Hey guys, I haven't been on here in a LONG time. Glad to be back and I wanted to tell you guys about my new Manga I'm starting called "LOOT" Unlike the last project, this manga is fleshed out, great cast of characters and actually has a purpose and direction. The names are also better and a tad easier to pronounce. ^^ Here's a synopsis:

Liszt Escott has lived the last 7 years of his life on his own as a street kid with a unique ability to steal things. By taking everything he has, Liszt has managed to stay independent while the rest of the country has fallen to depend on the corporate industry for everything. But Liszt doesn't just take Tv's, Computers or Candy, he has the power to take people's abilities, personalities and positions by warping spatial physics. He does everything when he wants, how he wants until he is caught by a company called "Toner". They offer him a position to use his talent to become various people at a company called "Relisma Tech" to steal information and preform various tasks undercover. What will happen when Liszt suddenly gets on the inside of the corporate mess that's ruled Rime for the last 25 years.

I have the entire first arc sketched out but I didn't want to reveal this to you right now. ;) I've also started writing the 2nd arc as well. I suck at writing synopsis.

Here's a background synopsis:

For the last 25 years, the people of Rime have depended on one thing, the industry. Now the country is ruled by the companies who take advantage of people and make as much money as they can at any cost.

This is not an apocalypse, it's just a country where you can't trust the government or the industry at all. It's also fairly futuristic but not completely. It'd be like if we were in the year 2025 here so there are various futuristic things but some stuff is kinda normal. It's also a fictional world. The story also will have a fair amount of Gag elements such as puns, ridiculous plot elements, and anthro and personified characters such as cats, frogs, cup cakes, ect... But it does have a serious plot nonetheless. I've already got a character named Amun who is a Cat Anthro for the 2nd arc and a business Frog who heads a food company called SOLKA.

Characters:

Liszt Escott - 17 year old street kid who is a bleeder meaning he can move outside spatial boundries. 4th dimension ect...
Torrah Burns - 21 year old head secretary at Relisma Tech who helps Liszt. She actually has a power which I won't reveal at the moment.
Seijren Nakomorph (Nak) - A Fiery 18 year old who wants to weaken the industry's power. He is an Inciter which means he controls wave lengths (light, sound ect...)

Note: Liszt is NOT like a typical shonen character. He doesn't outwardly express his emotions of warmth and is often self centered. I didn't want a shonen character that was too nice. He also wavers in loyalty which creates plot tension in the story.

Tell me what you think. I may have pics up soon. I don't know when I'll be ready to start but it'll be a while but I imagine sometime in the summer this year. You'll notice that I recycled some ideas from my previous project like augmenters.

I've seen you posting these comic ideas on here for like five years now, but I've yet to see one comic page from you. My serious advice to you is to *sit down and draw something!* Everyone has ideas - they don't matter at all unless you make something! You say you might start in the Summer...why not now? Spend a half an hour a day drawing. You'll see results soon enough!
I'm looking forward to seeing some of your work!

With all honesty, I haven't see anything unique about your storyline because you put everything that might be interesting as something you don't want to disclose. All I got from it was a guy with special powers is trying to bring down a big corporation that dominated the world. I do understand that a public forum might not be a place you would want to disclose everything regarding your plots and twists but unless you reveal them, we won't know what makes your story truly unique.

There is also many holes with your description that would make your story very boring unless resolved.

For instance, his abilities. The ability to steal abilities alone makes the character nearly invincible. On top of this, you gave him shapeshift, bend reality, teleportation, and time travel (4th dimension is time), he becomes a little bit too over powered. Remember that the villain is equally as important as the hero. With all these powers, what kind of villains would he have to face in order to make the story interesting? This was why Peter from heroes and superman both had to lose their powers. They couldn't come up with enough villains that gave them hardship.

Thats my 2 cents. Good luck!

For instance, his abilities. The ability to steal abilities alone makes the character nearly invincible. On top of this, you gave him shapeshift, bend reality, teleportation, and time travel (4th dimension is time), he becomes a little bit too over powered. Remember that the villain is equally as important as the hero. With all these powers, what kind of villains would he have to face in order to make the story interesting? This was why Peter from heroes and superman both had to lose their powers. They couldn't come up with enough villains that gave them hardship.

Oh no, this guy is not like that! It's just my lousy description writing abilities. Nope, I could care less about what theories are out there but in my story, Time is not a spatial dimension but something else entirely. He doesn't control time. This guy specifically has the ability to manipulate space but he is very limited in doing so and it's not like Hiro from heroes either at all. He warps space as if it's a fabric. He can move between reality allowing him to temporarily be other people BUT it's very difficult for him to do so. It's sort of like hit and miss. It's hard for him to control as well as for me to explain really haha. The story is NOT easy. He runs into quite alot of problems that deal with his personality and mental issues more than physical. For example, he often is shifty in the way he behaves as he can't decide on whose side to take.

HE CAN NOT SHAPE SHIFT, when I said become other people. I meant he could become their position in life temporarily sort of like swapping realities. But again, this is something he can't for very long. Another thing, is that the story is NOT about a guy trying to take down a big corporation either.

One unique thing about my story is that the characters live in a not so good government ruled by the industry BUT this is the setting NOT THE PLOT! This manga isn't about them taking down the government.



I've seen you posting these comic ideas on here for like five years now, but I've yet to see one comic page from you. My serious advice to you is to *sit down and draw something!* Everyone has ideas - they don't matter at all unless you make something! You say you might start in the Summer...why not now? Spend a half an hour a day drawing. You'll see results soon enough!
I'm looking forward to seeing some of your work!

The thing is, 5 years ago I sucked at drawing. I've been in a drawing course for a good while now and I'm learning muscles and surface anatomy right now but I'm going to draw something soon!

The thing is, 5 years ago I sucked at drawing. I've been in a drawing course for a good while now and I'm learning muscles and surface anatomy right now but I'm going to draw something soon!

Still, there are plenty of panels made where the artist doesn't have the artistic side ironed out like people think it needs to be, but they still manage to get something out the door. What you need is a source of initiative rather than talent / practice. Just do something comic-like. Flex your muscles a bit and post up some concept art or run some actual dialogue / scripts across with others; SOMETHING other than grand plots.

Oh ok like dialogue or rough concepts, I'll post something soon!

Well, I haven't been able to draw anything yet but here's a rough script I wrote of the first scene of chapter 001.


An old lady can't pay a required fee

The NOLO grocery, one of the only grocery stores in the Minos section.

A Hand Grabbing some food

Mrs. Cleara

OH yes, I think this will be fine...


Welt

This is gonna be cool having everyone together like this.

MRS. CLEARA

Yes, Welt, I uh... What was I doing again?


Welt

Getting food for the party.


MRS. CLEARA

Oh yes! Silly brain gone to mush... Hee hee


WELT

Mr Jelly's gonna love this, a nice ham with Looz noodles and Coffee beans. MMM,


g

MRS. CLEARA

I think we have enough besides, I only have 80 Ril to spend.

Cashier

Sup Mam, that everything?

Old lady

MRS. CLEARA

Oh yes... I think so

Woman shows expression of confusion looking at computer

MRS. CLEARA

Is something wrong?

CASHIER

Food Tax... Uh yeah, you spend 80 Ril all on Food so you owe 15 more Ril...

MRS. CLEARA

Oh no... I don't have but 80 Ril, dear you can let this go can't you?

CASHIER

I'm sorry Mam, I can't do anything. I'm strictly regulated on this job.

MRS. CLEARA

You've gotta be kidding me, I didn't put up with this nonsense when I was your age!

CASHIER

Mam please, just pay the fee or return some of items you've bought.

MRS. CLEARA

Come on, Welt, I guess we'll put back the Cans of salmon...

welt

What?! No! They can't get away with this!

MRS. CLEARA

Yes they can, and they have for 20 years. I'm sorry but I don't want to cause a problem.

Welt(to cashier)

You're stupid woman! My grandma does her best and you can't even give her some stupid food without charging her a fee! Stuff cost enough as it is! You're a sour creep!

CASHIER

Kid, listen to your grandma, your gonna cause a huge problem if you don't be quiet!

WELT

Yeah, what're you gonna do? Arrest us?

CASHIER

I'm not the one you should be worried about!

A more sophisticated, young, better dressed woman comes from behind the counter.

overseer

What's the problem here?

CASHIER

Oh no...

OVERSEER

Yehma, are these people causing a problem?

CASHIER

no... everything's fine

OVERSEER

I THINK I'LL BE THE JUDGE OF THAT! What is the issue here?

MRS. CLEARA

I'm sorry, my grandson is misbehaving a bit.

OVERSEER

Hmm, 78.5 Ril on food, that's a 15 Ril fee.

MRS. CLEARA

I know but I don't have the money, I was going to return an item...

WELT

NO! WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING! We have our rights!

OVERSEER

Oh so a little freedom fighter huh? Well kid, your rights don't include bad mouthing civil officers.

MRS. CLEARA

Welt please! Let's just put the Salmon back and go.

WELT

No, she's gonna listen to us. We're not paying anything!

OVERSEER

That's it, you're under arrest.

MRS. CLEARA

no... no...

Liszt steps up to the counter.

liszt

You can't arrest them...

OVERSEER

Huh? What do you want?

LISZT

You can't arrest them

OVERSEER

Oh really? Why is that?

LISZT

Because, arguing with a woman with a flat chest isn't against the law.

OVERSEER

You've got some nerve, I could have you arrested...

liszt

No, you can't... See here, the rules in the Red pages say that an arrest can only be made for an offence that is publicly anarchic. The best you could do is give them a red X.

OVERSEER

You don't have the athority to tell me what to do. I think I'll arrest you as well...

LISZT

I'd like to see you try...

OVERSEER

Hook him up!

Two civil officers grab liszt.

MRS. CLEARA

Come on, Welt, let's go while they're distracted..l

OVERSEER

Where do you think you're going!

Liszt walks through reality and swaps places with the woman

OVERSEER

HUH?! What's going on?

LISzt

Did it work? Both of you, I think the woman and her grandson should be let go.

OVERSEER

How did I get here?!

LISZT

DO IT! LET them ggggoo... foawf

Liszt looses control of swap and him and the woman are now side by side being held by the police

LISzt

Oh crap!

OVERSEER

Why are you holding me?!

LISZT

Wow, now that I take a closer look, you're dumber looking than I thought.

OVERSEER

You delinquent!

Liszt is thrown in a cell with the old woman and her grandson, Welt.

OVERSEER

I don't know how you managed that little trick but now you're going to pris... WHAT!!!!???

Liszt is not in the cell.

OVERSEER

Where the heck did he go? Find him!

END SCENE






Basically think of the world as sort of like times when they had tax collectors and alot of injustice. This is extremely rough but I just wanted to post something to show you guys that I am working on it. I'd love any ideas anyone had on fixing it. It seems kind of rushed to me.

You haven't had a few hours available over the last month?
I don't think you have the drive to make this, honestly...you haven't had time to draw one comic page in like three years, apparently. = \

And since when is sales tax unjust? You're going to need a bigger crime against humanity than that to make us care about Welt. Right now, all I thought was "wow, what a dumbass. He's going to get his grandmother arrested over a can of salmon? He's demanding that a simple cashier steal from the store he works at to give it to Welt? I hope this kid gets his ass kicked!"

On top of that, I think Lizst's power is too vague to make for a good story. This "sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't" stuff is going to kill any sense of suspense. The viewer is going to just think "well, when he needs his power to work to save his life, obviously it's going to work to keep the story going." And they're going to be right.
Look at Death Note, Mirai Nikki, or Code Geass for examples of thriller stories starring characters with supernatural power. Those three did it right; even though the main characters had huge advantages over all the other characters in their stories, their powers still had very strict limits and countermeasures. Even though they had magic, we still constantly thought "holy shit, how is he going to get out of this mess?" And we cheered for them when they did something clever to get out of trouble.

With Liszt it's going to be all "oh, he's caught. Oh wait, lol, he'll just teleport out of his jail cell." and "oh my god, how is he going to save that kitten? Oh yeah, his magical powers are going to teleport it out of the tree."

The story won't be any good, unless you impose clear, strict rules on his power. Otherwise the plot is going to be a ridiculous string of deus ex machina, one of the worst plot devices you can use. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DeusExMachina)

Liszt does seem likeable enough from this short scene though, which is good.
You just need to decide how his powers are going to be limited, and make the rules very clear to the audience early on.
And you need to start drawing. XP

Well, I haven't been able to draw anything yet but here's a rough script I wrote of the first scene of chapter 001.

Progress!



An old lady can't pay a required fee

The NOLO grocery, one of the only grocery stores in the Minos section.

A Hand Grabbing some food

... This lacks impact, imagination, and realism. NOLO, Minos, and an unidentified fee. Too many questions for a one-liner regarding a background. Why not simplify it with something like : "Over the past month, Mrs. Cleara has be on the run. Ever since she <reason_here>, the many Relisma Tech SPs have been on high alert in search for her, with warrents out for her arrest getting broadcast over the nation." and then let your graphics signify her actions in the grocery mart. You want to draw a reader in rather than dull a read



Mrs. Cleara

OH yes, I think this will be fine...


Welt

This is gonna be cool having everyone together like this.

MRS. CLEARA

Yes, Welt, I uh... What was I doing again?


Welt

Getting food for the party.


MRS. CLEARA

Oh yes! Silly brain gone to mush... Hee hee


WELT

Mr Jelly's gonna love this, a nice ham with Looz noodles and Coffee beans. MMM,


What the hell am I reading? I'm bored with the grocery store. You're trying to geocraft a bit too much. Stick to real-world things until you have something out of the ordinary come into play. At least then readers can relate to what's going on.




MRS. CLEARA

I think we have enough besides, I only have 80 Ril to spend.

Cashier

Sup Mam, that everything?

Old lady

MRS. CLEARA

Oh yes... I think so

Woman shows expression of confusion looking at computer

MRS. CLEARA

Is something wrong?

CASHIER

Food Tax... Uh yeah, you spend 80 Ril all on Food so you owe 15 more Ril...

MRS. CLEARA

Oh no... I don't have but 80 Ril, dear you can let this go can't you?

CASHIER

I'm sorry Mam, I can't do anything. I'm strictly regulated on this job.

MRS. CLEARA

You've gotta be kidding me, I didn't put up with this nonsense when I was your age!

It was here that I stopped reading my first time through. This is going nowhere fast, and there isn't anything interesting going on other than a lady having a debit crisis.




CASHIER

Mam please, just pay the fee or return some of items you've bought.

MRS. CLEARA

Come on, Welt, I guess we'll put back the Cans of salmon...

welt

What?! No! They can't get away with this!

MRS. CLEARA

Yes they can, and they have for 20 years. I'm sorry but I don't want to cause a problem.

Welt(to cashier)

You're stupid woman! My grandma does her best and you can't even give her some stupid food without charging her a fee! Stuff cost enough as it is! You're a sour creep!

CASHIER

Kid, listen to your grandma, your gonna cause a huge problem if you don't be quiet!

WELT

Yeah, what're you gonna do? Arrest us?

CASHIER

I'm not the one you should be worried about!

A more sophisticated, young, better dressed woman comes from behind the counter.


Gasp! Build up!



overseer

What's the problem here?

CASHIER

Oh no...

OVERSEER

Yehma, are these people causing a problem?

CASHIER

no... everything's fine

OVERSEER

I THINK I'LL BE THE JUDGE OF THAT! What is the issue here?

Melodrama. It's like a cancer that can't go away.



MRS. CLEARA

I'm sorry, my grandson is misbehaving a bit.

OVERSEER

Hmm, 78.5 Ril on food, that's a 15 Ril fee.

MRS. CLEARA

I know but I don't have the money, I was going to return an item...

WELT

NO! WE'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING! We have our rights!

OVERSEER

Oh so a little freedom fighter huh? Well kid, your rights don't include bad mouthing civil officers.

MRS. CLEARA

Welt please! Let's just put the Salmon back and go.

WELT

No, she's gonna listen to us. We're not paying anything!

You have not given us a reason for Welt to act this way. There's no personality background that truly supports this. All of your characters are flat, making no suspense to the dialogue that's presently being had. It's obvious that you want tension to be there, but there's nothing to drive that tension into the reader's impression of the story this far.



OVERSEER

That's it, you're under arrest.

MRS. CLEARA

no... no...

Liszt steps up to the counter.

liszt

You can't arrest them...

OVERSEER

Huh? What do you want?

LISZT

You can't arrest them

OVERSEER

Oh really? Why is that?

LISZT

Because, arguing with a woman with a flat chest isn't against the law.

I thought you didn't want to be shonen with this? Jokes about the bust is straight out of the shonen dialogue book. Also, if Liszt is to be a dark and self-centered of a character as you described above, this made him sound playful and cheery.



OVERSEER

You've got some nerve, I could have you arrested...

liszt

No, you can't... See here, the rules in the Red pages say that an arrest can only be made for an offence that is publicly anarchic. The best you could do is give them a red X.

OVERSEER

You don't have the athority to tell me what to do. I think I'll arrest you as well...

Authority, unless athority is something mystical. Also, you're geocrafting again for no reason. What's the significance of a red x. Also, you're using weird language within the argument. It sounds like a segment out of US Congress, which, mind you, is boring to 70% of US Citizens and 100% of everyone else.



LISZT

I'd like to see you try...

OVERSEER

Hook him up!

Two civil officers grab liszt.

MRS. CLEARA

Come on, Welt, let's go while they're distracted..l

OVERSEER

Where do you think you're going!

Liszt walks through reality and swaps places with the woman

That's it? Liszt walks through reality? I actually laughed at how bad that one is. I think you need some time spent with a reverse dictionary and a creative writing book to help you in presenting imagery. This could have been so much better.



OVERSEER

HUH?! What's going on?

LISzt

Did it work? Both of you, I think the woman and her grandson should be let go.

OVERSEER

How did I get here?!

LISZT

DO IT! LET them ggggoo... foawf

Liszt looses control of swap and him and the woman are now side by side being held by the police

LISzt

Oh crap!

OVERSEER

Why are you holding me?!

LISZT

Wow, now that I take a closer look, you're dumber looking than I thought.

OVERSEER

You delinquent!

Liszt is thrown in a cell with the old woman and her grandson, Welt.

OVERSEER

I don't know how you managed that little trick but now you're going to pris... WHAT!!!!???

Liszt is not in the cell.

OVERSEER

Where the heck did he go? Find him!

END SCENE

...

I certainly hope you have some incredible drawing skills to make the panels interesting, because this writing is not. There's nothing exciting about it. You created a demigod like character that randomly jumps in to a random grocery store where someone randomly cannot pay for food, which randomly gets audited by the government for some tax rule which is randomly described, with random words that mean something to the government system yet is so corrupt that individuals randomly fight against said government, and randomly uses said powers to help said individuals. I mean, let's review what was said as a synopsis here:

1. Out shopping for a party.
2. Checkout without enough money.
3. Mystic being arrests them for being short on change
4. A wild slider has appeared!
5. Mystic being throws Great Ball.
6. Oh drat, Slider broke free!
7. Slider ran away.

These are all of the major points of the above dialogue. Each one of these points should have some significance in regards to what you're trying to convey, but they instead feel like small pieces to a puzzle composed of TV Snow. There is nothing compelling the reader to continue onward. There was no suspense, there wasn't anything memorable, and, most of all, there was no connection to any of the events that happened. What we have here is brainstorming. You haven't thought out the world, society, and the antithesis government yet. Here's a thought for you: Does Liszt have a family? Children? What color is Liszt's hair? Does the Overseer wear a gown, or a suit? How does "walking" through reality feel / look? Why is it that the government is bad? If government was a dog, what breed would it be?

Each word you use is important, as it paints a picture to your reader. Even if you have a panel to support your writing, your plot still must be entertaining. Manga's such as One Piece, Beserk, even Card Captor Sakura are all long-run not because of their art, but because of how the art emphasises the story; it provides clarity. However, if the story wasn't there, then it would simply resolve to panel art that is essentially meaningless.


Is this post harsh? Yes, but you have a lot of work to do. I have a feeling that you haven't ever read a book or did any research about sliders before, so that's a good place to start. After that, I'd do some free writes that involve battles with sliders. After a few times of doing that, do some writing to frame one of the free write battles to fill in the gaps that it leaves open. If you wish to branch away from one fight in the middle to another, go ahead.

Thank you M for saying pretty much everything that I would have said and more. Seriously, 18.75% sales tax is nothing. In fact, there are MANY countries with sales tax of 20%. France income tax goes up as high as 75%. If I didn't know better, I would had thought liszt was the antagonist from reading this.

Also, your Liszt has a totally different personallity than what I had imagined from your previous description. He feels more like Robin Hood with a bit more hatred than the cool dark type.

Ok look, that script was a run though, it wasn't good. I forgot to mention I posted it to post it. And by the way, it's not fair for you to say "You don't think I have the will power" I have a ridiculous school junk and I just got frustrated a while back because of my drawing skills and story. Before, I virtually had no story at all but NOW I DO. I have a sketchbook full of anatomy drawings of hands, arms, chest, faces, eyes heads. I could post some but they're so messy.

May'be y'all are just tired because I posted something that made it look like you were gonna get to read something soon but I wasn't ready then but I am now. Back then, I wanted to do a manga. But now I have characters and a story. Yes, that was garbage I wrote for fun at 12:00 in the morning to see if it worked and I figured out alot of problems I'm going to fix.

One more thing, about the tax. ITS NOT A FREAKIN SALES TAX. I didn't mention it, but a food tax is a tax placed on purchases of food over a certain amount of money.
This tax is not sales tax, there is also sales tax and you have to understand the back story which I did no job of explaining.

I'll let you guys know when I get more but I just don't like being told that I can't do something because I'm a few years late, big deal, some people might start an idea and not see it for 10 years. I'm going to start drawing the actual manga panels this year, I'm sure of it.

Liszt was off character in that I was just bored. I've been working on an illustration of Liszt everyday for a week and it's almost finished but it's got a heck of alot of detail.
I worked on it for almost 4 hours this morning.

Cool thing is, if I can pull this off, It'd really be special because most amateur manga's online are well, garbage, I haven't seen but may'be one that I thought was really good art wise. Btw, Liszt is not a cool dark type character nor a goofy shonen character either. He's supposed to be very intellegent, a tad nerdy at times, bitter at the past, clever and clumsy.

Ok look, that script was a run though, it wasn't good. I forgot to mention I posted it to post it. And by the way, it's not fair for you to say "You don't think I have the will power" I have a ridiculous school junk and I just got frustrated a while back because of my drawing skills and story. Before, I virtually had no story at all but NOW I DO. I have a sketchbook full of anatomy drawings of hands, arms, chest, faces, eyes heads. I could post some but they're so messy.

May'be y'all are just tired because I posted something that made it look like you were gonna get to read something soon but I wasn't ready then but I am now. Back then, I wanted to do a manga. But now I have characters and a story. Yes, that was garbage I wrote for fun at 12:00 in the morning to see if it worked and I figured out alot of problems I'm going to fix.

But,


[...] Unlike the last project, this manga is fleshed out, great cast of characters and actually has a purpose and direction.

So maybe you're haven't really fleshed it out yet.

I can appreciate that you called our bet and actually acted to your goal. This is a sign that you're in the right mindset. However, there is an important thing to know about the web when attempting to do something: if you're making an announcement, and you want people to follow what you're doing, the followers will expect weekly updates of an almost finished product that will be released within the year. If you take longer than that, you might as well said nothing as people will stop following it and it will fall into a Cult-like area of appreciation. This is the equation that marketing teams take with video games and novels.

Also, you contradicted yourself with regard to how much time you have to work on this, unless the school junk has vanished or I misread your third sentence.


One more thing, about the tax. ITS NOT A FREAKIN SALES TAX. I didn't mention it, but a food tax is a tax placed on purchases of food over a certain amount of money.
This tax is not sales tax, there is also sales tax and you have to understand the back story which I did no job of explaining.

Tax is tax, regardless of category; it just so happens that food tax is a sub-category of sales tax in the United States -- at least in Virginia it's 2.5% at checkout. Tax is boring unless there's something other than assets associated to it; like what they did with In Time, where they sell part of their remaining life as currency. I'd recommend a more action or dramatic raison d'être for the corruption. The tax can be one component, but there needs to be a much darker, much stronger piece to get the reader engaged in the story. This equation is used in just about every Studio Ghibli film where the original conflict is only a very small vein off of the real problem.


I'll let you guys know when I get more but I just don't like being told that I can't do something because I'm a few years late, big deal, some people might start an idea and not see it for 10 years. I'm going to start drawing the actual manga panels this year, I'm sure of it.

Another thing that has always been ignored and lied to people about when it comes to creativity is the phrase "if you put your mind to it, you can do it" (ref. hongkiat). After living through crap, you eventually will learn that there are limits that cannot be surpassed and points where you either use what you have and take it for what its worth, or give up. Lots will tell you that this statement is crap, but I've personally learned that it is the second most true thing in life, next to taxes. I'm glad that you've progressed and actually generated some content rather than act like a sales rep from E3 trying to get people hyped about rendered screens, but what you posted was critically reviewed for your own benefit. Take it for what it's worth.



Liszt was off character in that I was just bored. I've been working on an illustration of Liszt everyday for a week and it's almost finished but it's got a heck of alot of detail.
I worked on it for almost 4 hours this morning.

As being critical still, this shows that you haven't fully developed Liszt's character, either from the earlier description, or from what you have in your mind now. You need to get in their skin. The author of Seikai no Senki (Hiroyuki Morioka) said that there were times when fans asked why the female protagonist Lafiel acted in a certain way and his response was "I don't know, but I knew that's how she would react". If your characters are real to you, then you know how they would act without having to actively think about it.


Cool thing is, if I can pull this off, It'd really be special because most amateur manga's online are well, garbage, I haven't seen but may'be one that I thought was really good art wise. Btw, Liszt is not a cool dark type character nor a goofy shonen character either. He's supposed to be very intellegent, a tad nerdy at times, bitter at the past, clever and clumsy.

Being unique isn't enough. Charisma, evangelism, and identity is what makes it in the world today.

If you haven't gotten the message by now, I'm trying to say that you /should not/ try to describe your characters. Let the characters describe themselves though the writing and artwork, otherwise you're locking them down to a stereotype and people will find them as flat :).

Consider the following excerpt from a character PorscheGTIII and I were using a while back. Note, I have left off the delectable backstory headings that illustrate Sue's past, because I have yet to give up on Reflect! However, it's worth the effort to write the character's childhood and backup reasoning to their own special traits as it makes things fit better in a scenario.


Name: Susannah Verstivschi
Sex : Female
DOB : July 5

Height : 5' 7"
Weight : 133 lb
Blood Type : O- rh+

Skin Complexion : Fair
Build: Small-Medium Frame
Shape: Feminine

Eye Color : Hazel
Hair Color : Brown

Typical Dress : Chemise, Scarf, Blouse, Denim Skirt
Hair Length : Shoulder Length

Relation to Protagonist: Exchange Student in Class from Moldova

Descriptive Phrase:
Wonder and desire only build sin.

Personality Traits:
* Agreeableness - a tendency to be compassionate and cooperative rather
than suspicious and antagonistic towards others.
* Tender-mindedness
* Self Doubting
* Trusting
* Socially Bold
* Rule-Conscious
* Affected by Feelings
* Attentive to Others

Brief Background:
Sue, as she likes to be called, was raised in a small town in Moldova. As a
child, she would spend time with her mother who would always be lending a
help to her neighbors. Because she was always busy helping others, things
around the family's house would be neglected and fights would sometimes
ensue between her mother and father who is a highly respected business man.
She is in America in a study abroad program.

Most important thing and why:
Her friends and family
She was told from childhood to honor relationships above everything.

Most embarrassing thing and why:
Speaking
English is not her native language, so sometimes she can say one thing
in English but meant something totally different.

Worst choice ever made and why:
Interfering with a fight
She once tried to interfere when her mother and father were fighting
and she was accidently was pushed over a second story banister and was
hospitalized for a while.

Most hated thing and why:
Loud voices and Arguments
When people raise their voice and are on bad terms with each other.
This reminds her of the times her parents would fight.

Favorite things:
* Red Hair Ribbon
* Taking Walks
* Social Drinking

Hated things:
* Scary Movies
* Disrespecting Women
* Being Excluded

---+ Backstory
snip

vim: ffs=dos:spell:ai:ts=2:sw=2

Notice how little is actually blatantly said about the character, and instead serves a bit more towards how Sue is as an individual? Also, it formatted as if it were told from her perspective as a datasheet about "this is who you are"; much like how Match.com does. You can kinda see how she fits the role of a fallen leader, as is the overtone of who she's meant to ultimately be, but nothing blazingly comes out and says this. By doing it this way you can build an actual individual whom lives and breathes, not a character that fits into a certain rail, allowing for wider dynamics and reactions.

Wow M, that really opened my eyes to how to really go about creating good interesting characters. I think my problem is that I was trying to make liszt act a certain way to fit my story because the thing is, right now, I'm more interested in what's going to happen later, beginnings are hard to write for me but I'll keep you posted.
I'm bad with taking criticism, I know it.

And by the way, it's not fair for you to say "You don't think I have the will power"
My opinion is only based on what I've seen. If you don't like my opinion, then post some artwork to change it. "They're not good enough" isn't much of an excuse, since this is an art forum, anyway. We can critique you on your drawings too, you know!

Yeah sure, I'm nearly finished with one but I gotta go to staples to have it scanned cuz my stupid scanner only fits 8 1/2 x 11 paper and I'm using slightly bigger paper.
But I photographed it to show you guys what Liszt looks like so far.

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/9908/img0810bg.jpg

You'll notice how there is lightning where he breaks space. This is a concept I thought of to make it easier on the reader to realize he's done this.
When liszt breaks space it creates friction and causes electrical waves to be produced.

This picture is not finished yet, that's why it's still a bit messy and there are no textures in the clothes yet

Nice artstyle. It looks original, but still appealing. =)
And that one picture is a better representation of Liszt's character than all of your writing so far. X'D
Post more art! \o/

In a higher resolution, hopefully. It's a little hard to see the details when it's so small.

Wow I wasn't expecting that high of a quality picture! You have most definitely improved! Keep it up! :D

Thank you, I hope to keep improving! It's like once you learn how to correctly learn to draw figures you have to re learn how to apply your own style to it.

I can see how that would be challenging,but at least its a fun challenge. :D

Personality:
Liszt is acts like an overly open guy on the surface but is bitter at the past and has many self centered motives. He has a keen desire to be loved by individuals not crowds. He wants to be understood and he very much so wants to understand other people. Liszt tries to learn EVERYTHING down to the last detail about people he meets and can become obsessed with this out of his desire to be loved. He feels like if he can find what makes people tick, he can become anyone he wants and thus be loved by everyone. This pursues his choices to be almost completely directed towards this goal. He will do nearly anything to achieve being loved and having purpose and doesn’t have much consciousness of right and wrong at the series start.. Liszt talks personally and openly to everyone unless he is acting(pretending to be another person). He loves people, not rules and group oriented legislation and therefore doesn’t follow the law or rules. His Bleeding ability has excited this as well because Liszt feels that since he doesn’t have to abide by the laws of physics, why should he abide by the laws of society. He also desires to be loyal to people, the problem is that Liszt becomes attached to people wanting to follow them both but when they go separate directions in their decisions he feels as if he’s being pulled apart. Thus The scariest thing for Liszt is having two people he loves being enemies of each other. Unlike most main stream manga characters, he isn't the heroic type. He often puts himself in front of others and under no circumstance would risk his life for someone else. At first anyway.

Good Traits: Friendly, Intelligent, observant, lovable, problem solving,
Neutral Traits: Materialistic, slightly nerdy,
Bad Traits: Clumsy, Easily Trusting, Split-loyalty, self-cowardly, Law Breaker

I think Liszt is becoming very real to me. :heh:
No more drawings yet, I haven't had the chance.

Nice

Liszt. I like that. It seems to me this character is somewhat of a philosopher.

It seems to me this character is somewhat of a philosopher.

Yeah, pretty much.

So this is what I have for my plot:

The Theme is: Liszt, the boy who can bend the laws of reality and space, works as a mole(spy) at a Candy Company that is producing sweets containing illegal military technology.

The way the government works, I thought that this company could produce weapons that caused a sort of plague that they also produced an antidote with another fake company that would give them loads of money. The way politics work in LOOT is that because the country is virtually controlled by multiple companies with no real central authority, the more money you have, the more power you gain. Basically the other companies make revenue which gives the control, but, the smaller companies usually get loans and help from the other larger companies that are making far more money and then they make even more cash off of the weaker companies.

Do you think the company making sweets with something that makes people horribly sick and then an antidote is cliche?

Because of his sister helping with this scheme, he is torn and acts shifty between his sister who wants this and his friend, Torrah.

Ok, I haven't forgotten about LOOT but I took a while to work on the story, I ain't the best at coming up with stories and I want it to be as good as it can be.
But I made a sample cover of a chapter called "The Almighty Dollar" I think it looks pretty legit. This was done with that pic I posted a month ago, same image no furthur work done to it. I didn't rescan it. Which means, what you see there is all pencil and photoshop making it look like ink. Hatching was done in PS with my horrible laptop track pad, ugh, worth it but I NEED a tablet if I'm gonna keep doing this. XD

15034

This one looks alot better:
http://k9assassin.deviantart.com/art/The-Almighty-Dollar-LOOT-Chapter-06-Cover-369683791?ga_submit_new=10%253A1367702866&ga_type=edit&ga_changes=1&ga_recent=1

Whoa... is that like his third hand or something?

AND YES. you need a tablet.

Whoa... is that like his third hand or something?
Nah, he's bending space that's why you can see his hand going in and out of some form of other dimension.

AND YES. you need a tablet.
I do think it turned out pretty dang well with a mouse but I think I'd get tendinitis if I kept using a mouse for a whole manga!

I also forgot to draw his Encryptor tattoo XD

Yes... tablet will definitely help you sort out that tendinitis.... even then I think you might still feel it.

I think the hand is too similar to his regular hand. I think by giving more (different) characteristic to the hand you allow the viewers to really know when and what it looks like to bend space. Either his hand, or the portal, which the hand pops out of.

Illustratively speaking, the hand certainly catches my eyes first. Then I realized both of his hands. Then I look at his face. I must say you did a wonderful job with his hair. I could really feel that texture.

Thanks, Ander. I appreciate it! I actually plan on making this manga a REAL thing, I actually wanna publish but that's not the most important thing right now.

YES, that's an AWESOME idea, more than just drawing a hole, I could actually severely distort the perspective inside the hole and as it comes out, it becomes more normal looking. So it would look kinda stretched. I also think though that the lightning produces a neat effect. I also may eventually have him able to use the lightning by building up large amounts of electrostatic energy as he rips through space. Cuz he needs a weapon, which I haven't decided on yet. It could be a gun, but that's kinda boring and common. I don't want him to use a sword either, BLEACH to name one of many. I think I'll have to be really creative with the space bending thing.

Question about writing, I was wondering, isn't it more interesting and compelling to have villains that you feel slightly sorry for and for them to believe that what they want is morally correct even though it's not rather than people that are just pure evil, which r kinda stale. Though, you need a little bit of pure evil I guess.

Another thing is the whole publishing process, I don't know how it works. Will they publish a manga that is written per volume rather than having these insane deadlines?

Here's my main cast of characters so far with a Tiny fraction of what they're like

Liszt Escott - The Scientist/Visionary - Main Character
Torrah Burns - The Artist/Dare Devil - Hyperactive Female character (She snowboards!)
Seijren Nakol ( nickname: Nak ) - The Musician/Tough Guy
Reila Tool - The Annoying One/Dreamer
Lyria Escott - The Organizer/Lives for new expiriences Liszt's Sister
Rott Burns - The business man/computer guy - The bad guy for the first arc Torrah's Uncle

How do you like the names? I think they're pretty cool and not too difficult to pronounce, I guess, then again, I have a big background with exposure to all sort of languages as well as an interest in phonology.

Question about writing, I was wondering, isn't it more interesting and compelling to have villains that you feel slightly sorry for and for them to believe that what they want is morally correct even though it's not rather than people that are just pure evil, which r kinda stale. Though, you need a little bit of pure evil I guess.

This depends upon the villain and how you construct them. Lots of people make villains human by filling in their backstory with tragic events (think of how Psycho portrayed Bates). Others try to make the villain the "ultimate evil". A good equation is actually to mix the two. Have a villain that appears evil with the exception of something very slight, and then, in the future if you want to, you can fill in that backstory with something to humanize them and make it so that people can relate to them.

It is important to remember not to make things absolute in the story. Characters that are "perfect" in any aspect becomes toxic to a reader. For instance, in Dragon Ball Goku almost always saves the day by invoking some hidden power within him that was pretty much granted to him by events. There's no real growth in that, and the reader recognizes this pattern and becomes bored with the story. Even their own writers saw this and in Dragon Ball Z attempted to inject the Z fighters to add diversity. However, they still had "ultimate evil" villains, and "turned good" villains.

Marvel actually does the inverse of this equation: they create heroes with villain-like flaws to make people see them as "imperfect".

Above all of this, it's really about how much effort you wish to put into the character's development. I have never seen someone dislike a character that's been fully fleshed out over a character that has a clear raison d'être and modus operandi but nothing to support these two characteristics.


Another thing is the whole publishing process, I don't know how it works. Will they publish a manga that is written per volume rather than having these insane deadlines?

You will need to find an editor (for a try or quit evaluation) and then submit a pilot to a publishing company. They'll send you a letter of response if they want to publish your work; then you'll see the typical deadline hell (most publishers want at least a chapter per interval (magazine intervals are usually 1-2 weeks if they're a serializing your work). After one volume has been done, then the chapter can be evaluated for volume publication (tankoubans).

Now, that was the old way. The new way is to be your own publisher, where you get a service from a company like Amazon and have them construct the final product. However, this way requires the most work, as you have to do your own marketing, evaluation, QC, and pricing.



Here's my main cast of characters so far with a Tiny fraction of what they're like

Liszt Escott - The Scientist/Visionary - Main Character
Torrah Burns - The Artist/Dare Devil - Hyperactive Female character (She snowboards!)
Seijren Nakol ( nickname: Nak ) - The Musician/Tough Guy
Reila Tool - The Annoying One/Dreamer
Lyria Escott - The Organizer/Lives for new expiriences Liszt's Sister
Rott Burns - The business man/computer guy - The bad guy for the first arc Torrah's Uncle

How do you like the names? I think they're pretty cool and not too difficult to pronounce, I guess, then again, I have a big background with exposure to all sort of languages as well as an interest in phonology.

Let's see what the names really mean when put together...

Liszt Escott - Adept Hut of the Stream
Torrah Burns - Instruction of the Burned
Seijren Nakol - Lawful Lilly of the People's Victory
Reila Tool - Beautiful Birth of Utility
Lyria Escott - Lyre Hut of the Stream
Rott Burns - Decay of the Burned

My recommendation: Change Rott's name. Out of all of them, that one stuck out as not matching Also, there's a lot of cross-region names here (I see English, French, Hindu, Jew, and Japanese). If the story's not worldwide, I'd recommend keeping the origin of the names closer (geographically).

My recommendation: Change Rott's name. Out of all of them, that one stuck out as not matching Also, there's a lot of cross-region names here (I see English, French, Hindu, Jew, and Japanese). If the story's not worldwide, I'd recommend keeping the origin of the names closer (geographically).

I made up most of these names and I didn't like the other hungarian names which is where liszt comes from. btw, which one is japanese?
None of those names correspond with the Japanese sounds. Eh, I like cross-region names, I did it one purpose because I want characters with
a variety of sounds in their name. I don't like it where cultures like korean sound too similar. Kinda boring to me. As long as their fairly
pronouncable.

Yeah, I'll change rott's name

So the biggest thing my plot has got right now is that Liszt is torn between three goals. I wanted to make him almost pathetically
unable to pick a side when things are going crazy. So he rides the fence alot. Here's the way it goes down:

Toner wants to destroy Realisma tech which Lyria, Liszt's sister is part of. If he keeps working for Toner, he gets a job to
invent like he wants AND is guaranteed safety. If he turns against Toner for his sister who cares about him, he is guaranteed danger or death and will then
have no way of inventing because he will have no access to technology he can use. Now if that isn't complicated enough, Lyria is also Torrah's
antagonist who treats her like crap. Lyria basically is a creep around everyone except Liszt because she has bad experiences but Liszt reminds her of a happier time. Lyria also has an unstable personality condition. Torrah is with a group that helps people in need when the bad companies come knockin. Therefore, the company, TONER AND Lyria are against her.

Is this interesting or too complicated? I wanted to do something unique. Have a main character that is torn between several things making him neutral. Although eventually he will turn around probably. Can people root for a character like this?

I made up most of these names and I didn't like the other hungarian names which is where liszt comes from. btw, which one is japanese? None of those names correspond with the Japanese sounds. Eh, I like cross-region names, I did it one purpose because I want characters with a variety of sounds in their name. I don't like it where cultures like korean sound too similar. Kinda boring to me. As long as their fairly pronouncable.

Seijren Nakol. Seijren can be seen as a contraction off of Seijiren; hence the translation of name: Seiji - Law, Ren - Lilly. Also Torrah can be seen as a corruption of Toura (lit. from back), but it's more clearly seen for its Jewish roots.

I learned something new: I thought that the origin of Liszt was French.


So, about the theme...

I'm having difficulties drawing parallels to what you originally wrote when you started this thread to what you outlined above. It's definitely better from the 18.75% sales tax short story. It sounds like you're starting to go the route of Megacorp warfare, but the lack of details surrounding Toner and Realisma (weren't these the same corp in draft one?) is making me think of this as more of cubical warfare instead of cunning deliverance.

Is this interesting or too complicated? I wanted to do something unique. Have a main character that is torn between several things making him neutral. Although eventually he will turn around probably. Can people root for a character like this?
That depends on how good of a writer you are. =P
We'll never know till we see some decently finished chapters. A good writer can pull off almost anything, while a bad writer will fail miserably with even the simplest ideas. XD

Well I have started writing actual scenes now.


It sounds like you're starting to go the route of Megacorp warfare, but the lack of details surrounding Toner and Realisma (weren't these the same corp in draft one?) is making me think of this as more of cubical warfare instead of cunning deliverance.

Yeah, megacorp warfare sums it up. I guess I have to just write cuz I SUCK at explaining my plots. Suggestions for story would be appreciated.
I also added another character, Vest burns - Torrah's older brother, who was Lyria's boyfriend. Lyria was basically obsessed with vest before and after they dated it got worse. So when he broke up with her because of her unstable mental condition, she slowly went crazy. So now she basically wants to kill everyone he knows and loves such as Torrah. Btw, is torrah good or should I change it to Solera Burns, I liked it better but I dunno, I still haven't found a names as good as Liszt or her. So Lyria is basically insane. But it gets far worse as the story progresses.

Well I have started writing actual scenes now.
Awesome! Work hard at it. I'm sure it'll turn out pretty good. =)

I wrote some of the first chapter, here's the script:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzrl-iLY6DeEUGY4MG1aS0tGcU0/edit

The panels may change alot especially at the beginning because those scenes are kind of
hard to display in comics. Sorry, no action just yet but I assure you there will be plenty later.

Remember, Liszt is 17 and he has a bit of that apathetic attitude towards alot of things.

You should draw up a quick rough draft for this. Half of a comic is drawing, after all...
The script was okay, though, besides the jokes between the gamblers. "SHE'S PROBABLY TAKING A HUGE SHIT BEFORE MASTURBATING, LOL!" made me cringe. Even if guys were to make such a crass joke, they'd usually at least use a euphemism for it. = =;;

I'm curious about what your ten panels of Liszt building his invention are going to look like. If you do them well, they'll be a good intro, I think.

Overall, I think it was pretty good. I can see it being an entertaining comic. =)

Thanks man, yeah, I thought that other part was a bit obscene for the mood of the story. It needs serious revision but this will have to be done later. I want to get a few chapters going, then I'll think about sketching panel drafts because I need to have a more complete idea before I start drawing the actual comic.

I'll keep you posted, I've written quite a bit more of the first chapter so I'm fairly doing good. I'm just finally glad to be able to start actually doing the thing I've wanted to do for the last six years, creating my own manga with my own story.

Just finished writing chapter one, I'm very excited now because this was the start up chapter which is difficult to write. I'm sure it'll have to be changed some and pacing corrected but overall I feel like I'm in touch for the writing portion now. The drawing will be more difficult thought because I have to invent the appearance of alot of characters which I'm new to. Like I said, I've never gotten this far in making a manga before so I feel like there is going to be alot of frustration ahead but I finally feel like this manga is going to happen.

Oh yeah, well here you go! The unedited scripts for chapters one and Two. I personally feel chapter 2 was better but both need editing of course. But I'm going to wait until chapter 3 or 4 is written to start editing. But it is very useful to me if you guys can help me edit by telling me what you feel should be different. I warn you, the pacing in chapter 1 is a bit fast and sloppy but it's just the firsts so it can only get better. Enjoy

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzrl-iLY6DeEX3dUM0tqbjJXejg/edit - Loot Chapter 1 unedited
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bzrl-iLY6DeESHpVZUZZZDZwZVE/edit - Loot Chapter 2 Unedited

btw, Lyria is 18 and Liszt is 17. In this world, people can get higher payed jobs at younger ages.

I think the links were broken, try them now! :D