Hello everyone, I've received word from M who said there will be no problem with regards to forum rules as such, this competition begins as of today!!

KK's Composing Competition:

The Prize: I have recently graduated and started a company called Ambience Music Studios. The studio is a branch under CW Business Inc. and supplies original music to a wide variety of events (weddings, funerals, film, games, ect...) and in the midst of looking for talented composers. The winner of the competition will be granted, under their personal discretion, an opportunity to join the company as a senior composer. I've been with this forum for a long time and has been amazed by the quality and talents the composers of this forum holds and feels great appreciation to the helpfulness and friendliness of its members. Therefore, I've decided to begin my search for talent on this forum!

The Competition: Three things must be present in order for a composition to be claimed as the winner. 1. The piece must be playable in real life. 2. The digital realization of the piece must be in high quality. (For information, refer to details!) 3. The piece must sound good! To put things bluntly, this competition is a talent search ;)

Criterias:
1. The score AND digital realization/recording must be submitted before the deadline (July 1, 2010 0:00:00am Mountain Time).
2. The piece must be greater than 5minutes in length.
3. The piece must be playable.
4. Please provide a transposed score. If you are able to provide a score on concert pitch as well, it would help but it is not necessary.
5. A minimum of 3 instruments or 1 piano+soloist.

Rules:
1. Only original works by the submitter is to be submitted.
2. Incomplete pieces are not to be submitted.
3. You are permitted to submit ONE piece!
4. The piece you have submitted may be revised and resubmitted ONCE!
5. No comments regarding any piece submitted are to be made prior to the deadline.
6. If you wish to know more about the company, please send me private messages. Do not ask on this thread!!!! This thread is reserved for competition related material.
7. General forum rules stands as is where ever it is applicable.
8. When a piece of music is posted on this thread, it will be considered as a submission.
9. Please use only New Notation for the F horn.

Judging: The pieces will be judged starting with the three criterias given. The competition has 4 judges. Myself, Kevin Penkin, and Deathraider will be the initial judges who will select the top three compositions. The top three will be given to a friend of mine, who has graduated from masters in music composition this year and one of the best composer I've met in my life, who will choose the winner. The judges are all, or will all, be senior composers of ambience music studio. We will be seeking a composer that can write music that none of us can.

Details/FAQ: (updated as more questions arise)

1. High quality playback does not mean it has to use GPO samples and mp3 quality. Note that the original super mario theme was done by midi samples. It's not the quality of samples, its how you use it!

2. There are no online resource you can look at regarding my company or CW Business Inc. A website is currently under construction. For legal purposes, I may choose not to answer questions regarding the company.

3. Just cause I know people will ask...Composers are paid on commission, not salary!!

4. Though it says that the winner will be able to join AMS as a Sr. Composer, it does not mean that he/she will be the only one granted permission to join the company. If the judges...mainly myself...decide that I really loved the work of a composer even if the piece is not playable, I may still invite the composer to join the studio. Note that these invitations may not permit the composer to begin their position as a Sr. Composer for the company. I may choose more than one composer to join the company. In vise-versa, the judges and I may decide that the competition will not have any winners if I feel that no work submitted is good enough quality.

5. A Sr.Composer for AMS would mean that you will be prioritized when orders are received(music is requested). It is the highest position that a composer can get to within the company and as such, would be in the highest bracket for commission receivable for the works performed.

Hint:
1. A lot of the things regarding playability of a piece can be found out through common sense. Things like the violin not being able to play more than 1 note on the same string or having a trombone trill between first and seventh position can very easily be avoided with 2 minutes of reading on wikipedia about the instruments. When in doubt, try to pretend you are the player that's about to play the piece.

2. Do not make mistakes on instrument transpositions. Eg: F horn sounds a 5th lower than written, not 4th higher.

I hope Kevin, Deathraider and YOU participate even if you are the judges! ;)

*Now this need promotion*

Edit:

What will happen with those sounds that are not mean to be played live by a person?

And I keep confusing this thread with the one of your compositions by the KK's. xP

I am currently searching for a composer who is able to compose music capable of being performed live as many songs of dedication will be performed live in front of the people they are to be dedicated to. That being said, there has been an increase in the use of digital sounds with the orchestra. However, please note that as real time adjustments are necessary, it is not as simple as pressing the play button at the start of the piece. Specific instructions should be given to what the "computer player" should do at each bar of the piece and if there are multiple samples, indicate clearly how the player should go about them. Also, remember that most orchestras will not have a computer available to them as an instrument and even if someone brings their laptop, they may not be competent in the program you want them to use. I would suggest only use a computer as an instrument if you really 100% must use it. The way I see it, if you are able to write a good piece for an orchestra (playable and sound good) then you can write a good soundtrack that don't need consideration to the people playing it. If you do decide to use a computer as an instrument, the sounds must be something that is truly unavailable to the orchestra. Don't write an impossible gliss for a trumbone or cross string chords for the violin and say that its meant to be realized by the computer.

A small warning: In real life, a piece written by a new composer is seldom rehearsed. There has even been occasions where pieces were sight read on the day of the concert. The players are of professional standards so they are able to play a fairly complex piece with minimal rehearsal but it still should be considered.

I would participate but I'm still busy establishing contracts and finding clients for AMS right now. I won't mind if Kevin or Deathraider submitted works, the more the marrier. But do know that I won't let them judge their own pieces, even though i know they will probably be as fair as they can.:lol:

...wait, are you accepting amateur (read: one-note deafening "melodies") compositions as well? :P

Of course!! EVERYONE IS WELCOME TO JOIN!!

Music is subjective. You should never give up without trying. I don't believe "bad music" can be created if the composer put time and effort in to produce a product that they can feel proud of.

Edit: 2 new criteria, 2 new rule, and 2 hints have been added.
Edit2: 2 New FAQ has been added.

You put a limit of minimum instruments. Is there a limit for maximum instruments to use? And it can be any kind of instrument? For example ethnic instruments? Macaroni can?

nope, you may use how many ever instruments you want and which ever instrument you'd like. But remember that if your computer can't realize the instrument, I will have to imagine what the piece would sound like with the "rare" instrument. This might be different from how it sounded in your mind when you wrote it and it may be different from how it would actually sound if performed.

Hey guys, sorry for double post but can I get the people who are thinking of joining this competition to say that they are so I can get an idea of how many people there is?

I will consider it.

I'm in, though it'll still be hilariously horrible...

i don't know... 7 min is a long time.

I can't force anyone to participate but I do hope that many will. Don't worry Mushy, anyone who submits their work will get their pieces reviewed. I'm not saying that I'm super great and you should listen to what I have to say about your pieces but I will be taking your pieces apart from the fundamentals in reviewing it so it should be of some help to any composer.

7min I think is on the very short side of a lengthy piece. The reason that I put that in the criteria is because most requests will be between 7-15min and can go up to 45-60min for a real big project. Think of this competition as a client who has just called upon you and requested what I had written in the criteria. Also, pretend that you are earning $350-$500 per minute of music you write. In real life, you might even get very vague descriptions of a feeling or a purpose for the music such as weddings and funerals or the opening ceremony of a company. Your client may be an amature in music and do not know the difference between a flute and a recorder and thus would have no clue regarding your music if you just told him/her to imagine what it sounds like from a score. You will still be requested to show proof of your progress periodically...usually on a weekly basis...so a high quality digital realization would be needed. Once completed, the work will be performed by a professional orchestra. This would mean that your score can't just sound good, it has to be practical. Keeping this sort of stuff in mind while writing will let you get a pretty good idea of what kind of composer I am looking for and ultimately what kind of music would win you this competition. :)

deleted cause I wrote it in the wrong thread....^_^

See why I confuse the threads. ;)

You forgot to put what time zone for the deadline.

Hmm, I will be lenient and accept anything submited 24hours from 11:59pm on May 31 mountain time just cause I did not specify it earlier.:(

Thank!XD

OK! First Submission!!

I'm not really sure if this is exactly what your company wants, but i figure, why not try?

This piece is called The City of Mantua, and is about an ancient Italian city.

I hope you enjoy.

Heh, this means I probably won't be able to make anything (May is filled with stuff), sorry...

great composition BTW eta!

i don't know... 7 min is a long time.

Yes. Yes it is. :heh:

PS. That's freaking sweet that there's already a piece submitted!

@mushyrulez: Thanks!

@death-I figured you would want submissions sooner than later. =]

Bump!

There is just one week left before the end of this competition. I hope that people are putting final touches to their pieces that they are planning to submit. Hope to hear from you all soon!

Cheers!
KK

There is 23 hours as of this post. It saddens me a bit that there is only 1 submission. If there isn't anyone else, I guess we have a winner by default:sweat:

D: I'd submit but this timeline is a bit... rigid, IMO. Middle of school with finals? >_>


Great idea, but... eh. :/

O right, I forget that most people have finals in June. Sorry, I've been out of school since april so I forgot. I am considering extending the deadline to July 1 right now due to the "LOW" participation:\ If Etaroko would not mind and the other judges would not mind. Also, how many people believe that if I make this change they WILL participate?

Also, it seems that 7min is giving many people a hard time. Therefore, I would not mind dropping the requirement to 5min. However, with all due fairness, I will only make this change if Etaroko would not mind. Hope to hear from you all!

KK

I'm sorry, but I have a really difficult time with sheet music. I do everything by ear. I could always give you a MIDI file or something, but aside from that, I don't really know standard notation for each instrument. I understand the regular notation for piano, and that's about it. I'd really like to participate, as I think I could come up with something at least worth listening to given roughly 3-4 weeks.

My only problem is the sheet music. If there is a compromise we can come to, or perhaps if someone can lend me a hand with notation after I've completed my composition, that would be superb. Otherwise, I won't be able to enter, and I'd really really like to, that is, if you plan on extending it.

Please extend it. T-T

Hey KK,

I don't care. You can change things up if you need to. Don't worry about it. =]

I'm sorry, but I have a really difficult time with sheet music. I do everything by ear. I could always give you a MIDI file or something, but aside from that, I don't really know standard notation for each instrument. I understand the regular notation for piano, and that's about it. I'd really like to participate, as I think I could come up with something at least worth listening to given roughly 3-4 weeks.

My only problem is the sheet music. If there is a compromise we can come to, or perhaps if someone can lend me a hand with notation after I've completed my composition, that would be superb. Otherwise, I won't be able to enter, and I'd really really like to, that is, if you plan on extending it.

Please extend it. T-T

This would be a good chance for you to study and learn about music notation and the instruments of the orchestra. There is a lot of free information in the internet if you can't or don't want to spend money in books at the moment.

You can post the scores in your composition thread for revisions. People will help. :)

Question: If I am not going to consider going for the "Senior Composer" position, then should I bother participating?

Question: If I am not going to consider going for the "Senior Composer" position, then should I bother participating?

I second this question.

Should not you ask that question to yourself? o.O

Elezied: What Nyu001 said

If you submit your work, it will get a detailed review. I would encourage everyone to participate even if they don't intend to join. It will still be your decision to join my company or not. It's just an extra little topping on this competition as a prize.

The deadline has now been officially extended to July 1 seeing as how there is a number of interested people. This competition is a talent search but at the same time, it's meant to encourage members of this forum to try their best and hopefully learn something in the process. Many people, not just the judges, usually comment on competition pieces more than individual threads so its a big chance for beginners to get some advice. Again I am just saying and not trying to brag about how good I am...I am looking for someone who can write better than me:lol:

Also, thank you to whoever made this thread a sticky!

So again...

Deadline is now July 1 0:00:00am mountain time.
Minimum Length: 5:00min

Website: www.ambience-studios.com
More and more will be added as the summer continue but for now, its better than nothing :heh:

July 1st... Eh, I think I /might/ make it :D

Do, do, do... ^_^

Teehee one horrible composition coming up...!

Looking forward to it!

Hello everyone, I'm currently in China so I'm not on everyday. I came on to remind everyone that there are 7days left to submit. I hope there will be a few of you that will be submitting your pieces onto this thread.

If there are questions, I may not get around to it each day but i'll try to answer anything you might have at least 24hours before the deadline.

KK:D

I will start sequencing mines tomorrow probably if I don't get too many interruptions. o_O

Are we allowed to ask for feedback on the composition at all? Or is it purely you-do-everything?

Sorry guys. I was going to most likely submit an entry until my hard drive crashed. :(

Mushy: I'm not sure what you mean by feedback but once the deadline is passed, everyone is welcome to provide their thoughts on the entries. I just didn't want people commenting on entries before the final deadlines because it may discourage people from changing their compositions for the better if they get good comments.

Porsche: I'm sorry to hear that.

There is a little more than 24hours left. I may or may not be back before the deadline. I doesn't look like many people will be participating even with the 1month extension but I still hope everyone will participate.:sweat:

http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/mountain-time/

well, there is about 5hours left and still no new submission. It looks like we may have a winner by default. :(

I am working on mines right now. But I don't know if I will pass the deadline. x_x

I've got an early one up right now;
http://j.mp/aAl2uy

Does that count as a submission?

I might edit it for dynamics later on.


EDIT: Oh by feedback I mean ask other people about how to improve it before the composition deadline is here.

Hurray another submission wooot I love you!!!

I will likely not be here during the closing time but I will be checking the submission time based on the posted time of the thread. Hope I'll see some more submissions :sweat:

submission time based on the posted time of the thread.

Damn. XD

Hurray another submission wooot I love you!!!

I will likely not be here during the closing time but I will be checking the submission time based on the posted time of the thread. Hope I'll see some more submissions :sweat:

I think you should be lenient and just say any submissions before you say closed! lol!

OK, so I just really want Nyu001 to get to submit his...

Do you have a piece ready to be submitted Nyu?　ｉｆ　ｓｏ　，　ｇｏ　ａｈｅａｄ　ｃａｕｓｅ　there is only 2 submissions right now anyways. I am currently in China and the reason I wanted it before today is that it will give me exactly 2 weeks to review all the compositions (I go back in 2 weeks). So yeah, if you got one or anyone else for that matter, please submit. Note that if you are a winner and do decide to help me with my company, there won't be such gracious extensions :lol:

Well, I was going to submit, but my piece ended up only being 4:32, and it's kind of pointless for me to submit anyway...lol

KKK, I decided I will let this go for a few reasons. This would be unfair for someone that spent near one week composing whiles I doing it in a few hours and AFTER deadline now.

Well, since it doesn't look like anyone will be submitting so I will announce this competition officially over. I will be announcing the results shortly. Thank you to both participants. :sweat:

KKK, I decided...

Woops! :sweat:

Hello everyone, here are the results for the competition.

Mushy: The opening we agreed that it was too close to Canon and as such I did not believe this piece was high on creativity. This piece portrays one of the basic things in orchestration really well and that is that by increasing the number of instruments, you can increase the volume. However, there was a large lack of articulations and dynamic markings. The harp can only be tuned to 7notes and how it should be tuned must be written on the score at the opening and at every location where this tuning changes. The violin and woodwinds requires slurs desperately to provide the players with how the piece should be played. This piece will likely cause the orchestra to spend much time on coordinating breath and bowing during rehearsal because of this. The ending for this piece could have been worked on a bit more. The simplicity of a piano ending would work fine had this been a piano concerto. The drumset you added was a great idea but you did not execute it too well. This piece is quite "neo baroque" and as such, I believe you could have doubled the cello with the bass at the octave (sounding) instead of having it do nothing for 20bars. It will definitely give you a stronger support and more suited for the genre you chose. This piece had some very "busy" orchestration happening. Instrument switching rapidly and massive clusters on tuttis. I'm guessing that the non-harmonic notes on your tuttis were accidents. Something you should note is that doubling at the union does very little and the effect is diminishes as more and more instruments play at the same time. Having the second trombone double the tube in its lower registers while everyone else is playing will just end up having it downed out. If you wish for it to give support, double it at the octave or on one of its other harmonic series. The flute playing around their lowest ranges while the trombones and trumpets and tubas are playing at the same range will definitely get drowned out. They might as well not be playing. I could be wrong on this but I believe the convention is that when there are 2 horns, you write them on 1 staff and when there are 4, you write on 2 staves with 1,3 on the first staff and 2,4 on the second.

Listening to the overall piece, I think you're off to a great start and it depicts what you intended it to, "the sun came out."

Etaroko: I loved the opening. The grace notes on the harp was a nice touch at section B. You, like Mushy, did not state the harp tuning on the score. There were several moments in your piece that I thought was really well written, like the piccolo at 6bars after B. The presentation wasn't perfect in the recording but it was good enough to get a good idea of what it may sound like. The orchestration were decently done. The strings do not need every down bow and up bow marked. The concert master does that. The composer only needs to write out slurs and articulations. I thought that you had kept this piece too safe and you ended it too early. Especially since you seemed to have started into a new motif at around 6:40 and just ended it. This piece feels like it has a lot more potential then what you gave it and that you could have taken it much further.

Both of you had asked me about percussion orchestration. It is actually quite simple and for the most part, common sense is all that one needs because many percussion only plays one or two sounds. I am more use to seeing each percussion instrument on a separate line but I think the way Etaroko wrote it works great as well. For percussion the instruments would usually be grouped into groups based on the player. If you want percussionist 1 to play bells, gong, suspended cymbol, and wind chimes then you put those 4 instruments into 1 group or onto 1 staff. Also, do not write whole notes for instruments such as the bass drum or snare drum because they can't sustain their tone and you would confuse the player about whether they should play it as a tremolo or just hit once. Also, always think about how the instruments are set up or imagine how you would set it up then write your music based on that. Try not to have the players move between eachother to get to the different instruments. Most orchestras will have 1timpanist and 2 percussionists. They might have 3 if you're lucky. For this competition, I did not penalize on things like that because I did say you could use how many ever instruments you'd like which meant it would assume you have unlimited number of players but we all know this is very hard to get in real life.

For this competition, I've decided there will be no first place.

1st: N/A
2nd: Etaroko
3rd: Mushy

As a composer, it was great to hear the two pieces but as a business owner, I did not believe either pieces were up to the standard we were looking for. I hope that this comment did not offend either composers and I hope that both of you will continue to work on your abilities. I am always looking forward to hearing more compositions from the both of you and every composer on this forum. I would like to thank both composers for all the work they put in for this competition and I may or may not hold another one in the future.

I would like to congratulate Mushy, because he went offline (I think?) for one week to work in his composition. And this showed a big dedication from his part. :)

I congratulate Etaroko too for his composition. I would have liked to see the score cut when there were a lot of empty stave... xD

Thanks Nyu~

And thank you very much, KK for hosting this competition - or else I'd never even make anything :P

It's been interesting participating in this contest, though I would have liked to see more entries...