Even though I'm a Microsoft nut I can't help being interested in Linux once in a while. I've seen screenshots of OpenSuse 11.1 with KDE 4.1 and it looks pretty damn sweet. I know that I used Linux in the past and it never worked the way I wanted it, but since I never really play PC games anymore, I figured maybe I could give it a try. What are your experiences with Linux?

Never strayed from Windows. I honestly think I would miss the BSOD. We're good buddies atm.

I haven't had a BSOD since my previous HD died XD

Played around with Ubuntu, and Open Suse. By played around I mean installed, used for a few days and forgotten about, so I guess id be right in saying I dont know anything about linux. Since my Prepaid WoW card ran out I've been mostly listening to music, browsing the web, (messing around on youtube, checking email etc) watching movies, very basic stuff to be honest. I dont honestly see why linux wouldnt be a viable alternative for the normal tasks.

Ive been using open office for a bit (on XP) and havent run into any major problems, so if thats any indication most of the trouble with linux is actually bothering to do it, rather than it being overly difficult. (Im assuming no weird hardware not being recognized etc, I mean Im using a laptop and everything worked out of the box on Ubuntu if I remember correctly, hardly remember OpenSuse...

I've heard both sides from "It just works" to "its annoying and you need to configure everything" Honestly the biggest interest I have in linux would be a small computer to handle downloads, store all my media, and play my music around the house... would be sweet.

Havent had a BSOD in a while either surprisingly... and my computers half zombie XD

Oh dear, I think I might have lied. My bro bought an eeepc, and I think that was running some linux system. That's the only one I used, but I was more interested in the computer itself than the os.

The point is that Windows XP is starting to feel sluggish on my desktop computer. The computer is getting a bit old, and Windows XP keeps growing (SP3, IE8 etc). Linux works on older hardware, and looks better than Vista or Mac OSX (with the right tweaks). Since I hardly play games anymore, might aswell use the processing power and GPU to work to give me a nice, slick interface, no?

Just an opinion...but I got funny compiz (correct me if Im wrong in the name) effects to work, and have seen vista transparency and the whole minimizing and "slowmo" effects on OSX and whatnot. Everythign seems to get old quick.

Sure its pretty for a while, but I guess the point im trying to make is, iit'll be entertaining for 5min, then it'll get boring. If I was you (and all you're doing is "normal" stuff) id try to find a more usefull use (yey that sounds retarded) for your GPU's processing power. if not just undervolt it or let it sit at idle till you need it. If better use of resources is something that seems appealing why not take it all the way? :)

What id do is read around a bit on distros, Im sure with a bit of googlin you could come up with a better understanding of the diferences between them. Obviously figure out what you want first, but shouldnt be too hard to atleast get a sense of direction.

The point is that Windows XP is starting to feel sluggish on my desktop computer. The computer is getting a bit old, and Windows XP keeps growing (SP3, IE8 etc). Linux works on older hardware, and looks better than Vista or Mac OSX (with the right tweaks). Since I hardly play games anymore, might aswell use the processing power and GPU to work to give me a nice, slick interface, no?
I'd think that Linux running Compiz would be slower than XP, though. But that might be because my old XP computer had a horrible video card. I dunno. I'll be putting some sort of Linux on there as soon as I reformat it, so I'll tell you how it goes if you still haven't switched over.

This thread would be much more interesting with a few screenshots. What's this slick interface I keep hearing? And I though that Linux with the right tweaks could also be used as a gaming machine, correct?

Linux is great. The vast amount of applications and programs are free most of the time, you can download a program that lets you use Linux and Windows pretty much at the same time( it's really cool). It runs really fast as well.

This thread would be much more interesting with a few screenshots. What's this slick interface I keep hearing? And I though that Linux with the right tweaks could also be used as a gaming machine, correct?

http://en.opensuse.org/Screenshots/11.1

This thread would be much more interesting with a few screenshots. What's this slick interface I keep hearing? And I though that Linux with the right tweaks could also be used as a gaming machine, correct?

You can find all the random desktop screenshots I take of my linux desktops here:

http://acm.umflint.edu/~zpowers/desktops

EDIT: As for the gaming part, yes.
However ATi Linux drivers aren't doing to great right now(they're in the middle of some really big changes). So if you were to put together a machine for Linux gaming, right now is the time to buy an Nvidia card.

I'd think that Linux running Compiz would be slower than XP, though. But that might be because my old XP computer had a horrible video card. I dunno. I'll be putting some sort of Linux on there as soon as I reformat it, so I'll tell you how it goes if you still haven't switched over.

Compiz should still run well on old video cards(provided its still supported by a modern driver). We have a linux machine at school that runs compiz with an ATi Radeon 7000 (Yep indeed that is the first Radeon card ever) and it runs just as fast with compiz as without(its not very fast still though :| )

The performance impact of running compiz is mostly limited by your video card, not your processor. So if you have an old video card that you probably won't be gaming with, you might as well run compiz and put that video card to use.

I've been using Suse for about half an hour now and already it's driving me insane. Why? Because for everything I want to configure, there are at least two or three ways to configure it. However, only ONE of those ways actually works, the other ways are just sitting there doing nothing. Take for example the desktop effects. There's a little program for enabling them. So I enable them, do they work, no. Appears there's a special settings page for that in YaST. Great. Take another example, dual monitoring. First, Linux seems to consider my externally connected monitor more important than my laptop's built-in monitor. This is annoying, because when I disconnect the monitor, the laptop screen doesn't display everything on the desktop, only the upperleft corner. So without the monitor attached, I can't use my laptop. Also, configuring dual-display can be done in two places, of which of course only one works. Also, Linux doesn't seem to detect that my external monitor is disconnected.

Of course the examples given are Suse problems (they use their own configuration applications) and it's documented well on their site, but it's just so annoying when I think I've found something, to realise later that I had to do it completely different.

edit: I think I'll reinstall the system tomorrow using the Gnome desktop, and without my external display and mouse etc attached. See what happens then. Apparently the Gnome desktop is more thoroughly adapted for use with Suse.

Why? Because for everything I want to configure, there are at least two or three ways to configure it. However, only ONE of those ways actually works, the other ways are just sitting there doing nothing.
Doesn't that mean there's only one way to properly configure something? The other methods are probably depreciated or you've probably read some tutorial written by someone who hasn't the faintest clue what he's talking about(Misinformation is common with Linux tutorials). Depreciated information is another common problem though, a tutorial thats only a few months old can be completely invalidated by fixes and updates in the community distributions. But of course stability(in an enterprise sense) is not a reason to choose OpenSuse, Fedora, Ubuntu, or any of the other popular desktop distributions, drastic changes in architecture are to be expected.

Just to list a few drastic architectural changes in the last year(Ubuntu is on a 6 month release schedule so imagine all of this happening with in only 2 releases) for Ubuntu include the inclusion of Pulseaudio, the depreciation of Bonobo for D-Bus(on the GNOME Side), the switch from KDE 3 to KDE 4, the repackaging of ia32libs, the rewrite of HAL and udev, depreciating iptables for ufw, and of course a new X server with every release.

On the other hand, If you were to use CentOS, SLED, RHEL, Debian, or any of the
enterprise grade distributions, documentation and tutorials from years ago will still work since these distributions avoid updates that change the way things work.


Take for example the desktop effects. There's a little program for enabling them. So I enable them, do they work, no.
When it comes to desktop effects what graphics hardware you have and which driver you choose(closed vs open source) to use makes a big difference. Because of the way the GPL works Linux distributions can't distribute closed source graphics drivers with their distros, even if the proprietary vendors approve, without violating the GPL. Therefore you have to download and install these proprietary drivers after you install your Linux distro.

So if you want to use desktop effects it works like this:

Nvidia Cards
There are 3 drivers currently with Nvidia cards, 2 open source and 1 proprietary. The two open source drivers are the nv and nouveau. nv is written mostly by the Nvidia engineers in obfuscated code that provide no 3D acceleration. nv is easily the worst open source driver ever, but unfortunately its the default in most Linux distros because nouveau development isn't finished. nouveau is a clean-room reverse engineered open source Nvidia driver, its development has been slow over the past few years because Nvidia refuses to release documentation on the interfaces to their GPU's command processors, but it is almost complete and set to be the default driver in the next generation in Linux distributions(Fedora 12, Ubuntu 9.10, etc).

The proprietary Nvidia driver is named nvidia, and is the driver of choice if you want 3D acceleration. If you have an Nvidia card you should be using this driver.

ATi Cards
ATi currently has 3 open source drivers, and 1 closed source driver. The 3 open source drivers are ati, radeon, radeonhd. The ati driver is a legacy simple 2D modesetting driver. radeon and radeonhd are the 3d drivers for r500 GPUs and below, while 3D for r600 and r700 GPUs are still development.

fglrx is the proprietary driver is it currently supports r600 and r700 GPUs, and its in many peoples opinion a really crappy driver. The open source drivers are better than fglrx but they don't have 3D support yet for r600 and r700 GPUs

So in Summary
Nvidia Cards - use the nvidia driver
ATi r500 and below - use the open source radeon or radeonHD
ATi r600 and r700 - use fglrx


Appears there's a special settings page for that in YaST.
I've never used a Novell distro before so I don't know anything about YaST :(


Take another example, dual monitoring. First, Linux seems to consider my externally connected monitor more important than my laptop's built-in monitor. This is annoying, because when I disconnect the monitor, the laptop screen doesn't display everything on the desktop, only the upperleft corner. So without the monitor attached, I can't use my laptop.

I find it really hard to comment on this because I don't know what driver you're using or what hardware you have, but the open source graphics drivers use xrandr(The X Rotate and Resize extension) to hot-plug and detect monitors. I don't what version of xrandr is currently being used with SuSE at the moment but monitor hot-plugging was added in version 1.2. If you're using a proprietary driver you have to that drivers configuration utility to set up monitors and displays(amdcccle for ATi and nvidia-settings for Nvidia). Using xrandr(the GNOME and KDE screen resolution programs are just xrandr front ends) to setup displays while using a proprietary driver can have unpredictable results, they sometimes work, sometimes don't.


Also, configuring dual-display can be done in two places, of which of course only one works.
If one of those two places was a proprietary drivers configuration utility then I already explained why one works and one doesn't. If not, then I'm not sure how you're configuring the screen resolution two different ways :|


Of course the examples given are Suse problems (they use their own configuration applications) and it's documented well on their site, but it's just so annoying when I think I've found something, to realise later that I had to do it completely different.

Like I've said before I've never used a Novell distro before so they may very well have their own way of doing stuff.


edit: I think I'll reinstall the system tomorrow using the Gnome desktop, and without my external display and mouse etc attached. See what happens then. Apparently the Gnome desktop is more thoroughly adapted for use with Suse.
heheh, thats what you get for using KDE, GNOME ftw!

ubuntu has not done me wrong so far, but just in case i have like zillions of other distro CDs that i burned on a whim xD.

right now ubuntu on both my desktop and laptop, although my desktop should be getting a update at some point.

one random thing tho is that for some reason the nautilus on my desktop is prone to creashes due to some bonobo-server- something :P
but it's not like my comp can't work anymore it just gets a little weird, but a fresh install usually fixes that and i haven't had that problem on my laptop, so most likely me just being stupid \o/

point is, not prone to switching my OSes any time soon

Doesn't that mean there's only one way to properly configure something? The other methods are probably depreciated

That's stupid. If there's a way of configuring something that doesn't work, it should be removed, it shouldn't sit there staring me in the face. Also, the desktop effects have nothing to do with the video card - the configuration utility just didn't do anything. I got them to work now via YaST.

I'm using an Intel GFX card btw.

I've switched to Gnome now, it works heaps better because Suse actually tweaked Gnome, unlike KDE. Of course, I now came across new problems, for example the keyboard layout (US isn't good, US international doesn't do what I expect it to do either). And of course, I can't install any flash player or whatever.

I've switched to Gnome now, it works heaps better because Suse actually tweaked Gnome, unlike KDE.

Actually thats more than likely just KDE's failing not OpenSUSE's.


And of course, I can't install any flash player or whatever.

Are you using the 64bit or 32bit Version of OpenSUSE?


I'm using an Intel GFX card btw.
Not really sure what the issue you were having was then. Intel's graphics drivers are completely open source and for other distro's like Fedora and Ubuntu, desktop effects works on them by default without any user intervention at all. Do you have the same issue with either of those two distros?

I had tried to use Suse once and I was not impressed. What really bothered me was the whole compiling business. What. The. Hell. Why can't it be like double click on some executable file and poof it's ready to go? I know that there are those "something.something" that's something like that, but every time I tried to use them they either (a) didn't work or (b) it wasn't an option for the program.

I guess it was partially too that I didn't want to learn a new operating system besides Windows and most of the programs I use are Windows only programs so why would I want to run the through Wine and have them run worse? I think for me, I'll stick with what I know: Windows.

What really bothered me was the whole compiling business. What. The. Hell. Why can't it be like double click on some executable file and poof it's ready to go?
I thought SuSE was an binary RPM based distribution.


I had tried to use Suse once and I was not impressed.
I usually try not to say bad things about other distributions, especially ones I've never tried myself, but you are not the first person I've heard say that.


I know that there are those "something.something" that's something like that, but every time I tried to use them they either (a) didn't work or (b) it wasn't an option for the program.
???

Suse is binary. Gentoo's the one that compiles the stuff for your computer.

And as I said again, once I enabled the desktop effects in the right place, they worked instantly. There just was this bogus setting window around with the same settings, but it didn't do anything.

I've found a new thing not to like. I like to have a nice, clean interface. What's important about a clean interface is that it is consistant. Mac is best at this, but that's mac, so let's not go there. Windows does an okay job unless you install weird software that like to have their own skins and stuff. Quite horrible. Under Linux, however, I have some programs that don't just look out of place, but feel out of place. I'm talking aMSN here, which looks plain horrible x_x it can look nice, with the right skin, but then there's the bit where it actually *works* differently from other programs. Take for example the menu bar. When I click on file, I get that menu. When I then move my cursor across the bar, I get the other menus when the cursor goes over them. In aMSN however, the first menu I opened stays open until I click another option in the menu bar. What's up with that? x_x

And Pidgin is a bit too simplistic... :(

Suse is binary. Gentoo's the one that compiles the stuff for your computer.

And as I said again, once I enabled the desktop effects in the right place, they worked instantly. There just was this bogus setting window around with the same settings, but it didn't do anything.

I've found a new thing not to like. I like to have a nice, clean interface. What's important about a clean interface is that it is consistant. Mac is best at this, but that's mac, so let's not go there. Windows does an okay job unless you install weird software that like to have their own skins and stuff. Quite horrible. Under Linux, however, I have some programs that don't just look out of place, but feel out of place. I'm talking aMSN here, which looks plain horrible x_x it can look nice, with the right skin, but then there's the bit where it actually *works* differently from other programs. Take for example the menu bar. When I click on file, I get that menu. When I then move my cursor across the bar, I get the other menus when the cursor goes over them. In aMSN however, the first menu I opened stays open until I click another option in the menu bar. What's up with that? x_x

And Pidgin is a bit too simplistic... :(

haha, You've just discovered whats its like to use a KDE application inside of GNOME. There's already work being done to make themeing more cohesive between desktop enviroments, but by no means is it a simple task.

I don't remember the name of the actual library but perhaps if you installed it, that may help.

And Pidgin is soon going to be replaced by Empathy in some distros as the Default IM client since Empathy was adopted into the GNOME project. Unlike pidgin, Empathy does not aim to be cross platform so it will be able to perform more advanced features like Video chat and conferencing as well as provide greater integration into the GNOME desktop.

aMSN isn't a KDE app, it looks ugly in all desktop environments, even in Windows.

aMSN isn't a KDE app, it looks ugly in all desktop environments, even in Windows.

aMSN is written with a Widget Toolkit Library called Qt that is maintained by the KDE developers. Qt, just like KDE is cross platform and that's why programs like aMSN are called KDE applications, because they only appear to be native in KDE environments.

On the Otherhand, Gtk is the widget toolkit used by GNOME applications. Gtk is also cross platform but GNOME is not.

aMSN is written using the TCL/TK libraries, which appears to be native to neither KDE or Gnome.

aMSN is written using the TCL/TK libraries, which appears to be native to neither KDE or Gnome.

aMSN used to use tcl/tk, however aMSN2 has switched over to Qt.

You can find the various versions for amsn2 in the different developer braches at the aMSN SVN repository.

Well, the version I had was still tcl/tk. I'd rather have a KDE program running in Gnome than a tcl/tk one, since KDE programs at least still look decent enough.