I know there are a lot of anime and video game fans on this site, but are there any classical fanatics? Who would you name as greatest composer ever and why? I definately nominate Mozart. He has the most perfectly balanced music ever written. He keeps a beautiful equilibrium going of simplicity and complexity. And his music is simply a joy to hear and play. Props to Mozart.

I nominate Johann Sebastian Bach! His music has taken the fusion of counterpoint and harmony to a new high and remains unmatched by anyone, as far as I'm concerned. His fugues aren't always the most showy or quick songs, but their complexity creates a puzzle in your mind just by listening to them. :) Now that's what I like about music. :)

My fave composer is Copland - Appalachian Spring is one of the most amazing tunes! Closely followed by Bach (Air on a G String - love it!) and Pachelbel (yeah, I know everyone likes Canon but it's still a damn good piece!) I like music that evokes feelings and imagery, yet funnily enough I also like serialism :mellow:

Originally posted by madmazda86@Jun 4 2004, 08:51 PM
My fave composer is Copland - Appalachian Spring is one of the most amazing tunes! Closely followed by Bach (Air on a G String - love it!) and Pachelbel (yeah, I know everyone likes Canon but it's still a damn good piece!) I like music that evokes feelings and imagery, yet funnily enough I also like serialism :mellow:
Do you like any of Pachelbel's other pieces?

BTW a close second to Bach for me would be Vivaldi. :)

My favourite composer is Chopin. His etudes are brilliant, I love them all. My favourite of his works are Revolutionary Study, Harp Study and Fantasia Impromtu. His work can be extrememly hard to play, but after learning it, you realize that it was more than worth it.

In my very unprofessional opinion I'd have to say Beethoven, simply because he's as well known as any other composer PLUS he lost his hearing but continued to compose.

A musician that loses his hearing is such a tragedy :(

Beethoven did not compose the 9th symphony deaf. That's a load of crap. He finished it and published it deaf,yes, but he had been working on it for fourty years of non-deaf time. Do you realize that Mozart didn't have the luxury of even being alive for fourty years. After fourty years, I think old Ludwig had a pretty good idea of what it sounded like. But yes, his 9th symphony is absolutely amazing. But just think of what Mozart could have done if he were alive as long as Beethoven. It makes me ever so sad. And as for the composing deaf business. Mozart could just write things (ex: symphonies and operas) down without ever touching an instrument. And he did it perfectly. Eat that Ludwig.

Mozart beats them all!! :P I've written too much in the past about this that I won't elaborate here. Same with Chopin, who's my second favourite. (If Mozart had lived longer, I like to imagine his music would have evolved into Chopin's style.)

Bach: Gnomish, try listening to some Mozart fugues, hehe. Mozart did lots of study on Bach's works, so I think you're in the best position to tell which is better. But anyways, yes, the counterpoint/harmony is complex, but I prefer deceptive simplicity. To make something complex sound easy is harder than you think! So that's real talent there. ;)

Copland: Too modern and American for me! (sorry if that was offensive :heh:) It's just that I don't believe in American and Canadian patriotism/nationalism in music (the music written for cowboys and native americans just doesn't sound good to me).

Pachelbel: I'd say most of the world only knows his Canon in D and none of his other songs. Therefore, he can't be the greatest composer. :sweatdrop: I also don't like songs that repeat the same chord progression over and over again. It gets annoying after a while, hehe.

Vivaldi: I think he's better than Pachelbel, but just like Pachelbel's Canon, hearing the Four Seasons (probably his only famous song, in my opinion) all the time gets on my nerves, hehe. Hmm, something tells me that I'm against a lot of baroque music. :think:

Beethoven: A tough one. Usually, I find that people either love Mozart or Beethoven, never both. Well, I find that Beethoven can go overboard sometimes, doing unnecessary things, but hey, that's his thing. Anyways, yes, Mozart can compose complete pieces in his head, go Mozart! XD But hmm, I'm pretty sure Beethoven was deaf when he wrote the 9th symphony (which I don't like; his 5th symphony was much better, but it's such a shame people don't know all four movements). Meh. Yes, it sucks that he went deaf, but it's still impressive that he was still able to compose. He probably has some form of perfect pitch, which would explain how he was still able to compose after becoming deaf . . .

Anyways, for all these reasons and many other reasons, this is why Mozart owns everyone! :D

Ok, granted: Beethoven's symphonies are better than Mozart's. But that's only because Mozart started getting really good at symphonies right before he died, and when Mozart started writing symphonies (in the womb) a "symphony" was just something to frame more prolific pieces during a performance. Mozart was one of the first to turn the symphony into what it is today. Without Mozart, Beethoven would have been nothing.
And Beethoven started the 9th symphony somewhere around thirty something years before he became deaf. So it is true that he was working on it while deaf, but he had been working on it for a long time.
And Alphonse is completely right. One is fanatical about Beethoven or Mozart. There is no middle ground. Mozart's supporters are bitterly jealous of Beethoven's fame, and Beethoven's fools are too snooty to appreciate the God that is Mozart. And Alphonse, the third and fourth movements of Beethoven's fifth are indeed splendid. But come on, it's the ninth symphony! Even I can admit it's the best symphony ever.
Oh, and although he is not the best- Handel. If you don't like him because of the Hallelujah Chorus, just go listen to the Dixit Dominus. Good gracious. Vanilla Ice took his backtrack from the first two bars of the Gloria Patri therein. I recomend Iudicabit in Nationibus, Iuravit Dominus, Gloria Patri, and of course Dixit Dominus (the opening movement). This was so good that Mendelssohn hand copied it all from a library and then kissed the manuscript rather than buy a publication.

Originally posted by Alfonso de Sabio@Jun 5 2004, 01:16 AM
Without Mozart, Beethoven would have been nothing.
:D I like that quote, hahahaha.

Back to being serious, hehe. I don't believe Beethoven's symphonies are better than Mozart's, but of course that's my opinion and I know nothing I say will convince people, haha. But I will say that many of Mozart's great symphonies are those that people aren't familiar with. Maybe it's because Beethoven only wrote 9, so it's easier for people to keep track and listen to them all, whereas Mozart wrote around 40 (41 I think? I'm so rusty!). Anyways, I know I only like 2 - 3 of Beethoven's symphonies, and of Mozart's, I like at least 5 very much.

So Beethoven started thinking about his 9th for a long time before becoming deaf, huh? Good fact to know, hehe. I was just making a point in general about him composing without sound. And no, I thought the 5th was much better than the 9th, haha. The 9th I felt was too long and drawn out (sorry!). I couldn't find anything memorable in the first three movements (except for the intro of the first, and that was only because of a movie I saw). And the last movement had the famous Ode to Joy theme, which was nice, but that was about it, haha. He just kept on piling up the "variations" and adding extra stuff that took away from the whole thing. I can't help but look at my watch, waiting for it to end!

Wahh, sorry for the bashing on Beethoven and the other composers, hehe, I can't help it. Hmm, to make it better, I'll try to talk about Chopin. Yes, that's what I'll do! ^_^ I believe his understanding of the piano is unsurpassed. All those things he can do with it is just amazing. He's got the emotion nailed down, but sometimes it's restrained and controlled. Just in general, his music is beautiful, so that's why I believe that although he's second to Mozart, he's still a great composer . . . and better than the rest on this page (hahaha, sorry, I couldn't resist).

EDIT: Handel eh? Yeah, he's not the best. Bach beats him hands down. Funny how they were both born in the same year. His Hallelujah chorus is okay, just overused. And people don't know how the rest of the song goes (I admit I also don't know). His Water Music annoys me because people play it all the time, hehe. And sorry, I haven't heard those songs that you've recommended. But if they're as good as you say they are, and as Mendelssohn thinks . . .

Mendelssohn: Great guy! Another child prodigy, hehe. I don't have anything against him, but there's nothing too special about him that makes him really stand out.

No, I don't mind Beethoven bashing. I do think he's highly over-rated. If it weren't for about three symphonies and everyone on earth learning to play fur Elise, he would have fallen into that void of lesser known composers. Mozart, however, mastered (and I repeat MASTERED) almost all forms of music.

Ok, I loathe the third movement of the 9th, but you can't say that the second is not memorable. It's so wonderfully manic-depressive. And yes, the fourth movement gets very heavy. But the tenor solo is one of my favorite pieces ever. I sing it in the shower all the time. Once I actually cried, but that was as much Schiller's doing as Beethoven. But I get teary every time I hear Papageno meet Papagena in the Magic Flute so, I still haven't commited musical adultery and fallen over to that abyss of Beethoven worship.

I don't know if Bach is better than Handel. It's a tough call. So little of what Handel wrote is still around in comparison, and they wrote in totally different genres, except organ improvisation; and for that we basically just have first hand accounts saying, "I liked the sounds, and the hands moving, and the themes, and the music in general." Check out the tenor solo, "He was despised," in Messiah. If it's sung well, it's beautiful. Also, again, listen to the entire Dixit Dominus. And keep in mind he wrote it when he was 21. Bach had yet to produce anything of note at that time. But, Bach is an undisputable master and in my top three.

I don't know much about the Romantics or Contemporaries. Sorry.

Maybe I should give up composition and take up Musicology. Or, better yet, I could just shoot myself now. Only failures and really strange people are Musicologists. The good ones aren't failures, but they are really strange.

Flaming one composer or another with flimsy opinions like, "Without Mozart, Beethoven would have been nothing," or, "Mozart beats them all." are simply unacceptable here... What one person likes another hates, but let's not make the line too clear, here. You must appreciate anyone who writes music, even if it doesn't fit your fancy... The title is, "Greatest Composer, Pick one". We're supposed to pick who we think is best, right? So why are we listening to Alfonse give meaningless reasons why "Mozart beats them all"? In my mind, he doesn't. He's just one of a million other composers, all of whom deserve respect and dignity in their own respective ways. So let's just appreciate each other's ideas of who is the greatest composer in their mind, rather than attack their favorites...

Um, no. Mozart is not one of the millions unless you're talking about just human beings. Mozart is the unequviocal, greatest genius music has ever seen, just looking at his mental capacity alone. His mind was created for music. He went to the Vatican, heard the mass that's only sung in that city, and then wrote it all done perfectly after he had left. All this as an adolescent.

Mozart is not one of the millions. Mozart had one of the greatest minds ever. I'm not just talking about music. He was simply a genius. He is not one of the millions. You can love and appreciate other works, but to say that Mozart is on the same level as the majority of composers is blasphemy.

And touching the "Without Mozart, Beethoven would have been nothing," quote. It was not a "flimsy opinion." It is a simple combination of two true statements about the progression of the symphony and what made Beethoven famous. 1) Mozart was one of the first composers to turn the symphony into a major work. Before Mozart, they were considered to be on the same level as a string quartet. Pretty, but not emotionally, artisticly, or intellectually riviting. 2)Beethoven was and is most famous for his symphonies. Which do you hear more often, "Beethoven's Choral Symphony no.9," or "Beethoven's Jesus on the Mount of Olives?" Beethoven obviously made other advancements in symphonies, but the movement was more or less started by Mozart. Thus, Beethoven's success has a direct link to Mozart's advancements in the field.

And this will make you feel good. Mozart's favourite composer was Bach. If it wasn't for Mozart, Bach would have probably been forgotten. Bach's popularity died as instantly as it had risen. Directly after the Baroque period, Bach's music fell into the void of "millions of other composers." Mozart was a key figure in its revival. So next time you're in awe whilst listening to Bach's counterpoint, remeber who made that possible.

To say that Mozart is on the same level as the majority of composers is blasphemy.

Oh, and by the way. Some composers are lame and full of it. They deserve no respect. I submit Hector Berlioz to this cateogry. May the just Lord in Heaven have mercy on his soul. Why give dignity to something that's a complete farce? Why pretend to treasure a mockery of all that is beautiful? This is accepting Berlioz as great.

I also apologize for my last post's incoherency. I got carried away with righteous indignation.

Originally posted by Gnomish@Jun 5 2004, 12:42 AM
Flaming one composer or another with flimsy opinions like, "Without Mozart, Beethoven would have been nothing," or, "Mozart beats them all." are simply unacceptable here... What one person likes another hates, but let's not make the line too clear, here. You must appreciate anyone who writes music, even if it doesn't fit your fancy... The title is, "Greatest Composer, Pick one". We're supposed to pick who we think is best, right? So why are we listening to Alfonse give meaningless reasons why "Mozart beats them all"? In my mind, he doesn't. He's just one of a million other composers, all of whom deserve respect and dignity in their own respective ways. So let's just appreciate each other's ideas of who is the greatest composer in their mind, rather than attack their favorites...
:heh: Sorry if I got carried away. For sure, I respect everybody's opinion. I was just having some fun, trying to see if I could prove something. Of course, there is no such thing as the greatest composer, but hey, doesn't hurt to have a nice debate. ^_^ Sorry again!

EDIT: Guess you're not used to my personality yet. I suppose when I put in a lot of smilies, that's my way of trying to show I'm not too serious, you know, I'm just seeing it as light-hearted fun. :lol:

EDIT: I'm harmless, really I am! :cry:

Alfonso de Sabio has raised some valid points, but I shall comment on some of them, because I feel that there are things that should be pointed out.


No, I don't mind Beethoven bashing. I do think he's highly over-rated. If it weren't for about three symphonies and everyone on earth learning to play fur Elise, he would have fallen into that void of lesser known composers.
I would disagree with you here if you said Beethoven was known only for his Symphonies. His 32 piano sonatas as well as his piano concertos are some of his better known works as well. Many others are highly regarded, including Missa Solemnis, his opera Fidelio and some of his chamber work. Fur Elise wasn't even a published piece; it is irrelevant to Beethoven's fame, at least during that era.


Without Mozart, Beethoven would have been nothing.
I wouldn't say without Mozart, Beethoven would have been nothing -- but I would say without HAYDN, Beethoven would have been nothing. Haydn, -the- contemporary of Mozart, was the one who mentored the young Beethoven. Therefore, I would say that how highly Beethoven is regarded today is not all about Mozart, but both Mozart and Haydn.

Even if it were from Mozart's contribution alone, how would it change the argument about which composer is better? If I were a good chef, and I taught my skills to someone and/or open paths for him, would it be impossible for him to surpass me in cooking? No. Therefore, in my opinion that point was irrelevant. Mozart undoubtedly would have been "nothing" himself if not because of the contributions from the composers before him.

And I could also say that Beethoven was the one who influenced pretty much every other composer after him who wrote symphonies, if you want to speak of contributions in symphony-writing.


And this will make you feel good. Mozart's favourite composer was Bach. If it wasn't for Mozart, Bach would have probably been forgotten. Bach's popularity died as instantly as it had risen. Directly after the Baroque period, Bach's music fell into the void of "millions of other composers." Mozart was a key figure in its revival. So next time you're in awe whilst listening to Bach's counterpoint, remeber who made that possible.
Actually Bach's music was still unheard of (among the public, but he was highly regarded among composers) during Mozart's era. It was not until 80 years after Bach's death that his music gained attention from the public. And the key figure to that revival was Mendelssohn, who arranged for one of Bach's pieces to be played in public. Just pointing that out, not that it means anything.

There isn't anything else to refute, since the other points raised were personal opinion. I actually agree with you on some areas.

Now, I will not state which composer I favour (I can't really make up my mind at the moment), but for the sake of this argument, I will provide a few points of my own:

1. If you're going to talk about contributions to music and other composers, think about this: The music that is composed before Beethoven and the music composed after Beethoven are regarded as two different musical eras.

2. Beethoven paid too much attention to form, one of the reasons why he was despised by Debussy.

3. Mozart's music was more or less influenced by patrons, the people who pay him to make music. It explains the bright character present in most or many of his pieces; his sonatas, in particular. Beethoven was known to have not conformed to his patrons' wishes, one reason being he was a pretty arrogant bastard. *laughs*

4. Mozart himself acknowledged Beethoven's talent. When he first met the young Beethoven, he said, "One day this boy will force the world to talk about him". And he was right.


And btw, currently my favourite composers are Brahms, Schubert, Mahler and Sibelius. My tastes, of course, change very frequently.

I will not try to nominate a "best" composer.

EDIT: Alphonse, as much as I adore Chopin, I don't think he could even contend as the best composer. That guy couldn't orchestrate if his life depended on it. But of course, I love much of his work.

Originally posted by Moebius@Jun 5 2004, 04:07 AM
And btw, currently my favourite composers are Brahms, Schubert, Mahler and Sibelius. My tastes, of course, change very frequently.

I will not try to nominate a "best" composer.

EDIT: Alphonse, as much as I adore Chopin, I don't think he could even contend as the best composer. That guy couldn't orchestrate if his life depended on it. But of course, I love much of his work.
Hehe, I hardly listen to Chopin's orchestra pieces, so maybe that's why I'm ignorant. I'm a pianist. What can I say? I play his piano pieces, hahaha.

Um, from your list of favourite composers, I like Schubert the most. I think Brahms is okay, and . . . yeah, that's about it. ^_^

Originally posted by Alphonse@Jun 5 2004, 12:22 PM
Hehe, I hardly listen to Chopin's orchestra pieces, so maybe that's why I'm ignorant. I'm a pianist. What can I say? I play his piano pieces, hahaha.

Um, from your list of favourite composers, I like Schubert the most. I think Brahms is okay, and . . . yeah, that's about it. ^_^
Because he has very little.. lol.. All of his music is composed for the piano, somehow. And in the ones that do feature other instruments or voices, there is piano as well.

And yeah, I'm a pianist as well and that's the reason why I adore him so much.

Ok, you're right, I get absolutely carried away with my Mozart fanaticism. But Beethoven's opera (note the singular. ) is largely famous just because Beethoven wrote it. When the average Joe hears the word "opera," he thinks of The Queen of the Night's aria in the beginning of the second act of [i]The Magic Flute. Mozart wrote three pillar operas. I mean, without Don Giovani, The Marriage of Figaro, and The Magic Flute, a soloist's repertoire is laughable. And that's without mentioning Idomeneo. I guess my major contention is that Mozart was more eminent in many more genres than Beethoven. Here's a sample of some of his work that's definately at the top of the genre.

Prolific symphonies:
40th, "Jupiter"

Concertos:
Third Violin

Operas:
The Magic Flute, Don Giovani, Marriage of Figaro, Idomeneo, Cosi fan tutte

Spiritual:
Requiem K626, Coronation Mass in C minor

Piano Sonatas:
Sonata in D major K. 311

Chamber Music:
Eine Kleine Nachtmusik

And that's just 12 of 626, all selected with my limited knowledge.

And I acknowledge that Beethoven was a big boy and wrote those symphonies on his own, but Beethoven supporters should recognize what Mozart did for the world. There might not have been a 9th symphony if Mozart wasn't making great strides in the area. I know that Mozart never taught Beethoven, and I know all about Mozart hearing Beethoven improvise. I can acknowledge what Beethoven did, but I think Mozart deserves more recognition than he gets.

Oh, and please don't get me wrong. I own all of Beethoven's symphonies on sheet music and CD. By that I mean I actually spent my money on all of that. I highly respect his work and contribution to the symphony. I don't think anyone has ever written them as well as he did. And I use the symphonies as an example because I think that's what he was best at. I mean, I love his Third, Fifth, and Ninth to a ridiculous extent. When I saw the Ninth symphony it was a religious experience. I bought with my own money five seats three rows back from the stage and sat in the middle so no one would disturb me. My plans, however, were thwarted when a seat broke and a party swarmed around me.

Originally posted by Moebius@Jun 5 2004, 09:07 AM
Actually Bach's music was still unheard of (among the public, but he was highly regarded among composers) during Mozart's era. It was not until 80 years after Bach's death that his music gained attention from the public.
And if that wasn't bad enough, they tried to burn Vivaldi's 4 Seasons! :o

Regarding Copland - I know his pieces were very patriotic, but as instrumental pieces they are awesome. Appalachian Spring especially - so many moods created in a single piece!

Pachelbel's Canon I like because I've performed it - I do have a copy of his Gigue somewhere which I like too. I know it's down to personal taste but I really like ground bass pieces, hence I enjoyed Canon and Bach's Air on a G String. Other pieces I like include Faure's Pavane ('cause like Air and Canon I've played it ;)), anything by Paganini and the Oriental from 12 Spanish Dances (Granados - lovely piece!)

My tastes are quite varied really - also seeing as there's a lot of Mozart fans on here, have many heard/liked some of the stuff by his Dad? There's a nice foxhunting piece by him that alas I don't know the title of :)

I'm no classical fanatic at all...but my favorite classical composer would be Beethoven. I don't know why, but I sometimes 'hum' his melodies o_O;

And about the "disrespecting composers" thing that Gnomish brought up, why not? They're long dead. If Alfonso de Sabio thinks that Beethoven would have been nothing without Mozart, then it's his opinion, and this topic would be a spam topic if you only were to choose your favorite composer. A debate in a topic like this is a must, if you want to keep it somewhat alive and interesting.

EDIT: Oh, and to all the people who consider Mozart being some sort of god, who no one has the right to flame and call "one of a million other composers" I think you are so wrong. Get over it and have in mind that not everyone feels for him as much as you do. Maybe he was a genious, but he is a human being, and it's unfair if he is considered better than anyone else.

I thought about your post, and I have to disagree. Mozart is a god.

There is no greatest composer. You have the right here to express your opinions. Although this isn't my thread, I'm sure we'd get along better if we just posted our nominees and opinions why they are "the best" to us, without posting counterexamples. People have their favorites and everyone is convinced that their favorite should be the favorite of others. You can't force Mozart on people... :P I, for one, don't care for classical music (in the sense of the classical era, not "classical" music as a whole). So why would I listen to it when I have Baroque, Renaissance, and Medieval? :D I've got my favorites and you all have yours. Just explain why you think they're the best. Don't shoot down others' reasons! :)

*rant off* :P

Because Medeival music is undeveloped child's play that is horribly inarticulate. Also, I like counterexamples. I don't want this to turn into spam. I want blood! And Mozart is your Daddy.

Originally posted by Alfonso de Sabio@Jul 3 2004, 09:00 PM
Mozart is a god.
Your god. He's a more of a ...peasant to me.

How marvelously pretentious. Newbie.

Originally posted by Alfonso de Sabio@Jul 3 2004, 09:13 PM
Because Medeival music is undeveloped child's play that is horribly inarticulate. Also, I like counterexamples. I don't want this to turn into spam. I want blood! And Mozart is your Daddy.
... it's terrible of you to put down an entire genre of music...

Originally posted by Alfonso de Sabio@Jul 3 2004, 09:17 PM
How marvelously pretentious. Newbie.
That's correct, I'm a total newbie when it comes to music. So what? It's still my opinion. -_-

Oh come on. Medieval is seriously underdeveloped. lol, did notation even exist back then? They had no way of even writing down the music they created -- they can't be -that- complex.

Anyway, now I have an opinion: The greatest composer is Wagner. Wagner is GOD.

He composed the Wedding March right? The "Here comes the bride" ?

Not "Wedding March"; it's the "Bridal Chorus" from the opera Lohengrin. Wedding March is by Mendelssohn which is from A Midsummer Night's Dream.

..It's sad if he's only known for Bridal Chorus and say, Ride of the Valkyries. It's almost like Brahms being only known for his lullaby. Or Beethoven known only for Fur Elise.

Wagner was Hitler's favourite composer. Not that that means anything. There's some really good playin' of his Bridal Chorus in Spiderman 2. Though, it might just be because I fall for all things organ. I've been listening to a lot of Tchaikovsky recently, and I think he's underplayed. I really like the third mvt. of his 1st piano concerto. It's a shame that he's only known for the Nutcracker (even though that has some nice points).

Yeah, I'm aware of the Wagner-Hitler connection. Wagner was anti-Semite, although himself being half Jew, if I remember correctly. Grrr.. I pretty much lost my music history knowledge down the drain.

EDIT: Wagner is also Stephen Hawking's favourite composer, apparently.

Tchaikovsky... I don't listen to much of him. All my music teachers adore him, though.

Well, if you're big on the piano, check out Lang Lang's recording of Tchaikovsky's and Mendelssohn's first piano concerto (it comes on the same album). It's brilliant. Every aspect of the recording is perfect.

Oh no, please. I hate Lang Lang.

First there is his arrogance. Secondly his interpretation is VERY much questionable. He's still young -- he has good technique, no doubt.. but he has to work on his musicianship. When I see him play it's all about displaying his flying fingers. Young and immature. Period.

I did see a video of the Tchaikovsky recording, though.

Alright, better not sway from the original topic any further.

Do I sense jealousy?

Nah. There's another Chinese pianist, around Lang Lang's age, called Li Yundi. And his playing I very much adore. If I'm not jealous of Yundi, there's no reason to be jealous of Lang Lang. ;)

It's funny how I give criticism to one pianist and it gets labelled as "jealousy". Oh well.

It's just that sometimes I'm over critical of Beethoven because I'm terribly jealous. It's a silly thing to do, but I do it anyway. But back on topic. Mendelssohn. Oh, Mendelssohn. I love his stuff so much. I mean everything from, "Hark the Herald Angels Sing," to his violin concerti. And he wrote some organ sonatas, which earns him serious points in my book.

There was a notation by Alphonso de Sabien (sp?) that 'Jupiter' the 41st! symphony by Mozart is not the '40th' but no harm there. (This is known under the categorization (by someone I dont know) as K.551.

A quote 'Without Mozart, Beethoven would have been nothing...' When I read that, my initial response was to bash that person until he knew his facts, but the point has been bashed enough already so I wont waste time.

A quote 'Wagner is god' (I'm still laughing as I write this :drool: :D :sweatdrop: )

Beethoven's 9th Symphony is nice, and I like it a lot, but come on, how long can you listen to German (I think its German) men and women screeching about 'Joy'... Although the English translated-preformances bothered me as well. The introduction for the choral sections were long and overbearing. The second movement was a masterpiece in my opinion, the BEST part of the 9th.

Mozart is a genius, his music skills are unparrelled and uncontended in the field (of course I believe that this is due to his death and his 'requiem' "exit" as a precursor to his death) If MOzart was alive I dont doubt K1000 would have been reached. (Although how many damn idea's can you have .... Thats Mozart)

Chopin is considered the person who made the piano 'sing.' Blah! This is a load of garbage, I mean sure his work is nice, but give me a break. His music, while extremely likeable (to some) is a farce in comparison to the technical genius of Baroque music such as Bach.... Although Chopins Ballads ROCK!

Vivaldi, is annoying at times, but give the man credit when its due, 440 (or so) concerto's for the violin is quite a feat in my opinion.

Beethoven.. is a genius, but forget all that nonsense about his deafness, that is not the point. The point of his genius is his work as a whole, and the additional attribute of continuous bass chords and progressions are truelly due to his hearing problem in my opinion.

Have any of you heard the Chicone by Bach..... That is literally one of the most difficult violin works ever created..... I suggest Lara St. James for a good preformance.


EDIT:
====
So it seems that some of the points above in this post have already been pointed out, (I read the rest of this topic), and well let me continue now that im more relaxed.

(The next section of my commentary may be inaccurate I'm not sure if its Pachabel or Paginni :crybaby: :sweatdrop: )
Pachabel's Canon in D is the most overrated song on EARTH!!!!!!!!!!! (The same as Beethoven's Bagatelles--which # I dont remember--Fur Elise) Pomp and Circumstance is much better as an orchestral work. Canon in D is simplistic in nature and dribble in comparison--although I heard a very nice arrangement by someone I dont know that was extremelly well put together)
===
So who is the best..........

How can you ask such an absurd question....... There is no clear definate answer, and it would drive many music scholars grow old and weary of debate...... So lets just say this 'THERE IS NO GREATEST COMPOSER!!!!!!!!'

CHOPIN!!!!!!!

his pieces are just soooooooooooo out of this world.
His chords are everywhere, containing more than 5 notes per chord in some pieces. Especially liked his studies and Polonaises. very very challenging but very detailed and complicated pieces. his pieces shows up and down feelings very very dramatically. His pieces contained so much emotions!! like the Revolutionary Etude!!

His orchestral pieces are very powerful, motivative, yet romantic at the same time.

I feel sorry for him tho...lost the one he loved...when his health grew from bad to worse...Man if he were to write music all the way to when he's 60...OH man so many pieces to play now!!! ^.^

STUPID TUBUCULOSIS!!!!!!! we can cure it simply by taking this pill!!! ARG!!!

Well...


Vivaldi, is annoying at times, but give the man credit when its due, 440 (or so) concerto's for the violin is quite a feat in my opinion.

Annoying? How so?... don't say it's because the media overuses the 4 seasons... :P


Have any of you heard the Chicone by Bach..... That is literally one of the most difficult violin works ever created..... I suggest Lara St. James for a good preformance.

Which BWV# is it? If you are referring to one of the partitas or sonatas from BWVs 1001-1006, then I agree... :P I think a very hard song is the fuga from Sonata #1 in G minor (BWV1001). (Here's the midi: Fuga in G minor for solo violin (http://www.virtualsheetmusic.com/MIDI/Bach/SonataVl1/02Fuga_-_Allegro.mid))


(The next section of my commentary may be inaccurate I'm not sure if its Pachabel or Paginni :crybaby: :sweatdrop: )
Pachabel's Canon in D is the most overrated song on EARTH!!!!!!!!!!!...
Canon in D is simplistic in nature and dribble in comparison--although I heard a very nice arrangement by someone I dont know that was extremelly well put together)

Well... I don't like these comments at all... :/

The Canon and Gigue in D major by Johann PachELbel may have a ground bass chord progression, but it was one of the last pieces of early Baroque music and is still liked by people over 300 years later... You may call the song simplistic, but by stating this opinion, it points out that perhaps you fail to appreciate a song which is actually done in strict Canonic Form for 3 different violin parts following a ground bass chord progression with improvised harpsichord ornaments. The song sounds very simplistic but is actually complicated... Perhaps if you heard the song in its original arrangement (3 Violins and Continuo), it would allow you to appreciate the form of Canon a bit more. :P Canon is even stricter than Fugue... Pachelbel's Canon and Gigue in D major gained recognition in its day for being pulled off so nicely in the traditional Canonic form, and it is appreciated to this day for the simply beautiful and varied melodies that the three violins interweave... :) Sorry, I'm not trying to stir you up or anything, but I just think that people say that they dislike so many nice songs because they are overused or seem too simple for the music that people this day in age have learned to appreciate and expect...

:ph34r: *takes a few notes down* interesting, yes perhaps my opinion on Canon in D is a bit subjective in terms of todays modern interpretations and instrumental arrangements. :sigh:

The comment about the error is due to me not knowing if Pomp in Circumstance is by Pachelbel (sigh stupid spelling) or Paginni. However, research on my part has shown that it is Elgar (hits head against a wall).

I am very open minded with music, but regardless of the strict forms of Canon in D as you put it, I failed to find it interesting in comparison to works by Chopin Beethoven and so forth. Thats my opinion on that matter. Vivaldi is probably annoying to me because I have heard so few of his recordings and that trying to find anything on the internet with everything leading to the Four Seasons or the Grasso Concerto's and so forth. I dont want to buy any more cds.. (i reached 300 in one two months).

Originally posted by Neerolyte@Jul 10 2004, 04:14 AM
CHOPIN!!!!!!!

His orchestral pieces are very powerful, motivative, yet romantic at the same time.


You must be kidding me.

Anyway, what BWV was that Chiaccone by Bach? (I'm guessing it's Partita No. 2 in D major BWV1004, maybe?)

Thats correct gnomish, bwv 1004.

I dont think it is fair to define a "greatest composer" and indeed I dont think it is possible actually. How do you define greatest? Is it the one who is the most popular? (Rachmaninoff currently in the UK)? Is it the one who push the music boundary the furthest (In that respect, I reckon John Cage might have the crown for being weirdest ... no offense to Cage lovers out there^^)?

From my intepretation, I think it means the most influential. But how do you measure that anyway? A lot of people have been coming up with arguments like so and so will be nothing if it wasn't for someone else and so and so have written this many influential pieces. The problem is, music, like most other things, gradually built on predecessors.

A lot of composers, say Brahms and Mahler, based their music on Beethoven, but he, in turn, based his music on Mozart who based his music on Haydn. So, following this logic, are we saying Haydn is the most influential of all as he had influence on this long line of composers. But Haydn had based his music on Bach who based his music on Vivaldi who based his music on Palestrini......etc etc etc(some of them are not strictly but you get the picture ^^).

Well, there's the father of symphony, father of string quartet, father of opera, father of this, father of that, but is there a "father of music"? The answer is clearly no, unless you want to stick some Greek God down there (Greek God of Music is Apollo btw).

The point I am trying to make is that the question of this thread is a bit unfounded when clearly it is impossible to say who contributed the most.

Music is pretty subjective really. There might be a piece of music I like but others hate and vice versa. I personally love Rachmaninoff and Beethoven's but dislike those of Stravinsky and Wagner. A lot of people are going to disagree with me but it's their preferences so I respect them. I think it'll make life a lot easier if you just say your favourite composer rather than anything :D :lol:

I thought I'd take my time to explain why Beethoven is my favourite composer (followed by Chopín)

--Beethoven:

Moonlight Sonata 1st MVT: This is a well known favourite for many people (as well despised for some..). What I love about this piece is that it really reflects upon its name. The melody is almost mesmerizing, along with the tuplets. So well-structured and fun to play, even though it's very slow.

Moonlight Sonata 3rd MVT: Although I can't play many measures of this piece, it's still one of my favourite of Beethoven's works. I like the fact that this one also reflects upon "Moonlight" but in a totally different way.

Pathétique Sonata 2nd MVT: I like this piece's crystal clear melody line, and it's pretty easy to play.

His name: I think of him as a dog. :think: Roll over, Beethoven!

-- Chopin:

Fantasie Impromptu: So virtoustic...
"Ocean" Etude: Because it sounds like waves crashing into rocks

-- J.S Bach

Badinerie: Because it makes me melt ;___;

Toccata and Fugue in Dm: I really like this piece, especially the opening measures. Although I'm not fond of the organ, this piece manages to get into my mind very easily.

-- Schubert

Marche Militaire: Dun-dun,dun-dundun - Dun-dun,dun-dundun. This piece is amazing. It's *really* fun to play, and I'm getting pretty good at it :)

I don't know why I didn't include Mozart on this list, but I guess his works didn't really speak to me. :/

*raises topic from obscurity*

It seems that many people here like baroque/classical music. I do too, of course, but for me, it's not as emotionally influenced as music of the later eras. Romanticism is probably the most well-known "movement," with composers like Brahms, Dvorak, Tchaikovsky, Mahler, Wagner, Bruch, Mendelssohn, Schubert, Chopin, Elgar, Sibelius, Rachmanninov (yeah, he was later, but his music is still pretty romantic) etc etc., in terms of the ammount of music made during this time.

I really respsect the "Impressionists" like Debussy, Ravel, and Satie; I think they're music is, how do you say... wicked awesome. Shostakovich and Stravinsky, too, have my respsect, because their music pisses me off, but in a good way.

As for the "Greatest composer ever," it's usually always a split between Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven. Personally, I'd say Beethoven, because he was the first to really put emotion into his peices. It was revolutionary; before that, music was just for entertainment, not for expression. He turned it from something you listen to while having a dinner party to something you sit mesmerized in your chair listening to. It really opened up the possibilities for others who didn't wanted to create art instead of entertainment.

Debussy.

...Yes, that's all I have to say. >_>

Yes, Debussy is extremely important for the 20th century composers. I absolutely adore his music.

But I still gotta hand it to Beethoven. :p

HEY GOSH DANG IT!!! I was going to say Debussy!!! Personally, my favorite is REALLY John Williams, but since he's a movie composer...I'll have to go Debussy.

John Williams does -some- non-movie stuff; programme music and what not. A few concerti here and there. I've never heard any of it though, but I'd imagine it's not bad.

Since deathraider brought up film composers, I might as well give my favorite composers according to category. ^^;

FILM COMPOSER ~ Danny Elfman
VIDEO-GAME COMPOSER ~ UEMATSU Nobuo
BAROQUE COMPOSER ~ G. F. Handel
CLASSICAL COMPOSER ~ W. A. Mozart
ROMANTIC COMPOSER ~ Frederic Chopin
SYMBOLISTIC COMPOSER ~ Claude Debussy
MODERN COMPOSER ~ Norman Dello Joio
AMATEUR COMPOSER ~ Alphonse Nguyen (=P)

Whee! Perhaps we should all do this?

FILM COMPOSER ~ Joe Hisaishi
VIDEO-GAME COMPOSER ~ Nobuo Uematsu
BAROQUE COMPOSER ~ J. S. Bach (Cello Suites = yes)
CLASSICAL COMPOSER ~ Early L. von Beethoven
ROMANTIC COMPOSER ~ A. Dvorak/P. Tchaikovsky/J. Sibelius?
SYMBOLISTIC COMPOSER ~ Claude Debussy
MODERN COMPOSER ~ Dmitri Shostakovich

Mozart. I love most of his music, so many symphonies...

Beethoven, was kinda weird to me. Fur Elise, awesome, but he overdid it in a lot of his pieces.
Pachelbel, yeah I love Canon, but that's it.

Chopin, like wow, I love most of his stuff. Too bad Mozart wasn't like him, would have been "even more perfect" haha. Well yeah if Mozart could time travel he would have been like Chopin. But still, Mozart was the man, no joke.

He could write a symphony in his head faster than you could take a shower. That my friends, is greatness.

:heh: @ Ureshii and Darksage . .

Baroque: Bach
Classical: Mozart
Romantic: Chopin
Post: Rachmaninov
Modern: Kabalevsky

just an add-on

Dark:Beethoven
Happy: Joplin (lol)
Exercises: Hanon

Baroque: Handel?
Classical: Beethoven
Romantic: Chopin
Post: Rachmaninov
Modern: No idea.

No Ravel? Ravel is awesome...his pieces are insanely difficult (Gaspard de la Nuit, anyone?), but they sound absolutely amazing. I guess the reason he's unknown is because he didn't write very much (he was a perfectionist of sorts)...

Prokofiev is cool too...very foreign and yet very familiar (must be Disney's Fantasia :P), but wayyy out of my league...

Ravel is amazing, there's no doubt about it; and he's pretty damn well known (amongst those who pay attention to classical music); however, his only problem is that not many people label him as "the greastest composer;" however, he's really good. Same with Prokofiev. Amazing music, but not as amazing as others (perhaps? it's mostly just popular opinion).

Is there a difference between "Symbolistic," and "Impressionistic?"

Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven are probably among the greatest. I never liked Mozart much, but he may well have been the greatest of them all. I personally like Beethoven much more.

I haven't heard much Romanticist and \Impressionist music beyond a few things by Rachnaninov and Wagner that I liked.


Anyway, now I have an opinion: The greatest composer is Wagner. Wagner is GOD.

I have an intense hatred for the man himself, given that he did contribute to the birth of Nazi Germany. On the other hand, what little of his music I've heard, I've found to be excellent, though I'm not sure it would qualify as among the greatest.

Bah! I don't like Wagner. Comparing the two, Brahms is the man for me. His school is so much nicer on the ears (there was a sort of feud between the two back in the day). He followed Beethoven more, whereas Wagner was more into creating new styles or what have you. I do not happen to like these "new styles," and prefer Brahms' stuff. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Is there a difference between "Symbolistic," and "Impressionistic?"

No; there isn't. Impressionism was a term that Ravel and Debussy reportedly did not like, so they instead suggested Symbolism as a name for their primary genre. I like showing a bit of respect to those composers. so I prefer to say Symbolistic. :P

contempary composers: danny elfman and nobuo oemutsu(sp) (ff guy)

chopin, as classical, some of his scores are incredible although moonlight sonata is probably my favorite piano score ever, so batehoven deserves a mention:lol:

nobuo oemutsu(sp)

Uematsu... XD

Mozart. Simple. Even his most simple songs, (twinkle twinkle little star) are good songs. Plus he's written symphonys, we're talking 100 or so instruments put together to make music. He is definatlly one of the best or the best.

Symphonies were written by most composers after Haydn, and the orchestras required for Mozart and Haydn's symphonies are relatively small compared to more recent ones like Rachmanninov and Shostakovich.

Well. Out of my favorites:

1. Beethoven
2. Chopin
3. Liszt
4. Tchaikovsky

Beethoven. Obviously and not from, "BEETHOVEN > ALL YO!!!" But because I know so much about his life and everything that he must be nominated as the "Greatest Composer"

Mozart. Simple. Even his most simple songs, (twinkle twinkle little star) are good songs. Plus he's written symphonys, we're talking 100 or so instruments put together to make music. He is definatlly one of the best or the best.

He didn't write Twinkle Twinkle Little Star (the theme is from the french song, "Ah! Vous dirai-je, Maman"), but he did write the variations for it. And I believe that while his symphonies were large for the time, he didn't have 100 instruments. (But I still think he's the best =P)

For me, the three pillars of classical music are Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven. Bach had the most technical genius; Mozart was the best dramatist and had the most lyrical power; Beethoven's music has a psychological genius that no other composer can approach.

My favorite would have to be Pablo de Sarasate. His showy violin pieces are really amazing to watch and hear, especially Zapateado, Carmen Fantasy, Zigeunerweisen and Caprice Basque.

Johann Sebastian Bach would be at a close second, though.

Hm... A revived topic...

Anyways, I think the greatest composers would be Rimsky-Korsakov (awesome awesome orchestration), Ravel (again, awesome orchestration) and Bach. Mozart is also on the greatest composers list, but it's just that I can't really listen to his music for too long, but his music is really fun to play.

The title (after some researching) of "Greatest composer" from what I've read is Mozart... it is rumored that "Mozart music makes you smarter".

That's all alpha music clari. :P
I still like uematsu because he's simple.he was one of the reasons I started playing band instruments so I'm a little biased.

Maybe not the greatest -- can't say I know them all -- but Frank Zappa is one heck of a composer !

There's no doubt that Mozart would have gotten to K.1000+ had he not died so young. but how do you measure greatness?

Chopin is my favorite to play, but to listen to theres Debussy, Ravel, Rachmaninoff, Liszt... those kind of people O_O

Rimsky Korsakov, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Wagner and Mozart. (Though I passionately dislike him, I love his Requiem.)

It's hard for me to decided on my favourite composer.. but I do know one thing... medieval music is highly underrated! so... GO GO KING HENRY VIII!
He wrote the catchiest medieval tunes ever! :heh:
"Pastime with good company" :D

I would definitely say Beethoven. Mozart and Bach are great, but Beethoven really seems to be the best overall.

PS: Although I've heard admittedly little of Nobuo Uematsu, I'm inclined to doubt whether he compares to Beethoven.;)

Bach! Mozart follows up as a close second place. I find Bach's music so inspirational, and I believe his Chaconne is the greatest piece of music ever composed.

Hey, guess what?

Beethoven > All.

:)

Lately I have been listening to works from Michael Giacchino, especially his works in the Medal of Honor Frontline OST. I've come to like what he does and would highly recommend taking a listen to his works. I know that he did some of the pieces in Disney's "The Incredibles."