That is not a typo. Any one believe in it? What or your thoughts on it? Good or evil or does it depend? Talk about it.

To tell you the truth, yes I believe that magic does exist in this world somehow, somewhere.

The weird thing about it is that I am tring to grasp that power and use it to help others and myself in any way possible. Often my classmates would see me draw random symbols on a peice of paper or even draw pentagrams or magic circles. And what makes it even worse I want myself to become a magician if I am not.

I'm a very weird individual, yes.

I highly doubt it. I've never seen any serious evidence put forward for it and it strikes me as something originating out of a cultural background for reasons of lack of understanding than any actual success. Then again, I've never seen anything that really refutes the notion, but given that it isn't necessary to explain anything, I'm inclined to disbelieve.

To tell you the truth, yes I believe that magic does exist in this world somehow, somewhere.

The weird thing about it is that I am tring to grasp that power and use it to help others and myself in any way possible. Often my classmates would see me draw random symbols on a peice of paper or even draw pentagrams or magic circles. And what makes it even worse I want myself to become a magician if I am not.

I'm a very weird individual, yes.
You are not alone Hiei.

You are not alone Hiei.

No you are not, Hiei. I agree. :P

The concept of Magic goes back to the first appearance of humans.
several of the traditions are still practiced today.

I beleive that magic exists in one form or another, but I also believe that the human mind is is the source of some of it. people can cause strange things to happen with their minds, and since the average human uses only about 7-10% of the brain who knows what one could do at 75-100% function.

and since the average human uses only about 7-10% of the brain who knows what one could do at 75-100% function.

That's a myth, we use all our brain.

I think magic exists. People always give the excuse "there's no evidence".
Well, we only have 5 senses and our discoveries and thoughts are only limited to those senses. Magic might be beyond our understanding.

Very true. Even my philosophies about the world and etc cannot be proven by a normal source. I'm trying to find a way to prove it through a superhuman way.

Bleh, I am not making much sense, forget about that.
But I do believe some sources of magic does come from our own minds. If you've seen and experienced some things you would understand. Because people could use the power of the mind to substitute pain or etc. And our brians arent fully deciphered yet, which means there is a possibility that such things can exist in our own minds!

Heh, kind've like I how I make myself not feel pain on my arms.^_^

That's a myth, we use all our brain.

it's not a myth- there is a lot of our brain that is not used.

It's not that it's not used... It's that it's not utilized to it's fullest potential.

And yes I do believe in magick. I can't really put the reason why into words, but it just seems to be highly possible.

My parent's are highly against me doing any type of study on it (to be honest, I think they would disown me if I did study), so my sources are limited to the very top of the subjects and no deeper.

Just out of curiosity, why are we using Crowley's spelling of magic? Is there really any difference from Magic to Magick?

Magick is spelled the way it is to seperate it from trick magic. Iuse magick because I am talking about th real thing.

it's not a myth- there is a lot of our brain that is not used.

It is a myth wether you like it or not: Look here (http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html)
Here (http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm)
Here (http://www.csicop.org/si/9903/ten-percent-myth.html)
And Here (http://www.brainconnection.com/topics/?main=fa/brain-myth)

it's not a myth- there is a lot of our brain that is not used.

Yes, the brain uses a lot of energy. If there was a large chunk of it hanging around that didn't do anything significantly beneficial to survival, it wouldn't have lasted all that long.

Is it just me, or are people more sympathetic towards magic(k) than towards God?

And as for the 10% brain thing, assuming that the number has some meaning, we can read it as 10% being "in use" at any one time. Kind of like how when the highways are functioning well, only about 10% of it is "in use" at any one time. But the entire highway is certainly utilized. If you were to put 100% of the highway in use at any one time, you get gridlock. If you were to put 100% of your brain in use at any one time, you get..."zapped"?...

Is it just me, or are people more sympathetic towards magic(k) than towards God?

And as for the 10% brain thing, assuming that the number has some meaning, we can read it as 10% being "in use" at any one time. Kind of like how when the highways are functioning well, only about 10% of it is "in use" at any one time. But the entire highway is certainly utilized. If you were to put 100% of the highway in use at any one time, you get gridlock. If you were to put 100% of your brain in use at any one time, you get..."zapped"?...

Yeah, that possibly is what is meant by it- 10% used at any one time. Because im sorry, but scientific proof or not, there's no way i believe that we use the full potential of our brains; maybe as far as science can prove, then yes- but there are other things such as personality and intuition that science can't prove; yes, there have been case studies in psychology where damage to certain parts of the brain have caused someone to change personality; and maybe scientists can hazard a guess at the area of the brain responsible for this; but as far as im concerned, the brain is something too complex for any human to understand. if scientists fully realised the potentials of the human brain; then any form of artificial intelligence would be at a much more advanced stage than it is at the moment.

as for the whole magick/God thing you mentioned... well i suppose it could be that there's more excitement over magick because people these days just want more power; and believe magick would give them that if they learned how to do it? not meaning to offend you if you are religious or whatever, but i think that the idea of being able to perform magick makes God seem quite boring in comparison?

if scientists fully realised the potentials of the human brain; then any form of artificial intelligence would be at a much more advanced stage than it is at the moment.


Not so, understanding something is different from being able to make something, and yes although the brain isn't readily understood, any of your so-called "unused" brainpower probably would enable the use of magic, more like psionics. If anything with all this we only use 10% of our brains, we can unleash the untapped potential stuff you people are probably deluding yourself (possibly a result of watching too much anime) into believing that you can do magic as some kind of "Chosen One" or something similar.

Maybe we can unlock our own SEED -

*is brutally gunned down by machinegun fire*

Not so, understanding something is different from being able to make something, and yes although the brain isn't readily understood, any of your so-called "unused" brainpower probably would enable the use of magic, more like psionics. If anything with all this we only use 10% of our brains, we can unleash the untapped potential stuff you people are probably deluding yourself (possibly a result of watching too much anime) into believing that you can do magic as some kind of "Chosen One" or something similar.

Well, how would the so-called untapped brain-power facilitate magic? You see, if we can find an explanation for that question, what we've got is no longer magic; it's science. The brain, as far as we know, only works because it's wired to a body via nerves.

*Shrugs*

I think Arthur C. Clarke once said that sufficiently advanced science would look to us like magic. (Show a caveman a flashlight, for example.) The defining factor of magic is that we don't understand it.

The cynic in me thinks that magic has always been either science or religion, with the knowledge kept to an elite few, instead of being shared (like today, mostly). Knowledge = power, in a very real sense: I know how to cure you, and I won't tell you how to cure yourself, so I can ask you to do things for me, when you want to be cured.

Magic is every bit as fuzzy a concept as god. Not worth believing in, IMO. (But, to be fair, believers in magic don't usually tell me I'll burn in hell, or equally nasty things. So, yes, I'm a bit more sympathetic to "pagan" faiths, than to monotheisms.)

I think Arthur C. Clarke once said that sufficiently advanced science would look to us like magic. (Show a caveman a flashlight, for example.) The defining factor of magic is that we don't understand it.

But can scientific knowledge really increase without bound? After all, we've already run into unsolvable problems, so there probably is a significant portion of the universe that will never be explained by science...

does anyone believe in magic? oh sure, along with santa claus and lord voldemort;)

Next Christmas Santa Claus will drop Lord Voldemort at your place for a night of forbidden delights.

Next Christmas Santa Claus will drop Lord Voldemort at your place for a night of forbidden delights.

i cannot wait;)

Well, how
I think Arthur C. Clarke once said that sufficiently advanced science would look to us like magic. (Show a caveman a flashlight, for example.) The defining factor of magic is that we don't understand it.

Magic is every bit as fuzzy a concept as god. Not worth believing in, IMO. (But, to be fair, believers in magic don't usually tell me I'll burn in hell, or equally nasty things. So, yes, I'm a bit more sympathetic to "pagan" faiths, than to monotheisms.)

It's actually sufficiently advanced technology not just science, although a caveman probably wouldn't understand a page of theoretical physics, I doubt it would be considered magic.

Is magic really a faith? I always thought that is was generally(keyword generally) just something done by someone who wants to believe that they have powers over everything and that they are in some way special.

But can scientific knowledge really increase without bound? After all, we've already run into unsolvable problems, so there probably is a significant portion of the universe that will never be explained by science...

Well, no, I don't think science can let us know everything. It's bounded by it's own methodology.

It's just that I have a hunch, if we can do it, we might be able to understand it one day. Magic is not necessarily a "thing"; todays magic could be tomorrow's science. If that is so, I have trouble understanding what I'm supposed to believe in.


It's actually sufficiently advanced technology not just science, although a caveman probably wouldn't understand a page of theoretical physics, I doubt it would be considered magic.

Yup, technology. Sloppy me. :sweat:


Is magic really a faith? I always thought that is was generally(keyword generally) just something done by someone who wants to believe that they have powers over everything and that they are in some way special.

Magic isn't a faith, really. True. But there are certain beliefs, centered around magic, especially in the esoteric culture (Alchemy and the Great Arcanum; Thaumaturgy and Theurgy; etc.). Christians have magic, too, but they call it "miracles". ;)

(I didn't think properly when making that former post...)

Magick is that that science has yet to understand. I don't understand how some faithful christians and cathalics can't believe in magick if they believe in God. God needs help. One of the reasons he has angels. Possibly, he gives magick to some humans (called witces and wizards) so they can help out a bit, too. But they chose what to use there powers for.

On the subject of witches and wizards. Let me point out right now that the diffrence is NOT in the gender. The diffrence is in the craft. For example: I'm a girl and I am a wizard.

BTW, this topic includes the crafts, cultures, religions and animals the center/ oppose magick.

I don't understand how some faithful christians and cathalics can't believe in magick if they believe in God. God needs help. One of the reasons he has angels. Possibly, he gives magick to some humans (called witces and wizards) so they can help out a bit, too. But they chose what to use there powers for.

According to our beliefs, God doesn't need help. However, He may still bestow "spiritual gifts" on some. Catholics call those "saints" and distinguish them from "witches." The distinction is rather arbitrary though. In my opinion, God would only bestow those gifts upon those who are very good and extremely unlikely to be corrupted by such gifts.

Oh, and don't say "Christians and Catholics." Catholics are Christians.

A Christian (sorry about the catholic stuff thing) "witch" would still be called a witch. A saint, I believe, is someone who is close to God and does good in the world. That is very diffrent from a witch, who has supernatural powers. And even if you are right about who God choses to give these "powers" to you can never truely be sure. I think even God does not know everything.

[...]A saint, I believe, is someone who is close to God and does good in the world. That is very diffrent from a witch, who has supernatural powers.[...]

How is it any different? Think about these two sentences. They are pretty much mean the same thing. If you are close to God, or a god, he will bestow upon you supernatural powers. How else did the some of the things found in the Bible (the book being Fact or Fiction, I leave it to you to decide) happen other than by magick? It's one in the same. Unless you're talking about the differences between White and Black Magick.

A saint might be a witch but a witch is not a saint. There is a huge diffrence! Plus, witches are of all religions. Not just christianity. If you believe that then it is only commen sense to figure out that Saints are the only ones that are witches.;)

I didn't say God was the only source of "magical" (for lack of a better word) power. I did say that the only power recognized by Christians as incorruptibly good is that from God, and that that power is only given to those who are already good, i.e., the "saints." Those termed witches may have received their powers from other sources.

I believe God knows everything. God not knowing everything about the world He created is kind of like me not knowing what I coded on my site.

Ok That makes more sense. If you read the bible Noah's Ark chapter thing good says that it was something he would never do and shouldn't have done. Something along those line I believe. I don't know some of the dtuff on my sites.... I barely now what I'm doing with any of the stuff I do. I just... experiment a bit.

Yes, God was grieved. But as He had the power to undo everything and chose not to, I read that although He was upset at the current state, He felt/knew it had to happen in order for good to come out of it. Kind of like how we as kids were upset when we were vaccinated and our parents were probably concerned about us crying as well, but they knew and we now know that it had to happen so that we would be happier now.

Oh, and you are being supervised with your experimenting, right? Any kind of experimenting, scientific or otherwise, can go awry...

I was talking about websites.... Whatever, that is off topic. MAkes more sense. I agree with you...sort of.

Anyway, how about dragons?

Yes I do believe that Magick and Black Magick is real. Sometimes I want to use Magick to help people, and sometimes I just want to use the Dark Magick to make some destruction. :sweat:

BLack Magick isn't bad....Atleast not in wizardry. And, in wizardry, there are many colors of magick.

By the way if anyone wants a scientific explenation on how dragons breath fire just. I believe they do exist.

Doesn't it involve the vapors that the dragons naturally produce inside there chest cavity (I think they have a seperate set of lungs for it), and a stone that they eat, called Phosphine?

*Goes to get Dragonology Handbook*

"ONE Hypothesis suggests that dragons breath fire as a result of generating mathane gas in their stomachs a gas that also enables them to "float" like balloons. In fact, as the dragon's head evolved, so also did the fangs and venom-producing organs that are actually responsible for tha dragon's fiery breath."

-Ernest Drake,
Dagonology,
Pg 2 of Chapter I
*note: This is a theory. It was NOT made up by Ernest Drake and he definately does not agree.

"HOW DRAGONS BREATH FIRE

Essentially, fire breathing is made possible through adaption of venom glands, such as those commonly found in cobras or asps. As with these snakes, dragon venom comes from two specially adapted teeth, or fangs. Dragons who can breath fire secrete a piece of flint and a piece of iron pyrite in a special pouch in their mouths, jiggling them to produce the spark to light the venom. Explanations involving methane gases or iron teeth are unscientific nonsense."
-Ernest Drake,
Dregonlogy,
Page 2 of Chapter III

Can some one provide me with a full body pick of the rare Indonesian Komodo dragon for my dragon studies?

Dose anyone know of a site that teaches you how to do/use magick?

Can some one provide me with a full body pick of the rare Indonesian Komodo dragon for my dragon studies?

1. http://www.griffinbyteworks.com/travel/indonesia90/images/id009-KomodoDragon1.jpg
2. http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Field/7207/id4.jpg
3. http://www.embassyofindonesia.org/basicfacts/Gambar/komodo-dragon-picture.gif

anyone know a love spell? :P

Dose anyone know of a site that teaches you how to do/use magick?
Yes...But I haven't truted you yet so I''m not supposed to give it to you. I also know a book. The site and book are related.

anyone know a love spell? :P
I had one somewhere....IT had something to do with a pink candle and writing the name of the perosn on it and letting it melt ut I don't reccomend doing that with this scarce information. I could have mixed up spells.-_-

Chibi-Chan, if you want to find a site just use Google for one, you'll find one.

Chibi-Chan, if you want to find a site just use Google for one, you'll find one.
That's a good idea, too. Go to the 100s in the library.

BTW, thaks for the pics M!

anyone know a love spell? :P

Mixing Magic and love is a big no no, unless you understand the consequences. Do you want the person to willfully love you or do you want the person to love you because you want them to love you? Physically, either way is fine, but think long and hard before making such a decision. It is a life altering one that can tip both in and out of your favor. I find that in situations like these, humans should depend upon themselves... Not magic, not God or some deity you worship, but on humanity itself. God may know us better than anyone else (which is kinda scary if you ask me), but it is up to humanity to determine if one is the significant of the other. He (God) can direct you in a path, but he cannot force you to take that path.

Mixing Magic and love is a big no no, unless you understand the consequences. Do you want the person to willfully love you or do you want the person to love you because you want them to love you? Physically, either way is fine, but think long and hard before making such a decision. It is a life altering one that can tip both in and out of your favor. I find that in situations like these, humans should depend upon themselves... Not magic, not God or some deity you worship, but on humanity itself. God may know us better than anyone else (which is kinda scary if you ask me), but it is up to humanity to determine if one is the significant of the other. He (God) can direct you in a path, but he cannot force you to take that path.
That would be why I never used it. It goes against my morals.

Most of that kind of magic never works anyway. Violating the natural law of free will will never work out. If such things are violated, the system would break apart.

Hey septermagick & Hiei you seem to know alot about magick and was woundering if you can teach me more about magick,I know a little to nothing on the subject of magick? And why I picked you guys cause you seem the most smart for the part. So if you can help/teach me more about magick it would be greatly appreciated (sp?)


Thanks

You are not alone Hiei.
:lol:

Hey septermagick & Hiei you seem to know alot about magick and was woundering if you can teach me more about magick,I know a little to nothing on the subject of magick? And why I picked you guys cause you seem the most smart for the part. So if you can help/teach me more about magick it would be greatly appreciated (sp?)


Thanks

Well, you can buy a Grimoire.

Septy, what was it called (that one you had)? :heh:

BTW, you won't be making chairs fly around or seeing the future. XD

you won't be making chairs fly around or seeing the future. XD

It is possible for some to see the future. Just not a point worth arguing about because most people who do seriously believe something's going to happen in the future make it happen through their own will.... it's a pretty complicated thing to go into anyway.

haha- where did the chairs flying around come from? :heh: i think that's more along the lines of mediumship than magick. although i suppose it could be possible for something like that to happen through magick if during a ritual, bad energies were trapped or something- i don't know

Telepathy....

@ Marlon: Anyway, I prefer not to say and rather they find it on there own though you just gave them a clue. I guess, sorta like a test and partly that I'm only supposed to tell people I trust. No offense to anyone.

@ Marlon: Anyway, I prefer not to say and rather they find it on there own though you just gave them a clue. I guess, sorta like a test and partly that I'm only supposed to tell people I trust. No offense to anyone.

I am terribly sorry. :heh:

Is it just me, or are people more sympathetic towards magic(k) than towards God?

It may be because magic (the one with the "k" looks so stupid people...) isnt some twit who is telling people "beleave in me or you will be punished". Magic hasnt started any real wars (unless you beleave in Merlin..) or killed anyone (unless you actualy beleave in this crap crap) so thats why people dont flame the beleavers as much as a god beleaver.

beleavers as much as a god beleaver.

Sorry, but I have to point out your repeated - and quite clumsy - spelling errors. XD

Telepathy....

@ Marlon: Anyway, I prefer not to say and rather they find it on there own though you just gave them a clue. I guess, sorta like a test and partly that I'm only supposed to tell people I trust. No offense to anyone.

Yeah... isn't it like part of the whole path of magick that you have to discover it for yourself as opposed to being taught? i've don't try things anymore- just have a lot of books on the subject because i find it fascinating; there was a time when I did some stuff, but I suppose I've decided now not to practise anymore. i'd rather just read about it so theres no danger of me being ignorant to the whole topic.

Telepathy isn't anything to do with magick really.. its something you have to be born with, and something you can't really control. Trying to explain that kind of thing to someone who hasn't experienced it is like trying to explain colours to a blind person. It only happens with me with people i'm really close to and fully trust (which makes it rare for me because i trust no one).

Also just for the record, I know septermagick probably already knows this.. but looking at how telepathy was brought up in relation to chairs flying across the room... just to clear things up for people who may have been confused:

Telepathy= the linking of two or more minds.. not always mind reading, but can include this and can also include things like saying/doing the exact same thing at the exact same time... basically the stuff you see happening on any TV show that includes a pair of weird twins.

chairs flying around the room= Telekinesis= the power to move objects with the mind.

I'm proud to say that I don't deal with magic. Most everything can be explained. Although I do believe there are choice times when the unexplainable appear and "magic" could be to blame.

This reasoning is a belief is partially biased. I believe that people should rely upon themselves to do something instead of using "magic" to help themselves out with something they want or need.

Also just for the record, I know septermagick probably already knows this.. but looking at how telepathy was brought up in relation to chairs flying across the room... just to clear things up for people who may have been confused:

Telepathy= the linking of two or more minds.. not always mind reading, but can include this and can also include things like saying/doing the exact same thing at the exact same time... basically the stuff you see happening on any TV show that includes a pair of weird twins.

chairs flying around the room= Telekinesis= the power to move objects with the mind.
That's right XD :heh: I seem to always mix thoose two up. >.< Bleh

LoL. Well, yeah, I completely forgot about what you told me, Septy... XD

"Magick" does exist. There are different forms of it too, we just only see Voo Doo and Witchcraft because there the most popular ones, not used but just widely known, when really all around the world the ancient knowledge of "magick" is kept in only certain areas of the world to prevent the misuse of it, morales, ethinics or w/e you want to call it. If you want to learn the knowledge of "magick"...well then thats too bad because it wasn't meant to be spread around for everybody to use. How do I know this? My mom and very few of her friends were taught "White Magic" as it is commonly called but really when its called healing magic or power or....well yeah. She was probably the only one who was taught the most because she was being "attacked" by an ex-friend who got angry and somehow knew magic and used it on my mom. She went to a doctor because she felt ectremely "awful" at times and even he couldn't explain it. She now heals herself from the unexplainable illness and her family and some friends...and I'm getting off topic. Anyways, magic does exist, is just that some people weren't meant to learn it or shown it and it doesn't have to do with the BRAIN, though you must remember some verses but yeah. And whether you believe me or not, I don't really care, I'm just here to correct this topic about "magic". ^_^

But, you see, /Magick/ vs /magic/ are quite similar. Magick is a term coined by Aleister Crowley to make it stand out from the so-called "Magic" shown by illusionist (Wikipedia - Magick, par 1). The two words are one in the same. The only reason everyone is using this different spelling here is to show the diference between a Craft user and a stage magician (such as David Copperfield).

Personally I find the difference quite--Stupid. But the reasoning behind the abnormal spelling does make a point.

(hey! I did research! *cowers in front of his parents* I hope they don't - me...)

I used to think I had telepathy until I took that personnality test and found out that I'm good at judging people. Who knows? Maybe it is telepathy. It's cool either way. lol

I believe that when God created life and gave them free will, he became completely powerless and was then at the mercy of our choices. Though I do believe that we are born to make certain choices based on the way we function, so therefore I believe in destiny. I also believe greatly in magick, I suppose because it seems that it is something so divine and powerful, that the user would seem significant, which I suppose is what I seek. But anything mystical attracts me, for different reasons. I desire the power to manipulate the universe, to convert forms of energy in midair, to ball it up and fire it out, to manipulate time within confined areas, to master the elements, to spontaneously create any result I wish. I think that desire and belief are one in the same. People want a great protector, a place they think lies beyond Death to eliminate the fear. They want it, so they believe in it. That is my theory on... these things.

christians are supposed to be antimagick though. using magick means you worship power. white magick or black magick, it's against our religion. worshipping something other than God is wrong since it is against the 10 commandments. well that's what our religion teacher says. ;)

Since when does magic promote another god? When it's tied into Atheism, or Wicca, then I understand, but when it stands alone, it is merely a study; not any different from someone learning science, or math.

And wouldn't it be accurate to say that Jesus, and his disciples, used Holy Magic? I realize that they were endowed with the power of the holy spirit, but the outcome is the same--they manipulated, and created the impossible.

I don't believe that the Ten Commandments were written by God. I believe that God is the Creator and basically nothing more. I think that he accepts our free will and refuses to interfere like that. The Ten Commandments were created by humans who were taking advantage of the widepread fear and respect to God. They took that and used it to create a set of rules that they knew all bible-beating SuperChristians would follow. The commandment about worshipping other Gods was either to keep them from creating other religions that didn't focus on the Commandments or to keep magick hidden for those who think of it that way.

Magick does exist, it has to do with the spirits. God has said we shouldn't do magic...And it's not really safe to meddle with such things anyways, I believe, spirits can be dangerous (Guess you won't take this serious, but many people have gone insane after contacting the spirits).
The spirits that we can get in contact with in this world, many of those are demons...Maybe God just said we should not do magick for our own safety?

Magick does exist, it has to do with the spirits. God has said we should do magic...And it's not really safe to meddle with such things anyways, I believe, spirits can be dangerous (Guess you won't take this serious, but many people have gone insane after contacting the spirits).
The spirits that we can get in contact with in this world, many of those are demons...Maybe God just said we should not do magick for our own safety?

i'm confused...

Sorry, that was a very confusing typo, I see that now :P
It was supposed to be "God has said we shouldn't do magic" :P

correct but you mean to kill those who do magic well christians do i guess cus they think a magic ghost is in them.

magick exists, and it is an art of the spirit

personaly, i practice wicca, because it is mostly magick that heightens our spirit, mood, and energy, not used to harm or destroy, in fact the only thing i use it for is to reenergize myself and my mind, which works, otherwise i let life run its course, without magick

"It's all mirrors!"

-Me

I think that the idea of Christianity is that nothing we do should be for the benefit of ourselves, whether directly or indirectly. That's why we get prayer as opposed to magic. It's all too easy to credit magic to the wrong source; at least in prayer, we know where the power comes from. So there's nothing intrinsically wrong with magic/miracles/whatever you want to call it; it's just that it's way too easy to abuse, and so it's simpler just to work without it. After all, we already have all we need to function in this life. Why ask for more?

Okay...

First off. Yes, magic, or magick however you wanna spell it, does exist.

But do not be deceived by the popular media or anything else, there is no such thing as 'good magick.' I have talked to many wiccas in my days and they all say the same thing. They will use this 'power' they found for good. They beleive that magick is a line, with white at one side, black at the other and gray in the middle. The only problem is that there is no white. there is no gray. the line is black. Pure and Simple. Magick is from the pit of hell.

They think that they have control over this power they have found. They think that magick is some source or 'stream' running through the universe that can be grasped and manipulated at will. All it is is a demon tricking you, trying to tell you that you have power when in reality, they are just putting a collar on you. They are binding you with chains of darkness that can only be broken with the Light of God.

I know that all of this harry potter and fantasy stuff make it seem fun. And it is attractive, trust me i enjoy reading dragonlance and forgotten realms and all this stuff with magick in it, but you can't dabble in it. You shouldn't even play around with the 'light' stuff. Like a ((i cant ever remember how to spell this)) Wigi Board. The devil will use any foothold he can to get into your life and rip it apart.

If you are a wicca, or a satanist or any of the other occult things, chances are you don't truly know what it is. The 'recruiters' will lie and say anything to get you into their group. Be wary! Evil does walk among us. Demons reside just around the corner! Stay in the Light that is sent from God, don't walk in the shadows, dont walk in the darkness! Do'nt be afraid. As long as you have The Lord Jesus Christ, no demon, no devil, no follower of the monarch of hell can touch you.

Okay...

First off. Yes, magic, or magick however you wanna spell it, does exist.

But do not be deceived by the popular media or anything else, there is no such thing as 'good magick.' I have talked to many wiccas in my days and they all say the same thing. They will use this 'power' they found for good. They beleive that magick is a line, with white at one side, black at the other and gray in the middle. The only problem is that there is no white. there is no gray. the line is black. Pure and Simple. Magick is from the pit of hell.

They think that they have control over this power they have found. They think that magick is some source or 'stream' running through the universe that can be grasped and manipulated at will. All it is is a demon tricking you, trying to tell you that you have power when in reality, they are just putting a collar on you. They are binding you with chains of darkness that can only be broken with the Light of God.

I know that all of this harry potter and fantasy stuff make it seem fun. And it is attractive, trust me i enjoy reading dragonlance and forgotten realms and all this stuff with magick in it, but you can't dabble in it. You shouldn't even play around with the 'light' stuff. Like a ((i cant ever remember how to spell this)) Wigi Board. The devil will use any foothold he can to get into your life and rip it apart.

If you are a wicca, or a satanist or any of the other occult things, chances are you don't truly know what it is. The 'recruiters' will lie and say anything to get you into their group. Be wary! Evil does walk among us. Demons reside just around the corner! Stay in the Light that is sent from God, don't walk in the shadows, dont walk in the darkness! Do'nt be afraid. As long as you have The Lord Jesus Christ, no demon, no devil, no follower of the monarch of hell can touch you.

Its an "Ouiji Board". Your view of Magic is satanic, and that is natural because you follow christian ideas or you are a christian. With my non-religion experience, I do believe that magic is facing a bit more towards the dark side, but of course we are tampering with unknown forces, good or bad. Ouiji boards practiced with apprentices or novices wont be able to call spirits because of their lack of knowledge of real occult magic. In the end, nothing happens and only the hands move because they want it to move.

Are you trying to pursuade others to not practice magic? Well, its not that we are persuading them to. Its their choice. They have to face the responsibilities whether they like it or not. Jesus will not always save everyone.

I don't really care about a demon tricking you... XD If I enjoy and I see nothing wrong with it and it's very... "me," then heck, I don't care if it means being a satanist.

In other words, who I am is more important than demons tricking me or tampering with evil.

Yes I'm trying to pursuade others not to practice it. I'm trying to save people from the horrors that will come with the practice of magick and the occult. It will bring only death, pain and ultimately destruction. I hate it when people give demons a foothold in our world. This earth spiraling ever faster towards the end, and i want to try and save as many people as i can. Think about it. Is a little fun on your short time on this earth worth an eternity of pain? People don't realize what it means. Eternity means forever. you will be given no other choice, this is your place of choice. So you can choose life or death. If you choose death, then i suppose there is nothing i can do, but I will keep on trying anyways.

Dont bother trying to save other people, because...

Saving one person means that you didn't save the other.

Enjoy life as it is, and dont try to bring people to your side. They can find out for themselves.

Yes I'm trying to pursuade others not to practice it. I'm trying to save people from the horrors that will come with the practice of magick and the occult. It will bring only death, pain and ultimately destruction. I hate it when people give demons a foothold in our world. This earth spiraling ever faster towards the end, and i want to try and save as many people as i can. Think about it. Is a little fun on your short time on this earth worth an eternity of pain? People don't realize what it means. Eternity means forever. you will be given no other choice, this is your place of choice. So you can choose life or death. If you choose death, then i suppose there is nothing i can do, but I will keep on trying anyways.
If people truely and strongly believe in magick or what ever you are trying to convince them of not oing then you aren't going to succeed. Just like I wouldn't succeed in convincing you to abandon your beliefs (from what I can see). You can try all you want. I am defienately am going to be one f the people who you cant convince otherwise. I study magick. Wizardry to be exact. Where have you seen the pain and/ or horror you speak of for yourself?

I very much don't believe in magic, magick, magique, or however you want to spell it. About as far as I go into any of that is psychology books on hypnotism. How, I pray thee, do you study it? When I study counterpoint, I work out exercises, and when I'm done, I can see that I've accomplished what the text-book intended. I seriously doubt that you can do the same with magic(k), unless of course, you have a book on how to do magic tricks.
I'm sure you REALLY want magic(k) to exist, and so you get a funky feeling as you chant pseudo-latin and draw little Celtic symbols, but I doubt very seriously that you're channeling some greater power.

@SafeGuard
Yeah, demons getting footholds really bugs me too. I mean, I was at McDonald's the other day and they've started hiring them to power the grills. Pretty soon they're going to be working the grills, then managing the grill workers, then managing the managers. We need stricter demon-immigration laws--they're stealing all our jobs.

I'd like to believe in such a thing as "magic," but I don't because it doesn't make sense to me; not as people on this thread defined it anyways. Moreover, I think most people's opinion and beliefs here have been heavily influenced by the watching of too many animes and etc.

Sorry. :heh:

Yes I'm trying to pursuade others not to practice it. I'm trying to save people from the horrors that will come with the practice of magick and the occult. It will bring only death, pain and ultimately destruction. I hate it when people give demons a foothold in our world. This earth spiraling ever faster towards the end, and i want to try and save as many people as i can. Think about it. Is a little fun on your short time on this earth worth an eternity of pain? People don't realize what it means. Eternity means forever. you will be given no other choice, this is your place of choice. So you can choose life or death. If you choose death, then i suppose there is nothing i can do, but I will keep on trying anyways.

First of all, I believe nothing that you said, and I still would very much like to practice magick. Next of all, my life is mine, so don't go around trying to change it. :bleh:

EDIT: @Nicolas: I can only say you're being reasonable if you're an atheist, and if that is what you are, then be my guest and don't belive in it. ^_^

Moreover, I think most people's opinion and beliefs here have been heavily influenced by the watching of too many animes and etc.

Sorry. :heh:

Yeah, I've been picking up on that vibe.

Yeah, I've been picking up on that vibe.

LoL. They all think they're Gaara. XD

EDIT: @Nicolas: I can only say you're being reasonable if you're an atheist, and if that is what you are, then be my guest and don't belive in it. ^_^

I'm not an atheist, but then again I don't fit easily in any category. I mean, I believe in God, but you know, there's a lot of stuff from other religions that I find meaningful as well, and then I ask myself: "What if?" So I'm kinda confused. But I know I believe there's a higher being over us.

And now, that is not magick. Not to me, anyways. It would be something else, something spiritual. Just like spirits or souls, you know. It depends on how you conceive...

What I was denying, though, is the conception of this forum's people of magick. Black magic, white magic, love charms, abracadabra... nonsense to me, that is. :heh:

Oh but then, on the other hand, everyone has the right to an opinion, and I might just be the one who's wrong...

Well we do know one type of magic that actually exists and that you can see with your own eyes.


Stage Magic.

Now you cant say that magic doesnt exist. :P

Oh, please. That is almost as useless a post as that one of SafeGuards. It does nothing to help your argument either.
Personally I believe in charms that can be used to help people. Not quite in the same way though. I'll give you an example.
I once went out on a weekend and bought a lovely little tumbled moonstone. It's supposed to be good for studying. I brought it to school with me by accident. That day I had a surprise history test.
So I took my little moonstone out of my pocket and placed it on the desk in front of me while doing my test. The test took half a lesson and we watched a video while the teacher marked it.
Lo and behold I got full marks and the best mark on the test out of my whole class.
One of my less academic friends thought this was totallty awesome and so I gave her the stone to help her with her work. And on her next test she brought in the stone and got the highest mark in the class.
This, in some people's opinion, might be called magick. I don't believe so in the traditional sense.
I know for a fact that I am good at history. I also know that my friend understood history but wasn't good at writing essays or doing tests. I attribute her, and my, good performance on the tests to the stone being an alternative source of attention rather than worrying about the result of the test.
I don't believe in magick as a force that can be harnessed, black and white magick or telepathy and telekinesis. And I have done lots of research into it.
I do believe in using objects that supposedly have 'power' to help yourself. Not throught the objects supposed power but through the self confidence it might give you or how if you think it will work then your mind will make it work. Much like a placebo.
That is magic enough in my opinion.

Nicely said, Squiggle
but one point, you dont consider the magic as tool to change one's mind? (yours in your case). it's the most traditional use of magic i think. Those fire blasts people consider as magic are quite secondary, and (i'm interested in such thingies) even single blast would drain too much energy from one's body and leave him breathless, hence it's impossible to be a magician that wipes out whole armies with his devastating blasts.
Fear God, people, dont use magic.
And i saw someone thought the word magick is for real "magic", and simply magic is for fun/games or whatever? the truth is, magick is older english word noone uses now (except mad people thinking they are XXI age magicians), nothing more.


By the way, my first post here, in Ichigos (i came to download "Hauru no ugoku shiro" main themes), and just couldnt unnotice You, nice people, taking about such stuff XD

No, Sandaugo, I think you're misunderstanding me. What I don't believe about magic is the fire blasts and casting circle to call upon deities. I do believe that using little charms such as carrying a certain stone in your pocket helps you because you think it will help you. Then you go about with more confidence and it does help you. Not because they have intrinsic power but because your mind makes it so.
And you're right. That is what the primary basis of magic is. I just wish some people would actually learn that it's not as breath taking as they think it is and get the facts. Movies are great to watch, I love them, but they aren't real life. And that goes for comics, stories, manga, TV shows and cartoons as well.

Heh, anyone with such point of view, as your, Squiggle, will end up being the one right.
Whatever is that magic, it starts in one's head indeed, not in heaven or hell. I suppose i just want to believe in it, because i'm slightly dissapointed in reality.
Anyway, discussions about magic usually get prolonged and pointless, because people talk about the same thing in different ways (mostly based on the animes they watched :heh: )

Very true.
I have to admit, I used to think about magic in the way of anime and such. for much the same reason you describe. :heh: That's how I got into it. But then after practising and experimenting I came up with my current view on it.

Yeah, demons getting footholds really bugs me too. I mean, I was at McDonald's the other day and they've started hiring them to power the grills. Pretty soon they're going to be working the grills, then managing the grill workers, then managing the managers. We need stricter demon-immigration laws--they're stealing all our jobs.

Dang it! I hate those stupid demons from "south of the border!" (PUN VERY MUCH INTENDED) They're such a menace to society!^.^

There is no magic. If there was how come no one has comeout and showed us? Do you actually think that if there was magic, everyone who had it would hide it? HELL NO!!!!

There is no magic. If there was how come no one has comeout and showed us? Do you actually think that if there was magic, everyone who had it would hide it? HELL NO!!!!

I am sure many people would be excited and want to show their magic skills infront of their friends, but many people's reaction would be like "omg thats freaky". Also there could be restrictions and penalties if used in public. (I'm only showing you the possibilities.)

Magic could also have hidden meanings, or it could be something we always overlook as a "non-applicable" thing to magic. For example we can say Nature. What really makes nature unravel such destruction if it was not caused by man? If you say it was god's actions, then couldnt you consider his actions magic? If not, then what do you call it as?

No, Sandaugo, I think you're misunderstanding me. What I don't believe about magic is the fire blasts and casting circle to call upon deities. I do believe that using little charms such as carrying a certain stone in your pocket helps you because you think it will help you. Then you go about with more confidence and it does help you. Not because they have intrinsic power but because your mind makes it so.
And you're right. That is what the primary basis of magic is. I just wish some people would actually learn that it's not as breath taking as they think it is and get the facts. Movies are great to watch, I love them, but they aren't real life. And that goes for comics, stories, manga, TV shows and cartoons as well.

It's not magic then. It's just a chain-reaction coming from the fact that you believe that the rock has power, thus you have more self-confidence. Someone could use this to dissipate stage fright or something. But it has nothing to do with magic, in my opinion...

Beside, there are details you didn't mention. That exam might've been super easy, or maybe you're a school genius or something. :P

Magic could also have hidden meanings, or it could be something we always overlook as a "non-applicable" thing to magic. For example we can say Nature. What really makes nature unravel such destruction if it was not caused by man? If you say it was god's actions, then couldnt you consider his actions magic? If not, then what do you call it as?

What if nature's unravelling of such destruction was caused by nothing more than some sort of movement from the Earth or I-dunno-what? No magic in there, just science...

Then again, if you come back to me saying "Yeah, and what causes that movement from the Earth thingy-majigg?," well we could still speak from a scientific point of view saying that the electron and blah blah blah. And if you go and ask "Okay, but at the very base why does it move?" and you really want to imply God, I guess it depends on your conception of magic and what you call it. I mean, if for me a hamburger looks like a guitar, then I guess a guitar is like an hamburger, you know, it just depends on how you see it...

But again, magic, by true definition, is not what I would call it.

Nicolas, what do you tin of the Loch Ness Monster?

No, Sandaugo, I think you're misunderstanding me. What I don't believe about magic is the fire blasts and casting circle to call upon deities. I do believe that using little charms such as carrying a certain stone in your pocket helps you because you think it will help you. Then you go about with more confidence and it does help you. Not because they have intrinsic power but because your mind makes it so.
And you're right. That is what the primary basis of magic is. I just wish some people would actually learn that it's not as breath taking as they think it is and get the facts. Movies are great to watch, I love them, but they aren't real life. And that goes for comics, stories, manga, TV shows and cartoons as well. *tears* so beautiful!... Seriously I believe in the Bible that this is really what Jesus was trying to tell them, it's not so much anything happening, just your faith helps things out. I rarely get sick and I know that it's because I convince my mind that I can't be sick so my body dismisses illnesses faster (not that it was never there at all) than my siblings. Sometimes it's just a matter that you need something to believe in, then your drive and will can come to a max capacity, magic is merely using the same concept but with a different symbol of focus.

Nicolas, meet DiamondSeraph. Any thing I would have to say in response to your quite validly raised objections have already been raised by him in the above post.
As you've said, it's your opinion. And what I said is mine.
Oh, and I can assure you that there were NO easy tests in that history class and I am by no means a school genius. XD

If you ask me, it's rather silly to still believe in magic. The concept is incredibly obsolete. It made sense back when we knew little about the laws of physics and we needed explanations as to why things happened the way they did (lightning, mental illness) and looked for ways to influence nature to our benefit. These days, however, there really is no need for the concept as science and technology fill those rôles rather effectively.

One could also ask what the need for religion is today because it too filled the roles that you are describing for magic.
Do you not believe in religion?

One could also ask what the need for religion is today because it too filled the roles that you are describing for magic.
Do you not believe in religion?
Beat me to it.

One could also ask what the need for religion is today because it too filled the roles that you are describing for magic.
Do you not believe in religion?

No, I don't, actually, and for the same reasons.

Fair enough. It's conviction like that that should be respected. Although I don't share it personally. But that's the spice of life and without it everything would get stagnant and boring.

Science is no fun. It takes the wonder at of everything. People don't look at the stars and say they are the beautiful lights of the night sky anymore. Now they are just balls of gas in space. Well, I know consider magick to be what science can not explain. Yesterdays magick might as well be todays science and vice versa.

But, we must remember that dispite who "advanced" we are, we still know very litlle about the universe and the things beyond it. We still don't evenknow a lot of the things on Earth. Before, some scientists believed okapi (I think that's the name) and the platypus to be non-existent. Even when the platyous was literally in front of there face and they were starring right at it they didn't believe it to be real. <_< Human ignorance. I honestly have to say, just because there is no proof, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Science is no fun. It takes the wonder at of everything. People don't look at the stars and say they are the beautiful lights of the night sky anymore. Now they are just balls of gas in space.

Well get used to it. No one ever said reality was fun.

Science is no fun. It takes the wonder at of everything. People don't look at the stars and say they are the beautiful lights of the night sky anymore. Now they are just balls of gas in space.

Oh, I bet a lot of scientists like to look at the stars because they're beautiful. Don't you think that, if someone's interested in astronomy, the fact that they know they're gas balls in space, might actually enhance their pleasure? I mean, imagine when they know from books how stars are born, or die, and they see pictures for the first time, or even little films.

There's a lot of wonder in science. It's the wonder of discovery; not the knowing afterwards, really. "Knowing everything" must be the nightmare of a scientist, because there's nothing left to discover. No more surprises, etc.

What the scientific world view does not support, though, is the view that "the stars watch over us". But, then, there's nothing in science that says you can't still believe that. (It's just that you souldn't complain to a scientist if you believe the stars watch over you, and it turns out they didn't. That's for philosophers or priests or magicians to talk about.)


Well, I know consider magick to be what science can not explain. Yesterdays magick might as well be todays science and vice versa.

Yep, people often know more than science can explain. You're right, here, I think.


We still don't evenknow a lot of the things on Earth. Before, some scientists believed okapi (I think that's the name) and the platypus to be non-existent. Even when the platyous was literally in front of there face and they were starring right at it they didn't believe it to be real. <_<

As far as I know, they what they stared at was a platypus or an okapi after the taxidermist was through with it. There was a good reason they didn't believe they were real. These preserved animals tended to show up in huge collections that housed other fantastical creatures, which had been faked for the sake of profit. (Normal hares with deer horns tacked on, etc. - I've seen one of those collections in a castle made musueum.)

Eventually, they found out that those beasties do exist (the platypus & okapi, not the hare with tucked on horns). Imagine how excited the first western zoologist to see an okapi or a platypus alive must have been. Such moments are very exciting. Imagine some scientist would discover a giant sloth in some South American jungle, or if they found a live tasmanian tiger, which they thought extinct.

Science isn't everything, but it has its own set of wonders. :)

Science is no fun. It takes the wonder at of everything. People don't look at the stars and say they are the beautiful lights of the night sky anymore. Now they are just balls of gas in space. Well, I know consider magick to be what science can not explain. Yesterdays magick might as well be todays science and vice versa.

Yeah, 'cept not. Science has a beauty all it's own. Also, how do you "study" magic? Do you have a teacher or do you do a home-study course?

They go to Hogwarth's ;)

They go to Hogwarth's ;)
:P :lol: :P



we must remember that dispite who "advanced" we are

Were advanced? I like to think as humans as the best in the training levels of an mmorpg, you can be the best around, but your still a n00b to most. (weird comparison I know)

and yeah I was gonna say some stuff but Dawnstrom managed to word it way better and added some stuff of his own Good Job!:thumb:

Yeah, 'cept not. Science has a beauty all it's own. Also, how do you "study" magic? Do you have a teacher or do you do a home-study course?
I guess you could say the home-study course wel.. both sorta. Yeah, I have to admit that I like science in a sense but it has kinda made people close-minded about certain things. I contradict myself a lot. :\ Yeah.

Yeah.

@Angelic
That was priceless.

Science sucks. Because of science people continuously look for the answer to things that are staring them in the face. I knew a girl who had two thumbs, she told the hospital, they thought it was a joke and kicked her out, (she wanted to get one taken off). Then they found it was real and got her in for tests to study it.

I take it you mean she had two thumbs on one hand or foot, if not pardon my ignorance, but as you worded it it took me a while to understand that. Maybe Im just thick.

Yeah, you don't win the clarity award for the day.

Nor do I see how "science sucks" because of that.

me neither but still no matter how old you are never stop beiliving in magic because it is definetly in this world. Even if science disproves it at every turn its still here. How else would you think that some people can stick swords though their body and not even bleed when your pull it out.

How else would you think that some people can stick swords though their body and not even bleed when your pull it out.


I've never seen a person stick a sword in their body and not even bleed.

NOW you must search the internet for a video!!! Go pikachow!!!!!!!

Altho I think hes right, places like through yoour nose or lip... or cheeck for that matter.

me neither but still no matter how old you are never stop beiliving in magic because it is definetly in this world. Even if science disproves it at every turn its still here. How else would you think that some people can stick swords though their body and not even bleed when your pull it out.

Easy. Anatomy.

Science sucks. Because of science people continuously look for the answer to things that are staring them in the face. I knew a girl who had two thumbs, she told the hospital, they thought it was a joke and kicked her out, (she wanted to get one taken off). Then they found it was real and got her in for tests to study it.

I'm sure with magic you would have whizzed it away?

Nicolas, what do you tin of the Loch Ness Monster?

Well, aren't the only proofs of its existence some blurry photographs? Call me skeptical, but I think it's a fake...

it was on national geographic last time. These people stuck an ice pick through a docters mouth but he didnt bleed at all. After that he made a long spear thingy go through head yet he didnt bleed and he said it didnt hurt either @-@ scared me.

@ nicolas: well loch ness might be fake but other creatures might still be out there right ^_^ there could be a world of creatures that we still havent discovered yet.

@ nicolas: well loch ness might be fake but other creatures might still be out there right ^_^ there could be a world of creatures that we still havent discovered yet.

Sure, but it doesn't imply them being related to "magic" in any way. -_-

There is, infact if im not mistaken recently (IDK how long ago) they discovered thesee tube like animals, both in wate and air, originaly they were thought to be a mistake on shots for a movie/documentarie.

That was proven to be insects. Look at Canada's Ogopgo creature and Champ from America's Lake Champlain, Sightings of these creatures can be traced to over 400 years ago. hell look at the Cealocanth until 1923 everyone though they have gone extinct 70 million years ago.
This is all apart of Crypto-Zoology not magick and doesn't belong in a thread about magick. and BTW Nessie was first reported in the 15th century and is not some 20th century idea. Thr documents are there. weather it still lives today is a diferent story.

it was on national geographic last time. These people stuck an ice pick through a docters mouth but he didnt bleed at all. After that he made a long spear thingy go through head yet he didnt bleed and he said it didnt hurt either @-@ scared me.

Actually, I'm told that boils down to mental discipline, not to mention where and how the spike goes in. No magic involved (BTW, I hate the spelling "magick").

That was proven to be insects. Look at Canada's Ogopgo creature and Champ from America's Lake Champlain, Sightings of these creatures can be traced to over 400 years ago. hell look at the Cealocanth until 1923 everyone though they have gone extinct 70 million years ago.
This is all apart of Crypto-Zoology not magick and doesn't belong in a thread about magick. and BTW Nessie was first reported in the 15th century and is not some 20th century idea. Thr documents are there. weather it still lives today is a diferent story.

I apologise, I was talking about this, now I see that Nicholas posted something similar to what you just said.


@ nicolas: well loch ness might be fake but other creatures might still be out there right there could be a world of creatures that we still havent discovered yet.

Back on topic... I believe there could be some sort of "magick" out there, however it would not be magick as we know it, something far more complicated and or completely diferent.

Back on topic... I believe there could be some sort of "magick" out there, however it would not be magick as we know it, something far more complicated and or completely diferent.

I have to agree with you on that one, there are probably a lot stuff out there that people might call "magick", but only because we can't study (maybe yet), or maybe can't even fully compreehend what we studied.

I'm not talking about fire spells or anything like that though, but more along the lines of what many would consider supernatural, miracle, etc.

"Well, aren't the only proofs of its existence some blurry photographs? Call me skeptical, but I think it's a fake..."

Actually, they have found a mostly-decayed corpse of what they believe to me a miniature plesiosaur, which is Nessie's species. It was brought up in a fishing boat in a net. It was in a book I read. Therefore, plesiosaurs very well may have survived the extinction and live on in Loch Ness and other bodies of water.

that would really be cool if they were found though.

"Well, aren't the only proofs of its existence some blurry photographs? Call me skeptical, but I think it's a fake..."

Actually, they have found a mostly-decayed corpse of what they believe to me a miniature plesiosaur, which is Nessie's species. It was brought up in a fishing boat in a net. It was in a book I read. Therefore, plesiosaurs very well may have survived the extinction and live on in Loch Ness and other bodies of water.
Also, I read there is a possibility of an underground thing that "Nessie" could go through to leave Loch Ness. But Jenni is right, this is off topic.

I can't say that I believe in the hocus pocus use toads tongue for potions and the like, I do however believe that there are many things that man's mind cannot comprehend, forces that are beyond are earthly reach. Call it what you will.

"Well, aren't the only proofs of its existence some blurry photographs? Call me skeptical, but I think it's a fake..."

Actually, they have found a mostly-decayed corpse of what they believe to me a miniature plesiosaur, which is Nessie's species. It was brought up in a fishing boat in a net. It was in a book I read. Therefore, plesiosaurs very well may have survived the extinction and live on in Loch Ness and other bodies of water.

Honestly, with all the technology we have, sonars, radars and such, I think we should've been able to prove its existence a long time ago. I mean, this is not an anti-radar submarine, right? It's supposedly a huge dinosaur. If it does exist, how could we not have spotted it before?!

Depth of water, inkyness(sp?), speed of Nessie, people maybe saw and were skeptical so they thought it was probably just something else. Wanna explain a huge wave happen in a loch? Anyway, this is off topic.

I want a nessie video game ... where you scan .. and scan,, and scan for it, then at the end it makes a giant wave, sinks your ship and eats you!

Seriously I think I gave up on nessie, somthing that big cant move that fast.. and about the inkyness of the water.. if they really wanted to they could set up a giant web of scanners or whatever and get it.
Theoreticaly it leaving is the only excuse we can give for not finding it.

Im thinking that they arent really looking, figuring out nessie dosent exist is a bad thing, How many people would stop visiting lochness? and it would kill one of the few "Mysteries" we have left.

While we're off topic and talking of the paranormal, I was reading the one book called weird USA. There are supposedl seven gates to Hell in York P.A. on the mortal plane. I think its just a folk tale but not to long ago a Finnish newspaper reported on a mining team that drillled about 9 miles in to the ground. They came across an airpocket and reportedly put a microphone done there to do some recon for further mining. What they supposedly heard were screams and shouts of agony of millions of humans. The temperture in the pocket was said to be 1000*F. The project was subsequently abadoned because the miners were so scared. Food for thought I guess

yeah we are so off topic its ok.. gosh I hate this, one more book to add to my list.

While we're off topic and talking of the paranormal, I was reading the one book called weird USA. There are supposedl seven gates to Hell in York P.A. on the mortal plane. I think its just a folk tale but not to long ago a Finnish newspaper reported on a mining team that drillled about 9 miles in to the ground. They came across an airpocket and reportedly put a microphone done there to do some recon for further mining. What they supposedly heard were screams and shouts of agony of millions of humans. The temperture in the pocket was said to be 1000*F. The project was subsequently abadoned because the miners were so scared. Food for thought I guess

Not quite...

http://www.snopes.com/religion/wellhell.htm

hey, thought so...

magicks does exist. all those of the light should burn in hellz

that's mean. u shouldn't say that u baka.

gomen. all those who are annoying should die by my powers over the Magicks of twilight

Read the rules you two, then you'll read that you're only allowed to speak English here. If you want to use random Japanese words go somewhere else, it's annoying.

great 2 fanboys who can speak the minimal amount of japanese who are more than likely from the same place who already knew each other decided to come on to an anime forum where they thought they could show of by speaking a couple of japanese words that almost everyone knows. and typing in leik zomg u noob i am teh 1337. you guys just earnt the noob award

L33t can get confusing, it took me two minutes to interpret that line...@_@

Why? Everyone's looking for an answer to all of their questions these days, about religion, money, success, love. Can't you all see that our ancestors from the beginning of time had it figured out? People could see the magick, they could actually hold conversations with faeries, and those who've passed, and actually *see* their all-powerful creator. All of the technology today, however, with the Church in the middle-ages has made the species nearly blind to all of it. If we can't feel it, hear it, smell it, or devise a test for it, it's not there. But, animals can sense it, still. If all humans just reverted back to Pre-Neolithic evolution, we could see. Yes, magick is real. Can we all see it work, no. Can we learn to see it? Yup. Absolutely, there's no reason why we can't. I already have a friend of a girl named Alison, who died a good hundred and fifty years ago, before I did. She says there are angels. She also says that The Creator is sometimes a male, sometimes a female, sometimes both, sometimes neither. Am I not to believe it, when two others besides myself were there? Hell no.

Wat a doozy, my fingers hurt.

Why? Everyone's looking for an answer to all of their questions these days, about religion, money, success, love. Can't you all see that our ancestors from the beginning of time had it figured out? People could see the magick, they could actually hold conversations with faeries, and those who've passed, and actually *see* their all-powerful creator. All of the technology today, however, with the Church in the middle-ages has made the species nearly blind to all of it. If we can't feel it, hear it, smell it, or devise a test for it, it's not there. But, animals can sense it, still. If all humans just reverted back to Pre-Neolithic evolution, we could see. Yes, magick is real. Can we all see it work, no. Can we learn to see it? Yup. Absolutely, there's no reason why we can't. I already have a friend of a girl named Alison, who died a good hundred and fifty years ago, before I did. She says there are angels. She also says that The Creator is sometimes a male, sometimes a female, sometimes both, sometimes neither. Am I not to believe it, when two others besides myself were there? Hell no.

wait....WHAT?
That makes no sense, you are saying that anything we dont understand is magick? ZOMG! Math is magick...im no wizard so I can just give that up!!!

a friend named allison who died 150 yrs ago... angels and the creator.... dude , I want some of what you're smokin (no offense)

Why? Everyone's looking for an answer to all of their questions these days, about religion, money, success, love. Can't you all see that our ancestors from the beginning of time had it figured out? People could see the magick, they could actually hold conversations with faeries, and those who've passed, and actually *see* their all-powerful creator. All of the technology today, however, with the Church in the middle-ages has made the species nearly blind to all of it. If we can't feel it, hear it, smell it, or devise a test for it, it's not there. But, animals can sense it, still. If all humans just reverted back to Pre-Neolithic evolution, we could see. Yes, magick is real. Can we all see it work, no. Can we learn to see it? Yup. Absolutely, there's no reason why we can't. I already have a friend of a girl named Alison, who died a good hundred and fifty years ago, before I did. She says there are angels. She also says that The Creator is sometimes a male, sometimes a female, sometimes both, sometimes neither. Am I not to believe it, when two others besides myself were there? Hell no.

:huh: ooookaaay, I love a good magic faerie story as much as the next guy, and I can appreciate a good epic story, lord of the rings and the ilk.

However, I think someone has been playing one to many MMORPGs.

*backs away very slowly*

By the way, are you Wicca or somethin'?

Magick, simply put, is what science is still unable to explain. What annoys be is when people say something along the lines of "Magic(k) isn't real because science says it is impossible." If science said it was possible wold you consider it magic(k)? No, you would consider it science.

I agree with phear.

I'm not smoking, I am wiccan, I contacted Alison through a Ouija board, and yes, I've also read that mystics in the ancient times could do all I listed and more. It's kind of sad that hardly anyone believes me, but I'm telling the truth as I know it.

It was just a random comment, (didnt mean it personaly) I plaed Quija a couple times...scared meself shitless and its something that...IDK makes me feel like I could be messing with something way bigger than me, so I decicded to get away from that kinda stuff.

I'm getting confused between magic and supernatural..................actually, they're the same thing right???

wait...............

maybe not..........

I am wiccan

Aha! I thought so.

Before we continue this discussion we must first compare the Wiccan definition of magic and the other definitions of magic. When someone says magic, I automatically think fireballs or magic missiles and what not. However, I would like to know how Wiccans describe or define magic (and how it works for that matter).

The same way everyone else who believes in magic thinks it works:

Magic only works when a skeptic isn't looking.

*ouch* to the Wicca

But seriously folks...are we discussing the abstract, charm like magic that is said to influence one's fate or the fate of others...

Or, are we talking flashy magic that can harm, burn or maim people with arcane wrath.

The definition of Magick to a wiccan is pretty simple. It's power blessed unto them by the Goddess and/or the Horned God (depending on the sect). Basically it the four elements and other aspects of nature; not disincluding several other gods/goddesses. Or at least this is what the wikipedia article said. I'm no expert at this.

Aha! I thought so.

Before we continue this discussion we must first compare the Wiccan definition of magic and the other definitions of magic. When someone says magic, I automatically think fireballs or magic missiles and what not. However, I would like to know how Wiccans describe or define magic (and how it works for that matter).
Wiccans aren't the only ones who study magics. Witches believe, depending on their religion, that the god(s) they worship were the one that gave them the gift. To (non-witch?) wiccans, it's a craft. At least, I think so. And no, magick doesn't include any balls of firework or light shows or that type of thing.

You can't see magic. To me, it's pretty much willing something to happen and it does. The Creator (I should call it) is an all powerful deity, because it *is* the Christian God, Islamic Allah, Wiccan Ammon and Hekate, Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu and any other God/Goddess that was ever created. The power of prayer is the same thing in Wicca as it is in Christianity, except lighting candles and intonating ancient runes. You can be Christian, and Wiccan at the same time, or any other religion, and still get the benefits of true magic. Ouija isn't harmful, as long as you light some candles and bless the circle beforing attempting to contact anyone. BTW, I've never heard of anyone shooting fireballs at anyone, except for a local crazy pyromaniac. And he said it once rained snails in his hometown. I don't believe him. :-)

You can be Christian, and Wiccan at the same time, or any other religion, and still get the benefits of true magic.

Oh yeah, that, too.


BTW, I've never heard of anyone shooting fireballs at anyone, except for a local crazy pyromaniac. And he said it once rained snails in his hometown. I don't believe him. :-)
Hehe, poor people who were on the other side of the fire balls.

I'm not smoking, I am wiccan, I contacted Alison through a Ouija board, and yes, I've also read that mystics in the ancient times could do all I listed and more. It's kind of sad that hardly anyone believes me, but I'm telling the truth as I know it.
*claps* Someone who agrees with me! ^_^ I believe you! 100%

Magick, simply put, is what science is still unable to explain. What annoys be is when people say something along the lines of "Magic(k) isn't real because science says it is impossible." If science said it was possible wold you consider it magic(k)? No, you would consider it science.

I agree with phear.

So hypotheticaly, if I was to go 500 years into the past with my brothers Ipod I would be a wizard with extreme power for their current technology doesnt expain where all this music and one Gundam Seed video is coming from other then a tiny box made of magical metal, hard white ivory, a magical peice of glass that lights up like the sun god and two snakes that sing when their metal tair is pushed into my magic box?

Wow.

So hypotheticaly, if I was to go 500 years into the past with my brothers Ipod I would be a wizard with extreme power for their current technology doesnt expain where all this music and one Gundam Seed video is coming from other then a tiny box made of magical metal, hard white ivory, a magical peice of glass that lights up like the sun god and two snakes that sing when their metal tair is pushed into my magic box?

Wow.
Well, yeah, they would consider you one. Or a god. I think they would call you a witch, though.

Wow, not only is that really stupid but Im going to be a femail magickckckckckc user.

Wow, not only is that really stupid but Im going to be a femail magickckckckckc user.
:eyebrow: umm wtf?

Wow, not only is that really stupid but Im going to be a femail magickckckckckc user.
A witch isn't only female. <_< There are male witches as there are female wizards.

A witch isn't only female. <_< There are male witches as there are female wizards.
Um no... Everyone is a witch. Regardless of gender.

Er...isn't that what they just said?

So hypotheticaly, if I was to go 500 years into the past with my brothers Ipod I would be a wizard with extreme power for their current technology doesnt expain where all this music and one Gundam Seed video is coming from other then a tiny box made of magical metal, hard white ivory, a magical peice of glass that lights up like the sun god and two snakes that sing when their metal tair is pushed into my magic box?

Wow.
Yeah they would think that's pretty amazing. Oh but wait, when was the last time that someone did something "magical" and "miraculas" that no one could explain? *gasp* Jesus! I don't think the church would like that.

Er...isn't that what they just said?
no such thing as a wizard or worlock. ;)

What's the difference, and does it matter? A rose by any other name is still a rose (sorcerer, enchantress, wizard, warlock, archmage, magician, spellcaster, etc.)

What's the difference, and does it matter? A rose by any other name is still a rose (sorcerer, enchantress, wizard, warlock, archmage, magician, spellcaster, etc.)
It kinda does... People who practice the wiccan faith are witches. Period. That's just how it goes. I don't know why. The word "warlock" means "truth twister" Now that dosen't quite fit, does it?

no such thing as a wizard or worlock. ;)

But witches are real.

Didn't witches do a lot of midwifing and that kind of stuff back in the day?

Who knows. All I know is that all these "witches" died because their husbands didnt like them a few hundred years ago. And the real witches could have come out of the closet and say they were really witches and save a bunch of females lives.

Oh, wait. Witches arnt real! I have enough proof to prove they arnt real and people who say they are real have little to none other then "Im Wiccan. I talk to trees."

EDIT - my proof is that there is no magic happening around in the world. That phone rang because someone called, not because Isasrus, the holy sister has beconed you to talk to houraphustis the tree nymph and caused a disruption with pixy dust in the phone line to tell you to do so.

Who knows. All I know is that all these "witches" died because their husbands didnt like them a few hundred years ago. And the real witches could have come out of the closet and say they were really witches and save a bunch of females lives.

Oh, wait. Witches arnt real! I have enough proof to prove they arnt real and people who say they are real have little to none other then "Im Wiccan. I talk to trees."

EDIT - my proof is that there is no magic happening around in the world. That phone rang because someone called, not because Isasrus, the holy sister has beconed you to talk to houraphustis the tree nymph and caused a disruption with pixy dust in the phone line to tell you to do so.

Why would then have to use the phone? :rolleyes:

Okay, I just want to clarify YOUR definition of a witch. Honestly... because by definition, wiccans ARE witches... And I'm positive that there ARE wiccans, therefore there ARE witches.

By the way, maybe you should learn a bit more about the prosecution of witches before you go talking like that.

But witches are real.
Not the hollywood kind, no. But witches are real, yes.

Why would then have to use the phone? :rolleyes:

Okay, I just want to clarify YOUR definition of a witch. Honestly... because by definition, wiccans ARE witches... And I'm positive that there ARE wiccans, therefore there ARE witches.

By the way, maybe you should learn a bit more about the prosecution of witches before you go talking like that.

Oh, Ive read plenty of the prosecutions of witches. Husbands said their wives were witches because they thought they wernt trust worthy or over fights. Some others were called witches because they had mental or physical dissabilities. It was usualy "she did that, he did this, she did it not me, I did this, no you didnt" type of crap. No magic.

For god sakes everyone was convinced Joan of Ark was a witch. EVERYONE was. If you were back then you would think so too. And yet she burned to the ground.

no such thing as a wizard or worlock. ;)
Yes there are. Warlocks are basically traders. For example a wiccan who joins a coven and then goes agaisnt the craft would be a warloc. Wiccans aren't the only witches.

And don't double post. it isn't really that hard to type in the quote tags and copy and paste.

The difference in tittle is generally the difference in the magick and/or how they use it.

Yes there are. Warlocks are basically traders. For example a wiccan who joins a coven and then goes agaisnt the craft would be a warloc. Wiccans aren't the only witches.
The difference in tittle is generally the difference in the magick and/or how they use it.
Hmm I didn't know that. :think:

I know.

Didn't witches do a lot of midwifing and that kind of stuff back in the day?

That relates back the the Salem incident. The witches cursing the child on birth, or instilling The Craft in them, causing the children to have visions and stuff. It was the church that came up with the idea that the first hand to touch the baby would cause a curse on their life (like Abigale(sp?)).

The entire Salem story is messed up. I did a rather large Annotation on it just a little while back.

Why are we all talking about witches now? Magick is not limited to self-proclaimed witches/wizards/warlocks, et cetera. (ME!)
Joan of Arc was not a magick-user though. Ever hear of the old joke?
If you're speaking to God, you're praying.
If God's speaking to you, you're a schizophrenic.

Witches and the like are related Magick. I think it's okay to talk about them.

Have any of you have ever seen real magic performed first hand? (not stage magic.)

But then again, what classifies as "real"?

What is real magic in the first place?

something paranormal, perhaps? An occurance that cannot be explained.

What is your definition of magic?

Somthing that is of magic... Theres a diffrence between what you cant explain and what is the paranormal.

Have any of you have ever seen real magic performed first hand? (not stage magic.)

But then again, what classifies as "real"?
From what I know and beleive "real" magic(k) is more of a ritual. Don't agree with me if you'd like, whatever, but that's what I think.

And yes, I have seen "real" magick first hand.

I have done real magick.
Believe me, if you do everything properly, you get results.

I've done magic(k) and I've experienced it. So yeah. I owe a lot to magic(k).

I have done real magick.
Believe me, if you do everything properly, you get results.

Results as in what? If you say you can at least tell us what exactly you did.

Yeah...sorry septer but that thing you told me bout dosent qualify as magick (to me) but then again im a ninja lovin weirdo.

Not the only thing I was talking about, but okay.

From what I know and beleive "real" magic(k) is more of a ritual. Don't agree with me if you'd like, whatever, but that's what I think.

And yes, I have seen "real" magick first hand.

I believe you about the ritual thing. Did you see it being performed, or did you really see results coming out of it?

I believe you about the ritual thing. Did you see it being performed, or did you really see results coming out of it?
Both ^_^ A wonderful experiance

Yeah, but my results went awry. (before any read the rest, take in mind, I was young and stupid and did not know the consequences.) I once did a ritual, asking that my crush, Josh, would love me, but I didn't specify which Josh, and so, a totally different Josh fell in love with me, and is still mooning over me to this day! It sucked. I was disapointed.

Not to discredit anything, but couldn't that just happen by chance?

Yes, yes they can. If you want somthing to happen you make it happen, but the thing is sometimes you dont know how you did it for you tried so hard and the only thing you can think up quickly is magickckckckckc.

Thats what I think.

Sorry, but for some reason, I don't take you seriously Radical Dreamer. (The magickckckckckckc may be it.) I do take M seriously though, because he can spell it right. Yes, it may be not real, but I believe it. Really, I don't care if you believe or not, it'd just be better if you believed what you did.

Yeah, but my results went awry. (before any read the rest, take in mind, I was young and stupid and did not know the consequences.) I once did a ritual, asking that my crush, Josh, would love me, but I didn't specify which Josh, and so, a totally different Josh fell in love with me, and is still mooning over me to this day! It sucked. I was disapointed.

:unsure: You know, I myself don't fancy the ritual-like magic that you speak of at all. Still, I totally respect your beliefs and even admit that there are many things that science alone can explain. One thing I like to know though is, in theory, if your magic did work and you did mange to bag a romantic admirer, you kinda took control of his being. What I'm saying is that the way you worded it, it sounds like you simply performed a magical service and managed to bind Josh's love, like an enchantment or mind control. The more I think about it, the more it kinda freaks me out to know that someone can take control of love, or anything as sacred as the human emotion or universe, and bend it to their whim.

I'm just saying in theory, is it even good magic to begin with? I could be missing something however. I don't the systems behind the ritual. Please explain.:think:

Techincally, according to the magik belief systems, that kind of thing would do more harm than good.
One of the major tenants is 'Do as thee will but harm none'. Clear violation there.

Although I would say that bending human emotion isn't strickly magic. That's basically what con artists and 'players' do. they manipulate people and their emotions to benefit themselves.

I edited the thread cos magick with a k just looks so wrong that it bugged me x_x

lol

The more I think about it, the more it kinda freaks me out to know that someone can take control of love, or anything as sacred as the human emotion or universe, and bend it to their whim.

Most of the time it just dosen't work that way.. I mean, what I beleive in is that if you want someone to do something, you don't always get results because of free will.

Yeah, but my results went awry. (before any read the rest, take in mind, I was young and stupid and did not know the consequences.) I once did a ritual, asking that my crush, Josh, would love me, but I didn't specify which Josh, and so, a totally different Josh fell in love with me, and is still mooning over me to this day! It sucked. I was disapointed.

Doing rituals of love will not work. It violates the rule of compensation and free will. You cannot control the will of other people, and if you try you will end up failing. Plus, there is no compensation for attaining love, since love is more than anyone can afford.

Controlling wealth is a possibility, since it does not have a will of its own and is considered an object.

Sorry, but for some reason, I don't take you seriously Radical Dreamer. (The magickckckckckckc may be it.) I do take M seriously though, because he can spell it right. Yes, it may be not real, but I believe it. Really, I don't care if you believe or not, it'd just be better if you believed what you did.

I did it because the Magic Magick Magik tihng was all to silly for the reason that "real" magic isnt true and that its silly to try and promote a bunch of diffrent spellings of the same word.

And it doesnt matter what I believe in. In fact, it doesnt matter what you believe in. What matters is to share it and try to find who is right.

And it doesnt matter what I believe in. In fact, it doesnt matter what you believe in. What matters is to share it and try to find who is right.
If that is how you feel about it then you shouldn't mock what others do believe. It only makes you look like an idiot and as Phear pointed out it prevents people from taking you seriously. You might want to stop, especially if you want others to listen and/or consider what you have to say.

I know attaining the love of him isn't really the right wording for this kind of thing, but I'd like everyone to think about with no feeling involved. I could say that I love him back, too, but in a different way(think brother and sister.) I could say a lot of things that would kill you all inside because of the cliches of it all, but I seriously believed I just got his attention, and he fell in love with me himself, with some assistance from the magick-usage.
To Squiggle: Believe me, I got consequences. "Ever mind the rule of three, What you gives out comes back to thee."
(I'm probably violating some thread no-nos by quoting a religious text, but it pertains to the current thread, right?)

Magic comes from the soul; from deep, bottomless pools of inarguable desire. People say it was "magic" that made something happen, and some think that they can control it. What it sort of is is that their spirit channels their want, and their hope, dreams, desire, and will, and uses it to create an unexplainable result. That has been dubbed "coinidence," "miracle," and "magic." Perhaps such energies from the spirit can be controlled, and perhaps not. Perhapd "God" really is just a collection of all the souls, their wills, their purity, and their energies. Perhaps it is the good in the hearts of all Earth's creatures that converge to be this omnipotent, sacred entity. Perhaps, just perhaps, God is everywhere because everywhere there is some living thing, no matter how small, with light, hope, and sacredity somewhere in their heart.

That is my speech. I don't know what you wil think of it, and I'm not sure what I myself think of it, but to me it makes sense and gives a sort of peace and a feeling of sanctuary.

Goody, someone can put it into words. Good for you! :)
Anyone who does not believe in ^, watch Chriss Angel Mindfreak.

Anyone who does not believe in ^, watch Chriss Angel Mindfreak.

Actually, Chris Angel is not a very good example (I'm not saying that I don't believe in it, 'cause I do, just that Angel is not the right example). He fooled me for a while, so I went to the website, and it clearly said that the stunts were illusions. x_x

How does he do it? The world may never know.

So... people like my theory? Yay!

What!? Illusions? Well, I still love the theme song.
Yes, Rodents210, we believe you.