I was wondering if I could get some help. I want to write a sonata, but I don't have any idea what the form is supposed to be. I read that traditional Classical sonatas had four movements, but that's all I could figure out. Can anyone help?

I don't know the specific restrictions on a "sonata", but many sonatas use the Sonata-Allegro form in their first movement:

Exposition
First Theme: in the tonic
Second Theme: in the dominant

Development
do what you want here, I think...

Recapitulation
First theme: in the tonic
Second theme: in the tonic
Coda

I seem to recall several third movements that are rondos:
ABACA or ABACABA, where each letter represents some musical theme.

The second movement tends to be shorter and slower than the first and the third, though that's not a requirement; I don't understand the form of the second movement, though...

And as I said before, I don't know what the limits are to calling something a "sonata"; this is just a description of the most "typical" sonatas...

Mainly, it's the first movment that's the sucky part. Because if it is to be a real "Sonata" you need the Sonata-Allegro form kinda. I don't know this for sure, but I've been told the forst movment must be in the EDR form, the others can be anything you want I think.

Essentially, you can do whatever you want. Sonatas have changed so much over time that it's a pretty open composition. But most sonatas follow what tanonev pointed out about the first movement.

I've always read that the official form goes something like:

1st movement
Sonata-Allegro

2nd movement
Slow (andante, largo, etc.)

3rd movement
Minuet

4th movement
Quick (rondo, sonata, etc)

I'm also told that one of them, usually the minuet, may be omitted for a three movement sonata. Apparently, though, in the Moonlight sonata, for example, the sonata allegro movement is omitted. As for the sonata allegro form, I really don't understand how it works, particularly the development section.

Look at Chopin's Sonata No. 2 in Bb Minor :

Movment 1:
Grave ; Dippio Movemento

Movment 2 :
Scherzo

Movment 3 :
Lento

Movment 4 :
Presto (Finale)

So I think I have just proved that you can do whatever you want. Plus, this is my favourite sonata from Chopin. ^_^

Are there seperations between the movements?

As in, "Do they need to stop with an ending, then start again from another introduction?"

No. Take Beethoven's (best I think) Sonata in D Major - "Les Adieux." The Second movment and Third Movment are supposted to blend into one another, not stop and start again, however, the third movment has a big chord that leads up from the ending from the secnomd movment.

This is also true for his (spelling..) "Apposonata" Sonata.

However, there is a definite contrast between adjacent movements. There might not be a temporal divider, but there will be a change of mood, touch, tempo, or the like.

You can even have a sonata with just two movements, if you'll take a look at Schubert's Unfinished Symphony (a symphony is just a large-scale sonata, right?). Then again, perhaps Schubert just got away with it.

Look at Beethoven's 5th symphony, how the third and fourth movements connect together. And Mendelssohn's Violin Concerto (which can also be argued to be a large-scale sonata) is particularly fun. So if you want, you can separate the movements.

@ Eddy, that's just the 'standard' scheme for teaching purposes. You don't have to strictly adhere to it. But you're right, the minuet/trio can be omitted. However, it can be also be replaced by the scherzo and trio, as was commonly done with Beethoven.

The development section may use material from the Exposition, developing motives and themes, create new material, modulating to this key and that, creating tension and drama that will eventually lead back to the Recapitulation. If you study some famous examples, you'll see that it's not just all random. There's a point to it. And it sounds damn good.

What's the recapitulation supposed to consist of?

I don't know the specific restrictions on a "sonata", but many sonatas use the Sonata-Allegro form in their first movement:

Exposition
First Theme: in the tonic
Second Theme: in the dominant

Development
do what you want here, I think...

Recapitulation
First theme: in the tonic
Second theme: in the tonic
Coda

Ooops.

I've never really understood just what development means. According to Schoenberg's Fundamentals of Musical Composition, the development section takes motifs and themes from the exposition and puts them through rapidly changing harmonies via sequencing and liquidation. That's about as close as I've come to getting a real explanation of the concept.

According to Schoenberg's Fundamentals of Musical Composition, the development section takes motifs and themes from the exposition and puts them through rapidly changing harmonies via sequencing and liquidation.

Well, I can't explain it much better than that, really :P. But like the name implies, there'll be a lot of change that occurs during "development" sections. I try to think of development as a section to introduce new ideas, or do signicant variations of old ideas, or simply a very dynamic section as counterpoint to more static sections (recapulation, for example).

I have a dumb question, but...what's "in the tonic" and "in the dominant?"

I have a dumb question, but...what's "in the tonic" and "in the dominant?"

It refers to the key. For example if a sonata is in the key of C major, the 1st theme will be in C and the 2nd theme will be in its dominant key, G.

OH!!! Ok, I get it now. Sorry, I just needed a refresher.

So, if I were to compose a Sonata, with a movement for each season, and I started with winter, would this be good form for sonata?

Winter
Quick, echoey, in the key of C (Actually D Dorian Minor, but key sig is no sharps/flats). It emphasizes visions of snow and reflections and uses the high range of the piano.

Spring
Development, a moderate tempo with shorter notes for faster sections as opposed to tempo change, and in the key of G, but actually using a whole tone scale or something mystical like that. This movement has the first climax. It features thunderstorms and sun coming through the clouds, as well as a sound of rebirth. This movement uses both extremes of the piano's range.

Summer
More material from Winter being Developed, repeated, and expanded upon, utilising the key of G, once again. This piece also has it's own climax that should be emphasized seperately from that in the previous movement. This movement is happy, warm, lazy, and slow. It is at a moderate dynamic level and is different that the others. It uses more romantic(period)-sounding chord progressions.

Fall
A resolution to the piece, reiterating themes from the Winter movement and having a falling amount of movement, ending with an almost unresolved sounding chord/arpeggio to suggest the movement back into winter. It also switches in and out of major and minor, ending in minor to suggest the transition from the life of summer to the cold of winter. It is quick, and uses a rondo form, ending with a coda.

Did I get the tonic/dominant thing right, or is it messed up?

Edit: sorry about the double post.

I think you somehow mixed up Sonata-Allegro (which is fully contained in the first movement) with the entire sonata.

As for the idea of doing the 4 seasons: Overall, it's an interesting idea, but the details need some work.
If the first movement has no climax, your audience will kill you (or the unfortunate performer) :P
Different movements can carry hints of the ideas of each other, but they should be able to stand on their own themes. Otherwise they wouldn't be different movements, but different sections within a movement.

Oh oops :blush:. I guess I was skim reading... That means I'm going to have to completely rething that, doesn't it? So...maybe I don't understant the tonic/dominant thing after all. Does it have to do with the chord, in this case, or the key signature?@_@ Did I get the rest right, besides that part? Should I make them have a relating melody, or just barely hint at the same melody? Also, are there particular forms for the other section?