(Preface: I apologize for making this post so dreadfully long. But please do not be discouraged from reading it if only for the lengthiness. However, if you do not believe that you can be of comfort or assistance to me, I do not urge you to read it. I don't expect everyone to read it. ^_^ Even though it's practically an essay, please put up with it and read it if you believe you have something to say.)

Hello, fellow composers and composers-to-be. :)

I've been a composer for most of a year now, starting back in January this year. I started off with simple canonic classical pieces, usually one or 2 pages long (referring to score length, including violin and harpsichord). These are quite embarrassing upon listening to now that I have a vast collection of musical theory compared to then. Eventually, after a month or so, I began to become interested in video-game and anime music, and attempted to write some "thematic" songs myself, meant to evoke a certain mood or scenary to the listener. These, too, are quite embarrassing, with their false, weak, and unphrased character. :doh:

During the summer, my interest in composing was turned toward Medieval and Renaissance style music. I began to create compositions modeled after those of King Henry VIII and other disctinctly-Middle-Ages styles. This is where I first implemented phrasing (though I didn't know it at the time), gained a knowledge true harmony through 4-part instrumentation, learned through experience how to create chord progressions (and chords in the process), and learned how to write a theme. I had written about 70 of these until I felt I was experienced enough to write "real songs"...

... So I began to write piano solos. These would range anyway from 2 to 5 pages and last between just under 2 minutes to well over 4 minutes in length. These songs gave me an enhanced experience on how to create melodies, counter-melodies, intermix and intermingle different melodic "voices", and how to support melody with harmony. This brings me to where I am right now, typing this. As of now, I've composed nearly 60 piano solos and am quite content with the majority of them, though only a handful of them are, in my opinion, publically presentable. However, although I am, as I said, content with these compositions, they aren't my ideal forms of composition.

I idolize the music of Bach, Enya, Nobuo Uematsu, Yasunori Mistuda, and Yuki Kajiura among many other composers. I try to mix in elements of Bach into many of the songs I make. I try to implement Enya's style of tranquility and ethereality into my pieces, as well. I also try (or is it wish...?) to compose songs that would be worthy of either RPGs or Anime as the other three afore-mentioned composers do. However, my skills seem to be failing me: I've got an expansive collection of theory, harmony, musicality, and experience in my pocket yet I cannot seem to write something that is even remotely close to the caliber of any of the songs in any RPG or Anime, whether well-known or obscure. Sure, my piano solos are "quaint", but "quaint" doesn't make RPGs.

I've composed piano solos mainly because I know piano solos. I know that in a piano solo, there will never be more than 4 voices playing at a time, and even that is only in an extreme case. I know that in a piano solo, only one instrument will be playing, because there is only one instrument that it is written for. So, because of my experience with composing piano solos, I've become proficient in writing them but have suffered the effects of not knowing how to orchestrate for multiple instruments nor how to instrument a piece (I.E. choosing which instruments the song is for). Thus, after having written many piano solos, medieval pieces, and numerous feeble attempts at thematic and classical pieces, I seem to find myself insufficient where I once thought myself to be sufficient. I've tried to write pieces that involve several instruments and seem to always fail to create something of any worth. I would be delighted to be able to write something for more than just piano, but I cannot seem to; all the different melodic "voices" and instruments seem to throw me off and intimidate me. So that's why I've stuck to piano solos for so long.

I wish to break from my piano solos venue. I want to venture into the world of making songs that people won't become bored listening to. I want to write something like Yuffie's Theme from FFVII, Rena's Theme from Star Ocean II, or the Opening Theme from Wild Arms. These are songs that people won't get bored of listening to. They aren't piano solos. They've got a menagerie of instruments in them. So why is it that every time I try to make a more instrumental song than my piano solos, I seem to fail? :(

I'm sure that I mustn't be alone in this problem... :(


(Note: If it seems that I'm making a big fuss over RPG and/or Anime compositions, it is because I would one day love to be a composer for one or the other.)

WARNING!: The following is written by a non-composer (or maybe just a "poser") and should be taken with a generous portion of salt.

Why not try what I did. Shortly after becoming interested in Classical Music; instead of just listening to a piece, I began to actually read through the score of whatever it was that I was listening to. I started mainly with relatively simple Choral and small orchestral works. (Early Mozart and Haydn Masses and smaller works like Ave Verum Corpus, etc. and Vivaldi's The Four Seasons and various Overtures. (i.e. Rossini's Thieving Magpie.) I found early on that the best way to follow them was to mainly follow (in Choral scores) the Soprano line or (in Orchestral scores) the First Violin line and follow the other instrumental/choral lines as the opportunity presented itself. As I became more proficient at score reading, I began reading through larger and larger scores -- mainly Symphonies and large Choral works like Berlioz's Requiem.

You might try reading through and studying various scores. With your propensity toward Bach, I would probably recommend his Cantatas, the Brandenburg Concerti, the Orchestral Suites, the Mass in B Minor, his Passions, etc. You could also try transcribing various already extant Anime and Game pieces for orchestra. (I'm currently trying to transcribe a number of Movie songs into orchestral scores so that I can read through them as I listen to them.)

I hope that you find your Muse. Happy listening!

Edwin:

Thank you for your kind and speedy reply. I'll try what you said: I'll look through some of the scores of various songs that fit my fancy, especially those by Bach.

However, one of my main problems is still choosing which instruments to choose for a piece, and where to give an instrument a more prominent or solo line over the others at which points in the song, etc. It all gets to overwhelming... :/

In the mean time, I'll see if I can get my hands on a score from the Brandenburg Concerti. I'll also spend more time listening to works such as the Art of Fugue and try to mentally dissect the various voices.

Don't worry Gnomish, we all have our strengths and weaknesses, and acknowledging them is the first step towards improvement =)

First off, there's nothing really wrong with specializing in piano solos. For example, Chopin is mainly known as the poet of the piano, right? Do people think his songs are boring? Nope. By continuing on in this fashion, in time you will master it, and that's hardly a bad thing! =P

However, I do understand that you'd like to branch off to orchestral work, so I have some thoughts on that as well.

Mainly, you have to become familiar with the instruments. Once you get into university/college (or if there are some courses in your high school), take some courses on instrumentation. In the meantime, look up some books, and get your hands on some of those instruments at a band or whatever.

Most importantly, use your ear. You don't need books or a teacher to tell you about the sound of a particular instrument. You are your own judge. Just get into the purity of the sound. Each instrument should give you a certain feeling/thought/mood/colour . . so when you're writing a song, try to figure out the goal in that song, and choose your instruments accordingly.

Now for orchestration, that's a bit more difficult . . just like instrumentation, you should take classes on orchestration. But as suggested, for now you can simply examine some scores.

I find that the choice of instruments makes orchestration a bit easier. It's as if their natural effects/sound quality allows them to write out the music themselves for you (hope that made sense).

There's not much else I can say except for you to keep on practicing, just like you've been doing with all the other genre/styles. Don't give up . . just keep on working at it, experiment with the sounds, and soon you'll learn how to integrate all the parts together.

Can't wait to hear your big orchestral hit! ^^

Originally posted by Gnomish@Nov 13 2004, 03:03 AM
Edwin:

Thank you for your kind and speedy reply. I'll try what you said: I'll look through some of the scores of various songs that fit my fancy, especially those by Bach.

However, one of my main problems is still choosing which instruments to choose for a piece, and where to give an instrument a more prominent or solo line over the others at which points in the song, etc. It all gets to overwhelming... :/

In the mean time, I'll see if I can get my hands on a score from the Brandenburg Concerti. I'll also spend more time listening to works such as the Art of Fugue and try to mentally dissect the various voices.
Dover Publications, Inc. has an excellent series of relatively inexpensive ($10-$50) softcover scores in numerous genres (Symphonies, Choral, Concerti, etc.) and arrangements (full orchestral, piano/vocal, piano, etc.) from numerous composers. (Bach, Beethoven, Berlioz, Brahms, Mahler...the list is *HUGE!!!*) They can be ordered from your local music store and can even be found at your local Borders or Library. I have close to 150 of them in my own collection.

Alphonse:

Thank you for your lengthy and informative response. :) (Just as I expected from yourself.) I will further try to learn the effects that various instruments have regarding invoking emotions/color/thought. It's nice to know that it's not rare to be in my position. I have been trying to analyze the Brandenburg Concerti scores, but my lack of expertise in reading alto clef seems to slow me down a bit. I can read it, but it just takes time. :)

I think that my biggest problem will be acknowledging that a piece that I write will be for more than just 2 staves... I find it hard to split melodies among instruments. And a melody isn't the only thing that makes or breaks a song: unique qualities have greater impact. Think of Sephiroth's Theme without the drum beat which makes it seem like the beat of a heart, or the Wild Arms theme without the whistling solo part. This is something that I have a hard time achieving. But I'll try to find my way around this problem. :)

I would be completely content with my piano solos if it weren't for the fact that I yearn to be a VG Composer. Who ever heard of a VG with all piano solo music? :( That's a large hurtle for me.

Edwin:

Thank you again for your information regarding scores. I have seen these Dover Books on Amazon.com before and will consider purchasing a few of them. :)

Something that might help you is to look at your own piano solos - you've made them harmonise, right? Think about how you could split it into different parts and what effect you want. If you're after a mellow piece, a combination of strings and woodwind are nice - flute, violin, piccolo or soprano clarinet for high registers, oboe, violin, alto clarinet or Bb clarinet for middling ranges, Bb clarinet, violin for low ranges and cello, double bass or bassoon for the bass clef.

For more jazzy, fast pieces, try a combination of brass with strings - trumpet, violin and saxophone for higher to middling registers, trombone for lower registers and tuba/cello for bass line.

The most versatile instruments in this lot are the trumpet, clarinet, flute, violin and oboe - you can also try chucking in guitars and suchlike for more plinky-plinky effects that can't be replicated on woodwind instruments. It's more a case of listening to each instrument to see what it sounds like so later on when you're after a particular effect you know what instrument to use, e.g.

Flowing, clarity - flute, piccolo, violin
Plinky-plinky - pizzicato violin, guitar, percussion
Flowing, muted/blurred - clarinet, violin, cornet, saxophone
Harsh, clear, note by note - trumpet, trombone
Mellow - clarinet, bassoon, cello

Hope it's of some use... try and practise this by transcribing your existing piano solos for orchestra - once you're better at grasping the effects and versatilities of different instruments you'll be able to compose entirely new pieces :) Your solos will sound entirely different!

P.S. In terms of solos, they're used most effectively in pieces that have quite a few instruments playing. Call and response works well in some pieces, while in others you can break up the passages by having solo introductions to them. Different sections can be themed, for example you could have a woodwind solo leading into a woodwind section and so on :)

Thanks, Madmazda, for your :)-filled reply. :P

You guys have inspired me again to venture into chamber music. Earlier I composed a short Adagietto and it turned out ok. Not too great, but ok. I'll get better at this. I'm going to conquer this problem of mine. :)

Originally posted by Gnomish@Nov 14 2004, 05:19 PM
I'm going to conquer this problem of mine. :)
"Crush your enemies! See them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!"

(Sorry; but, for some reason, whenever anyone says that, I think of the above line from "Conan the Barbarian"... ^_^)

Have the same problem :o All I did up to now was composing piano solos. Thanks for your advices everyone! ^_^ I try to write a song for orchestra atm... well I'll keep trying untill it works :P