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serulin
October 16th, 2009, 04:54 pm
I have noticed many professional pianists have been taught hand techniques (not sure what its called), or a certain way-- or style to play the piano. You may have also noticed this if you see someone playing and their hands are flowing smoothly or when they hit certain keys they spring their hands up really high up into the air. It has kind of like a fluid movement or follows some kind of rhythm as opposed to just striking keys.

My friend told me that good pianists will always have this technique, like a high class style that is only taught to good pianist. Self learners or non-famous not un-ranked pianists do not have this technique.

Although I heavily disagree that only good pianist use this technique, I am very curious if it could help improve skill.

Thats why I want to ask if anyone here has any experience with this style? Or has noticed the same or has been taught it?

What kind of effects does it have? Does it really improve technique?

Is there a official name for this? A website or anything?

Thanks

Zero
October 17th, 2009, 03:03 pm
Playing smoothly?

I don't know about "spring their hands up really high up into the air" (usually taught to amateurs, a "showy" but ultimately inefficient technique), though it looks like you're just describing playing the piano smoothly i.e. experienced and skilled.

Most of my techniques came from my Russian teacher constantly pushing me to the limits, playing pieces way faster than you should, playing in all staccato, playing without jumping if you can help it at full speed etc.

The rest is depends on how deeply you feel the flow and rhythm of the music.

Milchh
October 17th, 2009, 06:42 pm
True, there is an overall technique to playing the piano, but it isn't anything like what you described. Technique starts from the basics, and you build a better technique with practice, dedication and over time you'll become comfortable with playing anything. Here's a few things to remember:


Relax
Keep the hands in a "natural" position on the keyboard
Keep wrists, forearms, upper-arms and shoulders relaxed
The fingers should be the source of your articulation
The wrists, forearms, etc. should be the source of your power/dynamic control
Keep your back straight
Sit on the edge of the bench, and make sure you sit at a comfortable height
Keep in mind: Be 100% comfortable when your playing (Sitting, hand placement, and 0% tension while playing)


If you have any questions, ask away!

Mushyrulez
October 18th, 2009, 10:31 pm
My friend told me that good pianists will always have this technique, like a high class style that is only taught to good pianist. Self learners or non-famous not un-ranked pianists do not have this technique.



Erm, where'd your friend get that information?

Hey, if you only teach "good pianist" skills to good pianists, then how the heck do they get that good?

Most likely, your piano teacher is already teaching you this "high class style that is only taught to good pianist". Everyone has their own style, as well, so you can't really say that that guy's skill is good, or that guy's skill is bad.

I guess the only high-class style you need to know is to continue practicing... as of now, I still /epically/ suck at piano, but... I guess you just have to continue practicing :P

serulin
October 18th, 2009, 11:56 pm
I don't really know how to describe it well myself which is why I asked the question. Perhaps a example would be better.

Take for example Kyle Landry (i think most of you should know him)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4-sqvJRm5U

Just in the opening of his kingdom hearts - dearly beloved cover you can clearly see he demonstrates the springy, fluent hand movement / style / technique (if i am even describing it right) that i was talking about above.

He also demonstrates this in passion (in the opening as well 0:26)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-neZL4_O6sQ

With passion, I can compare it to someone who I don't see this type of hand movement apparent in like Epsilon who (transcribed his song) and played it as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFDfmklHXMI

or even this guy (wrw28405 from youtube) who also plays passion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FRNiiTDags


I'm not sure about you guys but I can clearly see a difference in style that kyle uses compared to the other two. I also see it in many "professional" or concert pianist.

@Mazeppa
Yes I know there is a overall basic technique, but what I was trying to describing was more like a style and not this basic technique you talk about (posture etc).

@Zero
It may just be experienced skill and technique just as you said. Maybe even dynamics / or whatever else I don't know how to describe. Which is the main reason why I ask if theirs actually more to it--to this difference in hand movement / style or technique whatever it is called (if it is even defined?), if there is a name or is it just something people develop overtime?

Milchh
October 19th, 2009, 12:40 am
Most of the people you show will only sound like that on a Digital Piano/Keyboard. The hand placement and how he's striking the keys with his fingers would give them an awful sound, not to mention the pedaling is fishy at times. Most of these people have a "Performer's Ego" and will play visually stunning. All those flips and graceful hand movements are just visual embellishments and have 0% or even negative effects on the music.

Mushyrulez
October 19th, 2009, 01:02 am
Heh, that's what you mean...

I personally think they're a waste of time.

First of all (this is regarding those giant hand movements off), without the pedal the note just drains away, no matter how well your execution is. With the pedal, eh, the person who played it may be relying too much on it... If there's a rest, then you need to move your hand to the next note/chord to prepare for it; it sounds horrible if you aren't prepared beforehand, as that's what the rest is for.

In fast compositions, doing that will break you; there's no point of wasting time in a fast composition (or in any composition, for that matter). In my opinion the other two sound almost as good as the one that he did; then again, it is his arrangement, not theirs. When I hear anyone play piano, I don't look at their hands (well, I can't see their hands, for one).

I guess it's just a way to pass the time in a slow composition.

serulin
October 19th, 2009, 05:31 am
Most of the people you show will only sound like that on a Digital Piano/Keyboard. The hand placement and how he's striking the keys with his fingers would give them an awful sound, not to mention the pedaling is fishy at times. Most of these people have a "Performer's Ego" and will play visually stunning. All those flips and graceful hand movements are just visual embellishments and have 0% or even negative effects on the music.

Thanks for sharing your opinion :) It would be nice to hear someone (from the other side) who has actually been taught this or knows about this hand style because it seems most other's who post also agree that this hand movement has no correlation to skill. I have seen many casual players also use this movement so I don't really agree with how you say people only use it because they have a "performer's ego". The fact that they are even taught this technique should mean that there is something more to it then visual embellishment no? Why do so many people demonstrate or have been taught this hand movement if according to you has no significance at all?

This guy uses the movement I describe on a real piano so I don't really agree on your statement about digital pianos either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7prD-MEgYBo (some chinese song)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzIo6dbM9GA (turkish march)

He is a pretty famous piano player in Hong Kong. Bio: http://bestuff.com/stuff/phoebus-chan

Many of the pianists I have noticed using this style has a "classical" background. That may or may not have a correlation, but I think this type of hand movement can--in fact, have an impact and effect how a piece sounds.

My piano teacher pointed out in class one day after we were all forced to play out loud to the class to notice how everyone's song was a little different even though we were playing the same song. But because of the way they play it, (which i think hand motion does have some type of effect (whether it be fluidity, dynamics, faster, shorter, pedal, etc) it contributes to why each person can play a song uniquely.

Here is another comparison of two people playing the same song using different hand techniques. The first guy uses the hand movement while the 2nd guys hands are almost stationary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWUY-esz1FM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMK3sPwyA4A

Zero
October 19th, 2009, 07:01 am
Just watched the first video you posted. It's as I suspected,


"spring their hands up really high up into the air" (usually taught to amateurs, a "showy" but ultimately inefficient technique)

You see it everywhere - amateurs being taught to lift their hands way up by lower-level instructors. It's a common sight.
Whereas low-level pianists tend to keep that technique even after 10-15 years (and it shows - they sound bland), most high-level pianists drop that technique quickly as they become skilled. You'd be better off without it.

Milchh
October 19th, 2009, 11:51 am
Serulin, trust me, this isn't anything that is taught. Believe me. It's something that is completely made-up by the student or performer. They may look fancy and add to the whole performance (not the music, but the "performance; visual") but they have absolutely nothing to do with skill -- at all. People get used to playing like this, therefore it looks fluid; when you practice anything, you'll become better at it.

When you showed me those two videos of the pianist on the Yamaha played, I heard how badly voiced it was. The piano itself aside, his tone quality was not very good -- at all. The sound wasn't smooth, and in the Turkish March, you could hear just boisterous noises being pounded out of the piano.

Trust me, I know what I am talking about here, Serulin. If you still wish to play like this, and admire it, then be my guest. The point I am trying to make here is that this is not a technique and it is not something that is taught (or, at least, shouldn't be taught--for goodness sakes). G'day

HopelessComposer
October 19th, 2009, 04:07 pm
This "technique" is ridiculous, and I'm amazed someone managed to trick you into thinking this was a "classy, good pianist, ultra super technique."
It's nothing special; it's just showing off. The only thing I think of when I see someone playing like this is "wow, what an asshole."
So yes, play like this if you want to. Just know that 90% of the (good) pianists out there will be laughing at you.

Hell, I'm a mediocre pianist, and even I know better than to insult my piano by acting like that in front of it. = \
The videos you showed really are all about ego. There's no other reason to flail your hands around like that.

Gekkeiju
October 19th, 2009, 10:53 pm
Yeah, that just looks downright poncy.

However, I believe that there no right or wrong way in terms of things like, should you fingers be flat or arched, etc. Provided you have a good tone, are able to play well, flutently and effectively etc, positioning of things like is nay important.

xXSupanoobXx
October 19th, 2009, 11:29 pm
With all my years being taught years ago until I quit my teacher never taught me such a thing. She just...played.

Not until I decided to resume when I saw my friend play like that. I never got the point of doing that. Nor do I want to use that.

But understandably when PERFORMERS play the song they need such "techniques" because half of the audience look at the performer and listen.

Mushyrulez
October 21st, 2009, 03:00 am
because half of the audience look at the performer and listen.

Erm, look at the performer and listen?

Most people either only look, or only listen.

xXSupanoobXx
October 21st, 2009, 05:34 am
I look at orchestra performances and listen at the same time. Maybe I'm one of the exceptions.

an1995616
October 21st, 2009, 07:19 pm
My teacher taught me the Up-Touch technique.

During staccato's you jump your wrist up to make the staccato more short and crisp.
It's very easy to learn but while you are playing its kind of hard to remmeber to use it...

Milchh
October 22nd, 2009, 11:46 am
It's very easy to learn but while you are playing its kind of hard to remmeber to use it...

Because it isn't "natural."

Look, when I made the list of how to use good technique, (yes) they were the basics. You need to be grounded with the fundamentals before you can even think about branching off into a more showy style.

You have to remember that technique is ONLY used to get you where you want to go. The easiest and most effective way (fundamentals) is that way, and it's also the best way to produce a good tone.

serulin
October 23rd, 2009, 11:54 pm
This "technique" is ridiculous, and I'm amazed someone managed to trick you into thinking this was a "classy, good pianist, ultra super technique."
It's nothing special; it's just showing off. The only thing I think of when I see someone playing like this is "wow, what an asshole."
So yes, play like this if you want to. Just know that 90% of the (good) pianists out there will be laughing at you.

Hell, I'm a mediocre pianist, and even I know better than to insult my piano by acting like that in front of it. = \
The videos you showed really are all about ego. There's no other reason to flail your hands around like that.

Please note, no where did I ever say I wanted to play like this or use the hand movement. I was simply very curious why SO many pianist practice this "UNNAMED" hand movement that has almost no information about it online.

Most of the people who have posted seems to have come to a consensus that this type of hand movement has no correlation to skill--that its only for looks. But have any of you ever used this hand movement? Or can even play like that? Have you talked to any professionals? teachers? or friends who use this?

I would really like some in-depth research about this but the info is just not avail.

I am currently pming this girl on you tube. She is a professional pianist with-- published cd albums, she is also a concert pianist and goes on tours. She demonstrates this hand movement when she performs Liszt - Totentanz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJR0WF_vVmU
http://www.valentinalisitsa.com

Even if its just for looks, you guys criticize the movement, saying things like "Only Low grade pianist use this technique" "this technique can actually worsen your performance" "only assholes use this technique to show off"
when a professional artist such as Valentina uses this hand movement.

You guys really think there's no possibility that there may be something more to this? I find that aesthetics in the art of piano is also an important aspect, therefore it IS interesting to see how peoples hand's move when they play. I have nothing wrong with you guys giving your opinions that its just for looks or that it has no correlation to skill. That is what we are discussing about. But to think when you see this movement "wow what an asshole" is just ignorant. You completely close off your mind of any other possibilities of what might be going on. And that's the type of behavior that demotes critical analysis.

xXSupanoobXx
October 24th, 2009, 02:04 am
Remember I said "Some people watch and listen"?

Well, just that should be enough to reason why professional pianists use this technique.

Milchh
October 24th, 2009, 04:51 am
Serulin, this has gotten to the point where people told you what you asked of them. You wanted their opinion and you got their answers. Don't complain just because they don't agree with you. Maybe, if put in "our" perspective, you're the close-minded one?

Anyway, I'm not going to debate that now. You've brought up [now] about how this can add to the performance, visually. Sure it can! It can make the LOOK of the performer look more elegant and will VISUALLY stun us with the fluid movements and flashy VISUALS of the hands flying up with big chords.

What's the theme used in that description? It all has to do with the look of the performance, and nothing to do with the actually production of the sound whatsoever. This is the point we are getting it:

When the sound quality isn't matched with how "beautiful" everyone looks, it makes the performer look like an amateur (or, "asshole," if you will). Lisista is a professional, there's no doubt about that, but don't go solely off her word of what she says, just like you haven't gone off ours, or how I haven't gone off other teachers which I've had lessons with (aside from my main teacher).

Here's a personal example of something that pertains to visual performance and sound:

This summer, I attended IMAP (Czech Republic...see link in my signature). I had a lesson on a Mozart sonata I was playing with one of the faculty there. He really enjoyed my playing of the piece, but he felt that I was bored and didn't enjoy playing the piece. I was confused and asked why. This was his response [paraphrase], "...you look bored...you don't move your arms or hands, your neck is slightly bent in towards the keyboard, you're staring at the keyboard and your face is completely apathetic..." I was shocked. I then asked him how I sounded, and he said that I sounded great, but appear bored. I then confronted my teacher on the issue and this is what he said to me [paraphrase], "Don't worry about how you look when making music; focus on what music is-- the Sound."

In conclusion, music is all about sound. If I cannot solely listen to a musician and enjoy myself, then they're not a musician in my eyes. A mechanic is to an engine as a musician is to sound. I often close my eyes to focus on what's important: the sound-- not how they look, how beautiful the hall is, etc.

I hope this further helps your fascination for opinion/discussion.

Mushyrulez
October 24th, 2009, 05:28 am
Well, I for one was taught this technique - as the pieces that I learned progressed from "Mary had a little lamb" to something harder than that, I didn't use the technique as much. As Mazeppa said, when I was playing easy songs without the technique, I felt that I was bored. With the technique, I felt that I was actually excited about it (even though I wasn't). As the pieces got more interesting, I didn't really need the technique. For some people, it makes other people around you think that you're bored with the piece/not bored, but for me, it makes myself feel bored/not bored. For master performers, some of them could have nothing to do (cause they're too fast), and so deliberately waste time to challenge themselves?

(that question mark was supposed to be a period, but it doesn't sound nice that way)

Senhiro
October 24th, 2009, 07:34 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cxkLZoEFEk&feature=related

did that tell you something?

Milchh
October 24th, 2009, 03:19 pm
As Mazeppa said, when I was playing easy songs without the technique, I felt that I was bored.

You've misunderstood me -- I didn't feel bored at all. The teacher, who I was having a lesson with, said I look bored. I forgot to mention, however, I didn't feel bored with the way I was playing. I try to focus entirely on the sound and the interpretation while playing. I utilize every single movement so that I can create good sound, lines and keep control. And when I tried to "use this technique" I felt like a fool, and what I was playing was much too over-exaggerated, musically.

EDIT:

I wanted to share some videos with you all of artists of which I look up to. These guys don't move around much (but that isn't why I look towards their example, but that's part of what I've picked up) but they focus on the sound and the music.

Arthur Rubinstein-- Chopin - Nocturne in D flat major, Op. 27 No. 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmo0H3jxGCA)

Claudio Arrau-- Debussy, Reflets dans 'eau (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Hyq4Xc7Q8)

Vlado Perlemuter-- Ravel - Gaspard de la Nuit - 3 : Scarbo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMRrcSEVzgI)

Vladimir Horowitz-- Rachmaninoff - Prelude in G# Minor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-umLy_5J3k&feature=related)

And this is myself playing, (You don't get to see my hands move much in the video, but the technique I was taught by Ivan Moravec was very strage. It was like "pushing" the keys softly, and very "round," to create such a sound)

Seth King-Gengler-- Debussy: La Cathédrale Engloutie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCMK9HNZLuI)

xXSupanoobXx
October 25th, 2009, 02:16 am
Nice playing there.

And now I know I'm not the only one who has a habit of bending the head extra low when playing the piano.

Mushyrulez
October 25th, 2009, 02:53 am
That's not really what I meant, Maz, but w/e :P

Erm, I guess Ichigo's has a general consensus on the issue at hand, did you ask around other forums?

KaitouKudou
October 25th, 2009, 08:51 pm
Music is just for listening but a performance must show as well. I must disagree to those who says the acting aspect in a live performance is crap and its okay to look bored as long as your sound is good.

Regardless of how you play, you must show that you are enjoying what you are doing. If your face shows boredom, no matter how great your sound, others will feel bored. Remember, this is only for performance. if you are recording, no one really gives a crap about what you do in the studio as long as you play the music good. To upper level RCM and ARCT and even BMUS students majoring in performance, these "gross exaggeration" of what they play are expected. Some will argue that they are not acting but am willing to bet that they do exaggerate a little when they are on stage. In the professional level, distinguishable between the sound of two players become significantly less the more skilled the players get. These performance techniques to show emotions can be taught much like acting. In fact, my piano teacher taught me specifically on certain ways to hit chords so that it forces my body to move with my hands and look smooth.

Does this have an effect on your playing? I'm about 60% sure that it does for me but this will differ between different people. It could simply be that I'm just more alert during my live performances so I sound better but I won't argue if people say it doesn't. But I would like to say that if you lean to your right while playing higher notes on a piano, it gives you alot better control. If you raise your hands higher to hit an accented fortissimo, you'll get a more defined sound. By exaggerating and acting, you are doing bigger actions so maybe you could get a more crisp/clear performance because of this.

to conclude, I will go against the general consensus on ichigo. I think the thought that how you look in a performance have no meaning is way too outdated. If this was true, professionals might as well perform in shorts and sandals.

Edit: is this a high class technique...LOL...no. Anyone can do it. even those that don't do it normally can learn to do it much like anyone can learn to act. You don't have to be a pro to put emotion into playing. There is no official term...it's just...performance.

Senhiro
October 26th, 2009, 12:13 am
Music is just for listening but a performance must show as well. I must disagree to those who says the acting aspect in a live performance is crap and its okay to look bored as long as your sound is good.

Regardless of how you play, you must show that you are enjoying what you are doing. If your face shows boredom, no matter how great your sound, others will feel bored. Remember, this is only for performance. if you are recording, no one really gives a crap about what you do in the studio as long as you play the music good. To upper level RCM and ARCT and even BMUS students majoring in performance, these "gross exaggeration" of what they play are expected. Some will argue that they are not acting but am willing to bet that they do exaggerate a little when they are on stage. In the professional level, distinguishable between the sound of two players become significantly less the more skilled the players get. These performance techniques to show emotions can be taught much like acting. In fact, my piano teacher taught me specifically on certain ways to hit chords so that it forces my body to move with my hands and look smooth.

Does this have an effect on your playing? I'm about 60% sure that it does for me but this will differ between different people. It could simply be that I'm just more alert during my live performances so I sound better but I won't argue if people say it doesn't. But I would like to say that if you lean to your right while playing higher notes on a piano, it gives you alot better control. If you raise your hands higher to hit an accented fortissimo, you'll get a more defined sound. By exaggerating and acting, you are doing bigger actions so maybe you could get a more crisp/clear performance because of this.

to conclude, I will go against the general consensus on ichigo. I think the thought that how you look in a performance have no meaning is way too outdated. If this was true, professionals might as well perform in shorts and sandals.

Edit: is this a high class technique...LOL...no. Anyone can do it. even those that don't do it normally can learn to do it much like anyone can learn to act. You don't have to be a pro to put emotion into playing. There is no official term...it's just...performance.

could you post a video fo you performing? i want to see

Milchh
October 26th, 2009, 12:58 am
Regardless of how you play, you must show that you are enjoying what you are doing.

Whoever instilled that in you, sir, should be taken out back and shot.

I'd advise you to watch those videos I posted. Rubinstein, for one example, sat completely still and gave little to NO facial expression at all. His physical movements with his appendages were all towards making the music. He was a brilliant musician, and performer. Myself, in my opinion, feel more enjoyment out of a performance if the pianist/whoever is performing is obviously concentrating on the music alone rather than trying to convey what the music is doing, physically. It's just amateur, and has never gone into professional judgement (not judgement as in competitions, but critiques.

KaitouKudou
October 26th, 2009, 02:26 am
Whoever instilled that in you, sir, should be taken out back and shot.

I'd advise you to watch those videos I posted. Rubinstein, for one example, sat completely still and gave little to NO facial expression at all. His physical movements with his appendages were all towards making the music. He was a brilliant musician, and performer. Myself, in my opinion, feel more enjoyment out of a performance if the pianist/whoever is performing is obviously concentrating on the music alone rather than trying to convey what the music is doing, physically. It's just amateur, and has never gone into professional judgement (not judgement as in competitions, but critiques.

I was waiting for your reply Mazeppa. You're always so passionate about your beliefs :lol: I knew you wouldn't let me down.

I have watched and I can say false to what you have said above. I did not say bouncing and gliding infront of the piano was the only way to show emotion. His subtle movements alone shows how much he is enjoying the music his making and that is good enough. Further more, Rubinstein's piece was a gentle melodic one. You cannot expect any performer to be jumping and flinging their arms to music like that. That would just be bad acting. I am yet to see one great pianist who sits completely still, with their face full of boredom fully focused on the sound they are producing. I think your teacher may have been trying to tell you to show a little bit more of how much you love the music you play. i can guarentee that between two great pianists of equal skills the one that shows through his expressions of the love of his music will always win against that of the one who looks like his bored sitting there.

This won't mean either are bad pianists, just that one will leave a deeper impression. I honestly believe, if two pianists are of equal level, the one that can "perform" better on stage will be that much more successful in his/her career.

I don't have any video's of me "performing" but I do have some of me playing pieces I've written on youtube senhiro. You can see traces of hand movement in some of them but probably not the kind you are looking for. You're welcome to have a listen anyways though.

Milchh
October 26th, 2009, 09:04 pm
i can guarentee that between two great pianists of equal skills the one that shows through his expressions of the love of his music will always win against that of the one who looks like his bored sitting there.

I highly, highly doubt that your statement is guaranteeing. Here's my proof:

Claudio Arrau vs. Lang Lang; Any piece by Liszt, for good examples.

I also have yet to see a great pianist sit 100% still and no expressive looks on their faces. You should see my video, once again, of myself playing. The movements I am doing are completely "involuntary." Sure, I am wanting to move when I want to move, but I am not trying -- one bit -- to visually convey the music to the audience... I am simply getting into the music. This happens on a higher level when I play jazz. Since jazz requires so much fast-thinking and a very intimate feeling with the piece, I often will bounce with the beat/rhythms to the music and will, as I've started the last few months, singing what I am playing/improvising as well.

Let's get something straight, I feel you are all twisting my words. I didn't say that the pianist should be completely still, no facial expression and should concentrate only on the sound. Sure, the last one should be what you should concentrate on, but the first two topics I did not say. What I said is how I feel that the movements should be focused on the production of your sound and the music. This doesn't mean you cannot move and visually show expression (hell, I do it) but the point is: it's that I am not trying to show it at all; I think of it as involuntary movements from simply getting into the music.

Furthermore, it wasn't my primary teacher who told me to move more, but a fresh doctorate graduate (2 years) who was teaching at IMAP. He's a great guy. My teacher was the person who said not to worry about making a visual show of your emotions, only to concentrate on the music. No one ever said to NOT make movements/visuals, even myself.

And yes, KK, I do get passionate about my beliefs, because I have completely sane and logical explanations for them.

KaitouKudou
October 27th, 2009, 02:20 am
first, I think I did misinterpret some of what you said Mazeppa. :heh:

The debate that is arising in this thread can be argued in both ways depending on the musician's view. Actually, my gf and I had argued about a VERY similar topic except I was on the opposite side I am on right now. I do believe I've seen related matters discussed in books...not essays...books as well. Your view is very logical, and through pure logic, it works. But I think the world is not logical. This is why Richard Claderman can become one of the most successful pianists despite the fact that his playing and performance is quite mediocre.

If you look at the world as being illogical then my view is not without its logic either. I'm not saying what your teacher said wasn't correct. If your sound is not perfect then you should not worry about how you look. That is what I tell my students as well. In fact, I've never told any of my students to focus on how you look so believe me when I say I know what you say is correct. That being said, I am teaching my students ways to play that will naturally force their body to move. Most of my students are 6-9years old. They learn through memorization. I actually had one of student who literally just sits there and not move from beginning to end. When you look at her play, it looks like she doesn't even want to be there. When I ask her, she tells me that's not it at all and that she loves playing. So I've told her techniques such as snapping her forearm on staccatos and push on triads instead of pressing them. Now I did not just tell her to do these just to make her look more engaged. They did make a huge difference to the sound she produced as well.

Furthermore, in my grade 7 piano examination, I was told that I did not appear to be engaged in the music enough in my review. That was the only negative comment I had received for that particular piece. My piano teacher has also told me of people who have failed not because of how they played but because they had forgot to wear the correct attire though I'm pretty certain that they probably didn't play too great either and breaking the expected dress code only added oil to the judge's decision.

One more argument: Why are marks given to memorization? Earlier RCM examinations count memorization as a bonus mark. Upper level RCM examinations will dock you marks if you do not have the piece memorized. If sound is the only issue then regardless of whether you memorized the piece or not, as long as you play good, you should deserve the same mark as another who played just as good.

There are good actors and good voice actors. The notion of appearance don't matter and performance don't matter, to me, just doesn't seem true. There are good actors and good voice actors. Is this deceit? Mockery of quality music? At least I don't think it is. It's just a part of your talent in engaging the listener to what you play.

I'm going to make this my last detailed reply on this thread. The topic is too controversial and I think the replies all of us have given the original question is already more then sufficient as view points of consideration.

Al
October 28th, 2009, 01:13 am
One more argument: Why are marks given to memorization? Earlier RCM examinations count memorization as a bonus mark. Upper level RCM examinations will dock you marks if you do not have the piece memorized. If sound is the only issue then regardless of whether you memorized the piece or not, as long as you play good, you should deserve the same mark as another who played just as good.

I suppose marks for given for memorization because the examiners are testing various aspects of your performance skills (why else would the RCM make you sight read?). Besides, in the end it is a performance. When you go to a concert, most pianists will have the score memorized (there are some pieces where you won't have the time to turn the page even if you had the score available, and having a page turner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWqFaGwNCMU) can be distracting).

KaitouKudou
October 28th, 2009, 02:10 am
I suppose marks for given for memorization because the examiners are testing various aspects of your performance skills. Besides, in the end it is a performance.

Exactly!