Okay. So a few people on the composition forum were all "ooh, we should make a board about how to make money with music." Your welcome. XD

But anyway. Let's discuss this. :P From what I've seen, it seems people generally aren't informed on the "right" way to go about getting a job in the music industry. Most of the ones I've seen on the internet either just didn't know that music is one of those job industries where you HAVE to network if you want to pay the bills, or treated it like a "normal" 9-5 job instead of the 24/7 deal it actually is and consequently didn't put the effort into practicing and networking in order to actually make money. Besides that, I would have to say a LOT of people are under the impression that gigging is where the money is, when it definitely is NOT. Unless if you are soloist with a philharmonic where they pay you thousands of dollars to play the Dvorak cello concerto with them. XD

Hm. I don't know if I can agree with you that playing gigs and concerts isn't the way to go.

In short, if you want to *not* be a starving artist, you must become flexible. You should not be bound by one expertise, at least musically for sure. If you can play the piano, that's great, but that doesn't give you much else that you can do. Knowing how to accompany is a BIG plus (as a pianist); playing chamber music, orchestra, solo, concerto, etc. Different styles such as jazz and contemporary also helps you to *not* become a starving artist. Although not everyone can do it, teaching is the biggest thing that you should consider if you want to have a career in music -- mark my words. This doesn't mean becoming a professor at Julliard, but *something.*

Networking is a huge key in the music business, just like it is when it comes to any field of entertainment. This is one of the reasons that musicians are advised to go to some sort of college for music. One again, not Julliard, but even a nice state school can do you well. Now, with the topic of schools, most musicians tend to go for *at least* a Master's with some sort of music degree, possibly a double degree is in there. Schooling give you the experience of the musical field -- the pressures, the luxuries -- the whole bit. Music school isn't for everyone, however, if you want to go somewhere, this is one of the smartest investments that can land you a career of some sort doing *something* musical.

I've been going through a LOT of stuff the past year, have done a lot of up-close research, and a lot of talking with people in the music business, music schools, etc. etc. etc. I do not have a career as it stands right now, but however, I have a great deal of knowledge from *very* experienced individuals (make that noted that I am *not* the one with the experience).

And I just want to re-iterate... playing concerts with a big city's philharmonic making thousands isn't the *only* way to go when it comes to gigging. *I'm sorry, that's just not true, at all.* My teacher, just for one example, plays many smaller solo-concerts every so often, goes on tours with his piano trio (of which is pretty well know, more in Europe), gives quite a few lessons a week around my area, and has a studio in Chicago. Rarely does he play with large orchestras playing concerti. In fact, those people who do that for a living have extremely stressful lives. If you want to make it big like Lang Lang, for example, all your time is given to your manager. If you want to make a career out of performing like that, then that's your life. Hotels are your home for several years, and you have to practice until your fingers bleed. Now, is this how to make a living off of playing concerts? In my humble opinion -- not one bit. It's ludicrous, at least for me. I'd rather teach a few students, play a few smaller gigs, preferably with a jazz ensemble, and do chamber music as well. Heck, I'd love to be teaching at a music school somewhere (not a conservatory though... but I wouldn't mind that, of course).

Sorry if this blabs on...but it's 3 A.M. and this kind of stuff is hard to organize without a certain question presented. Maybe some will be brought out in what I said...?

EDIT: I want to also add something that has been said for eons with artists/entertainers: ALWAYS HAVE A PLAN B. This means, study something on the side which has interest to you, that might be a little more *practical* than music. For example, I plan on minoring in Economics in college, and I also plan on taking language (and hopefully culture) courses in Japanese. Not only could Music, Economics and Japanese (all three) c work very favorably in my music career, but even just one of them on their own is great opening to a career.

Another thing should be mentioned about schools. Just because you get your Bachelor's in music, doesn't mean you can't major in something else for your Master's (which is EXTREMELY nice if you want to study something else in expertise detail).

And I'm rambling again. Haha!

Any questions? I would love to answer them...and I'm sure other's here know quite a bit too!

Do funerals, marriages, and impromptu gigs at clubs. On average, I was paid 50 USD/burial (~1hr), 150USD/wedding ceremony (~2hr), and 250 USD/gig (~3-5hr). This didn't make me rich, but it certainly didn't make me poor. If you tie that in to an orchestra or band, you're actually not too bad off.

EDIT: I want to also add something that has been said for eons with artists/entertainers: ALWAYS HAVE A PLAN B. This means, study something on the side which has interest to you, that might be a little more *practical* than music. For example, I plan on minoring in Economics in college, and I also plan on taking language (and hopefully culture) courses in Japanese. Not only could Music, Economics and Japanese (all three) c work very favorably in my music career, but even just one of them on their own is great opening to a career.

I'll have to disagree a bit there. This (http://www.musiccareers.net/career-articles/from-day-job-to-music-career/) article explains the many cons of having a "normal" job while trying to pursue a music career. Number 3 and 4 on there is probably the 2 biggest reasons to just focus on a music career while in school instead of worrying about a plan B. I'm not saying a plan B is a bad idea, but it has to be something related to music so it doesn't hinder one's progress into the industry; so instead of just focusing on being a composer for example, teaching or performing would be a good plan B since they are easier to get into compared to composing, and it still helps someone break into the industry.

Back on the topic of gigging though, I think the main problem with it is there isn't money in it if you aren't solo. $250 for a gig might not be too bad, but if you have to split that with 4 other people for a band or string quartet, it isn't exactly a great amount of money. Add the $4/gallon that the gas prices are creeping up to, and you could actually end up losing money. Which is why I would only recommend people doing it for a way to make some extra cash instead of the main job one does most of the time.

I'll have to disagree a bit there. This (http://www.musiccareers.net/career-articles/from-day-job-to-music-career/) article explains the many cons of having a "normal" job while trying to pursue a music career. Number 3 and 4 on there is probably the 2 biggest reasons to just focus on a music career while in school instead of worrying about a plan B. I'm not saying a plan B is a bad idea, but it has to be something related to music so it doesn't hinder one's progress into the industry; so instead of just focusing on being a composer for example, teaching or performing would be a good plan B since they are easier to get into compared to composing, and it still helps someone break into the industry.

You do make a good point - but I have to disagree and go with Mazeppa on this one. I'm a double major in Math (Actuarial Science) and Music Theory/Composition; I used to be a Clarinet Performance major, and while I was, I always had discussions with my professor so that I would know what to expect after graduating. (As a side note, I did not switch my music major because of the lack of perceived job security.) Of course it's preferable for one to have both majors relating to music; however, music has been avoided as a major (or people have a second specialization) due to the small amount (or lack) of job security in the music industry. I've seen stories of music graduates who struggle to pay off their bills and student loans by the time they graduate because it is difficult for them each to find a job. My Theory professor once mentioned to my class that music "is one of those professions [in which] a lot of work can lead to nothing." Yehuda Gilad, easily the top clarinet professor in the U.S., teaches at University of Southern California and requires his undergraduate Clarinet Performance majors to double major (to note, he only takes 2 students per year, I believe).

To me, personally, the decision to take a second, seperate profession is based on the amount of risk of just going for a music major: most people (I included) would want to be able to survive and make a living when they graduate than struggle to make a living and having to deal with a lot of debt.

I'll have to disagree a bit there. This (http://www.musiccareers.net/career-articles/from-day-job-to-music-career/) article explains the many cons of having a "normal" job while trying to pursue a music career. Number 3 and 4 on there is probably the 2 biggest reasons to just focus on a music career while in school instead of worrying about a plan B. I'm not saying a plan B is a bad idea, but it has to be something related to music so it doesn't hinder one's progress into the industry; so instead of just focusing on being a composer for example, teaching or performing would be a good plan B since they are easier to get into compared to composing, and it still helps someone break into the industry.

Did you read everything that I had mentioned in my post? Right away I mentioned that you should know how to do more than one thing, in music. I used being a pianist for example; knowing how to accompany, play different styles, etc. All these things are "different" in the music business, because a pianist is always going to be in demand in some form of fashion. Myself, for example, consider myself extremely versatile because I am able to accompany, play jazz/modern music, play chamber music, play solo works, have a strong urge to teach, etc. So my plan A is a very strong plan A. My plan B mashes (as I've explained) with my plan A, so that even if I don't need to "fall back" on my plan B, the skills I learned can actually HELP with my music.

And I'll tell you, there's PLENTY of people who are double majoring as a music major and something else. Clari, for example. It's actually an extremely common thing to do. The school I am looking at going to, encourages people to become double majors in music, because it offers you a better education and it actually does add to your professional skills. I don't know where this talk of "just focus on music" comes from. It's the main reason why I am not interested in a conservatory education. In short, you get better "professional certification" at a university, where you take more than just music courses.

Honestly, if music doesn't work for you at all in any way, and you don't have a plan B set aside, then you're in the pretty big trouble. Articles on the internet are only articles -- I know people who have actually lived through going to school and know what it's about in the music field -- either it's 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or just one year ago.

You need some sort of plan B which can help you, that has more job security. This doesn't mean it HAS to be non-music. It could be music education. I consider that a plan B, because (for example) I would very much not like to direct high school ensembles. I would rather become an financial adviser, or translator, or something, to be quite honest with you.

Zippy, in humble seriousness, I think you should seek out and find musicians who play music and/or teach on a regular basis for a living, and ask them the basic questions of how the get into music, how to go to school and how it all works, in reality. I feel as if what you're presenting doesn't quite hold true with the real world.

In music, you can't just do one thing. Basically teaching is the only thing you could do, entirely without anything else, and not have to worry about making those bill payments. Like I said, you can't JUST play gigs. It doesn't work that way, unless you're Lang Lang (just an example, honestly) or have an outstanding career and are in demand. Every musician out there does more than just play concerts. Chances are, they also teach, accompany, give coachings (basically like teaching), fill in for people as well as play concerts.

I hope I do not come across as being stubborn or vicious, but I just feel that the facts presented, my friend, don't quite hold true.

In short, you get better "professional certification" at a university, where you take more than just music courses.

Zippy, in humble seriousness, I think you should seek out and find musicians who play music and/or teach on a regular basis for a living, and ask them the basic questions of how the get into music, how to go to school and how it all works, in reality. I feel as if what you're presenting doesn't quite hold true with the real world.

In music, you can't just do one thing. Basically teaching is the only thing you could do, entirely without anything else, and not have to worry about making those bill payments. Like I said, you can't JUST play gigs. It doesn't work that way, unless you're Lang Lang (just an example, honestly) or have an outstanding career and are in demand. Every musician out there does more than just play concerts. Chances are, they also teach, accompany, give coachings (basically like teaching), fill in for people as well as play concerts.

Of course I know we musicians need to do more than one thing. Guess I should have mentioned that. :P If composing for video games or whatnot didn't work out or took a while to work out, of course I would perform and (hopefully not since I fucking hate kids XD) teach. I really do hope I can make decent money with just performing and composing, because I would probably drop dead if I had to teach 4 year olds how to play cello every damn day. XD I don't know how my teachers do it...kids annoy me. xD

Definitely have to agree on the whole uni vs music conservatory thing too. The extra classes are a lot of work, but they are pretty damn interesting. Especially the astronomy lab...I figured if Holst got inspired for a whole orchestral suite, I could at least come up with SOMETHING. :P But anyway. I'm getting the same education at UNLV that my friends at music conservatories are getting, only difference is my tuition (which is pretty much all paid for with scholarships, so it's not even costing me much!) is 8k/year versus their 50k+/year. Which is why I've been trying to tell this to my friends who are still in high school...some of them seriously told me they would take out the 150k+ loan to pay for a school like Juilliard, and "just pay it off like car payments" when they graduate. :mellow: And no, I am NOT kidding. I hope they get some sense knocked into them, because I really don't want to be in the "I told you so" position when they have to work 3 jobs to pay for their school and not have time to even be a musician.

Come on guys, don't let this die. :P

I've recently formed a jazz orchestra and so we're hoping to get some gigs through our connections and hopefully get some extra coin for the summer! :D

I also do a lot of arrangements for concert band/orchestras, but I'm having trouble getting the rights to the music. Publishing band music is hard...

Self publishing is probably the way to go with your arrangements...if you manage to find a company willing to print the music, you might be lucky to get 10% of the sales. If you sell recordings on a site like bandcamp and offer the music with it as an incentive for people to buy it, that might work out better, not to mention you get more of your profit since bandcamp only takes 15% to run their site.

There's still the problem of paying royalties for the music. I can't seem to get any info on who to contact from these companies. >_<

Usually it's either the composer(s) or whoever owns the copyright to the original. I'm surprised the companies won't tell you though, because they are practically turning away money. :P

There are many great posts here.

Something that I do not see mentioned is the contracts. If you want to be safe, work always under a contract, and be always detailed. A poorly written contract may lead you to unwanted misunderstandings and troubles.

A good and common example for freelance composers would be the "re-writes", how many re-write are you willing to make without ask for extra money? How long would it take you to get done these re-writes? A client may ask you to re-write any X piece many times. You need to put yourself in a safe zone and let them know after any X re-write they will have to pay extra money or you will be losing money and time.

To me networking is one of the most important aspects here if you want to become a freelance musician. The more professionals you meet, the higher the chance will be that your name and music will run from mouth to mouth. Because it is not just if you are good at what you are doing and have a bachelor/master/PhD, if many people do not know of you, you are not going to get many recommendations, making it harder for you to find the next job. And if you are thinking to get a manager to not worry of looking for jobs yourself, you need to have already a lot of experience/credits in your pocket, so they can see that you will bring money to them.

Remember if you are working as freelance, you are a businessman. Not just a musician.

Wow, I don't know how I forgot to mention the importance of contracts. :P I have read so many stories on sites like AFM where people were promised X amount of money to do a job, and then the employer would pull the "Oh, I can only afford to pay you Y" BS since they automatically assume we are all starving artists desperate for work. This is why joining the AFM is probably a good idea, since they will write up the contract and make sure neither side gets screwed, not to mention the benefits like one gets with a union like pensions and healthcare. (although the healthcare does work a bit differently than what a "normal" job's union provides)

On the topic of networking though, where do you guys think are the best places to do so? I know sites like audiogang and conventions like GDC are great for people who want to compose for video games, but there are more places of course. Might be a good idea to post some of them here so people can know.

To me would be anywhere. Something important that you should have is a dedicated website to showcase your skills as a musician, and a business card. That way others can contact you easily and can listen to what you can do beforehand.