So to practice conterpoint and 4-part Harmony, I wrote this short, simple, Hymn style STAB composition.

http://chordspectrum.freezoka.net/sheets/Dorian%20Hymn.pdf
http://chordspectrum.freezoka.net/sheets/Dorian%20Hymn.mid

The key is D Dorian but I there is a short part in B Locrian as well. :sweat:

Well, since you're practicing this, I can't be too harsh on you, however, if it comes across as such at all, I apologize in advance. . .

1) This style isn't actually called "Hymn" style, but "Chorale-style" and you generally would say SATB, not STAB... because the order of voices, downward, would be wrong if it was STAB.

2) What you wrote here, if it was in a traditional chorale-style, isn't as such. Traditional chorale-style would sound almost nothing like this, and follows very strict part-writing rules. Not to mention there isn't any counterpoint in the piece. What is wrong with this piece, that it doesn't make it what you're trying to go for?

-- You say the piece is in d minor, however the key signature you give us is in either in C Major, or a minor. Even if you want the piece to be in a certain mode, you should write the tonic, and just write in the accidentals - at least in this piece, since you'd only be raising the Bb.

-- There are numerous instances where your progressions aren't traditional, nor are the chords that you used in the way that you use them (I'll do my best to point them out). In a traditional style, you almost never see a dominant chord in a minor key that doesn't have the third raised, making it major, and also, you would never see a minor(minor) seven chord used that way to begin with; usually minor(minor) seventh chords are used because of voice leading issues. And the use of the VII chord (the C Major chord...which is actually a Major(major) seventh chord too) isn't quite right. Usually the VII chord is in first inversion when in minor (which would put E in the bass) and would 'generally' move to the III chord, or an F Major chord.

-- Another thing to mention about your A theme, is your doubling, parallel perfect intervals, and your lack of the third in many of the chords. In order to make any chord, you NEED two notes: the root of the chord, and the third of the chord. Your entire first bar has four d minor chords playing, however, none of them have an F in them. You could even mistake these for D Major chords. You have parallel octaves in the Tenor and Soprano. When moving to the second bar, you spell the a minor7 chord fine, however, when you move to a seven chord to any other kind of chord, you need to keep something in mind. If you have all four notes of a seven chord, then the next chord cannot be complete, but has to have the fifth omitted, and the root tripled. You could have done this, going into the C Major chord with the Tenor rising to a C, rather than staying on the B, of course however this would cause a problem with the Alto crossing the Tenor voice in the next measure. [These are some things you're going to want to think about and change, if you want to write in a traditional chorale style.] When you get to the fourth measure, your "F Major" chord doesn't have a third, at least not until the second beat of the measure. Again, you're not quite using the VII chord correctly in minor. Skipping to the 8th bar, you're actually writing out a G Major7 chord, but you left out the third again. [You really should introduce the third of a chord first, and always have it present in a chord]. I'm also going to skip point out some of your specific doublings, because they're all written fairly wrong. Since all of your chords are written in root position (the root is in the bass). You should always be doubling the tonic, and never double the third and the fifth. Yet, in almost every chord you write, you double the fifth and leave out the third.

-- Your B theme is very, very strange, in that you're now using the VI chord in a way that isn't just wrong traditionally, but it doesn't sound that great in general. All diminished chords should be used as a passing chord, and never on the downbeat, or another strong beat of a measure (basically, 1 and 3). Try to use it on 2 and 4, and as a passing chord on the upbeat. Also, it isn't wise to repeat a diminished chord like you have done in measures 9-11. It should also be noted that you, once again, didn't use all of the notes in the first playing of the diminished chord, which is one of the few chords where you NEED the fifth present at all times when using it, of course, especially when you're introducing it. Also, you forgot the third in the G Major chord in bar 12, on beat three.

-- The last two bars, I found it funny that you actually wrote out the lyrics for the plagal cadence as "A-men." Now, when I listened to this I thought it sounded strange... an "A-men" chord, or a plagal cadence, is a IV-I progression, or a iv-i progression in minor. This would be you've also written this incorrectly. You wrote an e minor chord to a d minor chord, which would be a ii-i progression... what you need to do is write a g minor chord in the place of the e minor chord, since g minor is the iv chord in d minor.

Now, there are some parallels that I didn't mention, just because there are many more basic problems that need to be addressed, and you should really go over and analyze your part-writing when you're finished, and even when you're working on the composition. If this wasn't written in traditional chorale style, I would actually say that your themes and progressions are pretty good. I like the simplistic melody and the use of the seventh chords. But, since this was intended to be written in chorale style, there are many things you're (quite apparently) going to want to read up on and study. I wish you the best of luck, and I would encourage you to find someone to teach this to you on a regular basis.

^What he said. I like the melody, though.

Dang, that's a heck of an explanation. :\ Um, the key is D dorian, not D minor. It may not technically be traditional but
I was going for a hymn sound with the dorian mode. The B section is Locrian which explains the diminished chord, I like this part, I don't see why it doesn't sound good, not to be rude but in locrian, the diminished chord is 1 and by saying they should only be used as passing chords seems very close minded, sorry. I know it may be breaking rules but if it's a mode, the rules are different. I grew up in a baptist church so I just tried to write a chorale-style song that sounded like a hymn based on what I've heard and played out of a hymn book. So yeah, it's in a mode so you have to change your perspective a bit. The dorian mode can not have a major chord on the five because it sounds way to much like regular minor and I simply don't like to do that in dorian. I do like the sound of the song though, i dunno, I think the hymns we sing at church break a ton of chorale guide lines.

I see what you meant by the perfect fifths so I changed that so now they have thirds, also the B section has better chords not but it's still locrian.

http://chordspectrum.freezoka.net/sheets/Dorian%20Hymn2.pdf

Get a teacher? Unless you teach me, that's extremely unlikely. It's not easy to find a teacher plus you
have to have the money and I already take piano lessons but they're only 10 bucks a lesson. I live in a small town
and there is no teachers for music concepts like chorale writing, theres barely any piano teachers and may'be one guitar teacher. But where I live the primary focus of places is school band unfortuantely. <_<

There are rules to chord progressions, as with everything...here is what is most commonly used:
Movement up by fifths/down by fourths is the strongest type of progression (e.g. ii-V-I)
Movement up by seconds is allowed (e.g. V-vi, I-ii, IV-V)
Movement down by thirds is allowed (e.g. I-vi, vi-IV, IV-ii)
Anything can go to a I or V chord (but be careful)[\list]You can write whatever you want, no one's saying otherwise, but it's usually best to start traditionally and then branch out. If you're going to break the rules, it's a good idea to learn them first so you can break them right (no, really).

Tell ya what. Why don't you try harmonizing this for me?
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http://chordspectrum.freezoka.net/sheets/Choraleharmonized.PNG

I tried, but it's challenging, good exercise. I'm definate there are mistakes but I need them explained and how to fix them.
I avoided paralell fifths and octaves, there were thirds in all the chords this time and no voice crossing occurred.
Also notice how I used a Gm7 which I mean to lead into the V7 with a half step movement. I assume those were the bass notes (The cadences) not the melody, so I tried, thanks for taking the time to help me with something. :lol:

You changed the bass notes, and you also made the bass go out of it's range. Your vii diminished chord is spelt wrong -- you wrote a [seventh] chord. Your tonic chord in beat four of the first measure doesn't have a 5th present. Your dominant first-inversion chord in bar two is spelt wrong-- you wrote a vii diminished [seventh] chord. You weren't asked to write a tonic with a seventh in the beat after that, and you also do not have a fifth present, and you doubled the third instead of the root.

Kentaku, you honestly need to study the basics and follow the rules before you start breaking them. You have to know what you're "breaking" and *why* you're actually breaking them.

Trust me, I know exactly what you're thinking. You consider yourself as an expressionist, and you'd rather not be brought down by rules and question them in the first place. But there's a reason why every successful musician and true artist has studied the music of old, and there's also a reason why I'm spending thousands of dollars to learn all of these kinds of things as well. You have to know where you come from before you truly know where you want to go -- and further more, you have to know how to get there.

Here's an inspirational video, albeit relating a little to jazz, it's great for any musician and artist of any specialty.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESXnffJnb7A

http://chordspectrum.freezoka.net/sheets/Choraleharmonized.PNG

I tried, but it's challenging, good exercise. I'm definate there are mistakes but I need them explained and how to fix them.
I avoided paralell fifths and octaves, there were thirds in all the chords this time and no voice crossing occurred.
Also notice how I used a Gm7 which I mean to lead into the V7 with a half step movement. I assume those were the bass notes (The cadences) not the melody, so I tried, thanks for taking the time to help me with something. :lol:

Some things I want to note:

1) From the viio6 to the V, you have all voices moving in what my first Theory teacher called "similar motion." Basically, you should make sure you have a voice in oblique or contrary motion at all times. (Some professors aren't quite as strict with this rule, but it's a good one to observe.)

2) The bass is too low. The origin of part-writing rules is writing for voices - consider that as you go through your part-writing exercises.

3) You have parallel octaves in ST, i6 to i (measure 2).

4) VERY awkward leap for the tenor, going from measures 2 to 3, and in the first two chords of measure 3.

5) Spelling issues: second chord of measure two is a viio6/5, first chord of measure three is a viio7, second chord of measure three is a i7.

Some general suggestions:

1) DO NOT start writing notes other than the chords that you are given yet. For now, go STRICTLY with what you've written for each chord - for example, even though you wrote "i" in the second chord of m. 3, you have a F in the alto - keep it as a g minor triad. Stay with triads. Do not go into seventh chords yet.

2) AVOID giving voices (other than the bass) leaps larger than a third (4ths are to be used VERY sparingly, 5ths almost NOT AT ALL).

3) When you DO start using 7ths, note that the 7th of the chord must ALWAYS resolve down. (Some professors aren't too strict about this rule, but when I don't follow it - at least in piano chorale writing, I notice it doesn't sound quite "right" if I don't resolve the 7th properly.)

Best of luck!

This may seem brutal and tedious. But seriously, this is how I learned all my composition stuff—from Ichigo's. I know a lot of heart and soul goes into writing music, and it may seem like people are being jerks, but that's because you clearly have talent; you just need some guidance.

Ok, I'll try to see what I can find online to learn chorale composition and post some more practices :P

That's a perfectly fine suffice. I can even give you some examples and have you post them back on here.

Just like Alfonso said, he learned a lot of this stuff here. I, too, learned a lot about composition from Ichigo's, and so a lot of us beginner's from years ago are now here to help. :)

Oops, I picked a bad one. Not a bad exercise for you, but I was going to show you the Bach version in comparison. Problem is, he breaks all kinds of rules himself:
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What a nasty tenor part...

If you think these are working for you, here's another. I'm taking these from "Music in Theory and Practice 8th ed. Volume I," but they took them from Bach in the first place, so I'm not too worried.
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@Emerald, the only rule that he breaks, that really counts, is the overlap of the Alto and the Soprano. The range of the Tenor is a stretch for traditional rules, in many standard chorale music, Tenors will reach up to a C.

Ok I found a site and I was hoping y'all could correct my exercises:

I'm supposed to write some Cantus Firmus in the Ionian, Dorian, Prygian, Lydian, Mixolydian and Aolean Modes
http://chordspectrum.freezoka.net/files/Exercise%201%20-%20Cantus%20Firmus.pdf

I don't think I broke any rules but I'm trying to learn to I need correction :sweat:

I'm not sure but the cantus firmus doesn't have to all be the same not length does it? If so I don't get why.

@Mazeppa: Are they doing falsetto, then? Otherwise that's insane on the composer's part. The highest I've ever seen in choir is an A. But yeah, I guess he only breaks one rule.

@kentaku_sama: Well, for one thing, any time you have a skip (interval greater than a second), you're supposed to go stepwise in the other direction. And I think the notes generally are all the same length, to make things simpler when you start sticking counterpoint over it. Good job with the wave shape, though, that's what you're looking for.