So... is there anyone who believes in evil spirits possessing people? I read that there is only one documented exorcism (in modern history) and it was of a 13-year-old boy in the US about 40 years ago or something like that. He was using an Ouija (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouija) board. I have a close friend who seriously believes in this tool, and has warned me numerous times to never ever get in touch with one.

Any thoughts?

Robbie Doe's exorcism. (http://www.prairieghosts.com/exorcist.html)

I dunno' if I believe it or not. There do seem to be some facts that it really happened. Rather disturbing if you ask me. :mellow:;

The Exorcist is, according to the limited ed- DVD, based on a true story. Everything was basicaly true other then the gender of the child.

I dont know really... A lot of people claim its true, have pictures of exorcisms and videos of it... but If I say its real and claim religion to be crap im not that consistant. There is probably some reasoning to it for the real world like:

You are religious. You act weird once so everyone in your church says your possessed. They say so thus you think you are. Then when you get exorcised you then believe that you are okay for everyone else says you are.

Mental suggestion.

*pokes Noir(what, you dared me! o_o)* I'm not so sure if I believe in possession or anything. I mean, I watch DVD's about it all the time, and honestly, they're so cheesy they make me laugh...
I agree with the comment above though. I mean, it could be kinda like that.

This reminds me of story of Bloody Mary or whatever. No one's proved she exists, yet no one's proved otherwise... (mostly because people are too scared to try it or something..)

First of all, I'd like to say that personally, exorcism is one of my favorite aspects of Christianity.

Anyway, exorcism is still praticed today and has close ties to demonology(which is an actual theological study in Catholicism and some Protestant denominations). It is most associated however, with the Catholic Church (who has officially concluded the existence of such beings) and the accounts that the church has documented.

The prerequisites for the rite of Exorcism consist of the following...

*Talking in ancient languages and knowing certain facts that the victim has no previous knowledge of.

*Displaying supernatural abilities and strength.

*Blasphemous speaking.

*Aversion or harm from holy or sacred objects (rosaries, crosses, crucifixes, etc.)

In short, one can aqcuire demonic influence by breaching spiritual barriers (many times accidently) and sometimes bringing fort a more malicious spirit than the one intended (as in tarot card, ouija boards and the like).

i dont know about u guys but after reading the davinci code and watching some of the documentaries ... i kinda doubt the vatican faith ... i mean ... if what the documentary says is true jesus may not be son of god at all ... asking judas to 'betray' him .. it really makes you think about demons and spirits and if they really exist ... i dont really believe in them cause i have never had any experience with the supernaturall ... should i count myself lucky or not ? lols ...

anyways exorcism doesnt only exist in christianity .. there are so many stories about bomohs (witch doctors) and priests in asia ... i have seen many movies about these exorcisms and some true stories that were acted out ... its quite amazing actually !! makes u wonder ...

actually i do like christianity ... i mean the angels and demons theory .. its so cool ... but i cant possibly become a christian just for that ... besides i am supposedly a buddhist ... actually a free-thinker .. i dunno what to believe ... i believe that there is only one god in the whole universe and it is just a pure river of energy is never ending ... if i visualize it it kinda looks like the milky way ^^ ... dang .. i have kinda gone off track ...

so what do u think ..?

"The Exorcism of Emily Rose" was apparently based on a true story <-- my two cents.

^^Well, that was a little off topic...:huh:

Back to the subject, its true what sumrscent said, demonic essence and evil spirits are a recuring theme in many religions and especially dualistic cults. Truthfully, even if you don't believe in freaky deaky demon and angels stuff (which is I'm still gonna say is super cool), I would advise not to test mere coincidence. I myself don't believe angels and demons to be major part of the Christian faith, but I'm always sure to stay away from the divinating arts, black magic stuff. That stuff just creeps me out for some reason...

I have a hard time believing these stuff too >.< Yet it's weird how they found evidence of all kinds of exorcism from ancient times, and all of them describes the same things - even though the people were from different parts of the world, surely never got in contact with eachother.

I read the link to the article about the Robbie guy, and i've always had the same thoughts on the matter as the parapsychologist- that it is the unconscious mind that causes such incidents.

looking at the criteria of the catholic church:

1)Talking in ancient languages and knowing certain facts that the victim has no previous knowledge of.

not so much ancient languages, but languages in general can be affected by the unconscious mind- example when from college we went to a hypnosis show the hypnotist picked volunteers, one of which was someone in my psychology class- and he left her under in the interval and told her she must speak in Japanese the whole time- which she did (not that im fluent in Japanese but i know enough about it to know it wasn't faked)- and i know for a fact she doesnt know a word of Japanese because she was always so "wow" about the fact i was learning it.

as for knowing random facts about something you've never come into contact with- i dont know about anyone here, but i get that all the time? it's nothing more than a deja vu type experience?

2) Displaying supernatural abilities and strength.

well... it depends what you class as supernatural abilities really, but i believe in psychic abilities... i mean we only use a bit of the brain- who knows what the rest can do... plus we all find we can do certain things beyond what we'd think possible of ourselves when we are in extreme situations right?

3) Blasphemous speaking.

god, people do that all the time... it's the equivalent of shouting 'witch' at all women with black cats

4) Aversion or harm from holy or sacred objects (rosaries, crosses, crucifixes, etc.)

that doesnt really prove much... i mean you can get phobias of buttons for gods sake- surely the same psychological principles could be applied to the church? i mean i read a case study of someone who was turned schizophrenic by catholicism (obviously unconsciously).. so yeah

lol- sorry to ramble on.. but yeah- i think it's all the power of the mind- if you believe something enough and all that

not that i dont believe in demons and spirits and angels and all the rest... just that i dont really think they could posess the human body through any other method than astral projection- i.e. out of body experiences... i mean if your soul is out of the body.. that leaves it vacant right?

I read the link to the article about the Robbie guy, and i've always had the same thoughts on the matter as the parapsychologist- that it is the unconscious mind that causes such incidents.

looking at the criteria of the catholic church:

1)Talking in ancient languages and knowing certain facts that the victim has no previous knowledge of.

not so much ancient languages, but languages in general can be affected by the unconscious mind- example when from college we went to a hypnosis show the hypnotist picked volunteers, one of which was someone in my psychology class- and he left her under in the interval and told her she must speak in Japanese the whole time- which she did (not that im fluent in Japanese but i know enough about it to know it wasn't faked)- and i know for a fact she doesnt know a word of Japanese because she was always so "wow" about the fact i was learning it.

as for knowing random facts about something you've never come into contact with- i dont know about anyone here, but i get that all the time? it's nothing more than a deja vu type experience?

2) Displaying supernatural abilities and strength.

well... it depends what you class as supernatural abilities really, but i believe in psychic abilities... i mean we only use a bit of the brain- who knows what the rest can do... plus we all find we can do certain things beyond what we'd think possible of ourselves when we are in extreme situations right?

3) Blasphemous speaking.

god, people do that all the time... it's the equivalent of shouting 'witch' at all women with black cats

4) Aversion or harm from holy or sacred objects (rosaries, crosses, crucifixes, etc.)

that doesnt really prove much... i mean you can get phobias of buttons for gods sake- surely the same psychological principles could be applied to the church? i mean i read a case study of someone who was turned schizophrenic by catholicism (obviously unconsciously).. so yeah

lol- sorry to ramble on.. but yeah- i think it's all the power of the mind- if you believe something enough and all that

not that i dont believe in demons and spirits and angels and all the rest... just that i dont really think they could posess the human body through any other method than astral projection- i.e. out of body experiences... i mean if your soul is out of the body.. that leaves it vacant right?

yea ... i agree that the brain is still a mystery to us ... but if it is really the brain, why would it do something to harm oneself ? like in the article - scratch marks ... bleh bleh ... and yes the history of demonic possession has been around for so long ... can we really deny this history and say its the brain that is doing it ? but then again ... people always associate amazing things they cant explain with god and the devil ... so i am contradicting myself -_- ... i still cant make a reliable statement now .. i have to experience it first .. but people say when u dont know it u want it ... when u know it u wanna shun away from it ...

if it is really the brain, why would it do something to harm oneself ? like in the article - scratch marks ... bleh bleh ...

ever heard of self harm? and that's conscious.. why are unconscious scratch marks so hard to believe?

^^Well, that was a little off topic...:huh:

Not really. The movie was about a girl who was supposedly possessed. She underwent an exorcism, but the point is that she wanted her story to be told, so that people would believe in demons and such.

I see what your saying, but wouldn't said mental powers be triggered by immense mental stress? I don't know but I thought thats how it worked. If that is true and only strong mental stress or emotions would cause psionic like manisfestations. Many so-called demonic possesions (even in ancient stories) chose only the purest heart, individuals with seemingly loving families.

As for the the criteria for exorcism, I would also like to state that the Catholic Church does not just slap on these requirements and does a sprinkling of holy water and what not. Mental tests and physical check ups are required and many tests (too many to name) are conducted. Even then the demon might not be "potent" enough for exorcism and the family might be asked to simply pray or fast.

The signs are not subtle either. When I said aversion or harm from holy objects, I meant those crosses burn, scar and really hurt the victim. Plus I don't think a phobia would be spontaneous, like a once devout Christian suddenly becoming deathly afraid of crosses.

As for speaking in tongues and blasphemy, I'm gonna agree that the mind can do some crazy things and people do say some blasphemous stuff sometimes...

The paranormal activity though, is what I think is the deciding factor in exorcisms. Floating, spontaneous fires, harmful effects and such. That's hard to reproduce even for the mind. I can understand periodically moving objects or other minor manifestations, but the paranormal activity that exorcism requires has to majorly harm the victims of the possession.

*pokes Noir(what, you dared me! o_o)* I'm not so sure if I believe in possession or anything. I mean, I watch DVD's about it all the time, and honestly, they're so cheesy they make me laugh...
I agree with the comment above though. I mean, it could be kinda like that.

This reminds me of story of Bloody Mary or whatever. No one's proved she exists, yet no one's proved otherwise... (mostly because people are too scared to try it or something..)

Isnt Bloody Mary a queen who was killed? I remember reading that on wiki or somthing... :think:

*mental suggestion*

Not really. The movie was about a girl who was supposedly possessed. She underwent an exorcism, but the point is that she wanted her story to be told, so that people would believe in demons and such.

The true story thing is just to catch the interest of anyone who happens to see the commercial I think. The "true story" the movie is based on is actually the Trial of the man who exorcised her. All the scenes of the actual exorcism we're just flashbacks according to the testimonies of the witnesses.

To Radical Dreamer: Bloody Mary was a Queen, but there's also an urban legend about her to, like Red Rum and Candy Man.
To COYOTE: No need to be afraid of what you know not. Should be afraid if you don't make a circle around a Ouija board and bless it. Also, you don't have to be catholic/Christian to study demons. (Actually, 'demon' is used loosely in the Bible to describe both the angels and fallen angels. It means 'Wise One' believe it or not.)
To everyone else: Demons/Devils are real. Angels are real. To get rid of a demon, you need an angel of equal or more power to cancel out the demon. Why does everyone think it can't be that simple?

Demons/Devils are real. Angels are real. To get rid of a demon, you need an angel of equal or more power to cancel out the demon. Why does everyone think it can't be that simple?

I'm not sure about the whole workings of exorcism, but do you really need an angel to kick out a demon? I thought faith, prayer, etc was all that is needed?
At the very most some holy scriptures and holy materials, like what the Asian exorcists use.

According to the Catholic church, every priest is capable of preforming an exorcisn, but whether they have permission to do so is a different story.

I don't know how they do it though, and in some cases, both psychiatrists and priests agree that people sometimes think that they are possessed.

Then agian, the world doesnt go around the Catholic church, or even the religion of Christianity. What happened when someone was possesed before Christ was born? Before Christianity was mainstreem?

Possessed people are just crazy. It works like a placebo really. I say so, you say so thus I think its true.

What happened when someone was possesed before Christ was born?

Long before Christianity, many shamanistic communities had certain exorcism practices and beliefs. In fact, warding off evil spirits is quite common in many cultures, even today. Many, seemingly normal quirks actually developed from certain pratices of demonic warding. Halloween pumpkins, lucky rabbits foot, saying "God bless you" when somebody sneezes, and many other superstitions are carried out even today, without people realizing about the whole "minor exorcisms" they perform.

My teacher said people say "God Bless" because durring the black plauge it was thought the last stage of it was sneezing so people said that before you died...?

Yeah that's right. It is also said that when you sneeze, your soul wants out of your body, and by saying "God Bless you" the soul should stay inside, lol.

To get rid of a demon, you must have an angel summoned to kick it out. That is what the prayer and junk is all for.

Then agian, the world doesnt go around the Catholic church, or even the religion of Christianity. What happened when someone was possesed before Christ was born? Before Christianity was mainstreem?

Possessed people are just crazy. It works like a placebo really. I say so, you say so thus I think its true.

I dont know about pre-christianity exorcisms, but i heard that in medieval times, an "exorcism" was very similar to what's now commonly known as a lobotomy (brain surgery)

How similar exactly? I can't imagine brain surgery being preformed in medieval times. What would they do, cut part of it off?

Youve never heard of pre-1800 surgery before? I mean, theres records of the Aztecs and such doing c-sections...

They would take a chunk of the brain out mroe or less really. Nothing that spatacular that would wow the science world.

Yeah that's right. It is also said that when you sneeze, your soul wants out of your body, and by saying "God Bless you" the soul should stay inside, lol.


They also say that your heart stops for a few seconds when you sneeze. My mom's boyfriend is a doctor (veteranarian, specifically) and he says it could be true but he's never checked somebody's pulse during a sneeze.

How similar exactly? I can't imagine brain surgery being preformed in medieval times. What would they do, cut part of it off?


A primitive screw driver, or a hammer and chisel.

In medival times, they believed by drilling holes in your brain, the evil spirits would leak out.

A primitive screw driver, or a hammer and chisel.

In medival times, they believed by drilling holes in your brain, the evil spirits would leak out.

That was on the Discovery Channel. It was about the human evolution. They mentioned a lotta things about how they performed the surgeries. When I watched it, I was like :eek: because it looked sooo painful! Sometimes the holes in their skulls were big enough to fit an average sized human fist. When the surgery was done, they would place dirt, leaves, and a cloth over the open wound and it was the bacteria from those materials that killed a lot of people (also unsterilized tools including a dirty enviroment).

isn't the Emily Rose story based off the Robbie Doe one? After reading it( from Noir7 link) it says that that there was a another story like it that had a young girl instead.