pls. its very very urgent

Hi, just making this thread to let you listen to my ideas and hopefully give feedback.

Especially now, as I have an assignemnt due on Thursday.

If anyone could comment on this piece please? I just winged it in a session I had to work on my composition. My main ideas revolve around the first regular quaver patterns in the beginning (not including the mistake) and the high descant of D-D-C-D.

voc004.wav - 0.51MB (http://www.zshare.net/audio/voc004-wav-nk8.html)

The (working) title of this piece is Sin. (well something around that idea anyway)

also here is another alternat thing i came uyo for the lead up to the descant

voc005.wav - 0.14MB (http://www.zshare.net/audio/voc005-wav-hju.html)

I really believe that if you keep one specific emotion in mind, and focus on that emotion, your music will be delivered more beautifly.

For both songs, maybe I'm too conventional, but I can't pick up the melody. If you have one melodic line and evolve around it, I'm sure the song will become more organize.

I wish you best of luck then, and will be your support

thank you very much for the comment.

as i said i just made it up on the spot keeping the first and last section in mind, seeing if those ideas could work together in a piece. :heh:

I was kinda aiming for:

normal-> darker -> getting taken over -> distress-> hopelesness and loneliness in the end

but anyway, thank you very much!!:lol:

lol, usually, from experience (which I'm lack of at the moment), when you divide music into sections, each section must be distinguishable, so as not to appear too random (like my previous composition). One good way is to have specific melody for each section. (Something simple that people who listented to your song can still sing the tune later on). Also, to appear darker, remember "Silence can be chilling" so you might want to make use of rest and high chilling notes. The lesser the notes the more tension is created.

lol, hope my suggestion is helpful to you. Bless you best of luck!

lol, sorry for double posting, but forgot to add the sample song with the last post. I hope it could give you some inspiration.

remember, simple melody for each part, using rest (silence) and high chilly notes.

Another song, I was posting today should give you some inspiration:
http://forums.ichigos.com/showthread.php?t=9006
A "Necromancer Theme" I composed for IB music project.

oh ok, thanks for the nice tips :)

but my piece is actually now called "Scarlet Sin", which tells a story about a girl named Scarlet, whos falling and being deceived into Sin.

ive worked on my the first few bars...but i dont know how to go from there..

(by there i mean from sad to a darker transition)

If you want a really dark feel then you should try using a bit of dissonance.

Wow, so much better from the earlier ones. Very nice string melodic progression!

There are some chords at the beginning that sounds funny, so I tried changing them abit. I hope you don't mind and hope you like it. As to progress darker, I would suggest you try to create more tension, (I haven't want Scarlet sin myself so I'm not certain about the mood) but since you introduce a bass (which is a good tension creator). Try listen to this track:http://www.radioblogclub.com/open/39412/_katsubou/02%20-%20Katsubou
And see what element you can adopt from it.

Try your best!

Flute... off range. It cannot hit the low A ;) .

lol, I still can't find flute in shenzu's composition though.

I think you have some interesting ideas with that 'Scarlet Sin' piece. But, your rhythmical placements of the notes are strange. I think that's the major problem here. But since you gave us such a short demo, I can't really say anything more.

Flute... off range. It cannot hit the low A ;) .

oh i see...could you mind telling me what is the range of a flute, cello and a violin? :heh:

@ Shirakawa: btw i cant seem to listen to the edited version you made since it says incompatible. Maybe the fact that i used the free limited Finale 2006 version doesnt help...:P

Flute- "Middle C" to the second C above the staff (some can hit the B under the middle C, but it varies).

Cello- First C below the staff (if you don't know how to read bass clef~ teach yourself) to first A above the staff in TREBLE clef.

Violin- First G below the staff to 2nd A above the staff.

And, you should also download the free Finale Notepad 2007.

Flute- "Middle C" to the second C above the staff (some can hit the B under the middle C, but it varies).

Cello- First C below the staff (if you don't know how to read bass clef~ teach yourself) to first A above the staff in TREBLE clef.

Violin- First G below the staff to 2nd A above the staff.

And, you should also download the free Finale Notepad 2007.

Actually, cello can reach to the C above the treble staff, and violin doesn't really have a top limit.

I think first part (apart from some detail) is fine now, how can she continue getting darker?

ah ok thank you everyone!

and thanks for the fix, Shirakawa, sounds mad! :D

very grateful for you help, will let you know in the progress :lol:


updated intro:

Actually, cello can reach to the C above the treble staff, and violin doesn't really have a top limit.

It's just something to base off of :\ . The highest note depends on the skill of the player.

~I'll comment later.

lol, it changed, I still think the original one is better (perhaps being too conventional). It is common technique, to use minor scale or dessonance to convey a dark mood, so far your music is organized, which is great, but to get darker, some chord clashing can be charming sometime. And although silence is scary, it is when you keep the pulse going. Starcato is adviced for the string part.

You did well so far, and with good advice from other musicians (espeically the IB's lol) I am positive that you will produce a quality composition.
Good luck!

well the first 7 bars is waht im also gonna use for the ending (sort of like a theme)

but yeah the composition assignment has a max of 4:00, is this intro too long?

plus what chord (I, V, VI, etc.) can change this sound to a more "hopeless" sound?

EDIT: From the last .MUS-

Would it be better if i take out:

- bars 12-15?
- bars 8-11?
- bars 8-15?
- bars 1-7?
- bars 1-15?

just surverying which would people find the best..

The new version is thin (have little instrument), I think using some more chords to give some depth would be nice idea (it help raise the quality of the music) I think Lycoris has that warmth in it, you might want to listen to it and get some inspiration.
Here's the link to Lycoris:
http://forums.ichigos.com/showthread.php?t=8831

"We are young musicians sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more, and things that are more distant, than they did, not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up, and by their great stature add to ours" - Issac Newton

Here's the link to Lycoris:
http://forums.ichigos.com/showthread.php?t=8831


Wow @_@ that's so good, thats almost what id been looking for after the intro- especially when there where those fast and mystifying those 32nd notes...

expect i dont think copying it is very wise...

-never mind-

lol, you don't have to copy, but how the chord and rhythm progress is a cliche, so you might want to use this cliche for your composition.

(My brother would be so happy to hear that you like his song):lol:

wow, your brother? that's neat :D it is great, can't stop listening..

btw, do you know how he did the effect on 0:18-0:36?

and also, is this what you meant about more depth?

lol, here is my brother's reply:
"its basic arpeggio playing faster than normal, (the technique is to add some emotion while you play) which is something you can't really notate in Fanale or other programs, Programs are emotionless"
- masstrade6

I kind of agree that you can only get the right emotion by actually sit and play on piano. The program really limit the emotional effect sometimes.

By the way, Lycoris (greek) means twilight, he is a very lonely person I guess, so it inspired him in someway.

I also recommend you actaully sit in front of the piano and compose, sometimes a random pressing can really inspire you.

Best of luck!

(just for correction, masstrade6 is my cousin, not brother, but I just got a habit of calling him brother)

And your composition changed again, but I love this latest vertion. Only about bar 19 that its start sounding awkward without piano. But the rest is awsome. I really think you have the talent as composer, the level is so much different from the first one you posted.

lol, here is my brother's reply:
"its basic arpeggio playing faster than normal, (the technique is to add some emotion while you play) which is something you can't really notate in Fanale or other programs, Programs are emotionless"
- masstrade6

I kind of agree that you can only get the right emotion by actually sit and play on piano. The program really limit the emotional effect sometimes.

By the way, Lycoris (greek) means twilight, he is a very lonely person I guess, so it inspired him in someway.

I also recommend you actaully sit in front of the piano and compose, sometimes a random pressing can really inspire you.

Best of luck!


ah okay..but yeah the assingment needs me to hand in something for the markers to listen to, and i cant play any of the instruments here (well only piano, but basically), so im stuck with my limited emotionless free finale version :D

and ye i do very agree with messing around with piano myself, that's how i got a lot of my ideas (the 1st files in the first post were me just making it up as i go hehe).

btw, how do you write it in the sheet music to play what your cousin did?

anyway, ive improved the intro a bit...still contemplating whether to still use that 1st 7 bars in the intro or just leave it in the end...

(and yeah still need to finish the bit round where you said it became awkward, jz thinking some ideas on what to put- altough bars 19-22 myt just be some simple rolled chords)

EDIT: actually i have a mistake in the cello part, it only reaches down the C not B...needa fix that..except i dont know what note to replace it..it sounded so good though :()

its a series of non stop semi quavers (1/16 note) [if my IB further math skill is still good]. So plot series of semi quavers to fill up the bar, then adjust each note to accending formation where the notes are heading upward. Each notes on the beat should belong to the chord, the rest are decorating notes which you can arranged as you like. I hope I am making sense, but I am composing latin lyric for my house chant at the moment, so my sentence structure is unstable.

umm does anyone know the range of the contrabass/double bass? how low can it go?

ok, if anyone could comment on this, i think i have a new idea for the next section..

and please tell me if i got any of the ranges wrong..:heh:

(the new transition and section aint perfect, but thats the main idea)

Bar 17 to 19 captured my emotion so much! It really gave a creep dark feeling. But From bar 20 onward, its sounds funny about how you raise the note up, making the song sounds happier in all of the sudden, can you hold the dark feeling you create from bar 17 to 19 longer?

Then throughtout the music, you might choose to evolve around that scary section by adding more dark instrument of your choice.

Overall, this latest version is most powerful of all. The more you edit, the better it seems to get. Keep editing!

thanks..

i wanted that 'happy bit' sound high pitched- guess flute was too happy heh...

yeah, i take people's responses and use them accordingly, that's how i make things :D

and i want this to be perfect, im submitting this to the HSC (High School Certificate) as one of my electives for my Music 1 course- goota impress them :) (hopefully)

so what would be a better chord to that transition after you mentioned?

ok, ive tried to make it darker-

lol, you have changed it again, and its always getting better!

If you ask an IB SL (International Baccalaureate Standard level) music student, I think the violin towards bar 23, I feel like its too force full. This is because the previous bars focus mainly on natural flow of the note (usually use long note), so by indroducing a rhythmic melody in subito, it stands out too much, and the melody of violin happen to be pentatonic note, so it appear to sound like chinese music (maybe you are influenced by chinese new year).

Since we are both music students, maybe you might want to comment on my composition sometimes.:)

lol, guess what i changed it again! :sweat:

oh well that was just someting i pulled out randomly, (although it sounded good to me- might keep that for another piece maybe then)- pentatonic? ok, thats too hard for me, i dont know what that is..

and maybe i am a little chinese influenced :P

but yeah, in this new one, the new melody is something i used with the 1st 7 bars i used in an earlier class composition task, and it worked well- sounds evil though :D (the last melody i did- the one with those really short note values)

(the section after that forceful part that you said i just made up- a temporary thing because the new melody doesn't fit without it yet, midnight is too late to think up of melodies- i know theres to man melodies, ill organize tomorow)

EDIT: and i'll comment on your compositions after my flood of assignments lol :heh: i got this one and a big Information Processes and Technology test this week..:\

lol, it didn't change this time! only addition at the end. I really like your introduction right now (but if you want to improve it further, I would love to see it)

Here is some ideas for you to continue. If the note accend (heading upward) then it usually sounds happier, while if the notes decend (heading downward) it usually give a sad emotion.

So to get darker, you might want to descend your notes, or make it so the the note is heading down.

(lol, busy weak ahead of you, I will make sure to help you as much as possible to produce a quality composition)

haha thanks for the support :D

ill keep that in mind, would the new addition be ok? i just need to put some layers on it though, but is the idea ok?

of course, but its always a good idea to get inspiration from other songs and analyse the technique they used so you can use it in your composition. My brother recommend Lilium for your song:
http://www.radioblogclub.com/open/133958/lilium/01%20-%20Elfen%20Lied-Lilium%20%28openning%20theme%29
(lol, although I think there are darker songs, I think you'll be able to get some elements from lilium)

Good luck!

Don't put too many jumps in your melody, and thin out the harmony in the bass piano a bit, because the chords in the piano just sound bangy. Maybe try to make the piano a bit more interesting by itself despite the fact that it is just accompanying.

edit: I meant the bass clef of the piano in case you didn't understand...

ah okay, but could you specify which bits, cause maybe its just the composers point of view is different from a listeners (having different contexts and all)...

anyway i tried to make some interesting piano bits...

This is how I would change the beginning.

ohh...those chords...

i see now...

wow, what you did was great :O


thanks a lot :lol:

btw this piece is about a story named Scarlet, as she is lured, fooled and tempted into the perils of sin....thus the title "Scarlet Sin"

my original idea was to start calm then dark, but your version is also good, and im just contemplating to start that dark like your version or not (which is really good btw)

EDIT: if its alright with you, then i am going to use it then

well here is the newest version :unsure:

Try not to have so many places where the piano is directly playing the parts of the other instruments. Also, try to maybe thicken up the harmony in the first section to make it less tedious.

ok, my first draft of my final version...after losing some of data unexpectedly lol :heh:

deathraider: that section is meant to be like that, as its supposed to trick the audience that it (or Scarlet) is innocent at first- then comes the creeping sins//

Then what I would do is leave the first four measures like you have them, and then have notes creep in in the last two measures that thicken up the chords.

Edit: It looks like you lost the changes you based off of my changes in the newest posted version.

Also, I still think that sometimes you need to make your melody and counterpoint follow the shape of your harmony better. That's part of what I changed in the beginning when I changed things. I also stick by what I said about the piano playing directly the same thing as what another instrument is playing at the same time.

When you go back into the section like the beginning, you need a much better transition. Also, you NEED to thicken up the harmony a lot there because he's up to his chin in sin, but the way you did it makes it seem like he just started sinning. Also, try not to only use a third above the top note to harmonize.

your song reminds me of a song from shingetsutan tsukhime :)
(-> i like it ^^)

@ deathraider: oh eyah i did, putting it back now. and yeah the transition in the end i was thinking of a sudden transition to end the piece, i think ill add a bit of contrabass harmony then...

its more of like from nightmarish scene- eyes suddenly wake up wide open and she realises the terrible things she've done

plus the same note parts i was thinking more of like a marching feel

cause my original ideas was to end it as a monophonic piano bit- to symbolise Scarlet.

@Arashi_no_Toriko: really? what?

EDIT: ok now this is actually the real first draft- which my teacher said it was excellent :lol:

EDIT: second draft now- not much changed really

Let me be very picky about the notation and articulation:

1.) Put your arppegio lines on the LEFT side of your chords, not top, or right.

2.) Somewhere in the beginning, you have your contrabass playing staccato and a slur, which is rather awkward unless the second note is staccato as well.

3.) Lord, please use 'f' instead of '>' if you want something to sound loud.

4.) Use SLURs instead of TIEs if you want connected notes.

5.) At bar 28, there's a bunch of weird rhythm, write 'secco' in that passage so people will know that you want precise articulations.

6.) Avoid using sixteenth or eighth rests. It gets on performers' nerves if it's in moderato or faster. The way to change this is by putting a staccato in the note before the rest but stretch the note value (so if you have an eighth note then an eighth rest, put a quarter note with a staccato instead).

oh i see thanks Sir_dotdotodot :lol:

the ones about ties instead of slurs and accents instead of forte are for recording purposes only. I dont know if its only because mines a limted free version, but those seemed to be the only ways that i got the piece to sound like what i wanted- since we had to provide a track for the markers to listen to- and the lsurs and forte/piano markings don't seem to work. :heh:

oh and waht does 'secco' translate in english? (im putting english markings instead of the italian ones in the sheet music)

lol, Its nearly hand in time isn't it? So I would only recommend following improvement:

1) It sounds great in the beginning until bar 24, where it sounds like a chinese song due to the use of pentatonic notes (Think of playing the black keys on the piano, they usually sounds like chinese don't they? that's pentatonic) until bar 30. So I really really really recommend that you cut the line between 24 and 30. I tried it already and it sounds good since it got the flow of the tention increasing, which is what you wanted, and we no longer get a weird chinese sound (trust me, between 24 and 30 doesn't go with the music at all).

you did a great job. I can't believe that you are the same person who posted the recording on the first threat. I am glad that you really take people's advice seriously and try hard to improve your composition. I wish you best of luck!

My brother recommend you to try using some deep churchlike bell when there is a pause to not make the music sounds empty and to bring up the scary flavor.