Hey everyone,

I know it has been a long time since I walked these forums as the proud moderator I used to be. However, I have returned (to some extent) and I have to say that I'm very disappointed by the quality of composition on this board as of lately. I've listened to a lot of pieces today, and not even the few remaining regulars (Whose compositions I used to like) have impressed me even the slightest bit. It is truly a shame as I used to hold Ichigo's forums as kind of a "high platform" from all the other composition websites I've come across on the web.

I fondly remember highlights from composers such as SirDotDot, Mazeppa, Moebius, Michael, Marlon, Alphonse and even a piece or two from Deathraider. Although today, what is there to listen to? It's pathetic to say the least, and it is truly sad that such a great place as Ichigo's Forums has sunken to such a low level, composition-wise. If I remember correctly, I've been a member of Ichigos since... well, half-a-decade ago when the forums were still hosted by "Sarah" (nowadays known as "Spoonpuppet").

Needless to say, I've been around here for a long time, and while walking that long-wound path I've come across some incredible pieces of music that have defined these forums year after year. That very special quality of music has set this forum apart from all other composition-forums, in my opinion.

I can understand if you "new" members completely disagree with me now, and since there are virtually no old-timers left... I expect to get no real input on this post, but still, believe this; The composition forum of Ichigos used to be the top #1 composition forum out there: Period. We had some incredible talent.

It's up to you guys to uphold that standard. I've listened to perhaps 60 different pieces today, all composed by members of Ichigos, and I can honestly tell that 80% of these compositions are completely worthless. The remaining 20% have something special, but are by no means utilizing it. In my opinion, about 5% of these composers have incredible potential.

Composers of Ichigo's Forums: Don't you dare to sink the legend of Ichigo's to the bottom with you mediocrity. I understand that there are different levels of composers here, and by no means am I bashing on the beginners.

Despite from what some people think, I still take pride in representing the music section of Ichigo's Forums, which is a great privilege in my opinion. I still think that this small little corner of the immense world wide web has something special to offer. I'm quite aware that most the regulars from "my days" are long gone, but I'm sure that the new blood of Ichigos will live up to their potential, and more importantly; To the true potential of Ichigo's Forums as a whole.

Now is the time to start composing from your heart, your mind and your very soul. What the fuck are you waiting for, seriously? Newcomers; Do your best, and feel free to ask around for advice. In no way is this post directed at you.

To you people who categorize yourselves as Old-Timers: Get a grip on, seriously. You're all slipping and I'm a hundred percent sure that you agree with me. If you don't, you're seriously delusional.

Four years ago I had the luxury of being part of the greatest composing forum on the web; and since about two years ago I had the privilege of being a moderator of that very group. Now, however, it is simply a shadow of what it once was. What amazes me is that we have (in my opinion) even more talented composers than before, yet I can't find anyone writing music to their actual potential. I am seriously hoping to be able to listen to some great music that I'm sure this forum is capable of composing.

The work being put out right now is embarrassing.

That's all, people.

I agree.

I would have to admit, I've fallen in that pit of the mediocrity, from whatever group that I would have to be put into. I have, although, been putting a strong focus on my instrument (the piano) since my main strengths and career is concerning it; although I am taking private lessons (which I was granted without paying for them) for composition, theory, music philosophy, history/etc. I have been building a large knowledge of traditional theory (going into 20th and 19th century soon) and have done Orchestration and many compositional aspects concerning the emotional expression and structure of writing music.

So, what I've been trying to do to uphold an image here (since I agree 100% with Noir's words) I have been trying to give the best comments that I can and hopefully teach others what I know--even if I have not shown the "world" what I can do by proving it or whatever.

I am with Noir on this, and I am here to help. I am currently working on a large-scale project, which is only in the stages of endless themes and motifs. I may not post it on here, but I would be happy to showcase a little here and there when it comes about.

More to say? Maybe in the Ichigo's Composition and Music sections.

Yep,

SKG

Mmm, I still have pieces of your's, SirDotDot's and Alphonse's on my mp3 player. I really do miss that time where I could experience a daily nutritious helping of inspiring compositions made by a virtual unknown, in turn inspiring my compositional skills. Even though I haven't actually composed nonstop ever since I've joined, it's the analysis of others' compositions and the inspiration to compose I gain from the pieces that drive me to better myself as a composer. I joined Ichigo's in Sep. of '06 and underwent a 1.5 yr hiatus, but I intend to do my part in contributing to this wonderful community of composers and furthering the knowledge of others as well as mine. :)

Added to the post should be that members who have something to say to me should do so directly instead of going to my moderator colleagues behind my back.

Heheh, harsh words, Noir, though I can understand how you feel. I made a similar topic once on a game making forum once. It was basically the same as yours: "Are you people even trying?"

Everyone flipped out in public, but I got a ton of PMs agreeing with me, including the one from the mod who had to close my flame-ridden topic.

What I'm saying is, even if people give you a lot of flak for your post, I'm sure you have people who agree with you, even if they're the silent minority. I can't really judge these forums though, since I haven't listened to anything to come out of them in years.

If you can't agree with the quality of the composer here, I'd suggest helping these new guys out, or helping them out more if you're not already.

And now I'm going to check out your latest compositions, to decide whether or not you have any real right to talk to our other composers this way.

Edit: Nevermind, the swell at 0:25 in Golden Mellow was well done enough to make me smile, so it looks like you're trying. ;)

PS: Have you played Mario Galaxy? Mellow reminds me of the story book theme from that game around the 2:00 mark. It was a great song though, so I can't blame you if you were accidentally inspired by it.

And I also remember thinking Ichigos was an amazing hideout for composers when I first joined. I don't know why I stopped checking out the composition section, but it might be because the quality has been dropping, like you said. Who knows?

woah...

If you can't agree with the quality of the composer here, I'd suggest helping these new guys out, or helping them out more if you're not already.


We have, and we have been giving a lot of feedback and guiding people through suggestions for teaching them the tools they need to compose and get better. Many people don't take it, or bash it and just ignore it, yet a few some will appreciate it and some will even incorporate it.

You're back! <3

Now that I have been reinstated *cough* I will most certainly try to me bore active! I'm sorry I haven't been posting or commenting much lately due to me trying to adjust to college, but I am excited to use my new knowledge to improve my own compositions and to pass on!

Edit: Hahahahahahahaha! Apparently I'm becoming dyslexic! That should read "be more active", rather than "me bore active".

It's sad to hear why people cannot read this message, but only make two days ago, and really take it for what it's worth. I am sure that members even older than I can say agree that Noir7's post was correct. I do feel a large decline in the effort of the music section; it has turned from that little section of the web, even Ichigo's, where it was fun and active with a lot of people trying to achieve the same share goal: To become the best composer the possibly can be. And no, these all weren't people wanting to become composers or song-writers or even performers. People know that music is all about connections and those with the immense of talent and promise will only make it to the beginning stages.. then it's all about business and interaction from there.

But anyway, I am getting off topic, but it is a shame that people are bashing this and have taken a very negative view on the post. If you knew where some of us were coming from, you'd completely get every word that was said. I have already been trying to past several months to be more active and to incorporate a better learning environment, even despite the lack of activity. I never see maybe more than 10 bold threads, and there's at least 5-some pages of threads that will never see the light of day anymore, and we can never see a return to how it was. So why do we dwell on it? We're not. We're dwelling on what has happened the past year or two, at it's large decline, but now we have to dwell on the present. Yes, people are writing things, but not nearly as many and people composing a lot less confident, I feel. I am not singling out anybody, but as an overall feeling, there's less people wanting to truly compose for themselves and to even open up and understand what people with experience are telling them.

And I know what question could pop up, "Well, you say you want them to compose for themselves, yet you want them to suck-up to you and take whatever you have to say down the the deepest wells of their heart to make some change for themselves." That is not what I mean, so I am just getting that out of the way. The ONLY type of "real critic" that is tolerated here is one that points out all the flaws and can be encouraging at the same time. The critic wants you to notice what is wrong and then it should inspire the composer to fix it or to think about it in a different way. Sure, any-a-composer has gotten in fits with a critic, or many critics, but critics will only argue against the stubborn composer, because they want to see improvement and even more accomplishment from a composer. Why the hell are we even on Ichigo's in the first place? Do you really think I came here to post and have everyone say, "Oh that's great!" No, I wanted feedback, good, bad or otherwise. And if you aren't on here to take any kind of feedback, then I would suggest you hit your homepage button and go on home!

Many people forget that Music is ever-changing. It isn't really truly a simply hobby for anyone who has the urge to take the time to post something o the internet. It's obviously something they LOVE to do. If you want to show something off or maybe get pointers on something, wouldn't that be like at your job? Get more done, tally it up, and then you have bragging rights and then your proud of it? Or maybe when your boss comes in and said you've done a s**t job, then you start to realize it and do your job better. And this is why I do not believe that when people who on Ichigo's say that music is JUST a hobby, or maybe composing is just a hobby, or whatever.

I am probably not going to be a composer, if at all, a good one. I am definitely not gearing my career or schooling up to become a composer. But, does that mean it doesn't mean anything to me? I care when people say nice things, but I care even more when people bash it, and I care the most when people critic (either harsh or completely uplifting) my work. I just want to show people my music and then maybe they like it, or hate it, or possibly see potential in it and help me along to try and achieve that. I don't post because, "It comes from my heart, and it's my own expression's release!" Hahah, that always makes me laugh. I used to say that, and it's just a phrase that people use to convey that they are some great composer because they have some HUGE emotional connection through music. People, please, I am sorry, but no-one that has gotten far in music (either "today or yesterday") has EVER said something like that, unless they are some s**t pop band or music "artist" that you see on MTV or VH1 or Country or Rap channels--whatever. A true musical artist knows that music is a reality. Yes, it's an expression and a release from stress, but music is also a WORK of ART. It took Brahms 20 years to write his first symphony, because he wanted to make it a perfect work, and even had pressures from the outside world. Why would he not want to be critiqued when he spent so much time trying to perfect it to himself, using un-biased ears. He was a try musical artist. It wasn't an "Expression's Release" at all. Sure, their emotion and character that is Brahms in it, but really people? The only real music that is any release of your emotions is of live music, or improvised music, or something along those lines. It's because it's in the moment. I can't TELL you how many times I've improvised at the piano, taken stuff from it, and I tell that it's horrible crap, but the emotion and what I was feeling was there when I played it, maybe not after or when it's on paper.

Composition is an art. I've never known an art that wasn't judged or looked highly upon when technical skill was involved, and never looked down when original creativity came into play. This is true with Painting, Photography, Dancing, Cooking, Performing, etc. etc. etc.

I am not trying to support any one way of thinking over the other, but I just want to put Ichigo's--not back to the way it was.. you can never (or should never) revert back to the past--back on it's 'high platform' and once again become a great little forum for people to compose with intentions of enjoying it, but as it of a dedication of hard work and whole-heartedness. And I want to get people to really think about their critiques and how to approach someone who needs a little bit of sharpening to make their skills useful for them to create a better version of their piece, and to enjoy it, because now they have a better understanding of the reality of music.

I really do hope that we can all agree under a roof that anew has to come, as I completely believe that it does. And this is, in no way, putting pressure on beginners or maybe people who really have only written a composition, but for the people who are struggling because the environment isn't supportive. I have a question for the administration and moderation team, do you advertise Ichigo's anywhere? It seems that many people have come across it through googling Anime Sheet Music and what-not. Luckily, a lot of talent has come by, but it just seems that Ichigo's--as a whole--has disappeared. I was just as active as I was back when it was popular (when I joined in '05) and there always seemed to be something going on in the Music Section, and it was very rare when it went "bare from bold" for more than a day. Now it seems that activity is strongly low, and has such a small base of people. I know people come and go, it's natural on the web, but that doesn't mean people have to go more than they come. Could we advertise Ichigo's a little bit more? I am not giving orders, but what would that do? Are there any "buddy-forums" or sites that we have? I am sure we do.

But listen, this has gotten a lot longer than I would have liked, but I guess when you need to prove a point, you have to back it up at the same time. I really do want to help the composition forum grow; I'd like to be apart of it to popularize Ichigo's again. Thank you.

Mazeppa

May I put a different spin on things? Perhaps people aren't looking at this right. Now being a new person myself not only to ichigo's but to composing (I've only started arranging in 2006). Before 2007 I didn't even have any music theory so what little I did shocked my teachers.

Although we can look at this dulldrum as a decline in Ichigos, perhaps it's not a downward spiral into something aweful. How about, wiping the slate clean for the next "generation"? From the sounds of it the old/original Ichigo members are leaving or being less active, and we're getting a crop of rookies or people with unrefined talent (whatever you want to call it). Perhaps by seeing this influx of newbies Ichigos will actually act as a incubator and help with their musical growth, rather than the negative view of seeing Ichigos become a place of permanent mediocrity.

I take back half the bad things I said about Noir after sitting back and seeing how things would explain themselves here... but the other half stays. I'm very defensive when anyone (even a supporter) attacks my passion. And you have to admit that the first post in my comp thread was not the "tough love" approach but pretty much dissing my work until you edited it (after I responded mind you). I didn't appreciate what I perceived as offensive, and I still don't.


Mazeppa's got the right idea and a good approach. Though for me personally, music is my passion (performing, composing, listening) but composing is a hobby... and since I'm in college it's most definately taking a back burner to academics and professional life. I can't afford the time to take more lessons or concentrate on composition. Mazeppa's tips are constructive and I appreciate that. I don't mind if someone just didn't have an ear for my piece, so long as they say something that can perhaps better the next one. I'm the wrong guy to impose "tough love" on for this place in my current status... I can't afford it. Constructive criticism with positive reenforcement however is what I thrive on.

No one is attacking your passion, but your carelessness of that very passion.

Anyway, I will close this thread now and I request that *any* hate mail (Not counting yours as such a mail, BigZenigata) will from now on be sent to me directly rather than to other people behind my back like pathetic cowards.

For the rest of you, read the new competition thread.

Maybe because Noir is being too harsh, which repels people.

Ok ok I am I hope we are learing here... Just got Logic Studio WOW.

So I did a quick one for you Mr Moderator straight from the heart to cheer you up.

I will try my best very soon to do something better.

also I can't see a lot of music submitted by users ? would it be a good idea to have a separate section whereby each user can only submit what they feel is worth a listen ?

also I can't see a lot of music submitted by users ? would it be a good idea to have a separate section whereby each user can only submit what they feel is worth a listen ?

Quit spamming the forums. There are ALREADY sections for composers to post their compositions. We've been doing that for ages. I don't know why this thread was even re-opened. The point was made, now it's just being overlook I feel.

Ok there is no such thing as forum spam, so where is your music for example ? where can I find it ?

His music is where it should be, in his own thread. And your suggestion is subjective, because not everybody gonna think the same of a piece. And everybody have their own thread for do that.

Wow... I am just a newbie here and this really struck me. My first thread post was "Can this even be played" with my transcribed song attached to it. It took me awhile to transcribe that one. Total of 5 hours. It's short but a wonderful piece. When I transcribe, I try to be as EXACT as possible. So I hope that music I uploaded makes you a bit happy.