I found out about 2 years ago whilst on holiday that I can compose music which was a stringe experience. I have always listened to music even when working and decided for a joke to compose a piece called Little Monster for a friend. This was done on my MAC with Logic 7 and took 8 days to write each note into the computer bit by bit. I have attached my attempt first time to use the software and first time to write my own music and the funny thing was that the start is not so good but it gets better as I learn more and more about what I can do.

I have since learnt a lot more technical stuff about music and I plan to re-write Little Monster Soon using proper scales :) I hope you can see the monster in the music anyway.

... of cause the past few months I have been learing to play keyboard which is going to be much quicker than entering notes by hand...

By listening to it, I can't tell if you're a genius or got lucky w/ random notes and cut and paste. No offense :P I don't hear that much organization in it, but that might have been intended. I like it, though, it has that sort of chaotic feeling, but at the same time, calm. You kept things fresh with a new synth sound coming in, nice. However, you might want to think about structure to add cohesion and remembrance to the piece, and a small percussion section might help. It almost sounds jazzy, so a bass and a drum set might do if that's your thing. ^_^

Oh thanks... it did take a lot of work and some paste work too of cause. it is strange some of the music just flowed out of me in minutes but the hard part was joining the it together - that took many many hours as I have had no formal teaching.

Yes it needs structure and I have now learnt that I need to base it on a scale so I am choosing Hirajoshi in Em and will re-do it.

My logic 7 has poor bass and drums so I plan also to upgrade to logic studio 8 when I have the time so that will add some depth to the tune.

I think basing music on some formal scale is a great idea it will allow me to write faster and control the music more - is that the right way to go ?

Yeah, basing it on a scale may or may not work. (i'd need to hear the result first, lol. xD) Since you need help on structure of songs and stuff, you might want to try this site. (http://musictheory.net) Make sure you check out the phrases and cadences lesson, cause that one will probably help you the most...:P

Hi thanks for that so at least I am on the write track :) actually I was just trying the first few bars and does not so correct so far so I will have to do some more work during the week. Have a listen tried to match the rhythm to the hirajoshi scale @ Em but not as easy as it looks at first!

hey Zippy cool site - the bit on composing minor scales if great probably explains why it sounds so bad towards the end as there are more detailed cords - i will have a look into it in the week see what comes up ;)

0.6 still sounds random....:heh: It might be better if you used a program like finale where you enter the notes onto sheet music, so you can see what places need work.....

...yes 0.6 is a case of moving notes into line with the key. I know I said I would do my homework on the technical stuff in the week but ended reading late last night Zzzzzz.

I understand now what is meant by melody and will work on the analysis by hand in the week (have to do normal work earn some money). Of cause using software is a great thing to help but I will do things by hand at first.

The little monster tune in fact is a good example because I did not really mean for it to have much of a melody, there are some underlying melodies that came out i think in the original version(?).

So if I apply some analysis and move the tune into a key such as hirajoshi in E minor (minor is the hardest - why do I always pick the hard one hmmm) I am very curious how things will come out ;)

Oh, E minor is kind of an easy key to compose in IMO. :P (so is C major and Db major...i dunno why, they are just easy to make music for. XD) So don't worry about it too much.

E minor is nice :) I had a look at a demo of Finale 2009 did not like it that much to be honest I also looked at Sibelius 5 which is nice I thought :) But I will probably end up getting logic 8 studio at weekend.

You may want to add reverberation to the piano. The sound is totally dry.

Yes logic 7 is dry :)

BUT NO LONG !!!!

Just installed Logic 8 Studio.....


.... is this quick one I did dry ? or dripping wet ?

Long weekend ahead I hope I can do churn out something to make you guys smile :)

Test 1 - No offense, but that sounded really random to me...:eek: If you added a melody to it, it would sound less random IMO.

Adding a melody doesn't necessarily prevent a song from sounding random... but I have to say that you let the software do the work for you here, so I won't comment unless you actually compose something yourself.

Yes that is my work this weekend - I will work on a basic melody for the piece I have in my mind for some time and do the analysis etc of the harmonies. The piece is called Ocean Butterfly and is about the wakening of a butterfly that then has to travel across oceans to find it new home and happyness. I have to find a good way to get the tunes out of my head and into Logic I will use keyboard to help also.

I think this is hard the first time to do it correctly and I guess it gets easier the more practice you have.

Ok I have started the entry. Followed the rules (correct I hope). Using hirajoshi Em and the initial is 5-3-1 then I am sort of mixing 3-2-1 and 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 to get the melody.

The harmony follows I-V-I (almost) that I have been reading about - in fact this theory stuff seems to work as if I stick to the rules it becomes easier and quicker to write.

more... off for beer now ;) maybe you can see where I am going with this ;)

What are those numbers? o_0

The melody sounds dull. And I don't get to visualize what you told. Probably with that scale is harder to simulate what you wanted. Be more free with the harmony and try to implement attractive chord progressions. But hey, not so 'bad' for to be starting. At least did not sounds so random.

If you take a look at other people threads here and Composing General Chat, maybe you will find some useful comments that can help you to gain more knowledge.

Okay, this doesn't make sense; not even theoretically. I am sorry to be blunt, but this is random and I don't feel anything from it. It's pieces like this when Noir7 get angry, because people aren't willing to put effort into their "music." Not even your numbers describing that composer's piece makes sense. How can you study theory when you're completely wrong in saying what it is.

I will only encourage hard work for you to truly make good music. Music is effort, with--of course--heart to go with it. If ones missing, it's out of balance.

I have to agree with Mazeppa. This song is really bad, it goes absolutely no where. It's as if you were just sitting there on logic studio putting in random notes. I am sorry if I am coming off as rude, but you really need to realize this...:(

If I were you, I would take some music theory classes at a college or something. It might also help to learn an instrument if you aren't already, but that's up to you. (since you have logic studio though, you might want to learn piano so you can play your ideas on a MIDI keyboard instead of clicking in every note)

I remember before I was in theory, that my songs sucked, but they started to get a little better about a month ago, after having been in the class all semester. If you take the class, the same might happen to you...your music might get better, might not, but it doesen't kill to try. :D

:) hahaha the song is not finished will take me some time and I have just sent all weekend reading up on harmonies. I am trying to work out the melody and harmony together of what is in my head so give me a little time. I hope the next version will have more substance to it.

The point is, either the piece is finished or not, you can't expect us to believe that what you have written is a draft and is a base for the rest of it. You didn't understand us.

This piece blows. There is 0% melody to it and about -10% harmony to un-support that. There's nothing creative about it, at all, and there's nothing to do with theory or modulation or harmony or whatever you're "studying" and "reading up" on.

Look, here, if you are still studying things, wait until you get to a point of understanding and THEN put it into practice. I am awaiting your progress.

Can someone help me how to describe this sequence:

I am using Em and the initial sequence is ib->viio->III->ib sounds good.

But then I go ?->?->ic->ic

I can't work out the ? chords which are G2,C3,E3 and C4.

It really works there but does not fit in with the harmony sequence I have for Em. I am new to this so maybe I have made a mistake :(

By the way working from the sound I found that in the bass line I was using 1st (ib) and 2nd(ic) inversions by accident (sounds so cool) is this a normal thing too ?

I was confused when you said "ib." I would use i6 for first inversion and i64 for second inversion when talking, since that is correct theory to begin with. Your progression works, but it's very weak, and when you're talking in terms of theory, you're only talking theory; what context are you speaking of? I need to know if this is a beginning, a cadence, etc. And what you mentioned next (?->?->ic->ic) all I see is two second inversion chords, which are very weak, unless they move into the next chord correctly (and also into it).

Again, more information, please. Kind sir

Thanks for the comment, well I found out that some of the "music" web sites give the wrong information on chord progressions hence my confusion about the sounds :)

http://www.musilosophy.com/chord-charts.htm found this web site very good reference I think. Tried some Em progressions using the roman/chord details progression a few times and now sounds cool.

If I write out all the chords I get i...V...i again as in the chart. BUT the progression diagram that I have suggests that you can start from VII (?) which is not on the chart for Em - So I took VI = D#m7/b5 is that correct ?

In the diagram we have then, I->ii0->III->iv->V->VI->vii0->I and I added the VI from Emaj.

I wonder if this is correct ;)

... I will try you sugesstions too soon see what comes up...

Thanks for the help so far this entry part is much much stronger but not want for The Ocean Butterfly project. This was good practice maybe but the direction of the music for the piece in mind.

I used VI->ii0->V->i at the start of this extract attached in key of Em. I also found some other interesting things whilst writing this that I might use in the project I am working on.

So this weekend I will start again :(

Hey, that's actually a lot better. However, at 0:15 to the end, the melody seems random to me,as if you just put in any note that happened to fit with the chord.

It might help to use music notation software to make the song, so you can see the music as you are making it, then edit it on logic after.

Oh ? better ;) thanks... yes I had to put my head back together first of cause. I did not try too hard with that short experiement as it is not the song I am after, but I may re-cycle it a bit later and add more to it.

Most of that sequence was done on paper in fact... now learning how to write acending / descending melodies nice ones I mean not just up and down the ladder.

The chords you used in the beginning were interesting, but they felt disconnected and they didn't flow well; try using chord inversions so the jumps aren't as pronounced, ex. C-E-G -> B-D-G instead of C-E-G -> G-B-D. 0:15 to the end, I felt the pitches you used for the melody were okay, but it was the monotony in the rhythm that made the melody lose its sense of direction. Try to vary the rhythm with the notes you used and see how that works, or even play around with the pitches and pick better-sounding ones.

Oh thanks, in fact you are correct I was so wrapped up in getting a punchy start that I forgot to even it out a little. the problem is the G right ? the inversion puts the G's together at the top - nice I like it. I might in fact redo it somewhat taking into account the comments.

I did like the big CMaj7 at the start. and of cause I need to work out a middle and an end !!

ha you guys encorage me to do more in this silly tune so you can't blame me for the creative fun!

Have a listen .... I could play with this tune for some more ;):P

shall I call it Happy Russian ?

That's better, but when the melody is like :20-:23, that gets really boring when that note repeats 3-4 times. Try making the melody better. :P And maybe a more interesting harmony too?

I still don't feel any improvement at all. Right now, it's just a mess of notes and a random melody. You're just clicking in random notes and noises and sticking with it, why don't you give that up and try to write something simple, and actually write a melody or something? Forget about trying to write an amazing progression, since that'l come in short time, but you NEED melody. All I hear in this is a bunch of chords and random notes and octave-spanned 7th chords.

You need to dumb it down a little, since I can tell you do have ideas, (due to that weird syncopated rhythm in the bass around :30) but you need to use them much more wisely. I cannot follow anything, and neither can anyone else. The length of the chords used aren't making any sense, and the ear/mind losses it's place in the music and wanders off, which basically means that your composition is boring and un-interesting to listen to.

How can, let's say, Mozart be so loved and it seems that there's nothing to it? Exactly, there isn't "anything" to composing music. You have to be blunt and you HAVE TO HAVE A LITTLE structure. I don't care who tells you, but the littlest bit of theory knowledge or analyzing music for form, use of melody, stealing progressions right out of it, etc. is what you need to get used to music and composing or even playing it. Don't let someone tell you that if you know theory it's for the birds or it's useless, because I used to be that way myself. Sure, if you're a good theorist, that alone doesn't make you a good composer let alone a fantastic one; all it means is that you're good theorist, but you're a great theorist if you can actually figure out how to apply that knowledge of voice-leading and progression building and modulation into everyday improvisation and in works and compositions.

I would suggest you slow down a bit, really look at some music that you love and write down WHY it's so amazing, or what have you. Then look back in the mirror to your music and tell yourself why it's so amazing to you. I can do the same thing for the music I love, but it's still hard to do it to my own music; you should expect to, probably, hate your own composition, and I'll tell if you don't like it very much if you scrap it and start anew.

Good luck!

ok ;) thanks for the reply ... that silly tune now in the bin. hmmm simple but nice melody, still have not worked out how to get those out of my head... I will go back to playing the keyboard for a bit see what comes up.

Some more practice...

Mmm, I like that. This sounds more like an incidental piece for a nursery commercial or something (not to be taken offensively). It's very free-flowing, with no form, which makes it feel floaty. A discernible melody wouldn't hurt either, but it might be astray from what you're going for. To some extent, I got annoyed by the celesta (?), I think you overused it a bit. Give the piano more solo action. Some synthy strings and pedal on the piano would give it a more dream-like quality. I love the unexpected closing notes.

I like the ascending scale notes (G-A-B-C#-D), but I'd like to hear a more active bass line--not TOO active, as that would destroy the light airiness, but maybe some 1-5-8's here and there, just to make this piece a little more interesting. ^_^

It could be just me, but I didn't like it too much. :heh: I felt like that was more harmony than melody. This song sounds like it is missing something IMO. I'll agree with ajamesu that adding some strings would add to the song.

As this stands, it does not work. I do though, think it has potential. What Mazzepa is saying is correct. It sounds like random notes entered into your choice of notation software and then mastered with some sort of higher quality sound. This does not work on its own. It can work if it is a layer of something more structured. Something with a natural progression and a melody. I envision some melody with the strings with some kind of synthy pad and this playing along with it.

Something along the lines of this...

The way you resolve in Child Song reminds me of music from the middle ages and if the remaining harmony was added, early renaissance, especially the area around 00:16. Just change to choir and add religous lyrics in latin :sweat:. Sorry, too much music history for me...

PS: I'm listening to the original one you posted.:lol:

Mmm, I like that. This sounds more like an incidental piece for a nursery commercial or something (not to be taken offensively). It's very free-flowing, with no form, which makes it feel floaty. A discernible melody wouldn't hurt either, but it might be astray from what you're going for. To some extent, I got annoyed by the celesta (?), I think you overused it a bit. Give the piano more solo action. Some synthy strings and pedal on the piano would give it a more dream-like quality. I love the unexpected closing notes.

I like the ascending scale notes (G-A-B-C#-D), but I'd like to hear a more active bass line--not TOO active, as that would destroy the light airiness, but maybe some 1-5-8's here and there, just to make this piece a little more interesting. ^_^

So I did something right :) thank you for the comments I will work on this on some more then, there are some mistakes at the end but it was late and I needed sleep. So I will try and get the tune yp to about 2 minutes or so.

It could be just me, but I didn't like it too much. :heh: I felt like that was more harmony than melody. This song sounds like it is missing something IMO. I'll agree with ajamesu that adding some strings would add to the song.

Thanks Zippy ... trying to balance soft with hard ;)

Well judging by your comments this is not one for the bin.... there wass nothing random about the tune though took some work, the start in fact is much better than I was expecting but of cause I have to work on the end and extending it (with some x-tra bass or so too).

It resembes older music probably because I was following I-VI-IV-V-I dynamic progression followed by the static D-A/G-D's you can hear towards the end and during the static part I have been reading that they used to use some linear progressions under is like the bass part (yamaha piano as it is softer).

I will add another section of dynamic movement + similar static to end hmmm not sure how it will work out as it is never under my control.

thanks so far guys...

Very busy 2 weeks with other things other than music :( but will spend some more time this weekend. I was trying to work out the bass for this one - what do you think of these three instruments together ?:think:

What frustrates me is that I think it sounds beautiful--it really captures the essence of a toddler IMO--but it still sounds written like you luckily chose random quarter notes and eighth notes (structure is key, repetition is good sometimes), and it hasn't improved much since I first listened to the piece.

I agree with Ajamesu...it still sounds like you are just throwing in random notes. This is better though. :D It is an improvement from your first few songs.

Hmmm, I think I will work on extending the song.

Yes it is an experiement with music pharse dynamics (http://www.harmony.org.uk/book/musical_phrase_dynamic_introduction.htm).

I am using I-IV-II-V-I & I-VI-IV-V-I and some parts I-II (which is nice in D) and IV-V and of cause some I-V.

How do I compose? well it is very rare that I think of a melody and then write it down (did happen with the happy russian to some extent). Normally I just write from inside myself using my no. 2 brain that is always there in the background. I do not hav much control over that no. 2 brain so what actually comes out may seem a bit random.

It is very frustrating for me too :) I am trying to treach the no 2. brain to write what I want and I am trying to teach no.1 brain to make notes of a nice melody when it things of one (carry pen and small note book now).

So bascially I need more practice but I must say THIS IS FUN :)

Ha I just finsihed what I though was something new and now listening to some of the other melodies I have been working on I have realised that they all contain the same melody underneath so it looks like the tune that is inmy head is trying to get out.

Listen to this in C maj see if you can recognise on movements. I think I am onto something here maybe I can put this all together into something reasonable....

Have not a name for this one yet... but entry is done ! Zzzzz

That's pretty good! One thing though, perhaps you can make the melody more 'moving'? :P

You're really missing a lot of key elements to a good song. You really don't have a good, interesting melody. You don't have any real supporting structure. Most importantly it doesn't sound very expressive.

The best advice I can give you know is to take a step back, listen to some music, pick it apart, see what makes you like it, and learn from it. Sure you can write music, but can you make music?

You're really missing a lot of key elements to a good song. You really don't have a good, interesting melody. You don't have any real supporting structure. Most importantly it doesn't sound very expressive.

The best advice I can give you know is to take a step back, listen to some music, pick it apart, see what makes you like it, and learn from it. Sure you can write music, but can you make music?

Yes I agree with you in some ways... thanks for the comments I am trying to learn how to "make" music as you say. I will keep at it !

Hmmm I have been busy with work but I have done a little survey of the short entry I wrote and got some feedback from various girls of various ages and they seem to like it. So I will do some more work on improving this and finsihing the piece. not had too many comments from this forum yet though.