 2012. If there's a signifigant demand for hydrogen, someone will rise to fill it (and make billions).
I think Honda also plans to give them away to celebrities and crap, to boost their popularity.
I also think that I'm just quoting what I read on wired or some other blog recently.

Honestly, none of these "problems" worry me. When people want to change, they do. I don't think we're going to kill ourselves by melting the planet, and I don't think the world economy is going to collapse. I think these kinds of problems sort themselves out naturally.
I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think
I'd explain the reasons behind my reasons-ing, but that would take a very long time. Rest easy though; my supercomputer brain has already run countless simluations of the future, and we're completely safe. lolz.
On a less positive note, furries will continue to grow in number until they take over the entire internet. The Chinese government will rise to the occassion and build a clean new internet for the planet, but this one will also be overrun. Slowly, furry culture will seep into and transform our own, until...well, I don't know. My brain only runs simulations out to fifty years. Any further than that, and things get fuzzy because of the Schrodinger Catz Effect. I apologize.

I've introduced the idea of cold fusion energy way back maybe a year ago, in the form of a cryogen type source... but alas, I've not the knowledge to deepen the research for it... though maybe as I mature I shall return to pursue the issue :P

Not sure if I reply to something like this before..
1. It is an economic problem at present cause by Futures traders who are pushing up the price of fuel beyond what is their actual value. Despite, oil being non-renewable, there are articles where there is no proof of a real shortage at present. Many countries have stored up a large amounts of oil. However, the oil prices are unlikely to go down and eventually there is a need to look for cheaper alternatives.
2. No. Perhaps that have been a large increase in demand, but is production really lowering?
3. It might be the possible way to go after we use up all the oil. That is to say if it is cheaper than other alternatives available.

What do you see as a problem with starting a hydrogen economy?
The infrastruture is a major problem, even before safety is to be taken into considering. How many countries have the technology to produce and store the large amounts of hydrogen? The initial costs might be a great barrier. Furthermore, environmental issues always take a backseat if you are about to face recession. Why wouldn't people consider reverting backwards and using more coal powered generators?
Anything else you would like to comment on?
Build more bicycle lanes. It is all back to manual work! Please do not support biofuel that are related to vegetable oil as it will DIRECTLY affect food prices.

They won't use Hydrogen because they think if an engine using Hydrogen explodes, it will have the same effect as a H-Bomb, i.e, it will evaporate any bio-organisms in the blast range instantly.

Not true, the H-Bomb is propelled by atomic burst strength, an engine explosion is propelled by atomic speed strength.


Even though scientists know that, they aren't allowed to say because the fuel companies are making millions more on the prices, and the government won't say anything since they get a big portion of that cash, so basically we are going to drain ourselves of petrol and THEN go to Hydrogen :lol:.


And they won't use stuff like Ethanol or Vegetable Oil because when it burns the fire is not see-able by human eye, pretty stupid, since i think anyone not blind can see a shaking haze in the air and feel the heat.

They won't use Hydrogen because they think if an engine using Hydrogen explodes, it will have the same effect as a H-Bomb, i.e, it will evaporate any bio-organisms in the blast range instantly.

Not true, the H-Bomb is propelled by atomic burst strength, an engine explosion is propelled by atomic speed strength.


Even though scientists know that, they aren't allowed to say because the fuel companies are making millions more on the prices, and the government won't say anything since they get a big portion of that cash, so basically we are going to drain ourselves of petrol and THEN go to Hydrogen .
What the hell? Car companies have already produced hydrogen cars and have released studies showing that hydrogen is even safer than gasoline during crashes and such. Nobody's worried about hydrogen being dangerous, lol.

And they won't use stuff like Ethanol or Vegetable Oil because when it burns the fire is not see-able by human eye, pretty stupid, since i think anyone not blind can see a shaking haze in the air and feel the heat.
I'm pretty sure that would also be solved pretty easily just by adding a chemical that does give off color when burnt to the ethanol fuels. We still won't use them though, because they're stupid. Stupid I say!

I'm pretty sure that would also be solved pretty easily just by adding a chemical that does give off color when burnt to the ethanol fuels. We still won't use them though, because they're stupid. Stupid I say!

Yeah, they can just add a coloring but they won't because it'll be cheap because anyone can make it.

And, only certain countries and certain places are allowing Hydrogen cars, the smart countries who care more about what next instead of money now off of a depleting resource.

^Well, of course. The smart countries always make the correct moves first. The rest follow.
For the record though, I'm pretty sure there aren't any governments out there stopping the use of Hydrogen. It's purely an economical thing. ;P

I think when enough people want Hydrogen cars (the number is increasing! Being green is cool! Gas sucks!), car manufacturers will supply them to the general public. I think that around three of the major manufacturers are already starting to introduce them, so the others will have to make them to stay competitive.

You know, maybe I'm a bit cynical, but...maybe you're a bit optimistic... :P

Hence the game, "Fuel of War" (2008) (PC + Xbox 360)
Where nations rage war against others for fuel.
I can see it happening now...

Dude, as I see gas prices approaching 5 dollars/gallon, I have been wondering every day if something like the events in the game are what life will be like in 20 years. x_x Although, the 20 dollar gas and the 5 gallon limit, along with worldwide hunger and poverty kinda seems like a far cry just because of no more oil. XD

Anyone heard of compressed air cars?

Sounds promising

http://zeropollutionmotors.us/

Yeah, my friend mentioned them to me a few days ago. If what he says is true, in my opinion they could be an even better alternative to hydrogen. The problem I see is, where would we get the energy to run an air compressor? Let's look at an extreme situation where all cars are running on compressed air. There would be an EXTREMELY large demand for electricity to run these compressors. Most electricity today is made by fossil fuels. There is hope! In the next, I believe, 5-7 years there will be 20 new nuclear power plants built. I'm not sure if this is only in the US or globally (which companies are scrambling to find engineers of all disciplines for this project).

Well, knowing our "all trusty" government, they probably won't fund such research as they are getting profit from gas

YEah, and now they already expect gas prices in US to reach $5.00 a gallon for regular unleaded within the next couple weeks. Best advice for now would be getting a scooter (about 60mpg or more) or a hybrid. Personally, I support hydrogen powered cars but right now, trying to find a station with hydrogen is nearly impossible.

I'm pretty stoked about the compressed air cars...Its ALOT easier than hydrogen...Just need an air compressor and you're set...It's getting the energy for it that could be a problem...[Solar is expensive but it'll work...Nukes sounds good too]

Solar energy is 15% efficient. x_x

Yar.

I thought it was funny. I was watching Fox News (Yeah, I know.) and they asked viewers to send in their thoughts about gas prices. And I quote


"I'm already buying my horse and buggy today"

Kinda funny. Kinda true. I don't really see an easy solution to this at all. Air compressed, hydrogen, electric, or whatever cars, while they may be around and a better alternative (duh) to gas, getting billions of people (not just the US) to switch won't be easy and in my opinion certainly won't be happening until the supply is pushed to the literal point of empty. While there's still gas underground people are going to still be using it. It's the sad opinionated Sondagger truth (which may or may not be true to you but to me it is) but that's how it goes.

I'm all for new efficiencies. Nuclear energy (if run well/efficiently/SAFELY/etc.) is a yay from me. And yes, the only time I drive now is to work as I cannot ride my bike on the interstate.

Now here is the solution to all American energy problems: Drill, Drill, Drill! In the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge! (Hint: It's sarcasm, I've never heard anything as stupid as that)

EDIT: Well, of course I have. But it sure IS stupid.

Well, knowing our "all trusty" government, they probably won't fund such research as they are getting profit from gas

Actually, that's not true. I really don't want to live to see this, but if the gas level of the world does get to the point of empty, as in fuel of war, they will have no choice but to do so. After all, knowing our gov't, they will also fight over what little there is left, and they will need SOMETHING to power all the tanks and other vehicles they use in the army. I think people will riot before peak oil though. I just don't think anyone here in the USA is going to pay more than $6 a gallon. And I'm certainly one of those people, even though I'm only 16. xD I'm sure as hell not getting up at 4AM every day to take the bus to school so some fucking oil company CEO can live in his 500 bedroom house (lol) with 7 ferraris. x_x And I don't want my first paychecks going to gas either.

Solar powered cars would be a good idea...if you lived in the desert, however if you live in a place like Wales where you never see the Sun, your cars not going to be working..ever, not even in Summer.

Water+Sugar Cane is an alternative that works just like Petrol, the problem is you have to wait 1 week for it to ferment so it can be used as fuel.

Zippy, if petrol uses oil and we are now having trouble finding oil, we're going to run out anyway.

The sensible thing to do now is to just stop buying Petrol and Diesel and all current forms of fuel being sold by greedy companies, this stops Oil being drained and then if we refuse to use Petrol/Diesel the government will have to let us use Hydrogen Cars or Sugar powered Cars.

But face it, too many idiots in the world who will not stop using Petrol and Diesel.

The problem with sugar cane and water is that sugar cane needs certain climates to grow. Just like with ethanol (corn), the cost of sugar (at least) will rise just like corn prices (along with other food) did.

I didn't know that sugar cane and water could be used as fuel. That's an interesting find (for me).

In the UK bread has increased by arround 30 pence but only 10 pence of that is claimed towards using corn as fuel. So in my oppinion an extra 10 pence on both bread and sugar is well worth being able to continue using such things as cars and plug sockets.

The sensible thing to do now is to just stop buying Petrol and Diesel and all current forms of fuel being sold by greedy companies, this stops Oil being drained and then if we refuse to use Petrol/Diesel the government will have to let us use Hydrogen Cars or Sugar powered Cars.

But face it, too many idiots in the world who will not stop using Petrol and Diesel.

That would seem to work in a virtuous way. A good way to stick it to the man, but that will do far more damage to the consumer than the supplier. If everyone stopped buying gas for a day, the international economy will stop dead in it's tracks. Trucks need gas. Planes need gas. Boats need gas. There's no avoiding it. Without gas there would be a major distribution problem of food and other necessities of life. Nice idea in thought, but it just isn't plausible.

In my opinion, I believe the government is purposly raising gas prices to repay debts for war and what-not, I mean, other government officials and media report that they've had no record of any oil really being low or in danger of being low within our territory, neither of that of any further issues with oil sites in Iraq or Iran.



And as for saving gas money and fuel these days, I recall seeing a video somewhere in which an Australian engineer and his brother engineered a motor or power generator that effeciently could produce energy at about 80% less the effort of what we use today. They claim that you could actually use the generator to power your whole house without paying for an electric bill, or that you could use it to power a car much better and a much less cost. Though, I can't seem to remember where I saw it, and I can't find it either.

In my opinion, I believe the government is purposly raising gas prices to repay debts for war and what-not
There is no need to invoke a conspiracy. The rising oil price is well within the range of what is to be expected with a sharply increasing demand all over the world and a limited capacity to pump/refine oil (the IEA (http://www.iea.org/) has more on this), especially China and India are in demand of much oil. In addition, the dollar is doing very poorly and the political situation in the Middle East isn't exactly perfect with the tension building up between Iran and Israel, which naturally has an adverse effect on oil prices.

But the important point is: The government doesn't profit from higher gas prices (the oil companies do). The government also doesn't have much influence over the price of oil, the only way the government can effect oil prices is by charging taxes (and there have been no changes in taxes so far).


I mean, other government officials and media report that they've had no record of any oil really being low or in danger of being low within our territory, neither of that of any further issues with oil sites in Iraq or Iran.The oil production in the US has peaked some 30 years ago, it has been declining ever since. In the case of the US, it's not that the oil companies aren't trying to get more oil. There just isn't much left to discover (those field expected to be on the Outer Continental Shelf included).

My 5 cent: We should stop panicking over high oil prices and start investing in sustainable technologies. Demanding more crude oil production and increased refining capacities (as the US does) will only lead to continued growth of demand and even faster depletion of oil as a resource. Why not instead pass legislation that improve the efficacy of cars instead? Of course investing much money in research to develop sustainable energy sources is the only way to solve the problem in the long term and it has to be done now. Don't expect oil to ever be cheap again. (:

Volkswagon is releasing a car that gets almost 300mpg next year. That's nice, at least.

282 miles per gallon (120 kilometers per liter) to be exact. XD Its also a micro car that is supposed to be shaped like a bullet and shut off automatically when you sit at a stop light. So I guess we'll be seeing beer cans driving on the road now. XD

Turns out the 282 mpg figure refers to Imperial gallons; the proper figure when converted to U.S. gallons is 235 mpg.
(:

I'll still take it, though. X3
It might go even lower than that, though. Didn't they also say that the one they're using now is only a one-stroke engine, and that they were probably going to bump it up to a two-stroke for the production cars?

Finally found it :unsure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jivb7lupDNU
Again the Japanese has done it well :heh:

Oh boy.

OK, let me put on my skeptical googles for a moment.

They say the car runs on water. Great. You can't use water to generate electricity, unless you build a dam OR you split it up into hydrogen and oxygen.

So what this car supposedly does: It takes H2O, splits it up into hydrogen and oxygen. USES the hydrogen in a fuel cell, so that water is the only exhaust of the car. You know what this sounds like? Yet another "free energy" scam.

To split up water into its constituents you need energy and when you burn those constituents to generate electricity it won't be with 100% efficiency. That's what the second law of thermodynamics tells us. It means you don't get as much energy out of it as you put into it. That's why perpetua mobilia don't work.

PS: I hate the credulous and uncritical mainstream media, that reports stuff like this.
PPS: And the education system that fails to convey a basic scientific literacy.

i dont think we've reached peak oil prices?!

Please elaborate on that blanket statement.