My first completed compostion. Please comment on it.

Tad bit random.

The dissonant chords in the Guitar didn't seem to good, and it didn't catch my attention-at all.

The ending needs some of the most attention.

Alrite Thanx,

...added on to the ending a little bit.

Not bad. I like it. Although, the melody is a little bland at the moment, It really could use more notes. =D I think you should let the guitar ring instead of having the rest. Keep it up!

Wow, that was random. Here are some suggestions:

# If that 'voice' patch was meant to be sung, you really need a better melodic pattern.
# Bad, baaaaad use of the guitar. You need to learn how to use this beautiful instrument!
# The piano part seemed weird in rhythm in conjunction to the rest of the piece. I'd say you need to listen to some songs which use these instruments and pay attention to them. How they used *together* is what you're looking for.

@Noir7- What do you recomend that I listen to

Well for now, I'd recommend any song with those instruments so you can pick up how they are used in a song.

How would I look for those types of songs?

The guitar was rather bland. I agree with Noir. Keep working on it. ;)

alrite thanx

Search for Billy Joel songs (Very nice piano) and greenday for guitar ^_^

Alrite Thanx I'm working on the guitar part as of now

Tad bit random.

The dissonant chords in the Guitar didn't seem to good, and it didn't catch my attention-at all.

The ending needs some of the most attention.

Same comment as before.

Took a break on the first song and came up with this one. Hopefully you won't think its random. :heh:

Um... yeah. It is still random :heh: It doesn't seem to go anywhere in the beginning and there are some very bad disonnance between the sustained notes and the melody, especially in the flutes. And speaking of flutes, I'm not sure, but I don't think the flute goes that low; and the flute usually is higher than the clarinet - it's more natural sounding, imo.

Keep trying though ;)

yeah flutes can go that low they can go to like middle C, so it says in this book I read. Plus there is such a thing as a bass flute which I think plays an octove lower than a regular one.

http://www.contrabass.com/pages/flutes.html

^ To reword what he said: the orchestration was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off. Sorry, it just didn't work, you made the doublings all everywhere and all messy. :\ Since you're a beginning composer, you shouldn't be doing any ensembles larger than 3 or 4 instruments. Yes, it is still random, so start off with easier stuff like solo piano pieces or duets, think about band and orchestral stuff when you have experience with them. Good luck.

Edit: Yes, there's bass flute and all that, but they're rare instruments, but it's just the orchestration that's bugging me or perhaps Sepharite here. ;)

Ok thanx.

Which parts were the most random?

It's the overall of the piece, I see that you were trying to do stuff according to chords, but you didn't have a structure, or melody, that's why it's random.

Structure as in...

The first four measures of flute were what I had established as the melody. I kept the rythmm the same but, changed the tones to try to lead into the different chords.

Structures as in use of repetition, motives, form, (in your case) consistency of tone colouring, and consistency of rhythm. But what you're lacking here is a good melody, it sounds too... Uninteresting... :\ So that's why when you start composing, you should keep it small.

What do you mean by "tone coloring"?

Although I shouldn't tell you all these confusing stuff when you just started composing... But I will, since you asked. Well, tone colouring is how you colour a chord, melody and everything else with orchestration, timbres and etc... So basically: orchestration.

you mean what makes the chord interesting and not just a regular triad? How to use the different voices of the instruments to complement the melody?

;) You don't need to learn all that for now, just continue to compose, and learn the basics of music theory, cos it gets complex.

basics as in...

How to write a decent piece.

Ouch, but could you give specifics. How far should I go out to chord progressions or stick with scales?

Try everything, but always start small, that's my advice for you. ;)

ok thanx

New Intro I started. Pleas tell me what you think.

Still random... In both the chords and melody... But at least you ended it properly so far. ._.

Thanx (I guess...)

The left hand and the right hand were sort of off. And that part in the middle with the sixteenth notes reminded me of that Nocturne by Chopin... hehe.

Anyways, first.... work on how the left and right hands blend together and as um almost everyone has said, work on a better melody. Don't force yourself to come up with a good melody, do it when you feel inspired.

The left hand and the right hand were sort of off. And that part in the middle with the sixteenth notes reminded me of that Nocturne by Chopin... hehe.

Anyways, first.... work on how the left and right hands blend together and as um almost everyone has said, work on a better melody. Don't force yourself to come up with a good melody, do it when you feel inspired.


I don't think I've heard Chopin's Nocturne, and I didn't really have a melody, seeing how I thought this could be more of an intro than a song.

He's mentioning many, many Nocturenes.

There isn't "That nocturene by Chopin" He has written a bunch of Noctures.

Anyway, keep working on this, there is not ANYTHING to it really.

I dropped the intro I was working on and started this one...

Still random. :mellow:

What made it random? So that I can fix what I am doing.

Well, you can't really 'fix' a piece. The only things you can fix is its conventions (chords, ornaments, and so on), but you lack melody, harmony and form here...

I didn't mean fix the piece, I ment for future reference.

Started something new...

Started this melody...

It's better than your older compositions, but it's still very random. :mellow:

The Piano part feels like you're putting one chord here and there (what I call "stacked chords" :heh: ).

A few tips in melody making.

1. Stepwise motion is a very good place to start.
2. Jumps should be in 3rds, 4th, or 5th for starting composers because they are very easy to manipulate when creating harmony.
3. Harmony should be done based on the traid of the meloy note according to its scale. Eg: for C-Mj, if melody note= E, use use either, ACE, CEG or EGB, based on your judgement. Note how I did not say A-C#-E.
4. Do not add any extra sharps/flats unless it is the leading note in a dominant triad for a minor scale melody. (If you don't know what that means, please research this one yourself because it would be too long to explain the entire theory...I'm lazy:P )
5. Avoid the "Devil's Chord" (Augmented 4th). If not used properly, this will destroy a melody.
6. Do not diversify the note values too much. No 16th notes suddenly going into a half note unless you plan to end the phrase right there. This is very important!!! Though it may not be the case 100% of the time, this is what's wrong with most melodies that people say "It's Random" to.

Lastly, remember that these are but mere guidelines for begginers that "I" thought of from the top of my head. It does not, by any means, mean that you have to follow it to the bitter end.

Good Luck!

The Piano part feels like you're putting one chord here and there (what I call "stacked chords" :heh: ).

I was trying to base the chords on certain parts of the melody.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Started another new thing...

Even though you have the chords right, your melody lacks the property of being a melody. ._. You see, it's not memorable, neither does it sound interesting for the ears.

Ok Thanks...

something else...

I'm not quite sure, but isn't that a little too high for the euphonium? A french horn might work better, since a french horn can go to C in the bass clef (the tone quality might not be as good, though...) Correct me if I'm wrong :P

The block chords lack luster, try to arpeggiate some. Instead of doubling the piano with the euphonium, give the piano some embellishing parts that a woodwind would normally get to give the piece more flavor, because it's pretty bland right now...

I'm not quite sure, but isn't that a little too high for the euphonium? A french horn might work better, since a french horn can go to C in the bass clef (the tone quality might not be as good, though...) Correct me if I'm wrong :P

The block chords lack luster, try to arpeggiate some. Instead of doubling the piano with the euphonium, give the piano some embellishing parts that a woodwind would normally get to give the piece more flavor, because it's pretty bland right now...

I had originally wanted the euphonium to be a string, so that it could help sustain the piano part. But I don't like the violin sound in Finale notepad so... yeah :heh:

As for the block chords, I was just working with the chord progression, so I was going to enhance the bass part later...

Thanx

I think the melody should be better in this one...

Added on to the previous one...

Took a break on the first song and came up with this one. Hopefully you won't think its random. :heh:

LMAO!! I wan't that played at my funeral!

As for the last one you posted, it was not bad. You're definitely improving.

I suggest you repeat the opening motif. It'll help cure the randomness that does plague your compositions...

During the Eb Major portion I tried to augment the note values of the first section so that it was repeated, but not the same as the first section...

Thanks

Something new

Hmm... I see improvement. :) Perhaps you should keep your compositions to simpler things like piano solo, duets, or trios to learn more about constructing melodies and harmonies, but I definitely feel that you're starting to understand how to create melodies.

For most of the pieces I've been attempting to write, the piano tone/color wasn't really was what I was looking for.

Then try something like duets, trios or something like that. Start with something simple, cos it's gonna be confusing if you start with too many instruments.

This is what I have so far for this piece...

I see an improvement. Harmonies are better, but there are still bad chords here and there. Oh, and watch your phrasing, it dragged on and on and on, so that wasn't good. But you're definitely improving.

Thanks,

Can you tell me the measures in which bad chords appeared so that I know what to avoid next time. If you have the time that is. I believe measure 18 is one of the ones you are talking about.

Yes, 18 is one of them. Also, 23 wasn't a great chord at that moment either. The chords bar 15 to bar 15 was kind of weak too. Chord progression is an important part harmonizing melodies, phrasing and melody creation. So I think it's better if you look further into that topic.

I realize that I didn't have a set chord progression. I usually come up with the progression first and fit a melody to it, but that seemed to limiting to the melody. So this time I started with a melody and added chords to it to try to help build tension. Although I didn't have a chord progression, I did change the central note of my motif from C to Eb to Ab to F back to C. So I did kinda have a structure.

Structure isn't just about one portion in composition. It's the overall. Which means you need to have all the elements of a piece unified in order to claim it being 'structured'.

Which elements needed to be unified in this piece?

Melody, harmony, rhythms, form and perhaps cleaner orchestration if you can.

I started something new...

It's better, but the cellos seen too loud/intense for the bass part(s). (Add more instruments?)

What instruments would you recommend for the bass parts? It did seem to forcefull to me as well.

:think: Why not substitute Mandolin for Harp? For the bass part, add some "variety"... it's a bit too simple, half notes and quarter notes... if you change the bass part, add a mix of instruments, but I would suggest studying something a little more simple...

I the mandolin plucked sound for this piece, and as for the bass part, I was just trying to work with a chord progression for right now.

It's not too intense. :mellow: It's just too clustered. A rule: when harmonizing in the bass part, make the notes spread out as much as possible. The lower it goes, the more you need to spread out.

yeah I've read about that before. I didn't know if I should add more instruments to help spread the sound or just leave it like that.

For a beginner, the less instruments the better. I suggest you to start with just a piano.

Here's a short theme I came up with...

I'm trying to think of were to go from here.

Work on the bass... (It's simply chord here, chord there, etc...). On the bass, I would suggest making it faster. Make up a melody that you want to stick with. The Flute is acting like a descant part in that piece, when there's no specific melody (but it's good-- sometimes. In your case, not really.)

If you were to continue it, since you already made it end in "major", why not modulate to C minor?

The chords are just the main structure in the piece for now, I had planned to mess with that later. As for the melody, the first two measures of the flute part were kind of a motif thing I was working on. The measures after those two, I tried to variate it.

Added on to the previous piece...

The chord at Meas. 11 made it sound major.

yes, I had meant to do that part during the minor portion I the chords were Cm, Eb, D, and back to Cm.

Eh, seems really random to me.

In times like this duets are always the best in Jazz Music (in my personal opinion) and have great accomps. as well as melodic uses too.

Check out some ballads with a piano comp. or just some Jazz with a piano in it and a good melody--you'll start to pick up the more you listen and analyze to. :sweat:

Thanks I'll try to find some Jazz to listen to. All I have right now is a Thelonius Monk CD. What artist would you recomend for the ballads?

I don't know--usually when I mean "listen to some stuff" is like saying, "listen to as much music from different Jazz artists as you can."

Lol--I don't reccomend many artists unless you want some down to the bone stuff like the almighty (and odd) Jazz artist, Keith Jarrett.

Alright, Thanks

Took a break for awhile then came back with this...

Better, but I doubt you'll be able to hear the Tuba Player (if it were to be played). Plus the organ is sort of boring.

I'm going to take a break from posting trial compositions and actually try to write a full piece.

It sounds like the whole thing is just being rushed. Also, the chords are kind of too strong. They stick out too much instead of staying in the background. This would be fine if it was just the organ playing, but the tuba is the thing that needs to stick out here, you're just taking attention from it. And, yes, the organ is kind of boring. You should fix up the chords a little to make them less, random sounding.

I am back from my break and will soon be placing new "ideas" on this thread...

*Edit*
Piece that I was working on during summer break...

It should have more organization than previous pieces: ex.: A,B,C,A',B',C'A is the structure of the piece, use of motifs and themes, and chordal structures for the different sections...

Not done yet though...

I see improvements from your older pieces. However, your harmonies are still fairly weak. You should consider learning about different chord progressions and how to apply them into your own pieces. You should also try to study up on phrasing as I see that many of your melodic motifs end on upbeats, which is something unusual for beginning compositions. Another thing you should go learn more about is balance and coherence. In another words, does your phrases have a begining and an end? Are the melodies and countermelodies balanced, or is one heavier than the other one?

I see improvements from your older pieces. However, your harmonies are still fairly weak. You should consider learning about different chord progressions and how to apply them into your own pieces. You should also try to study up on phrasing as I see that many of your melodic motifs end on upbeats, which is something unusual for beginning compositions. Another thing you should go learn more about is balance and coherence. In another words, does your phrases have a begining and an end? Are the melodies and countermelodies balanced, or is one heavier than the other one?

I know some chord progressions, I just try not to go with something simple like I IV V. As for the upbeats, I had wanted the motifs to sound different without straying to far away like with some of my earlier pieces. I probobly should have a more definite space between my phrases so that it will sound more ...(can't think of a word:heh:). Thank you for the comment...

The only problem (after Dot's comment) is the lack of a melody, really. Unless what you had you think is fine, I couldn't really scope anything out recognizable.

. . .Like I said I agree completely with Dot.

Thank you, I'll work on melody construction.

Back from a long time away from forums...

You have some clear melody fragments, but your harmonies are too weak to support it. It's an improvement, however. Oh, and euphonium staff should be placed on top of the tuba staff.

You have some clear melody fragments, but your harmonies are too weak to support it. It's an improvement, however. Oh, and euphonium staff should be placed on top of the tuba staff.

Thank you, I usually am better on harmony then I was with this piece. Also I do realize that the tuba and euphonium need to be switched I was being lazy, and that was the 4th time I had done that for that piece and I just didn't want to fix it. :heh:

That was interesting. The 2nd trumpet part seemed, incredibly dull. And basically everything that Dot said. I did like this song, but...The ending killed it.

Yeah, the 2nd trumpet was mostly there just for extended chords.

I think this piece makes no sense whatsoever either melodically or rythmically.

What can I do to improve myself next time?

Yeah, what Noir7 said back then is very true, that piece does not make any sense whatsoever either melodically or rhythmically. It basically has no direction, no hard emotion to describe it, or no picture to paint. It just seems to be a bunch of notes put together that sounds consonant. I suggest you look deep into textures and counterpoint by listening to some orchestral (or in this case brass choir) works and see what the composer did to the harmony and counterpoint to make their melody interesting and the song give off a mood in general.

I've been out for a while, but I do have the base of what I want next. So hear it is...

Many ideas that I stop short of the length I want.

I think your your left hand on the piano is the part that suffers the most in your compositions. Even very simple arpeggios or ostinati would make it sound much better, add some interest, and wouldn't be that hard to compose. If you ABSOLUTELY want to use block chords change up the inversions once in a while. It will sound more fluid and be easier to play as well.

Which specific idea were you talking about?

Many of these I usually just layout block chords until I vary the melody more.

All of the ones that you used block chords, which I think is all of the ones that had a piano in them. I do that too when I start a new piece which I don't really know the direction yet, but instead of block chords I use other forms of accompaniment, mainly arpeggios. If you work on both the melody and the left hand at the same time, you may actually think of something melodically that you wouldn't have thought of if you had done them separately. Also I love putting the melody in the left hand. You could try that as well.

I enjoy that too. I never thought about how the bass could affect the melody. Although I realize it know that I've done that before. Thanks

Good luck, and keep composing!! :D

dmmelody: Avoid close spacing of chords in the lower bass; try moving a few notes up an octave to solve this. There's something that I didn't like about the placement of the suspended chord (meas. 24), but that's just my personal preference.
flutesaxmelody: Same with the bass on your other tune. The alto sax is very high in some parts...

dmmelody: Avoid close spacing of chords in the lower bass; try moving a few notes up an octave to solve this. There's something that I didn't like about the placement of the suspended chord (meas. 24), but that's just my personal preference.
flutesaxmelody: Same with the bass on your other tune. The alto sax is very high in some parts...

Is the close spacing making it too powerful?

Is the close spacing making it too powerful?

At times, it can be, but it creates a very smudgy effect.

Alright, I understand what you mean by that. Thanks.

I haven't been on here in a long time, so here are some new things I've been working on. My friend asked me to compose the music for his game he is designing, so these are pieces that I did for him.

He wants to use the Battle Theme for a specific battle, so that's why that and the Main Battle Theme are similar. (Trying to keep themes throughout the game :heh: )

For the Battle Theme (not Main), I recommend giving those Tuba chords to Trombones instead.

Forest Theme- When I think of a "forest," I think of that one theme that plays in the Relic Forest in Pokemon Colosseum. Search around in Google for it; give it a listen. I would probably like to see a contrasting theme inserted into this.

Main Battle Theme- Same suggestions as the Battle Theme; just take that bell glissando out. :\

Thank you.
-Can you tell me how changing the tubas to trombone would affect the theme?
-The Relic Forest music seems more suited for a theme about a body of wwater to me. But that's just me. And I had previously thought about adding a contrasting theme.
-I know the bell gliss is out of place but I thought that it would help with the repeat back to the beginning because it was sounding a little bit too sudden for me.

Thanks again.

Can you tell me how changing the tubas to trombone would affect the theme?.

Trombones (or maybe even euphoniums) are rather comfortable in that register and tubas are usually preferred in octave doubling (8vb lowest trombone, for example).

One thing I'll point out that Clarinetist was hinting at is your choice of closed chords and chords in the tuba. Tubas don't get chords. They should double the note of the bass note of the chord. Attached is what you propose the brass should sound like. Notice how it sounds all smush with all the closed chords in the tuba part? Well, If I were to take those chords, place them in a trombone part, and open them like in the attached score and double the bass note with a tuba I get a better sounding harmony. In the Trumpets, I also opened up the chords a little. A rule for opening chords in the trumpets I like to follow is the higher the trumpets are in their range, the closer the chords can be. All this can be seen in my attachments.

Porsche's revision is really nice in terms of opening up the lower brass, though I think I'd prefer the original closed position chords for the trumpets overall. Also, you might want to change the second chord harmony for the second grouping (ie, in ms. 3 - 4, the neighboring chord at the end of the measures). Generally, it's one tries to using root position diminished triads, at least interchangably with normal triads.

Attached is some alternative chords you might try using, though of course you don't need to (and probably shouldn't) change it for every iteration. I'm just putting it out there for the sake of variety.

I'm not usually speaking for complicating orchestration, but I think a skillfully drafted orchestration might do this piece good. I mean, the rhythm is edgy and the chords aren't very imaginative, but for a battle theme I think it could fly.

Thank you all for the input. I'll work on orchestration more for my next pieces.

The latest thing I've worked on. For this, I tried to use a broader range of instruments.

The second one is to show what I was working from.

1) Use a clarinet in Bb instead; the Eb one is meant for very high notes, e.g. those of a piccolo.
2) Tuba and euphonium are very close to the trombone note; as I noted before, it would be best to use them as octave doublers.
3) Using 3rds and other close intervals in the bass instruments (baritone + tenor sax / euphonium + tuba / trombone) is generally not a good idea, especially in band settings. (The baritone sax should usually be doubled with the tuba.)
4) In meas. 9, and forward, I suggest getting rid of the long tones so that the trumpets' articulation can be matched.
5) Meas. 25; use a clarinet instead of baritone sax.

1) Use a clarinet in Bb instead; the Eb one is meant for very high notes, e.g. those of a piccolo.
2) Tuba and euphonium are very close to the trombone note; as I noted before, it would be best to use them as octave doublers.
3) Using 3rds and other close intervals in the bass instruments (baritone + tenor sax / euphonium + tuba / trombone) is generally not a good idea, especially in band settings. (The baritone sax should usually be doubled with the tuba.)
4) In meas. 9, and forward, I suggest getting rid of the long tones so that the trumpets' articulation can be matched.
5) Meas. 25; use a clarinet instead of baritone sax.

1. Thanks for that info on the clarinet. I'll keep that in mind next time.

2. and 3. Maybe it's the fact that I'm a low brass player, but I like the sound that comes from them playing chords close together. Some of my favorite sections in pieces I've played are like that. Thanks, though.

4. The trumpets were added after everything else in that section because I heard them everytime I listened the piece. I'm using them mostly to keep the momentum during those sustained notes.

5. I can see how the clarinet fits the tone better. Thanks

Thanks, hopefully these don't seem like excuses. :sweat: