A while ago I decided that since major and minor have certain guidelines for which chords to use where, why can't the other 5 modes?
4 of the modes are no different than aolean as they have a 1 , 4, and 5 in either major or minor. I know locrian has a b5 so it's a diminished chord but even that could have it's own thing. Anyway what I'm planning to do is take each mode and figure out what sounds best and still retains the mode's character. As in what substitutions in which modes work on which chords?

In mixolydian I've found that the chord that would act like the V7 chord in a minor key is ivmM7. Another good sub chord that leads you back to the mixolydian tonic is b6 chord based on mixolydian b6. :D

A while ago I decided that since major and minor have certain guidelines for which chords to use where, why can't the other 5 modes?

You decided it ;)?


4 of the modes are no different than aolean as they have a 1 , 4, and 5 in either major or minor

You forgot the ionian mode :)


I know locrian has a b5 so it's a diminished chord but even that could have it's own thing

Well, the locrian mode is a special case, since it is very unstable (because of its tonic [I-7(b5)]!). I don't know a composition that is just in locrian mode so far.


Anyway what I'm planning to do is take each mode and figure out what sounds best and still retains the mode's character.

You know, there are sounds that are stable and instable.
"Tonic sounds" (T) are the one which are stable (no tensions). "Cadence sounds" (C) will be the sounds that have lots of tension.

Dorian



I-7 T
II-7 C
bIIImaj7 T
IV7 C
V-7 C
VI-7(b5) -
bVIImaj7 C

Typical cadances are:
I-7 -> II-7 -> I-7
I-7 -> IV7 -> I-7
I-7 -> V-7 -> I-7
I-7 -> bVIImaj7 -> I-7

Phyrgian



I-7 T
bIImaj7 C
bIII7 (T)
IV-7 C
V-7(b5) (C)
bVImaj7 C
bVIII-7 C


Typical cadances:

I-7 -> bIImaj7 -> I-7
I-7 -> IV-7 -> I-7
I-7 -> bVImaj7 -> I-7
I-7 -> bVII-7 -> I-7

Lydian


Imaj7 T
II7 (C)
III-7 T
#IV-7(b5) -
Vmaj7 -
VI-7 T
VII-7 C

Typical cadences:

Imaj7 -> II -> Imaj7
Imaj7 -> VII-7 -> Imaj7

Mixolydian




I7 T
II-7 C
III-7(b5) -
IVmaj7 -
V-7 C
VI-7 T
bVIImaj7 C



Typical cadances:

I7 -> II-7 -> I7
I7 -> V-7 -> I7
I7 -> bVIImaj7 -> I7

Locrian

Doesn't have any typical cadances (yet).

Source(s) used:

- Frank Sikora - "Neue Jazz-Harmonielehre" (Book / Language: German)
- Own knowlegde


As in what substitutions in which modes work on which chords

Do you mean Modal Interchange?

Forgive me, I don't word things the best. :heh:

What you posted is great but I was referring to trying to solely use the other modes in a way that made is sound like that mode only.
Major and Minor are so flexible without moving out of key but people act like the other modes have to be confined in a two chord harmony and some take it a step further and try to keep the root note of that mode through both chords. I believe that to be close minded.

About locrian, I've worked with it and it has a good sound when used in a certain way but inorder to write something good in locrian you have to accept it. Same for the other modes. You need to accept that that's just the way that mode sound and don't expect it to sound like another mode. From there you can expiriement with alterations that work to resolve back to the original cadence of that mode. Locrian is unstable to normal harmony rules, when you accept the fact that it's unstable and get used to hearing that and expect it, it will start to sound complete and no longer unstable. :sweat:

I would use a idim - vi - idim as a good locrian cadence that or idim - v - idim, Play that over and over and tell me if that sounds good.

You said phrygian was the ii but I think viim7 is much nicer sounding. I just love it when you play em then dm in the phrygian mode, it sounds very relaxing and calm. Em - Dm - Em

Forgive me, I don't word things the best. :heh:

^^


What you posted is great but I was referring to trying to solely use the other modes in a way that made is sound like that mode only.

Yes, that's what I intended and what the table is for :)


Major and Minor are so flexible without moving out of key

It's because of our listening habits.


but people act like the other modes have to be confined in a two chord harmony and some take it a step further and try to keep the root note of that mode through both chords. I believe that to be close minded.

You're right!
I just wrote the typical cadences, nothing more and nothing less.
Of course, you can use other chords of that mode, but some of them are dangerous. Due to our habits we are used to think in major and minor. For example:
If you are in phrygian mode and use the chord progression bIII7 -> bVImaj7, then you properly won't hear it as such but V7 -> Imaj7 in ionian mode.


About locrian, I've worked with it and it has a good sound when used in a certain way but inorder to write something good in locrian you have to accept it.

Well, until now I don't know a good piece that is in locrian mode only. Show me one and I might rethink :)


Same for the other modes. You need to accept that that's just the way that mode sound and don't expect it to sound like another mode.

Yes, but that isn't easy to accomplish. I need more songs/pieces that are in one mode only. Do you know some?


Locrian is unstable to normal harmony rules, when you accept the fact that it's unstable and get used to hearing that and expect it, it will start to sound complete and no longer unstable. :sweat:

It sounds unstable for my ear :D And it sounds too weird, as well...


I would use a idim - vi - idim as a good locrian cadence that or idim - v - idim, Play that over and over and tell me if that sounds good.

I will try it!
(do you mean something like this: C°7 -> Ab maj -> C°7 ?)

In locrian V doesn't exist. Did you mean bV?


You said phrygian was the ii but I think viim7 is much nicer sounding.

Did I say this? Or are you referring to another post?


I just love it when you play em then dm in the phrygian mode, it sounds very relaxing and calm. Em - Dm - Em

Agree!
I-7 -> bVII-7 -> I-7

Yes, I meant b5 I just usually just say 5 because I know it's flat. :)

Here's a song written entirely in Mixolydian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p99J-qv5a2Q This band does alot in mixolydian and uses at very freely :)

Beatle's Help and Elanor Rigby are both in Dorian this the beginning of this song is also in dorian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI1c1h9jLWc It starts in D dorian and switched to F lydian during the Chorus.

Sorry, I'll have to make a song in locrian because there isn't one I know of, I've wrote scraps in locrian but I'm not very good at composing yet. I know that some metal bands have wrote songs in phrygian but I'm not sure, I just think I've heard it.

Yes, I meant b5 I just usually just say 5 because I know it's flat. :)

Ok :) I was just a little confused, because it could have a different meaning^^


Here's a song written entirely in Mixolydian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p99J-qv5a2Q This band does alot in mixolydian and uses at very freely :)

YouTube doesn't let me watch this^^


Beatle's Help and Elanor Rigby are both in Dorian this the beginning of this song is also in dorian:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI1c1h9jLWc It starts in D dorian and switched to F lydian during the Chorus.

Thanks^^


Sorry, I'll have to make a song in locrian because there isn't one I know of, I've wrote scraps in locrian but I'm not very good at composing yet.

I'll stay curios...