Hmmm yes but I get the idea :) like regalia!

very dramatic.... I see what you mean about the midi :) so I had to add some of my logic instruments to get an idea ... bet it sounds cool on some nice real instruments.

Hey, I was thinking about adding a piano part, but now I am going to for sure after I get most of the song done. :P

BTW, if you need something to view finale files (mus) with, finale reader is a free download....

Don't remember how much I added, but I've been working on this alot. Comments! Please and thank you! XD

IMO, at around 9, the melody loses direction.

Ooh, I see what you mean. Problem solved now? :think:

I still think it goes all weird at measure 9. It suddenly shifts to major, and it makes it sound happily demented. It sounds like you're trying too hard to match up the melody and harmony. Make sure you pick melodies that match the feel of the piece, the feeling that you're going for. Also, meas. 11, the D in the cello clashes with the C's elsewhere; it sounds unintentional. If it is intentional, make sure it matches the feel so the listener won't get a jarring feeling from the sudden shift in the feel. Am I making sense?

I see what you mean...:heh:

The dissonance at 11-13 is intentional though. I'll try to make it better so people don't suddenly get a 'wtf' moment while listening. :P

edit: ALL BETTER....I think. XD Not going to move on with this until I get the crap in the beginning to not be crap. :P

lol...I forgot the attachment....:heh:

You got a MIDI or something? I don't have that version of finale.

I think I am done with the intro now, so tell me what you guys think! :heh:

In the very beginning melody, after a few of those rising notes, you could probably add some harmony (some major/minor 3rds) to those notes before the melody goes off. Overall it would benefit from more harmony.

In glancing at past posts, you mentioned that you have a problem with the flow in your pieces (which is the problem this one has). I think that can be fixed with the concept of 4-bar phrasing. When you fully understand and master that, then you can break out and make your phrases as short or as long as you want. Phrasing helps the listener know the direction of your music and to know where it's going.

In the very beginning melody, after a few of those rising notes, you could probably add some harmony (some major/minor 3rds) to those notes before the melody goes off. Overall it would benefit from more harmony.

In glancing at past posts, you mentioned that you have a problem with the flow in your pieces (which is the problem this one has). I think that can be fixed with the concept of 4-bar phrasing. When you fully understand and master that, then you can break out and make your phrases as short or as long as you want. Phrasing helps the listener know the direction of your music and to know where it's going.

^ Yes, I agree. For the most part, you're doubling violins and cellos in octaves, which isn't bad, but will get boring if you overuse this duo. Violas are also more capable of a responsive sound (with a strong attack), so use them depending on the mood you want. Like Al said, structure your piece in phrases to give it a better sense of direction.

Beating on a dead horse, phrasing and harmony would do this piece some good. :heh:

Sorry I haven't updated in a while...:P Stupid homework.

The ranges of the timpani in Regalia are a little off. That first low D is possible to achieve but it sounds really muddy and just bad in my opinion. And those D's above the staff in measure 8 are out of even the 20 inch's range, if I'm not mistaken. Try using other notes besides just D's for the different chords. Timpani are great instruments that can really heighten the dramatic strength of a piece if used correctly.

Also adding to the Timpani note, make sure you use a limited amount of notes! Remember that you can only play as many notes as you have timpani's at once or else you have to have enough time to somehow re-tune a drum during the performance.

Ah, I knew trying to add percussion was a bad idea. XD How many timpanis are usually out at one time during a performance?

BTW, can anybody tell me the range of a timpani please? :P

Average is probably 3, right?

Only 3? Now that I think about it, my school uses 4....:think: I guess I'll just write it for 4....

Yeah 3 to 5. Depending how much money your music program has. XD

Haha. Judging by the school cellos that have holes in them, it makes me wonder where they got money for 4 or 5 timpanis. :P

Anyway, as much as I want to stay up all night working on this song, I've got a japanese test tomorrow that I still need to study for. XD So I guess I'll have more updates tomorrow. Gotta try to finish this one by april so I can enter it in my school's composition contest. :P

Refer to this site for help with writing parts for the timpani: http://members.cox.net/datimp/mus1.html

So, assuming that there are 4 timpanis in use, does that mean I'm just limited to 4 notes? Or can this pedal that the site talks about make adding more notes possible? :heh:

Well I have seen (haven't played yet though) etudes for timpani where retuning the drums is required after every note, but in cases like these the tempo is very slow. Timpanists are definitely used to changing the tunings during orchestral pieces, but this is usually when there is a key-change. So theoretically, you can use as many notes as you want (as long as they are in the ranges), but this is not really the function of timpani. They're not really melody instruments after all. :P
And on the subject of the ranges, I use two acronyms in both playing and composing for timpani:
D-F-B-D (Don't Fetch, Bad Dog) -these are the general ranges for the 4 lowest drums
and FADE (like the word) -these are the lowest notes that each drum sounds best at. These ideal ranges extend until they reach the next drum.
Ex: the lowest is from F-G, the next is from A-C etc.

I like your analogy for DFBD. XD

I already wrote the ranges of a timpani on a peice of manuscript, so I'm gonna tape it to my tv, in hopes of memorizing it. :P (yay for using my tv as a monitor!)

Anyway, I know I didn't add alot, but my computer is being a bitch right now, so I figured might as well post what I have until my speakers decide to stop making popping noises every time I hit the play button. <_<

I got a 8bit VST for finale, so I decided to experiment with it. :P This is supposed to be a theme for some kind of castle at night. I used the triforce 8-bit VST to make this...I forget where I got it, so google it if you want it. XD

Also, finale messed up the time for the recording...it's not 5 minutes long, its only about 30 seconds. :P

Comments please, I'm kind of stuck on these. :heh: The bottom one is something I'm going to enter in our school's composition contest. (since it probably won't be done in 2 weeks...)

Zippy, honestly, you're going to have to post more than six measures to get credible feedback. Please do more!

I can't see what you're trying to do, so I don't know if the random incoherence is intended or not.

I can't listen to the .Mus. But the 8-bit one have very short parts that you can expand. That is, if you create phrases with that constant parts you can have something that can work. But still a lot of randomness around there.

it sounds way better then anything I ever composed, keep up the good work

Well, i'm stuck on the piano peice, but I'm almost done with the first movement of this 8 bit experiment. XD

Basically, this is supposed to be BG music for a sorcerer's castle or something, during nighttime. :P

8bitsonatainC#.zip (http://uploadingit.com/files/1059876_o07xs/8bitsonatainC%23.zip)

I'm having trouble accessing the file. Can you provide a midi please?

Not for the 8 bit song. I did make a midi earlier, and it is absolute crap..instead of 8 bit sounds or anything remotely close, it plays back as a warm synth pad, which drowns out any music. T_T

I think is broken, I tried to download the last one, but just don't download. Maybe you should re-upload it. Or re-upload it when you have more of it.

I fixed it.

Ok, I thought of a different approach for this one, since what I had before really wasn't going anywhere. XD

Well, I've been working on this one a bit more...

If only I could open it...

composition contest.xml (http://uploadingit.com/files/1065075_b0ppb/composition%20contest.xml)

Here you go. Just open this like you would open a mus file. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU4Y_eedhuk&feature=channel_page&fmt=18

Anybody know what kind of drum that is in the background? I want to try making a song like this, but I can't if I don't know what kind of drum it is...XD

I worked on this for a while, comments please! I changed some of the chord progressions, so I want to know if they are good/bad changes. :sweat:

Sounds like a bass drum to me.

About your composition for the contest: sorry to tell you this, but it's really pretty bad. It has really bad voice leading, and there's no melody to catch the ear. The block chords in the bass give it a really muddled sound. Your chord progressions are just weird because it sounds like you're mixing a classical feel with something modern, and it doesn't really work. I guess it just sounds pretty random...I would probably start over if this is what you're doing for the competition and do something a bit more natural for you; I think it sounds so random because you were trying too hard.

Sorry if you feel I'm being overly critical. I'm only trying to help!

No, don't be sorry. I'd rather have someone tell me straight up that something sucks.

This is for a contest at school though (no way I'm going to do something in 5 days) so I have some time I guess. Is there a better chord progression to use here? I totally love the melody I made, and would hate to waste it. XD

Oh! I forgot to mention that I only commented on the .xml version you made, so I haven't listened to it with any of the changes. Would you mind making a new one of the newest version?

It's not too different...XD Although, I just want to say thanks for pointing out it was too modern, because I decided to try this song for a drum set and an electric guitar just for the hell of it, and it ended up being 100 times better. :D So as soon as I get my soundclick account up and running, I'll upload it.

edit: Or, since soundclick doesn't allow wav files, here you go! (http://uploadingit.com/files/1067387_6rxp1/composition%20contest%202.zip) It's still a work in progress, so don't mind the random drum-only part at the end...:P

I think the reason the melody sounds so random now is that it doesn't have any sense of symmetry in the phrasing; for example, if you took the first few measures of melody (until you come to your first or second cadence) and mirrored it in some way that helped transition into the next section or give the listener something to grab on to, it would help a lot. For a quick example, you could look a the "Clarinet Sonata" I've been working on which is posted in my thread.

I see what you are saying...I ditched everything after the first few measures, since I just realized it was random as hell....XD

I decided to take another stab at this one...:heh:

*sigh* If only Finale hadn't been stupid and made Finale Notepad 2009 cost money. Any chance of another XML?

zippy: I like this; it's a nice beginning to some potentially very good music. But that last measure kinda bothers me, since there's nothing there that it leads to (hopefully the intention was to add it later). Otherwise, nice job.

deathraider: You can use the free trial of Finale Notepad 2009. You won't be able to print more than the first page (or print at all after the trial is over) but you can continue to read, listen, and evaluate pieces written in newer Finales even after the 30 day trial period is over.

Really? Last time I checked I couldn't find any trial version for this year. I'll check again.

Edit: Ahhh, I see...Finale reader, eh? OK, we'll try this.

zippy: I like this; it's a nice beginning to some potentially very good music. But that last measure kinda bothers me, since there's nothing there that it leads to (hopefully the intention was to add it later). Otherwise, nice job.

Thanks! :D But which piece are you talking about? The one for the composition contest or 1-9 mvt 2?

Yeah, if I leave anything at the end empty, I will add to it. It's just that my musical brain probably crashed there and I had to stop for a while. XD

that comment was for 1-9 mvt. 2. I felt that there was plenty of good advice on the contest piece already so I'd wait for the revisions before commenting on it.

Oh good, I was hoping it was 1-9. This song has been practically dead for months because I couldn't think of anything to add to it...XD

And this song has risen from the dead! (COD 5 NAZI ZOMBIES ANYONE? XD) I finally thought of stuff to add to it...hopefully I can finish it over spring break and enter it into the composition contest at school. :D

And yes, the empty ending means I will eventually add something there...it's just that it's 9:30 over here, and if I don't stop, I'm going to keep working and realize "oh shit, it's 11 and I need to get up at 5:30 for school" :P

I've worked on this alot more...I hate the piano part at the end, suggestions/comments on that greatly appreciated. :heh:

I finally thought of a piano part. XD Comments please!

Four posts and still nothing. I would comment, but not Finale in this PC.

http://www.finalemusic.com/Reader/

You can use that if your computer doesen't have finale...:P

edit: I hate to be a pain in the ass, but I really need comments on this! I'm entering it into the composition contest at school, so I want it to not turn out like shit. XD

Updated version, comments please! :P

I would comment but I can't open finale. If you save them as midi or something I could have a listen.

As a start, unless you want the cellist to hate you you should avoid using alto clef. Furthermore, for the slurs that you have in the cello part, you need only mark the down bow once, and the player should understand that that means to keep going the same direction.

Compositionally, you really need to edit what you have and make sure that your chords all flow (this is probably my biggest complaint), and that your non-harmonic tones still make sense within the structure of the chords. Furthermore, check your voice leading in the four part section in the piano part; it's not great. Remember not to double the leading tone. Measure 22-23 don't sound good; it is an interesting idea, but I don't really think it worked in that context. Basically, it's a rhythmic effect that seems randomly inserted in between a bunch of melodic material.

As a start, unless you want the cellist to hate you you should avoid using alto clef. Furthermore, for the slurs that you have in the cello part, you need only mark the down bow once, and the player should understand that that means to keep going the same direction.

Compositionally, you really need to edit what you have and make sure that your chords all flow (this is probably my biggest complaint), and that your non-harmonic tones still make sense within the structure of the chords. Furthermore, check your voice leading in the four part section in the piano part; it's not great. Remember not to double the leading tone. Measure 22-23 don't sound good; it is an interesting idea, but I don't really think it worked in that context. Basically, it's a rhythmic effect that seems randomly inserted in between a bunch of melodic material.

Well, at our performing arts high school, everyone is expected to know tenor and treble clef. :P So that isn't a problem...it only goes up to an octave+half step above middle C, so it's really not that bad to play on a cello.

Is this better doubling in the beginning? :P

Well they'll know, and I didn't say it would be hard to play on the cello, but I bet most cellists would rather read in one of the main clefs; however, I have only played the cello a little bit, so I could be wrong. Anyway, it doesn't really matter, I guess.

As for the doubling, that wasn't really the issue except in a couple of spots. Most of the time your problem is that your voice leading is bad or that your chords don't flow.

I fixed the problem at meas 22-23 (hopefully) and added a new section. ^.^

can you do an mp3 ? did not download the plugin for a mus yet :)

Hey Zippy, you are a strings guy right ? Can I ask you:

I am working on a short melody and sounds great on grand piano, if I play A2 then play three E3's whilst keeping A2 down (A5) sounds very cool. Also If I move up to F3 & G3 and back whilst still playing A2 so A2+E3, E3, E3, A2+F3, F3, F3, etc

My question is can this soft effect be bowed ? as I think it would sound great on a cello.

Do you have some music for me to look at? Cause your post was kinda confusing so I don't know what notes you are talking about. :heh:

Facorrigan:

1) don't double post.
2) don't post random questions on other people's composition threads; those threads are to discuss their compositions, not yours. If you want to ask such a question, us a PM or use the Composers' General Chat.

Lol, it's ok...XD

*will be mad if this song isn't done in time for the school composition contest* I literally went from 6 measures at the beginning of the week, to almost 60. No, I couldn't get stuck in the beginning of the week when I would have TIME to fix it, I have to get stuck on this song now, 3 days before it has to be submitted. <_<

Facorrigan:

1) don't double post.
2) don't post random questions on other people's composition threads; those threads are to discuss their compositions, not yours. If you want to ask such a question, us a PM or use the Composers' General Chat.

Don't be boring. Try and lookup what the word forum means :) try wiki then have a gooooood long think.

I think I sense a fight coming on....:think:

Anyway, can I get comments about the last song please? xD

"Boring" has nothing to do with this, and neither does the definition of the word forum. This thread has a specific topic for a reason. It's called "zippy's compositions" for a reason (as opposed to "facorrigan's compositions"); you should stop being so selfish and try at least helping him; it's not that hard to download finale reader to listen to her composition.

zippy, I'll listen to the newest version a little later tonight.

yes silly of me sorry for that I should have done a sample, I know you are also busy with your study so it is not urgent. I have attached a pdf of the notes I played with a slow tempo and an mp3 from 14 onwards.

I'm a SHE! :P

But yes, you do want to get finale reader since most people here use finale for their work...reader is free BTW. I think I posted a link to it on this page or the page before...

I'm a SHE! :P

But yes, you do want to get finale reader since most people here use finale for their work...reader is free BTW. I think I posted a link to it on this page or the page before...

Oh, so sorry! XD

ANYWAY. If by some not-so-slim chance I can't finish movement 2, I'm going to enter movement 1 instead...*pokes attachment* I am just BARELY making that minimum time of 3 mins. :eek:

The problem with rhythm in measures 22-23 is still there. Like I said, it's an interesting idea, but as it is, the weird accents just make me feel like I'm having a seizure :P; I would suggest either trying to find some way to make it feel like less of an accident (not really sure how to do that, but something to think about), or change it completely. Furthermore, I reiterate that, in places where you have a leading tone chord (such as in m 27), it sounds bad if you double the leading tone (sometimes, if consistent octaves are being played, it's ok to double, but in your case you quadrupled the leading tone). I would suggest that you make that into a root position dominant chord.

Edit: also, in both of the pieces, I feel like voice leading is really a weak point. What do you know about traditional voice leading rules?

Well, I don't think they ever taught us about leading rules in school...just doubling. :P So I guess I don't know anything, lol.

How does doubling the leading tone sound bad though? It honestly doesn't sound bad to me. :\ Also, I see what you were saying about the accents...so they go bye bye. XD

In the leading tone (also known as the vii diminished) chord, it definitely does, which is why it was a nigh unbreakable commandmant to never double the leading tone in Baroque and Classical music. There are obviously exceptions, such as the one I just mentioned with consistent octaves, but as I said, you quadrupled it, which made it especially bad.

I think you should consider looking at a theory website and look into some basic voice leading; you don't always have to follow the rules, but I guaruntee checking some of the voice leading in your pieces would help them a LOT. You may not have time to do this before the contest, and that's probably OK, but just for future reference.

Hey guys, I just wanted to get some comments about this one before I burn it onto a CD to enter it into the contest on monday. :P

BTW, what theory site has info on that? I tried my usual source (musictheory.net) but found nothing...<_<

try searching for introduction to music theory at a public library or a school library. They should have some books on it if you're interested. Focus primary on voice leading from baroque, classical, and romantic. That should definitely get you off to a good start

Also, if your school has a music theory class, take it.

In measure 31, it makes more sense (in my mind) to have the note in the treble clef at the cadence (at the fermata) be a d# instead of an E to make it a V chord, and therefore a half cadence. That way it will pull into the modulation you have. Measure 41, you have the leading tone (the d) tripled; the chord progression here also doesn't make sense because you're going from the vii (which basically sounds dominant) to the V (which IS the dominant). I would suggest you take the bass note of the first chord down to the B (leave out the D in the left hand and it will solve your leading tone problem) to make it a V7 chord throughout that whole measure. The pedal tones in your piano part don't always make sense. There are plenty of other voice leading errors that make the piece sound a little sloppy, but seeing as you haven't learned any voice leading, hopefully it will be ok for this contest. I can't say I love the ending major chord following that minor iteration of the chord. I would suggest you either make it major in measure 83 or leave out the major one altogether.

My suggestion:

Stop writing this piece, and the one that adjoins it. You've been working on it far too long, and I am going to give you the honest truth: It is now becoming a waste of time.

You've more than gotten what you needed out of it. Enter this into the contest at your school and be done with it all. It'd be a good time to step back and study (as we've all suggested from the very start) some theory and research the even better source: The Music Scores (http://imslp.org/) of the Masters.

I highly suggest looking at the Mozart Piano Sonatas. Your piano writing is quite dreary and it needs a lot of work. Mozart is the perfect place to start to learn how to write for the piano. It is not very virtuosic, but it never needs to be. You never "write" a virtuosic piece, it just seems to become one, or else it'l shine through that you're trying too hard (and basically, fail). Another reason why Mozart is very good to study, is that his compositional material is spot on. Everyone can understand his forms and the flow just feels right in ever piece. You hear a theme and what that's all about, then it bridges into his second theme, coda themes then development and then rehipiculation. (Sonata form). To add to that, he has followable and recognizable melodies and his harmonies work perfectly within everything he does; not to mention, his writing of "scale-melodies" are some of the best you can find.

I hope you take from this a nice big piece of criticism, but not only that, an even bigger piece of you need to wake up and then I show you how to do it. One cannot learn if the faults are pointed out and new things are set to be in motion; only can he learn if they are shown how. That is our job as the community at Ichigo's. 1) Criticize 2) Help out.

NOTE: I noticed you were talking about music theory websites. As mentioned, you're not going to get better than a book. I suggest Walter Piston's "Harmony" and Ottman's series "Elementary Harmony: Theory and Practice." There's a second Ottman book, but don't get it. I think Elementary would be perfect for well, anyone, but it goes from basic things to very great principles throughout it all.

A theory website though? I hate musitheory.net; I just don't like the how it moves and I don't like it's exercises. I really do like, ironically, is another site that is similar to musictheory.net, but not as pretty. teoría: Music Theory Web (http://teoria.com/index.html). I use it actually for becoming more fluent in jazz theory (the OTHER way to write chords), but I am saying for you to stay away from that stuff until you're fairly solid in basic theory and that you have studied music (from it's ultimate source) and are able to write followable melodies and harmonies that work. That's kind of the ultimate goal which is tied with good part writing and leading tones, etc. etc. etc.

Good luck. We're always here standing by.

Mazeppa, no offense, but I really think you need to proofread your posts sometimes... Nevertheless, I agree with what you said (although I can't say I've ever studied Mozart that closely outside of my theory classes). I would also like to add that it always helps if you listen to the type of music you are trying to write every day and try to learn and understand the way the composers formulated the melodies and harmonies.

I'll add a bit to what deathraider said there...I don't think its how much you listen to a genre of music that you're trying to write but rather how detailed you are listening into it. Best way is to have the score in front of you as you listen and highlight the important points that you hear such as an interesting progression or rhythm. Even this will take some understanding of theory so you know what to listen for. I've found that many "wanna-be"'s would tell me that he/she have listened to all these songs with all sorts of complicated names and yet they can say very little about them other than it sounded cool. The fact of the matter is, if you can fully understand even 2 good pieces and make what made those pieces standout a part of your own "collection of tools" then you would have accomplished a big stride as a composer.

I myself does not do this for every piece I listen to and I am pretty much a wanna-be so I do say things to make myself look smarter occasionally. :sweat: But that's beside the point. Read books, study scores, online sources are great but there are limits as most expects you to know some basic theory already. Don't expect the member of Ichigo to correct your music and change progressions cause then it won't be something you've done yourself anymore.

PS: I think I've asked before too but can you post some midi?

Well, I showed the music to some of my other freinds (who are also composers) at school, and they said it was pretty good....:P So hopefully I get somewhere in this contest. XD

@ Mazeppa: I know my piano writing is bad right now, but I'm working on it. I guess its just going...slow. XD (hey, you gotta fail before you can succeed, lol.)

And considering I'm going to be bogged down by exams and juries, I won't really have time to write another piece until summer break. :cry: But I'm definatly going to study more theory, since whatever little amount they teach us at school isn't enough for me...<_<

edit: Here's the midis. The 2nd one is still incomplete though, so pardon the sudden ending. :P

Comparing this with the last I heard from you... I think you are improving.

@Mazeppa: I see what you are saying about these peices, and I kind of agree. Which is why I'm only making it 2 mvts long. Still, I just couldn't let the last movement sit to be doomed to a life of unfinishedness (yes, I just made that up. XD) so I finished it. :P

I just listened to your two movements and truth be told, I was expecting a little bit worse then what I heard after reading comments others were writing. The changes from one motif to the next sounded too abrupt for me. This was especially the case for the change into the major for the first movement and when you returned to the A section for your second movement.

I suggest try listening to some of Bach's chorales preludes. Your piece somehow brought a connection with it as I listened to it.

I see what you are saying about the 2nd movement, but how is the change to major in the 1st movement abrupt? I honestly don't think it is abrubt. :heh:

Anyway, I was reading up about secondary dominants, and I decided to...experiment around with some music to understand them better. :P Please check out the attached file and tell me if I did everything right...

The first line made sense, but I couldn't really make sense of the second line. Once again, your voice leading is definitely your weak point.

You're right, that second line kinda sucked. :heh: So I made a better one.

Measure 9 - A B Major chord is not the dominant of a C Major chord. What was your intention there?

Oh, I just turned that chord to major so the icky sound of a diminished chord wouldn't sound there. Diminished chords are (usually) not my friend. XD

...probably because you double the leading tone, such as in measure 4. XD

I didn't double the leading tone in measure 4...:think:

I would like to comment that your composing quality has come a long way since the last time I listened to something you wrote. Keep at it! :thumb:

I didn't double the leading tone in measure 4...:think:

You did, actually. The b (which comes in in the melody) is the leading tone.

I would like to comment that your composing quality has come a long way since the last time I listened to something you wrote. Keep at it! :thumb:

Thanks! :D That means sooooo much to me when I hear people say that. ^^

The harmony was fun and I didn't even really mind the progressions, but it's too sporadic. You've just got to calm that down. But, cool harmonies.

EDIT:

Okay, I feel stupid. Obviously it's only like that because it's a study. So, good job. I listened to the first movement of your other piece. I feel that the melody needs some reworking. It just kind of seems to move without purpose. However, the ending was nice. Also, I think it'd work better if the piano didn't mirror the cello(?) so much. Variety is the spice of life, and all that. Congrats, though.

Which one are you commenting on??? :P

Whoops. The latest version of his "experiment" and "1-9-09 Correct Play Time."

*throws ramune at you* I'M A SHE! XD

Well, this is awesome! That song I entered into the school contest (sonata in em mvt 1) ended up being a finalist. I don't know if I'll win or not, but if I do, my parents are going to hear every day about how bad I want a red fender aerodyne. XD

Man, I'm totally making a fool of myself in this thread! Yikes. You're a cellist? *High Five* Cellists rule this world.

Yes, us cellists rule the world. (and guitarists too, if my parents give in to letting me play guitar. XD)

Man, it REALLY needs to show that you're a girl underneath your screenname...

Yes, us cellists rule the world.

卐 GRAMMAR NAZI ATTACK: "Yes, we cellists rule the world." :)

And zippy is a girl. 0_o Wow, you learn something new everyday.

Happy now people? xD

edit: Holy shit ajamesu, how did you get a swastika to show up on your post? XD *just realized it now*

Ok, I know this one will seem totally random, but don't bash on me for that. The only purpose of this is for me to learn about modulation. XD So, just tell me if I did it right...:P

Well, my computer decided to randomly break and not let vista boot up at all, so I won't be posting anything new for a while...<_< THANKS MICROSHIT!

I would have modulated back to C major since, after all, that was your original key. And even though you were working on modulation, your rhythmic motifs and lines aren't followable. I would make a simpler approach to making melodies, Zippy, this has been an everlasting problem in which you need to tackle. If you cannot make a THEME then kiss composing good-bye. Your compositions have no patterns, or if you do, they're much to busy and don't make any "comfortably logical" sense.

I can post an example of what I mean if you need (I most likely will anyway).

Sorry to read about your computer!! Hopefulyl you'll be back in no time. Do you have/can you make mp3's or midis of your new work as well? I don't use finale anymore. :heh:

Yeah, I'm gonna call microshit this weekend to see if their chinese scientists can fix it. XD

I'm still without a computer, (using the school's macintrashes right now xD) so MP3 and MIDI will have to wait. :heh:

I'll wait eagerly!

To hell with microshit, I'm not waiting until next week to start music again...I'll just deal with my dad's crap laptop with a meager 3 GB of ram for a week. XD Dealing with finale running 100x slower compared to my computer sure as hell beats not doing music at all...

Anyway, I added more to regalia, comments please. :P

Errr... Is a Midi possible?

Btw, what did happen to your PC?

3GB is slow? I'm running on 1GB and it's fine as long as there's nothing more than Firefox in the background. And my computer was made from bargain bin parts 3 years ago (Though I am getting a new macbook one for college). And that solo cello is so high that the finale sound font is playing violin sounds, can the cello even go that high? If so, how high can it go beyond that?

3GB is slow? I'm running on 1GB and it's fine as long as there's nothing more than Firefox in the background.

Me too. Stop complaining, zippy!:bleh:

3GB is slow? I'm running on 1GB and it's fine as long as there's nothing more than Firefox in the background. And my computer was made from bargain bin parts 3 years ago (Though I am getting a new macbook one for college). And that solo cello is so high that the finale sound font is playing violin sounds, can the cello even go that high? If so, how high can it go beyond that?

I need my RAM and HD space for games and VST's. XD I doubt all my VST's would even work without the extra RAM...

Yes, a cello can go that high. Alot of other songs go this high, especially this one part towards the end of bach's toccata and fugue. If you think my little 3 measure solo is high, watch this youtube video of arpeggione by schubert. I've seriously NEVER have seen a song for cello that goes that high:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s35oiJbotxQ

@ nyu: my computer just decided to make vista not boot anymore. T_T

I have VST, too, you know...

Wow, I'm running on an old 512 MB and I'm fine. xD [/off-topic]

I'd like to start by mentioning a quote:



In general it desirable to ORCHESTRATE THE DYNAMICS. This means that, most of the time, the number of instruments playing will increase with the dynamics. It is also ALWAYS better to achieve proper orchestral balance by using the appropriate instrument in the appropriate register than by just using written dynamics. The practice, encouraged by some, of writing different dynamics for different instruments is not a good idea for a beginner; it requires a good deal of experience to be of any use. An orchestral player does not know what his neighbour sees in his part, so if one has mp and another has mf, they will normally try to match each other anyway.

(From: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49787 )

What I'm trying to tell you from this quote is that, well, one needs to think considerably about how dynamic markings are interpreted. In the beginning, you have violins in ppp and timpani in mp. Since you're orchestrating a crescendo, would you not want the timpani to also participate in the crescendo in order to achieve the effect?

Secondly, "most of the time, the number of instruments playing will increase with the dynamics." You have celli in direct unison with the viole, and yet decided to put a higher dynamic marking on both when the dynamics will increase as is than that of the violins and bassi. There are also a few spots throughout this excerpt that have multiple dynamic markings; think about why you put different dynamics for different instruments, and consider what is in the quote above. (e.g. consider the div. placed at meas. 7 for the violins.) Remember that the aim when orchestrating is balance.

---

For the piece itself, it is fine considering it is a small excerpt. The only comment I have for this is to look at meas. 11; the low end of the chord seems rather "empty" from the open spacing between the two notes.

I see what you're saying, so I (hopefully) fixed the problems. xD

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ME! XD

Happy Birthday!

Is it possible to export a MIDI with your mus. files? I hope I didn't skip a post that answered this question haha.

Oh sure, let me just get on my computer....oh, that's right! Those assholes at HP just sent back my computer more broken than it was before! <_< Gotta love shit that's made in china. XD

Well, I'm on vacation right now, but I managed to add alot to this. Comments please, I don't really know where to go next...:heh:

Doesn't your computer allow you to export midi's now!? CURSE YOUR COMPUTER!!!!

Midi or die.

...

Joke, lol...

Haha. I just got terminator visions haha

I'll be Bach.

The piece is interesting so far. Your chords in measure 12 don't quite make sense, though, so check on that.

cool xPP


FLICK OFF

Are these chords better? xD

To me, it sounds funny to switch from the minor version of the chord to the major, especially on an unaccented beat. Does that make sense? It just sounds really mushy.

I somewhat agree with Deathraider (although I have no reason to disagree for some reason). However, in my opinion, I think what is lacking is the resonance, harmony, and counterpoint to help it sound better. (If I have time, I'll post an example.)

To me, it sounds funny to switch from the minor version of the chord to the major, especially on an unaccented beat. Does that make sense? It just sounds really mushy.

...unaccented beat? What are those again? XD I forget...:heh:

Well, in 5/4 it's hard to say...it depends on how you intended the beat to be divided (for example, it could be divided into 2 beats then 3 beats, 3 beats then 2 beats, or 2 beats, 2 beats, then 1 beat. In all of these cases, beat 1 of each of the groups of beats is the accented one). However, in others, such as 4/4, the accented beats are 1 and 3, and anything else is unaccented. In 6/8 1 and 4 are accented and the rest are unaccented. Does that make sense?

Finale makes the violins stick out too much (end chord and the dynamics are 2 levels lower), but here's a start. Plus I'm very obsessed with using triplets to thicken the texture. :heh:

I KNOW! I swear, I could put violins on pppp, and they'd probably still stick out too much. XD

I like the idea of using triplets to make it sound better, so here's what I came up with. I didn't totally copy what you had though. XD

Well, this song sure took an interesting turn about an hour ago...comments please! :P

I like it. Keep it rolling.

I'd like to give comments on this piece (constructively) when there's more to look at.

I'm glad someone else likes it! :D I wish there was more to look at too, but all I have to use right now is my dad's laptop, so I don't get much time to work on it. T_T Which is why HP is gonna have to deal with a very angry person if they don't fix my comptuer this time....

M...I...D...I....yet..? Is your PC fixed? :)

Not yet, i'm supposed to get it back on the 19th...IT BETTER BE FIXED THIS TIME! xD

WARNING: LISTEN TO CRAPPY MIDI INSTRUMENT SOUNDS AT YOUR OWN PERIL. XD

I have always listened to your music in midi even when I used to open the finale files.

Days ago my vista did not want to boot. Did you try pressing F12 and clicking your hard drive? That was how I got in mines, lol.

I like how the piece start, it set a nice mood. Well done with that part and well done for keep improving with your music. Your music now sounds less "soulless" and has more "life", at least this one.

You gotta finish it so I can fully comment! :P

The orchestration is fun. The mood is good. I felt like (and this is what I always get criticized for) it was kind of a phantasmagoria of sound. It jumped from section to section without a bridge, and didn't sound like it was unified. Am I being clear? Probably not. It was like a bunch of parts of a song chopped up and put together at random.

lol people actually take things seriously...this is so funny
moderators these days Dx

The orchestration is fun. The mood is good. I felt like (and this is what I always get criticized for) it was kind of a phantasmagoria of sound. It jumped from section to section without a bridge, and didn't sound like it was unified. Am I being clear? Probably not. It was like a bunch of parts of a song chopped up and put together at random.

Really? I honestly don't feel it just jumps from place to place with no in between...:P What spot(s) in particular are you talking about?

*does happy dance* MY COMPUTER IS FIXED! :lol: Which means making music and playing yooyuball all day! XD

Hmm...

For some reason, I do not find the chord at meas. 17 appropriate; to me, it honestly seems that the only thing that is being done is modulations at a few spots, and that there is not much to keep the phrase moving. In some settings, this is appropriate; in my opinion, in a concert setting (meaning concert piece), I wouldn't find it too appropriate. This, I think, is kind of what Alfonso is saying, and I can note this in a few spots: meas. 17, 28 (this one (28) , just to my taste, is a bit too sudden concerning chord changes).

How I would describe this problem is this: you decided to resolve the notes using a sustained tonic chord too early. I've noticed this in many of your compositions, and I would suggest working on finding ways to extend phrases.

I didn't like the sustained tonic chord after looking at it again, so I tried something different...I know I didn't really change much, but my brain has officially asploded. XD So I'm gonna try other stuff later...

All I have to say is that, right now, you have a better start on the key change than you did before.

*throws cello at computer*

I'm done for today, I'm going to kill something if I attempt one more thing that doesen't work. :) As for the one in my last post, I didn't like it. So I attempted something else to see if it works.

I agree with Alfonso; you have some interesting fragmented ideas, but you don't fully develop any of them and it feels like you're just jumping from one fragment to the next. Try taking a theme and developing it and/or after modulating linger in that key for long enough to be able to tie it into the rest of the piece somehow.

I think the problem is that you cannot relax, zippy.

I think the problem is that you cannot relax, zippy.

What? How do you figure that? x_x

What? How do you figure that? x_x

Well, for one, you're always adding on or making some edits (that usually don't change much) and posting them every day or almost twice a day. Take your time with things and let the writing process occur naturally. Too often young composers just want to write, write, write and try to get SOMETHING down on paper (or rather, Finale). It seems as young composers, such as yourself, don't take the time to really write in each note and make sure it fits; just because you took the time today, doesn't mean it's going to be right tomorrow-- so, if you don't even take the time today, then it's GOING to be wrong tomorrow.

You see, just take a breather with your compositions and take in a melody and the sections of the piece. It's fun to write music and sometimes we get lost in writing it and our mind and spirit is in a high, but don't loose your consciousness and become ignorant.

Well, I guess you got me on that one when you put it that way. XD Although I do actually check things to make sure they work.

I don't want you to prove yourself to me, or anybody else, but I feel that your changes don't do anything. When I say to relax and take everything in, that means making changes that do something. Often in your last pieces you have said, "I made changes, etc. etc." I heard nothing, and there were still huge 'mistakes' in the music.

I know as people grow [as musicians] we are able to pick up more things and get 'better at composing.' I take this into consideration, so just take that sentence there as what you should remember. You're probably frustrated with my first paragraph, and I would expect you to be, but take it into heart as what stage you're at now and work at the stage of your musical ability for tomorrow.

I agree totally and completely with Mazeppa. I feel the exact same way, but I kind of wasn't sure how to say it.

EPIC WIN! I finally got something that makes sense! XD

EPIC WIN! I finally got something that makes sense! XD

Do you really want that chord in Measure 10? Also, in Measure 7, you cannot hear the melody at all; I would try to balance the parts (with dynamic markings) to bring out what we SHOULD be hearing.

Here's a rule of orchestration from myself 1) Always assume the instrumentalists are dumb, so to write very obviously "how loud/important" they are. :)

I think I have fixed those things now...:P

I really can't think of anything to do next to save my life...:heh:

Honestly, I think you should take a break from this for a while and work on something else; Mazeppa is right that you keep posting updates, but it doesn't feel like you are making very much progress. When I get to a point like this in a piece, I take a break and work on something else. Sometimes I don't ever finish the piece if I stop working on it, but it doesn't necessarily help to force myself to spend all my energy on a piece if it's just not working for me, no matter how much I may like it so far.

I guess I will take a little break, even if I was hoping to finish it by the end of the summer... here's something else for right now, but I warn you, it's kinda depressing. XD I would have added more to it, but my brain crashed. T_T

Finally figured out something that works after the beginning...:P

I'm not going to go into further detail other than in 6-28-09, you should try to prolong the tonic chord and expand the melody.

Like this? I know it's kinda short, but I wasn't really planning on making this song a big one anyway...:P

*screams that I have to get wisdom teeth pulled on friday* :kfreaked:

*screams that I have to get wisdom teeth pulled on friday* :kfreaked:

OH NO! GOOD LUCK!

The only I can comment is at your comment, so good luck!

I remember mines still! Beautiful experience! I got the four teeth pulled the same day without the general anesthesia. They pinched me 8 times with a needle in my mouth for make it sleepy and even with that I was still feeling things, lol.

Haha, I'm kind of a baby when it comes to getting dental work done that involves pain, so I'm getting the anesthesia. :heh: They said all 4 should take no more than 15 minutes...I was surprised that it doesen't take too long. Too bad that means more time of the day feeling like crap, but oh well. I'm using this as an excuse for my parents to take me out for Japanese food after my teeth are usable again. XD

Comments please. :P I'm actually starting to find something that works in regalia, and I came up with this new song that I think is badass. xD

In 7-13-09, I suggest looking back at the transitions from meas. 10 - 11, and meas. 15 - 16, since the flow seems to be cut off at those spots.

In regalia, I'll wait until you post more to see how you handle the major key change.

I started the key change, comments please. :P

AAAH GOTTA GET MY TEETH PULLED TOMORROW D= *screams and runs around in circles* @_@

At meas. 10, a little consistency is lost since you have violins on moving lines at the measures before and then only have the contrabassi on eighth note lines. (I hope it went well with the tooth pulling. >_<)

I see what you are saying about meas. 10, and I think I fixed it. :P I tried to add more to the actual song, but this painkillers they gave me make me too damn tired to work on it anymore. XD

Decided to switch some things around a bit...:think:

Could you post a midi? I got a new computer and can't install finale. I lost disk one!!! :(

Actually, you can. Just download the finale demo and enter your product code. :P

Actually, you can. Just download the finale demo and enter your product code. :PBut I have Finale 2007. Is the demo for that available? :(

But I have Finale 2007. Is the demo for that available? :(

Nowadays (after the Makemusic 2008 products), one has to use Finale Reader (http://www.finalemusic.com/Reader/) to view .mus files made after 2008 if one doesn't have any of the 2009 products. However, this only views .mus files; it does not let anyone edit .mus files (notes, playback settings, dynamics, etc.).

The demo HAS to be somewhere on the internet. Google it and see what you find. :P

So I have to tell you...you keep posting this one song over and over, expecting comments, but you are pretty stingy with commenting on other peoples' stuff, from what I have seen. Am I wrong?

Honestly, this piece just seems pretty sloppy, still. For example, in measure 7, the celli and violas are parallel basically except for one note, which is the F/E, and then they continue in unison. Trust me, even if that was intentional, for voice leading purposes it sounds very very sloppy. You REALLY need to study some voice leading principals, because it even though the rules are basically just guidelines, it really helps to know what sounds good consistently and why before you try being unconventional.

Furthermore, it feels completely pointless to go from major right back to minor at measure 12; it totally ruins the effect.

Lastly, you really need to study musical form and how melodies and themes work best within a piece; the very little bit of material you have is pretty boring, and completely underdeveloped. You should learn how to create a captivating melodic, harmonic, or rhythmic idea that you can draw out and develop into a piece of music.

I know I'm being really harsh, and I'm sorry, but it seems like you're not getting much of anywhere on your own right now. If you're serious about improving, the things I mentioned are the next step.

Oh no, I'm not stingy on commenting on other people's work, I just don't do it for some reason. :P

Doubling cellos and violas was intentional, but I never thought it sounded sloppy like you pointed out. :heh: I guess I'll look into the things you mentioned and fix the problems. And you aren't being harsh. You're just giving your honest opinion. :P

The doubling isn't sloppy. It's the 1 note where you randomly didn't that sounded sloppy.

I think that's because cellos were playing a low A, but the violas couldn't go that low...:think:

No. Did you look at the note I was talking about? You randomly have an E in the violas and an F in the Celli, but all the rest of that measure and the next 3 measures they are doubling each other. The octave at the beginning of the measure is fine.

*screams*

I am SO uninspired right now. I cannot think of ANYTHING to add to regalia, or even any ideas for some new stuff! I thought finding out about the halo anime yesterday would inspire me to write something epic, but no luck! XD How the hell am I supposed to come up with 3 pieces by next year for college auditions with uninspiration like this....X_X (I think I just made up a word, haha)

Play some piano :) Improvise :)

I would play piano...if I had piano skills. XD

Improvising is a good idea though, I'm gonna try that...

I would play piano...if I had piano skills. XD

Improvising is a good idea though, I'm gonna try that...

I'm horrible at the piano and I play, and love it :) Give it a try! :P

I remember attempting to play my arrangement of space junk galaxy on a piano a while ago. That was amusing. XD Hopefully I get beginning piano as my elective next year so I can get rid of my piano noobness. :P (i just made up a word again xD)

guh, I'd like to listen to these but I wouldn't dare ever install Finale on my machine. No MIDI? - you've probably been through this interrogation before...

warning: crappy midi instruments may make your brain explode. XD

WTF? There's a phaser-type effect on the cellos if you listen carefully...O_O It almost sounds like electric guitars playing it...xD

Did I go into d minor too early? :heh:

I would go over your score at this point and make sure you want the chords you wrote. At instances, you'll have semitone clashes (especially on the third in some cases).

Keep working. I thought you'd be further along by now. I haven't listened to this piece since you posted it almost a month ago.. remember when we said to work on it a while THEN post it? You just seem to write a measure then post it on here right away. It's hard to comment on a COMPOSITION when it's only 30 seconds long, and it hasn't stated anything.

Something to think about.

(How many times have we said that, in one way or another?)

I know, but I posted it because I wanted some second opinions on if I did the key change too early...:P

We are here to help you grow, not to help you compose.

I know that. :P But a second opinion or two never hurts....

But in your situations, it does.

I'm done arguing with you. You keep asking us to help you, and we've given you the best advice around:


TAKE YOUR TIME.

We're not going to compose this damned piece for you, zippy, but we will give our comments and suggestions on your piece. I'm getting to the point where I'm just going to ignore this thread, because we've tried to get this into your head all year long.

I'll ask you a question, have you ever completed a piece (where it actually finishes) without somebody elses opinion through the process of writing out the entire piece? Everyone else here has. You write music, then you revise it. You can NEVER try to make it perfect as it goes along-- it doesn't work that way. You can't tell if something is going to work unless you know where it goes; how are we supposed to know if it, "changed the key too early," if we don't even know what's going to happen?

Look, as you can see, I'm frustrated. All of us here are trying to help one-another out by giving them the advice that they need. I, for one, won't give you bullshit comments, and I know quite a few other members won't either. We're here for a reason and you already know what that is. But if you keep doing this, you're better off leaving.

Hope you finally understand, but if you don't. Well.. I don't know then-- Good luck.

Wasn't really getting anywhere with regalia, so I figured why not do something just for piano, seeing as how when I do piano stuff it actually gets somewhere. :P

I was playing battlefield bad company yesterday, and for some reason I decided to re-write the cut scene music. :P I was always annoyed that there was only a little bit of music in the beginning, so I figured why not try writing some...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgjOMIKxfRs

I've been working on this one for a while, tell me what you guys think. :) I know it's kinda short, but it is finished. Maybe I'll think of other stuff to add to it over the 3 day weekend. (yay labor day!)

The biggest thing was the range of the soprano. Yes, those high notes are in there range, but they usually aren't used very melodically.

Other than that, I actually really enjoyed that. What words are you planning to use for the choir?

Yeah, a friend of mine who's in choir was telling me how people would kill me if I made them sing that high. XD I don't think I'm going to add any lyrics, I like it better without them...is it bad to just have a choir sing notes instead of words?

well, they have to be singing some kind of syllable. like, "ah" "oh" or "oo"

Oh. I remember that the choir on the halo 3 soundtrack was just singing notes most of the time, so I wasn't really too sure. :heh: I doubt I could come up with lyrics anyway. xP

I think the way it works is that in an SATB + Piano setting there are generally words, whereas when the choir is accompanying an orchestra words are not necessary but appear very commonly. One Winged Angel from FF7 has and orchestral piece but Latin words were included for the choir. The same is true for Duel of Fates from Star Wars, and the Intro to Super Smash Brawl as is in many other pieces. I actually can't think of much music where the choir is wordless all the way through. There is a strange power in Latin, and many composers use it for epic music (but that's probably cause most people can't understand the words). That said, I don't think there's any inherent "badness" in having no words. However, if I had a piece written for choir and thought it would sound better without words, I would probably change it to some sort of homogeneous ensemble like a string orchestra or a flute ensemble.

I think it's fine to not have words in some cases (that should be obvious by "O Nata Lux"), but I don't think it would work for this piece. I think that your writing is far too much like piano writing for the voice parts; you need to remember that vocalists have a much harder time singing jumps that would be simple on any instrument.

Would it be weird for this piece if the lyrics were in Japanese? I don't know Latin, so I don't think it's a good idea to attempt putting lyrics in a language I don't speak. :heh:

No, you can use any language you want. Latin is just very common in choral music because of its simplicity and because of the fact that it was basically the sole language used in western choral music for 1100 years, and then even after the Renaissance period it remained one of the most common.

However, my comment about the fact that your voice parts are too instrumental still stand. You should try to keep leaps within the vocal lines to a minimum for now so that its singable. Obviously there are some exceptions to this rule--see "Domine Jesu" from Mozart's Requiem for an example--but until you are more experienced with choral writing and know who you are writing for, I think it's probably not a good idea to have your parts leaping all over the place.

Edit: oh, and you should learn about Baroque voice leading. :P (yes I know I've already said that)

I hate to sound stupid, but what exactly is voice leading? :heh:

I hate to sound stupid, but what exactly is voice leading? :heh:

Haven't you studied theory?

To stay on topic, Voice leading - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_leading)

Yeah, I took music theory last year. After looking at that article, I realized we learned that last year, but our teacher didn't refer to it as voice leading, which is probably what confused me. :P

Hmmm...I'm not so sure about the credibility of your teacher, then. Anyway, you should be more careful. There's definitely times when breaking the rules are OK, but it's kind of a matter of learning when it works and when it's just sloppy. Trust me, I still have problems with it in my composition class...

Would it be weird for this piece if the lyrics were in Japanese? I don't know Latin, so I don't think it's a good idea to attempt putting lyrics in a language I don't speak. :heh:

Here is sombody who should know something about Latin. If I can help I am at your disposal. :)

This is so annoying, I haven't been able to think of anything to write for almost 2 months! >_< How do you guys deal with long periods of non-inspiration? x_x

Look for inspiration. Take a piece as a model, study it as in depth as possible and find out everything you can about it. Then take one or 2 things from it that you want to emulate, (but not duplicate), and add your own spin.

Go for a short trip. To be in the same place trying to get something out can get your mind tired of it, making you less productive.

Oh, if only I were going to Japan now instead of next summer...that would sure as hell give me inspiration for a few songs. XD

Finally, I have more stuff! :heh: This is something I had to do for music tech, but it had a time limit of 2 minutes...

Could you make an mp3?

I'm using finale 2008.

Download Finale Reader 2009.

Well, finale doesn't allow saving a file as mp3...so here's a midi. :P

What version of Finale do you have? Because "Finale" (the denotation of the full version) does in fact allow saving as an mp3.

Should be where say: "Export to Audio File". Then Click: "Compressed MP3 file".

I think you can only save as an mp3 when you aren't using the Garritan VST, because WAV is the only option I'm seeing...:unsure:

That's true. However, you can easily convert to mp3 from WAV using itunes or several other free converters, which is what I do.

wow lots of people have composition assignments now :lol: Theme and Variation? Or maybe Rondo? Ahhh...so functional, brings me bad memories. Not saying ur music is bad, just brought back memories of the hours of writing SATB and chord analysis for me.

Comment about writing out your guitar part. I would suggest avoiding that. Guitarist kinda like to do their own thing. Now you can notate specific melodic lines your would like the guitarist to play, but to try and notate everything for the guitar is probably a waste of both of your times. Just give them the chords they need to play on and a little melodic line to play here and there.

Keep trying. :thumb:

Really? I wrote this for a music tech assignment, and all the guitar majors in my class I showed the part to said it was fine....

I still do not understand why you simply cannot write a piece within a key signature and in the same time signature too. You over-complicate things, and your writing is just awkward.

But I'm not telling you anything that I haven't said to you in the last year.

Mazeppa, this piece IS in the same key signature throughout the piece, and the same time signature...

I don't mean to be a bitch or anything, but could you tell me how exactly this piece is awkward to you? Because I can honestly say that I think this is better than alot of stuff I've already done, so I don't see how this piece is awkward. :\

What he was referring to awkward is the way you notated the piece (At least I understood it like that). For improve your writing just read many score and listen to the music at the same time to see how the composers wrote the music. There is also a book that I was interested that touch that subject. But is from a hand writing focus.

About the piece itself, yes, it is a lot better than the rest of stuffs you have done in the past. But you still need to keep growing and learning. I do see improvement in stuffs. But is not exactly digestible.

Mazeppa, this piece IS in the same key signature throughout the piece, and the same time signature...

Zippy, I don't know what to tell you man but you're wrong. Measure #3 is most definitely not enharmonic to the key of B minor. :\ Just because you set the key signature to a key doesn't mean whatever you write will also be in that key. And you never changed the time signature? What do you call the 1/4 in measure 5?

I know it isn't, but I really liked the way it sounded in F#. :P And the 1/4 was meant to be a pickup measure like in the beginning...

I don't mean to be a bitch or anything, but could you tell me how exactly this piece is awkward to you?

It sounds and feels awkward to me, because it doesn't flow.

Another reason is your part writing. I remember a while back I had told you how to write for the piano. The left hand, apart to "correct part-writing," sounds extremely mucky and the chords sound horrible. They're never in a god sounding position. Why don't you use the root in the bass? It'd sound much better.

There is no rhythmic unity or form in the piece. I don't understand why you have to end the harmonic chords half a beat before the end of the cadence of the melody, and in the second measure, the rhythms are variated again... And now to mention the time signatures: Not only do you have the awkwardly place 1/4 measures, but the random 5/4 and 6/4 measures jab into the flow of feeling 4/4.

Here's the point I am trying to make here zippy: The piece has no easily followable melody and harmony. Yes, it's true that it's good for the ear to be surprised, but the ear also cannot be left hanging without resolution. This is a common mistake with (not young, inexperienced composers) but composers who are stubborn and are not willing to write simply and want to prove themselves with overcomplicated "originality." It's a dumb thing to do. I cannot believe that I've spent a year telling you the same things over and over and over again. I'd really like to meet your composition teacher or at least hear the things he's told or taught you over the time of the class you're in.

I am not trying to be an ass here, zippy, I am only trying to help -- however -- I do get very flustered when you stand by your word of "the key and time signature are the same.." [paraphrase] when they clearly are not.

You're just digging yourself a bigger ditch each time you try to fix your problems instead of throwing them away and starting over with a fresh mind and ambition.

composers who are stubborn and are not willing to write simply and want to prove themselves with overcomplicated "originality."


Very nicely put.:yes: Zippy, simple don't mean you can't be original about it either so just try and stick to the KISS principle.:lol:

Yes, I think the main point here is that a composer's main tool for channeling their creativity into a logical piece is the setting of some definitive boundaries and constraints on your piece before you start so that you have a goal in mind with the piece; otherwise it doesn't accomplish anything and doesn't go anywhere. The best way to do this and still remain original is to take some sort of rules that you want to break, and create a system of how you want to break them (or make a whole new set of rules). Set certain constraints, and stick to those completely while writing your piece. You may find it hard at first, but you'll be surprised how much more logical your pieces will become.

However, I maintain from earlier posts of mine that the best way to know what rules you want to break is to know the rules in the first place, and know why those rules were created. Therefore, I would recommend some serious study into Music Theory and Formal Analysis.

If some said what form is "ABACA" could you tell them?
Its a very easy, easy, form to work with, and most all of the pieces I've written follow that form to some extent. Its always good to break out of the common rules and what not, but trust me, you'll get better results if you follow them for a good while. Go compare what I've posted on my thread now, to what I posted on my old thread. You'll see a difference (I hope xD).

What I think were all trying to say here is, when you break rules, know what rules your breaking, and be prepared to justify why you broke it. You have talent, you just have to put it down on paper properly.

ABA'CA''DA'''...ect is a rondo. Usually, the returning A's will be slightly modified.

This isn't done yet, but I'm just posting it to show some sort of proof I haven't been dead the past 2 weeks. XD

What your teacher have said about this?

I actually don't have a composition teacher...:heh:

Who is "assigning" these, then?

My music tech teacher...I got an A for the unrevised version. I think he just cared about our ability to use finale more than actual composing ability...XD

Stupid english paper...damn you for not allowing me time for posting here! :bleh:

Anyway, speaking of assignments, here's another one I turned in yesterday. It was set to a bunch of space pictures, but I forgot to save the video to my flash drive. :heh:

I was putting this one into finale today, and it made me feel badass. XD I know it's not more than 30 seconds right now, but I REALLY felt the need to share it!

I was putting this one into finale today, and it made me feel badass. XD I know it's not more than 30 seconds right now, but I REALLY felt the need to share it!

Comments/Suggestions:

1) Meas. 4 - change D# to D natural - the dominant 7th chord has a minor 7th, and will make it easier to resolve to the A minor chord thereafter.
2) Meas. 6 - why the G-A clash?
3) Meas. 13 seems to be the climactic point - it feels as though the climax ends quickly. Think: what direction are you trying to go with this piece? What are you trying to achieve?