Hello,

somehow, I'm not able to figure out the key of a certain piece, that I've arranged (attachment). Here is the original piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC3lSGqFd2U
Can someone help me out?

The most prominent sharp there is F. Then you have a lot of C and G, though it could be easy to say that a lot of them are accidentals. However, I would put your arrangement into D major. However, A major, G major, and D major are most prominent because there seem to be a lot of added and disadded accidentals in there :| Consider changing the key signature at different times? Not sure. I need more expert opinion. Sorry if this is rushed, I have to go soon, I'll help you after I return home from class k?

The most prominent sharp there is F. Then you have a lot of C and G, though it could be easy to say that a lot of them are accidentals. However, I would put your arrangement into D major. However, A major, G major, and D major are most prominent because there seem to be a lot of added and disadded accidentals in there :|

Thanks for your reply.

There is just one problem. If I change the key to G/C/A major then there is a lot of tones that I've to make natural (especially the F's).



Consider changing the key signature at different times? Not sure. I need more expert opinion.

It could also be a modulation (I have problems telling the difference between a modulation and a key signature change). But I'm not sure about it... (for example in measure 20).


Sorry if this is rushed,

No problem. Thanks for your help!


I have to go soon, I'll help you after I return home from class k?

Ok. Thank you!

Pieces like this one are hard to analyze, due to the parallel nonfunctional seventh chords. Personally (although some may disagree), if I were to ignore the bass line, the harmonic implication makes a lot more sense - and then I get a minor (from 1-8, excluding pickup) and e minor (or it could be a tonicization in e minor), starting at 9. At measure 14, it goes back to a minor, and basically repeats.

The a minor section, of your arrangement, would be 1-19, and e minor would be 20-26. Then repeat.

Pieces like this one are hard to analyze, due to the parallel nonfunctional seventh chords.


then I get a minor (from 1-8, excluding pickup) and e minor (or it could be a tonicization in e minor), starting at 9.

The measures 1-9 are like an intro, that I added. The tone/harmonic material of the intro are the measures 12 - 19.
This is why I'm wondering why you've put the intro in a minor and the following measures until 19 in e minor.


At measure 14, it goes back to a minor, and basically repeats.

Are you sure? Measure 14 is in the middle of the theme...
Perhaps, you've meant measure 16?


The a minor section, of your arrangement, would be 1-19, and e minor would be 20-26. Then repeat.

Do you think, that measures 20-26 is a key change or just a modulation (or even a pattern o.O?)?
If it's a modulation, than the overall key would be a minor.
If not, then I have to change the key in these section.



Thanks for your help!

I agree with clarinetist ^.^
The "whole" key of this piece seems to be A minor , even if I've got the temptation to say that it is modal but, I'm not so well-skilled to say it's true :\

So, I'll help myself with my (poor!?) harmonic experience, and by listening the song, I ear the 2 parts :

At the beginning, the Chord progression is like this : F, G, Am (a classical VI - VII - Im which is altered with substitution) because I have the feeling that the music call the Am chord which never come and is replaced (substituted?) by the Dmaj7.
So it's A minor (the last chord is the "exception").

Then, from measure 20, we should be in E major but, with the first chord (C) it seems wrong.
In fact if you transform the E major into E minor, you get another "classical chord progression" : C, D, Bm(7), Em ( VI - VII - Vm - Im ).
So I would choose E minor for this part, with an alteration of the G -> G# at the end. I remember it's called "tierce picarde" (oups, "Picardy third", thanks wikipedia :heh:)

To resume:
From 1 to 19 (included) : A minor.
From 20 to 27 (included) : E minor
From 28 to 35 (incluede) : A minor.
From 36 to 43 (included) : E minor.
From 44 to the End : A minor.

But at the end (last measure), it's seems to be another specific technical music trick that I don't know -_- (I would resume it by "Borrowed chord" (thanks wikipedia) :sweat: )

Well, If I was writing the sheet, it would be the keys I'll use ^_^

I agree with clarinetist ^.^
The "whole" key of this piece seems to be A minor , even if I've got the temptation to say that it is modal but, I'm not so well-skilled to say it's true :\

This means I can leave it like this. Okay! I trust you guys.


So, I'll help myself with my (poor!?) harmonic experience, and by listening the song, I ear the 2 parts :

Any help is appreciated!


At the beginning, the Chord progression is like this : F, G, Am (a classical VI - VII - Im which is altered with substitution) because I have the feeling that the music call the Am chord which never come and is replaced (substituted?) by the Dmaj7.
So it's A minor (the last chord is the "exception").

Ok!


Then, from measure 20, we should be in E major but, with the first chord (C) it seems wrong.

Really? It sounds right to me :/ Maybe Cmaj7 is a substitution for e minor?


In fact if you transform the E major into E minor, you get another "classical chord progression" : C, D, Bm(7), Em ( VI - VII - Vm - Im ).
So I would choose E minor for this part, with an alteration of the G -> G# at the end. I remember it's called "tierce picarde" (oups, "Picardy third", thanks wikipedia :heh:)



To resume:
From 1 to 19 (included) : A minor.
From 20 to 27 (included) : E minor
From 28 to 35 (incluede) : A minor.
From 36 to 43 (included) : E minor.
From 44 to the End : A minor.

Is it necessary to change the key in measure 20-27/36-43 or can I leave it like this?



But at the end (last measure), it's seems to be another specific technical music trick that I don't know -_- (I would resume it by "Borrowed chord" (thanks wikipedia) :sweat: )

Well, I don't know this techique yet...

Besides, I added the last two measures^.^
I didn't know how I should end the piece and I used Dmaj7 as the final chord because it appears to be right. Maybe I'm wrong...


Well, If I was writing the sheet, it would be the keys I'll use ^_^

Thank you very much!

Really? It sounds right to me :/ Maybe Cmaj7 is a substitution for e minor?

I'm talking about the key, not the chord :heh: => The key seems wrong because of the (good!) C chord ;)

And, you're right, the Cmaj7 go very well :)


Is it necessary to change the key in measure 20-27/36-43 or can I leave it like this?

Ooooooh yes, you have to :lol: !

In fact, even if these 2 keys are close (only one sharp make the difference, and as I remember, it's said that the tonality are close) you can feel the difference.... well it's pretty hard to me to explain* but the way of the melody and the harmonic construction give another tonality. So to "stay in law" with the music, you have to change the key. Well, this is my opinion, maybe the autor should write it differently :lol: but in a convenient way, it will be easier to read too !

About the ending, you can stay with the Dmaj7 chord. You can also finish in a "classical way" by this succession : Asus4 - A. It give a good conclusion :)



* (because I don't know all the technical terms in english - this is why "thanks wikipedia" :P )

I'm talking about the key, not the chord :heh: => The key seems wrong because of the (good!) C chord ;)

And, you're right, the Cmaj7 go very well :)

Oops! My mistake :sweat:




Ooooooh yes, you have to :lol: !

In fact, even if these 2 keys are close (only one sharp make the difference, and as I remember, it's said that the tonality are close) you can feel the difference.... well it's pretty hard to me to explain* but the way of the melody and the harmonic construction give another tonality. So to "stay in law" with the music, you have to change the key.

The problem is, it could also be a modulation (=temporary change of the tonalty). If that is the case, then I shouldn't change the key.


Well, this is my opinion, maybe the autor should write it differently :lol: but in a convenient way, it will be easier to read too !

I will think about it! Thank you!


About the ending, you can stay with the Dmaj7 chord. You can also finish in a "classical way" by this succession : Asus4 - A. It give a good conclusion :)

Oh, that's a nice idea. I'll try that one out.
EDIT: Sounds good! Now I have to decide, which one I will use. Hm, I hate decisions :D

Hm, I hate decisions :D

:D

Yes, maybe the other one is : will you take the part to say that the "second part" is just a modulation or that the piece is like this form : ABABAB.... :P

Maybe other members will give their opinion (if we let them the time to do so :lol: ), but for my part, I really see the piece with two distinct part, like others OST ;)

Edit: By the way, thanks to you reminding this nice song. It keep in minds !

Hey, Kimmel - the below quote that I made refers to the original piece, meaning the Youtube video.


...a minor (from 1-8, excluding pickup) and e minor (or it could be a tonicization in e minor), starting at 9. At measure 14, it goes back to a minor, and basically repeats.

Meas. 20-26, of your arrangement, although short, could either be termed a modulation to e minor or a tonicization ("short modulation") of the dominant of a minor. The last chord that you have is just a result of the phrasing that has been going on throughout the whole piece - it's approached through the use of the parallel descending nonfunctional 7th chords (i.e. the Fmaj7 -> emin7 -> DMaj7 pattern throughout the whole piece). It's not really a borrowed chord, nor is it a "standard" cadence (that I know of, at least).

@alpiso: I've never done modal analysis, but judging from the bass line, D dorian is suggested (in my opinion).

Hey, Kimmel - the below quote that I made refers to the original piece, meaning the Youtube video.

:hey: True ! In my messages I took the PDF attached as reference to count the measures.


the Fmaj7 -> emin7 -> DMaj7 pattern throughout the whole piece.

I didn't see this pattern, indeed, "it is an evidence" :P

Yes, maybe the other one is : will you take the part to say that the "second part" is just a modulation or that the piece is like this form : ABABAB....

Well, it has an ABA-form, but I "changed" it to ABABAB, because 45? seconds are too short ^.^


Maybe other members will give their opinion (if we let them the time to do so ),

Or if they want to ;)


but for my part, I really see the piece with two distinct part, like others OST

Ok :)


Edit: By the way, thanks to you reminding this nice song. It keep in minds !

You're welcome :D


Hey, Kimmel - the below quote that I made refers to the original piece, meaning the Youtube video.

Hello clarinetist.
Ok. I thought you were referring to my arrangement so I was a little bit confused.


Meas. 20-26, of your arrangement, although short, could either be termed a modulation to e minor or a tonicization ("short modulation") of the dominant of a minor. The last chord that you have is just a result of the phrasing that has been going on throughout the whole piece - it's approached through the use of the parallel descending nonfunctional 7th chords (i.e. the Fmaj7 -> emin7 -> DMaj7 pattern throughout the whole piece). It's not really a borrowed chord, nor is it a "standard" cadence (that I know of, at least).

Maybe this was the problem, why it was hard/impossible(?) for me to find out the key.

Thank you guys for helping me!

There is just one "problem" left, the tempo:

Should it be like this "Dotted quarter" = 54 or like this "An eighth" = 162 ?

Well, it has an ABA-form, but I "changed" it to ABABAB, because 45? seconds are too short ^.^

:lol: You do as you think it's the best ^.^ (and the arrangement you're doing sound well !)

About the tempo, it should be dotted quarter because your signature is 6/8 ;)
(even if, into the the editing software, you typed the tempo with an eighth)

:lol: You do as you think it's the best ^.^ (and the arrangement you're doing sound well !)

Thank you!



About the tempo, it should be dotted quarter because your signature is 6/8 ;)
(even if, into the the editing software, you typed the tempo with an eighth)

All right.

@Attachment: I tried to join some notes with beams and is it ok to leave it like this? Or should I join some other notes together, too?

For my part, you don't need to join other notes.
You have done a good cut and a good compromise about reading easily the rhythm and how it's writen ;)

Thanks for your help!

This is the result: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2qnJgRvXSk