I want to be a composer for video game music when I'm older, so I thought I'd give the whole composing thing a try. :heh: My first songs were...BAD. XD I have gotten alot better at composing since last year though, so comments are appreciated on any of my songs. :P

I can't name songs to save my life, so suggestions on that would be nice as well. :heh: Seriously. It's getting to the point where most titles are either the date I started the song are, or "something in (insert key signature and song number here)". :heh:

Ignore the picture below, its just so I don't forget how to notate for a drum set. >.<

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5257/percussionmi5.jpg

First 4 songs removed due to the fact that they were made when I was a noob, and only put together random crap and called it a song back then. XD

Okay, I've been working on the 2nd song more, (but its still not done) and it sounds a LOT better. =D Can someone critique a noob composer please? :kfreaked:

Also, can any guitarists tell me if those parts aren't playable? :heh: I don't play guitar yet, so I don't know whats playable or too hard and other things like that.

Don't quite like the articulations in the first song and the pause at the end of the first measure doesn't quite fit for me...That's all I got cause I'm noob as well xP

Second song kinda needs a better transition at measure 5? Maybe its just me :|

As far as difficulty goes...Copy and paste the guitar part onto a new file but make it a Guitar tab instead of regular sheet music. Makes it a bit easier to see the difficulty.

Midis would be great :O

I are noob as well xP

I know the transition kinda sucks, but I sat there forever staring at a blank screen, so I figured I'd get back to it later. :heh: I just can't think of anything! >=(

Consider that you have one viola and one cello: remember that those instruments can be overpowered easily (1 Flute can overpower 24 (something like that) Violins).

That's why I made sure the electric guitar and piano are pretty much playing quiet the whole time. :shifty: Are they still too loud? :heh:

edit: I added midis. For some reason they sound like absolute crap compared to the playback in printmusic. x_x

That's why I made sure the electric guitar and piano are pretty much playing quiet the whole time. :shifty: Are they still too loud? :heh:

edit: I added midis. For some reason they sound like absolute crap compared to the playback in printmusic. x_x

Eh, it's the first one I'm taling about: "zippy's suite."

MIDIs do not use the same soundfont as MIDI sounds; the Printmusic soundfont is the one that comes with Finale; the MIDI one is built into your computer (in most cases). If you want to make one with the Printmusic soundfont, you have to save it as a .mp3.

Oh. :heh: Got a little confused as to which one you were talking about.

Printmusic can save files as mp3's? I'll upload those instead.

Well, I couldn't find out how to make the mp3's, so if anyone could tell me how to make those on printmusic '07, it would be appreciated. :heh:

Also, I know its been a while, but I've been working on my songs a bit. Can someone please give their honest opinion about them? I haven't gotten alot of comments/critiques, so I really don't know what to add or fix. Being a noob composer really sucks. XD

1. Go to File.
2. Go to "Save as Audio File."

I'll see if I can get something to say about the songs later....

I started a new song yesterday, and I think its totally badass. XD (well, so far anyway. :heh:) The drums are kinda overpowering everything, so I need some tips on that, as they are still too loud even at P, but too quiet at PP. x_x

Sorry for double posting, but I finished my unnamed song! :heh: Also, I'm thinking of finding a way of merging this song with one of the other two, but I need some help on that. If anyone has advice for me on this one, thanks! :lol:

I'm not really sure about the fusion of the electric guitar with classical instruments. Where does this go? It seems like they just don't fit. The drum set part also doesn't fit with the slow themes. there's too much cymbals. The cymbal crash should only be used in moments of tension or build up. (and sparingly at that too). The bass drum should be used to keep the beat but not written with so many notes, lest it makes your beat sound like a heavy rock beat.
Also, there doesn't seem to be much of a unifying theme in your pieces (although Suite 2 sounds slightly coherent). But the intro in Suite 2 is so robust and the you switch into a slow melancholy tune. The fermatas terminate too suddenly and the ideas afterwards doesn't connect. It just starts a different tune.
It kinda sounds like a video game soundtrack where the piece just stops in a random place because you opened a door or found a treasure chest. And then it goes back to the theme from earlier.

Agreed, the drum set part needs some work. I find it weird that most of the time, your accents were on beats 1 and 3. I think it would be more effective if you, for example at measures 12 and 23, placed the snare hit on beats 2 and 4 instead. Also I'm confused what the drum set is doing in measure 22. It makes it seem like a fast section is coming up next, but it isn't. Maybe you were going for the "not fulfilling the listeners expectations" type of thing, but it didn't exactly work in my opinion.

The ending was not to my liking either. It seemed to end way to abruptly. Maybe adding a few more chord changes to raise the tension and make the resolution all the more satisfying? This can be said for most of the piece actually: each section seemed to end to soon. There were times when I was really enjoying what was happening and then it ended.
Just keep working on it, you'll get it! :D

It sounds like it ends too soon because I'm still working on it. :heh: I changed some of the drum accents to 2 and 4, as I definatly see what you meant! Hopefully I'll get the hang of this whole composing thing before school next year. :D

I really don't know what to do at measure 22, is this any better? :heh:

Maybe it's just a personal thing, but I don't think the drum set works with the slow feeling, especially where it says "sadness" in the score. a slow sad theme generally has no beat in the background. Percussion is used only to create tension, such as a suspended cymbal roll during a crescendo or a timpani roll during a decrescendo.

And again I say that I'm not sure where this fusion of classical strings and and electric strings comes from, because it takes some pure genius (or luck) to get the two types of instruments to go together.

I can see where you're coming from when you say rock+classical usually equals weird, but this is the kind of music I'd like to write when I'm (eventually) a video game composer, so I guess I still haven't gotten the hang of it yet if it still sounds weird. :heh:

The only good rock-classical fusion in video games I can think of off the top of my head is the Halo theme. Though in that style you would need to set the strings on either the strings sound or the synth strings sound (never the solo tracks, i.e. viola, cello, etc.) unless you have a solo passage, in which case you need to crank the volume up on that one track.

And generally rock instruments do not sound good at soft slow passages, so you should only use the classical instruments when "sadness" and other soft passages come up. Because rock is seen as rebellious and uplifting, not sad and definitely not soft.

I love mixing classical and rock instruments and see nothing wrong with it! I even think a appropriate drum set part will make a good sad/calm melody even more sad/calm. I feel the trick is to play the first or the first few phrases without the drums and then add them later. For example: I would take the drums out completely in 18-22 (which solves
your measure 22 problem as well!) and put them back in at 23.

I also feel the bass drum being used as the "time keeper" is a little too heavy for the Sadness part. Instead I'd use the hi-hat in eighths, snare on 2 and 4, and bass as the cliched "heartbeat" feel beneath on 1, the and of 2, and 3. I'm sorry if I seem way too demanding or confusing!
All of this of course is just my opinions/feelings about how this should go. This, in no way, shape, or form, means that I'm right (especially because I'm not a drum set expert :heh:). Ultimately, it will you, the composer, that will be the final decision on how this is supposed to sound. I'm more than happy to help though! :D Oh, and much better this time by the way! :)

Umm...what do you mean by hi-hat and snare? xD I've just been using the 'add a drum beat' feature and editing it, because I'm a fish in a barrel when it comes to drum music notation. xD

From what I could tell by the sound the hi-hat is the G above the staff (treble by the way), snare is the C in the middle of the staff, and the bass is the bottom line E. Just play around to figure out what sounds you want where I suppose.

Well, I changed a few things, so I thought I'd re-upload it. I'm pretty sure I added to one of the first two songs, so I'm re-uploading those as well:

Sorry for double posting, but I finally finished this song! Now all I need is a name for it. :heh: Oh, and for the mp3, if you're listening to it on iTunes, it sounds better if you put the equilizer preset to classical. :P For some reason, it won't let me upload the song, so here it is:

http://uploadingit.com/files/658667_dr6yn/something.zip

Got a new song, but its a work in progress. :heh:

Ok, so I saw that movie invisible children yesterday, and...its really horrible that those poor kids walk miles for a safe place to stay for the night. :cry: Anyway, I made a song about it, so critique away! :heh:

Gathering from your description of the movie, I believe writing the piece in minor rather than Major would be more appropriate and fitting to the dark setting.

Maybe its just me, but your music sounds like its a bunch of random idea's stuck together, with random articulation marks here and there x_x

I've never been a fan of atonal, experimental, minimalist, or the like. If that's what you're going for then sorry for my lack of critique.@_@

It is, the first part is in d minor, then switches to c minor. The part in c major is supposed to represent a happy part of their lives, but I'll think of a name for it later. :heh: Oh, and I added to it:

Maybe its just me, but your music sounds like its a bunch of random idea's stuck together, with random articulation marks here and there x_x

I've never been a fan of atonal, experimental, minimalist, or the like. If that's what you're going for then sorry for my lack of critique.@_@

I agree that the first 2 songs do, I really had no idea how to compose music when I first started. :heh: I thought all you had to do was write whatever came to mind and hope it worked together. xD Now, I think my songs actually make sense and aren't a bunch of random ideas slopped together.

perhaps not, but your pieces are dominated by scalar melodies, which are some of the most basic and most boring melodies (unless used in certain contexts)

I don't think they're boring, but I do agree I overuse scales. xD

Heya Zippy,

Some nice work there :) May I make afew suggestions though?
It's a really great piece (the latest one) but a bit more chordal movement in the base part might thicken the texture out a little.
Also, when the piece moves becomes presto (love the intro here BTW ;)) Some hammered chords might be nice as they could add some atmosphere and movement instead of the minims you have ATM, but, hey it's your piece and it sound great at the minute too so if you don't agree then fair enough :heh:


hope this helps ^.^

xxx

Thanks. :D I know I totally sound like a noob, but what do you mean by chordal movement? :heh: I don't take music theory until next year, so I still don't know these things! XD

Thanks. :D I know I totally sound like a noob, but what do you mean by chordal movement? :heh: I don't take music theory until next year, so I still don't know these things! XD

Oh, that's OK, you don't sound noobish at all, I'm just bad at explaining things XD

I mean that you should base your base line around chords of the triad that of the note you have in the melody line, or modes of the key that still include the note, or the note as a 7/9/4 if you're going for a dissonant or jazzy feel (although that could detract from the melody) to get a thicker texture , but this won't make much sense without examples if you haven't done much theory (and there's so much more to it than this =S), so hang fire 'till tomorow and I'll post some examples for you, 'kay? :) I've only done up to grade 5 RABSM myself, so I'm not that good with music theory :heh: Although I do love theory.
Don't worry, I'll post examples/explanations on this thread tomorrow =D

Examples would be good, because I am sitting here saying 'WTF O_O;' at your last post. xD

I think what she means is to not have your bass line playing the same the melody is playing. And to use the root note of the chord, or if you are going for a more "jazz" style to use another note apart of the root like you playing the chord of C Major and to have as the bass the note A or D. This will give a different effect to the chord.

Here is an example of a melody playing with the chords and their roots on the bass:

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r153/Nyu001/Example01.jpg


This other use the sevenths chords:

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r153/Nyu001/Example02.jpg

If she mean another thing then I have no idea!

That was kinda confusing. xD Guess I'm stuck waiting for theory next year, if I even get it. X_X (which I BETTER get! I need music tech, but you can't take it without completing theory first! :bleh:)

I think what she means is to not have your bass line playing the same the melody is playing. And to use the root note of the chord, or if you are going for a more "jazz" style to use another note apart of the root like you playing the chord of C Major and to have as the bass the note A or D. This will give a different effect to the chord.



That's what I mean, my post made sense to me :D
I'm terrible at wording things. :heh:
I make no sense from time to time, I should really read things over before posting XD

That was kinda confusing. xD Guess I'm stuck waiting for theory next year, if I even get it. X_X (which I BETTER get! I need music tech, but you can't take it without completing theory first! :bleh:)

You can try and buy a theory book for learn and understand the basic better or look on the internet there are various sites that can help you to learn about the basic of theory. www.teoria.com is one.

Look at the first example the first staff is just playing the melodic lines and the second staff is playing first the chord then the bass which is the root note of each chord I put there(Root note is the main note of the chord which give it name). The triad of C major is composed of the notes C, E and G. C is the root, E is the third(which is what determine if is a major or minor chord) and G is the fifth.

The second example is using seventh chords this like a triad but with the the seventh grade. Look the bass is not playing any note the chord is playing but actually the bass is being the root of the chords there. The first chord in measure no.1 is A7 which have the chord inversed. So, by being the Root played apart of the chord it may look like C major but if you put the 'A' together with the chord it will make the chord A7.

I guess the second explanation you will find it a bit confuse due the poor way I explain it but stay learning with the first one first. Then jump to the seventh chords. As I said you can look on the internet, there you can find various sites with basic music theory that explain all this much better. And take it slow it may look confuse first but after a while you will see is quite simple to understand.

B)

There's only two parts that are in most of this song: the bass one and the treble one. There's nothing in-between the two parts to give the piece movement (harmonies).

I've been playing battlefield bad company all week, so I haven't really been composing. XD But I edited one of my songs a little. So I guess that's a start. :bleh:

It's too scalar, and there is no melody that goes anywhere. If I were you, I would work on making better transitions between sections.

I haven't had much time lately to work on my compositions, and it's probably going to stay that way with me leaving on vacation in 2 weeks, but I found some time today. :heh: I noticed my melodies are more like scale exercises or something, but I can't think of anything that can keep the same feeling I want for that part of the song. :bleh:

The aforementioned problems are still very much there. Your parts don't really go anywhere, your voice leading is strange, your key changes and accidentals don't make sense, and your chord progressions don't go anywhere. Sorry, I know I'm being harsh.

It's ok, you're not being harsh. :heh: I realize I'm still a noob and don't really know what you guys are trying to tell me. xD

What about now? I got rid of scales in a few spots:

Ok, here's a new one. It's supposed to sound irish, but...:heh: Maybe when I'm in ireland next week I'll get a CD so I have some example songs. XD Someone PLEASE help, if you take a look at my progress so far, you will agree that I certainly need advice on this one! xD

OK, I like the second measure a lot, and I think if you really planned it out, you could do something really cool with it. The rhythm and feel of it work pretty well for what you were trying to accomplish. What I would suggest from here on out is that for now you have a driving rhythm such as the one I created in the edit I made of your version. I would also probably suggest you make this into a string quartet instead of string trio to give you more parts (I would suggest that what you have would be the Violin II instead of I). Furthermore you should know that you need to keep a driving, consistent melody line for your audience to latch onto, and echo it in the other parts in different ways.

In the edit I made I only did the first two measures (the ones after that seemed to get a little random and didn't have much substance), but I added some accents and changed some notes. See what you think.

I would like to see the edit you made, except....there's no file in your post. xD

I added to it, and I don't think it sounds too bad this time. :shifty: There's no way I'm going to ireland and not being able to add to this song, I'll take my mom's laptop with me on vacation even if she says no. XD

Woops! Here you go! Don't take this too seriously, I'm just trying to give you an example of where you could take it.

Is there a way you can save it as a finale '07 file? I don't have the money to upgrade to printmusic '08 yet. :P

You can always download Notepad '08 for free to check it out. But anyways, what deathraider did was basically made everything more rhymthic/harmonic - everything playing sharp stacotto'd notes and keeping the bass and viola relatively static notewise to provide more of an ostinato effect. It actually ends up sounding more like Funk than Irish, but I think the overall idea is in the right direction. Irish/celtic/folkish music often tend to have a droning sort of harmony with one or two melodic lines (which tend to be pretty similar, with one passing the melody to the other or imitating it) - though I certainly don't claim to be an expert on it. But anyways, I rather enjoy the basic idea - those little two-note hits which can easily cross overwith other parts to form complex interlocked parts. There's a lot potential for this piece to expand, so keep at it.

I was going specifically for a riverdance sort of feel :P

Back from vacation! My mom let me bring her laptop, so I started a few new things. One song was starting to get bad though, so I stopped while I was ahead. XD I also edited some other songs, so hopefully those turn out good. :heh:

Woops! Here you go! Don't take this too seriously, I'm just trying to give you an example of where you could take it.


O_O

That made my head explode, lol. It sounded weird because every part was staccato. x_x

don't go away- In the beginning, I suggest adding more texture to the beginning piano part. There's something that I didn't like about the BbMaj7 and EbMaj7 chords in meas. 15...

What exactly do you mean by more texture? :heh:

It's pretty much what I said earlier:

There's only two parts that are in most of this song: the bass one and the treble one. There's nothing in-between the two parts to give the piece movement (harmonies).

I see that you tried to do that with the guitars, but it didn't really help very much. Basically, the simplest way I can put this is to avoid just putting one note per piano staff.

I've attached an example of what I might do (meas. 5-8). I'm more used to orchestral writing than piano, so I can't really say that this is done well. :heh: Note that on the fourth measure that I changed it to B-flat, but that's just my personal preference.

I see what you're trying to say now. :heh: I'll try to implement that in those measures. I feel like a noob asking this, but how do you input those red notes? xD

On the bottom-left side of the screen, there are the numbers "1," "2," "3," and "4." You are able to use four kinds of textures per staff. By default, it is assigned to "1;" switch for "2" for red, and so on.

Thanks. That's probably going to make alot of songs better. XD

Anyway, I heard there was going to be a contest where you had to make a song for a short clip, so I decided to make a song for the halo 3 legendary ending. I think it's fine so far, but I need help on syncing the music to what they say in the cutscene because I was watching the youtube video of the ending and my song at the same time, and it sounded weird when the characters (don't want to give spoilers) were talking a second or two after a measure started. >_< I don't really know if I should change the time signature or make the tempo faster, so I REALLY need help on this. :heh:

If anyone wants to see the youtube video I used so they can see what I'm talking about, the link is in the spoiler box. Don't click if you haven't beaten halo 3 yet. XD


I'M SERIOUS! XD You will get a HUGE spoiler if you haven't beaten halo yet!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0-iKwRbzF4


If you want to listen to my song with the video, play the video, then stop after she says "can you hear me?". Play the first measure in finale, and press the play button on the video when the music in finale starts. You might want to play the video with no sound first, since I haven't adjusted the song yet to where you can hear what they are saying in the cutscene.

I finally finished my song, after working on it practically all day. XD I made a video of it, with the halo 3 ending to go along with it, so DON'T watch the video if you haven't beat halo 3 yet. :heh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyox7q296vo

BTW, if you want better quality audio for any youtube video, add &fmt=18 to the end of the url. :P

The purpose of the music is to recreate the scenes, atmospheres or to be a music video? It looks like a music video. I liked the intro.

I would think the purpose of my song is to recreate the scene, seeing as all I did was write my song so it fit with the ending and had the same feeling as the original song. :heh:

Thanks. =D Isn't the intro cool? I felt totally badass when I listened to the beginning part of the video for the first time. XD I noticed that I finally made a good song, so maybe I should make all of my songs to fit with video game cutscenes. :shifty:

I got music theory in school, so hopefully my songs actually make some musical sense in the near future. XD I want to write some huge epic fanfare with a huge ass orchestra+choir and electric guitars to go with the part in mass effect where (don't click the spoiler if you haven't beat mass effect yet!)the reapers come in and start firing at the citadel. If you don't remember, it's the scene where a huge alliance ship gets sheared in half like a piece of paper. O_O I just don't have the expirience for that yet, lol. The last piece I tried to make for an orchestra ended up being binned after it got so bad. XD

I finally finished my song, after working on it practically all day. XD I made a video of it, with the halo 3 ending to go along with it, so DON'T watch the video if you haven't beat halo 3 yet. :heh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyox7q296vo

BTW, if you want better quality audio for any youtube video, add &fmt=18 to the end of the url. :P

The SoftSynth sounds don't help at all. :heh: But I'll try my best to give suggestions:

At :45, I heard a dissonance that didn't sound quite right, in my opinion. The main issue that I see with this piece is that there is a lack of transitions... but I don't know if transitions would be appropriate in this case. I see improvement. :)




I got music theory in school, so hopefully my songs actually make some musical sense in the near future. XD I want to write some huge epic fanfare with a huge ass orchestra+choir and electric guitars to go with the part in mass effect where (don't click the spoiler if you haven't beat mass effect yet!)the reapers come in and start firing at the citadel. If you don't remember, it's the scene where a huge alliance ship gets sheared in half like a piece of paper. O_O I just don't have the expirience for that yet, lol. The last piece I tried to make for an orchestra ended up being binned after it got so bad. XD

Again, more harmonies are needed in that piano intro.

I got music theory in school, so hopefully my songs actually make some musical sense in the near future. XD I want to write some huge epic fanfare with a huge ass orchestra+choir and electric guitars to go with the part in mass effect where (don't click the spoiler if you haven't beat mass effect yet!)the reapers come in and start firing at the citadel. If you don't remember, it's the scene where a huge alliance ship gets sheared in half like a piece of paper. O_O I just don't have the expirience for that yet, lol. The last piece I tried to make for an orchestra ended up being binned after it got so bad. XD

The piano part needs more harmony. The melody sounds pretty random. I can't really comment on those comments until I have some kind of finished product. Sorry.

Ok, I totally took 'don't go away' in a different direction. :P I think it's hella better than what I had before with just the boring piano part. XD

Just a thought, but I don't think guitars can do trills and quick repeated notes like in measures 4 and 8. The articulation in measure 8 is actually a percussion articulation (the drum roll symbol). I think it does sound better than before but, quoting PorscheGTIII, "The piano part needs more harmony." Pianos are the ultimate in harmony making, allowing 3 to 6 notes to be played at once. On the other hand, the cello (and other string instruments) can only play 2 (maybe 3) notes at once.

Just a thought, but I don't think guitars can do trills and quick repeated notes like in measures 4 and 8. The articulation in measure 8 is actually a percussion articulation (the drum roll symbol). I think it does sound better than before but, quoting PorscheGTIII, "The piano part needs more harmony." Pianos are the ultimate in harmony making, allowing 3 to 6 notes to be played at once. On the other hand, the cello (and other string instruments) can only play 2 (maybe 3) notes at once.

I'm pretty sure guitars can do those notes as long as the guitarist can strum fast enough. XD I thought that thing in measure 8 was a tremelo symbol.....:heh: I feel like a noob now, lol. The piano part isn't that great, I know, but I'm working on it. ^.^

I see what you are saying about the cello chords, but they are definatly playable. I actually tried them out on my cello, it's just that some of them are just kinda hard to play if the person playing them isn't advanced enough. :shifty:

The articulation in measure 8 is actually a percussion articulation (the drum roll symbol).

Actually, that symbol is also used to mark string tremoli, timpani rolls, flute fluttertonguing, etc.

MORE HARMONIES. MORE MOVEMENT. Especially in the first few measures.

I didn't really like the context on how the cello glissando was used (meas. 5), and the melody is still random throughout the whole excerpt.

Actually, that symbol is also used to mark string tremoli, timpani rolls, flute fluttertonguing, etc.

MORE HARMONIES. MORE MOVEMENT. Especially in the first few measures.

I didn't really like the context on how the cello glissando was used (meas. 5), and the melody is still random throughout the whole excerpt.

All agreed.

I didn't really like the context on how the cello glissando was used (meas. 5), and the melody is still random throughout the whole excerpt.

Neither did I, so I removed it. :heh: I don't know why I did that, I guess it just sounded better in my head. XD I still can't seem to figure out a good melody part, I wonder if I should put this piece off until I learn more stuff in music theory......

Anyway, I'm working on an arrangement of 'Through the Fire and Flames' by dragonforce. I only have the intro and a few seconds after that done, but tell me what you guys think anyway. :P

Before anyone says the electric guitar sounds weird playing an acoustic part, I already asked my freind who plays guitar and he said it is possible for an electric guitar to sound like an acoustic one. XD

The guitar, at that volume, is too loud for in order for one to hear the solo strings. As a personal preference, if I wanted chords like you are using in the strings, I would just get a piano. :/

it looks more like a transcription. You are changing the instruments but all looks alike the original. I agree with clarinestist about the guitar. I would have choice a keyboard or another guitar for the chords too.

I toned down the guitar after my ears were about to explode, lol. XD I didn't really want to add another guitar since just one electric guitar can overpower every instrument I already have in the arrangement.....and a piano would probably just get overpowered by everyone else, so it's kind of a waste to add it. :heh:

edit: I feel like a noob for asking this, but...isn't a transcription and an arrangement the same thing? XD

Transcription basically is to notate a piece or song already existent, where you will copy all as it sound. In other words a notated copy of a piece or song. This can be by ear or just copying it from another source. And without change the original contest. I mean with this not alterations of the melody, harmony, rhythm, etc.

Otherwise, an arrange involve to create new materials adapted to an already existent piece or song. Such as an introduction, transitions, modulations, ending, etc. Or to rework the existent harmony for create a new one and re-compose parts. Like adding a counterpoint to an existent melody from a piece/song, to use a different kind of background for the melody, changes of the rhythmic structure, moods, key signature, etc.

However there are things that are identical in arranging and transcribing. Such as giving the part of an instrument to another instrument. Like giving the melody of a violin to a cello. Here the instrument is changing, but the notes will be the same. In this case this would be considered more a transcription than arranging.

My computer keeps being retarded, so I'm uploading my files in case if it crashes or something. O_O I have a new song on there (mythic) and I added to my halo song and the TTFAF transcription, so tell me what you guys think. :lol:

I didn't really want to add another guitar since just one electric guitar can overpower every instrument I already have in the arrangement.....and a piano would probably just get overpowered by everyone else, so it's kind of a waste to add it. :heh:

Actually, a piano can overpower 1 viola and 1 cello. (It can actually be heard clearly over a whole section of strings) If you need more volume you could always write it for an electronic keyboard. It can use amps just like an electronic guitar can.

True, but I like the sound of a real acoustic piano better. xD Electric pianos have this weird sound that really annoys me. O_O

This transcription is SO badass right now! I just finished the intro and started on the part after that, so don't be all like "dood, its ret4rded dat only cello is pl4ying at m5asure 34" xD

I started this new song. It's supposed to be the ending credits for...something. :heh: It was very amusing, because I came up with this song in the middle of music theory when our teacher was playing a bunch of d flat chords on the piano. I had to practically not pay attention at all the next class to keep this song running through my head since I didn't feel like writing it down on my music notebook. XD

In my opinion, the resonance was fine until meas. 6. Maybe a few stationary notes/pedal tones would be a good idea to put in? Same with meas. 11; something in the right hand... To name a few more that could use these, meas. 15-17.

In meas. 12, in my opinion, the bass 16th note harmony kind of ended abruptly. From meas. 13 to 14, try to add a little more movement to the transition.

You may also want to fix the transitions to the key changes...

I was thinking the same thing about adding a pedal, but it sounded really weird, so I did away with that idea. :heh:

Same things as I mentioned in the above post; also, the key change from meas. 19-20 could be more smoother/flowing.

What exactly do you mean by smoother/flowing? :heh: I don't think it's that much of a sudden change.....xD

(If I recall correctly)... it seems as though you're just stacking key changes here and there, and it doesn't flow well.

dood, its ret4rded dat only cello is pl4ying at m5asure 34

lol jk

cant wait for it to be done :)

dood, its ret4rded dat only cello is pl4ying at m5asure 34

lol jk

cant wait for it to be done :)

Lol, I was waiting for someone to say that. XD It might not get done till winter break....:cry: I haven't had much time lately to arrange it...

Anyway, is that what you were talking about clarinetist? :P (check attachment) I thought the key change at measure 5 was dumb so I removed it. xD

Yes, and in your newer version (note that I only looked at it briefly)...

On the key change at meas. 18, I suggest switching it to D Major rather than F Major (I'm assuming F Major from looking at the arpeggios)... plus, like I mentioned before, it wouldn't hurt to put a few sustained notes here and there (I think the reason why a pedal would sound weird is because of the reverb that is in the file)...

Like this?

(The marcato accents may be a bit too much, in my opinion.)

I would try messing with the two chords before the eighth note part to make the key change better, for example:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/Bbclarinetist/Comment1.png

... It's just my opinion; you don't have to follow with that. (Although, I would probably revise that right hand on this suggestion, but this is only looking off of it for about a minute. xD)

I kept some of the accents, (i realized they were a bit too much in some spots xD) because it makes that part much more epic. XD But the chords do make the key change better, so thanks for that suggestion. :lol:

It still seems as though you're "stacking" up ideas without transitioning them well. In order to understand how I came up with those chords that I suggested, you should probably analyze what the chords are and how I used every note... There are a lot of spots that you should fix the transitions...

It still seems as though you're "stacking" up ideas without transitioning them well. In order to understand how I came up with those chords that I suggested, you should probably analyze what the chords are and how I used every note... There are a lot of spots that you should fix the transitions...

Really? xD I thought I fixed the problem of me just throwing random ideas together. :bleh: (like in my first song xD)

BTW, Here's the updated version of my TTFAF arrangement. I know guitar and violin have the same parts, I just didn't get around to figuring out the guitar part yet since I gave it to violin. xD I've been listening to the original song and the vitamin string quartet version to help me, but someone let me know if chords are off or something, since it's hard to hear each guitar note over the drums in the original mp3. :heh:

I know double posting is bad, but I finally got farther on my TTFAF arrangement! =D Please tell me if the cello part (originally vocals in original mp3) is right, cause some parts sound weird, but it might just be me. :heh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-92X6ItM6Y&fmt=18

Also, in that video above, at 0:59-1:04, does anyone know what notes or intervals (compared to the lead vocals) the backup vocals are? I tried to guess what they were (as you can tell in my arrangement) but they sound SOOOOOOOOOOO wrong it isn't even funny. XD (I gave these to violin BTW)

The intervals sound like fourths and fifths. What I would try to do is listen to the melody and pay attention to ONLY the harmony the second time around. Note that in this case, the harmony is higher-pitched than the melody.

That's what I thought, but when I tried both, they sounded REALLY wrong. xD

Ok, so here's a new arrangement I started. Why would I pick this song you ask? Well, it's part of the most badass senior prank EVER! XD I'm planning on rick rolling my teacher at the last concert next year! xD Lucky for me, we have 2 teachers, and I don't think he would ruin the surprise. :P I have no idea how I'm going to pull this off, but I guess I should worry about that after the music is arranged. xD If I manage to pull this off though...this video will probably get the front page of youtube in a day. :rukia:

Anyway, I guess my first problem is figuring out the key signature. I thought it was Db major or Ab major, but I can't really tell. :heh: If anyone knows the key, please tell me and uhh...I'll give you a cookie. :D

Based on how the bass is moving, I would assume Bb Minor. However, the melody seems to hit Db Major. But since the key signatures are notated the same way, it wouldn't matter whether it be Db Major or Bb Minor. If this piece is to be performed (with actual acoustic violins, violas, celli, etc.), there are a few problems:

1. Too much octave doubling within the three instruments. It adds a chorus-like effect, but it won't be effective if it is used so often.
2. I would try taking the electric bass out and putting a variation[/i] of it into the strings. Just a personal preference...
3. Violin I is very, very high in some of the parts. It will most likely sound piercing and screeching.
4. The 3-notes in the Violin I; for example, meas. 8, beat 4.5; should probably be spread around [b]all of the strings; otherwise, there's not really much a point to putting it in.
5. Meas. 20 and afterward: note your divisi!
6. Meas. 21; first chord: if you are aiming for a "stereo" effect, like my teacher calls it, I would suggest dividing the Violin notes within all of the Violins (basically, the Violin I need not have all of the higher notes; spread it out! If you look at any orchestral repertoire, this technique is used for French Horns often). Or you could take out the bottom octave Eb... or both.
7. Meas. 21; eighth note before next bar: sure, it is necessary to complete the chord, but close spacing like that will most likely be kind of useless, especially in divisi in 4. Take some notes out.
8. Meas. 23: again, Violin I most likely won't be heard too well... think of it this way: there are usually 12 to 30 Violins in an orchestra. It may not even be evenly divided, and it may even be too quiet for one to hear the Violins with the Percussion and Bass in the background.

Dammit, school leaves me like, NO time to work on my music. x_x How the hell am I getting to college for composition next year if this keeps up? xD Anyway, I totally changed this song around the 1st key change. I think it's better than what I had before. :D

I know I probably should have started some new material by now, but I have this really bad habit of starting songs and never coming back to them, so I try to avoid that so my hard drive doesen't explode. XD

Okay, someone check this one out. It's too badass not to. XD Ignore the fast part at the end though, I'm debating weather to try to make it better or just take it out. :heh:

.....and it's done! =D Comments please. I consider this to be my first real song since I didn't have any theory knowledge back when I made my halo fan song. :P

I see some good new ideas, but you may want to work out that beginning part to connect the ideas better (based off of what I remember from a few days ago).

I think the beginning is fine, but I'm open to suggestions. :P What exactly do you mean by work out? There isn't anything wrong with it. :heh:

Transitions, e.g. Meas 6-8, 11-13. That's all that kind of bothers me...

Ok, I started a new song, but it has an ACUTAL title! XD Oh, and I think I fixed some stuff in my other song too. :heh:

In ride in the wind, I see issues with transitions and flow, starting at meas. 7. At meas. 1-6, it seemed like you had a melody flowing well until that long(er) tone at 7. At 10-11, I suggest trying different chords besides major chords to try to add a bit of variety.

I added to the song, but didn't see your reply until after. :heh:

edit: And it's finished! I kept it short at 40 measures. :P I'm gonna try to finish one of these short songs every weekend so I can eventually have some skill at making stuff. XD

You really need to do something about your left hand. Single notes with rhythms and block chords can only go so far. Also, chord progressions that progress stepwise all the time just don't cut it. You need to skip around more with jumps and chord inversions more.

Hey, can someone help me with this before it turns into crap? :heh:

Sorry for double posting, but I fixed this one up, so I felt the need to bump my topic for people to see it. XD

Oh, and the other song is an assignment for music theory. :P Comments would be appreciated on that one too. It's only for choir because that's the requirements for the assignment...if this song ends up being badass, I'll try to turn it into something for a string trio and an accoustic guitar. XD

assignment: I see how you approached the Ab / Db in the 2nd measure, but it's a bit too soon, in my opinion (maybe a D natural?).

It's a Db. :P (is the tenor voice even supposed to be in tenor clef? xD) I know it's too soon, but we have to use all those BS rules like proper doubling and whatnot. T_T

It's a Db. :P (is the tenor voice even supposed to be in tenor clef? xD) I know it's too soon, but we have to use all those BS rules like proper doubling and whatnot. T_T

:heh: All right then. The tenor voice should have a treble clef with an "8" below it.

Dammit, I finished the whole song, but he told us he changed his mind and only wanted a soprano line. XD Oh well. :P

Anyway, check this one out: (it's a variant of 'ending credits song')

Try to avoid using the same notes in variations and just changing the rhythms. Think of different ways to approach the notes (listen to Mozart's Ah vous dirai-je, Maman, for example) with accidentals.

Ooh, I never thought of that, I'll have to keep that in mind. :heh: We're playing dives and lazarus in orchestra right now, so I wanted to try making a variant of something. XD Hopefully it turns out good.

Anyway, here's a random thing I thought of yesterday:

I hate to sound self-centered, but I feel like I'm the most badass person in the world. XD Check out the first song, and (hopefully) you can see I have some sort of reason for feeling like this. :P

10-15-08- It's random. :/ When switching time signatures, try (not always) to do so for one phrases and not a mix of many.
idk2- It has a lack of flow...

10-15-08- It's random. :/ When switching time signatures, try (not always) to do so for one phrases and not a mix of many.
idk2- It has a lack of flow...

Oh, I just put it in 5/4 for the first 2 measures of '10-15-08' because it worked out better that way. Is there a better way to do it? That was the best I could think of. XD

I can see what you're saying about 'idk2', but which spot(s) is the lack of flow really bad?

The harmonies in both 10-15-08 and idk2 don't help to keep the pieces moving. Therefore, it creates a lack of flow and it makes the 5/4 to 4/4 change awkward.

Is this better on idk2? :heh: (I don't remember if I edited 10/15 or not. XD)

idk2: Yes, it's better. There's just some small transitions that you could work on, e.g. 12-13. The chords need to be more pronounced (only way I can describe it; sorry).
10-15-08: Try to not rely always on percussion for harmony; take the score apart, and see how you can use the guitars.

I think I fixed up the problem in idk2 now. :lol: I have a concert tomorrow and 79454587978 other things to do this week, so the other song has to wait until the weekend or (hopefully NOT) winter break. XD

Still, the chords need to be more pronounced. All that I can say is look and listen to it critically, and think: "is this piece a good representation of how I think "good music" (in suggestive terms) is?"

idk2 sounds a bit wonky to me in terms at parts, but I rather liked the interplay between the hands. In fact, it might sound better if you've take out some of those triad block chords (lightening up the texture) and make it mostly a contrapuntal piece.

I fixed some things, and more importantly, finished the song! (well, for now. it's only 20 measures. XD)

Random question, but what key signature(s) come to mind when you hear 'Regalia of Ancient Fire'? :P I was thinking of making a song with this title for our huge music theory project next semester, so I figured I should start that now. XD

Good sir, I haven't really done this before, but I have edited your chords and their placement/notation in your piece. Take those as my comments.

Simply, they way you had them written and voiced, they sounded very mushy and not rich at all. After you get down from middle C and even lower, chords with thirds or fourths DO NOT work, unless it IS a desired effect, in which this case it did not sound good together. Try using as many fifths as you can and disperse from there. There is a 10th chord in the beginning-- and as you know, if you can't hit a chord, roll it.

Hope this helps, kind sir.

My suggestion is that you listen to your top five favourite pieces of music in this world and think to yourself what makes them so irresistibly great. Incorporate that into your own work and you will be discover a much more enjoyable time composing music (and the same goes for your listeners). There is nothing in this composition but random note-striking by the click-and-paste method. This is typically the case with people who download Finale and start adding random passages together.

Thanks for the suggestions mazeppa, I actually changed a few of my chords. :heh:

Whee. New songs. (except for 10-15, that was a song from about a week ago. I just added to it. XD)

I started an arrangement of tori no uta for cello, violin, and acoustic guitar. Tell me what you guys think...:heh:

Sounds like a nice start. As a fellow arranger of "Tori no Uta" (I've arranged it for woodwind quartet a few years ago), I'd say you've managed to capture the essence of the music so far, and also added some interested interplay between the instruments. But that said, there are some instrumentation factors you might want to consider as you go along.

For one, you're guitar parts gets uncomfortably high at parts. I'm assuming that even though it sounds like it's in normal treble clef, you actually intend it to be an octave lower than written, which is the convention. But even so, the "8va" section is really high - I think the frets stop at the high E around there, so that triad probably wouldn't ring very well at this register.

You might also want to open up some of those triple stops in the violin and cello, or remove the middle note to make them easier to play. It's going to be hard to get an expressive sound cause you can really comfortably sustain anything higher than a double stop. Triple and quadruple-stops are really more for one-shot accents and such.

Outside of instrumentation, I've found the music to be mostly agreeable. The only thing that kind of bothered me was your reinterpretation of that climax (around ms. 24) - it really feels weakened without that falling suspension.

I kind of figured out the issue with the guitar part, so I removed the 8va. :heh:

I don't think the chords are too hard to play...they are all pretty much open strings with one extra note. :\

Well, it not showing up like that one the score you've posted. For example, at ms. 14 in the violin, you have an unplayable closed position B minor chord. Also, while the G major closed chord on ms. 32 in the Cello is playable, it's not really pleasant to have the open note on the high string for a sustained chord.

The easiest way to fix this is just make them open position - in this case, it solved but shifting the high D to the open D for the violin chord, and the low B up an octave for the cello chord.

I did think about how my freinds would kill me if they had to play all these chords, so I fixed them. XD

wat kind of music is that?

It's tori no uta. It's not finished yet, so don't go trying to perform it or anything. XD

AND MY PLAN FOR WORLD DOMINATION.....I mean, my arrangement, is complete. xD I'm still fixing out some problems with the ending, but that doesen't really matter. I also started a new song, so somebody give me an xmas present of some constructive critism please. :heh:

You should try to establish what kind of harmonies you want to use and to look for various pattern to follow. Looking at the score it just looks like various ideas injected and sounding uninterested, random and unorganized. Try to choice the harmonies you want, and interesting ones; look what will work better and what will work less for a piece; look for stronger melodic patterns than the ones you are using. Establish an organization and explore with various ideas to see what can be the best to use in a piece.

Also work the music by parts. Try to make phrases of 8 bars with at least 4 chords that repeat in the second half of that phrase. And make a cadence at the end of it, for then to move to a new phrase(Like a comma or period). Also remember if you organize the sections in 4, 8 or 16 bars, will give a sense of "complete" to the listeners(Not a law, but creates that effect).

You should try a form like ABA, write a theme of 8 bars then put a contrasting theme and go back to the first theme with some alterations or as it appeared the first time. That can help to start, then to move to bigger forms.

Comments please! This song is more intended as background music for like, an ocean or something. XD

Oh, I know about ABA, but if I know myself, I know that any song I try to write in ABA form is going to get repetitive VERY fast. :heh:

I think first of all a melody has to come. Your pieces just doesn't seem to be melody, or tune. There's no line to the music, no feeling of beginning, middle, and end. The notes just go and go but don't seem to lead to in any direction. There can be no song without a melody. The melody is the key aspect to music (unless your doing some kind of abstract, expressionist piece).

And about ABA form, I believe it is standard practice that the second time though the A, the tune is easily recognizable but either embellished or written as a variation of the first A.

Well, I tried putting this song into ABA form, and it's not too bad so far. :heh: Oh, and I gave it a kinda better name too. XD

lol. nice "AAH! A SHARK! xD". That was funny, though it seemed kinda short. Logic says that a shark will not leave so quickly after rushing towards its prey unless it was hit on the nose (though I'm not entirely sure if it's true that sharks will back down after a hit on the nose). there is a period of waiting and baiting and suspense. the point of music is expression and development just like story telling. there's a beginning, a build up, a climax, and an ending.

Also, since you intended this to be background music (and I'm assuming you're leaning towards more of video game bg music) there has to be a loop point. And the loop can't be too short that it gets boring as it keeps repeating. Remember that background music serves to make slow parts of the game seem interesting and accentuate the excitement of fast-paced parts.

The melody seems to be coming along nicely though the transition from your B section back to your A section is a little rough. And each section of the music seems a little short and undeveloped. On a side note, the beginning sounds kinda Chinese to me. I'm not sure whether that's weird to my ears or not, so I'm just telling it as a fact, not opinion there.

Haha, I'm glad someone liked that part. I wasn't too sure what to title that section, and all of a sudden I was like, '....SHARK!' XD

Anyway, I fixed a few things, and attempted to make the ending of the first page the 'loop point' you were talking about. :heh:

For the loop stuff, I was actually only talking about the shark part. the beginning part was fine the way it was. Right now it seems you biggest challenge is keeping the flow of the music, your transitions are rough and there seems to be little direction, just one idea then another, then another.

I believe I have fixed the shark part now. :P

BTW, here's an early merry christmas to those that celebrate. :P I hope you all get coal...I mean, all those lovely gifts you asked for. :shifty:

And I'm done. I don't really feel too good about the ending, can somebody give me some pointers please? XD I really can't think of anything else to put there. x_x

I think if you arrange the harmony where the shark is coming and arrive, you will get a better effect of what you want to simulate.

Like this? I think this is a little better...^.^

Well, in a lesson on musictheory.net, they show you a period of music. I wanted to see if I could turn that into a song, so I guess this is the result. :P Comments please...

The way the first part was presented it felt dull due the slow movement of the notes. After the first 8 bars, you could have started the new phrase with a Cmaj chord for have a better change of phrase. This second phrase was less organized compared with the first one, sounding 'random'. At the end of this phrase you could have choice the Cmaj chord again for go back to the first theme. When you went back to the first theme, it was good the little variation you did to it. After that, the piece seem to be finished and the modulation unnecessary.

Here is an exampled I did, taking the first theme you did in the first phrase. I did various variations to the melody for have it more vivid. I cut the rest of the piece and added a mid section for then return back to the first theme. It goes like this Fmaj>Cmaj>Fmaj; Cmaj being the fifth of Fmaj was the simple choice for get something without problem. Another simple choice could be to go to its relative minor scale Dminor then to return to Fmaj. Look also at the cadences at the end of each phrase, Cmaj7>Fmaj; Gmaj>Cmaj.

Ok, I hope I am not confusing you and not making any mistake, if yes, anyone correct me please. :P

Well, that sure sounded different...xD But that's a totally different direction which I don't really want to go in with this one...:heh:

And I'm done! I don't think I did too bad. :P

that's a totally different direction which I don't really want to go in with this one...:heh:
And that direction would be...? I'm having a very hard time figuring out your intentions with this piece. I mean, let's not lie to ourselves here; You did not put the slightest thought into this song. I'm sorry for coming off this way, but... it really ticks me off when people use Finale as if it were a what-you-see-is-what-you-get kind of deal instead of what it is; A composer's tool.

People who say otherwise are lying to you, and you shouldn't take their opinions seriously. Either that, or they too are using this software as if it were a purikura-editor...

Again, I *am* sorry for coming off this way but it is just so see-through... x_x

I did put thought into this peice. :\ I always try to apply what I learn in music theory class into my music, so I don't really think it's fair how you can say I don't put thought into anything. :bleh:

I liked your song, it's really good and works on so many levels actually. I especially liked how it wasn't repetitive throughout, that it constantly developed itself.... no, sorry I can't go on with this.

You come to a forum to showcase your music and to get better as a composer. I'm telling you that this song is the exact opposite of what music should be -- Either take the criticism or ignore it completely, but telling me that I'm not being fair is kind of pointless.

The thing you said about music theory... I've gotten to know many many composers here over the years, and those who composed their music without trying to implement theory into their works have always ended up composing much, much better songs. Music theory is an invaluable asset if used to enhance your already existing creativity. However, if used alone it will just turn out... well, like this piece. It is just random and makes no sense.

Of course everyone likes different stuff and I'm not one to put words in peoples' mouths, at least I'm trying to quit, but I'm telling you that if you keep composing the way you do now then you will get nowhere. ;)

Well, how can i make this song better? I honestly don't see what's wrong with it...:heh:

This is some sort of battle theme.

You may want to add percussion or drum set to a battle theme, it help to get the flow. And some simple and catchy chords, mostly having a rhythmic or pulsing harmony. Later you can try to go more complicated.

Percussion with piano? That sounds like an interesting idea, but the song definatly has to be finished first so I know where to take the percussion...

Anyway, this song is getting really bad so far, and I really have no idea how to fix it. :heh: Every time I try adding or taking away stuff, it just sounds worse. x_x

Zippy, I know exactly where Noir7 is coming from. This new battle theme is yet another example of what he was talking about. Have you ever been inspired, just inspired, and wrote down what came to mind? When I just pop a melody out of my head it may not be some amazingly, rememberable theme, but it's a melody that you can follow and it makes perfect sense.

I've done that, and basically all of the pieces that I have ever actually written I posted here. I was never Noir7's "friend" when I came to Ichigo's back three years ago, but when I finally just read what he was telling me (and what other's were backing) I kicked myself in the ass an actually just tried to write something which was music that made sense. Oh? And I didn't know an ounce of music theory and it was still pretty darn easy. You see, you just have to open your eyes to other music and truly see what makes it so magical and so interesting. Do you think Music Theory was used in Bach's day? Mozart's? Even Beethoven's? Nope, at least not like how it's taught. Bach's music made sense, even if some of it is too dragged on and just a bunch of modulation (well, his Mass in B minor I really don't care too much for). But!! Look at the Goldberg Variations! Some of those are BUSY AS HELL, but they all make sense and they have a flow to them.

In many cases you do not have a flow, which I just mentioned-- in fact, I am not moving in one constant direction. Sure, people say, "Oh wow! I didn't feel that coming!" But what they mean is they liked how it unexpectedly changed, but when they say it in this topic.. it really isn't much of a compliment. I would try and make your music flow in order to do that. Do you know why the blues progressions are all fitted into one bar after another? Because it makes sense to the human ear. It compliments the ear and it sounds good and you can follow it. Your "progressions" don't do anything to me to listen. Trust me, I know quite a bit of music theory (especially traditional theory) and I don't even see a pinch in your music. Music theory was originally given to people to see how music is structured and to make it make sense and sound pleasing to the ear and the mind (maybe even the body!). And yours does not.

I am not wanting to be harsh on you, Zippy, but I only want you to wake up and study and study and study to really make sure that you know what music is. Can you hum a very famous melody? Maybe Ride of the Valkyries? Now hum on of your melodies. Sound's completely different right? How about play that standard I-IV-I-IV-I-V-IV-I blues pattern? Now play one of yours. Different again, right?

I hope you're taking all that I am saying (and Noir7) to heart and actually trying to look at your music differently. Take me for example, I absolutely hate all of my music, except for maybe one or two pieces. And those couple of pieces are fairly simple but they all have a memorable melody and a progression that makes sense and slides from one harmony to the next. If you knew theory you'd know what works, so I can't even say that you know an theory if you say you truly try to apply it in your compositions. I never try to apply it, but it only makes my understanding of music to open up possibilities.. and that's what theory should do ultimately. It teaches you what sounds good, but I guess if you're getting and F in the class then how are you apply theory?

Please Zippy, take what we have to heart. We're only here to help you, otherwise I would not even both writing this, and neither would Noir7, two times. I hope you find meaning in this. Good luck.

I know I don't really have a flow...:heh: I've been trying to work on that, but every damn time I try to fix that problem, it doesen't work...

But I really have been thinking about what you guys said, and I really am trying to fix things and get better. It just...isn't working out yet. XD

Here's an assignment then.

Write a piece in 4/4 using C Major. Make a simplistic melody (something like Mozart) and a simple progression of chords under it.

Start out simple, and you'll just naturally add more and more to it. I don't know how your mind works, but this should make sense to anybody.

It's actually a good start! Keep up with it so I can say more.

The piece is having a good start using the Alberti bass. But then, it fall again in a "mess" of notes. Keep it at least for 8 measures then move to something different, or leave the bass as it is, but using different chords for have variety. A melody would benefit the start better than having the chords playing on the right hand.

What kind of mood are you thinking for this piece?
What do you see in this piece?
What do you dislike of this piece?
What do you like of this piece?
What kind of method are you following with this piece?
What do you think you are learning from this piece?
What are you looking in this piece?

You seem stuck in the same. However, seem you tried to do use of the repetition, but the way you are working the left hand and the right hand are not being precisely "rich" musically. And there is not a precise direction in this music, just seem a lot of notes stick together without make sense. As I said before, keep the Alberti bass at least for 1 phrase(8 bars), take out those chords at the right hand at the beginning and place there something melodic, will do a better job.

If you want to take a look, I would recommend you to look at simple piano scores and to study them for have a better idea and understanding; or listen to piano pieces if you like more to analyze by ear. I would recommend to take a look at Mozart's sonatas, but I did not see them at imslp.

With my work on Mozart (as a pianist) I've been becoming more aware of his "stylistic reasoning" that makes his music so amazing. I wrote this for you Zippy (in about and hour and a half XD) and I hope you get what you need out of this. I tried to use the principles I was talking about, but like I said, it isn't like some amazing melody or harmony, but this piece has a flow, uses theory and recognizable melodies (which even kind of develop). I also wanted to put in an accompany-part scale in the right hand so you can see how those are constructed and not just a mess of notes; they all go into what chord is being playing.. simple theory really.

Enjoy.

After looking at that peice you wrote, I made some changes to mine. And I also made the ending more epic. XD

I tried doing that chord pattern, but I don't know if I did it right.....:heh:

No no no... that's not it. And also, you're making it too difficult for yourself. Your melodies and harmony seem forced, as if you're just trying to keep it sounding without any purpose. Some sections, especially in your former stuff, seem like you just filled in notes in certain passages just to "fill it out" somehow.

Try again with the aforementioned chord sequence. It's an overused and overly simple background to create a snippet of music from. Use even and simple rhythms, a melody which a child could remember and an accompaniment which isn't "just there" but something that will enhance or present the melody to the listener. It can be ridiculously simple if you let it. But stay to that very progression I posted earlier, and I will show you an example to compare yours with, after you've finished. Go now!

Hey, this is easy. xD And it sounds pretty cool so far. :P

I do think that the first few bars were good, although the majority of the piece still suffers from the same thing as before...

An interesting fact is that the human brain loves to hear repetition, but in a way which isn't obvious. It's hard to explain - but when you hear a certain element repeat but in a different way, the brain picks it up and decides that "Hey, this is some good shit". Composers naturally compose music this way; Each bar of music might be different, but they hold together like invisible glue, almost like well-written essay -- actually, it's hard not to write this way, for natural composers.

Here is what where's gonna do (since you actually seem to be willing to improve, which is more than I can say for some other people...): I booted up Finale to show you an example of what I'm talking about. Try to do the following, thoroughly:

Listen to the sample and read the sheets. Notice how the dull, seemingly uninspired bass part is in the beginning, but when the other part begins; the song takes form. It's the exact same bass part, but it becomes completely "invisible" in the latter part. Hence, it's not FORCED at all. It is simply there as a foundation to uphold the melody. Furthermore, while no bar is the other one alike, the song sounds very complete and together. This is how music is composed, albeit from the simpler side... but still, trying to prove a point here =) You other wise-arse composers here can comment on this as well if you want to.

Does this make any sense?

That makes sense....:yes: But how is most of this song suffering from the same problems? :heh:

I'm done...:P

Here's what I can suggest:

1) Do not feel the need to have to switch keys in order to keep the piece moving. Start simple, and use accidentals sparingly when you're starting. Same with having to put in different time signatures.
2) At meas. 7-8, that is kind of where the flow was lost. Do not add in a rolled/expanded chord in a place you think you can expand on the melody. I've noticed repeatedly that you usually put in a chord followed by a shortened measure in order to get to the next part of the piece.

is this better at measure 7-8? :think:

are you kidding me!! I only play guitar and I'm a beginner cuz I need someone to help me.

are you kidding me!! I only play guitar and I'm a beginner cuz I need someone to help me.

wtf....:dots:

are you kidding me!! I only play guitar and I'm a beginner cuz I need someone to help me.

Are you drugged?

--------------------

I think you have improved a bit Zippy, but still there is a lot to work. I would suggest you to kill all those big rolls of chords, They sounds out of place between the parts of your piece.

Lol, I think they might have posted on the wrong thread by accident. XD

Anyway, I killed the chords, and I think I came up with something better. :think:

1/1 is a fugue, right? Cause I named it fugue in c major. :P Oh well. I added a second movement.

Sorry for triple posting, but I made a new song during history class today. :P (I absolutely HATE writing music on paper, I am grateful that finale was invented! XD) No, I wasn't taking away from class time...we were all done with work and just sitting there. :P

1/1 is a fugue, right?

Nope. In a fugue you have a short (1 - 2 phrase) subject that is introduced by a voice, say the middle treble range of the piano (as you have done), then a second voice (either a different octave or different instrument) imitates this subject while the first voice goes on to play the countersubject. Then there are sections when the melody returns, sometimes fractured, sometimes flipped, inverted, or even as a variation if one wants to. Writing a fugue in its proper form is considered an advanced form of composition. Many beginners who try it either don't get the fugue form right (which is what happened here) or get repetitive.

What you have written seems to be a single melody repeated (though varied by the minor switch near the end of the first mvt.) with interludes in between. Also there seems to be at least three different melodies floating around in here.

Remember the key to music is development. Just like in writing where you have multiple points you want to make but there is a basic form where we all begin, the introduction, body, conclusion form. You introduce in an overarching point, then expand off a part of the big point in the next part, and lastly bring it all to a close by reintroducing the big point in a slightly different way than you did at the beginning. This is the basis of classical (fugue) writing just like it is for writing English class.

Also, just like Noir7 said, there should be repetition, but in a way that is not immediately obvious.

Does that mean it's bad? xD

no. not bad per se, just not the right form for what you are calling it. If you want to pursue the fugal form you need to study that form so you know what you are doing. What I've said are just the basics of what a fugue is.

Oh, I guess i'll find a different name for it then. xD

Comments on this one please...:heh:

To me, all your pieces still seem forced. Even though you now have visually created repetitions and something of a structure; Musically, your compositions make no sense at all. I get this picture in my head when I listen to these that, they were written by some dude sitting in music class having to write something for homework, although he is only taking the music class because he has to.

I know that's not the case, because you seem eager to learn... but some people are not born composers, and when someone tells them that to their face, everyone gets all defensive and grumpy but I really don't think this is your thing.

I'd suggest you either (1) quit composing all together and do something with music that can be learned with textbooks instead, (2) keep practicing and composing the way you do, cos I know for sure that the world has a lot of mediocre composers still making a living, or (3) get pissed at me and using that anger to write something that actually has an emotional meaning.

I know that's not the case, because you seem eager to learn... but some people are not born composers, and when someone tells them that to their face, everyone gets all defensive and grumpy but I really don't think this is your thing.

No one is born composer, at least for me, I think it like that. I believe people can develop compositional skills and improve from 'mediocre' to something better. But, some can get/catch those skills easier or earlier than others; and the creative side is a factor to develop. Probably some persons have it more open(creativity) than others, but this won't mean those others can't develop those skills.

There is also heredity that can play its role, but that is not saying X person was born as a composer, but can have the possibility to develop skills easier. I guess you may know people that are really motivated in composition but have spend years without gain good results at what they are doing. This may have its own reasons, but can't take away the chance that they can improve and become something better; if they work the right places to get out of that hole where they are trapped.

Composing isn't a skill, it's an art. And if you have that sense of an artist inside of you, then you can compose something without skill..

At least, that's what I believe.

To me, all your pieces still seem forced. Even though you now have visually created repetitions and something of a structure; Musically, your compositions make no sense at all. I get this picture in my head when I listen to these that, they were written by some dude sitting in music class having to write something for homework, although he is only taking the music class because he has to.

I know that's not the case, because you seem eager to learn... but some people are not born composers, and when someone tells them that to their face, everyone gets all defensive and grumpy but I really don't think this is your thing.

I'd suggest you either (1) quit composing all together and do something with music that can be learned with textbooks instead, (2) keep practicing and composing the way you do, cos I know for sure that the world has a lot of mediocre composers still making a living, or (3) get pissed at me and using that anger to write something that actually has an emotional meaning.

lol @ 3 XD I would do that, but I'm not pissed off...I'd rather someone tell me this to me straight, instead of starting a career in this later on, and realize it myself and wonder why everyone lied to me all these years. :P

I have been thinking about it lately if this is my thing or not...right now I might suck, but maybe after a few years in college I wont. UNLV doesen't even want you to submit work for an undergrad degree, they just want you to play something on your instrument! I feel like I can totally get in, but I don't know...I wish there was a place out here to get composition lessons, cause I would totally take up that chance. We are getting around to composition this upcoming semester in theory, so maybe in a couple of months, I'll have the 'OH!' moment, and start to get better. :P

The thing I'm trying to get through to you is that composers don't need composing lessons. Just the thought of it is ridiculous. Okay, maybe an already established composer would benefit from taking lessons from a more experienced one to widen one's horizons; but anyone taking composing lessons just to "become a composer" is absolutely ridiculous. In fact, if you ever manage to compose something that I will ever put on my MP3 player I will pay you $500 directly to your bank account, that's a promise. You don't know me that well, but I would never betray such a promise, I guarantee you.

Well, I take music lessons, and they help with school, so I thought a way to learn better was composition lessons...:P

I really don't know what to do though...I would hate to go to UNLV for 4 years only to end up doing something else. I don't want to end up like my mom who couldn't pursue her theater interests, and have to end up taking a boring 9-5 desk job. :bleh:

Yah don't need to work as a musician, you can take it as hobby. As many people do. And as composer that would not be an easy career really. If your interest is the media, you will be working for clients that will be asking you what they want, if you don't please them with your music, bye bye then. If you don't have a nice demo reel to present, they will ignore you.

If you want to enter in an University as composer, the first they will ask is for a portfolio to evaluate your music. If you come with pieces like the ones you are doing right now, you won't have chance to enter. Unless is one that does not ask for a portfolio.

I recommend you to study something else, something you really like, and that you think you will stick with it. You can later try and enter to study music, if you see you really progressed enough. And if you think will be worth.

To study something else doesn't mean you have to abandon another thing. Keep it as a hobby if you want. If you are having a hard time to progress, well, see what you will do, to be persistent or to give up.

No way I'm giving up...I don't even know what I would major in besides music...no other jobs even interest me in the least bit. :P

Although, I am perfectly aware I have NO chance of getting into a school for composition besides UNLV. This is why I get annoyed at my mom; she says I should submit my song that I made a while back, to schools like yale and juillard. X_X

Anyway, can someone give me comments on these songs please? I don't want to fuck up these ones too...I don't think they're too bad so far, but tell me what you guys think. ^.^

1-9-09: I see your melodic line looks more organized now and there was a presence of a 'mood' in the cello. But I think you can improve that melodic line a lot more. The first 3 Cello's bars sounded nice as it is. Try to work the rest of the line and fill that piano. I suggest you, for the piano, to just write the chords on the right hand and the root note of the chord on the left hand. May sound dull but can be a good start to visualize those things better.

Why don't you try throwing Finale out the window and actually put your mind into composing something of value? It's dreadfully obvious that you're popping up the program just clicking in notes as you see fit, and even though it now has a better structure (and makes more sense, visually) it doesn't exclude the fact that there is no soul in these pieces, at all. As a composer, you put yourself on a sheet; When people listen to your compositions, it's YOU they hear.

Finale may be a valuable for many composers, but it's getting you nowhere. Remember that a man only owning a hammer only sees nails, and I'm afraid that Finale is making things too easy for you and it's obviously affecting your writing.

Do you own an instrument, by the way?

I know I have to fix the cello part, it was driving me crazy for about an hour to come up with something after the first 3 measures. XD

And to answer your question noir, I own a cello and a keyboard. I want to learn guitar when I get to college too. :P

Go away of Finale and try to compose with the piano. See if there is any difference in the way your music comes... Chords and a melody, keep it simple. Even try Noir7's chord progression with the piano, and look for a simple melody for the chords.

Or try this better, Kanon D-dur chord progression. One totally recognizable and abused. Simple to use and easy to get a melody that can be pleasant. In the key of Dmajor:

Dmaj, Amaj, Bmin, F#min, Gmaj, Dmaj, Gmaj, Amaj; (I V vi iii IV I IV V).

I hope that can help you.

...it was driving me crazy for about an hour to come up with something after the first 3 measures. XD

Probably because the first three measures are the one's that sound the best because it most likely wasn't forced. If you can't come up with something that you can't sing or hear perfectly in your head, don't try to continue writing something! The best thing you can do is let it sit. Brew. Go do something else.
Go for a walk. Take a nap. Watch some anime. Read a book. Whatever. Get your mind off composing for a long time. Then, while sitting around one day try to continue writing by humming while out for a walk or something. The ideas should come more naturally then.

Is this better at measure 3-4? :think: I think it sounds less 'forced', but tell me what you guys think.

Well, it sounds a BIT better than before, but STILL, there is a lot to work. What PorscheGTIII said is true, and did you tried Noir7's chords and Kanon's chords? Did you get any good result from those chords?

With exams and everything coming up this week, I only managed to start a melody...:heh: But something is better than nothing I guess.

I should lock your thread entirely until you stop raping Finale's rear like you've been doing since the start. However, that would "go against the rules" or whatever, so I won't, but come on -- name ONE thing in *any* of your compositions that would encourage *anyone* to hum them while waiting for a train at the station, or *anything* in your compositions that would make people think, "Oh, that's so zippy...".

You've gotten more than enough constructive criticism to evolve to the next level, yet you are not showing me any improvement. For God's sake Zippy try to put your mind and soul into your writing instead of letting the fucking notation program run you like that.

Oh, that's so zippy..."

Sorry, this is a pointless reply, but I found that funny. >_>

Edit:

I can say the same with yours. :>

V
V

You're right, that is a pointless reply.

I should lock your thread entirely until you stop raping Finale's rear like you've been doing since the start. However, that would "go against the rules" or whatever, so I won't, but come on -- name ONE thing in *any* of your compositions that would encourage *anyone* to hum them while waiting for a train at the station, or *anything* in your compositions that would make people think, "Oh, that's so zippy...".

You've gotten more than enough constructive criticism to evolve to the next level, yet you are not showing me any improvement. For God's sake Zippy try to put your mind and soul into your writing instead of letting the fucking notation program run you like that.

Wow...I AM trying to improve, and am taking the critism to thought when I'm writing on finale. Maybe it's not working too good yet, but I still feel like I am improving a little bit each day. How can you POSSIBLY think I am still just having a 'clicking crusade' on finale? :bleh:

But I won't lie either...of course nobody would hum my music while waiting for a train or whatever, because I'm still a noob to all of this. :P Hence, my music isn't exactly mp3 player ready yet. XD But it will be in a while....

edit: *reads the sticky* XD

Zippy, you are doing great. You're definitely moving in the right direction and I never said that you were on a "clicking crusade" on your newest attempts. What I am saying is that I wish you'd take a break and forget about Finale for a while and put your mind into composing real music. Compare your latest piece with you former ones and you'll realize how much you've actually evolved. However, to reach the level of what most people call "composition" you have to learn to let go.

Just try, and if that doesn't work; then come back and bitch at me. But for now, just try to listen, will you?

Zippy, you are doing great. You're definitely moving in the right direction and I never said that you were on a "clicking crusade" on your newest attempts. What I am saying is that I wish you'd take a break and forget about Finale for a while and put your mind into composing real music. Compare your latest piece with you former ones and you'll realize how much you've actually evolved. However, to reach the level of what most people call "composition" you have to learn to let go.

Just try, and if that doesn't work; then come back and bitch at me. But for now, just try to listen, will you?

Well, I did try writing down music in my composition book a few times, but i would always end up just doing a few phrases or so, then turning them into songs on finale, because for some reason, I really can't just sit there and imagine how it sounds unless I can either play it on my instrument or finale first...:heh:

I'm done! Comments please! Praise/telling me what I fucked up appreciated! XD

I hate to be a pain, but if anyone has the full version of finale with GPO, could somebody save this song as a mp3 with GPO? I want to see what this sounds like with real instrument sounds, and this song goes just a wee bit too high, so I can't play it myself. XD

I hope you yourself realize how much you've grown as a composer in a very, very short period of time. Once you started to listen to what people had to say and not letting half-arsed material slip through, you've actually managed to write something decent which hints of thought behind it. The most important thing for you right now is to listen to your favourite pieces of music (by other composers) and try to analyze just *why* they sound so good. When you're then back to composing, don't ever get sloppy again by accepting mediocrity if you deep down know it's there.

I just took a moment to listen to some of your older stuff and compared it with this piece, and I must say, you have grown as a composer; you're learning to take form and chords and working to mold them around a melody that has direction. It sounds like a classical etude :) I hope to hear more from you, and always strive to outdo yourself and improve with every composition you make.

Thanks guys. I'll try to get more stuff up...whenever I can think of something. :P I've got no ideas right now. :heh:

I actually already do analyze music while listening to it...it drives me absolutely insane when I'm trying to figure out the key signature of a song, and just can't seem to figure it out. XD

Zippy, that is a damn good step forward. That does show a good progress as Noir7 and Ajamesu commented. You applied various things and they worked a lot better than you was trying before. I hope you keep improving, you seem persistent and that is good.

Thanks...I hope I keep improving too, otherwise my first year of college is really going to suck. XD

Your melodic lines seem better now, but you can polish that more. The piano bars you filled are not working with the cello. You should re-make those bars and find something that can help to accompany the cello line. Write down first the chords, see later how you will use them with the piano.

Attempted a better piano part....:P

The melody clashes with some chords, and the cello/piano in parallel fifths doesn't sound that good. Try to set the cello voice to piano with the mixer, and take out the dynamics. Listen to the voices, and see if that's what you really want. Use this method to find any clashes and harmonies you don't like. If it honestly sounds good to you, go ahead with it and surprise us. The cello melody doesn't seem to be going anywhere, honestly. I like the last four bars, though, it can be used to build up to something.

The melody clashes with some chords, and the cello/piano in parallel fifths doesn't sound that good. Try to set the cello voice to piano with the mixer, and take out the dynamics. Listen to the voices, and see if that's what you really want. Use this method to find any clashes and harmonies you don't like. If it honestly sounds good to you, go ahead with it and surprise us. The cello melody doesn't seem to be going anywhere, honestly. I like the last four bars, though, it can be used to build up to something.

Well, I'm using printmusic '07, so I don't have a mixer. :heh:

I see what you're saying though, about the melody not going anywhere. Is this better? :think:

Okay. This is supposed to be background music for something...like, the kind of 10 second clip you hear in a game when something is loading.

Well, I'm shit out of ideas for music. :heh: So I dug up an old song and fixed it up a bit.

Come on people, I really need some comments! :bleh:

Well, if I were you I'd take the lack of comments as a comment.

What's that supposed to mean? :eek:

Zippy, you should try to present more than a few bars of music for people to comment on your piece. I have no see the other .mus files but this last one just have a few bars.

Zippy, you should try to present more than a few bars of music for people to comment on your piece. I have no see the other .mus files but this last one just have a few bars.

I used to do the same thing. Don't expect anyone to comment after you've changed a couple of things and added a few measures because people won't have that much to comment on. I think of this forum as more of a place to showcase at least a good chunk of a composition than a place for the monitoring of daily progress. So yes, please post when you've added more! :)

I know, but after I started that peice (1-9 2nd mvt), my brain crashed or something. XD

edit: I managed to add to it...for some reason, I can't get anywhere with this song. x_x I also touched up an old song....

2nd edit: *screams* WHOO! I manged to snag the full version of finale '09 on ebay for $200! :D That's a damned good deal! I'll probably run my last through songs through GPO in a week or so, but I am so glad I don't have to deal with instrument sounds that sound like a dead cat anymore! XD

I think you could get it cheaper by just upgrading. But this would depend of the version you are currently using, I think. Or maybe no.

Edit:

1-6-09: this was going to drive me crazy. Zippy do not go backward, go forward in your progress!

My comment is this: Screw it, delete it, Throw it in the bin. And extract measure #17 & #18 and use them in a new piece. Those two measures can be extended and use in a better way. Just think, experiment, think more, and polish it.

That's what I thought too, but it tells me on my makemusic account that an upgrade from printmusic '07 is $400, but the auction on ebay had it for half. ^.^

I seriously cannot think of anything to add on to this song. x_x My brain must be on standby mode this week or something. XD

1-6-09: this was going to drive me crazy. Zippy do not go backward, go forward in your progress!

My comment is this: Screw it, delete it, Throw it in the bin. And extract measure #17 & #18 and use them in a new piece. Those two measures can be extended and use in a better way. Just think, experiment, think more, and polish it.

Is 1-6 really that bad? XD Well, I tried making a new song out of those 2 measures. (it's 1-28) It was originally longer, but I didn't like where the song was going, so I scrapped it and started over. :heh:

YAY finale came in the mail today. ^.^ I ran a few songs through the garritan sounds for finale thing, but I'm still trying to figure this thing out. XD I cant seem to find the 'save as mp3' option, so if anyone doesen't have '09, let me know and I'll upload the music xml instead. :P

Save as mp3 is in save special under the file menu, but my experiences with finale '08 says you need to go to the document menu and change the settings to play as MIDI instead of play as VST in order to save in compressed mp3 format. If you have it set on play as VST the program will only let you save in .WAV format, not in mp3.

Well, I tried saving as wav, and it still saves it with the VST sounds, so it doesen't really matter I guess. I can just convert it with itunes after I save it as WAV. XD

Ok, I am really stuck on this song. x_x I really can't think of anything to add to it......

You didn't start with complete melody. I can tell first two bars are good, but the rest is just forced. I think that shall help you, but that means you'll basically have to scrap all that you've written other than those first two bars.

I see what you mean, although I think it started to get 'forced' after measure 9-10. :P I don't know why stuff sounds better in my head, then I come back a week later and wonder "wtf is this shit?" XD

Is this any better?

I tried editing an old song to see if it's any better. :P I guess I saved over the wrong file, cause this one does have the VST sounds....xD

Finally, a new song. Granted, I kind of took the first 7 measures from an assignment we were doing in theory today, but I could really care less, because I have had composer's block for at least a month. XD

Now that's what I call organized randomness.

Noir, some of your comments just make me laugh. XD I just copied that song from a theory assignment....:P (although everything after measure 7 or so is my ideas)

Well then, that explains why it's very organized yet has no compositional value!

FINALLY! After a month of not being able to think of anything, I finally had the lightbulb moment and thought of some stuff to add. XD

Can't open files anymore.

Ok, here is the music xml you can use instead. These are used just like .mus, just unzip it and open it with finale. Only problem with these is that I don't think it saves the same VST sounds that were used, so If you have the full version of finale, I used the cello solo KS and steinway piano VST sounds if you want to hear it the way I wrote it. :P

I'm taking a stab at a peice for orchestra. I originally wanted an electric guitar too, but finale doesen't have the proper VST for an overdriven electric guitar, and that SHIT softsynth one isn't going to work for me. XD So if anyone knows of a free/cheap overdriven guitar VST, PM me please!

Don't ask about the name. I don't know where it came from either. XD

Well, I got bored and decided to make an arrangement of the music that is playing on the space junk galaxy level on super mario galaxy. :P

Hi Zippy, can you export some of your music as mp3 ? or midi ? so that I can have a listen please :)

Here you go. Don't mind the shitty quality, they ARE midis after all. XD (if you use finale and want a better quality, just open the midi with finale. even the crap softsynth is better than midi sounds. :P) When I'm not lazy, I'll upload the .wav with the GPO sounds. :P

These are the 2 main things I'm working on right now, but I might just bail out on the 2nd mvt of 1-9 since it's been over a month and anything I try adding just doesen't work. x_x