Edit:

I guess it's about time for me to write a better introduction about my music~

Well, I have composed for a little more than three and a half years. I started with very little knowledge about music, but as I was composing, I realized there were so much more I had to learn, so I dedicated myself to various topics in music. At some point, I realized my music started to become satisfying with very basic techniques, but at the same time, I realized that through music, I discovered that it's more than just notes and tones. Music started to have messages, ideas and morals at this time. But being me (I'm quite idiosyncratic), I thought that I should take my music beyond the normal level of 'a message' or 'an emotion'. I didn't know what to do then, but eventually, I realized my musical philosophy (yes, I made a thread about this). "I do not want to convey an emotion or a story to the audience of a piece, in fact, I want them to create their own stories and emotions through my music." Yes, it seems to be quite a challenging thing to achieve, so I guess that's why I pursue this philosophy as my motivation to music.

Aside from just being 'philosophical' about music, I can also be quite technical. My favourite thing to do when writing music is orchestrating. To me, orchestration is like colouring a picture. I don't really care about all the outlines and details of the picture, but I felt that colour of the picture is the most attractive thing, so thus I felt that orchestration is my priority when writing music. Of course, melodies and harmonies are also important, but without these colours, they can't be as vibrant as they could be.

My main influences are impressionistic, modern, and some medieval music. I am not too much of a fan of baroque, classical or romantic because these music are too restricted in form, structure and various musical elements.

If you are a first time visitor of my thread, please don't just browse through my first few compositions. Please actually go to the end and listen to my newest works for they relate to what I've said more than the old pieces due to the fact that I am constantly improving in composition.

I hope you'll enjoy my music, if not, at least you can have a better understanding of me~

Edit: Now that I look back at my composer's timeline (yes, I do keep one), my composition career was longer than I thought it was.

This is a good song Real enjoyable to me. Somewhere in the beginning A slight part on the left hand I didnt like. But the more I got into the song the more interesting parts I thought came in with the melody and the chord progression. The ending chord seemed a bit odd, but Overall It is a real nice job with this piece. :)

I loved this song. ^.^ Especially the intro.

Silhouette

Cool song! Suits the name perfectly. And the most amazing part is you actually spelled silhouette right!:D

I liked the title too. The beginning caught me immediately with the fast parallell arpeggios. However, as I listened to it I felt that it went from hero to zero. It gradually went worse from there. First I thought you would introduce a melody with the left hand (yes, left hand) that would be accompanied by right hand arpeggios. So that kind of let me down :/

Well...I liked the chord progression, but the melody didn't follow it very well, and besides, the melody was kind of boring... then at about 1/3 of the way through it gets too layered...

ahaha Everyone listen at 2.29, ahaha off-topic. :shifty:
So you are recording this song live ? :heh:

I don't think that he will, since he believes that it will break off pianists' fingers XD

Thanks for all your comments, I really appreciate them :) .
Okay, here's two new songs, Waltz (in both string quartet and the arrangement for flute, clarinet, alto sax, violin, trombone and piano), and Serenade (it's called Untitled in the file thing though).

Lol, is that an MSN sound at 02:51 on Silhouette? XD

Unfortunately, I think it is...x_x

Now that I think of it.. Silhoutte is actually pretty damn good. Probably one of the best I've heard in a long time here on Ichigos. I can't put my finger on it, but the complexity of the middle parts make sense, and well.. I enjoyed it after listening to it for a couple of times.

I liked Silhoutte. It was somewhat different unlike your new compositions. I thought Valse was too slow and when I heard Waltz I thought it was pretty cliche and Untitled was pretty good. It was flowing very smoothly and I liked the fact you kept it long unlike me. Mine are usually barely over 3 minutes. I think for Untitled.. you should add a drum set or something.

I liked the title too. The beginning caught me immediately with the fast parallell arpeggios. However, as I listened to it I felt that it went from hero to zero. It gradually went worse from there. First I thought you would introduce a melody with the left hand (yes, left hand) that would be accompanied by right hand arpeggios. So that kind of let me down :/

I kinda have to agree with Noir on the beginning transition of the piece - the built-up tension gets dissolved too quickly with the slower awkward part. The arpeggios kinda remind me of Chopin's 1st Etude, Opus. 10. It sounded like you were descending them diatonically, as that diminished sounding arpeggio didn't really sound appropriate in my opinion. Actually, the whole piece sounds like it's a diatonic descending progression (with variations of course on the melodic parts, but still rhymthically and harmonically static), which isn't necessarily bad, but it does start to feel repetitive since that's the bulk of the piece. Also, his is more of production problem, but you really should vary the velocity (and tempo here and there) of the piano notes more - actually, it might just be your piano sample - the piece sounds very, very mechanical. If your sequencer has a humanizing function, that might also be helpful.

The Valse/Waltz pieces sound like imitative efforts which don't quite get to an authentic level. The main problem is that the melody doesn't flow very well, especially since there is a pseudo-resolution after the first five bars, and the next part start off very similar to the first part - sort of like false starts. Actually, for the majority of that section, it seems like the melody keeps trying to start, but keeps resolving before it feels really finished (if that makes any sense - it's a bit hard for me to explain, but I guess basically the flow not very smooth). The Untitled piece shows more promise, but though it has more variation on a physical level, psychoacoustically it still feels very similar throughout the entire piece. I think a more dynamic take on the structure would've made it more interesting.

You're talented, and the only thing I really don't like is the sound quality, but of course, that's not your fault, so keep going! ;)

@Sp1st: If you're referring to Chopin's etude in C major, it uses a totally different technique than this one.

Yeh, the arpeggios in that one are somewhat more complex, but I was also referring to how the harmony progresses - it just reminded me a lot of the Chopin piece.

silhoutte was good
but could use voilin accompaniment :)

A violin? :huh:

I haven't posted a new song for such a long time, and now it's time to post another one! Okay, this song is called the "Lamentful Christmas", it's suppose to describe a lonely and dark Christmas eve and each part of each instrument is meant to do some effects... (Like the touch fourth harmonics for the violins are meant to describe snow because of the glassy feel it gives...) Also, this is the first piece that I ever used Garritan Personal Orchestra sounds with, so please bare with the terrible voluming. ^^' Furthermore, this piece is meant to be performed by some of my fellow students in a future concert, so please give some advice on how to perform and perfect or just some criticisms, thanks.

wow! i thought that was really nice, it definitely reflected the title, and the tune was quite memorable. here goes: the only criticism i have is that the ?violin? that comes in at about 00:35 drowns out the melody at that time, which is strong enough without the violin. you could take it out, or just make it quieter... just my opinion on a great piece!

EDIT/ oh, i just read your post that says you had voluming trouble, so you forget what i said about that violin part, maybe when you get to grips with the software you'll iron it out perfect!^_^

Kinda boring at first, but it gets pretty good.

But I don't know, something seems wrong with it. Ooh, and I love the violin. It's prettyful. :) It sounds kinda like BG Music for a movie. It didn't really scream out, "Christmas!" to me, though. :think:

Thanks for both of your comments. :)

@ Marlon: Lol, it's suppose to not sound too Christmas-like in the jolly way, because I tried to convey the mood of a lonely and empty Christmas. I also think I know why it's kind of awkward, I think it's because some parts of the music aren't recorded properly because what I asked for in my score is too much for the samples of GPO... So yeah... Because the high violin harmonics should've came in with the instruments, after the piano and bell introduction, but it didnt' play because it went out of the GPO sample's range... So yeah... ^^'

great job! the only thing i´ve got against it is the chord progression its a little worn out dont you think?... but hey it works nicely!

Here's a new song... I didn't know what to call it until I realized the spring contest thing... :heh: So I might perhaps enter the contest with this song... But perhaps I will post it here first so people can have a listen and comment about it? :\

Metamorphosis of Spring (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QKVGDRZ2)

after 1,5 minutes it got nice you should remodel the first part cause its seriously a pain to listen to. after that you should enter it in the competition!:)

after 1,5 minutes it got nice you should remodel the first part cause its seriously a pain to listen to. after that you should enter it in the competition!:)

:heh: Sorry I didn't make myself quite clear; I actually was 'inspired' by that minimalistic/atonal or whatever part, and it represents the end and the darkest part of winter, and slowly and stately, it evolves into a more 'agreeable' spring mood.

well in that case it works caus winter is a pain in the ass...

Here's another rather old/revised song. It was originally called Spring Painting, but now that I think about it, I don't really like the title, so therefore, title-lessly, I shall temporarily call it a Bagatelle for Oboe and Piano in G Major. This piece is rendered to show the oboe's playful and elegant characteristic, but other than that, it does not have much other meanings.

Sorry for the double post.

I have an incomplete new piece that I am having trouble with. The problem/question is: do you think the piece is too 'overdone' (like as in too complex/detailed/overcoloured)? I need some advice quick, because I intended to make a CD of a collection of my compositions for my teachers as an end of year gift. Thanks.

These songs, in my opinion, are very good. I especially enjoyed Bagatelle. The only thing I really didn't like in Silhouette was the glissandos (is that even what they're called?).

Keep it up. I like these pieces a lot. ^_^

I have started this piece a while ago, and it took me more than a month to group, generate and get inspired with ideas.. But anyways, this is an orchestral piece with the instrumentation of: Flutes, oboes, Bb Clarinets, bassoons, 8 Horns, 4 trumpets, 1 timpani, 1 glockenspiel, 2 staves of percussion (mainly bass drum, snare, sleigh bells, wind chimes and triangle), a celesta, a harp, and the string orchestra. This piece was actually my first 'full' orchestral piece, and I played a lot of mixing and meshing the sounds (especially the woodwinds, as you'll hear after 1:44, where I swapped the melody around in the woodwind section). There are some mistakes in all the voluming and stuff (I am horrible at typing all those ~C1,50 stuff in as they change like every bar). Also, this piece has no name, it would be nice if you have any suggestions.:) Finally, if you hear anything wrong or whatever, tell me. Thanks. ;) :) Enjoy.... I hope.

~PS. Argh! The file is too big, so please download this file from the link below:
http://rapidshare.de/files/22232250/Orchestral_Piece.wma.html

Wow, I love it! You've got some awesome orchestrating skills and I love the instrument combinations!^.^ I like the themes a lot, beautful progressions. I really enjoyed the section from around 1:43 to 3:26, and, ooooooh, the harp at 3:27 on is very pretty. The transition into the next section was okay with the fade out, but it probably could have gone a little better. There are a million other places I could say, "Wow, I loved that!" but I would basically just be taking every part of the song and commenting on it, because it is almost all great.

Amazing job again, I loved it! Most transitions were great, but there were one or two that stuck out a little...Awesome!!! (I like 6:15 also)

Ps: This is probably in my top two favorite compositions here at the moment, but I am always changing my mind. XD

Download doesn't work for me >__> I really want to listen too, since I'm also composing for an orchestra.

Aw... Wait, let me try to upload it on Putfile or somewhere else... =\ Here's the link: http://media.putfile.com/Orchestral-Piece

Wow, nice job!

Must be one of the best things I've heard on Ichigo's. It's so... purely AWESOME!

I agree with marlon. It sounds professional.

I love the percussive and background instruments. It really puts it together. I love the little sections with the selected instruments! It definately sounds "professional" in my taste. (Great soundFonts by the way).

From listening to it so far, and you wanting a title for it.. I might have to suggest something along the lines of these little phrases or words :

"Thoughts"
"Long Road Ahead"
"Looking Back"
"Her"
"Truth"
"Justice & Prosperity"
"Ballad of Love"
"Lightness"
"Bright Skies of Yesterday"
"Morning in Happy Times of the Dreams we once had" (Probably my favorite one so far)
"Theme of ----"
"----'s Theme"

I guess that's all I could think up-hope I was there to help you for your title. Maybe one will inspire your own.

^^ Thanks everyone for such kind comments. And thanks, Maestro for so many helpful suggestions, I will look into adding the title soon. Thanks again, everyone! =D

2 thumbs up !!!! ^^

@ Sumrscent: Thanks! ^^

Ok, so I've been composing lately and I finished another one called The Giving Tree (which I originally meant for it be a prelude of my The Giving Tree suite, but for now it's just a random song that uses the theme of the poem The Giving Tree:heh: ). For those who doesn't know the poem 'The Giving Tree' by Shel Silverstein, it is about a tree and a boy. The Tree loves the boy very much, and fufills every possible wish the boy desires such as letting the boy take the tree's fruits and selling it and etc... At first, the boy's wishes were simple, but as he grew, he needed more and more and until he took everything away from the tree (aside from the tree's stump). And one day, both the boy and tree were old, the tree told the boy: I cannot give you any more, as you have taken away my everything, but I am glad, because you were happy.

This song consist of clarinet (which represents the boy), an alto flute (which represents summer), a cello (which represents the tree) and an accompanying keyboard/harp instrument (and I chose harp for a more serene atmosphere). The file that I uploaded has two parts: a WMA file and a PDF. The PDF file has the score and the lyrics, and I put lyrics because I wanted to enter this piece in the composition contest, but the lyrics itself is pretty horrible:heh: as I have never tried composing a song with lyrics... Anyways, enjoy, and comment! ^_^

Very serene, but it sounds kind of blurry =S

Yea, I love it much, but the reverb (at times) seems a little too distorted (or blurry, which ever).

XD Ah, ok, so I shouldn't have used the 'Recital Hall' mode for the reverb... I guess it'll be fixed if I changed the reverb to none or something not as 'blurry'. Thanks guys! =]

Sorry for the double post~

Hello fellow composers/musicians, ;)
I've started my second serious orchestral work. This time it's a concerto for the koto, but the tuning and koto I use for this composition is not the Japanese one, instead I chose the Chinese koto as I used to play it and have more knowledge about the tuning, fingerings, range and etc...:heh: Also, I am trying to make it sound oriental yet majestic, 'dolce', dolorous and somewhat mysterious. If you have heard 'Itsuwareru Eien' from XXXholic the movie, you'll get the 'feel' that I'm attempting to do. This time, I expanded the ensemble greatly, the orchestra includes: piccolo, flute, oboe, English horn, clarinet in Bb, Bass clarinet, bassoon, 4 horns, trumpets, trombone, tuba, 2 percussion staves, a wind machine, glockenspiel, grand symphonic marimba, celesta, harp, a female choir (2 soprani, 1 mezzo-soprano, 1 alto), the string section and of course, the solo koto.

This is just the opening of the concerto, this part was designed to show the audience the texture of the koto and make them remember it because after this solo part, I will make use of the orchestra more than the koto itself (as I'm more interested in playing with textures of the orchestra anyway:heh:). But right now, I have two concerns; do you think it's a little to empty for an opening or what? Because I feel there's something missing... And my second concern is whether the next part should be a more maestoso/elegant part or a more 'tearful'/dolorous part?

I am going make this concerto have about 3-4 movements depending on what I do to the first movement. The first movement (this one) is Maestoso Lacrimoso, and I plan to show the main theme(s) here and perhaps variate and/or create a compliment of it in the other movements. The second movement should be Elegante Doloroso (all though I know it's no a tempo marking, but bleh :heh: ) with many themes repeated/variated in a weaker and more tender manner. The third movement should be Andantino Grandioso, and it's as fast as it gets :heh: and this is the fantasia for the themes and I might add some more agitated motives and etc... to it. Finally, movement four, the restatement is Molto Maestoso con Molto Espressione, I plan for it to be very grand and powerful in a slow yet stately manner. And that's it... yeah :heh: I might change my mind though....


Thanks ;)

Edit: ARGH! there's msn noises in it... just ignore it <_<

Work on it; I think it's building up nicely. The MSN noises we're kinda funny, since the first two actually sounded like parts of the song. XD Good job!

Yea, they did.

Great start.

Thanks for the encouragements, guys. ;) But I don't have any more 'inspiration' toward that beginning... So I guess I'll start over again... :\ Or maybe not... I don't know... I'll think over it... XD But I ran out of ideas for that the moment... so yeah...x_x

But despite the 'idealessness', I got a random little tune and wrote it down, and I thought it was kinda nice... So yeah, it's called Serenade in Gb Major and I used the Electric Piano samples from Kontakt 2 which magically worked (it doesn't usually, because this thing is filled with bugs and error, I should have bought another sampler instead of this... <_<). So yeah... Enjoy, or whatever... :)

first off-the koto concerto:
really nice..except for the msn noises XD
the serenade was really nice. sounded like a lullaby...it would be neat to hear it with harp...
what program do you use to compose?

Thanks. ^^ I use Sibelius 3 with either Garritan Personal Orchestra or Kontakt 2 for sampling and stuff... But I am still in the dark working with Kontakt 2, but once I think once I get a sequencing program, it'll be easier.

I like Serenade in Gb! Very soothing. ^_^ evafreek576 was right, it does sound like a lullaby. :)

I don't think so. I think it sounds like something from a gameboy game from a small town that you would go to.

The previous one, the Koto Concerto, sounded pretty good. How do you record your songs though? Does Sibelius 3 not have a way to directly record .wav/.mp3 file from Kontakt or GPO? I know Finale 2006 does, so that's why I ask. If the problem is just converting to mp3 or something, just use iTunes, or download a freeware program called Switch.

I don't think so. I think it sounds like something from a gameboy game from a small town that you would go to.

The previous one, the Koto Concerto, sounded pretty good. How do you record your songs though? Does Sibelius 3 not have a way to directly record .wav/.mp3 file from Kontakt or GPO? I know Finale 2006 does, so that's why I ask. If the problem is just converting to mp3 or something, just use iTunes, or download a freeware program called Switch.

Well, the reason that I can't directly record the concerto from Sibelius 3 was because I had to use the MIDI soundfont for the koto bank (I don't have any fancy samples for the koto, unfortunately:heh: ) so I can't use the record function of the GPO as it will only record GPO sounds. As for the Kontakt samples... Well, Kontakt is a sampler, meaning it only 'reads', 'programs' and 'plays' the sounds but does nothing else, meaning to record the playing with the sound, I'll need some recording software (that's why people tend to buy sequencing programs like Home Studio and stuff first, so they can accurately manipulate the sounds, record appropriately and stuff, but I was stupid and thought I can do all that on Sibelius, so I didn't bother:heh:). And I use my soundcard to record all these stuff, except for pieces that only uses GPO sounds, because GPO has its own record function.

I hope that answered you questions. ;)

Eh, I was just trying to help, so it doesn't really matter.

Loved the Serenade in G- Flat.

Made me feel good. :)

koto...that MSN noise did come from the song! I was minimizing my pages cause I didn't see any messages in my bar. Took me a while to realize it was from the song too ahaha!

Since I TOTALLY deleted that idea for koto concerto (for various reasons), I have little inspirations for the 'main portions' of it, so now I am more focused on the appetizers, and desserts :P (preludes, interludes and postludes), and right now I have finished a short interlude for oboe solo, with or without accompaniment, but I added accompaniment for a little more direction on how I wanted it to sound. Also, it also goes into a slightly atonal section... Which I don't know if it's fitting or not. So may I present you Koto Concerto Interlude #1: Meditation (for solo oboe). ;)

http://rapidshare.de/files/25862780/Meditation.wma.html

~Sorry for the double post~

Is the download not working? :\ If it is, someone, tell me~! But anyways... I messed around with a few old pieces and did some random stuff to random ideas... :unsure: So yeah, here's a really old piece, Nameless, and an unsuccessful concertino (and yes, one of the orchestral piece's theme was recycled from this :P), and the two random ones are Jack and Ginny (a ragtime for my friends and her sibling... so blah...), and one really random idea (originally, it was meant to be a more fugual piece... but I failed... :heh: ). So yeah, there you have it, another four pieces... :whistle:

Yes, the link is working (at least for me :mellow: ).

Hmmm... Let's see, Koto Concerto Interlude #1: Meditation was O.K. The melody didn't like really "wow" me. Nameless was very nice. It's very calming. ^_^ The concertino: Well, I actually liked it. LoL. :lol: Some of the instruments sounded a bit loud or something, but that was probably because it was a MIDI. ;) The other two... Well, they're a little bit random. :\ I preferred Jack and Ginny of the two, anyways.

OH MY GOD!!! Your piece, "nameless.mp3" has the exact same chords as a piece I'm writing right now. IV7, III7, II7, I7, the only difference was that my melody was slower than yours (Due to less notes) but it was practically like hearing the piece I've been working on with violins and added instruments. x_x

Good thing we differ in the middle or I would have flipped inside out!:sweat:

XD Oh my goodness~! Someone who composes like me~!

And more comments on my Meditation, please... Because it's my first atonal-esque/full Oriental approach piece... :heh:

Edit: :heh: *bored* Fun fact: By the way, Nameless was supposedly to be a canon originally, but out of a certain request, I added a violin melody to it, and I also modified the original violin part to compliment the melody. Also, all those fun chromatic elements and glisses were originally to torture... *AHEM* enhance the 'less' entertain canon part for the violinists (as this was one of the piece to nominated to be performed last Christmas, but we performed another piece of mine, :whistle: so yeah...).

I can't comment on Meditation because parental controls stops me from dowloading the file. Nameless was pretty at first, but the endlessly repeating chord pattern got a little bit annoying after a while. The sliding instruments were cool, though. Either less length or a change in keys or something would be appreciated by the tired ear of the listener, in my opinion.

XD Ah yes, repeating chord progressions do get annoying, no wonder Pachelbel's Canon was successful, it never gets annoying! =PBack then, I was trying to imitate the effect of Pachelbel's canon, so yeah... :heh:

Edit: Maybe I'll try to upload Meditation here... :think:

Aha! It makes sense. I should have seen it. Canons kind of bore me, though, but that's ok.

Yupyup, due to the lack of comments on the Meditation (I need comments because I want to make the concerto as good as possible, being a semi-perfectionist who's lazy...), I've finally got out of my laziness and uploaded the MP3 version of it... (I didn't do that before because my internet is extra slow, and it'll take half hour just to upload a small file here... but WMA was smalller..) But anyways, *restates* Meditation is one of the interlude for my concerto, for solo oboe and with or without an accompaniment. It has a slight atonal part, mainly oriental style, based on pentatonic scale and considered the 'grammar' of Chinese music and all that... Mreh, basically: just another piece. :lol:

OK, I'll comment when I'm done vacuuming as an edit to this post.

The piano accompaniment was a little lacking in depth. Such as around the 1:00 mark. The melody reminds me of a mix between Oriental works and works by Gershwin. At 2:22, It seemed to me there needed to be something underneath. I assume you meant to have a nice pause after that, which I liked, just not with the lone oboe right *before* it.

Edit: oops, I meant to edit the post above...sorry for double posting.

Yay, finally a comment XD , but anyways, I totally agree with you about everything you said... XD *Smacks self and says to self: See what I mean? I told you that you shouldn't have put a 'light' accomapniment...* Anyways, I shouldn't have put an accomapaniment... But being a moron of me, I thought adding the progression underneath would 'clarify' the piece more, but I guess putting too little won't work for the audience, but putting too much will ruin the essence of solo meditation... XD So yeah, thanks sooooooo much for your comment. :)

PS: ;) I guess I can't sneak work undone after all... XD

Overall, I enjoyed the piece; it was very soothing. My biggest concern, though, was at 2:13 - that little part sounded way too random. :\ Other than that, it had quite a soothing effect over me. ^_^

Overall, I enjoyed the piece; it was very soothing. My biggest concern, though, was at 2:13 - that little part sounded way too random. :\ Other than that, it had quite a soothing effect over me. ^_^

Ah yes... That part... XD To be a little more technical, it was to return to the tonal part, because before that part, there was a B flat (which shouldn't be there), but then to get back what should be there (a b natural), I had to do something that's legible... Well, maybe it was a little too random :think:, but I think I can pass unnoticedly :whistle: :shifty: by call it atonal, but meh, basically, it's purpose was to get my from an B flat to B natural (secret: and on the score, I even added quarter flats and stupid stuff, thank goodness it didn't sound :heh: :shifty: )... :heh: Thanks for your comment, add on, and yeah... :lol:

I liked everything but the ending. I think it needs to be justified in a way that lets us know that it's coming.

:unsure: Just when I was in my valley of lack of inspiration (last night), I randomly found an idea!^.^ So yeah, basically, I have a new part to my concerto. This time, it's another interlude, and it's a siciliano (siciliana or sicilienne, however you call it and if you don't know what it is, it's a dance in 6/8 or 12/8 time, but in my case, I chose 12/8). Instead of a solo this time, this uses the string ensemble, solo violin 1, solo violin 2, solo viola and solo cello and the koto itself. In the recording, you'll sometimes find the koto 'somewhat' out of place, it's because the two sets of soundfonts are different, so they don't cooperate well... x_x So yeah, basically, enjoy, and comments, criticisms are welcome.

PS: I am gonna make a list of the pieces of my concerto here... So yeah..

Koto Concerto

1. Prelude
2. First Movement
3. Interlude I: Meditation (http://forums.ichigos.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2556&d=1153421301)
4. Second Movement
5. Interlude II: Siciliano (http://media.putfile.com/Koto-Concerto---Interlude-II---Siciliano)
6. Third Movement
7. Interlude III: Adagio (http://forums.ichigos.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2706&d=1154893567)
8. Fourth Movement
9. Postlude

Sometimes the changes from the single shamisen to all the other ones is too drastic, in my opinion. Also, a few parts seemed a bit random. It's a decent song, but nothing really grabbed my attention.

Keep working on it; I think it has potential. :)

Sometimes the changes from the single shamisen to all the other ones is too drastic, in my opinion. Also, a few parts seemed a bit random. It's a decent song, but nothing really grabbed my attention.

Keep working on it; I think it has potential. :)

Hm... I think what you mean about the sudden change to koto isn't the composition's fault (in this, I usually used the call and response technique, the koto should play in the same volume as the rest of the ensemble), it's rather the voluming problem... :\ And can you point out which part is random? This piece is structured and centered to one single theme, so it shouldn't be random... Although you might not notice, it's the theme built on fifths and fourths and octaves, so yeah... :think: Please point out which part is random, so I can see what to change and not change...

Pretty much, it's just that, regardless it having a theme, nothing got stuck in my head. x_x It wasn't like a catchy melody or something. :unsure: That's all I meant by randomness, too, as in nothing stuck in my head, so I was caught off guard with the melody sometimes - in the wrong way. I still liked it, despite that; I just think it can use some work. ;)

Ah... :heh: I guess I get what you mean, yeah, it's not a song with too much of a 'remarkable' theme, partially because it's based on oriental stuff (yeah... sometimes, Chinese music are hard to remember... they just go on and on and on and sound like another song...). Thanks anyways~! =D

The oriental feel was well done, I could imagine watching one of those really old asian movies. The orchestration is also great (you seem to have a very good view on a majority of instruments and how they work together). The piece got progressively better from after the beginning (the weak point..), and there's not much I can comment on since I can't find anything wrong with it really, but it's not my cup of tea and so it leaves me unimpressed =\

Perhaps since this is an interlude, it isn't supposed to be as strong and memorable as the main movements?

The whole concerto you're working on seems quite original and fresh though, and even though I've never liked traditional asian music this seems to be a pretty good addition to your concerto.

I got a random idea when I was composing my third interlude for my concerto, although this idea kind of used up my original idea for my interlude and now it doesn't relate to the concerto anymore.. :unsure: But should I continue this though? I have some great ideas I thought of, but it's in a style where I'm not familiar with and all that (esp. with drums and all that)... :\ So yeah, please tell me if I should continue this or something? If so, tell me what I could do... Thanks.

PS: the opening is my favourite chord progression that I usually overuse... ;) :lol:

Hmmm... This is really good! :P Great job, and I have nothing to rant about at the moment. XD Great song! And yes - continue!

Hey, I know that progression! Can't wait till you finish this song, this would probably become my fav song on this forum once you finish! It's the music genre that I love and you've done a fantastic job in it!

The entrance of all the strings after the intro was sort of sudden, and you just sort of left the intro behind without smootly transitioning out of it. The other transitions really sort of rubbed me the wrong way, too, but I can't explain why. Maybe it was that repeated pattern with the harp that you kept using...

The entrance of all the strings after the intro was sort of sudden, and you just sort of left the intro behind without smootly transitioning out of it. The other transitions really sort of rubbed me the wrong way, too, but I can't explain why. Maybe it was that repeated pattern with the harp that you kept using...


Meh, yeah, I'll fix the transitions later, although, the first transition wasn't suppose to 'start' with the violin, under the violin, the ensemble viole (violas) and celli are doing the transition stuff, but I guess the volume is too low and you can't hear it... About the other two, it's most likely the fermatas' faults. Sibelius doesn't know how to give a litle silence after the pause or something, and yeah, the third transition is sloppy and I'm gonna blame it on Sibelius again, just becase it was a fermata on a quarter note, doesn't mean it only pauses for the value of double of that note... x_x Well, yeah, I sort of know that already, but thanks anyways... All though I would like some advice for the drums... :think:

I liked it. The opening was superb if you ask me. The drum parts were fine, although it might be a good idea to add a soft cymbal as an ending @ 1:15. Definately continue on this.

@ Noir7: Thanks for your comment~! ^.^

Well... I haven't finished that other piece because Kontakt 2 died when I tried to update it and the piano, celesta, drums (and I also added a bass track) are from Kontakt 2, so I need to delay that project until Kontakt 2 is fixed. x_x But in the mean time, I composed the real third interlude for my koto concerto. I used solo oboe, solo cello, glockenspiel, various percussions, piano and of course, the lovely string orchestra. The chord progression repeats itself most of the time, but I played with a variety of textures of the instruments, so hopefully it's not going to be boring. Also, you might notice there's a part where the cello plays the little motif from the Meditation. I especially overused the delightful pizzicato effect for harmony as it gives a snowy and light feel to the rather mellow melody line. Also, the transition around 1:34 *seems* a little messy, but it was done on purpose to suddenly change the mood of agitated to the mellower and more elgante part. To me, this entire piece gives the feeling of 'emptiness', not that it is empty XD , but the atmosphere is emptiness...

So yeah, Koto Concerto: Interlude III - Adagio, comments, criticisms and suggestions all welcomed~! ;)

The piece is so soothing, its very impressive. The blend of lively parts with the still relaxed atmosphere is difficult to achiee or so I am finding. Very nice work. I also love how the indivigual parts are very simple (making it playable for any level) and instead of ahrd aprts you used the "chorale" or ensamble approach to get the fullness.

Three thumbs up for the orchestration. I've always said you're the best orchestrator on Ichigos, but you're also one of the most talented composers around here. Sorry, but I don't have much to say about this piece. It's great, and the use of the pizzicato was also well done. The transition you were talking about worked truly well.

Thanks for the encouragements, motivation, compliments and kind comments guys! :cry: I really appreciate them~! And me, best orchestrator in Ichigos? XD :heh: Heh... XD I don't know whether I can take such a huge title... Lol, but I sincerely thank you both for such nice comments.... :)

I don't think you have much of competition... :think: Most people here suck at using even more than 4 instruments in a composition.

Could I ask what program is used to open these files? :think:

Could I ask what program is used to open these files? :think:

:huh: They're all normal MP3s, any media programs should be able to open them.

Wow...

I stand in awe of you, master of music...

*Bows before Sir_Dotdotdot*
How did you write this song? Did you write it out and then got an orchestra to play it for you, or is there a music making program?

I use Sibelius 3 to notate everything and played it back through the samples of Garritan Personal Orchestra and sometimes with Kontakt 2, then I record it with my soundcard or with the record function of GPO.

Geeze, that's awsome. Btw, how old are you, Sir ...?

Thanks, I'm 14 years old. :)

I'm just going to pretend I didn't read that.




:ph34r:

I'm just going to pretend I didn't read that.




:ph34r:


I've seen many many many people that's younger than me and much much much much much more talented than me, so ya, being 14 at my level isn't actually much... :heh: But meh, yeah, lol....... :heh:

Sorry for the double post.

It's finally done! The piece that's totally not my style has arrived. Well, yeah, it's not quite my style cos of the modern drum elements and whatnot... So yeah, basically it's just a more complete and better version of that Dunno What It's Called piece I've posted earlier. Comments, criticisms and whatnot are all welcomed. :)

PS: ARGH!!! =_= It's too big... Well... *Uploads on putfile*

http://media.putfile.com/This-Piece-Does-not-Have-a-name

Excellent piece! :) This song has such great elements to it. The only thing I didn't like were the harp runs... Don't ask me why, I'm not exactly sure, haha. :heh: I loved the melody - it actually stuck to me. Another thing: sometimes the drums would stop too suddenly. I suggest at the end of those parts simply add in a bass drum along with a crash cymbal and just let it ring. ;)

Otherwise, great job, and keep it up! ^_^

Very classical.

Good job, loved pretty much everythig about it-but as Marlon said, the harp runs the only thing off, maybe too loud? Or just too dramatic?

Thanks for the comments. Although I didn't quite find the harp runs being too overdone. :\ Maybe it's just your speakers? Because I found the harp a tad too soft before I toned it up to this level and it works fine with me.

Edit: Well, I've decided to take a break from my koto concerto since I don't have much ideas for it (but I'll definitely come back to it!;)). But during this break I'll fill myself in with another project: (temporary name) Christmas Suite.

I think I already commented the piece in msn, but anyway! Great job :D
Your orchestration skill is top-notch and the melody line isn't lacking either.
Before I fell asleep yesterday, the melody of this song poped up in my mind... talking about memorable ;)
Keep up the good work *thumbs up*

Are you referring to the Adagio or the unnamed semi-modern piece? If you're talking about Adagio, yeah, it's a little too sleepy for a song. :heh: :P Adagio also always popped up in my head when I was at the camp, ill, like 2 weeks ago and I thought I was dying and whatnot, but I was actually infected by some bacteria from the unfiltered lake water that they say it's safe to drink... XP XD But yeah, thanks for your comments and praise! :D

I was talking about the semi-modern one :)
and wtf.. you drank lake water? :heh:

Yes, they used it for tap water and even for teh lemonade, juice and everything they cook with water. x_x 'Cos they said it was the only lake in Ontario (my province) that is drinkable without filtering, but my body is quite sensitive to bacteria, so yeah, I got infected, and it was not fun. :fear:

But back on topic, I've named the 4 pieces for my Christmas Suite (I'm hoping to make it a song cycle, but I might change my mind).

A. Prelude: Lento (http://forums.ichigos.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3027&d=1157837503)
1. Caelesitis (Celestial)
2. Quietus Quies (Subtle Quiet Place) <--- It was supposedly to be Quiet Quiet Place, but heh... :heh:
3. Vivo Conrequiem (Live with Rest)
4. Luxta Equilibrium (Before Equilibrium)
B. Poslude?

So yeah, if I finish one song I'll attach the links to the titles. :)

Ack, sorry for the double post. x_x

Well, I've got started on my Christmas Song Cycle thing, but there's this anticipation note that's bugging me and holding me back, so yeah, it won't be done for at least another while. So out of boredom, I arranged Lilium (theme from Elfen Lied) for orchestra, even though I don't watch the anime, I realllllllllllllllllllllly like this piece, so yeah, it's originally for soprano, piano, and string orchestra, and now I made it for classical orchestra + harp + tubular bells + solo violin. I always thought about arranging this piece for orchestra, but I never got around to do it :P , so yeah, but then this time, I wanted to sharpen my orchestration skills more, so decided to arrange this for orchestra. It took me just 2 days, so it's not as good as it should sound and I played around with a lot of weird doublings (solo violin/oboe, violin 1 and viola in octaves), so yeah. I might consider continuing arranging it if I want to... :think: But I don't know... Hm... And some credits goes to Josh's Anime Sheet Music, as I used the piano version of Lilium for chord and melody reference. :) Finally, guys, comments and criticisms on the orchestration is welcomed, if you don't like the melody/harmony, blame the real version of Lilium. :P XD ;)

PS: I also arranged Lilium for two other ensembles (oboe ensemble and flute ensemble, not oboe quintet and flute quintet), so if you are interested in the sheets, I am able to supply them. ;)

Never heard the song before.. but this version sounds great. The orchestration is good, but there are some notes that could be attacked better. Oh, and at the end I thought you were building up a climax (replaying the melody wit full power) but instead you ended it, that kinda bummed me :/ Nevertheless, good arrangment =]

Thanks Noir7 for listening and commentin! :) Well, I played around with it more this afternoon, and I adding this and that to the arrangement to make it sound more dramatic. So yeah, more criticisms would be welcomed. ;) And if I have time, I might consider lengthening the arrangement, but in the meantime, I'll just play with what I have for now. :P So here you go people: Lilium for Orchestra v. 2. ^_^

Very nice. Around 1:12 it was a little fuzzy though... It was great though, and I liked the ending. It was quite dramatic, and I liked how it just built up. Way to go =D

:unsure: After a long while without inspiration, I finally figured something out for my Christmas Suite... It's for solo organ, and not really long, so I guess it'll be fitting for a prelude or something. It's not better than most of my other pieces, as I didn't put much time onto it, partially because I'm not too familiar with organ... :\ So yeah, here it is: Christmas Suite - Prelude: Lento. ;)

Organ! I liked the parts from the 1 minute marker and up the best. Hm.. the theme kinda repeats itself a lot, but it's not repetetive. (That's a good thing) I don't know much about the organ, but I liked the way you used it. My favourite part was the last 20 seconds, the way you built i up to the ending A minor chord.

I think it holds your standard, but certainly doesn't lift it up higher.

:) Nice. I liked the first two minutes the best, but the last minute sounded a little bit blurry to me... I liked how it was written though, and I usually don't like Organ music, but I liked this one. The ending sounded a little wierd though, it just cut out... But other than that, another great job by Dir_Dotdotdot :lol:

Very nice piece.
@Noir7, Organ can be used in very many ways, it depends on what kind of music it is. If you search for like Billy Joel's songs from his last CD (Famous Last Words, 2000 Years), You'll hear loads of uptempo organ music in there, but there are also songs which just have chords + Melody.

@Sir_dotdotdot
Can you send me the sheets if you have them so I can take a look at them and maybe play them? ^^

Thanks guys for all your kind comments. ;)

PFK: I don't mind sending you the sheets, but let me fix up some little problems here and there first... So give me an hour or so... :heh:

Edit: Never mind, XD the edit took me less than ten minutes... But yeah, there are some impossible parts, since there are huuuuge chords that are like 2 octaves apart, but I guess you can try to cheat on some notes... ;)

Edit 2: Leggo is a friend of mine, so yeah... :heh:

You should all worship Sir Dot's spleen, for it is a royal spleen that has the ability to compose beauties such as this piece...worship. W-O-R-S-H-I-P! ...



Yes...I'm a Dot fan...will be a groupie some day...

Excellent job...*poof*

How should I put this, I didn't not like this piece. But to me, this was one of your less appealing works. I felt that an organ was just awkward for the piece but that's out of my personal BIASED taste. To me, it felt like it lacked in melody.

:think: :\ These two faces really speaks my opinion of the piece.

You either like it or not...

Wow did KK just use a double-negative statement? :O

He did :/

XD This controversy is so confusing, and yes, KK, I do understand why you don't like it, organ is an instrument hard to get used to, there is a very obvious melody, but it's probably the timbre that's getting on you.

Ah... Long time no post... :heh: Well, I have a new composition with an extraordinary name... :P I'm planning to make another piece to match this one, so yeah, expect another composition with similar name sometime soon! XD Well, this is a piano and oboe duet named ' I Saw Snow and Rain When I Woke Upon A Morning Weary While the Nightingale Sings A Lullaby Lulling Me Awake Solitaire'. If you just read the title, it might sound quite abstract (the song itself is pretty abstract too, but meh). Well, to give a more technical summary about it, it's made of multiple parts, it has 2 main themes that repeats, one being tonal and one isn't. It's nearly 5 minutes long, and I sort of tried to imitate movements of late romantic/early impressionistic music, so you might hear that... I also start to go obsessed over writing multiple soli for oboe (when I upload my concerto's Overture, you'll find English Horn soli and oboe soli) :P But other than that, comments, constructive criticisms, suggestions and ideas are all welcomed~!

PS: I might possibly play this as my third piece for my next year's oboe examination! :O

You should make a song for every mood...this one totally goes with mine right now...*huggle* It's beautiful, has a vintage feel to it..somehow...

@_@ "Absract" Style of modernism indeed buddy. :heh:

Anyway, I give this an overall score of 7.5 / 10 -- which in my book is preety nice since I dispise abstract music. I like this because it isn't random, there actually is some melody there and it shows that their is effort into it.

Some of the up then down arpeggios in the piano were odd, and some transitions/chords were a little odd as well, but they were kinda faded out by some melody or bridge there, later on. Hmm, another thing, you did a few phrases where piano octaves and the oboe play the same notes, I would suggest you have the piano do chords (not octaves) under the melody, but have the highest note in the piano's right hand.. the melody note--you get what I mean't already probably.

Hope this helps. Ask for more if you want me to pick it apart more. ;)

Thanks! :D Finally a criticism! Well yeah, the octaves, that was always bugging me at times, but I sort of wanted a 'ping' behind the oboe... XD But I guess it's personal preference. Yes, it's abstract, but at least it's tonal! XD

It's almost impressionistic in some parts. If you just took out a bit of ornamentation, I think it would work well. The oboe from circa 1:45-2:10 as from about 2:45-3:05. The intersection between those didn't fit with the rest of the song for me, though. I'm not sure what to say about that.

The dreamy introduction was pretty sweet, and so was the following chromatics. The oboe/piano mix didn't work at all times though. There were times when the piano kind of overshadowed the oboe, and not because of its velocity. And ah... the 1:30 arpeggios are to die for :P I loved those, you should've used them more! They had that 'Zelda'-feel to them. You used a few weird modulations, but they worked in the end. The 3:07 melody was great also, especially the 3:16 note! There's something with your composing that always draws up my attention. Those 'little' things which you always include in your composing. I find this piece as a whole to be pretty mediocre, but at certain times it is astonishing. Because of this, the song gives me a very weird feel when I listen to it. Neat ending.

This thread needs to be revived! *Poof*
Yay!
~~~

Yup, Christmas is right around the corner! So yeah, the first movement of my Christmas piece thing is done... I've decided to not use the titles I set... For various reasons. The pause around 3:19 was meant to be longer, but cos of technical reasons, I couldn't get it to hold, but other than that, I think there aren't many other technical problems. The instruments I used for this piece are flute, oboe, Bb clarinet, glockenspiel, wind chimes, sleigh bells, bass drum, piano, solo violin, violin Sections, viola section, cello section, and contrabass section.

http://media.putfile.com/Christmas-First-Movement

Criticisms, comments, whatever are all welcomed. :]

I....I love it :cry: It makes my soul want to see snow...^_^

Thanks L... I mean Seymourgirl. XD

~~~

I've also found out that some of you couldn't listen through the link... So I decided to upload it here! :D

Very nice. A Job well done! There is not much that I can say negative about this piece. From listening to the piece, though, I believe that I didn't really hear much phraseing/slurs used. I felt that the piece could have used more of it, especially in the string section. I really liked the use of dynamics and the change to different styles through out the piece. From what I can tell, it is a hit! Can't wait to hear the rest of the movements! ^_^

Thanks Porsche! Yes, I usually don't put in phrase markings cos I find them annoying for the conductor and performers as you never know when to do what articulations and whatnot, so I assume people would understand where the phrases start and ends. :P But thanks so much anyways~! ^^

That's a lonely christmas. Was your intro taken from symphony 9 of Beethoven? That trill around 1:38 was really awkward. There's also a spooky atmosphere to this song that I really liked. How did you get the glissando chime sound? I liked your instruments, the solo violin was just what it needed.

Great song SirDot =) and I don't know the hell this song can be associated with Beethoven's 9th Symphony... :unsure:

No, it's totally not associated with anything from Beethoven... ._. I highly doubt any classicist would use my progression, as it's quite contemporary. And how is the trill weird? I know the attack on that note is a little accented, but other than that, there's nothing wrong with it...

PS: I use samples, that's why I have instruments that MIDI doesn't have, and wind chimes is one of them.

You use finale right? (Unless I'm getting mixed up with Deathraider here).

I use Sibelius and I don't recall many people here use Sib other than One Winged, and myself... :think:

You seemed to have captured the winter feel right. The first string sections at 1:30 were great, and as usual you used a good variety of instruments perfectly together. As someone said earlier, the solo violin was a good touch.

I guess you strived for a feeling rather than a specific melody, didn't you? :P Well, in that case you succeeded. Since it's an opening movement, I can bare with the fact that it's not very recognizable or memorable.

Hope to hear the rest of your Christmas Suite!

Thanks for your comment, Noir!

Well yeah, the main purpose of this piece is to set up the atmosphere and feeling, but I was also told that my melody was too repetitive, lol. XD Yes, the next movement is on it's way... But it's gonna take a while. :P But thanks again!

Well, I've bought RA (an ethnic instrument library) :P for Christmas (XD yeah, early present)... And I'm loving it! So yeah, I've been playing around with it today, and here's a little something I got when I was playing with the cedar flute, pan flute, erhu and koto samples. :P I added a piano for a simple accompaniment... So yeah, fear the awesomeness of RA's awesome samples! And yes, these are REAL cedar flutes, pan flutes, erhu and koto if you still don't understand samples! :P

That's pretty nice. I liked the thing you had going on around 00:23-00:28. Keep RAing!

damn I need to get some ethno samples. you can do alot of athmospheric stuff with some of those flutes (diablo 2 act 3).

the thing around 23-28 sounds a little final fantasy-like.


Keep RAing!

I think around 00:17, when that whatever instrument it is first came in, it sounded really messy but once it settled, it blended well.

I think around 00:17, when that whatever instrument it is first came in, it sounded really messy but once it settled, it blended well.

No instrument came in at that part... Lol. They were all playing already. But it's just a random tune I wrote for RA practice. ^_^

You see, I was listening to Al's piece 2 weeks ago, and then I suddenly told myself "that's it, I'm gonna arrange this piece for orchestra". So I asked Al for permission after that and then got straight to working. It took me a little while, and some of my time to work on other pieces and whatnot, but now I look back, it was worth the time. I had fun arranging this piece as each section has a lot of freedom for me to play around with. ^_^ I also added little parts, countermelodies and etc... here and there. I also played with augmentation, diminution and other composition techniques here and there. The sampling of this piece nearly killed my RAM cos of the hugeness of the orchestra, so you'll hear some weird glitches here and there (eg: cymbal crashes ending abruptly, woodwinds cutting off on long notes), but they're usually quite subtle. The best part of the piece is that almost all instruments (excluding double bass and tuba) got a chance to take a melody or two. :P

Instrumentation:
2 Flutes
2 Oboes
1 English Horn
2 Clarinets
1 Bass Clarinet
1 Bassoon

2 Horns
2 Trumpets
1/2 Trombone(s)
1 Tuba

Various Percussions (Including wind chimes, bass drum, sleigh bells, tambourine, cowbells and triangle)
Timpani
Glockenspiel
Xylophone

Harp

Violin 1 Section
Violin 2 Section
Viola Section
Cello Section
Contrabass Section

So here it is! :P Alphonse Nguyen's "No Name Yet" for orchestra.

http://media.putfile.com/No-Name-Yet--Orch-Arr

Love the chimes, damn I need to get that program. What is the full name of "RA".

RA is not a program, it's a sample library. This arrangement is not RA, though. (its full name is EW/QL RA, btw). The orchestration is nearly flawless, and gives 'ol Al's piece new life!

Actually, the chimes aren't from RA, the wind chimes are from my sampler Kontakt. Thanks for the comments, guys!

Meh, second movement of my Christmas Suite has arrived. This time it's for symphonic orchestra, and again, it's an atmospheric piece. Oh and, there's a lot of strange percussives I used to convey the pastoral feeling. And that's pretty much it, listen to it at your own risk. I might consider to enter this as my CCCC entry. Oh yeah, and there are some places that sounds abrupt, but I did it on purpose, just so you know.

Ah! Long time no post here. x_x Apparently, I'm on a major major composer's block and couldn't get anything done. But I felt the need to revive this thread a little so I'm gonna post the unfinished Overture of my concerto. This piece will be finished when I feel like doing something oriental, which is... probably after I'm done with my super secret project (yes, highly confidential) that I'm currently working on. I probably will only post some fragments of that piece here since the project is kind of personal...

About the Piece:

Obviously, it's the overture of my Koto concerto. Even though it's part of the concerto, it doesn't feature koto though. :P It's done back a while ago (last October or so), so yeah... It's much more classical/romantic than my current style. It suggests some orientalism although it's quite blended with the western harmony. There's a lot of sudden change of mood and stuff; just like how overtures should be. It features a few viola, oboe and piano soli here and there. Oh, this piece lacks reverbs, so forgive me if it sounds too dry. I was trying to do a minuet section near the end, but I guess that's where I stopped since I was bored after a while... The piece will be kind of long too. But don't worry, the concerto will live... sometime not so soon... :ph34r:

Comments, criticisms, suggestions and whatnot are all welcomed.

The harp was repeated (only a BIT much; at the beginning, just the first 35 seconds). Otherwise, there's not much else I can say :) .

At :17, there was a bad dissonance that really didn't fit at all.

In my personal opinion, where you have the piano solo, you should keep some strings underneath doing some chords, just so that the texture stays good throughout. Also, I don't like the glissando in the piano.

It reminds me too much of something on a cheesy kid's classical music CD. It's well orchestrated, but I just hate that style of music.

At :17, there was a bad dissonance that really didn't fit at all.

In my personal opinion, where you have the piano solo, you should keep some strings underneath doing some chords, just so that the texture stays good throughout. Also, I don't like the glissando in the piano.

It reminds me to much of something on a cheesy kid's classical music CD. It's well orchestrated, but I just hat that style of music.

The :17 note is actually an important dissonance; it's a rather popular dissonance in traditional Chinese music, thus I used it.

As for your suggestion, I think it's okay on its own, keeping the texture too thick can make it sound monotonous.

As for your final comment: yes, not everyone can take orientalism since most people's ears are adapted to western music already.

@ Clarinetist: I actually find the harp fitting for its underlying ostinato-ish movements.

I appreciate your comments, but like I said: it's an old piece, so it will sound a little awkward due to the fact that I had a drastic style change since then.

Please stop with the condescension. It has nothing to do with whether my ears can handle "orientalism" (which I assure you they can). The fact of the matter is that it wasn't consistently oriental feeling. That's why the dissonance at :17 didn't work.

The texture thing was for the sake of consistency. Yes, you can have varying texture, but you need to find a bridge or a compromise between the two textures you want, because the texture change causes the piece to feel inconsistent.

I guess the biggest theme here is that the piece was inconsistent.

Please stop with the condescension. It has nothing to do with whether my ears can handle "orientalism" (which I assure you they can). The fact of the matter is that it wasn't consistently oriental feeling. That's why the dissonance at :17 didn't work.

The texture thing was for the sake of consistency. Yes, you can have varying texture, but you need to find a bridge or a compromise between the two textures you want, because the texture change causes the piece to feel inconsistent.

I guess the biggest theme here is that the piece was inconsistent.

:P Like I said before, it's a piece with the attempt of using western harmonies on a non-western designed melody. Whether you like that dissonance or not, it's a mandatory move. As for the consistency thing, I am not quite sure what you're referring to. Are you talking about the 'feel', the style, or the orchestration? If it's the stylistic problems, I can assure you that I am quite consistent at transiting from different sections. If you're talking about the feel, then it's perhaps an opinionated thing, since like I said before: it's an attempt to combine oriental techniques with western harmonies, and not everyone can perceive or understand it the way I do. If you're talking about the orchestration, I assure you: I want a thin texture so that I can contrast it totally with the section after.

If you're still doubtful about that dissonance, you should really listen to "Rufford Park Poachers" from Lincolnshire Posy by Percy Grainger, because the asymmetry and your so called 'inconsistency' throughout brought out the whole folksong idea. So basically, my point is: you can't really judge a song in consistency thematically; just because I use a totally oriental chord here doesn't mean I have to do it in the next section.

Edit: XD I actually felt a little offended when you were persisting on the fact that the piano needed an underlying texture... Hmm... Maybe I developed a sense of style that does not want to be changed.

So why did you want criticism if your just going to insist that I'm wrong?

I'm not saying that you're wrong. You see, composition is a very opinionated thing, in my opinion (that's why I put: 'but that's your choice whether you do what I say' sometimes). XD I just wanted to see what other people suggest, but I know for 80% of the time I won't change anything. Also, please don't feel offended if any of my 'counter points' (lol, pun) seem unreasonable.

OK, sorry. I guess I'm a bit grouchy. I do the same thing a lot, so I don't know why I'm complaining...

I just wanted to see what other people suggest, but I know for 80% of the time I won't change anything.
That's so true, I almost never change anything in my compositions even though I specifically ask for advice :)

hey i landed upon this topic and couldnt help but love your compositions for a 14 yr old i say thats fantastic im 16 n i still cannot do my own compositions i envy you lol but anywayz i really love your silhouette i was wondering if you have the piece i cna have to play? =)

Thanks for your comment, lilatlbabishorti! I am glad you like Silhouette even if it's a really old piece. Though, I am sorry to say, I can't really give you the sheet music since it's kind of an old piece and I am not really fond of giving out sheets of really really old works because I find it a little awkward comparing my improvement from then and now.

*Bump*

I haven't posted anything for a really long time... The last thing I posted was during Christmas and it's already May.. So yeah, you get my point. But just because I'm not posting anything, doesn't mean I stopped composing, in fact, I composed quite a lot. But either ways... I have an unfinished piece from my unusually huge project, and I need some suggestions and comments, but I won't post the piece here due to the fact that it's kind of a piece that's kind of personal (and the other fact is that it's quite a huge file and so I can't upload it here nor could I upload it elsewhere since my internet is slow and silly at uploading things). So if you can, PM me, message me on MSN if you have my MSN, or something so I can send you the piece.

Sorry for the triple post~

I have completed a movement of a part of my secret project that I've been talking about. But as I have stated in the previous post, I cannot post it due to the fact that it's too big (13 mb) and I don't want strangers to listen to it (strangers being like guests or anyone who isn't part of this forum). So I guess the only way to share this composition is through MSN or something... So yeah, basically, if you are interested on listening to it or want to give me comments/feedbacks or whatnot, message me on MSN, but if you don't have my MSN, PM me, I will get it to you through email or something.

But just to give you a hint of what my secret project is about:

1.) The part that I completed is a symphony's first movement, but the secret project is not JUST the symphony, there's more than that, but I won't reveal it since I am not even sure if I am ever going to finish it. Some of you might also have heard some other fragments of it, so consider yourself lucky if you did!

2.) This movement does not follow the classical rule of Allegro-Sonata form that you usually see in symphonies. It starts with the adagio tempo with the main motif or theme, but I wouldn't really call it theme since it's only 3 notes. Then the music travels through a variety of textures and contexts (i.e. a sicilienne, a waltz with emphasis on the third beat instead of the first, and multiple 'cantabile' parts) with the theme hinting here and there.

3.)Since it's a symphony, it's obviously for a full blown symphonic orchestra (what else would you expect from me? lol). The instrumentation consists of 2 flutes, a piccolo, 2 oboes, a cor Anglais, 2 Bb clarinets, an E flat clarinet, bass clarinet, 2 bassoons, a contrabassoon, 4 horns, 4 trumpets, 2 trombones, a bass trombone, a tuba, various percussions, celesta (my favourite instrument), harp, and of course, the string orchestra with violin and cello soli.

4.) This piece is totally 20th century influenced, just like most of my recent pieces.

5.) It's 11 minutes long. :mellow:

So yeah, it's basically an update of my composition. Again, please, if you are interested to listen to it, please PM me or something. Comments and criticisms are highly appreciated.

Edit: I found a way to upload it on a site, but due to the fact that it's only going to last for seven days, I won't post it here. So, if you're still interested, PM me. Get it while it lasts. :fear:

Koto Concerto - Overture_0002

Right away, I was drawn in by the syncopated rhythms in the introduction. The dissonance at 0:17 did throw me a bit at first, but I went back and relistened to it, and I guess my ears became accustomed to it, because it didn't jar me at all the second time around. I really like your progressions and how the harp sort of carries the orchestra through the first minute of the piece.

The high-pitched "chimey" instrument from 1:14 on is a nice way to give the solo clarinet (that is a clarinet, I'm assuming?) some accompanying cushion all the way through to the huge crescendo (anticipated very well with the wild harp runs!) into the orchestral bloom at 1:56. The percussion is light and unambiguous, very well executed as not to overwhelm the orchestral writing. The inner parts underneath the violins' melody weave through the harmonies very nicely, too. The grand pause at 2:51 is a nice surprise.

The solo piano bit is nice, as well, and I like how "clumsy" (in a charming way) the LH sounds here. The lingering on a D major chord at 3:42 for 10+ seconds is a little puzzling, though.

The section starting at roughly 4:00 is sort of creepy/awkward sounding -- nice percussion and use of high string writing. It was nice to hear the harp come back in later on, too. I really recommend you finish this overture, because it's wonderful so far! I like it, Sir_Dotdotdot. :)

I really enjoyed the beginning- reminded me a lot of Chopin's works. If you can- could you please add the sheet music? I would love to see how you wrote this piece. As I am still a novice at composition, I really have no constructive critisim to give on this piece- just keep it up!

Impressionistic to me, rather romantic as well. With a oriental feeling. At one point the subito forte of the brass gave me a shock. lol. Interesting use of instruments, especially the percussions. Pretty nice solo parts. The rhythm alone sure have its effects already. I have to say that this piece feels more like a symphonic poem to me, not a symphony. :)

Wow, thanks for all the comments!

@ Gnomish: I might considering finishing the overture... Though, unfortunately, I'm busy with my other project that I'm currently inspired to work on. But yes, the concerto will continue... Just not anytime soon, lol.

@ Huggy Bear: Thanks for your comment, but I'm sorry that I can't supply the sheet music due to the fact that it's extremely messy and I am not a fan of distributing messy sheets since messy notation is one of my pet peeves.

@ Rovski: Thank you for your input for my most recent project. I agree with you that it sounds more like a symphonic poem than a symphony to some degree, since it sounds more 'progressing' than 'stating', but there's something of that three notes that tells me that it's going to be a symphony instead of a symphonic poem. So yeah, I guess it's a personal thing.

Wow... great orchestration with the Koto Concerto!

The mix of styles works in an unusual and interesting way.

The dissonance at 0:17 really didn't bother me, if anything it added more to the piece, attracting the listener into the next chord.

I found the pauses at 1:04 quite unexpected, not really sure if I like the silence. The first solo was balanced well with the chimes, but still feels bare.

Great transition at 1:42... Very mysterious, leading to the next section.

Interesting rhythms at 2:12, I almost think there should be the Koto in that section playing over the silences with the tamborine... just a thought.

The section at 2:22 is definitely my favorite section! An awesome mix of oriental meets western!

The pause at 2:50 and the plucks/pizz that follow are almost too soft to hear. Maybe a little louder.

Superb piano part at 2:54. Very oriental, and I love the part where the bells come in.

Another great transition at 3:21 when the violins come in and create a counter melody.

The chords play by the piano at 3:41 could almost be backed up by the orchestra, so its not just piano. The single note in the background begins to sound awkward after a while, but its probably just the program making it sound weird.

I'm not really sure if the gliss at 3:53 was really needed. Just my thought.

The change of mood at 3:58 is really abrupt and extremely different than the piano solo. Very interesting. I almost think there should be more build up into the section.

Nice transition from 4:25 to 4:47 back into the main style of the piece.


Overall... Great Work. Very nice transitions and scoring with the orchestra.

You should definitely finish this piece! Can't wait to hear more!

Thanks for your input~!

In the meantime, I'll give an update of where I'm at, since this thread was quite dead before I 'distributed' the first movement of the symphony of my secret project.

Well, I have a composition assignment at my school currently, so yeah, that's definitely something I'll post up soon... Not to mention I pretty much have an idea of it, it's just putting it all together and whatnot (it's not going to be for orchestra, just for your information ;) and what it will be will remain as a secret until I post it). The second movement of the symphony is my second priority... Though I'm pretty sure it won't happen anytime soon. I'm also thinking of composing a band piece over the next while, but it's not a 100% project. I also had some ideas for a piano solo, but it's quite unlikely. Though, my mind works weirdly, so it's a possibility... Though, perhaps after the assignment piece, I might consider taking a break from composing for the next little while, since exams, oboe exams and end of year stuff are coming up.

Wow! The first movement of your symphony was very impressive! I'm generally not one to enjoy mysterious styles, but I think you really pulled it off well. It kept me interested the entire time. My favorite was definitely the part that features the celesta in the middle - I agree that it's an amazing instrument, and you really made good use of it, especially when you added in the other voices. I really can't think of a single criticism about it. I was also very impressed by your use of dissonance, mainly in the beginning. It's another thing that I'm not particularly good at, but you really pulled it off well. The whole time, you kept up the suspenseful feeling by making it seem like you're going to reslove a chord, then having it go to a completely unexpected chord, which I really liked.

Phenomenal work, and I really look forward to hearing the remaining movements!

Sounds like Holst harmonically, but the instrumentation is more like Danny Elfman. I like it, especially the part at 6:16 with the bells. The only thing that bugged me was the soundfonts, mostly of the brass instruments, but it was still well done.

I really like your first movement! I agree with deathraider, it reminds me of Holst as well. I absolutely love the celesta part. It reminds me of one of those music boxes that you open up to find a ballerina spinning around inside. The celesta is one of my favorite instruments, perhaps because I get to play it every year in the orchestra for my school's production of the Nutcracker Ballet. :) I'm actually in the midst of composing a piece that features the celesta. Anyway back to your piece. I enjoyed the creative use of percussion, including the chimes and the xylophone. Although if I were you, I would use the xylophone a bit more. It heard it play only those repeated notes (which was a great effect) at around 2:25, but then I didn't hear it at any other point in the piece. If the percussionists were playing multiple instruments, than it would be fine, but if the xylophonist only plays the xylophone, he/she would probably want a little more to play. Just a thought. And realize this is all coming from a percussionist, so you can take it with a grain of salt. :heh: Overall, this is a wonderful start. The music is very haunting, and develops well. I look forward to the second movement!

That first movement was just... wow. I like the solos/duets with the accompanying bells around 6:16-7:25. The oriental-sounding climaxes and whole mysterious feel of it just sucked me in, and the tying up of the movement with the flute/bassoon parts that alluded to the beginning dissonances was great. Great job, I'm looking forward to hear the other movements since you kinda ended on a cliffhanger ending there :)

EDIT: Oh, and your Koto Overture was just as great :) The rhythmic beginning and subtle allusions everywhere with the pizz. strings and stuff drew me in. The dissonance if anything enhanced the feel. The transition at around 1:47 was well anticipated and the change in style kept the overture style in keep. I too enjoyed the section as 2:22 with those high strings and the western/oriental mix. Absolutely brilliant, please finish it :)

EDIT 2: Yeah, I meant the flute/clarinet part. Pfft I've GOT to start studying timbres x_x

Ugh, I don't know why I'm the only one who feels that dissonance really distracts from the feel of the song...oh well... :(

Thank you for all the kind comments~

@ Deathraider: The brass soundfonts are all GPO, but yeah, I didn't do a good job on sampling it. I mean, when you have such a huge project, you get lazy with all the other stuff. Lol. As for your dissonance comment, I guess it's more of a personal thing.

@ Ghibligirl: I agree with you that the mallets should be more prominent, and yes, I asked for 4-5 percussionists instead of individual performers for each percussion. I guess I am just a bigger fan of non-pitched percussions. I am also quite reserved about using mallet percussions to present melody (except for marimba, which has enough carrying power). So I guess I'll just have to somehow manage, but thanks for you advice. =P

@ Ajamesu: Do you mean the flute and clarinet part? Cos I never really featured the bassoon much.

By the way, the ending of this recording should have one more thing. In the very last section, I assigned all strings, woodwinds, and brass (except for horns) players to chat lightly to create a 'restaurant' effect, but because I don't have samples of people talking, I can't really record that. XD

Again, all comments above are highly appreciated.

PS: I changed my first post in this thread to a somewhat biography thing about me... Just a piece of info for anyone who's interested... :heh:

You've got the mysterious feeling down my friend. :) I agree with the others that the celesta part is awesome, beside that it's hard to find much to criticise... I love your crescendos ;P

As mentioned before, I will post up a new piece fairly soon... And here it is! http://media.putfile.com/Flute-Quintet

As the name states, it's a flute quintet and so it's basically for solo flute, two violins, viola and cello. It's extremely simple in the form of ABA'. The piece throughout implies a siciliano feel even though it's not in 6/8 or 12/8. If you feel that there's too little dynamics in the recording, you're probably right. I was too busy with the look of the score than to put all those silly MIDI messages. But either ways, use your musical senses to put all the dynamics in if you may, lol. Overall, it's just a really really simple piece.

I really like silhouette but im not a big fan of the msn messenger noise at 2:51

I really like silhouette but im not a big fan of the msn messenger noise at 2:51

It's just a recording error, lol.

i figured, it was kinda funny, i thought somebody had messaged me...but when i looked noone had, so rewound the song...and well there i go. Im still a big fan of the song though

I'm bad at wording >_< At intro in Silhoutte it felt like I was riding a wave... like a wave of tingliness swept down my spine..... Overall pretty good

I love the flute :P Basically, the instrumentation was my favorite part. I liked it because it had some warm harmonies and feels good. I bet this would be like 1000 times better if performed live.

Ooo, there was one transition that seemed really random to me about 2/3-3/4 through the song, but it only bugged me a little...

very very nice i can offer no critique becasue i dont have enough experience but I say keep up the good work ^_^

Thank you for the kind comments, guys~

Wow. I've been listening to your stuff. You're really good...damn...

For those who have heard the first movement of the symphony:

Well yeah, if you've heard it and want to see the sheets (since I remember someone asked for it), PM me, email me or MSN me, it's ready. :ph34r: I don't really want to post it here because it's kind of a somewhat personal project and I'm not too comfortable with posting sheets of big projects on forums where lurkers can download. :ph34r:

PS: I lied, when I said the symphony has three 2 flutes, it's actually 3. But following with the next movement the instrumentation has changed... Quite drastically:


1 Piccolo
3 Flutes (flute 1 being alto flute in second movement)
1 Alto flute (flute 1)
~~
2 Oboes
1 Cor Anglais
~~
1 Eb Clarinet
2 Bb Clarinet
1 Bass Clarinet
~~
2 Bassoons
1 Contrabassoon
~~
4 Horns (1 and 3 being high horns, 2 and 4 being the bass horns)
~~
4 Trumpets in Bb
~~
2 Tenor Trombones
1 Bass Trombone
~~
1 Tuba
~~
5 Percussionists - 1 on Timpani full time, 4 on anything else
~~
1 Celesta
1 Harp (possibly two, with all my key changes, but I won't add this until my final revision of the 'project')
~~
21 First violins (with principal playing soli)
21 Second violins
18 Viole
12 Celli (principal plays all the soli)
8 Contrabassi


Instrumentation may subject to change. :ph34r:

Actually, could you somehow re-post the first movment, or someohow get it to me via PM? I'm looking forward to hearing this; I have a feeling it might be Mahler-esque :shifty:

The harmonies are excellent, as usual... I agree with Deathraider, you should get it performed live! I'm sure it would rocket your musical career.

*Bump*

I'm not posting a new composition yet. However, because I had this weird arrangement craving two days ago, I finished an arrangement of Noir7's Angelic (or known as the Cello etude if you downloaded his sheet music for it). Of course, it's not arranged for anything but for orchestra, although the orchestra for this arrangement is fairly small. The piece is fairly short, and I try to make it as waltz-y and dance-like as possible. And that's about all the information you need to know... Enjoy, Noir's Angelic for orchestra. :)

PS: The score is made available for anyone interested. You may also notice that there are some unison doublings, but don't worry, it's done on purpose for atmospheric or acoustic reasons.

:think: I can't think of anything to say. It was great. :) Especially the use of the discords.

Silhouette ~

I really like this piece... I can tell that there is a melody in there somewhere, but it’s kinda hard to make out because there’s so much going on in the piece at once. Was that on purpose? If so, you accomplished that very effectively. ^^; If not, I would suggest thinning the instrumentation a bit or taking the dynamics down a few notches... maybe even making the melody go against the accompaniment by basing it in broad triplets or at least moving melodic emphases of the down-beats. Speaking of instrumentation, is this piece for a piano duet? It sounds a little too complex for a single pianist unless, of course, that pianist is a sort of virtuoso. =P

If I were to focus on how I would interpret a silhouette, though, I would say that this is not a very accurate representation. Silhouettes are distinctive--generally (at least in art) they have very well-defined lines and a shape--but they still have an element of uncertainty... “What is that thing?” “Who is that person?” “Where is that place?” I personally think that the piece was, in a way, too sure of itself... I felt like I could predict which chord would come up next. That’s by no means a bad thing, but when you’re trying to represent an unknown in anything (without giving away the underlying secret), it makes more sense--to me, at least--to keep the listener guessing. That, I feel, was not accomplished in this piece.

Another thing about the piece... Why is it so fast? The tempo itself may be relatively moderate, but there are so many runs and things that, with a few changes in orchestration, it sounds like a high-speed car chase at nightfall or something very... fleeting like that. ^^;

If I knew what the silhouette was, then it might be a completely different story... but then again, that would take away what the piece is attempting to convey! XD So yeah... I like the piece; I wouldn’t call it “easy listening”, but it certainly was a pleasure to listen to it. =] The main thing I have “wrong” with it is the title itself.

-=-=-=-=-

I actually wrote that response yesterday and forgot to post it. XD;
I tried looking at one of your more recent works, too (Flute Quintet), but the page wouldn't load for me. --; I'll try to respond to some more of your stuff later, though!

Uhh... Thanks for the comment, but I don't really think I wanted a comment for that old piece. Besides, its purpose was merely for me to compose something for piano and yes it's for two pianos.

Yeah, I know that it's a little frustrating that, of all pieces, I had to respond to the first one on this thread... but my original idea was to respond to the earliest piece (Silhouette), and then to the latest one that was readily available to me (Flute Quintet). I tried to look at it, but, as I said at the end of my previous post, it wouldn't load up. =[

So yeah... I tried, and failed. But I will try again soon... whenever I have the time. ^^;

*Update*

Well, again, no new compositions to be posted, however, the second movement of the symphony is done! For those of you who have me on MSN or is an active member on Ichigo's, you may request to hear it. This entire project thing is fairly personal, hence the fact that I only allow certain people to listen to it. However, I do appreciate comments and feedbacks for this piece.

~~~

Asides from that piece of general information, I should give some background to this piece:

Well, firstly, this piece was, once again, using the same ensemble as the movement before. Originally, I wanted to incorporate a guitar, however, it just didn't fit the way I wanted, so I took it out. Secondly, it's split in two parts. Not really the A-B form, but rather, two totally different sections. Part A is a quasi-pavane-esque procession (it's too slow for a pavane, yet it pertains the pavane rhythm), and part B being a danse macabre (dance of the dead). Part A is fairly straightforward with a lot of repetition here and there, while part B is filled with surprises and unusual elements. What kind of surprises you ask? Well, you can listen for yourself. ;) Thirdly, this piece is quite a contrast compared to what you would usually expect out of me. Instead of seventh and ninth chords, there's lots of... Minor seconds against minor ninths with a tritone in between. However, it's only the danse macabre, the pavane is still fairly normal with my usual harmonies. The tempo of this piece changes from the almost sluggish grave con minaccio to the violent and fiery allegro barbaro. Fourthly, the recording I'll send to people is a rough one, compared to the one I'll make later for a competition in October, so what you hear might not be the final product.

Generally, that's about all the information you need to know, but if you want to know more, you need to PM me or something.

Presenting to you:

Symphony #1 - Second Movement - Pavane and Danse Macabre

A new piece. It's not really meant to be outstanding or anything, I just wanted to get off my usual style for a while before I get converted to absolute 20th century in the next while. So yes, I composed a rather 'different' tango-esque habanera (in this case, different means something unusual from my own usual style... which is pretty unusual, I'd say). So I'd say this piece is fairly 'usual' for average ears, nothing fancy. Also, perhaps this piece will be the last piece that I'll be posting for a very long time. So yes, presenting to you: Habanera for Cello and Piano (though the recording is a bassoon though, since I was too lazy to make a decent recording with GPO). So enjoy (or not) this little Spanish-origin dance. ;)

To me, the progression in the left hand of the piano sounded funny. But I liked it otherwise. ^_^

Thanks for the comment~ :) But when you say it sounds funny, do you mean awkward funny or just funny funny? If it's awkward-ish, it's probably the grace notes.

I prefer this new piece over your symphony, I thought is was really enjoyable. And yeah, you should really use a cello instead of that bassoon =)

I really think you have captured a considerable amount of aggression or temperament in the new piece, wich is befitting a spanish dance. I would have loved a more climactic ending though.

overall: nice one!

Thanks guys~

@ Noir: The symphony uses a completely different definition of a 'piece', compared to this one. ;) Though I can understand why you like this one more.

@ One Winged: I would have added more spice and sugar to it if it was a larger scale work. XD I mean, it's done in less than 2 hours and meant to be a little excercise to check if I can still write for average ears.

These "average" ears kind of liked it so mission accomplished ;)

That sounded Great! The only thing I had a problem with was that it seemed a little to repetitive to me, and I would've picked a different instrument instead of a bassoon. But it was still effective.

Well, as I have said before, I won't be posting any compositions for a long time~ But I guess I changed my mind again... For the worst, at least. I won't be posting compositions anymore. It's not that I fear copyrights issue or anything like that, it's just that I feel that I've grown out of Ichigo's. I feel that there are not enough constructive criticisms for my pieces anymore. All comments I now receive are like 'I like it' or 'I don't really like it', which I do appreciate, but I don't think I learn anything from them. My ultimate objective in posting compositions on Ichigo's is literally to 'learn', but the composition forums are quite... dead lately, hence I feel there are nothing to learn from this place much anymore. I am not underestimating the forums, it's just that, again, I've outgrown it.

That said, I will still stay on the forums being a critic and whatnot, but it's just that I won't post anymore compositions (I will still compose, yes). If you're interested in my music, then perhaps you can PM me and I can update you once a while. But for now, I guess that's it.

This thread may die on its own, but if I can, I may request a lock or something.

If you ever want me to make some specific criticism, you're welcome to ask me. Heaven knows how much I ask other people...