Any interesting opinions on this subject? My country practices this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Singapore), and so I will have to serve my 2 years when I finish my studies here soon, before I can further pursue my university studies. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about this, to help open my mind. :heh:

Well there's pros and cons to it. One major pro is it teaches people discipline, which I feel is greatly lacking in a lot of nations. It also teaches people that we are involved with what a country is doing, rather than letting there be two cars driving: one being the country and the other being your life.

But at the same time, there's heavy cons. People whom do not want to be there will be there. Never would I ever want a brother in arms whom didn't want to fight a war on my side; he'd simply run away and be disgruntle at all times. Also, the number of years in your life spent in the military could be applied to your job. It's hard to say that "this is the time you must enlist" if your having the time of your life with the extended freedom you get as being a civilian.

First, realize that war is a giant farce. It's nothing more than greedy old politicians sending other people to die for their political games. There's no such thing as "fighting for your country."

But it's not all bad.
Taiwan also has conscription, and my friends there tell me it's a good way to build character. Others went back to Taiwan just for the conscription - to build character. There are other ways to do it - to have people screaming violating shit in your face and not flinch or waver a single inch - but if you live in Singapore, might as well use the military as training.

Just realize that you're in it for yourself and forget the whole fighting for your country crap (keep it to yourself lol), and you'll be in good shape.

So, just lay down arms and let those that don't agree with us kill us? That's a fun way to see life. Where I come from, wars are fought when a threat is seen that would take the lives of the nation. I'm not sure about you, but rather than being passive aggressive about it (like the whole North/South Korea situation), you're more likely to solve a problem by being open about it and declaring war, be it commerce, politics, or fighting (which it always goes in that order).

Have fun Gandhi.

Good morning troll, I see you haven't learned your lesson.

What cryskolt wants to know is how conscription fits into his life before he goes to pursue his university studies.

Not everyone cares about geopolitics as a subsitute for a large e-penis. Happy people can never be persuaded to fight a war. And I think cryskolt is a fairly happy person.


Instead of being filled with holes and lead for people who don't care about you, let's go to the peace rally and get laid!

But I've met many people that are happy with their lives that go off and fight a war and remain happy after the fact. Yes, the people on the front lines that deal with the rawest form of war do have some things they have to cope with, but that's only about 30-40% of a military force -- Sun Tsu talks about this. Most don't even see any time on the line (errata: I only know about United States in this matter), and instead work as a clerk for the government, do research and logistics, or stand at watch at military bases.

The definition of happy changes as you gain experiences in life: all experiences. Failure to acknowledge that experience is the same as denying yourself of happiness.

People tend to focus really hard on the fact that military is centric only to war, whereas it's more of the government's contracted work force that they can use easily and freely and however they need to.



At core, conscription is a form of give and take. No one person actually owns anything of worth in a nation, as that would form a bund within the state. You borrow things from the government, such as land and public services like the police and the courts, and you pay taxes in return for their services and goods. Some nations feel that time is an important resource, so they add that to the taxing, with rules like 2 years of service, or forcing education of youths for twelve years of their lives. It's all a matter of perspective on what kind of worth is important.

I see it as two years of:
Healthy living [free food and bed for two years while being coached into good health.
Career assisting [helps people decide upon a career]
Defence boosts [you'll mostly just be trained to run distances and not get shot, as apposed to full scale offensive tactics]
New friends.

Personally I'd love if England still did all this. But instead we're a bunch of nanny state citizens that just accept everything with weak complaints. Dispite the point that I personally always fail the medical test because of diabetes, I really would love such an oppertunity to be involved with my country instead of just paying a twenty percent value added tax on everything.

First, realize that war is a giant farce. It's nothing more than greedy old politicians sending other people to die for their political games. There's no such thing as "fighting for your country."
Derp.

What cryskolt wants to know is how conscription fits into his life before he goes to pursue his university studies.
I don't think so.

[Military Conscription?]Any interesting opinions on this subject? My country practices this, and so I will have to serve my 2 years when I finish my studies here soon, before I can further pursue my university studies. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about this, to help open my mind.

Hes asking generaly about peoples opinions on military conscription, mentioning his current situation and asking for others thoughts so as to gain perspective.

It's also mildly amusing that youd chastise M for expressing his opinion and call him a troll, because he questions your own blanket statement about geopolitics.

I personaly would have to agree with Han, a large part of me would have liked living in those conditions for a year or two, I guess it would have sucked while I was there but in retrospect would have been nice.

I find that learning skills and being in good shape would be nice "Pluses" to having to get used to organized/planned life for a while. It would also be a good thing for those people who have always lived in the same place (I can't speak for them, just a thought.) as I think its good to have a change of scenery/people every once in a while since it helps one be more understanding/open to things.

The other part of me is just lazy, admittedly I'd never like to see combat as it scares the shit outta me. But I would like to be able to have some form of preparation should a combat-like situation ever arise in civilian life.

This is a bit convoluted (my brains asleep still) sorry bout that.

First, realize that war is a giant farce. It's nothing more than greedy old politicians sending other people to die for their political games. There's no such thing as "fighting for your country."
So I guess when nazi Germany was tooling around, Europe should have just "attended peace rallies and gotten laid?" Are you sure M's the one trolling in this thread?
Obviously, the reasons countries going to war are never purely white (or black). Blanket statements like the one you just made are almost always completely wrong, though.

As for conscription, there are obviously pros and cons to it. On the one hand, I'm sure they get your ass into shape (physically and mentally; military discipline would help a lot of people, even when they return to being civilians). On the other hand, getting pulled into the military during wartime would either suck a little bit, or suck to death, depending on your luck. Personally, I'm glad my country doesn't have conscription. I'd rather have people choose for themselves whether or not they want to pull some (military) weight for their country.

Conscription in Singapore and Taiwan isn't what the Americans or the British think it is. It has nothing to do with being forcefully pulled into fighting war to protect your nation.

In countries like Singapore and Taiwan, conscription is a brief 2-year period where you spend time receiving military training before you leave the military, forget everything about it, and go on with your university plans as if nothing happened.

In other words, it has nothing to do with war. Cryskolt wanted to know how conscription in Singapore will affect his life, and how he can think about it.

Conscription in Taiwan is exactly the same as Singapore's, and I know plenty of people who partook in it.
America and Britain have no conscription, so all they can do is make distant guesses while bringing in all sorts or arguments about the ultimates, the shoulds and shouldn'ts that nobody cares about, exactly like those people who want to deny other people's rights to abortion when it has nothing to do with them personally, exactly as the Americans and British do.

It's the context: We're not talking about the morality of war. We're talking about conscription in Singapore.

So... your position can be reduced to "Lol you're gonna do it and then move on with your life." However isntead of stating that and using your aparent knowledge of military conscription in Singapore and Taiwan to discuss things like living conditions, gereral attitude of those present etc. or even discussing options for maximizing his time there (whatever his ambitions might be) you choose to go "lAWLZ M WhY u Trollan!"


Cryskolt_19, my advice is to get in contact with people who've already done it. I don't know how it is in Singapore or if you're even living there. I do however have a few korean friends who had to serve time, they mostly said it sucked but some admitted it could be quite bearable and even fun if you didn't go into it with the wrong frame of mind. Depending on what you're furthering your studies after your time, I suggest maybe finding out if theres anything related you could spend time in. Ex: If you're gonna do medicine or something tech related perhaps theres oportunities to further focus on those areas within the military so as to gain some form of related experience.

I obviously don't know if this is possible, but it won't hurt to ask.

While in the British armies you can use them to gain any number of qualifications and training routes into a career of your choice. You may often hear stories of how military has changed people for the better, but I've only heard it put as a negative change to anyone through mental scars like shell-shock or physical fatalities.
So if you see it as just home land defending and training in safe conditions then it can only be a good thing in my British mindset standards.
Oh and Zero, instead of just bashing everyone comments with "you don't know s**t." How about you give some actual conversation about your points?

This is the reason why we can't have meaningful discussions with the current lineup of members.

Cryskolt wanted us to give him our thoughts on conscription in Singapore. And here's the sequence:
1. M gave his independent thoughts.
2. I gave my independent thoughts.
3. M proceeded to attack me out of personal spite.
4. I give M a taste of his own medicine and point out that debate isn't what this thread about, and the rest of the thread is everyone turning this into a debate, while I'm trying to steer the thread back on track, which is giving Cryskolt our thoughts on conscription in Singapore.

So, unless Cryskolt wants this thread to remain open, I suggest the staff close this.

Tell us more about your apparent knoledge of Singapore conscription please.

Conscription in Singapore and Taiwan isn't what the Americans or the British think it is. It has nothing to do with being forcefully pulled into fighting war to protect your nation.

In countries like Singapore and Taiwan, conscription is a brief 2-year period where you spend time receiving military training before you leave the military, forget everything about it, and go on with your university plans as if nothing happened.

In other words, it has nothing to do with war. Cryskolt wanted to know how conscription in Singapore will affect his life, and how he can think about it.

Conscription in Taiwan is exactly the same as Singapore's, and I know plenty of people who partook in it.
America and Britain have no conscription, so all they can do is make distant guesses while bringing in all sorts or arguments about the ultimates, the shoulds and shouldn'ts that nobody cares about, exactly like those people who want to deny other people's rights to abortion when it has nothing to do with them personally, exactly as the Americans and British do.

It's the context: We're not talking about the morality of war. We're talking about conscription in Singapore.
Huh? I know what conscription is...being forced to go to war in desperate times (eg, Americans during WWII) is what we call "drafting" over here, not conscription. You're right though; I wasn't talking about conscription when I answered your post, which is why I only quoted the beginning of it, where you made the statement that (all) wars are giant farces, entertainment for evil old men who have nothing better to do. That kind of hyper-pessimistic talk bothers me, because it simply isn't true, lol.

You're right, though. We should all try our best to stay on topic. As you said, this isn't a "are wars morally justifiable? Y/N?" thread. It's a "how bad is two years of military training gonna suck for me?" thread, lol. Also, you're getting a lot of flak for your statement in this thread, but I don't think it's personal coming from anybody (especially not me). I'd be giving you shit for what you said no matter who you were, hahah. =D

Thanks for all the info guys! Haha, I still want this thread to be open, there's still more gold that can be discussed here. :heh:

Like what Zero said, I want to know how conscription applies to my life before I pursue my university studies, so that I can at least feel better when I go in to serve my time. But I also would love to know everything else, like the geopolitical side of conscription, personal thoughts on conscription, advice on what I can do to prepare, and more as long as they are relevant. Any piece of information is useful to me. :)

Oh and yes, notwithstanding the arduous training, being in conscription has its share of perks as well, like what all of you have mentioned. Some of the conscripts I've seen earn their road licenses by driving army jeeps during their time! XD

I think what Luis said was very important, I have to go in with the right frame of mind. If I feel okay with my enlistment, then most probably my two years will be smooth sailing.



Here are some of the several issues I have in mind regarding the conscription here. Feel free to take this information apart.

- Because males have to serve before they can actually enroll in a university, I'm worried about how rusty my college education will be by the time I finish my two-year ordeal. Girls don't have to serve their country, so they will get the edge when it comes to their studies because whatever they've learned in college would still be fresh in their minds when they enter university. Universities here don't ever fool around with their standards, so for those who just finished their conscription, no leeway would be given to them when they study in that institution.

- In the conscription, although it is largely military, there will be select thousands who will serve in the Police Academy or the Civil Defense academy. Perhaps I'm biased, but from what I've heard, these academies are less grueling than the army. They conduct their training near city areas, they don't lug around heavy weapons, they do night patrols in non-forested areas, etc. There is no mention of the selection process, so some people have speculated that the selection team is practicing double standards when it comes to picking these candidates. Anyone who's looking for an easy life would definitely prefer to work under these academies.

- During the conscription, enlistees with girlfriends will mostly like go through relationship problems when they are in the army. Because they have to put in their primary commitment into the army, their girlfriends will most likely feel neglected and start giving headaches to their boyfriends. The combined pressure from the army and their girlfriends will eventually lead to a breakup between the two couples. Or, these girlfriends will feel neglected and start chasing for another man behind that person's back. In fact, take this into consideration; Attached girls who are studying in a university while their boyfriends are serving in the army. Anything can happen in between these two years of separation that can ultimately ruin their relationship. For example, the girl might stop resisting and find a nice guy from her university to date and fool around with. Or, the girl might be impatient and attach herself to someone who's already employed, earning a decent income and free from any major commitments besides work. Very difficult to maintain relationships while serving your country.

- Last but not least, people who are musically inclined will find it a complete waste of time to serve two years of military conscription to their country. Imagine the skills you can perfect/master on your preferred instrument using these two years of your life. Or, imagine how much you will lose when you abandon your instrument for 2 years. Not a good investment for aspiring musicians...

This is the reason why we can't have meaningful discussions with the current lineup of members.
Actually it kinda went down like this.

1. M posted his opinion, based on a rather general idea of conscription. According to his arguably misinformed idea his post was perfectly relevant. (Post 2)

2. You went with a "WAR BAD! EVIL POLITICIANS" opener based one a single sentence in M's post, and failed to correct him using your aparent familiarity with the topic. This gave way to a separate debate not related to the topic this thread was intended for. (Post 3)

3. M responded to the separate debate which you allowed to start, (he is as responsible for continuing it) and did so in a rather sarcastic manner. He did however pose possible alternatives to actual combat situations. (And thus the geopolitics debate was born.) (Post 4)

4. You proceeded to insult (atleast in my opinion, YMMV) M, and go on to get all high and mighty about being on topic, ignoring the fact that you're part of the problem. Rather than keep it at "Lets get back on topic." you chose to continue the sarcastic/juvenile remarks. (Post 5)

5. You chose to clarify. and shoot down the very topic you brought up in post 2. (Post 10)

6. You were asked to use your aparent familiarity with the original topic (Posts 11 and 12)

7. Complained no discussion could be had. When you yourself are choosing to impede it via bringing up weakly related topics, complaining and all round being a child. Not only that but you suggested the closing of a thread cause yer feelings got hurt. (Post 13)

Grow up. ;)

@Cryskolt_19:

Do you know, or have ideas on what you're going to study? I realize the 2 year gap might allow for procrastinating this decision, but I think if you have a choice, or even a general idea you could atleast use what little free time you have to try and figure out if its really for you, if ya know what I mean.

Depends what you're studying, personaly I find I can easily pick back up most subjects after an absence. I realize 2 years is quite a long time but I can still keep up with my engineer buddy within a couple hours (Haven't done math/physics in 2 years. I won't say I'm very good at it but through some of his smart explanation and a bit of memory I keep up well enough atleast in casual conversation.) I'd think this is the same for everyone, if you study to know rather than pass that is.

As far as the Civil Defense Academy... well thats rather interesting. I would personaly hope for the "tougher" one, since well "I'ma do it once, mightaswell do it right." kinda attitude. The negatives of forested areas and heavy weapons, are atleast to me positives. You'll pickup more usefull... for lack of a better word "Survival techniques" by being outside your comfort zone. I'm not hoping you'll ever be in a screwed up situation but even little things can be helpfull/impressive in every day life, and carrying a weapon should help with your overall fitness. I realize it'll suck for a while but once you're used to it the effects should be aparent in every day life. It's WIN-WIN! :P

Girlfriends are... well always a problem. IMHO relationships can be rather fragile things. I'd say if you have someone now talk it out, not 3 weeks before you're off but a while before. I personaly would rather have it fall apart before than during my leave. If you think you can last through it go for it I guess, plan for the best and expect the worst.

I can't really speak for those who play instruments, I've always asumed it was a lot like riding a bike... I never really gave it much thought. The closest thing I can imagine I do to playing an instrument is ...sadly enough Xbox. I think people underestimate our ability to remember things, especially when it comes to muscle memory. As far as timing, pitch etc all that crap IDK about...er good luck I guess?

If I feel okay with my enlistment, then most probably my two years will be smooth sailing.
You have to do it either way. I don't think any of us can bestow upon you the right frame of mind, hahaha. So just go in and be a team-player, since you're required to do it. Once they release you, you're the only one who look back and evaluate whether it had a positive or negative effect on you. If it was good then great, if it was a bad experience, then become politically-involved to change things. That said, if you go into it with poor expectations, then don't be surprised if your expectations turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

One more thing: I can't help but notice you like to start threads that have the potential to turn into arguments. I guess it's not really your fault if people can't debate politically-charged topics without name-calling or arguing, but I have noticed the connection, in any case. So I'll be watching you. =P *sarc*

You're right, though. We should all try our best to stay on topic. As you said, this isn't a "are wars morally justifiable? Y/N?" thread. It's a "how bad is two years of military training gonna suck for me?" thread, lol. Also, you're getting a lot of flak for your statement in this thread, but I don't think it's personal coming from anybody (especially not me). I'd be giving you shit for what you said no matter who you were, hahah. =D I imagine my soldiers drawing a line behind where I'm standing, and I order them to fill my back with arrows should I ever step over that line. BRING IT ON GIMPS! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v291/ZeroIchigo/emot-ussr.gif


@Luis, M, Hantony:
Some people like to argue for the sake of arguing. Debating about who's more right isn't what Cryskolt wanted.
Some people add to the conversation for the sake of opening horizons, which is what Cryskolt wanted.

If you're the former type, you might want to consider leaving this forum. There are debate clubs and debate forums that are much better suited to your interests. Not to mention, none of you really post in the music sections. So, why are you here at Ichigo's anyway?


Like what Zero said, I want to know how conscription applies to my life before I pursue my university studies, so that I can at least feel better when I go in to serve my time. But I also would love to know everything else, like the geopolitical side of conscription, personal thoughts on conscription, advice on what I can do to prepare, and more as long as they are relevant. Any piece of information is useful to me. :) The important thing is to not let the military brainwash you. Would you die for your country? Or would you die for music? Which is more important to you in the grand scheme of things - political games, or the beauty and love of music that opens people's hearts all around the globe?

Since you live in Singapore and you can't escape the 2 years, you might as well use it as personal training. Doesn't help for musicians, but there are things outside of music you can focus on: Character

Are you able to face somebody cursing violating things in your face and not waver or flinch single bit?
Are you able to feel the immanency of pain and death, and still remain wide open in love?
Are you able to learn to trust others, to help them rise up, even if they're a pain in the rear?

These are all very masculine traits that other parts of the world have completely forgotten and abandoned because they don't have these kinds of ritualized training for men like in modern North America and Europe.

That's how I would use the military training. If you handle it well, you'll come out a different man.


- During the conscription, enlistees with girlfriends will mostly like go through relationship problems when they are in the army. Because they have to put in their primary commitment into the army, their girlfriends will most likely feel neglected and start giving headaches to their boyfriends. The combined pressure from the army and their girlfriends will eventually lead to a breakup between the two couples. Or, these girlfriends will feel neglected and start chasing for another man behind that person's back. In fact, take this into consideration; Attached girls who are studying in a university while their boyfriends are serving in the army. Anything can happen in between these two years of separation that can ultimately ruin their relationship. For example, the girl might stop resisting and find a nice guy from her university to date and fool around with. Or, the girl might be impatient and attach herself to someone who's already employed, earning a decent income and free from any major commitments besides work. Very difficult to maintain relationships while serving your country. "I'm spending 2 years in the military. You can do what you want."

@Solaphar
One more thing: I can't help but notice you like to start threads that have the potential to turn into arguments. I guess it's not really your fault if people can't debate politically-charged topics without name-calling or arguing, but I have noticed the connection, in any case. So I'll be watching you. =P *sarc*Eh, it's more an issue of the argue/debate/troll types here who argue for the sake of arguing. Once they leave the forums it'll all be smooth sailing. Until then, these things will keep happening even in less directed threads. It's a lingering effect of having that General Chat thread around for too long.