So, the whole Gladiator/Mars scandal has been going on for quite some time, but I was just browsing through YouTube and came across this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL1TGhQOcV4&feature=related). Sound a little bit like "Circa mea pectora" from Carmina Burana to anyone else but me?

I don't understand why someone gets paid as much as he does to just rearrange classics and pass them off as his own. He is by FAR the least original big-name film composer out there. Ugh.

What about Star Wars and the planets, what about Jaws and the opening of the 4th movement to the New World Symphony, etc.? The composer's choice comes in second to the director's when is comes to film music. If the director says I want it to sound a certain way, the composer has to follow that, even if the director goes so far as saying I want this to sound like a certain piece.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=composing+seminar+berklee&aq=f

That's a link to a seminar given at the Berklee School of Music by a professional film scorer explaining the way film scoring works.

The only instance of plagiarism on the composer's part I've heard of is the guy doing the music for Metal Gear Solid. Kojima knew nothing about the piece being a rearranged version of some Russian classical piece. I don't know if it was Zimmer's idea to put that music there or the director's. All I know is that just because the two pieces sound the same doesn't mean that the composer was plagarising.

And also ONE quoted piece does not make him "the least original big-name file composer out there."

I think the similarities are a little too minor to count as plagiarism... On a note about anime music (since we're an anime music website anyways), Macross Frontier's OST had 2 pieces that contained fragments which I thought sounded very similar to western music.

Macross Frontier - Big Boys (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxjY2ey85k0) <-> Pirates of the Caribbean - He's a Pirate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EynZ65x6Tmo) (beginning compared with 0:45)

Macross Frontier - Prologue F (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukBoyp90JbI) <-> Phantom of the Opera - All I Ask of You (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2GuK0kshNo&feature=related) (beginning compared with 1:39; they're even in the same key!)

On another note, Negima!'s OST piece, Japanese Magic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abJ8ceyX4eY) (0:15), contains some distinct similarities to Moonlight Densetsu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PobSiTCZ4Es) (0:18), Sailor Moon's OP... Lol.

But overall, I think at worst, the composer was simply influenced by the 'plagiarized' work, and subsequently deviate from it. It really wouldn't be smart to flat out plagiarize such famous works anyways, as they're bound to get caught.

Edit: I'm really impressed Youtube has every single piece of music I referenced! 0.0

How about recycling your own music? Listen to the scores of Bicentennial Man and A Beautiful Mind, both by James Horner.

There's some interesting Yoko Kanno ones. I think some are obviously arrangmeent or she would of been sued over a decade ago, but yea. It's interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOy3AuB5PtI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yupIJUbFNFg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9cwF7lSuMo&feature=related

Poor Hans Zimmer, I always see threads like this about him, lol.

Dunno if is there, but a Yoko's song was compared with one of sting, and for those that don't know the one of sting has a melody from a Prokofiev's work.

Some of those attempts I think are too weak, but the ones that obviously stand out have to be arrangements haha. She'd be out of business if they were plagiarized haha.

What about Star Wars and the planets, what about Jaws and the opening of the 4th movement to the New World Symphony, etc.? The composer's choice comes in second to the director's when is comes to film music. If the director says I want it to sound a certain way, the composer has to follow that, even if the director goes so far as saying I want this to sound like a certain piece.

All I know is that just because the two pieces sound the same doesn't mean that the composer was plagarising.

And also ONE quoted piece does not make him "the least original big-name file composer out there."

There's also parallels to the New World Symphony's third movement and "Duel of the Fates," but you don't see me complaining, because John Williams is a competent and shows originality time after time again. (Ever heard his cello concerto?)

This is by NO means the first time Hans Zimmer has been accused of plagiarism. He ripped of Mozart's Requiem and Mahler for The Lion King, and his Golden Globe-winning score for Gladiator (most blatantly in "Barbarian Horde") so extensively lifted from Holst's "Mars" that Holst's estate sued. If you listen to the two, it is a shameless copy-and-paste-job. The music for it is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0dKCmtxjBc&feature=related) (ignore the video) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bcRCCg01I).

Plus, Davy Jones' theme and Orff's piece share the same melody.

My biggest beef with Zimmer is that I have never heard one of his scores without noticing some plagiarism, to a degree where they might as well have just put in the original song.

The feel of "Jaws" vs. Dvorak is very different. Plus, as I said, Williams has already proved to me that he's got a good head on his shoulders.

@Al
Talking about composers recycling there stuff...how about Philip Glass? Got to love that oscillating third that's in every measure of every piece he's ever written.

Has anybody considered that the notes are 7 and it is quite easy after 500 years of intense composition to "sound" like someone else?

Maybe I'm being a *touch* hypersensitive, but seriously. Look at the two links I posted right before you. And it's the fact that he does this EVERY movie.

I noticed. But as I sad before it's quite common to hear ideas already written down. May it be influence or whatever you want. He may do it even on purpose knowing the fact that our ears are already pleased with some kind of music theme. We will never know it for sure. ;)

This is by NO means the first time Hans Zimmer has been accused of plagiarism. He ripped of Mozart's Requiem and Mahler for The Lion King, and his Golden Globe-winning score for Gladiator (most blatantly in "Barbarian Horde") so extensively lifted from Holst's "Mars" that Holst's estate sued. If you listen to the two, it is a shameless copy-and-paste-job. The music for it is here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0dKCmtxjBc&feature=related) (ignore the video) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bcRCCg01I).


Honestly, I think "Barbarian Horde" sounds more like the Pirates of the Caribbean soundtrack than like "Mars". I can't say I think Zimmer is a brilliant composer, but that example doesn't seem any more plagiarized from "Mars" (www.crumble-onuts.com/music/marsexample.mp3) than this excerpt from "The Last Battle" in Star Wars: A New Hope (www.crumble-onuts.com/music/swexample.mp3). However, I could also cite specific passages in music by Ravel that, by your definition, would probably be plagiarizing Gershwin...

I still think "Barbarian Horde" is way closer. And I guess my beef isn't so much with the fact that "OMG! There's a part of a soundtrack that sounds like ____ classical piece," it's that Hans is a hack. If he had an original idea, it would die of loneliness. Take Williams' piece for example. Sure, he has off-beat orchestra crashes like the ones in Mars, but he does a really cool variation on the main theme with it. Hans doesn't offer anything new to the table.

EDIT:

AND, if we want to say it's close to Pirates of the Caribbean, that's because Klaus Badelt co-wrote the Gladiator music, and then wrote the music for the first Pirates movie. So, once again, the man has never had an original thought.

I'm not saying you're wrong that he's a hack, or saying that John Williams is also a hack, all I'm saying is that that example wasn't a very good one, in my opinion. Maybe if you picked the specific excerpts you think sound the same that would help your case?

Edit: I do definitely see the possible plagiarism of Carmina Burana in that first clip from Pirates, although I could show you similar cases where traditionally it would not be considered plagiarism.

Has anybody considered that the notes are 7 and it is quite easy after 500 years of intense composition to "sound" like someone else?

There's sounding like someone else, and then there is the whole Mars vs. Barbarian Horde thing. With all the money movie composers make, you'd think it would always be original work...x_x

They make lots of money? I was under the impression that there are very few financially successful composers within the scoring industry...

Isn't Zimmer in that category of financially successful composers, along with Williams?

No, there are alot of successful people. In fact, the successful ones are usually the only people writing music for movies and games. :P

@Al
Talking about composers recycling there stuff...how about Philip Glass? Got to love that oscillating third that's in every measure of every piece he's ever written.

I'm ashamed to admit that I'm not too familiar with his works! I'll have to listen to it some time to see what you mean.