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Gnomish
June 2nd, 2004, 10:17 pm
Why is it so hard for me to find appropriate places for accidentals? :( they're so hard to use... most of my pieces are tonally centered around one key, then alter to either the minor or major of the same key, then go back at the end to the original key it started it. Why are accidentals hard to apply?

mariko
June 2nd, 2004, 10:21 pm
Most accidentals are from altered chords within a progression. For example, if the progression is I - IV - V7/V - V7 - I, you'll have an sharp 4 on V7/V serving as a leading tone to 5.

michael
June 2nd, 2004, 10:25 pm
Also, you have different scales with different altered notes, like in Jazz with blues chords. An easier example is the Melodic Minor scale, which has the 6th and 7th notes sharped when used as leading tones, and are normal minor (flat 6 and 7) when going down the scale. Accidentals are determined by the chords more than anything, or are used as chromatic alterations to fit the song.

Gnomish
June 2nd, 2004, 10:42 pm
Maybe it'd do me a bit of good to study chords and progression a bit. I'm self-teaching counterpoint right now and it's tough enough as it is.

Al
June 3rd, 2004, 12:56 am
If I think something sounds wrong, I add an accidental. Usually works for me! Just feel around on the piano; you're bound to hit what you're looking for. But sure, a good background of harmony helps and speeds up the process. Just remember that when you modulate to the new key, use the accidentals of that key (easier said than done).

By the way, mariko makes an excellent point with the I - IV - V7/V - V - I.

Moebius
June 3rd, 2004, 03:55 am
There are other obvious possibilities when you see an accidental. If you're in a minor key, you really can't escape from using an accidental. Other examples include chromatic auxilliary notes... They're non-harmony tones.

Alfonso de Sabio
June 4th, 2004, 01:58 pm
Do you have any suggestions on a decent book that teaches harmonic structure? I can understand what you're talking about because I took a class as a sophomore that was called Music Theory, but was actually, "Let's teach you how to look at a five bar piece of monophonic music and not piss your pants, and you can get your fine arts credit." And then it just simmered into a music appretiation class. Deaths of all deaths. But anyway, all the books I've found have been somewhat useless. But that is not saying much since my only resource is Books-A-Million and Waldenbooks. They have such riviting editions as, "A Complete Idiot's Guide to Music Theory," and "Music for Dummies." I have read a lot of Schoenberg's composition book, but it dealt mainly with the development of themes and whatnot. If you know anything, please share.
Sed signifer sanctus,
Michael

Al
June 4th, 2004, 04:10 pm
Schoenberg? Careful, guys like him actually move away from harmony, hehe.

Um, I can't really recommend books, because there are so many out there, and also I don't know where you live so the books I know might not be available for you. I know what you mean though, "music for dummies", etc. Um, you should either find a bigger book store, or better yet find a music (book) store. That's your best bet, or try searching online. Oh, and try to find books that are recommended by schools of music, and those that seem to be written by professionals/doctors (but not really the famous ones like Schoenberg, hehe, because I doubt they have the time to write simple/basic harmony books).

Gnomish
June 4th, 2004, 04:14 pm
Have you tried Jean-Philip Rameau's Treatise on Harmony?

Al
June 4th, 2004, 04:18 pm
Nope. And Rameau sounds too famous for me, haha. And if it's a treatise, it'll probably be too complicated for me (and many others) to understand.

Um, I don't have my books with me, but I remember a certain Boris Berlin being the (co-) author of many of the books I learned music off of. The answer to accidentals and harmony should all be there. ^_^

EDIT: Whoops, I don't think Gnomish was writing to me, haha. Never mind. :heh:

Moebius
June 5th, 2004, 11:36 pm
I used this book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0072415703/ref=ase_archinforinterna/002-6010896-3439267?v=glance&s=books)


Not too complicated; very easy to understand. It starts with ridiculously basic concepts like major scales and ledger lines (if I remember correctly) but it builds up to more complex concepts of harmony such as modulation. My teacher used it as a textbook in college.

Gnomish
June 10th, 2004, 03:47 am
I guess that whenever I use accidentals, I feel like I'm getting too far away from the mode of the piece... so I hesitate using them.