Hello!!! I'm justing poking around here to ask for advice on how to study Japanese, speak and read it. ^_^ I dunno where to start...I have the books and cd's and Internet (my favorite by the way... <_<...^_^) None at all seems to really help me remember...I just look at words and sentences and memorize them...is that good? Anyways please help me out!! :heh:

P.S
I kinda lost my memory and can't remember what good Japanese sites are...*wink wink* Thanks alot!!

well,its pretty easy for chinese people to study japanese...but not for westerners
since its completely different types of languages,so its not only a matter of ur memory
i think the best way to start is to watch japanese version of movies or animes...anything you can find
listening first,and then reading...
especially for japanese,they r all words telling the pronounciation not meanings
the words r hard to keep in mind,after listening u will find it easy to learn
がんばって～

well,its pretty easy for chinese people to study japanese...but not for westerners
since its completely different types of languages,so its not only a matter of ur memory
i think the best way to start is to watch japanese version of movies or animes...anything you can find
listening first,and then reading...
especially for japanese,they r all words telling the pronounciation not meanings
the words r hard to keep in mind,after listening u will find it easy to learn
がんばって～
Yeah that's what I'm doing too. I noticed it's easier if you listen first if you want to learn Japanese . :heh: ha-ha I'm such a dumbutt!! I have a native language (Apache) that my family wants me to learn because I don't know it like everyone else on the reservation and yet I'm trying to defy the odds by learning Japanese! XD But it makes me feel good when I say something or understand something that my family doesn't get. :P 1 point for Cubby!!

...take lessons? You can find a local Japanese school (y'know, like Sunday school, except for Japanese kids), or take it in high school/university.

well,its pretty easy for chinese people to study japanese...but not for westerners
since its completely different types of languages,so its not only a matter of ur memory
i think the best way to start is to watch japanese version of movies or animes...anything you can find
listening first,and then reading...
especially for japanese,they r all words telling the pronounciation not meanings
the words r hard to keep in mind,after listening u will find it easy to learn
がんばって～

The only thing Chinese and Japanese have in common is the kanji, that's all. They are two totally different languages. Japanese has 63 different sounds in speech, Chinese has over 700. They are not related. Japanese is more related to Turkish than it is to Chinese (according to my teacher they belong in the same group of languages, there's only three of them in the whole world, Japanese, Turkish and another one, don't know which one though.)

This should go in everyday chatter btw

I'm Chinese, I can speak it but learning to read and write is hhaaarrdd so many characters X_x Angelic's right, DIFFERENT, I know random Japanese like "hello" and "your ears are nice" but it's very different still...I don't make sense...

But i think learning ANY language, the bast way is to have a teacher, like in person...yeah...

My teacher wrote the Chinese sentence for "I am your friend" and the Japanese version of that sentence on the whiteboard. They didn't have a single match, I believe even the grammar was different. The only advantage I see for Chinese speaking people is that they know some kanji (although this could backfire at them if they can't learn the Japanese meaning of certain kanji that have a different meaning in Japanese) and they are used to using symbols while western people are used to letters.

Actually, there are a lot (over a thousand) of Japanese symbols that were borrowed from Chinese, so there has got to be some same things. Some of them, the meaning is the same but they say it differently.

I understand Japanese......just by seeing Anime&#180;s I&#180;ve learned.
But I sure as hell can&#180;t read Japanese.

Blombrink- So you learned, by just listening to animes?

The Chinese grammar sentance structure is more similar to English than it is to Japanese. Example: wo ai ni: wo = I, ai = love, ni = you. In Japanese, this sentance is "watashi wa anata wo aishimasu," where watashi = I, wa = subject particle, anata = you, wo = object particle, ai = love [same thing, borrowed from Chinese, the kanji is similar], shimasu = to do; Chinese for that sentance is Subject, Verb, Object; in Japanese, it's Subject, Object, Verb. You'll notice that for that simple sentance, the Chinese grammar structure is the same as English, where Japanese is closer to Korean.

Though Japanese does have Chinese characters (yes, the infamous Kanji), the writing style is completely different. While Chinese uses these characters all the time, Japanese uses the Chinese characters [I] in addition to two other alphabets (hiragana- used for particles and native Japanese words, and katakana, used for onomatapia and foreign words), each of which have 40 or so characters. Being literate in Japanese means knowing about 2,000 kanji, I think. I've been studying Japanese for 4 years in school and I only know about 120. There are around 1800 kanji used in the Japanese language.

The kanji have different readings depending on context; a native Japanese reading, and a Chinese reading, though they are usually homonyms. Generally speaking, if the phrase is combined with hiragana, then one uses the Japanese pronounciation. If the phrase/word is all kanji, then one would generally use the Chinese pronounciation. For example: the kanji for sun; Japanese pronounciation is "hi" (hee), and the Chinese pronounciation would be "nichi" (neechee), as in NIhon, meaning "Land of the rising SUN," written by the kanji "nichi" and "hon," compared to "ohisama," which would be written o (hiragana, used to make it formal), hi (kanji), sama (hiragana, as in what you would call a respected person, like your boss), which is a really polite way of saying "sun."

As for how to learn Japanese, I'd suggest taking a class somehow with a real Japanese teacher.

I took 3 comunity college classes on it. and according to my teacher Japanese evolved from Chinese which evolved from Eygyptian Hyroglyphs.

Speak and Understand: You can learn a lot from watching, but it doesn't complete the picture. I've been watching anime for about 5 years now in japaneese (more like my life was about Anime rather that my life was about school), and not once did I fully understand it's particles (ga, wa, o, no, ni, e, de, ka; I think that's all of them) and where to use them in a sentence. Sure, by watching you can learn how to pick up on some subjects and various actons (hitari=light, mizu=water, persocom=PC *points to chobits*, Sakura=cherry blossom (or cherry), exc...), but to actually form the sentence in your mind, is an entirely different story; not mentioning the approprate wording for the situation (whether or not to use the polite suffix mas, desu, Using Watashi, Boku, Ore (all mean I or myself), choosing slang or proper such as gokyodai/onee-san/Aniki (all meaining brother)) As much as you will pick up from watching and listening, you must also read and study (Piemur or some other book, I'd suggest a phrasebook that teaches you proper diction), or else you would speak a very choppy version of it. (Nothing worse than trying to explain that you are lost to a japaneese person and you keep saying it in subject-verb-object as opposed to subject-object-verb; and then figure out that you were using impolite words that are considered taboo in the region!)

But one thing good from being around the language is that you come to understand what words are used when, how they are used, and you also learn the traditions of speech in the process. It'll feel more natural to speek it if you are around it (the whole total immersion theory for foreign languages).

Reading it... How do you say... Seems kinda impossible. There are some odd 1960 Kanji used in a modern day japaneese newspaper (GT of 2230 entries in the Kodansha Essental Kanji dictionary). And learning to read them makes you feel like you have to give an arm and a leg just to figure out how to find a word in a kanji dictionary! Only by memorization and repetition can you learn to read and write kanji (at least the basic radical method x.x God I hate that method....). If you are in a situtation that you must know what a kanji charater says, check out Kodansha's Kanji Learner's Dictionary (www.kodansha-intl.com) It provides a very easy look-up system (skip) that requires no form of memorization or previous knowlage, just the ability to count the number of stokes in a single charater.

@.@.... It's a lot to do, but it is a reletivly simple language to speak, and most people whom speak english, with a little deducation, can eventually have a conversation with someone who speaks Nihongo (japaneese).

One final note: if your going to be around younger people or more of a modern crowd, I would suggest in investing your money in a Slang dictionary as well; You would just be confused if you listened to some of the younger people today and all you knew was "text-book" japaneese. (a oddly funny example I found that would probibly be used by a 5-6 year old: Babatchii- Icki poo; You won't find that in a standard dictionary, and you would not likely learn it in a class.)

I'm sorry if I mis-spelled any Romanji-ed japaneese words, but I am still learing myself how to do this. As you can see, even my english (primary language) isn't perfect yet

I took 3 comunity college classes on it. and according to my teacher Japanese evolved from Chinese which evolved from Eygyptian Hyroglyphs.

That's only the kanji, not the actual language.

Blombrink- So you learned, by just listening to animes?
you learn a little bit, like me, i've watched ALOT of anime so i have a basic understanding when i watch anime, but i'm FAR from knowing how to speak japanese

I took 3 comunity college classes on it. and according to my teacher Japanese evolved from Chinese which evolved from Eygyptian Hyroglyphs.
WTF? Chinese characters came from hieroglyphs, yes, but they have nothing to do with Egypt.

Yes, I think I don't count then. Because, I have watched these episodes so many times (eight or ten, and I tend to start memorizing the third time...) that I memorize the English captions, turn around, and pair it up with the scene. Yes... I do not think that counts.

You also have to remember if it is subbed, it is interperated japaneese. What you read on the screen and what they say can actually be two seprate things (For instance a charater says "Leaving" (itekimas), the translation that the fansubbers used was I'm going to the park, see you later). They formulate the sentences so that it makes sense in english, but if you translate it back to japaneese, it may not be the same thing.

Yes, some of the obvious things I realize. Because sometimes they say words, and I make a list of all the things I hear, and cross-reference them to analyze and see what is ACTUALLY translated to what, most of the times.

I understand Japanese......just by seeing Anime´s I´ve learned.
But I sure as hell can´t read Japanese.

Lol, you don't understand Japanese :heh:

You also have to remember if it is subbed, it is interperated japaneese. What you read on the screen and what they say can actually be two seprate things (For instance a charater says "Leaving" (itekimas), the translation that the fansubbers used was I'm going to the park, see you later). They formulate the sentences so that it makes sense in english, but if you translate it back to japaneese, it may not be the same thing.
Realize that is the whole point of a translation; a good translator will take the intended meaning in the original language, transfer it to pure meaning in their head, and output the meaning in the target language. Attempts at being faithful to the original language often ruins translations by killing the flow and stiffening the wording.

yep! it very annoying for me to watch jap version with subtitles, and then when I get my hands on the english version (audio) practically every dialogue is different.

Finally got my "Remembering the Kanji I" (James Heisig)... it doesn't look as simple as the kana *unsure*

The English versions... *cringes*

*rocks back and forth* Don't bring up the english dubbing!!! OH SWEET MOTHER OF GOD PLEASE!!!!!!

Hey! the most frequently used kanji list is kinda a good starting point for you self-learners out there. Just start memorzing 1-10 for the first week, and add another 10 the next, and on the third review the 20 kanji that you learned in the previous weeks.

Learning kanji is somewhat useless unless you know the definitions of the words they represent and how to use them in a sentance, of course. Then you get into combining kanji for completely new words, etc. Fun stuff.

Check this out; it's pretty funny.

http://pepper.idge.net/japanese/

It's also pretty old, though.

Man thank god I know Jap =] >.> but...........I'm forgotting a lot of words lately...=( who do I used it with? noone, oh well

im studying japanese right now. Its fairly easy. the only thing u need to do is memorize the alphabet system really well. memorize the grammatic structure really well. and some how crack down on kanji. Also as some on stated that if you are chinese it might back fire on your for studying japanese. For me that has been un true.

Check this out; it's pretty funny. http://pepper.idge.net/japanese/


List of favorate one liners:

->If you combine the Kanji for "small", and "woman", you get the word "carbeurator".

->Politeness depends on many things, such as age of the speaker, age of the person being spken to, time of day, zodiac sign, blood type, sex, whether they are Grass or Rock Pokemon type, color of pants, and so on.

->All Japanese have been taught the same English-language course, which consists of reading The Canterbury Tales, watching several episodes of M*A*S*H, and reading the English dictionary from cover to cover.

->The Japanese even FOLD THEIR DIRTY CLOTHES. (Where the hell did that come from?!)

->There are a few basic type of students that you'll always find yourself running into. These include The Anime Freak, The Know It All, and the Deer Caught In Headlights. (this is so true...)

I actually prefer english dubs to english subs (ducks). I know for some anime its unbearable, like when they alter the plot line through the new dubs or if the dubs just sound annoying, but for most of the stuff I watch I love it. The problem is that the subs are often done by fans or bad translators, and they make no sense a lot of the time, but for a lot of anime (FLCL, Mononoke, Spirited Away) the dubs actually stay true to the original plot and sound pretty good.

Back to the main topic:

Romaji, which is the version of japanese with english characters (actual japanese uses a completely different set of characters), is actually kind of easy to learn. Google for a site along the lines of learnjapanese.com or something (I'm behind my school's firewall right now, itd be worthless for me to try). Its a bunch of free lessons in romaji, complete with quizzes and everything. I took them for a while over the summer, but had to quit for school.

Lol, you call them English letters while they're not XD

Romaji = Latin alphabet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romaji

Learning Japanese with just romaji is useless unless the only thing you're learning it for is going on holidays there. With romaji you might be able to speak it (although a lot of people don't even pronounce Japanese words right ) but not write it. Japanese hardly uses romaji, it's all kana and kanji.

I actually prefer english dubs to english subs (ducks). I know for some anime its unbearable, like when they alter the plot line through the new dubs or if the dubs just sound annoying, but for most of the stuff I watch I love it. The problem is that the subs are often done by fans or bad translators, and they make no sense a lot of the time, but for a lot of anime (FLCL, Mononoke, Spirited Away) the dubs actually stay true to the original plot and sound pretty good.

Back to the main topic:

Romaji, which is the version of japanese with english characters (actual japanese uses a completely different set of characters), is actually kind of easy to learn. Google for a site along the lines of learnjapanese.com or something (I'm behind my school's firewall right now, itd be worthless for me to try). Its a bunch of free lessons in romaji, complete with quizzes and everything. I took them for a while over the summer, but had to quit for school.

I tried Google-ing "learnjapanese.com" and this came up: http://learnjapanese.com/eflp.php?pid=12843&D=176496&C=56944&domain=learnjapanese.com&V=9066&K=learn+japanese&K2=

But then, everything they have on there is just sort of advertising software and things.

any up on this? I made a blog putting all my knowledge in japanese language

check it.. and tell me what you think.. :)

funwithnihongo.blogspot.com

Yeah, you should really read the rules on advertisements, and even so, the website that was listed didn't exist.

the best way is to get someone else to learn it with you.

there is no substitute for having someone else to speak with in the target language.

also, for people who learn japanese from anime, that says to me that you only want to learn it so you dont have to learn the subtitles. well the cold hard truth for those people is learn to live with the subtitles because you wont learn japanese just from watching a load of anime and seeing which words you can understand.

Yeah, you should really read the rules on advertisements, and even so, the website that was listed didn't exist.

can't find anything on advertisements.. send me the link please..

Japanese is so tricky, especially with Kanji. There will be couple of words that sound the same, but are written differently, like Koito. You can pronounce it as "ko-ito" in which the "ko" is written like "small" and "ito" could mean different things, and such, or you can pronounce it as "ko-i-to" which is "famous beginning" It all matters in how you write it in kanji.

Well at the moment I attempt reading raw manga ^_^ Anything I don't understand gets taken to my friend (who is native) and he helps me figure it out. So far I've noticed an improvement...

^ Yeah, that's the best way. Especially if the manga has hiragana next to the kanji, that way you'll know what word it is. Those help the most. >_<

A good manga for furigana (and what I'm reading at the moment) is Yamato Nadeshiko Shichihenge, better known as Wallflower, My Fair Lady or Perfect Girl Evolution (I think?).
The dialogue is easy to follow and the lines aren't particularly difficult. Its target audience is highschoolers but it's a romantic, action, horror, comedy so it's good for everyone.

Most manga aimed at highschool audiences have furigana also - so there's a lot to choose from. Having the manga pictures with the dialogue also helps with the translation.

I'm not sure where to purchase Japanese Raw Manga (you can probably always find a scanlation group for them), but I find Kinokuniya to be wonderful and they do mail order. ^_^

And yah to agree with Angelic and Inu at the very beginning of this thread, I know someone who speaks lots of Chinese and whenever I mention Japanese words they're like, "What???"

Japanese and Chinese sounds quite different. I think it is easier for Korean to learn Japanese, I suspect most of them do learn Japanese, at least from Korean dramas.

Korean and Japanese are both from the Mongolian language family. That's why there are several words that sound alike and do mean the same thing.

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Korean and Japanese are both from the Mongolian language family. That's why there are several words that sound alike and do mean the same thing.

I find that odd since the Japanese did take the pronunciation from the various dynasties (of China) at different times in history.

Ok; I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but as it's a thread about studying Japanese, I'm assuming people who post here actually do.
Anyway, I just wanted someone to tell me if there's anything wrong with this;



始めまして。　私は　　と　申します。　ಌ　の　二年生　がくぶです。
今　あじあ　学　とけいざいがく　を　べんきょうしています。
とても　面白いけど　きまつ　しけん　は　むずかしいです。　まだ　しけん　に　おちませんで すが　時々 けいざいがく　のとっぴく　分かりません。はい、　えとう。。　

四年　前　日本　に　いた時　友達と　やくそく　を　しました。　「日本　に　また　行きたいですね。」と 　言うこと　しましたから　日本語　を　習うこと　に　しました。
私も　日本　の　文化　が　好きです。　さど　とか　きゅうどう　とか　いろいろ　物　に　ついて　習いた い　と　思いますね。だから、せんこう　は　日本語.....

It's not finished, but it's part of a self introduction. I know I haven't said half of the things I'm supposed to, like hobbies, age, origin ect. But I've used some structures I'm not a 100% postive are correct, like こと　に　しました. I know する is also used for it. But I can't remember if しました means that I have decided, or someone has decided for me? Anyone? Thanks.

Oh! And if anyone doesn't understand (as I may be breaking a forum rule here), PM me and I'll send translation ect. ^_^

PS: I used hiragana instead of katakana for some words (because I'm too lazy to change the IME when I don't need to submit a written copy).

しました can mean both ways. It could mean someone already did something for you or you have already done it. I've read it and there are a few grammer mistakes but it's minor, but everything else seems good. Well done! :D

xpeed
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Korean and Japanese are both from the Mongolian language family. That's why there are several words that sound alike and do mean the same thing.

I find that odd since the Japanese did take the pronunciation from the various dynasties (of China) at different times in history.

Yeah, and they changed the pronunciation to fit the Japanese syllable system (of 60-something in Japanese compared to 700-something in Chinese)

It's the on- and kun-reading. But language is way more than just how to pronounce a word, and the grammar of Japanese is much closer to other languages than Chinese. In fact,they share no grammar.

From starmouth's passage, I can only loosely guess: Start self? mouth (word that don't make sense alone) 2nd year student, today learn noodle white. Four years ago, japanese learn. Japanese culture practice and think. Japanese...

That is how different Chinese is from Japanese. :D

Well....uhhhh... she's a 2nd year student, and she learns Japanese, lol. Other than that *shrugs*

That's it vaguely..although I don't remember noodle or white coming into it...XD

she's 2nd year student studying asian studies(?) and economics. she finds it really interesting but the end of term exams are hard. she hasnt failed an exam yet but sometimes she doesnt understand the topics in economics.

four years ago she arranged to go to Japan with friends *unsure if that's right*. she wanted to go again so she decided to learn Japanese. she's also interested in Japanese culture. *didnt understand next sentence*

therefore her major subject is Japanese

thought id give it a try as i have to do translations in my June exam

Yep! Cept I said promised, not arranged. The sentence you didn't understand was probably me talking about the Tea Ceremony and Archery ^_^ Otherwise = you hit it dead on~

Yeah, and they changed the pronunciation to fit the Japanese syllable system (of 60-something in Japanese compared to 700-something in Chinese)

It's the on- and kun-reading. But language is way more than just how to pronounce a word, and the grammar of Japanese is much closer to other languages than Chinese. In fact,they share no grammar.

true but some words are still pronounced the same (ie: moutain, three,be calm) and the definition is still the same to all the kanji words.