Hey guys, this may be a gloomy topic, but I think it's important to recognize this event and help understand why it happened. This is our country, we should be careful how we represent ourselves in it. Please stick any opinions you want in here. Just be respectful of others please, we may not all agree and the causes of this and who's fault it is.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html

This, I don't really want to believe.

Man, I live in NC which isn't too far from Virginia. Well yeah 33 people were killed including the shooter, leaving this the most deadly campus shooting in American history. I hope that this does not happen again, but we all know what this world is coming to, so its a matter of time until the next sadly speaking. I hate that this happened, but this is a time of recovery and support for the victims family's, friend's, and anybody that knew them.

Ok, now that's just scary. I'm not even finishing that play...
And, seriously, I am absolutely remorseful for all of the lives lost that day, but one thing I just cannot stand is the media on this topic. I mean, News isn't unbiased anymore (not since '98), it's entertainment. They want to get across a story so they can sell and get better ratings, and because of this, the thing they emphasize the most is "Aren't you upset that you were told about the shootings hours after it occurred?"
It just bugs me. I mean, the president of the college handled the situation very well, don't go putting more pressure on him than he already has.
And there's my rant.

Wow. I just heard about this just now. This is a very unfortunate event :( . Is it just me, or has there been a lot of school shootings lately? 33 People? That's a lot...

It happened on Monday morning. At like 7:15 give or take. And then at like 9:26 or so. I can't remember if it was one or two people he killed around 7:15, but whats weird he takes a two hour gap to do almost anything. They said he could of been in his dorm loading up ammo. But he did leave a letter saying how much he hatted rich people, jocks, and charlatans. I don't know what he did in that two hour time frame. Then at 9:26 or so he went across campus and shot a lot of other people. I can't imagine what the students at VT thought at those moments of their lives.

All people could say about him are bad things, he took away so many lives but there must have been a reason for it. Maybe he desperately needed help and all everyone did was make fun of the poor guy.
What sucked was that he endured so much of college and 2 weeks beofre graduating he goes and kills himself.
I feel really bad for the people he killed, my mom said something about four survivors who instead of running and screaming for their lives, played dead.
"If a scary guy with a gun ever comes along, roll over and pretend you're dead okay?"
"Got it mom."

Man, I live in NC which isn't too far from Virginia. Well yeah 33 people were killed including the shooter, leaving this the most deadly campus shooting in American history. I hope that this does not happen again, but we all know what this world is coming to, so its a matter of time until the next sadly speaking. I hate that this happened, but this is a time of recovery and support for the victims family's, friend's, and anybody that knew them.

Not only campus shooting but the most deadly mass shooting in American history.

I find this very distressing. What has this world come to? But sometimes things like this happens, and because were just humans we can do little. I think the world should try and learn something from this, because I finally agree with Bush on one thing: school is a sanctuary, a place of knowledge and learning and should be a safe place where you don't have to worry about being killed.

33 people dead [including the shooter] 29 wounded [lucky many were superficial wounds].

That play was so messed up. And really badly written too. But really messed up.

For once, I agree with RD, it is distressing indeed. Whenever these sorts of things happen (9/11, school shootings), because it's so far from home it seems sort of surreal. The mind wants to reject it. You think "Why? WHy did this happen?" And it's scary. Because it can happen anywhere, anytime.

Details about the shooter came out on the news today...he was like, already and angry kinda guy and the police already knew about him or something...(The first few news reports I heard said he was Chinese, turns out he's South Korean). Something made him flip out. And the writing of "Ismail Ax" on his arm? What's the deal with that?

He was on some medication too according to the newspaper article I read. Gun laws should definitely be much stricter. This isn't even the first time such school massacre happened. I pity those people, they were just there for their lectures and they don't even deserve to die. It is literally "School kills".

This event really upset me...
I mean, its bad enough that he went and killed 32 people, but what pissed me off the most is that noone fought back! I mean, the guy went to one class room, shot a bunch of people, and the classroom next door didn't do anything! And then he went to that same classroom next door, and shot a bunch of people there too! The shooter even stopped at one point to reload, and then he shot at them again! Personally, if someone was going down the front row shooting people, I think I would get up and throw a fucking chair at him or something. Though, what really got me pissed, was that when the shooter left one classroom, instead of people running after him to beat his ass down, they barricaded their door! Nobody tried to rush him at all! I don't understand how someone can go into a classroom of 50+ people, shoot the front row, and now have twenty or thirty people rushing at him.

Further information: The shooter had two guns, a 22. hand pistol, and a Glock (not sure what type of glock though) Standard pistols have magazines of 7 bullets. Further more, the shooter shot the majority of people he killed at least 3 times. So, do the math, he would of had to reload frequently...and what did the students do then? Hide. Now, I'm not sure what I would have done in that situation, but I would hope that I would have atleast done something offensive.

He was on some medication too according to the newspaper article I read. Gun laws should definitely be much stricter. This isn't even the first time such school massacre happened. I pity those people, they were just there for their lectures and they don't even deserve to die. It is literally "School kills".
Incidence like this are so unneccessary :(
The should be stricter laws. AFAIK the US is one of the only countries where it's actually allowed to carry weapons legally and you see what's the result... :/ Instead of "expressing his deep sorrow" Bush should go ahead and prohibit the possesion of fire arms (without license), but there's no way in heaven he'll do it. People have the "right" to defend themselves. It's really wicked logic. An outdated law from 200 years ago, when there actually was still a need to "protect yourself".


but what pissed me off the most is that noone fought back! I mean, the guy went to one class room, shot a bunch of people, and the classroom next door didn't do anything! And then he went to that same classroom next door, and shot a bunch of people there too! The shooter even stopped at one point to reload, and then he shot at them again! Personally, if someone was going down the front row shooting people, I think I would get up and throw a fucking chair at him or something.
I want to see you fighting back in this sitation. I'd be too damn busy panicing. Maybe I'd preserve a bit of logical reasoning and feign death (and hope he doesn't notice that I wasn't one of the persons he shot at...) but logic normally doesn't kick in in this kind of situations.

Hey guys, this may be a gloomy topic, but I think it's important to recognize this event and help understand why it happened. This is our country, we should be careful how we represent ourselves in it. Please stick any opinions you want in here. Just be respectful of others please, we may not all agree and the causes of this and who's fault it is.

Who's country? I'm sorry but in my country people can't buy weapons at every corner of the street to shoot 32 people at random.

This guy was seriously messed up. Ive read through one of his plays, by them selves they paint a dissturbing picture or a dissturbed home. People who heard about the shooting said that his name came to mind first when it happend. allways into blood and violence.

I dont think this could have been avoided as such. You meet people like this but you never think people will snap.

Dont jump on the Tompson train people, be more reasonablke and blames societys dissragrding of certain people, blame a decline in parenting. Not sure if the last one can apply here though

Well, the easiest thing is to say "OMG LOOK STOOPID AMERICANS ALWAYS SHOOTING EACHOTHER AT SCHOOL~!!~!", but, that doesn't fully apply here, even though it was pretty much the first thing that came to my mind when I heard it. I just thought "God, another shooting at an American school?"

Seriously, it's starting to become an anual event, and that's not a good thing. But in a country where you can buy weapons at every street corner, what do you expect? I think there should be a ban on weapons first, make it much harder for people to get weapons, and I think you've made a very big step towards a safer America.

But nooo, Americans have the right to defend themselves. Preferrably with shotguns and other heavy firearms. Damn rednecks, and then something like this happens and everyone's like OMG! Ban weapons first, then complain if something happens.

Other than that I must say that I feel sorry for the relatives and friends of those who were murdered. Nobody deserves anything like this. It just pisses me off how much of a hypocrites Americans are, and as long as weapons are sold everywhere legally, I'll say they're just asking for things like this to happen.

Personally, I think pistols should be banned. That would greatly reduce many shootings. For it is a hell of alot easier to see someone carrying a shotgun or a rifle than it is a pistol.

Maybe, but people who do stuff like this don't really care about being caught with a weapon, whenever they're seen they'll just start shooting anyway. A complete ban on weapons would probably be much more useful, although of course with a license it should still be possible, but people should be carefully screened and such. At least make it harder for people to acquire a weapon. Much harder x_x

I believe we can argue about everything under the sun that would have to do with these events, but it won't change anything. Tightening down gun laws won't prevent, banning "bad" video games won't prevent, nor will blaming bad parenting and trying to correct it will prevent.

"If there is a will, there is a way."

It does not matter what you do. The fact is that there will ALWAYS be an asshole to screw everything up. Someone will ALWAYS try to take advantage of everything, and that is the sad part. This incident could have happened anywhere. Maybe not exactly as it occurred here but in a very similar way. Is it not possible that, even under the most strict gun laws, that a gun could be smuggled in through the boarders or even be home-made?

My point is, that if someone has has a strong enough will to do harm, it will happen, no matter what you may try to do to prevent it.

Maybe, but people who do stuff like this don't really care about being caught with a weapon, whenever they're seen they'll just start shooting anyway. A complete ban on weapons would probably be much more useful, although of course with a license it should still be possible, but people should be carefully screened and such. At least make it harder for people to acquire a weapon. Much harder x_x

Well where I'm from in the states (wyoming), when my dad went to buy a rifle cuz elk season was comming up, they made him wait a whole hour so they could do a background check on him to make sure he didn't have any criminal records or nothing. Though each state has its own regulation concerning gun buying, and it shows so happens that Virginia is the second worst towards it (as in, its the second easiest state to buy a gun in, georgia is the first)

Well it's said that he had mental problems and was stalking women students.
So all the blame can't be put on the guns.
I'm sure there are other things that should have been avoided to cause this situation from occurring.

Well where I'm from in the states (wyoming), when my dad went to buy a rifle cuz elk season was comming up, they made him wait a whole hour so they could do a background check on him to make sure he didn't have any criminal records or nothing. Though each state has its own regulation concerning gun buying, and it shows so happens that Virginia is the second worst towards it (as in, its the second easiest state to buy a gun in, georgia is the first)

Well, then it should be that hard in every state. Better to have a bunch of people standing in line for an hour because of background checks than having 32 innocent people shot because they never bothered to check.

Well, then it should be that hard in every state. Better to have a bunch of people standing in line for an hour because of background checks than having 32 innocent people shot because they never bothered to check.

Apparently some schools in england already have checks everyday, i think it's metal detectors like at airports and some trainstations.

I have to agree with Angelic, the U.S. should have learned not to sell firearms after the Columbine shootings. It's a real pity, but more people die in the middle east and they don't make such a big deal out of it. People should just open their eyes and stop saying "Let's all just get along" and actually do something about these violent situations.

I'm deeply saddened about this, and even scared (going to College in August) but that's just how this world is, sadly -_- ...

I'm eager to see how the NRA is handling this.

He was on some medication too according to the newspaper article I read. Gun laws should definitely be much stricter. This isn't even the first time such school massacre happened. I pity those people, they were just there for their lectures and they don't even deserve to die. It is literally "School kills".

Yes, he was on anti-depressants.

I think American gun laws should be very strict, because obviously our minds aren't mature enough for them. I say scan everyone psychologically along with criminally and physically. Also, America does have a universal law stating that everyone buying a personal gun must go through a criminal background check, and even after that must hold a licenses for concealed weapons [it may not be a constitutional law but I do know all the states required it]. But having a criminal background check wouldn't have done anything in the VT case because the man had only a speeding ticket and that was it.

[a psychological would have done better]

A complete ban of weapons, I don't think thats good. Weapons are, in most cases, used for protection [I'm against weapons used for recreation though]. When someone with a knife or is just bigger then you breaks into your home while your family is sleeping, what are you going to do? A gun would be sufficient, even having one could scare the robber away without shooting at all. If gun's are banned, the robber still has the upper hand to you, and even then the robber could get a gun, he already broke a law so why not? I think law's need be thought over and fixed.

*Scanning through this thread*

It looks like this is more of a bash on America's Gun Laws (which yes, I do believe should be stricter).

~~

Anyway, I think the thread should stay on topic of this massacre. Prayers goes out to all the 32 (and pity twoards the 33rd, too) families of the shooting. I hope Virgina Tech can somehow give a memorial to those students who died that day.

Also, one of the professors was a Holocaust survivor. I believe that he knew his purpose was to one day hold off an attack for others' sake. Bless him.

I just watched part of the video that Cho Seung-Hui sent to NBC...what a very troubled person.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2007/04/18/sot.nbc.cho.speaks.nbc

That video is deeply disturbing...That guy needed help and fast.

I just watched part of the video that Cho Seung-Hui sent to NBC...what a very troubled person.

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2007/04/18/sot.nbc.cho.speaks.nbc

It looks like he's reading from something most of the time.
It's a really horrible thing that happened. Gun crimes hurt a lot of people, even if they don't live in the same state that it happened at. Just recently there was a shooting downtown from where I live. Four or five people got killed and about three were injured. One of the girls who got killed was very close to my friend. It's a scary thing.

Who's country? I'm sorry but in my country people can't buy weapons at every corner of the street to shoot 32 people at random.

I'm sure if you go to the right corner of any country you can buy almost anything.

The problem is that in America, 1 of every 3 corners is the corner that you can buy guns, meth and other illegal items. [joke]

I do think your applying to much stereotype on Americans also Angelic. Were not all rednecks with obsessions over deer hunting and shiny new shotguns. A majority of Americans live in cities and towns where the nearest deer is in a zoo. Also, there is a big uprise of very Republican-liberal people* after Bush's idiocy, so big I could almost call it a fad. Weapon laws need to be stricter, yes, but don't play the blame game. Its not about if he had a gun or not, because if it is then the VT story apply to many countries, such as Japan where a school girl and cut another girl with a razor, or in Darfur where men can rape and kill women and no one seems to care.

I think the real story is why it happened, why he had to get to the point where he had to kill someone, and a story like that can happen anywhere in the world, regardless of if someone can have a gun or not. If its not a gun its a knife. If its not a knife its a car. If its not a car its hands. If we start to ban knifes, cars and hands, where have we went? No where, because we haven't tried to stop the roots of school violence. And its also not a problem of legal weapons, because many countries have legal weapons. Its something deeper and darker, It had to do with Cho Seung-Hui not his gun.


America is trying very hard, but its not helping when the whole world is watching for every mistake we make. They point out our governments mistakes no matter how stupid or how big, and they point out our peoples mistakes also.


I guess what I'm saying is the gun is superficial in this ordeal. It does play a big part, but if you can fix the user instead of taking away the gun, then not only do you have a safe gun wielder that knows who, what, where and why but also more freedom. Teaching>restriction<supervision


*Republicans are the types that support abortion, hates the war and loves the hybrids. on a stereotype at least.

:\ My opinion is very contradicting.

I am devastated from the incident, I can't even imagine what I would have done being in the situation that they were in. Though no one fought back in the classroom, it took enough bravery to shut the door behind him after he walked out and to stay there while the shooter then tried to shoot the surviving students through the door. Anyway, my heart goes to them.

On the other hand, he did this for a distinct reason. He was declared mentally ill yes, but if his words are true, he was treated like crap by others (whoever they may be), and his only fault is the way he handled his anger (obviously). What's unfortunate is that students reported that he was recommended counseling.... and that didn't affect him at all.

Oh, and then what pisses me off the most is he mentioned his main reason being to get revenge from the the 'rich people'.


This should be a huge wake-up call to not only the policies concerning school security (although open schools are harder to keep secure) but also how we should take certain behavoral issues a little more seriously.


*EDIT
Oh, and people should really keep mentally disturbed people away from the public in the first place. I mean he freaking put fire to buildings and stalked two women previously. Does it really take more than that to act lawfully on these actions?

I'm sure if you go to the right corner of any country you can buy almost anything.

The problem is that in America, 1 of every 3 corners is the corner that you can buy guns, meth and other illegal items. [joke]

I do think your applying to much stereotype on Americans also Angelic. Were not all rednecks with obsessions over deer hunting and shiny new shotguns. A majority of Americans live in cities and towns where the nearest deer is in a zoo. Also, there is a big uprise of very Republican-liberal people* after Bush's idiocy, so big I could almost call it a fad. Weapon laws need to be stricter, yes, but don't play the blame game. Its not about if he had a gun or not, because if it is then the VT story apply to many countries, such as Japan where a school girl and cut another girl with a razor, or in Darfur where men can rape and kill women and no one seems to care.

I think the real story is why it happened, why he had to get to the point where he had to kill someone, and a story like that can happen anywhere in the world, regardless of if someone can have a gun or not. If its not a gun its a knife. If its not a knife its a car. If its not a car its hands. If we start to ban knifes, cars and hands, where have we went? No where, because we haven't tried to stop the roots of school violence. And its also not a problem of legal weapons, because many countries have legal weapons. Its something deeper and darker, It had to do with Cho Seung-Hui not his gun.


America is trying very hard, but its not helping when the whole world is watching for every mistake we make. They point out our governments mistakes no matter how stupid or how big, and they point out our peoples mistakes also.


I guess what I'm saying is the gun is superficial in this ordeal. It does play a big part, but if you can fix the user instead of taking away the gun, then not only do you have a safe gun wielder that knows who, what, where and why but also more freedom. Teaching>restriction<supervision


*Republicans are the types that support abortion, hates the war and loves the hybrids. on a stereotype at least.

It's not just about Americans, it's about a fucking idiot who buys guns in America - and has no trouble at all buying them. Of course, if I wanted to buy a gun in the Netherlands I'd be able to get one, but I'd have to look hard - really hard, and get the "right" connections and wotsnot to get them, because they are illegal and are only available on the black market. But I'm sure that this keeps a lot of people from actually acquiring a gun - in America there's no threshold to get a gun, just go to a gunshop and get yourself one.

If this guy had used, let's say, a razor instead of a gun, a lot less people would have been killed, maybe even none at all. He would have been easier to stop. So yes, I AM blaming American gun laws, but no, I'm not blaming Americans - nobody wanted this to happen. I'm just saying Americans shouldn't act all sad and then do nothing - they should DO something about it. NOW. Because it'll happen again soon enough if things keep up the way they are. And I'm getting tired of having to see it on the news all the time, because I don't fucking care enough to see it every day. There's more shit going on in the world but as soon as something happens in the US people act as if it's the worst thing in the world.

In the Netherlands an 8 year old was killed at his school half a year ago. Do Americans care about that? Nope. But we are expected to care about Americans shooting eachother's heads off. Because America's so important.

America thinks it's important itself and then has to shove it onto everyone else. American also doesn't help itself, I mean, they were so slow to act in reponse to the hurricane hit on New Orleans.

But I seriously think they should have stricter gun laws in America. I agree with Angelic, it''d be pretty difficult to get one here in Australia too. Mostly, we're worried about natural disasters atm...what with the droughts and stuff

Well that is a problem. America is a focus of the world, why I don't know. It is a problem how I don't know about that 8 year old boy but the whole world knows about the VT killing and slowing it is changing. But its slow. But now, I don't think we shove ourselves in the front of the line. It wasn't us that placed such a big stress over the VT shooting or Hurricane Katrina, it was your local news that placed the stress on our news. Why I don't know.

I do agree with you about the gun laws. They are highly flawed, so flawed and wrong I believe starting from scratch is the best because many of the laws in America, even the ones that aren't about guns, are based on a time where life was very diffrent. Thats obviously effecting Americans. Though I am finding some interesting things on the internet about gun laws. Dutch laws say you have to be 16 of years or older, but In America its 21 or older. Though the process of actually getting a firearm in The Netherlands is widely unknown to me.

I am pleased with the punishment for wrong use of a firearm in the USA though. Its universally a mandatory 20 years prison sentence for the first felon, the second is life sentence.

With such tough laws, and with so many "wrongs uses" of a firearm, then why do we hear about so many shootings? (school ones, drive bys, gang wars, whatever) If all those people were put in jail the jails would be overflowing. But then, that would depend on the definition of "wrong use"...

And yeah, who knows why local news people put so much media focus on American happenings...then again, it is a "superpower" so it's hard not to notice, but even so...

No no, you don't need to try and justify yourself because I know where your coming from (an American that looks outside the box : ] ). But I was never saying that the gun laws were strict at all, just that universal punishment was very good and I like it.

It's not just about Americans, it's about a fucking idiot who buys guns in America - and has no trouble at all buying them. Of course, if I wanted to buy a gun in the Netherlands I'd be able to get one, but I'd have to look hard - really hard, and get the "right" connections and wotsnot to get them, because they are illegal and are only available on the black market. But I'm sure that this keeps a lot of people from actually acquiring a gun - in America there's no threshold to get a gun, just go to a gunshop and get yourself one.

If this guy had used, let's say, a razor instead of a gun, a lot less people would have been killed, maybe even none at all. He would have been easier to stop. So yes, I AM blaming American gun laws, but no, I'm not blaming Americans - nobody wanted this to happen. I'm just saying Americans shouldn't act all sad and then do nothing - they should DO something about it. NOW. Because it'll happen again soon enough if things keep up the way they are. And I'm getting tired of having to see it on the news all the time, because I don't fucking care enough to see it every day. There's more shit going on in the world but as soon as something happens in the US people act as if it's the worst thing in the world.
I totally agree. Even when they say the law wouldn't be effective immediately (because in many households there's already a weapon), but it WOULD make a difference after one or two generations. You have to start somewhere, so better do it now.

But I seriously think they should have stricter gun laws in America. I agree with Angelic, it''d be pretty difficult to get one here in Australia too. Mostly, we're worried about natural disasters atm...what with the droughts and stuff
so how about signing the Kyoto-protocol? :):):) oh I forgot, the Australian government doesn't care about such things.

So yes, I AM blaming American gun laws, but no, I'm not blaming Americans - nobody wanted this to happen. I'm just saying Americans shouldn't act all sad and then do nothing - they should DO something about it. NOW. Because it'll happen again soon enough if things keep up the way they are. And I'm getting tired of having to see it on the news all the time, because I don't fucking care enough to see it every day. There's more shit going on in the world but as soon as something happens in the US people act as if it's the worst thing in the world.

o/


In the Netherlands an 8 year old was killed at his school half a year ago. Do Americans care about that? Nope. But we are expected to care about Americans shooting each other's heads off. Because America's so important.

Well that's hardly fair to say. Just considering that in the Netherlands it was only one child (and I mean that in the least belittling way possible) but the Virginia Tech incident was on a much larger scale of 33 casualties.
Plus, America has arguably the most powerful media influence of all the world, or at least greater than that of the Netherlands at any rate. No one's expecting you to care. They are freaking everywhere and there's little you can do to try and ignore them but no one's saying you have to care.


so how about signing the Kyoto-protocol? :):):) oh I forgot, the Australian government doesn't care about such things.

Neither does America. :)

what bothers me is that (at least my school) is treating it like some great tragedy. today i noticed the flags were half way down and i asked one of my friends why they did that and she told me she had googled it, when the American flag is halfway down is because a lot of its people have died. i was shocked we did that for some nut job killing people but not anyone else. it stands to reason that our flag would never be flying high if that was true. (if someone knows differently, please correct me. i am just going by what i was told. )

*Republicans are the types that support abortion, hates the war and loves the hybrids. on a stereotype at least.

Actually, those are the "Liberals" or the political style, "Democratic."

Republicans are vice versa to what you said. :P

Actually, those are the "Liberals" or the political style, "Democratic."

Republicans are vice versa to what you said. :P

i was pwned.

I always get them mixed up. Thats why you should be 18 to vote. Or Mazeppa : ]

going to college seems so scary now.

Well, things like this rarely happen. We have to know that it can happen anywhere, college, highschool, office building, whatever. There are risks like this wherever you go, you just learn to take the risk and move on with life.

Rarely happens? In the US it's an annual occurence =/

More then annual. I was talking to my friend about it and at first I was like "it happens once a year" but then I started to mention more shootings and threats. In the state of Oregon and S.W. Washington alone, in how far the year has gotten we have had over 5 bomb threats, 2 shootings and even a sniper threat. In like 4 months all that happened in not even TWO states.

I bet being an American just makes you mad. Scandinavia>America

@Matt:The Australian government is too busy trying to become the next America. The thing is, if Australia signs the Kyoto protocol (I for one and all for it, I guess I'm a bit of a greenie ^_^) America will be under enormous pressure to sign it too. That's why Peter Garrett should be Minister for the Enviroment. Plus, he's a rock star! The currnet minister relased this whacked statement as to why the Aust. government isn't gunna sign it.

@RD: wow that's pretty darn scary... The worst we have to worry about is there not being enough water and having to drink recycled water.

Well, its not much of a worry because the fear of a school shooting is low. Its more of the fear of a shooting/bomb threat.

More then annual. I was talking to my friend about it and at first I was like "it happens once a year" but then I started to mention more shootings and threats. In the state of Oregon and S.W. Washington alone, in how far the year has gotten we have had over 5 bomb threats, 2 shootings and even a sniper threat. In like 4 months all that happened in not even TWO states.

I bet being an American just makes you mad. Scandinavia>America

Western Europe and Southern Europe in general, with an exception of Spain, England and Norther Ireland because of bomb threats.

huh?

I just read an article where a European government actually gave their civilians guns, yet have the worlds lowest crime rates. [Scandinavia?]

I don't know about that, but I guess it also helps that Europeans in general think different about using guns than Americans do. Of course, there are exceptions but in general guns aren't tolerated as much here as they are in America.

True. I think it has to do more with how the society thinks about guns then having a gun, because even if guns are illegal, if people want to use one that bad they can get one.

Most American's see guns are a form of protection, and some think of it as a form of entertainment too. The first gives the "rights" for almost anyone that qualifies for a gun permit and/or license to get one. How do Europeans think of gun and gun use?

School Shootings in America

Feb. 2, 1996
Moses Lake, Wash.

Feb. 19, 1997
Bethel, Alaska

Oct. 1, 1997
Pearl, Miss.

Dec. 1, 1997
West Paducah, Ky.

March 24, 1998
Jonesboro, Ark.

March 24, 1998
Jonesboro, Ark.

April 24, 1998
Edinboro, Pa.

May 19, 1998
Fayetteville, Tenn.

June 15, 1998
Richmond, Va.

April 20, 1999
Littleton, Colo.

May 20, 1999
Conyers, Ga.

Nov. 19, 1999
Deming, N.M.

Dec. 6, 1999
Fort Gibson, Okla.

Feb. 29, 2000
Mount Morris Township, Mich

March 10, 2000
Savannah, Ga.

May 26, 2000
Lake Worth, Fla.

Jan. 17, 2001
Baltimore, Md.

March 7, 2001
Williamsport, Pa.

March 22, 2001
Granite Hills, Calif.

March 30, 2001
Gary, Ind.

Nov. 12, 2001
Caro, Mich.

Jan. 15, 2002
New York, N.Y.

April 14, 2003
New Orleans, La.

Sept. 24, 2003
Cold Spring, Minn.

March 21, 2005
Red Lake, Minn.

Nov. 8, 2005
Jacksboro, Tenn.

Aug. 24, 2006
Essex, Vt.

Sept. 26, 2006
Bailey, Colo.

Sept. 29, 2006
Cazenovia, Wis

Oct. 3, 2006
Nickel Mines, Pa

Jan. 3, 2007
Tacoma, Wash.

April 16, 2007
Blacksburg, Va.


All of these shootings resulted in atleast 1 death though a grand majority of them had atleast 3 deaths.

Well we think:

1. Americans don't know how to learn from their mistakes.
2. It probably reinforces our stereotypes of americans.
3. It's more dangerous in america

On a serious note, you got to watch out for the crazy guy in your school until your gun laws are changed. There wouldn't be mass killings if you didn't have guns. It's a cowardly way to kill. All you do is pull the trigger, whilst if you knife someone you feel like you're actually killing someone. Gangsters think they're well hard with guns, but they're just wimps really. If they didn't have guns, chavs could kill them.

The least america could do is limit the ammunition sold to people. That way you'd have to be an accurate shot to kill anyone while still limiting the casualties.

1. Americans don't know how to learn from their mistakes.
2. It probably reinforces our stereotypes of americans.
3. It's more dangerous in america

1. Because Americans have diffrent brains then the rest of the world, so we can't learn from mistakes?
2. Yes.
3. Shooting anyone is equably dangerous anywhere.

1. I'm taking up a pro-America point of view right now: Its hard to prevent someone with no previous criminal background other then a speeding ticket from getting a gun. Yes, he was on psychological medicines, but a lot of people are taking depression medicines for a lot of reasons, some don't have anything to do with depression, such as stress. And when you prevent one person who you assume if going to use the gun for malicious reasons [and assumed right], what if you get cocky and prevent other people who have no malicious intents? I say strengthen our laws or give everyone a machine gun like Scandinavia [?] does.

How do Europeans think of gun and gun use?
I can't speak for everyone here, but probably that a gun is a tool for killing. If noone had a weapon, no one would have to have a weapon to protect himself <_< So we don't get a weapon in the first place.

1. Americans don't know how to learn from their mistakes.
2. It probably reinforces our stereotypes of americans.
3. It's more dangerous in america
1. That's sad, but true. Not everyone in America, but too many people. At least the government.
2. :/
3. Yep.

Hmm my points were actually made half-jokingly but for the third point. It's more dangerous in america because you can gain access to guns more easily. I guess the gun laws are like what would happen with nuclear weapons on a global scale though. Nobody wants to relinquish them.

1. Because Americans have diffrent brains then the rest of the world, so we can't learn from mistakes?
2. Yes.
3. Shooting anyone is equably dangerous anywhere.



1) Apparently.
2) There's always a bi of truth in a stereotype.
3) But the more shooting there is, the more danger.

Scary x_x . Two of the school shootings were in the state I'm living in. You could say I'm scared at times when entering my school; there has been many problems with it recently.


1. Americans don't know how to learn from their mistakes.
2. It probably reinforces our stereotypes of americans.
3. It's more dangerous in america

1. True. :\
2. True.
3. True.

1. Because Americans have diffrent brains then the rest of the world, so we can't learn from mistakes?
2. Yes.
3. Shooting anyone is equably dangerous anywhere.

ts hard to prevent someone with no previous criminal background other then a speeding ticket from getting a gun.
Didn't he burn down a building and stalk two girls? On top of that his writing... I don't know. I think there were plenty of hints.

I've never heard of him doing that, but its likely.

To say that all Americans cannot learn from mistakes is stupid. There is a little truth in stereotypes, but if you don't let go of stereotypes then basically all hope for those who don't fit it is lost. Martin Luther King Jr.? Abraham Lincoln? Cesar Chavez?

Yeah, a list of great Americans who are beyond to the great American stereotype, but if you don't let it go you stop future Americans from being what those people were.

/im done. obviously guns are evil, guns in European hands are okay, America sucks and Scandinavia rules.

I've never heard of him doing that, but its likely.

To say that all Americans cannot learn from mistakes is stupid. There is a little truth in stereotypes, but if you don't let go of stereotypes then basically all hope for those who don't fit it is lost. Martin Luther King Jr.? Abraham Lincoln? Cesar Chavez?

Yeah, a list of great Americans who are beyond to the great American stereotype, but if you don't let it go you stop future Americans from being what those people were.

/im done. obviously guns are evil, guns in European hands are okay, America sucks and Scandinavia rules.

You named three Americans who might have done something good (I don't even know the Chavez person, but anyway...). We're not talking about individuals here, we're talking about Americans as a population. And in general, Americans aren't known for being very bright, but they are known for being agressive and use freedom as an excuse for everything.

If the right to bare arms which is in the bill of rights was to be taken away then what happens if someone robs you, tries to kidnap someone in your household?
on the other hand to get a gun is pretty affordable with lisence...

If the right to bare arms which is in the bill of rights was to be taken away then what happens if someone robs you, tries to kidnap someone in your household?
on the other hand to get a gun is pretty affordable with lisence...
You'd normally call the police. At least that's what everyone would do where I live. It's not very likely to be robbed (at least where I live) though, even more so being kidnapped (I haven't been kidnapped till now and prolly never will). That's no reason to allow anyone to keep a gun IMO.

You named three Americans who might have done something good (I don't even know the Chavez person, but anyway...). We're not talking about individuals here, we're talking about Americans as a population. And in general, Americans aren't known for being very bright, but they are known for being agressive and use freedom as an excuse for everything.

Chavez was a leader for illegal/ immigrant rights. Protested peacefully against the exploitations of them.

I guess freedom is an excuse for the Virgina Tech shooting? Freedom is the excuse for our government blowing up the twin towers [I'll lol at this one. lol]? Once again, stereotype.

Its because were all Satanist btw.

Chavez was a leader for illegal/ immigrant rights. Protested peacefully against the exploitations of them.

I guess freedom is an excuse for the Virgina Tech shooting? Freedom is the excuse for our government blowing up the twin towers [I'll lol at this one. lol]? Once again, stereotype.

Its because were all Satanist btw.

The freedom to carry guns, d'uh.

It is part of freedom. What is freedom when you are prohibited to have what could potentially be an object used for killing innocent people? If that is the case, then there should be a restriction of many objects just at your local Costco. Are cars becoming to dangerous also? What about frying pans? Guns aren't made to kill for fun or for anger, they are made to serve and protect.

Blame the pencil for writing mistakes?

It is part of freedom. What is freedom when you are prohibited to have what could potentially be an object used for killing innocent people? If that is the case, then there should be a restriction of many objects just at your local Costco. Are cars becoming to dangerous also? What about frying pans? Guns aren't made to kill for fun or for anger, they are made to serve and protect.

Blame the pencil for writing mistakes?

And it's exactly that attitude that makes Americans ignorant about their own gun laws.

I'm not disagreeing with your opinions about the sleezyness of American gun laws, but if you have paid attention to me before I said I like to take things up from multiple point of views because I believe it makes you less ignorant.

And because bashing America is so last year like bashing Microsoft was.

That's besides the point I'm making. What you say (Guns are for defense and everyone should be allowed to have one) is the exact opposite of the general European thought (Guns are killing devices and only authorised people like certain police officers should be allowed to have one - and not even all of them). This is a very good explanation why in America people walk around with guns in schools shooting innocent people; they should be allowed to have one after all.

Thats not the general tone American's have to guns. To many people, guns shouldn't be allowed. But to most, guns are a form of protection for people who qualify to posses one and desires to as a form of protection. We don't give the okay nod to the parents of children who steal their gun and shoot others. No, we frown at them. We also don't believe that anyone who desires a gun for any reason should get one.

Understand that for most people, guns are a form of protection and nothing more. If guns are banned for everyone, then what will happen when someone who gets one threatens you with it? The police has no guns, the person with their life on stakes has no guns, its that crazed person who could kill someone that has a gun. The only thing that can rival a gun is another gun. Thats why I want my parents to have a gun, because they own a store, where I, my aunt, my mom, my brothers, my father, my cousins, my grandparents, where their lives are at stake if they are clerks for the time when someone with evil intents and a gun strolls in. Are you saying my family should be denied a gun for the fear of our lives?

We're not talking about individuals here, we're talking about Americans as a population. And in general, Americans aren't known for being very bright, but they are known for being agressive and use freedom as an excuse for everything.

Yes, and the French Women in general are very hairy. Teens from England are the most horniest teens throughout europe (no joke). Polish tanks have 5 geers, 1 acceleration, 4 reverse. In general, Mexicans just sit around all day with a big hat drinking tequilla.

Just because they are known for something, doesn't mean anything. People in america are just as smart as people in any other country, if you dont think this to be true, I'd like for you to prove it. America is only agressive when it comes to protecting ourselves. I dunno, maybe your country doesn't mind to just roll over and play dead, but thats not how we americans think. When a problem arises, we face it. We don't wait five years for politicans to sit on their ass and in the end come up with "Lets invade". No shit buddy.

Asuka said what I could conjugate. Thanks <3

Maybe so, but that doesn't mean their way of thinking is different. In America guns are generally accepted as something you have for defence, in Europe they are considered something you have to attack others. THAT is the difference and as long as Americans keep thinking people have the right to carry a killing device around, things won't change.

Guns don't kill people, people do.

Maybe the fear is in the fear.

Even so, your comparison is of two totally diffrent countries. You could compare America's murder rate by gun to, say, the U.K., but America has over 300 million people, while the U.K. has over 30 million. Thats almost saying for every one killing by gun in the U.K., ten happened in America. On top of that, there is even a city in America that makes it so you have to have a personal gun to live in it. That city has dropping crime rates. The opposite happened to a city that had a ban on gun. Maybe that shows guns have nothing to do with it. Heres another very obvious example: if Los Angeles were to ban guns, do you think that their crime rates would climb or drop? I think it would stay the same, because people who kill others usually have a criminal background, so why not have an illegal gun? Then, if a town such as Depot Bay, Oregon were to give everyone a gun, I would think the crime rate would either stay where its at or go down. Why? All of this not only has to do with who has a gun or doesn't have one but also with where.

Aside from that, I feel very safe in America. I don't know about how safe people feel in the Netherlands, the U.K. or Japan, but I feel very safe here in America.

Lol, drive through Atlanta Georgia and tell me you feel safe.

I'm not even going to argue with you two anymore, you're just totally misses my point. THAT is what I'm trying to say.

Lol Angelic, I see your point, but you really can't know that for sure. Even if guns were banned in the states, that wouldn't stop people from getting them. For example, in the state of Kansas, fireworks are banned. So, when the fourth of july comes around, people only need to drive ten feet across the state border to find a fire-work shop. The same would happen if guns were banned through out all of america. Underground people would get guns from Cuba, canada, mexico and the like. The only thing (in my opinion) banning guns would do is make the black-market even bigger. It may solve a part of the shootings, but it would escalate in other places.

Guns don't kill people, people do.
That's so lame. Guns tempt people to shoot other people. If there weren't any guns, but only knives, I doubt many people would have the guts to cut someone.

Aside from that, I feel very safe in America. I don't know about how safe people feel in the Netherlands, the U.K. or Japan, but I feel very safe here in America.
Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Actually some people don't even look their cars when they go into a store ;P

For example, in the state of Kansas, fireworks are banned.
Why did they ban fireworks? Those jerks, lol.

But anyway, even if it's still easy to get fire arms illegally doesn't change the fact that less people will bother to do so.

So what your saying is just holding a gun will make people want to shoot others?

Well, your right about Japan having low street crime rates, but their robbery rates are higher then the U.k. and even America. So is their homicide rates, which is a staggering 95.9% compared to America's 68.3% [which I may add is lower then the U.K.'s and Germany's].

Now, I want to point something out. What I meant before about people getting guns illegally wasn't aimed at the regular Joe, but the kind of people who would want a gun for bad reasons, like killing or robbing.

Well, I'll leave with one more comment that basically repeats what I said but in one post.

Guns can be used to kill people, but thats not what the majority of humanity wants to use them for. The reason for gun use today if for protection. Though many people refuse to use it for that reason, I don't think its big enough for them to be banned. More people are saved by guns then killed. If someone with intents to kill wants it that bad, I would assume that the person would do it with a gun. But even if guns are not around, there would still be other ways to accomplish the task, such as mustard gas which can be made from everyday house hold cleaners.

There are many people who need a gun, or should have one. Store clerks is a good example. If a person is going to rob you, most likely the person will get a gun, legally or illegally. What will the clerks of the America/the world do without a form of instant protection, such as guns? I would rather a criminal be shot and die then someone who isn't one, though respectively I would rather have no one die. But if worse comes to worse, then I would pull the trigger if I would really have to.

To summarize it, more good comes out of guns then bad. Though there could be hundreds of dead from school shootings a year, that wouldn't rival those who are saved by the bullet [or just swinging out a gun].

So what your saying is just holding a gun will make people want to shoot others?
Hm, not really. But people who otherwise might keep their hatred to themselves, may feel tempted to just get the gun and shoot 'em. I highly doubt they'd take a knife to kill them (obviously there are people like that as well).

To summarize it, more good comes out of guns then bad. Though there could be hundreds of dead from school shootings a year, that wouldn't rival those who are saved by the bullet [or just swinging out a gun].
So why don't we give everyone at school a gun? So that they can shoot back when someone shoots at them? Why not make it like ages ago in the wild west? :)

I found this article on the web, it's really on-topic so you might want to check it out: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18248547/site/newsweek/

"Hard as it is to believe, right now federal law prevents our police officers from looking at all the data on guns used in crimes in our region. Where and when were they bought—and by whom? These are questions that we can't ask."

So what your saying is just holding a gun will make people want to shoot others?

Well, your right about Japan having low street crime rates, but their robbery rates are higher then the U.k. and even America. So is their homicide rates, which is a staggering 95.9% compared to America's 68.3% [which I may add is lower then the U.K.'s and Germany's].

Now, I want to point something out. What I meant before about people getting guns illegally wasn't aimed at the regular Joe, but the kind of people who would want a gun for bad reasons, like killing or robbing.

Well, I'll leave with one more comment that basically repeats what I said but in one post.

Guns can be used to kill people, but thats not what the majority of humanity wants to use them for. The reason for gun use today if for protection. Though many people refuse to use it for that reason, I don't think its big enough for them to be banned. More people are saved by guns then killed. If someone with intents to kill wants it that bad, I would assume that the person would do it with a gun. But even if guns are not around, there would still be other ways to accomplish the task, such as mustard gas which can be made from everyday house hold cleaners.

There are many people who need a gun, or should have one. Store clerks is a good example. If a person is going to rob you, most likely the person will get a gun, legally or illegally. What will the clerks of the America/the world do without a form of instant protection, such as guns? I would rather a criminal be shot and die then someone who isn't one, though respectively I would rather have no one die. But if worse comes to worse, then I would pull the trigger if I would really have to.

To summarize it, more good comes out of guns then bad. Though there could be hundreds of dead from school shootings a year, that wouldn't rival those who are saved by the bullet [or just swinging out a gun].

My question to you: why don't store cleriks in the Netherlands need a gun then?

Good insurance premiums?

My question to you: why don't store cleriks in the Netherlands need a gun then?

The crime rate of the Netherlands and America don't even compare, nor does the population. If you owned a store in a crime-infested area, you would want a gun too. But, I don't think theres a place in the Netherlands that has a high crime rate, not even Amsterdam.

(Now, please don't try to blame crime-rates on guns too, thats just ridiculous.)

(Now, please don't try to blame crime-rates on guns too, thats just ridiculous.)
*blames the crime-rate on gun laws*

the guy had apparently been banned from purchessing wepons after a psychological assesment. so wouldn't it be more appropriate to blame a system that doesnt check those who wish to purches something designed to kill something.... this brings far too many people into question

He bought the guns from a Pawnbroker or something.
Maybe they just don't check people there. I'm not sure..

My question to you: why don't store clerks in the Netherlands need a gun then?

Because the Netherlands is not America.

Don't compare countries anymore, because that doesn't get you anywhere. Its like what your parents always tell you when you were little "be the best you can be, no matter what anyone else is doing". Why can't America struggle with guns and try and get to the point where everyone can be safe and still hold a gun? Change doesn't come instantly, even change into perfection.

And thats beside the point. In America, its safe for a clerk to have a gun. Even if guns were banned, a thief could get a gun to help with their crimes if the person wanted one that bad. I believe you could get a gun illegally anywhere in the world, even your precious Netherlands. Better safe then sorry? I would rather kill a criminal then an innocent clerk any day if it came right down to it.

Now, giving a gun to everyone in a school is stupid. Schools are supposed to be a place of safety in the first place. Give a gun to everyone where it is needed. Like Scandinavia. Or the people of Atlanta, Ga. But in Newport, Or or Vancouver, Wa, I feel very safe walking down the street even at 2 in the morning.

Because the Netherlands is not America.

Don't compare countries anymore, because that doesn't get you anywhere. Its like what your parents always tell you when you were little "be the best you can be, no matter what anyone else is doing". Why can't America struggle with guns and try and get to the point where everyone can be safe and still hold a gun? Change doesn't come instantly, even change into perfection.

And thats beside the point. In America, its safe for a clerk to have a gun. Even if guns were banned, a thief could get a gun to help with their crimes if the person wanted one that bad. I believe you could get a gun illegally anywhere in the world, even your precious Netherlands. Better safe then sorry? I would rather kill a criminal then an innocent clerk any day if it came right down to it.

Now, giving a gun to everyone in a school is stupid. Schools are supposed to be a place of safety in the first place. Give a gun to everyone where it is needed. Like Scandinavia. Or the people of Atlanta, Ga. But in Newport, Or or Vancouver, Wa, I feel very safe walking down the street even at 2 in the morning.

You really are a fucking idiot aren't you? Take away the gun and make it harder for people to kill. People in America need guns to defend themselves because for others it's so easy to get one. Why? Because guns are generally accepted in America. The problem is that Americans are fucking idiots when it comes to guns in general. The easier it is to get a gun, the more people are tempted to get one and use it. As long as that mentality won't change, America will not be safe from shootings because people can walk around with guns like in the good old wild west. Guns shouldn't be needed for defense, and if they are needed so badly that they are generally accepted by the public as a means of defense, something is seriously wrong with your whole society.

im going with angelic on this, why does America have this need for guns that other countries dont

My question to you: why don't store cleriks in the Netherlands need a gun then?

This gun business is ridiculous and America should indefinately hold a national gun amnesty and melt them down. Guns for defense? This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. I have never seen a gun in my life. Ever. I wouldn't know how to use one...

Am I in grave danger?

No.

If people don't have guns then they can't shoot you and you don't need a gun to "protect" yourself.

And another thing that I have heard?

An NRA American stated that this is the reason the Americans have their precious constitution :

"If those unfortunate students had guns to protect themselves with... no one would have died. This is why we have the constitution - To protect our fellow Americans."

Of all the stupid things I have heard from by Americans... this is the biggest... ever.

You really are a fucking idiot aren't you? Take away the gun and make it harder for people to kill. People in America need guns to defend themselves because for others it's so easy to get one. Why? Because guns are generally accepted in America. The problem is that Americans are fucking idiots when it comes to guns in general. The easier it is to get a gun, the more people are tempted to get one and use it. As long as that mentality won't change, America will not be safe from shootings because people can walk around with guns like in the good old wild west. Guns shouldn't be needed for defense, and if they are needed so badly that they are generally accepted by the public as a means of defense, something is seriously wrong with your whole society.

I believe guns are the superficial problem to all this. If you fix the deeper problems that cause deaths by shooting, like poverty, then you might not have to take away guns.

Theres one final thing to all this though: you can't spew out shit like you know what will happen if what you say does happen.

Jaso, shut your damn mouth. Its because of people like you that America seems so crappy. Were not all NRA members, and even out of NRA members, I doubt all of them think that like. Are all Dutch people like Geert Wilders, were all Germans from WWII Nazis, were all white Americans from the Civil Rights Movement racists [good example, I could see people from around the world thinking this back then]? NO. Shut up. Obviously by talking about this, some of us think that there is something wrong, but before you can irrationally do something on a spur of the thought, maybe take the time to think and talk about what should be done, what would get the best job done and so forth. Instead of assuming all Americans are NRA members [or implying it].

An NRA American stated that this is the reason the Americans have their precious constitution :

"If those unfortunate students had guns to protect themselves with... no one would have died. This is why we have the constitution - To protect our fellow Americans."

Of all the stupid things I have heard from by Americans... this is the biggest... ever.
We have a right to guns thanks to the civil war as most people who fought in it were civilians, which is pretty much how it started. At this point though, the situation's not the same. Why we still have it, I don't know.

Also, what all of us are saying is a bunch of bull crap. Lets try and use more citations instead of personal opinions, which aren't facts. Just noticed that lol.

I would like a list of countries that do not allow civilians any form of firearm. Obviously America allows guns in some restrictions, while Japan, which we all agree has strict firearm laws, still has higher homicide rates then America[1]. Obviously, homicide can be linked to more then just death by gun, which many of you tried to rule out when I used a movement to knife death a while back[2].

1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan#Statistics)
2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_crimes_in_Japan)

Jaso, I am sick of all you bigoted American-bashers. You need to get it through your thick head that not all Americans are self-rightious blockheads.

It is enough for you to critisize our gun laws, but you do not have to place it at the fault of our mere being American. Is that so much a crime? Surely you have heard about American tourists in foreign countries being treated discriminately for their citizenship. You can hardly say that is just.
It is you and people of your mind set that have forced me to live my entire life telling people I am Canadian. This much I will say: I am American and I live in Canada, but I have the misfortune of living amongst a very, how shall I say this, opinionated area. People being the way they are now, are so very not understanding, that if I had had it known that I was, I certainly would have less friends than I do and probably would have been shot. (Probably an exaggeration..)

Jaso has a point though, I was actually waiting for someone to say "If those students had guns, then..."

Ah well, I don't really care. Every year people in America die in shootouts like this and nothing gets done to do something about this, so I kind of stopped caring. It's like the car bombings in Iraq, it's becoming so normal I don't care anymore :lol:

I still think car bombs in Iraq are horrible. I also still think the lives of many Africans, especially those in Dafur, is horrifying. Maybe thats the difference you and me. You may seem to care on the outside, while I will always care until I know I tried my hardest.

Currently, I can't do much other then find out why. Guns is superficial. Droughts is superficial. America in Iraq is superficial. It does deeper, such as why no one is helping the people in Dafur, or why there is great friction that goes years back between the Shia and the Sunni. To stop one car bombing or one more shooting isn't going to do much, because there will always be the new bomb and the new gun that is unmonitored.

Fix the friction, help the people. Then you don't have to worry about guns.

it experienced 1.1 murder per 100,000 population, compared with 3.9 for West Germany, 1.03 for England and Wales, and 8.7 for the United States that same year.
Did you even read your fucking source RD?
I'm back btw, everyone. To drop the hammer of great justice on all you dumbasses. XD
Tomorrow though, when I'm finished sleeping.
Look forward to it! ;)

Did you read what I fucking wrote? I was comparing, and quote "...Japan, which we all agree has strict firearm laws... has higher homicide rates then America[1]..."

boo hoo

Homicide. Japan. Not murder rate in West Germany.

Uh, what?

it [japan] experienced 1.1 murder per 100,000 population, compared with 3.9 for West Germany, 1.03 for England and Wales, and 8.7 for the United States that same year.
There, I bolded the important parts for you that time. Japan has 1.1 murders per 100,000 people. America has 8.7 murders per 100,000 people. Am I missing something or are you just very confused?

Excuse me if I'm wrong; I'm very tired and may very well be delusional.

Edit: Ah yes. Our murder rates are still higher per capita, yet Japanese murders take up more percentage of their overall crimes. So what you're saying is that even though we have higher murder rates, robbery rates, rape rates, j-walking rates, etc etc by population, Japan's "murder slice" on a pie graph of all the crimes in their country would still be bigger than the "murder slice" for our country. I see what you're saying now I think. Way to make America look even better - "Hey, we may have the highest murder rates per capita on the planet, but at least our crimes are more balanced by percentage! Wheeee!!~! Yay guns!!!"

Excellent argument.

I'm beginning to agree with Angelic on his whole "Americans are freaking stupid" argument, and I'm American myself. This is pretty bad. > <

Of course, I desperately need sleep. So it's very possible that I'm the stupid one right now. Hahahahahahahahaha. X3

"...homicide cases (95.9 percent, compared with 94.4 percent for Germany, 78.0 percent for Britain, and 68.3 percent for the United States"

Unless I'm delusional also and the higher the percent, the lower the homicides.

I'm delusional.

I feel really stupid right now : ]

WB Hopeless :shifty:
You cleared that up again even though I was just about to quote my ultimate source (http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/japan/crime.html) :/

Jaso has a point though, I was actually waiting for someone to say "If those students had guns, then..."
Actually I did, a few pages ago >_>

I must have missed that. Sorry \o

I believe guns are the superficial problem to all this. If you fix the deeper problems that cause deaths by shooting, like poverty, then you might not have to take away guns.

Theres one final thing to all this though: you can't spew out shit like you know what will happen if what you say does happen.

Jaso, shut your damn mouth. Its because of people like you that America seems so crappy. Were not all NRA members, and even out of NRA members, I doubt all of them think that like. Are all Dutch people like Geert Wilders, were all Germans from WWII Nazis, were all white Americans from the Civil Rights Movement racists [good example, I could see people from around the world thinking this back then]? NO. Shut up. Obviously by talking about this, some of us think that there is something wrong, but before you can irrationally do something on a spur of the thought, maybe take the time to think and talk about what should be done, what would get the best job done and so forth. Instead of assuming all Americans are NRA members [or implying it].


Jaso, I am sick of all you bigoted American-bashers. You need to get it through your thick head that not all Americans are self-rightious blockheads.

It is enough for you to critisize our gun laws, but you do not have to place it at the fault of our mere being American. Is that so much a crime? Surely you have heard about American tourists in foreign countries being treated discriminately for their citizenship. You can hardly say that is just.
It is you and people of your mind set that have forced me to live my entire life telling people I am Canadian. This much I will say: I am American and I live in Canada, but I have the misfortune of living amongst a very, how shall I say this, opinionated area. People being the way they are now, are so very not understanding, that if I had had it known that I was, I certainly would have less friends than I do and probably would have been shot. (Probably an exaggeration..)

I didn't suggest that all American's were NRA members, not at all. I was mentioning one NRA member - unless you consider America's population to be: 1.

Anyway, I suggest that you take the time to read posts ad digest what has been said instead of picking out key words and string together a few insults and swear words.

You don't have to do so to dissagree with someone you know. Take for example, Septermagick, who informed me that:


We have a right to guns thanks to the civil war as most people who fought in it were civilians, which is pretty much how it started. At this point though, the situation's not the same. Why we still have it, I don't know.

That is a sensible and mature way to argue (this is particularily for RD).

Oh, and also:


Jaso, I am sick of all you bigoted American-bashers. You need to get it through your thick head that not all Americans are self-rightious blockheads.

...what? I am not an American basher. Apparently I am mildly intelligent and I can function well. My head is of average thickness, considering its proportional size with others, and I did not meantion "self-rightious" or "blockheads" (having not collected this word into my vocabulary) in relation to Americans. I find it interesting as to where you got these words and would be more than happy to see where these words came from in my posts. Unless, that is, you made them up to make me look prejudgist?

It matters not.

I think thats enough for now. This thread is for discussing the unfortunate, yet perhaps preventable, incident in Virginia Tech; not a place to swear mindlessly at people who you think may be making racist/prejudgist comments about others: espicially when there is no (or, if you must insist, little) evidence of there being so.

I'm delusional.

I feel really stupid right now : ]
Was that a joke? Because to me, you really do seem to be confused right now, and it seems Matt agrees with me.

You cleared that up again even though I was just about to quote my ultimate source :/
Does anyone else know what RD is trying to get across right now?
Am I crazy in thinking that what he's saying doesn't make any sense? Or does he actually have a valid point right now? I'm going to feel very silly if I'm missing something here. Or was his "I feel silly right now" serious? It's so hard to tell over the internet, sorry RD. :heh:


WB Hopeless
Ah, thanks thanks.

:o OMG, it's Hopeless! (No pun intended.) (Unless..)


Anyway, I suggest that you take the time to read posts ad digest what has been said instead of picking out key words and string together a few insults and swear words.

You'll notice that I refrained from such.. frivolity, if you will.


...what? I am not an American basher. Apparently I am mildly intelligent and I can function well. My head is of average thickness, considering its proportional size with others, and I did not meantion "self-rightious" or "blockheads" (having not collected this word into my vocabulary) in relation to Americans. I find it interesting as to where you got these words and would be more than happy to see where these words came from in my posts. Unless, that is, you made them up to make me look prejudgist?

Not everything is literal, mind you now. Think harder.

And Jaso, I do insist that you really must expand your vocabulary.
Reading more literature is a good place to start.

Also, if what you claim is so, I'll apologize for the misconceptions, but I will site to you where I seemed to have picked up these implications, namely the last statement:


An NRA American stated that this is the reason the Americans have their precious constitution :

"..."

Of all the stupid things I have heard from by Americans... this is the biggest... ever.

I also find the "precious" a bit much, though I will say that I agree to it to some extent.


Now back on topic! :)

OMG, it's Hopeless! (No pun intended.) (Unless..)
Haha, my name was used in a pun! XD


Of all the stupid things I have heard from by Americans... this is the biggest... ever.
And yes Jaso, that statement does seem to be implying that you lump all Americans together in the "stupid NRA redneck" category, although you didn't explicitly say so. I somehow doubt that you in fact weren't doing just that, and are now trying to weasel your way out of it. ;)

And what's with our "precious" constitution? That statement was also very obviously undermining the very core of the American government. Pretty insulting really. I'd be insulted if I were the type to give a damn about what ill-informed people thought about my country. Good thing I'm not! X3

I will withdraw my use of the word precous, as I think that my word usage was poor. It matters not.

However I still do not understand this "lump all Americans together in the "stupid NRA redneck" category" and I don't understand what "weaseling out" is (can you explain?).


I somehow doubt that you in fact weren't doing just that

Even if I was a native English speaker I still don't think I would understand this...

P.S. What's a redneck?

Even if I was a native English speaker I still don't think I would understand this...
Hahah, sorry, I didn't know English wasn't your native language. I was basically just saying you were implying Americans were stupid in your earlier post, and now you were pretending that you weren't.

A "redneck" is the stereotypical NRA member/Southerner. They love guns, beating their wives, being illiterate, incest, racism, and just being stupid in general, haha. XD


I will withdraw my use of the word precous, as I think that my word usage was poor. It matters not.
Ah, thanks. :)

That post was chock full of ignorance.
And you probably don't understand that expression either.
(Just take out the "chock", and it pretty much means the same thing.)

English lessons:


I"lump all Americans together in the "stupid NRA redneck" category"

To place all Americans in the " 'stupid NRA redneck' category".


"weaseling out"

To act like a weasel, thus to squirm/struggle/lie/cheat/scrape/whatever your way out of a predicament (problem).


P.S. What's a redneck?

Colloquially: An uneducated [bigoted] white farm laborer, as in from Southern USA. (Not a stereotype I terribly agree with, by the way.)
Just imagine a farmer in Texas standing in the sun all day, getting sunburn on their neck, thus the term "redneck".
But Hopeless put it pretty well.


Even if I was a native English speaker I still don't think I would understand this...

English isn't my first language either. It's not even my second.

Edit:
I am not being obnoxious. He asked, and I merely delivered the answers.

That both helped me understand, and become completely confused as to what things are at the same time. That's... pretty special.

Nevermind ---> *Topic*

This should have just been named a "Gun Control" Thread...
However, there are many flaws in all those pro-guns people that I'm not sure where to begin, so... I'll just name off as many opposing views I read as I can and try to explain why yes, guns are a bad thing.

First off, guns may very well be the reason why there are more murders by *handguns* in the USA than other countries. For example, just based on about 10 years ago, handguns murdered 2 people in New Zealand, 15 people in Japan, 30 in Great Britain, 106 in Canada, 213 in Germany, and in the United States were there aren’t any major restrictions on guns? 9,390 people murdered. That's off the rest of the nations by quite a margin. Coincidence? Perhaps.

Case two: Screw the Second Amendment. Bush went around and completely deleted Amendment IV for his own amusement, I think he can tinker around with the Second Amendment to protect his people. Just in case there are some of you who keep claiming that the Second Amendment is part of a USA citizens' right and such to have guns, let's have a little refresher on what, exactly, the Second Amendment *is*:


“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

However, keep in mind this Second Amendment was written more than two centuries ago, and meanings have changed. Back then, a Militia was all able-bodied men. They were expected to drill regularly under the leadership of a local officer, and they were expected to bring their own guns to use in defence of the country if needed. This is where the conflict begins. Today, the common counter to this is that all able-bodied people should be considered potential defenders of this country, and therefore all citizens should be allowed to have guns. But the flaw in this is that people do not keep guns in their homes today in the spirit of being part of a militia. If they have guns, it is for personal pleasure[that's a problem], the illusion of protection[that's a great potential for a problem], or for criminal purposes[that's a problem]. Those who have the duty to protect our nation are the only ones that should have weapons. Hence giving the actual meaning nowadays to "militia". And yes, of course, there's *that* argument that if only the law enforcement people have guns, they can just abuse their power but then again, what keeps them from doing it now? They have more access to stronger guns and such things now and it wouldn't be any different or any more control so you might as well go ahead and get rid of guns from people who are inexperienced to use them.

Another thing, "self-defence"? That's nonsense. Again, buying a gun to protect your home is just an illusion of protection. How often do you see in the news that a homeowner defeated a robber with a gun? Not often enough. For example, 18,000 home burglaries were recorded in Detroit metropolitan areas, and yet only one burglary victim was killed. In the entire decade from 1958-1967, 20 burglary victims were killed in NYC, whilst in 1967 alone more than 150,000 burglaries were reported to the police. Coincidence? Perhaps.

So ownership of handguns by citizens for self-protection is more a psychological belief than actual deterrence to criminals. It's also something like 50% of kills during a robbery is when a citizen’s gun is stolen or used against him/her during the crime, and the gun is used against them. Ironic, I'd say.

'Nother point. It has been pointed that if a criminal wanted to kill, it doesn’t matter what the laws are, they’d find a way to kill. That is true. However, if there is a gun control policy, the chances of the criminal succeeding in receiving a weapon that can kill someone instantly when the criminal is safely far away is minimal. Or at least less. Also, guns are the most cowardly way to kill someone. It actually does deter people to actually get a knife, get up close and personal to the person they're about to gut, and kill 'em. It does, really, look up the statistics on knifing deaths and handgun deaths if you don't believe me. Also, knifing someone to *death* does take skill, believe it or not.

Again, you know, the least the government can do is make it harder to get a gun. End the easy access. Background checks should be performed or psychological profiling. Waiting periods should be installed. Waiting periods allow the guns to arrive later while giving the law enforcement officials more time to do background checks. It's also a “cooling off” period so that someone who is angry can’t impulsively buy a gun and then turn around and shoot people from anger. There can also be a ban on dangerous accessories such as certain types of bullets that can pierce through bullet-proof vests, or require safety devices on every gun such as a trigger lock to prevent accidents. There could be an increase in penalties for gun crimes, or raise the gun ownership age or the gun price. Put all of those procedures together and bam, hasslesome process for everyone.

I would like to point out that I am not saying banning guns would completely end all handgun-related deaths. But it would help lessen it. Compare a person who wants to kill someone and all they have to do is go to the local gun store and purchase a gun in one day, and, say, a person who’s in a nation with gun control that has to find a black market, risk his own life just to find a gun, and then finally use it. That kind of hassle may deter some people, especially school violence. *cough cough* School shootings have many cases where the shooters were able to find guns in their relatives’ cabinet or again, were able to purchase it.

That's all for now.

o/

I heil to you.

You are my new.. hero!

I've never said that about anyone before, haha. Feel special.

I try.

I do hope people actually read the whole thing instead of being selective and picking out the parts that are the most convenient to them even though it is completely irrelevant out of context.



Edit: I feel very special indeed! And in the good way this time. o.o;

o/

I did.

And I'm surprise about it too.

*lacks adequate attention span*

Well, he stated his case a million times better than I could ever hope to...

*bows*

You meant she and her, of course.

*snorts*

I apologise, I was always taught that when switching from:

Masculine
} Neutral
Femenine

Male were dominant as that is how life is.

Or I could admit I was too ignorant to check DZV's gender...

And here I was thinking that the convenient "male/female" display under the join date under the avatar was very obvious.

It's all right though, Jaso. You're not the first.

I just assumed! :cry::cry:


You talked like a male in a sort... obvious and blunt...

Male were dominant as that is how life is.

Oh ho! Getting sexist now, are we?

Was that a joke? Because to me, you really do seem to be confused right now, and it seems Matt agrees with me.

Does anyone else know what RD is trying to get across right now?
Am I crazy in thinking that what he's saying doesn't make any sense? Or does he actually have a valid point right now? I'm going to feel very silly if I'm missing something here. Or was his "I feel silly right now" serious? It's so hard to tell over the internet, sorry RD. :heh:


Ah, thanks thanks.

I really did feel stupid. I misread my facts. It was the number of SOLVED homicide cases, not homicide cases. I retract my statement about Japan, but not the rest.

Jaso, I only recently used curse words. After so many post of "Americans just can't learn," or "Americans are all red-necks" I snap.



Though I did not grow up around guns [the only gun I've seen were on cops and one hunting rifle my dad one but sold quickly because he did not want anything to do with it] I still believe it is the person who uses the gun that is to blame, not the gun itself. Though I retracted my Japanese homicide statement, my other statement about the use of non-firearms for mass attacks still stands. I still believe guns are for protection, and used for anything other should have a very big punishable and near unforgivable.

After so many post of "Americans just can't learn," or "Americans are all red-necks" I snap.

My point exactly. o/

I'm United States American though. o.o;.

I really did feel stupid. I misread my facts. It was the number of SOLVED homicide cases, not homicide cases. I retract my statement about Japan, but not the rest.

Ah, all right. I was so confused there; it's impossible to read sarcasm on the internet, so I didn't know whether you were being sarcastic because I'd actually missed something or what. XD

And this argument seems to be pretty much over but...I'd say that gun control laws should be much stricter too. If you want to protect yourself, there are a million ways besides guns to do so. Guns are probably the easiest, least expensive, and most convenient way of protecting yourself, but as I think we all know...the easiest, fastest, most convenient ways of doing things are almost never the best ways. Otherwise we'd all be rich from sitting on our asses all day, right? X3

guns are to shoot the guy who killed everyone in case he didn't shoot himself first~
if everyone carried a gun with them, America will be a massive shoot out~

If America was a bunch of idiots.

I will only assume the best of Americans, that if they claim they only want guns for protection that they will live up to their words. Because of that, I think even if you give everyone a gun, only the homicidle maniacs would shoot [though I bet they already had gun... GANGSTERS]. If not, then the same would apply to the rest of the world.

BTW, its because of statements like that that guns are used for bad reasons.

Hmmm if the guy shot your friend, you would shoo him and his friend would shoot you and a chain reaction would happen until you reach a sad loner~

Thats just stupid. I wouldn't shoot the person unless I absolutely had to.

And I know the world isn't as stupid as that idea.

I heard about a study once where an experiment was carried out:
an actor in a rigged electric chair (so it doesn't really have electrical currents flowing in it)
and everyday people, when the scientists asked the everyday people to push the button to apply shock to the actor over 80% of people did it even when they uped the voltage to the dangerous state.
In the Rape of Nanjing there were everyday Japanese men made into killing machines because they had to obey their superiors.
now think, if people will kill hurt others when you ask them to, what would happen if they were doing it out of vengence for someone who was important to them?

a gun means some sense of power, and most people cannot handle power in that sense when their loved ones are hurt. Think of all the family of those who died at Virgina Tech, if the killer was still alive most people would want to go after him regardless of police and the justice system.

Theres a great difference from killing to obey your superior and killing for vengeance. Theres psychological backings behind why people will obey superiors orders, such as why they will electrically shock someone close to them if told to by a boss, which was a study. And then theres the idea of self importance over superiors, ie if your superior tell you to do something against your will, you most likely wont do it. And even after that, the emotions of revenge and orders differs from each individual, instead of being a generalized stigma for everyone.

I think your assuming to little of humanity. I would rather die then kill anyone I didn't have to, ie if the world would explode if someone wasn't killed. I'd pop a cap on that person in a split second.

Enough Bash-America. Enough Pro-America. Does America have more shootings than elsewhere? Yes. Do we have more restrictive and lax laws than other countries? Yes. But what does this have to do with killing people with guns?

The reasons people are driven to kill are quite simple to grasp, and they affect EVERYONE.

Restriction, Morale, Ethos, and Mentality. These are the four elements that make human sanity. If you look at those that kill, you'll see this pattern. Usually the killer has a mass change in personal morale. This breaks down Ethos. Mentality follows through conditioning of these two aspects over time, and all that's left is restriction; which goes rather quickly once you cross the line.

The levels of these aspects and what it takes to trigger them are independent from one individual to another. There is no set co relation between them that determine if you're to be a killer or not.

So all this "Americans like to kill people with guns because their American" is shit. A human is a human. Actually, every god damned claim of "Americans are generally stupid" is quite the idiotic claim. If you feel you're culture is so much better, then why must you prove this claim in vocal attacks? That's like a kid that gets an A in math from copying another's homework and one that doesn't copy and gets an A. The cheater boasts about their accomplishments, but the latter merely nods in response without excitement. If you're that kind of good, you only need to defend yourself when being attacked. Otherwise you keep your head out of the game.

I'm not claiming that you are 100% false. I'm stating you should not make claims stating that if you place an American next to an — Oh — Scandinavian and claim the American will shoot before the other, just because they're American. Look at the logic of the situation, idiots! Human and Human.

No different from a bunch of racists... Oh wait. Let's use a more appropriate term! Elitists.

Oh yeah. A quick jog over to the FAQ and you'll find this....


Any of the following with NOT be tolerated and may result in removal of your account:

* Any form of racism or racial elitism.

Ok. My rant is done.

*was being general about the killing part w/ experiment thing (serious)*

*was saying american shoot out as a joke*

I'm stating you should not make claims stating that if you place an American next to an — Oh — Scandinavian and claim the American will shoot before the other, just because they're American. Look at the logic of the situation, idiots! Human and Human.

Bit silly way to compare the two, but I wouldn't be surprised if on average, if you put a European person and an American person in the same situation in which they are threatened the American would more easily reach for a firearm. This has nothing to do with them being stupid, it's a culture thing in which guns are more accepted amongst Americans.

It's just stupid that they don't do anything about it. See Dominate_ze_world's post for things the government could do. If you can do all that, why not do it? THAT is just stupid.

And it doesn't go for just America, it goes for every country where guns are legalised.

I agree. No country in this world should allow citizens to have guns coz someone could use it to murder, assassinate or threaten other people besides lil children at home could mistake it for a toy gun and shoot someone accidently. Once a little boy shot his younger bro with a real gun inside the house. And so many shootings have been reported esp. underaged peps using guns inappropriately e.g. the shooting recently in Virginia. If the government allows their citizens to own guns then at least get them to get a gun license hence the weaponry shops can only sell guns to peps who only use their guns when they need to defend themselves.

You've gotta point, but in the U.S., we've got our second amendment. While gun laws are necessary, an outright ban I do not like. Besides, criminals are not going to stop getting a gun because they are illegal. Oh yeah, knuuti-chi, you're definetly right. I agree whole-heartedly my pasty-faced friend.

Jaso, I only recently used curse words. After so many post of "Americans just can't learn," or "Americans are all red-necks" I snap.

But I said neither...

Oh come on, did no one read that post I made? That's depressing. Honestly:


You've gotta point, but in the U.S., we've got our second amendment. While gun laws are necessary, an outright ban I do not like. Besides, criminals are not going to stop getting a gun because they are illegal. Oh yeah, knuuti-chi, you're definetly right. I agree whole-heartedly my pasty-faced friend.


However, keep in mind this Second Amendment was written more than two centuries ago, and meanings have changed. Back then, a Militia was all able-bodied men. They were expected to drill regularly under the leadership of a local officer, and they were expected to bring their own guns to use in defence of the country if needed. This is where the conflict begins. Today, the common counter to this is that all able-bodied people should be considered potential defenders of this country, and therefore all citizens should be allowed to have guns. But the flaw in this is that people do not keep guns in their homes today in the spirit of being part of a militia. If they have guns, it is for personal pleasure[that's a problem], the illusion of protection[that's a great potential for a problem], or for criminal purposes[that's a problem]. Those who have the duty to protect our nation are the only ones that should have weapons. Hence giving the actual meaning nowadays to "militia". And yes, of course, there's *that* argument that if only the law enforcement people have guns, they can just abuse their power but then again, what keeps them from doing it now? They have more access to stronger guns and such things now and it wouldn't be any different or any more control so you might as well go ahead and get rid of guns from people who are inexperienced to use them.


'Nother point. It has been pointed that if a criminal wanted to kill, it doesn’t matter what the laws are, they’d find a way to kill. That is true. However, if there is a gun control policy, the chances of the criminal succeeding in receiving a weapon that can kill someone instantly when the criminal is safely far away is minimal. Or at least less. Also, guns are the most cowardly way to kill someone. It actually does deter people to actually get a knife, get up close and personal to the person they're about to gut, and kill 'em. It does, really, look up the statistics on knifing deaths and handgun deaths if you don't believe me. Also, knifing someone to *death* does take skill, believe it or not.

ive read your post and agree with alot of what you say. Although, yes, criminals will still atempt to get guns but atleast it'll be alot more difficult.

in this case gun 'control' was the problem. he had been banned from possessing a firearm.

random questio, which country produces these firearms? because removal of these firearms from circulation and stopping production for the public will help on the path.

I read your post, DominateZW, and I agreed with the whole thing. So I didn't have to argue with you, haha.

http://www.sorethumbsonline.com/d/20070425.html

:lol:

Ninja stars... that's silly, where would you buy clips?
I don't agree with that michael moore film bowling for columbine, nor do I promote gun use by the ignorant...
Will have my complete thoughts in 2 days time >>

lmao Angelic. That strip was epic. XD

I enjoyed the Bowling for Columbine cartoon clip. As cynical as it was, it managed to convey a very serious message... that only a hondful of people heed.

If I lived in America, I most certainly would never get involved with guns, and would dispose of any that get anywhere near my house.

However, I don't live in America. ^_^

PS. American constitution - does this cover southern America and Canada?

What is goin on w/ Virginia Tech. ON the news they said that before the shootings there were about 3 bomb warnings. Also a teacher of the shooter said that the student who did the shootings was sounding suicidal in his english writings. She tried to warn people but nobaody litsened. When someone warns you about something like that even if u dont believe it is true you should still take action.

PS. American constitution - does this cover southern America and Canada?

CANADA AND SOUTH AMERICA IS NOT PART OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
WHEN SOMEONE SAYS "AMERICA" THEY ALWAYS MEAN "USA-AMERICA".
DO YOU NOT KNOW ANYTHING.


Also a teacher of the shooter said that the student who did the shootings was sounding suicidal in his english writings.

Yes. See the second post on this thread.


She tried to warn people but nobaody litsened. When someone warns you about something like that even if u dont believe it is true you should still take action.

Maybe not action, per se. That would be rash. Precautions would be more sensible.

I think in this case I ment actions as in precautions what other type of actions could you do, with out violiating rights.

Do you know why we have the second amendment? In colonial times, inhabitants of the original thirteen colonies were not allowed to have guns. So when we wanted to revolt, and we sent the declaration of independence to England, they basically laughed, because the colonies had no weapons and England was one of (if not -the-) most powerful country in the world. So after they won, the founding fathers wanted to give the people access to guns incase the government needed to be removed in the form of a revolution, or to keep security.

Now ask yourself if that still applies today.

Yeah I know the 2nd amendment rights for the past couple of months I lived and breathed amendments in Us History.

Answering Musicanangel820 Q:
B/C the constitution is so flexible people can interpreted any way they want and thus the intential reason for that right being there becomes lost. If stuff like the Virginia Tech shooting happens then doesn't that send a red flag that to many people are able to access guns easily. I know that was the starting point but times have changed I dont think that people in the colonial time would shoot and kill innocent people in public places as much as it occurs now. Is Depression becoming greater as time progresses, b/c depression seams to lead to suicied. Did people back in the day commit suicide as much as now? Maybe technology and all the material things that people have now makes them greedy, jealous, angry,and others. Do these material things trigger depression. I don't know maybe I looked to much into this.

So after they won, the founding fathers wanted to give the people access to guns incase the government needed to be removed in the form of a revolution, or to keep security.

Now ask yourself if that still applies today.

With George Bush as president? I think it just might apply today. We could use a revolution right about now. XD

The act of impeachment will always be better than revolution.

lmao Angelic. That strip was epic. XD

I'd say keep reading, it makes fun of conservative Americans on several occasions (by making them seem like nerdy and childish people who don't listen to reason XD)

^lol, it has been bookmarked for justice. Conservative anybodys are usually hilariously stupid. A strip about conservative Americans just strikes closer to home, making it even better. Heheh.

aw man im korean and when i heard about this i almost threw up
that guy is a disgrace to the whole korean community

Thats really cold hearted.

First, people need to remember no one is born a killer. If its anyones fault it is the community killers live in, the ones that breed killers. Second, no one should be ashamed of him. No one should push what he did over also. Instead, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing such atrocities to be bred. He may have had Korean decent, but he lived in America, not Korea. Koreans should be ashamed if an American born in Korea went on a killing rampage also, no Americans.

aw man im korean and when i heard about this i almost threw up
that guy is a disgrace to the whole korean community

Not really, he's a disgrace to everyone, and mostly himself, really.

Oops, nevermind.

http://shootingmessengers.blogspot.com/2007/05/babys-got-beretta-and-license.html
Gotta love US gun laws. :)

Hahah, hilarious. Like the article said though, the FOID card thing didn't really matter. It was just a funny loop-hole.