Hey everyone,

So I thought I'd increase the reward for the next contest to ￥95.000, or ~1000 dollars, to put it into a more familiar format!

I'm fully aware that most people are pissed at me (at least slightly) for the judgment I gave last contest, but quite frankly I don't give damn ^__^;; The only reason I haven't been demoted from the moderator position yet though is because of... well, I'm not really sure why because the whole staff seems to reject me completely to be honest, and I think I'm still here only because the majority of it is too lazy to demote me. So until 'then', I'll continue to walk this board in the way of my liking.

So, 1000 dollars will most probably be the prize money for the next contest, and I'm currently trying to figure out what kind of contest it will be -- I will certainly not give a thousand dollars to a composer just 'giving a shot' at winning money, that's for sure.

My former contest, which Deathraider won, was a failure in my eyes. Deathraider's composition was a great piece of work -- at any level. If I were a rich man, I'd make Deathraider rich. However, I'm not a wealthy man, but I am dedicated to bring out the talent that this forum is capable of. To those who agree that the losing entries of the last contest (counting everyone except Nyu's and Death's entries) were certainly not worth a hundred dollars of a prize money are welcome to make their voices heard in this thread in regard to what this next 1000 dollars contest should be about.

Thank God Deathraider and Nyu001 decided to participate last time. I mean, if they didn't, I'd look like a fool because there's no way in hell I would've given $100 to any of the other composers in that contest. Such great composers, all of them, composing such mediocre songs.

So, beloved members of Ichigos... do you have any specific ideas for the next grand competition? I tried to get in contact with the rest of the staff last time in order to make Deathraider's song more public by publishing it in on the main site, but *oh surprise* they didn't bother to even give a fucking reply. I have a few tricks in my sleeves to get this time's winner more publicized, albeit in an exclusively japanese network (Not to say that's to your disadvantage...). So, let's get big in Japan while earning a quick big buck!

Ideas?

(Thoughts and criticism on me as a community moderator alone is welcome in my already-full PM-box which I probably won't bother to prune =)

よろしくお願いします

I think that is a huge step with the prize. And I must say I am amaze that you offer such a high prize! Many new members may come here for the money, lol.

I always had in mind to challenge composers by avoiding "cliché" stuffs. Like for a romantic theme to avoid a piano or string which are the best bet for create that atmosphere. Something that can make the composer think in different alternatives and be capable to explore more. Or creating a kind of restrictions to see how the composer can handle it.

That is the only I can say, I have no idea of anything else for the moment.

I think $1000 is big, but I'm wondering. Would it scare off some people?

I'd do it though :)

What if we got some well respected musicians and/or composers to be guest judges for the contest? If we wrote to them, I'm sure we could get someone who would be willing to help out.

What if we got some well respected musicians and/or composers to be guest judges for the contest? If we wrote to them, I'm sure we could get someone who would be willing to help out.

I could ask Norihiko Hibino. It's a super long shot, but it would be great if we could.

I agree with Nyu; this contest should challenge people to think out of the box. But it also shouldn't give an unfair disadvantage to others.

Maybe a musical interpretation of story or quote, similar to how Deathraider interpreted that bit from Tess of the d'Urbervilles.

You could set a theme? Love, Sadness, Joy? Sadness and get getting happy at the end?

Or you cold find a movie scene. I know there was one like that before as well.

Wow. How did I miss all this drama before?

Well, I'd say if you're tossing $1,000 dollars out there, you shouldn't ask for anything less than a symphony or a concerto. You need movements, man.

In terms of theme, I say anything you freaking want. Batman? Hamlet? Autumn? China? Bubble Gum? Pick your favorite poem or novel or whatever. This isn't just a competition, this is a commission.

I agree with Alfonso de Sabio. But about how much time would you give the people participating? I would say give 4 months in my opinion for a symphony with movements. Maybe more or less, depends on a normal person's time it takes to compose a decent symphony. $1000 is really a lot. You would need maybe 3 expert judges on this? Everyone has their own opinions on music.

Ok, if he's really willing to drop $1,000 I say he gets to judge it all by his freaking self. Like I said, this should be much less like a competition than a commission with one dude fronting that much money.

Of course somebody who titles himself "Orchestral Composer" would agree with me. hahaha

Yep. $1000 is a lot. He should judge the pieces by himself if he wants. But we should be able to compose any type of music like piano sonatas. Some people are better in composing piano pieces, some are better orchestra composers. We want to get the best of all the talented composers. But I don't know what the judge should judge on? Melody? Creativity? Emotion?

Like the previous competition, I'm sure he will be judging it on his own opinion. And yes, putting that sort of money forward should allow him the right to have the final say.

Someone mentioned the time to be given, and I think it should be at least 3 months. Composing isn't easy, so rushing it makes the quality of the compositions drop.

As to any ideas for the competition, I think it should be similar to the last one. A totally-open ended one. Anyone can compose, anything. Of course it's totally up to you, but you did as for opinions :)

So my 2c, give participants lots of time, make it totally open ended and, ADVERTISE. Many people may not hear about this, but would love to participate in something like this. Tell your friends about it. And tell your friends to tell their friends about it. The more people that know, the closer and more competitive it will be. And in turn, that will bring nicer sounding pieces.

I think this is a great idea.

To put it simply, it should be his decision on what he likes best since he is paying out the money himself. The more time I get to prepare the better in my personal opinion. However, if Noir is going to be the only judge then I wouldn't mind a small biography of him.

I disagree with only orchestral or concerto being more highly thought of then other forms. Truly great music does not mean using 20 instruments. Instrumentation should be used to the composer's necessity, not requirement. Thus, music should be judged on what it is that the composer is trying to accomplish. For instance, a piece intended to show a classical style should be judged very differently from a piece intended for a BGM of game.

Yeah, but writing a full blown symphony or concerto requires a lot more skill and knowledge than just writing some piano music or "BGM of a game." It requires a more thorough knowledge of more intstruments, structure, orchestrastion (ding!), and counterpoint.

What if we got some well respected musicians and/or composers to be guest judges for the contest? If we wrote to them, I'm sure we could get someone who would be willing to help out.

If that even happen, I would recommend someone I know that has(well finishing) a Phd in music composition. Though he may be too busy probably as to evaluate and give deep comment to various entry.

Yeah, but writing a full blown symphony or concerto requires a lot more skill and knowledge than just writing some piano music or "BGM of a game." It requires a more thorough knowledge of more intstruments, structure, orchestrastion (ding!), and counterpoint.

Although this might be true most of the time, it isn't so all the time. There are people who are stronger orchestral composers then writing for solo instrument. What I meant was that a song should not be judged less worthy simply because it isn't orchestrated. Of course if a piece, when heard, sounds like something that should have been orchestrated but the composer was just lazy then it is not good. But we mustn't forget that some of the worlds most famous music are for 1 or 2 instruments.

Judging

We could always ask people at YC to come and guest judge, but we have to admit they're ego-picky about things. :P

I think that Noir7 should be the ULTIMATE determining factor in the winner of this contest. It's his competition, it's his money, therefore it's his judgment-- although, I think he should get some help from others and I don't mean having the secret judges being the finalists. Maybe we should elect members to be judges? (Poll?) Or that idea of bringing other, more accomplished, persons? I don't know, just throwing some ideas. I feel, though, that there should be a total of (at least) 3 judges, not including Noir7's final decision.

Just ideas and opinions.

Theme

Holy crap, the hardest piece of the puzzle. Composition Competitions are really three of them put into one: 1) Deciding the Theme 2) Deciding who Wins 3) Deciding if the judging was fair or not. It's all a mess, to be honest.

I am not saying we shouldn't recycle ideas from past competitions, but it's obvious some work better than others.

No to Movie-Shot Themes. We tried and tried and tried to write music for a video shot. It just doesn't fit.

No to Free Themes. This was the last one, and people get carried away with the "free" and have this subconscious misconception that ANYTHING (as we've seen) even mediocrity is for play. There is no challenge. Nobody, even in the last competition, composed something outside their way of thinking...it was EVERYBODY'S comfort zone. Unrelated, I couldn't limit myself to everything at my disposal and yet I love having to write something within guidelines-- that's where real creativity is shown. Amen.

Yes to Song Themes. I like this idea, and it was a very interesting competition which extends the composer to not only write music, but to write appropriate lyrics and must be intelligent about arrangement and such. However, I don't feel we NEED to have a recording of someone singing (and we know what that means) in order to limit on person over another. After all, Puccini could submit an Opera and lose to somebody who wrote a standard-form song with a great recording. Is this REALLY a recording contest? *Cough*

Yes to Form Themes. Wow, people who HATE music theory or any structure laugh at this and despise it, when in reality they're making up for their lack of stubbornness to learn something useful. Although, as I said in my disagreement with a free theme, guidelines are an amazing chance to show us how creative you really are. It's obvious that you can be creative with trying to write something out of no where, that's great, but why do we analyze symphonies, sonatas, suites, soundtracks @ movie scores, operas & librettos, etc!? They hold so much thought and fun in finding out how they can write ideas, put them together, how to develop and intertwine them all and it ending up so "right." This is an amazing theme choice, I feel. I like the feeling to write something in movements, but I also like the form aspect (as in a single-longer piece, perhaps)..... Think about that one

Yes to Principal Instruments. OKay, I don't think this have been thought of. We all play an instrument here, right? Or, at least, I think. Anyway, what if we had to write a solo (or solo w/ duet) for the instrument that we play? It could be the Piano, the Violin, your Voice, the Glockenspiel or even the Drum Set! Of course, you might want to write a piano accompaniment if you have any of the latter instruments (optional?). We should have people "register" what instrument they are writing for and stick to it, at least, for their final product. NOTE: Maybe that concerto idea COULD come in handy? I know this could fall into the form category, but if it's for a concerto, then we should take in consideration some arrangements, but not orchestration. Many of the earlier concerti in the music world didn't have an amazing 'orchestrative' quality, however, as the years moved on in the early 20th century, the orchestra had an even greater purpose. (Of course, Chopin was the first to have in iiiinteresting string part in the last movement of the F minor concerto).

Yes to Opposites Themes. This is a good idea, yes, but judging what is somebody's opposite is even hardest. Myself, I am able to write in many styles and succeed with some liking... however... Someone who is able to compose a pop-ballad for piano and voice would have a harder time writing a "classical" piece for piano and voice than vice versa. It's a really difficult thing to think about and organize, but I feel it's another one of those ideas to think outside yourself and apply your creativity and skill.

Remember that these are all IDEAS, OPINIONS, SUGGESTIONS and THOUGHTS. Agree or disagree, I don't mind, but make sure that you give reasons why or why we shouldn't do something.

I'm not quite understanding that opposite idea notion. Does that mean everyone gets a different theme?

Examples:

You write Orchestral Music, you will now write a solo/duet piece and vice versa.

You write "Contemporary Music," you will now write a "Classical" Piece and vice versa.

Basically if you're used to a certain instrumentation, style, genre or whatever, you'll do the polar opposite.

Just as a side note, I think you, Mazeppa, should realize that just because a composer writes in the same style a lot does not mean he/she doesn't go outside his comfort zone to try new things within his/her own style.

Anyway, I say DEFINITELY NOT to having a YC judge. However, I agree with Mazeppa on all the ideas for themes *except* the opposites one.

I see. I agree to your terms, but it would be false to deny mine. ;)

Lol, why would you be demoted? XD You should be promoted for these contests you are having. In a shit time like this, it's nice someone is willing to just give $1000 for a composition contest.

That is alot of money though! It should definatly be a contest for full orchestra and other difficult pieces, like Alfonso said. Although having a requirement like that would require a reasonable deadline, like maybe a couple of months or something...:think:

It should definatly be a contest for full orchestra and other difficult pieces...

But what about us that aren't skilled enough?

:unsure:

Well, I have to admit I'm not skilled enough for a full orchestra piece either. :heh: I'm just saying that for a prize that big, you can't just write a little piano solo or something.

But what about us that aren't skilled enough?

:unsure:

sol?

Besides the composition itself, production and mastering has to be considered as well imo. I mean $1000 is a lot and no one should upload a poorly mastered song. A great composition can be ruined if production and mastering was skimped over. my 2 cents.

If you record, record it live (live vocal, live band, live orchestra, etc.) with very good mics and placement in an acoustically treated area. If you can't do it live then mix it in your personal studio with a DAW application using vst. You can even insert live recorded audio into your mix. If you can't do neither, sol. I know this sounds unfair, but it's also unfair if noir just hands out $1K for a poorly mastered song. Visitors will expect good quality and it'll be an embarrassment if the winner used cheap soundfonts or poorly recorded live music despite the composition itself.

I won't be in this since I'm too busy with my personal life. Good luck to everyone who participates. My question is does it have to be orchestral? Couldn't it be any genre? Anything that's pleasing to my ears and moving is a winner in my book. Isn't it why Noir was upset in the first place because nothing moved him or sounded pleasing?

Pay a visit to ocremix under the WIP non-remix subforum for good feedback. These guys are really hard to please (like noir) and rarely has anyone had a perfect WIP on their first try there. So I suggest anyone who wants to keep improving their work to stop by there for feedback. Just don't tell them about this $1000 prize or else.

I strongly believe the production should not be judged. Myself included, even though I did buy a relatively good program with realistic sounds, have limits when it comes to music samples. Unless the contest puts a limit on the instruments allowed, it would be unfair for those who does not have the samples. I do believe that I don't only speak for myself when I say that there has been countless occasions when I wanted to write something but I lacked the resource to do it.

I'm pretty sure there are composers who are limited to only midi quality of playback out there too. I know this was the case for me for the first 4-5years when I started writing.

Yeah, it's a competition for composition, not recording or editing. That's not the composer's job.

I understand that it isn't the composer's fault, but do understand that it's difficult to just focus on the composition alone while trying to get past the poor production (someone using general midi). No matter how hard I try to ignore the production, it still affects me to some degree. Finale's soundfont and general midi soundfont don't convey dynamics that well. Finale's audio playback is really poor. If it's a tie, then production and mastering would be used as a last resort. Also since this is Ichigos, it should sound decent at least. Doesn't have to be 100% perfect (like what the folks at ocremix expects).

There are some folks who may help turn your composition into a realistic sounding one, full of dynamics and what not. I can do orchestral if anyone is interested. If I have time I can do some requests. Just PM me the midi and instructions and I can turn it into a real sounding orchestra. I can do trance music as well. If you ask around you might get some help. Trust me, even though production isn't important to you, it will still have a psychological effect on the mind. I can imagine two versions of the same song, one in plain windows general midi, the other using vst's. The latter would most likely have a leading edge over the general midi.

Whoa, whoa, I think we're getting ahead of ourselves here...

Mazeppa: What are you referring to when you say, "it would be false to deny mine"? I'm a little confused as to your meaning.

What if everything went ahead, but we suggested to Noir7 what we wanted to submit. If you wanted to submit a Symphony, say "Hey, you cool with me writing a symphony?" If you wanted to write a piano sonata, same thing. Personally, I would want to write an OST. Write a story and then write an OST to accompany it. What you think?

Production, sound engineering and mixing will not be judged as part of the composition, but as someone mentioned earlier it does bear a psychological effect on the listener nonetheless. However, writing a piano solo in MIDI doesn't necessarily have a disadvantage to a full-blown orchestrated piece recorded live. It's all about the essence of the composition, and the participants should concentrate on only that. That's not to say however that they should completely ignore the technical sound of it, of course. Presentation is important and there's no way getting around it.

Oh, and someone mentioned it would be embarrassing for me handing over money to a bad composition; There's no way I would do so, and the prize money is not guaranteed at all. If there's no winner, there'll be no prize money. But as I said in the earlier contest, I fully believe that our composers here are capable of winning, which two of them were in the prior 100 dollar contest. This time however, I want to have more than two composers eligible for the winning seat.

I will not bring in guest judges, especially not from YC. Keep coming up with ideas, I'm reading ithem all.

As Alfonso suggested, a prize of $1000 is worth something big, requiring many movements. But I don't agree with it having to be as big as a symphony or concerto, as not everybody can write for an orchestra. I say we let the composer choose how many instruments he or she is willing to write for, but must compose at least 3 movements (each movement having a duration of a decent length). The piece can be judged as a whole on how well all the movements connect together. I think that this way, you give the composer some freedom while still earning the right to win the prize due to the music's larger scale.

As for the theme/form/restrictions/judges, I have no ideas.

Not all music is based with "movements", though there should be a limit in the length of a piece or song. Like it must not be less than 3 or 4 mins or not longer than 30mins; something like that. Also not all music is around the orchestra instruments. Do not forget there is electronic music, rock music and others than don't precisely use the instruments found in an orchestra.

It seems we all like the idea of a lengthy composition, made of many movements. For those who are fighting against this idea of a symphony or concerto, I wholeheartedly agree with you. It DOESN'T have to use orchestral instruments; there are many large-scale piece out there not found in an orchestral setting. Frank Zappa wrote many piece which used a standard rock band instrumentation with other instruments (could be anything) add to it. The Who wrote a few albums and pioneered the "Rock Opera." Listen to Quadrophenia and Tommy... great albums.

Instrumentation shouldn't be the case, but as we've all been saying, it's the compositional material. I am quite in favor to this lengthy theme for such a large prize. Call me a conformist, but more money equals more quantity, but that's not all, the quality should be even higher this time too (and don't forget that!).

We cannot let somebody win who makes an hour long EDM jam, which uses a lot of the same material and is basically dance music (I'll admit it; I like EDM, but it isn't something that I will sit down and listen to it for the sake of music).

Let us not forget that even though we say movements, that word can be interchanged for many other's. In a soundtrack, the different pieces could be considered movements since all of the songs/pieces apply to the big picture (no pun intended). The same goes fora video game. Symphonies and Concertos are what is thought of to have movements, but sonatas and suites have them and even chamber music ensembles too (piano trios, string quartets, rock bands, etc.). I don't know about how long or how short it must be confined to. Idea:



The composition must consist of at least 3 movements/sections. More are optional, however, any less is unacceptable. Movements are as long the composer wishes to be, as long as the pieces (as a whole) reach a minimum of 17 minutes. As a guideline, but not a rule, we suggest that you don't go over 30 minutes of music (altogether). The competition will be a total of 4 months long; starting ON the first day and the entries must be submitted BY the last day. Judging will take a long time, due to lengthy compositions, number of contestants and how large the prize is... there's a lot to take into consideration!


So, yeah. Just an idea.

I would like to see the composer be able to do anything he wants, as long as it's epic. I mean that in that you make a massive piano sonata, or a fantastic symphony or a climactic soundtrack. Something like that would be good, so everyone can play to their strengths. I think that would result in a better output of work.

It seems we all like similar approaches to this contest. :)

So I've been thinking. I don't even know if it has to be a lot of movements. Rachmaninoff's Isle of the Dead is over twenty mintutes, but it's just one movement. Certainly that should be eligble in this contest.

I think there should be SOME standard requirements on istrumentation. Otherwise we could be pinning Debussy against The Beatles. Not really fair for either.

I don't see the much of a problem. If you're writing in a rock style, aim for like...a 8 min epic rock song. If you're doing a soundtrack, do at least 60 mins of music. I think that would be even. And I guess considering Noir7 has done both rock/pop and classical, he could make a fair judgment.

I'm sorry. An hour of orchestral music does NOT equate to an "8 min epic rock song." Furthermore, who the heck wants to judge a dozen hours of music? We should all be paying Noir7 if our compositions are that long!

Haha! Fair call. I guess it's up to Noir7. I'm just shouting out possibilities, crazy and realistic haha.

I think there should be SOME standard requirements on istrumentation. Otherwise we could be pinning Debussy against The Beatles. Not really fair for either.

Haha, did you SEE the entries in the last contest?

I agree about the last chord on your string quartet; your chord sounds too top heavy because you have it in second inversion instead of having a PAC. Any particular reason you did that?

Edit: why on earth did I post this here? Must have been a little distracted...

So I've been thinking. I don't even know if it has to be a lot of movements. Rachmaninoff's Isle of the Dead is over twenty mintutes, but it's just one movement. Certainly that should be eligble in this contest.

Good point. Perhaps it's the time limit that should be the main consideration rather than the number of movements, say at least 15 minutes?

As for instrumentation, how many people here are actually going to compose an epic rock/dance/jam piece?

I don't really care for what instruments are used, as long as it sounds 'epic'. There are plenty of pieces out there written for only one instrument, but it still sounds large and impressive.

Not all music is based with "movements", though there should be a limit in the length of a piece or song. Like it must not be less than 3 or 4 mins or not longer than 30mins; something like that. Also not all music is around the orchestra instruments. Do not forget there is electronic music, rock music and others than don't precisely use the instruments found in an orchestra.

I only just noticed that this thread's title has one extra zero in it. Until now I thought it was the same thread as before, haha. Anyway, I totally agree that there is more to "large-scale" than symphonies for orchestra.

I saw this and thought "hey, maybe I'll write a song because I know somebody who has a really nice voice and I'd like to write something for her". Then I saw all this talk about symphonies and having at least three movements... I know you'll probably say "don't worry, you won't be disadvantaged" but come on. One 5 minute song vs a 30 minute symphony of many parts?? Even if the quality was equal, it would end up being at least a little "quantity over quality".

P.S. Noir, I understand your efforts to bring out the latent composing talents we have on these boards. Please don't group me with the moody bunch :P And Gand doesn't pop in on here very much anyway.

I agree about the last chord on your string quartet; your chord sounds too top heavy because you have it in second inversion instead of having a PAC. Any particular reason you did that?

I love that my compositions are being publicly discussed exclusively in this thread, while my avatar is the only topic of discussion in my actual composition thread.

(I inverted it to make it more playable on the violin.)

EDIT:

Wait a second! They're not even inverted. They begin and end on the tonic!

I think there should be an entrance fee. This would weed out the people who don't have confidence in their abilities and make the overall quality of the compositions in the contest better. I would say the top three entries get their entrance fee refunded and the winner get's the prize.

You make people give an entry fee then you'll have people not joining thinking its a scam. Also, though unlikely, if Noir was to profit from doing such a thing, I don't think Ichigo will stand for it.

Furthermore, the people who suck will be eliminated fairly early, won't they? I don't see any reason for scaring people off.

Noir wouldn't profit, he would just have to fork out less cash.

I love that my compositions are being publicly discussed exclusively in this thread, while my avatar is the only topic of discussion in my actual composition thread.


Haha, sorry, I really didn't mean to post that here. :heh:

I think that the purpose of this contest is to encourage as many people as possible to compete, and for them to write the best that they can. An entry free is entirely reasonable and appropriate in more public/large-scale competitions, but it wouldn't be beneficial here. Besides, not everybody here would be able to afford a fee, nor would they be able to easily submit/deliver that fee.

I think there should be an entrance fee. This would weed out the people who don't have confidence in their abilities and make the overall quality of the compositions in the contest better. I would say the top three entries get their entrance fee refunded and the winner get's the prize.

:huh:

This would weed out the people who don't have confidence in their abilities and make the overall quality of the compositions in the contest better.

That's just ridiculous. There are circumstances in which I can afford it, but cannot pay it online. Since it was just a suggested opinion, I'd say no fees.

What are you guys going to spend the cash on if you won? I'd recommend spending that money on a small personal DAW studio if you love composing music. That way you'd have a better chance at winning the next round. It could be a million dollar prize :lol:

I think PorscheGTIII expressed a nice idea but I don’t think an entrance fee will work as deterrent for anybody who wants to seriously participate in a contest. In the contrary I think your idea is nice because it is a good method to rise up the prize of this contest and of future contests too, so nobody will pay the entire amount of the prize but it will be divided into participants.

In my opinion the contest should be divided into more steps. The first steps should adopt very strict criteria like theme, length, style, instruments…while the final step should be totally free. I guess this is a good way to demonstrate versatility and competence. The only drawback should be time.

I really hope this contest will be in summer.

I'm against the notion of an entrance fee because it's not a practical thing that everyone can do.


In my opinion the contest should be divided into more steps. The first steps should adopt very strict criteria like theme, length, style, instruments…while the final step should be totally free. I guess this is a good way to demonstrate versatility and competence. The only drawback should be time.

Could you elaborate more on this idea? I think you're on to something here... Maybe we could have some sort of preliminary round to weed out the amateurs and then have rounds to narrow the bunch down.

OH! The participants could maybe be challenged to take one of the compositions entered in the preliminaries and redo, elaborate, and reinterpret it. Just an idea.

I would say calling beginner or more inexperienced composers amateurs and saying they should be weeded out is a little insensitive. People at that stage need more encouraging referrals I think..Regarding the idea itself. REALLY GOOD! I like it. It reminds me of Smash Bros Melee tournament mode haha. Going through the rounds.

I would say calling beginner or more inexperienced composers amateurs and saying they should be weeded out is a little insensitive. People at that stage need more encouraging referrals I think..Regarding the idea itself. REALLY GOOD! I like it. It reminds me of Smash Bros Melee tournament mode haha. Going through the rounds.

Yeah, something like that, I guess.

And, in my defense, I was using the definition of amateur that means something like "someone who does something as a once-in-a-while hobby instead of a passionate following." $1000 for a composition contest should be given to someone who is really serious about music composition. I was in no way debasing inexperienced composers. Inexperienced and unpassionate are two different things.

And "weeding them out" is just an idiom I use. Negative connotation unintended.

I disagree with the concept of an entry fee. Maybe I'm cheap, or whatever, but this contest is something that Noir7 proposed, and he originally is going to dish out the 1-grand-- without the conception of us paying for a margin of it. I don't have the money for an entry fee and me probably ending up not writing something, since I'll be gone for the entire month of July doing music studies... and none pertain to composition. Although, I would have time, but it'd not be as much as I will in June and August. Summer is fine, but I'm speaking for everyone that a fee is out of the question. I'm willing to pay fees for college, but I am iffy about a contest due to how far it's going to take me.

If any of you (especially Noir7 himself) feel that I am farting on this contest, think again, I'm simply speaking my mind and putting things out.

So the next thing... rounds? I like the idea, except there would have to be a separate theme for it. If we are going to have a preliminary, already this contest is going to be BIG and fairly EPIC in itself. If the second round (the "main round") would be the--so called--big, 30-some minute, movement piece, and the preliminary would be the top three for the judging... then the preliminary round should be a short, 5 min. MAX piece (less epic? Or maybe a sketch of what the big piece will be based off of?). Basically, what I am trying to paint here:



Preliminary Round-- Write a basic piece which will act as an "overture" to what you are going to write for the second round. 3-6 minute guideline. 1 month to write & submit.

Stage Round-- Expand the themes, motifs, sounds, colors into your large-scale work. 20-30 minute guideline. 3 months to write & submit.

Final Reflection Round-- After the Stage Round is finished, the top three compositions will be presented and judged for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in the competition. The winner will get the big prize, while 2nd and 3rd will be highly recognized.


I like that idea, but no one else might... 'tis just a layout...


What are you guys going to spend the cash on if you won?

Go towards my music education expenses.

What are you guys going to spend the cash on if you won?

A donation to Ichigos.com.

I think having multiple rounds is a great idea too. I actually imagined the rounds to proceed a bit differently though.

Preliminary:
This I think should be a very general, "Can you write music," round. I disagree with kevin in saying that amatures should be weeded out is insensitive. Having people submitting any random work simply creates more work for the judge. Works submitted in this round and denied would not require any reply except, "Thank you for attempting but your work did not achieve the standards to proceed..." or something. I do suspect with a prize like this, people will likely join ichigos just to attempt to it. If words get out, there will be plenty of amature composers and maybe some professionals too. This round can be used as a number limit such as the top 15works submitted will be able to continue to the next round. (2-3weeks)

Round 1:
From this round on, it's competition. Depending on how many rounds you want, you can pick the elimination methods. Eg: cutting down the remaining competition by 2 each round until the final 3 or 2(depending on even or odd). The first few can be simple themes, mimicing styles or genres, time constraints of piece length, time constraint of composition period, instrument limits, ect. This is based on the notion of how well do you know music in general and how adaptive you are given specific requirements. These rounds should be quite short. (1-4weeks)

Semi-finals:
By here, the numbers should be cut down substantially. Now maybe it would be more appropriate to ask for orchestrations and more length if you want to. Maybe taking a duet or solo and asking the contestants to orchestrate it. (4-8weeks)

Finals: As there will likely be only 2-5 people left here depending on Noir's preferences if he likes having multiple rounds, this final round can ask for very lengthy compositions. Also, if any should be free, it should be this final round and maybe the preliminary round only. (8-16weeks)

As you can see, this method takes a long time before the final conclusion. However, as long as noir doesn't mind I think it would actually be able to find 1 winner who can truly call him/herself a distinguished composer and deserving of the prize.

A donation to Ichigos.com.

We've got a philanthropist here and we didn't know.


Mazeppa elaborated my idea before I could, ajamesu. I guess the three composing steps are fine. Nothing to add. I was thinking something like that. :)

I like KK's idea too. Multiple rounds placing groups of people (or pairs) to writing misc. pieces until the final round with a few people. It's like a bracket system and each game seems to actually be a different game that everyone writes a different piece for.

Neato, I say.

Well, my respect for Noir has gone up a thousand points or so. =D
Putting out that much money proves to me that he really does want to help the forum. That's quite a commitment.

Wonderful idea... I guess... for a contest. I'll just excuse myself from this though.

Creativity cannot be withdrawn from me forceably I've found out, so I'll just wait to I've got something written that's nice and submit that when there's a contest coinciding with the time of completion.

Well, you should try do everything in your power to draw it out because I don't think this will happen again too soon.

I may be wrong.

Creativity cannot be withdrawn from me forceably I've found out, so I'll just wait to I've got something written that's nice and submit that when there's a contest coinciding with the time of completion.

As you get better, you will have those moments more frequently and frequently. And eventually, you won't have anything that is forced out of you. It will all come naturally! :)

Keep it up!

Well, nothing helps creativity bloom like work. If you keep working on composing, you'll be able to write more "inspired" works more frequently.

::OFF TOPIC::

Why did the name of this thread suddenly change to "Noir7's $1005 contest"? O.o

Maybe he got the $1 entry fee from five people already.

1005 U.S. dollars = 99 900.5964 Japanese yen

Now it's $1003. Two people withdrew?

1005 U.S. dollars = 99 900.5964 Japanese yen

Let's get back to what we should talk about for ideas?

I think having multiple rounds is a great idea too. I actually imagined the rounds to proceed a bit differently though.

Preliminary:
This I think should be a very general, "Can you write music," round. I disagree with kevin in saying that amatures should be weeded out is insensitive. Having people submitting any random work simply creates more work for the judge. Works submitted in this round and denied would not require any reply except, "Thank you for attempting but your work did not achieve the standards to proceed..." or something. I do suspect with a prize like this, people will likely join ichigos just to attempt to it. If words get out, there will be plenty of amature composers and maybe some professionals too. This round can be used as a number limit such as the top 15works submitted will be able to continue to the next round. (2-3weeks)

Round 1:
From this round on, it's competition. Depending on how many rounds you want, you can pick the elimination methods. Eg: cutting down the remaining competition by 2 each round until the final 3 or 2(depending on even or odd). The first few can be simple themes, mimicing styles or genres, time constraints of piece length, time constraint of composition period, instrument limits, ect. This is based on the notion of how well do you know music in general and how adaptive you are given specific requirements. These rounds should be quite short. (1-4weeks)

Semi-finals:
By here, the numbers should be cut down substantially. Now maybe it would be more appropriate to ask for orchestrations and more length if you want to. Maybe taking a duet or solo and asking the contestants to orchestrate it. (4-8weeks)

Finals: As there will likely be only 2-5 people left here depending on Noir's preferences if he likes having multiple rounds, this final round can ask for very lengthy compositions. Also, if any should be free, it should be this final round and maybe the preliminary round only. (8-16weeks)

As you can see, this method takes a long time before the final conclusion. However, as long as noir doesn't mind I think it would actually be able to find 1 winner who can truly call him/herself a distinguished composer and deserving of the prize.

I second this idea; it's possible combine this idea with a few of the theme ideas members in mind. This could sort of be an American Idol thing, with a given time for one theme and so many people kicked off.

I'd prefer a group collaboration type of contest though. I mean sure $1000 is a huge prize, but even when shared among a group, it'll still be a fairly large amount. Not to mention a group contest done over a forum will be a bit more difficult than an individual one.

I personally am against any grouping. And is mostly for all the bad experiences that I had. And there was a competition like that before, I don't think is necessary to repeat the same for a big one where the composer can go for a massive work that they can put in the portfolio; claiming it as its own full creation. That is, If the interest is to have a portfolio and to present yourself as a professional composer searching jobs.

Like Ajamesu said this can be sort of be an American Idol thing, KK's idea (kk reminds me to kkk:cry:). Is actually what came to my mind when I read the idea. But the thing is, we are a very small community. I bet you there wont even be 15 entries, unless new people start to register in the forum or the dead members revive again for the prize. And if that is something to be avoided why not allow just the people that are already member in the forum and not allow any new one that register after the contest have started? Though it may sound unfair.

Changing the subject, if the entries are going to be like 30 mins. I just hope people do not sacrifice quality for quantity! It would be so tiring to hear a piece of 30 mins just having many dull parts and dragging on for want to make it massive in length. Though I am in favor with the "massive work", but there should be limits in the length; as how long as how short should be.

This could sort of be an American Idol thing, with a given time for one theme and so many people kicked off.

Please tell me that we get to turn this into a reality TV show! We can call it "American Idol: Composer's Edition" and get some famous but really mean composer to come judge us. I bet Andrew Lloyd Webber would do it! Oh wait, he's already doing a reality show...

(kk reminds me to kkk:cry:).

Ouch:heh: I know my cat is white so it looks like a mask with 2 holes but geeze. I'm jk...:lol:

I dunno dude. well even if we do get say 15entries. That just means that we can eliminate the preliminaries and go straight into round 1. If our cutoff is 20 and we only get 15, that just means that everyone is within the cutoff and everyone passes. Now if we only get like 5...well...lets hope we get more cause then the competition won't be much fun.

What I'm worried about is that if we make the competition too long and hard that some of us would just drop out. After all, think about the competition before Noir7's $100 Competition....

I am also against grouping. It's unfair to those of us in different timezones, especially if, say, two collaborating composers live next to each other and work together in person and two other composers live half a world apart and find many difficulties meeting on MSN at the same time. :P

$1005? Maybe Noir7's just being funny. If I threw a contest, it'd be worth $1031.07 or some random number, haha.

I'm all for a simple contest. Everybody should get a fair chance at participating, no need for early eliminations and rounds. Why can't the judge(s) simply listen to all the entries at the very end and then just pick the winner from that? No matter how many good or bad entries are out there, there will still be a winner chosen.

$1005? Maybe Noir7's just being funny. If I threw a contest, it'd be worth $1031.07 or some random number, haha.

I'm all for a simple contest. Everybody should get a fair chance at participating, no need for early eliminations and rounds. Why can't the judge(s) simply listen to all the entries at the very end and then just pick the winner from that? No matter how many good or bad entries are out there, there will still be a winner chosen.

Agreed. :thumb:

Hiya everyone. Long time no talk. :P Been lurking a lot lately.

I like the idea of rounds and elimination like American Idol. As for grouping, I think that should be optional. I mean, personally I'd really like to collaborate with a friend of mine.

(Wyvern! Hey!!)

You know, I like the simplicity element too, but I also like that American Idol approach too. Grouping should be optional or eliminated, but not required at all.

In the end, no matter what, it's Noir7's position, and he might just throw a curve-ball since we all love these ideas, maybe he wants to set us off-guard?

All I say to Noir7 is, "Have fun." XD

Yeah, a simple contest would be easier to manage, but with rounds, it would be more challenging and take more dedication and motivation. It would be taken more seriously, and would be more fun to compose and judge. ^_^

Kinda off topic, but why is the thread title constantly changing?

The question has already been asked a couple times, and we still haven't gotten an answer. Probably just Noir7 having fun messing with our heads. XD

I think it's that the amount of yen being paid for the tournament was decided at the start, so either the yen has increased, or the US dollar decreased.

I'm probably wrong.

I like the reality TV show idea. "The Web's Next Top Composer!" and "Internet Idol" are my suggestions for titles.

I second Al. I'm kind of preferring a simple contest too.

<The motion has been moved and seconded.>

Motion to accept by acclamation.

Simple competition ~ \o\
Simple competition~ \o/
Simple competition yeaaah!~ /o/

I don't have the stamina or willpower for anything else!
I guess the question is, "does Noir want to see who has the most free time, or the most talent?"
I think a longer competition will mean less competitors, which could be good or bad, depending on where you stand, I guess. I guess I guess I guess.

Simple is good. Long is good.

Either way, the prize will be awarded accordingly.

I forgot one more good thing: Noir7.

I'm not worried about what the contest is either. I'm happy to do anything, as long as it isn't death metal or hip-hop haha.

(cough) lets have a hip-hop contest (cough)
Anyways. when is this thing gonna start, if ever.

^

I'm sorry. But I thought I would never say this.

Your post fails.

Seconded.

Thirded

Ended.

Alright, don't let this topic go to the dumps.

Alright, I think I've got an idea for a piece for this. If we just need to submit one thing... it'll be this.

So yeah.... changed my mind. Wut bout it? sup, everyone!

So why don't you guys come together as a community and present the idea of the contest to me, and I'll see. I'm really busy right now and will be even busier the upcoming month, so I will probably ask some trusted fellow to help me set things up. Anyway, the competition will start when we have everything cleared, and judging from most people's requests the contest will be a time-spanning one starting in the near future.

well what ever happens, I hope its entirety happens in the summer. Then I'll have time to actually attempt this one.

How about we get a few clearly-defined ideas, then set up a separate thread for a poll?

OK well I'm going to suggest: Do what you would like to do and make it as good as you can! A Free Competition.

I completely disagree with that; it's amateur and just rubbish.

I am going to present my own idea for the competition-- great detail to a T.

Expect it in the next few days or so.

This is my summarized version of what I prefer. It's just a copy and paste of what I wrote before minus the fat.

Preliminary: (May or may not be necessary depending on number of participants)
This I think should be a very general, "Can you write music," round. Works submitted in this round and denied would not require any reply except, "Thank you for attempting but your work did not achieve the standards to proceed..." or something. I do suspect with a prize like this, people will likely join ichigos just to attempt to it. If words get out, there will be plenty of amature composers and maybe some professionals too. This round can be used as a number limit such as the top 15works submitted will be able to continue to the next round. (2-3weeks)

Round 1:
From this round on, it's competition. Depending on how many rounds you want, you can pick the elimination methods. Eg: cutting down the remaining competition by 2 each round until the final 3 or 2(depending on even or odd). The first few can be simple themes, mimicing styles or genres, time constraints of piece length, time constraint of composition period, instrument limits, ect. This is based on the notion of how well do you know music in general and how adaptive you are given specific requirements. These rounds should be quite short. (1-4weeks)

Semi-finals:
By here, the numbers should be cut down substantially. Now maybe it would be more appropriate to ask for orchestrations and more length if you want to. Maybe taking the same duet or solo piece and asking the contestants to orchestrate it would test the contestants creativity in a different way. (4-8weeks)

Finals: As there will likely be only 2-5 people left here depending on Noir's preferences, this final round can ask for very lengthy compositions. Also, if any should be free, it should be this final round and maybe the preliminary round ONLY. (8-16weeks)

My point of view is simple. I don't want the winner to win by luck. I want to be able to see through the rounds that he truly are a great composer and that there can be no argument that he deserved the prize. Someone raised that multiple rounds will require more dedication. This is a very good point and is an aspect of necessity for a great composer.

A short, recent, unperformed, unpublished, original orchestral work (no soloists). Only works that will not have been performed or read by a professional orchestra, nor received a public performance prior to the ending date are eligible. Feedback from an esteemed panel of mentor composers.

The composition has to include some (but not all) of the following:

Sequences
Ornamentation
Figured bass
Solo/tutti sections
Pedal point
Suspension
Syncopation and
Modulations to related keys.


Length - The real challange
Minimum – 8 bars
Maximum – 1 and a half minutes.

But my specialty is choral music... :'(

which is why my final round is free form. Also, there could be any number of chance to write choral between round 1 and semi finals. I only outlined the framework.

Right, I was only commenting on Porsche's suggestion.

A short, recent, unperformed, unpublished, original orchestral work (no soloists). Only works that will not have been performed or read by a professional orchestra, nor received a public performance prior to the ending date are eligible. Feedback from an esteemed panel of mentor composers.

The composition has to include some (but not all) of the following:

Sequences
Ornamentation
Figured bass
Solo/tutti sections
Pedal point
Suspension
Syncopation and
Modulations to related keys.


Length - The real challange
Minimum – 8 bars
Maximum – 1 and a half minutes.

I don't think we should be restricted in terms of instrumentation. What if we'd prefer to compose for a wind ensemble or a percussion ensemble? What if some of us are better-versed and experienced in orchestrals than others? What if orchestrals are not our strength?

I prefer something akin to what KK proposed.

Umm... Porsche.... Figured bass is a way of analyzing or writing the chord progression. It's not a technique. If you mean a basso continuo or alberti bass, maybe... but umm... figured bass is a kind of notation.

What you've listed is some really classical compositional tools and techniques (actually, we're heading towards baroque with some of them), but umm... this is the modern era. Pedal Point is kinda cliche, "figured bass" technique isn't really used, and modulation doesn't have to be to a related key (in fact in class we just learned about modulation to far away keys).

I like the idea of maybe doing a full orchestra piece... but at the same time I don't. Sounds like you want it cause you're in the midst of writing such a piece <_< however, it does sound like a task worthy of $1,000. At the same time I think the competition should be open to a bit more lenient instrument selection. Someone may want to so a piano sonata or a string concerto. That shouldn't be out of the question in my opinion.



I don't have an opinion on multiple rounds yet... but it requires more time from participants. Let's just be quite clear I think a good number of us are working, or going to be at school (if this prolongs into September) and really might not have the time to pull out 3 or 4 masterpieces out of our bums in the course of a summer. I understand the desire to weed out "the unworthy" but then there's also NOT having a contest. :\ Ok so maybe I do have an opinion on this subject...

This is my summarized version of what I prefer. It's just a copy and paste of what I wrote before minus the fat.

Preliminary: (May or may not be necessary depending on number of participants)
This I think should be a very general, "Can you write music," round. Works submitted in this round and denied would not require any reply except, "Thank you for attempting but your work did not achieve the standards to proceed..." or something. I do suspect with a prize like this, people will likely join ichigos just to attempt to it. If words get out, there will be plenty of amature composers and maybe some professionals too. This round can be used as a number limit such as the top 15works submitted will be able to continue to the next round. (2-3weeks)

Round 1:
From this round on, it's competition. Depending on how many rounds you want, you can pick the elimination methods. Eg: cutting down the remaining competition by 2 each round until the final 3 or 2(depending on even or odd). The first few can be simple themes, mimicing styles or genres, time constraints of piece length, time constraint of composition period, instrument limits, ect. This is based on the notion of how well do you know music in general and how adaptive you are given specific requirements. These rounds should be quite short. (1-4weeks)

Semi-finals:
By here, the numbers should be cut down substantially. Now maybe it would be more appropriate to ask for orchestrations and more length if you want to. Maybe taking the same duet or solo piece and asking the contestants to orchestrate it would test the contestants creativity in a different way. (4-8weeks)

Finals: As there will likely be only 2-5 people left here depending on Noir's preferences, this final round can ask for very lengthy compositions. Also, if any should be free, it should be this final round and maybe the preliminary round ONLY. (8-16weeks)

My point of view is simple. I don't want the winner to win by luck. I want to be able to see through the rounds that he truly are a great composer and that there can be no argument that he deserved the prize. Someone raised that multiple rounds will require more dedication. This is a very good point and is an aspect of necessity for a great composer.

I'd be happy with something like this :) but should it be that long? I'm not too sure...

well, the minimum time required assuming 4 rounds before the semi-finals would be 16 weeks. Even if prelimineries are required, that still means 18-19 weeks. People did ask for longer time to complete for a 1000 competition. Even if this was to take 6 month, I think I'll still be up for it. Besides, other than the finalists, you probably won't need to spend every waking hour correcting your music. You may not be given the opportunity to do so. deadlines are STRICTLY applied. if round 2 says must be completed in 1 week, then that is a must. If your 10min piece isn't fully complete yet, thats too bad, and you probably shouldn't have chosen to write a 10min piece. Lesson learned. Its the name of the game. There will also be short breaks between each rounds since the judging needs to be done. No one is watching down from your shoulders making you finish and i'm sure not all of us spends every waking hour doing homework or working everyday of the week.

I know the moment I said that, someone will go "Actually...I do...". To those smart asses, I know you don't. If you did, it won't matter if you were given 3month or 2 weeks, cause you won't have time anyways.

That's just ridiculous. There are circumstances in which I can afford it, but cannot pay it online. Since it was just a suggested opinion, I'd say no fees.

What are you guys going to spend the cash on if you won? I'd recommend spending that money on a small personal DAW studio if you love composing music. That way you'd have a better chance at winning the next round. It could be a million dollar prize :lol:

I'd have to agree.
DAW's are a great way to spend cash. :P

This is just some crazy idea that I got randomly just now but...anyone up for the idea of making the final round's theme to be "Ichigos". Write a piece for Ichigos!

I think the pink would inspire me in a strange way. Though I have thought it.

FORWARD LETTER

To who it may concern,

The hefty prize for Noir7's new composition competition is a large one. It's one-thousand dollars-- let me say that again: ONE-THOUSAND DOLLARS ($1,000). That's a lot of money. So let's put this in perspective, the last competition was worth $100 and we were quite surprised and motivated to do so, but let's get real for a moment, do you really think we should work as hard for the $1,000 as we did for the $100? Absolutely NOT. It's 10 times more the prize of the last contest. Therefore, to be perfectly blunt, we should work [at least] 10 times more dedicated/creative/convicted/motivated than the last one.

I was pretty unimpressed with a lot of the entires in the last competition, and the ones that stood out, stood out. All this talk of a free competition is a fishy one. We “musicians” have this tendency that they shouldn't be tied down to anything and that everything and anything they create is some masterpiece that God himself gave to you in your highly-talented heart for music. Ehem... that's some bull. Music has a lot more structure than you think, people, in fact, everything can be analyzed as scientific and music can be VERY and EXTREMELY scientific. Yes, it is an “art” but don't go giving me that it's this freedom and that's all it is. There's too much too much to call it one thing, it drives me (and some of my contemporaries) insane at times when we can't find the answer.

Anyway, here's my point, composer's now adays get fame or whatever for their work with media. Movies, Games, Videos, etc. etc. etc. It's not like these composers were approached by producers and directors and asked them, “Oh, you are such an amazing composer! Please, please write something for us!” No, it doesn't work that way, and it never will. People are approached and appointed and commissioned and are expected to make something to fit and add to the experience. Even if you want to get published, publishers will revise and edit your music. You could start out with 11 minutes of music, but they'll cut it down to 8 or even 5 minutes... this is not a JOKE. I am not saying this happens 100% of the time, but it's not like you can write a “perfect composition” that publishers or movie-makers will look at and expect everybody to like it. Not gonna happen.

INTRODUCTION & JUDGING

So, for this competition I propose a large competition. $1,000 is A LOT of cash, and I wouldn't even award it to anybody who hasn't proved themselves worthy. As we all know a first-impression isn't very accurate, and it takes people time to like something (as in relation to music). We may love I the first time around, then hate it after a few listens and vice versa. We need more considerable judging for this competition. One BIG and FINAL judge, (Noir7) but maybe we need a few other [qualified] judges; People who CAN be critics and analyze a piece for what it is. And another thing? We should take the “American Idol” approach, but edit this. Eliminations are not exactly going to happen; we will go on a rounds “point scale” and add them up in the final round. People shall be graded on this, and will be awarded either 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 points in each area:



Melody-- The melody is obvious, stated, or there is some kind of motif or theme that we can all follow and enjoy.

Harmony-- Harmonies give us the backbone of the music. They build chords, progressions and give us that feeling of unity in a piece.

Rhythm-- Motifs, beats, rhythms, organization and-- most important –time keep the music flowing and together. This doesn't mean we need a funky beat, but the music must make sense to the listener and randomness doesn't serve as good or even creative rhythm.

Orchestration-- This doesn't apply to skill or how well you know Rimsky-Korsakov's Principles of Orchestration, rather, that you use your instrument/s in an effective way to give us an acceptable sound. You might also want to think of this as instrumentation.

Style-- Jazz? Classical? Pop? Rock? Romantic? WE as the listener have to have a feeling of style; a feeling of knowing. Staying true to the style and convincing us that you understand what you wrote.

Integrity-- This topic is linked with Style in the sense that we have to know that you, the composer, understand and can call you composition-- at the VERY LEAST --decent, able to listen to and that it makes musical and sense... scientifically and artistically. A good ear is a strict ear.

Creativity-- We all know what this means. With all the “guidelines” or “rules” (as some see them as) we need not forget that we have to be true to ourselves and be creative, original and just have fun.


That's 35 points that you can earn each round. Let me explain the “grading” system now:



35 points = S
30-34 points = A
25-29 points = B
20-24 points = C
15-19 points = D
14 or less points = F and [i]possible elimination*

*If an entry receives an F for a round, they can be put up for elimination. The judge/s will consider the composer's works so far and see if they deserve to be eliminated, or given a second chance to participate in the next round.


This grading scale is loosely based off the Ford's system, which is used in many schools worldwide. I have negative views towards it in schools, however, in this competition it is very reliable. Keep in mind that this is an over-time competition; you may do bad in a round or two, but you can certainly make up for it in other rounds by really trying your best-- HOWEVER --let's not forget that you could do good jobs in the competition, but when it comes down to the placing in the end, you could be surpassed by somebody who had failed once or twice.

The competition is based on consistency and creativity due to what is given to them. To truly call yourself a composer, you need to be able to not only excel and be advanced-proficient if your strong area of competition, but be able to write anything that is known to us. Why study, listen, write, love music that's written a thousand years ago? Why do we listen to study it if it was written one day ago? It's music and we love it. Let's show each other that we can.

THE ROUNDS

Now lets get to the meat of the competition. We know how we'll be graded and looked upon, but the talk of rounds hasn't been established. Well, here we go!



Round 1: Starting out small...

For the first round you will be composing a short piece for either a solo instrument or a duet (possibly an accompanist is the second player?). There is no specified style, so it is completely up to you. Make sure you do your best to use the instrument to it's real capabilities and if it is a duet that you make use of both instruments (compliment each other). As a guideline, keep it around or under 5 minutes.

Length: 3 weeks


Round 2: I've brought some friends this time!

This round will showing us how you are able to write music with 3-8 musicians/instruments. Like the first round, the style is up to you and we suggest, as a guideline, to keep it around or under 7 minutes.

Length: 3 weeks


Round 3: Hittin' the club... or the ballroom?

Who doesn't like to dance? Well, maybe not everyone likes to, but nearly everyone can dance, even if there moves are laughable. Write us a tune that has a dance-flair to it. It might be a waltz, a tango, polonaise or even a thrashing-mosh pit jam! Whatever you choose, make sure you're able to back-it-up that it is of a 'danceable' style, or originates from one. Keep it at the average of 5 minutes or so.

Length: 4 weeks


Round 4: You're just a show-off!

A quick round, show us what you can do to make a virtuoso out of an instrumentalist. This piece will show off a pianists fluid fingers or possibly a violinists dexterity. Whatever the instrument is, show us you can write for an instrument. Keep this one short; 2-3 minutes is fine.

Length: 2 weeks


Round 5: Keep on movin'!

From the early days of the composers, they wrote suites and movements to their symphonies. Even nowadays people write many compositions (either small or large) to make up a large work or even a portfolio. Write a total of 3-5 pieces which, in some way, link, however, they should contrast and not sound the same. You can find your little ways of how they can connect to each other. Each piece can be around 3-6 minutes in length.

Length: 6 weeks


Round 6: Ewww... CLASSICAL!?

Alright, alright, we all know the world's view to Classical or any “instrumental” types of music. I am not going to spend the time to describe it, because you all know how it is discriminated in pop-culture. We need to hear some rock, pop or even jazz! Put something that'll get a #1 spot on Billboard's Songs of the Year! And to make it more authentic, keep it in the range of 4 minutes.

Length: 4 weeks


Round 7: The Concert Stage!

This is what you've be working for all your life. You're at Carnegie Hall and you're about to perform the work you've had in your arsenal since you were humming the piece's melodies in your childhood. You may call this an “epic” work of somekind, but show us that you can link your grandeur ideas together in a big piece. We're talking big here, a good 10 minutes worth-- but remember we we've already stated about linking your ideas. Time is the last of your worries, so just keep going and going until it's all out.

Length: 4 weeks


Round 8: You.

We've been wanting you to show us what you can do by giving you guidelines, now write anything you please. There is no time limit and nothing to abide by but the deadline. Good luck.

Length: 4 weeks


It's a long competition, I won't kid you. But won't that make it all the more satisfying working for the 1 grand? Let's not forget all the critique you've gotten over the past 30 or so weeks. Notice that nothing is longer than 4 weeks, but notice that everything is given to you before you need to submit it. You could be finished with your first three rounds in two weeks and be set for a month or two of the competition, but we don't suggest that. Use all the time you're given and take advantage of it and what the judges tell and score you.

IN CONCLUSION

Overall, this competition is one that takes a lot of work on both sides of the contestants and the judges, but everything will be worth it. The composer's get better and a prize (at least one lucky writer!) and the judges get better at analyzing and critiquing others... oh, and Noir7 can be happy that his $1,000 will be rightfully awarded.

This competition is based of consistency and integrity. Hope to hear more from you all and, of course, your opinions.

Sincerely,

Seth

P.S. Dismiss any grammar and spelling mistakes. XD

The pink?

Yes, the Forum's colour plus the name Ichigos. I already heard music in my head that would fit it in my own strange perspective, lol.

Edit: I read Mazepa's idea and I like how detailed it was, I mostly like it all. And the grade thing sounds like fun, even if I find it hard to give a numeric score. I don't know about eliminations and other things that I have in mind.

Nice idea of a long contest Mazeppa, but I think there are too much rounds. Also when it comes to write many pieces for a contest how we can be sure piece was written for this contest and not previously? We should rely on partecipants honesty? I guess the short compositions terms,the number of compositions that must be submitted, the prize are quite high for avoiding the temptation of being unfair. So I would suggest again a sort of summer vacation contest. Yes, I'm speaking in my favour. ;)


I like the idea of maybe doing a full orchestra piece... but at the same time I don't. Sounds like you want it cause you're in the midst of writing such a piece <_<
You caught the point! :P

I like the idea of cumulative points. I feel sorry for Noir7 and the amount of listening + comments he will have to write if no one was eliminated.

@Mazeppa: If there is a contest that freaking long I am NOT participating. There are too many other contests out there that would actually get me some good exposure in an area that I'm good at for this one to be worth my time and effort. I seriously doubt Noir7 will go for something like this anyway, though, because it's so pretentious.

Personally, I think we shouldn't force any sort of style/instrumentation/etc.; there are too many people here that have strengths in a very specific style or with very specific instruments (strengths, I might add, which outweigh some other composers' abilities to compose mediocre pieces in any style/instrumentation) who will be shortchanged in most of the rounds. Furthermore, I seriously doubt that more than 4 people would actually end up entering because of the insane requirements of the competition (I know I wouldn't).

Personally, I think we shouldn't force any sort of style/instrumentation/etc.; there are too many people here that have strengths in a very specific style or with very specific instruments (strengths, I might add, which outweigh some other composers' abilities to compose mediocre pieces in any style/instrumentation) who will be shortchanged in most of the rounds. Furthermore, I seriously doubt that more than 4 people would actually end up entering because of the insane requirements of the competition (I know I wouldn't).

I'm not sure if I'm willing to follow for 30weeks unless I'm one of the top ones. Even if 30 people were to enter at the start, if they see that they're not doing well, I'm sure they will leave. Might as well eliminate them early then giving them false hope and making the people with higher scores feel better about themselves :(

...what did that have to do with what I said?

The point of a contest is to challenge skills and to hone on new ones to adjust to the situation. A complete freedom I do not see a challenge. None at all.

The other challenge would be the time. When you have college, job and other things to do, there will be a moment that you won't be allowed to do something and will have to put first what is the most important. Unless we closed in a big house and we are free there to waste or no our time. XD

The point of a contest is to challenge skills and to hone on new ones to adjust to the situation. A complete freedom I do not see a challenge. None at all.

Complete freedom isn't necessarily what I'm suggesting. I just think we need to find a way that everyone can put their best foot forward for this contest.

Example: Would a star soccer player need to try to be on the Olympic basketball team because he needs a challenge? Would a man who is an incredibly wealthy businessman need to go to law school just because he need a challenge? Very unlikely! There's always new goals and challenges that can help you grow within the area that you are good at.

Edit: I'm also not saying that it's not good to try new things or become good at them; I'm simply saying I think that we should try to have a contest in which the best composer wins rather than the one who can compose in more styles.

It's not a matter of if they can compose is many styles, but how they can adjust to them and make them original. My jazz isn't typical jazz, but nonetheless it's jazz and it's mine, unique, just like any of my other compositions including rock, "classical" and the like.

It all has that "my" vibe to it all. It has nothing to do with quantity. Your comparisons of athletes and businessmen are further off than what I am suggesting. You do not go to college to be a composition major to learn how to write in your strength, you learn about everything. You write in the styles of the great composers, even if you aren't proficient at all in them, you give it a shot and you make it your own.

I know the thing comes in with school, jobs, etc. I am busy myself, but I don't care at all if people have to deal with that since no one adjusted the last three compositions to my schedule; this thread was to propose ideas about the next contest and I gave it. Your reason is unjustifiable.

It all has that "my" vibe to it all. It has nothing to do with quantity. Your comparisons of athletes and businessmen are further off than what I am suggesting. You do not go to college to be a composition major to learn how to write in your strength, you learn about everything. You write in the styles of the great composers, even if you aren't proficient at all in them, you give it a shot and you make it your own.


1) you're still talking about different styles even if you can making it your own.

2) even if a composer knows how to compose in all those styles, that doesn't mean that he's really good at any of them. You're still missing my point.

(Man, I am really argumentative. Sorry if I am rude in any way)

Obviously, there are conflicting views as to what a good composer is -- adaptable to different styles, or well-versed in his/her unique style? Or maybe how well he/she can adapt his/her unique style to any genre of music?

Once this conflict is resolved, this discussion might actually lead somewhere. I suggest a poll, and we can derive our plans for the competition from that poll.

A poll of what? We can't have a poll if we're still thinking up the ideas that would *make* the poll!


Anywho, the more and more I read what people think this "high and mighty" contest should be like, the more and more I'm thinking "Screw this". I've got a summer to find work, hopefully making money to not starve in college, and to work on my own personal projects. If you think I'm gonna enter a contest that has me submitting multiple full length full orchestra compositions.... screw it. There are better more productive and worthwhile things for me to do.

So yeah, I can't be the only one who has that thought process. I wouldn't mind writing one piece for a competition and letting it ride, but I'd be damned if I was gonna bite off more than I could chew with an unimportant competition and waste my summer. Methinks we should start suggesting less grandiose ideas.

Yeah, that was definitely part of what I was trying to say. I totally agree with that.

Furthermore, how good a composer is has nothing to with any of those options, in my opinion, ajamesu, but is defined by something deeper; there are brilliant composers with each of those talents.

Yeah, but I saw that most ideas for that composition contests derived from what they defined as a good composer, so I just thought that if our thought processes for a contest were centered on a unifying belief, then this would be easier. Whatever floats your boat.

And I agree, it should be something akin to KK's and Mazeppa's propositions, but something more feasible (leaning towards KK's).

Yeah, but I saw that most ideas for that composition contests derived from what they defined as a good composer, so I just thought that if our thought processes for a contest were centered on a unifying belief, then this would be easier.

True; perhaps we should attempt to get closer to the core of what makes a great composer. I propose that the greatest composers have the ability to use music and the simplicity/complexity therein as a means to express themselves successfully, and go beyond the theory of music to create something new and exciting for themselves, the performers, and the audience.

I think that this core element of composing is something which many composers (such as Mark Northam, from what I can tell) forget, or are forced to neglect (probably partially by the ignorance of modern society and, more specifically, movie directors towards the true essence of music). For this reason, they will never be as successful as the great composers who have been able to achieve this manner of expression (such as John Williams). For this reason, I feel that the soundtracks of today are much less effective than those of the past, with few exceptions.

Based off of my definition [which is obviously only my opinion, but which I am fairly certain Noir7 would agree with considering the conditions of his last contest], exact parameters for orchestration, instrumentation, form, and other similar concrete requirements are irrelevant to the greatness of a "composer" (although if this was a contest to find the best "orchestrator", that would be a different story). Therefore, I propose that we use parameters which are a little more abstract, such as composing to fit a given theme, emotion, or poem, so that every composer, no matter what their compositional strengths, will have an equal chance to excel.

True; perhaps we should attempt to get closer to the core of what makes a great composer. I propose that the greatest composers have the ability to use music and the simplicity/complexity therein as a means to express themselves successfully, and go beyond the theory of music to create something new and exciting for themselves, the performers, and the audience.

Based off of my definition [which is obviously only my opinion, but which I am fairly certain Noir7 would agree with considering the conditions of his last contest], exact parameters for orchestration, instrumentation, form, and other similar concrete requirements are irrelevant to the greatness of a "composer" (although if this was a contest to find the best "orchestrator", that would be a different story). Therefore, I propose that we use parameters which are a little more abstract, such as composing to fit a given theme, emotion, or poem, so that every composer, no matter what their compositional strengths, will have an equal chance to excel.

I agree completely. I think it should come down to a more simple task which is to make a great composition and give Noir7 a heads up about what you're doing, so he can create a criteria that is based upon your unique song choice.

Eg. The song I wrote on my post, the black dragon one. It uses Asian folk instruments and also rock instruments. One of thing's he can assess me on is the balance between the two types of instruments and how well they mix together in the composition. Or if KaitouKudou submitted a big orchestral piece he would/could be assessed on more traditional things such as orchestration, harmony etc. Deathraider, if your submitted a Choral, you could be judged on lyrics, harmony etc.

Eg. The song I wrote on my post, the black dragon one. It uses Asian folk instruments and also rock instruments. One of thing's he can assess me on is the balance between the two types of instruments and how well they mix together in the composition. Or if KaitouKudou submitted a big orchestral piece he would/could be assessed on more traditional things such as orchestration, harmony etc. Deathraider, if your submitted a Choral, you could be judged on lyrics, harmony etc.

That's fine.

@deathraider-- As a matter of fact, I do think you get overly-defensive on things and you get to the point where it's rude. You do not only disagree with things, but then you also submit your own idea in the picture and COMPARE the two. I feel offended, but I commend you for your 'apology.' Don't worry about it here on out.

Getting back to things, the section which I have quoted is a nice pick. The entries should be able to pick the form and then just go from there (and by form I mean, orchestral, solo, instrumental/solo voice, sonata). Although, it is too abstract for my taste. If we are to choose this, then we must disregard the other ideas (such as the BIG contests or the SIMPLER contests) and agree on either a single-rounded one or multiple rounds, and how many if the latter is picked?

That's our first step.

I say if we must do more than 1 round, we should do no more than 2.

BTW, just so we're clear, I'm not apologizing for my ideas or opinions, just for expressing them rudely. I don't feel that in this case I'm being defensive, only truthful. Sometimes it frustrates me when people completely miss the point of what I say, though... :hey:

Edit: Also, please explain how comparing ideas and advocating my own offensive (maybe I misunderstood). Quite frankly, I find it offensive that you find my ideas offensive. XD

Also I'm not partecipating if this contest it's so long. I still got something called a social life somewhere. I seriously doubt anybody can give this effort for this long time. I will try to think something different this weekend.

OK well I'll put in my final suggestion. We have 2 rounds, both involve submitting pieces of any kind and being assessed based on the song's style(s), as I mentioned in my other post.

The aim of the second round is to best your first piece. Whoever shows the most improvement in their second submission wins. So it doesn't focus on the actual "better" composition, but on who has flourished between submission A and B the most as a composer. Maybe even as a person?

The only problems I can see is people not liking this idea because it's not focusing on who's composition is more impressive and also because.....I FORGOT! I'll edit when I remember haha! x_x

If I could, I would give Deathraider and Mazeppa both the $1000 for lending their time and effort in discussing this competition this thoroughly. Frankly, I don't care that much about the actual format of the contest, but I am glad to see that two of Ichigo's Forum's more prominent composers give a damn.

Keep discussing, I read every single comment.

Maybe a musical interpretation of story or quote, similar to how Deathraider interpreted that bit from Tess of the d'Urbervilles.

What about each composer to write a very small story or just a text and recreate it musically, like ajamesu said. With a minimum of 4 minutes.

Or Noir7 to provide the small story or text and each one recreate it in their own way. And if people want rounds why not just have 2 rounds with contrasting themes of 1 min and half then the text recreation?

It sounds simple but having a minimum of 4 minutes is already making the composer to not compose something short and to dedicate more time to his piece or song. And the text should have various atmosphere that can make the compose to go from one mood to another, It can even be took as movements under one whole track.

And about the two rounds, well if you wish to eliminate these that seem to not put their efforts with a piece of 1:30 then eliminate them? Because if they did not motivate enough with 1:30 then they may do worst when the long one comes.

Some idea for the rounds it can be took from Mazeppa's idea. Two contrasting theme would be good like a dance theme and a love theme, or any other themes. Plus restrictions can be in these two rounds for prove the composer can think out of the box or can handle things. And to let free the story/text recreation with the only limitation that must have more than 4mins of music.

Here's my two cents on what defines a great composer. To do this, I'd like to draw parallels between a great composer and a great musician.

A great musician is someone that can bring something new or different to the stage. Many of us have our own preferred tastes in music and we tend to listen to the same things over and over again. This is OK. It's what we like which is the whole point to listening to music: you like it. If you didn't like it, why would you listen to it? Anywho, when someone can do some kind of variation on things we like to hear, it's like squeezing lemon into your water. It jazzes things up and you like. The same can be said about a composer. A great composer is not afraid to try new things and go out of norms we the listener have set for ourselves.

A composer, like a great musician, can take criticism with a grain of salt. They are able to look at the reviews they have been given, think about them, and decide for themselves what really they can truthfully take from it and make themselves better in the process.

A great composer can please a variety of people who listen to different genres of music. A musician must be versed in different styles of music because when it comes down to public performance, the musician understands people like to listen to different things. They know that they may have to play jazz during the day and in an orchestral setting in the evening when they themselves would rather be playing rock. The same goes for a composer. A great composer must be diverse in the genres that he/she can write in to appease the many people who like many different things. That doesn't mean that he/she doesn't specialize in a genre and is just as great with any other genre. No. They may be the best at the genre they write for, but when the cards are laid out on the table, they are capable of writing something in a different genre that people wouldn't mind listening to.

A great composer is humble. They do not gock in their success or complain in their failures. They take things for what they are and accept them. They are willing to spread their knowledge and success with others and seek to help better others. They are admired among their peers not only because of their great accomplishments, but because they try to make their peers look better than themselves.

A great composer has their compositions... performed. Many times we here at Ichigo's go the distance to write our compositions, but we don't follow through and get our composition performed. Performance is the final stage in the cycle of composition. It is only when you can get the performer to think and feel the same way you did writing the score as they do when they perform the score that the composer can truly grasp a better feel of composition and learn exactly what works and what doesn't. You can only learn so much yourself, the rest you must learn through trial and error in performance.

The most important of all these things is that a great composer LOVES what they do. They want to express their passion with others who feel the same way. This love for composition will always show through in their works and will touch many people.

So my fellow composers of Ichigo's, what can we take from this and how can we take it and use it on our forum even outside this contest? I call us to action! Aim to be the best you can be and always have fun with it even in your failures!

(P.S. Woo! Uni. is out for the summer! I'll actually be able to be active now in the evenings and weekends! Woot! Engineering homework is so much fun! :heh: )

I adore PorscheGTIII's enthusiasm! XD Seriously, I do.

I will not give up on participating in this discussion of the contest, but I already stated what we NEED to do. We are done passing around opinions on two things 1) Rounds, length and material of the contest and entries 2) The Meaning of a Great Composer.

As I stated before,



Getting back to things, the section which I have quoted is a nice pick. The entries should be able to pick the form and then just go from there (and by form I mean, orchestral, solo, instrumental/solo voice, sonata). Although, it is too abstract for my taste. If we are to choose this, then we must disregard the other ideas (such as the BIG contests or the SIMPLER contests) and agree on either a single-rounded one or multiple rounds, and how many if the latter is picked?

That's our first step.


So... make a poll thread anybody? Or may just get a group feeling in this thread without NEW proposals

A ) Simple Competition

B ) Multiple-Round Competition

C ) Meh... Further Discussion

Meh? Because, people need to find a freakin' common ground on things. People are STILL putting in their two cents and are not giving enough proposal. We have these ideas that are unorganized and need to be noticed as if the competition is actually in action. This is why I spent so much time developing my draft for the competition instead of saying, "Oh we could do rounds like this, or something and then maybe we could just pick from one of the two..." We aren't getting ANYWHERE at that speed, at least now we definitely aren't. We're on the 10th page already and we haven't come to any conclusions as a group, let alone, individuals. I can, however, that more people aren't in favor of a long competition, because they declare they have social lives and won't commit to it. So, because these so-called "composers" are too lazy, we need to cut it down a bit. However, I would feel guilty winning a single-submission contest for $1,000 that's a free theme. Two words:

Bull Spit.

If you want to detest MY ideas, then I'll detest yours and will NOT enter the competition like that (which is a partial reason for my absence in the last contest).

To add, this thread has nothing to do with a greatness of a composer of whatever, this is "Noir7's $1000 contest" thread (Therefore, I've made a separate thread for our 'new' topic).

Let's get back on track. Thank-you everybody.

I'd like to both agree and disagree with your thought on what makes a great composer as it relates to this competition. Yeah, a bigger discussion of this should warrant it's own thread which you have started, but I feel these ideals discussed are the most important part of the contest: the judging. We all seem to have some kind of different yet in many ways common idea of what we would expect the winning composition should be. If we can define the qualities we all envision a great composer, or in our case the winning composer, would have then we are able to define the criteria for which this contest should be judged upon. No matter form the contest itself may take, these qualities should be the back-bone to the contest and contests to come.

Moving on, I would like us to focus on option...

A) Simple Competition


Another thing I would like to be considered is the offered prize. It makes me glad to know that Noir7 would be so passionate enough about music and this community that he would gladly pay from his pocket a prize to a worthy winner. Though I admire this bold move, I don't really see the need to offer such a prize. Like I said, we are a community. A large family if you will. We celebrate in each other's victories as well as be supportive in our failures. I myself can remember many times talking to Deathraider about music and congratulating him when he was able to get his choral piece performed with a local choir in my area (we live no where near each other). I was disappointed I was not in the area to go and witness this performance and be supportive to him on his accomplishment, but at the end of the day that's what we're all about here at Ichigo's. I still to this day talk to members like Mazeppa and SirDotdotdot and occasionaly Al on YouTube along with other members. This to me is more than enough of an award.

Still, I feel some of my major points were missed. I did not say that orchestration and form aren't part of what make a composition great; I am simply saying that they are not the core of what makes a composition great. Furthermore, I agree with everything that Porsche said (including his choice of contest duration); my point was simply that for the purposes of this contest, each composer should somehow be allowed to put their best foot forward, and to use their strengths to come up with the best piece possible.

Mazeppa, I am inclined take offense at you calling us lazy just because we don't agree to your elaborate idea. However, I will, for now, overlook this.

Lastly, I think Kevin hit the nail on the head for what we *should* be thinking about in a contest, or at least what our own personal goals for this contest should be. I found what he said to be sort of humbling...

To me it seems like we're settling in on two popular options:

1) Simple One-Round Competition (something big? multi-movement?)
2) Multiple Rounds/Elimination

I don't object to Mazeppa's idea, but I wonder if we could possibly condense it a bit. Even for dedicated composers, 8 rounds is a lot. Maybe 6 rounds could suffice?

Once this is all settled, we should set up a polling thread soon.

What if we had one year to do one composition?

Or

What if we required the composer to use an exotic (at first I wrote erotic XD ) instrument?

I like the erotic one, better. XD

Getting back to things, the section which I have quoted is a nice pick. The entries should be able to pick the form and then just go from there (and by form I mean, orchestral, solo, instrumental/solo voice, sonata). Although, it is too abstract for my taste. If we are to choose this, then we must disregard the other ideas (such as the BIG contests or the SIMPLER contests) and agree on either a single-rounded one or multiple rounds, and how many if the latter is picked?

That's our first step.

Death, this is before Kevin wrote his post on the top of page 10. So don't count me out for knowing what we're supposed to be doing here. Furthermore, I want to apologize publicly that I have offended you personally, deathraider, and anybody else to my words and/or actions in this discussion. After all, I am only trying to voice my opinion and to keep showing what I meant by it. I know it's long and I am open to changing the idea if it is considered to be the competition, but I in no way shape or form said that it dominates everyone elses and that it's the best. I only said that I felt it served a higher purpose as a competition because is incorporated any elements of satisfaction and comfortableness and especially 'deservedness' and growth for everybody involved. I knew the faults before, and now I definitely know the faults.

And I never called you all lazy, but I called you OUT about it. Defend yourself on that action, but I don't expect you to and I actually don't want you to. Actually, let me re-phrase this, I called you lazy because people were giving the excuse of time and dedication. Uhm, don't you put time and dedication to what you love? In this case, music and the creating of music.

Just sayin'

EDIT:

A) Simple Competition

and for further contemplation,

A) Competition for one year. Why? I don't feel we all have access to an exotic instrument to record it, let alone, to even have one (Unfortunately!).

Actually, let me re-phrase this, I called you lazy because people were giving the excuse of time and dedication. Uhm, don't you put time and dedication to what you love? In this case, music and the creating of music.

Despite how much time and dedication one can put into something one loves, life will still get in the way. Things can pop up unexpectedly, forcing somebody to be less committed despite original intentions.

One year seems too long for me. How about 6 months instead? 8 months?

And I never called you all lazy, but I called you OUT about it. Defend yourself on that action, but I don't expect you to and I actually don't want you to. Actually, let me re-phrase this, I called you lazy because people were giving the excuse of time and dedication. Uhm, don't you put time and dedication to what you love? In this case, music and the creating of music.

This may not be related, but sometimes people have to do sacrifices of the things they love to do. They may have all the desire to do something and to give it dedication but there are other things that may stop the person. And they will need to choice, and not always the one they want is the chosen one due factors that can stop the person. But this can't take the fact that there would be room in the future if they know how to handle things and to cut others things that stop them. And this I am saying does not go to anyone here, I am just replying to that comment that gave me that thought.

About the contest, I would choice A) Simple contest

Why?

I am more interested to do a single work but in a large scale. This mean that I am after the creation of a long piece. I just have the desire to do something big. A long piece that I can feel proud of it and to give to it my dedication and thoughts.

Even if multiple rounds are chosen, I am still in the contest. I just want to compose, to learn and to keep improving. Maybe the multiple rounds would help better there, but my main interest is mostly a single long piece.

What if instead of a reward of $1000 the reward was a professional performance or professional production of the winning entry, which ever better fits the composition?

But how would we go about doing that? Do you mean we use the money to hire somebody to do that?

Precisely.

I don't think the $1000 would do the payment justice. :(

I don't think $1000 deserves something too long. I can work in a burger shop full time and within the same contest period I could've earned much, much more than $1000.

Pardon the short input. I don't really have the resources to say much. Say an orchestral piece to be performed by a live orchestra, only the elite can do such. Or compositions that are bound by theory, and theory alone. I don't really think there should be a requirement on what particular kind of song anyone joining will submit.

Or how about we remove the prize money altogether and have a 2-month contest, that way you can compose music in a timeframe of your choice while still being able to flip burgers.

I dunno...maybe we could ask around about that?

(BTW, that was totally my idea! XD)

lol! Burgers and symphonies... there's a market for that somewhere.


Back to the matter at hand tho. :lol:
I dunno bout this... in my opinion I think that what's in order is a simple contest. Write a piece over the summer and submit it. The mere fact that $1000 is on the line is enough to tell people "HEY! This isn't some pansy-ass contest. This is something you should go all out on."

Since it sounds like most of the people who have interest in this contest have already either posted here saying so or are giving their 2 bits we should make sure they get an opportunity to be a part of this.

No sense in having this unnecessarily grand ostentatious contest thinking we're all that and a bag of chips. I was under the impression this was supposed to stir creative talent in the community... not push people away with its pretentiousness. A multi-teired multiple composition contest (in the span of the summer)? A six month contest? Really? ...seems just a bit too much really.

K.I.S.S.

Seconded.

I see all of these points, but just as soon as we come to the "conclusion" to have a simple contest, we get another idea to the mix.

So, are we all agreeing on a simple contest, then? (Say AYE or NAY)

AYE

P.S. I feel we're already here, but it's nice to have a yes/no outlook on the majority for this stage of the process. :)

Aye! I already want the contest to start! I want to start thinking what I will plan to do for the contest!

Aye captain'! Lead on!

So, no poll needed? And no guidelines on what this 'simple' contest consists of? (Although I am in favour of a simple contest.)

Aye. Once we agree we can work more of the details out.

EDIT: Nice job with your Toronto song Al.

Well there now... that wasn't so difficult huh?

Now that we're pretty much on the straight and narrow about having a simple one goal "over the summer" contest, which I think suits everyone's interests to a degree, we can move to what we want to write.

Does Noir want there to be a style? Will we need to try and reflect older baroque/classical styles, or are we going avante-garde? Can Porsche submit his full orchestra work or will BigZenigata get away with his solo piece? Find out next time... on Drago-- no we're not doing that.

If we're doing a simple competition, how about these guidelines: minimum of two instruments with a minimum of 3 movements (maximum length of entire piece doesn't exceed 20 minutes)? Or something like that.

I still stay scrap any limitation on instrumentation and come up with something else with which to measure the artistic ability of the composer, something which requires personal interpretation.

What if we limit the time to a short time. That way the challenge is to submit your best work in a small amount of playing time.

I must agree with deathraider, I don't want to have a instrumentation limit, but the idea of movements (time?) is a good thought. I feel that we're back to square one, but now we're all set forward on SIMPLE DIMPLE. XD

Oh yeah, I forgot I am OK with the idea of movements, too.

So what do you guys propose for instrumentation? Should there be a minimum/maximum number of instruments? I still feel a minimum of 2 and a maximum of an orchestra is best.

No, as I said, I do not think ANY limits on instrumentation should be imposed.

Hmm I'm not sure how much I like the idea of having a minimum/maximum for movements. Cause you can write music that has an ABABC structure that is all one "movement" and yet still be great. Or are we okay with there being different sections, but not necessarily movements?
(For example, I played this semester "Contest Piece" by George Hue which had an andante section and a molto allegro section, but it is not formated as two separate movements.)

I have never heard form and structure as the same word, but when pieces are linked within each other (such as Barber's Symphony No. 1) they do not have to be separate movements, but the obvious feelings of sections. The ABACAD thing is a "form" (in that case, a Rondo).

No instrumentation "requirements."

Alright then, no restrictions on instrumentation. A few movements (or fairly-obvious sections), but how many? Maximum duration 20-30 minutes? Minimum . . ??

I think the minimum should be at least 4 minutes as I have said previously. In four minutes you can demonstrate a fine work to be evaluate without being too short. Plus I think something of one and half or two minutes would not be worth enough 1,000 dollars. And I do not mean it as the compositional quality but as if the composer were to be paid for have done a job.

4 minutes sounds reasonable. Even if the piece comes up to 03:50, someone can just fudge a longer ending. Perhaps a tolerance of +/- 5 seconds on that minimum... though I guess it's all up in the air.


A few movements (or fairly-obvious sections), but how many?
I think the minimum should be at the very least 2. That way there's some contrast. AB form perfectly acceptable in my book at the most I'd say somewhere in the 6-10 area being maximum movement/sections. Since then we're just getting ridiculous.

If 4 minutes IS THE minimum then 30 minutes IS THE maximum. And if 2 movements IS THE minimum then 8 movements IS THE maximum.

@BigZenigata-- I don't know about "getting ridiculous." There are many a piece out there with many sections. The Rite of Spring, for example. I think you could break that down into 14 movements, and two Acts (since it is, after all, a ballet).

I propose the competition to start on June 1 and all this debate of the contest to be done next week or as soon as possible. Else, we will just be prolonging all this more than we have been doing it!

If 4 minutes IS THE minimum then 30 minutes IS THE maximum. And if 2 movements IS THE minimum then 8 movements IS THE maximum.

@BigZenigata-- I don't know about "getting ridiculous." There are many a piece out there with many sections. The Rite of Spring, for example. I think you could break that down into 14 movements, and two Acts (since it is, after all, a ballet).

Whatever... I'm not Stravinsky. I'm in the mindset than we're all either teenagers/20-somethings that have a bit of free time on our hands, and therefore would not expect an 8 movement symphony written over the span of 2 months. Or let me rephrase that... an 8 movement symphony that sounds anywhere near "good" in the span of 2 months.

I agree with that. These composers did not wrote their big works in just 2 months. But there is nothing to complain about Mazeppa's comment. He talking of the maximum, there you are not forced to do something like that, but you are forced to do more than the minimum. Would be up to the composer how big he/she would want to go.

The only problem I would see is if someone with a smaller entry win against a longer entry. People would complain probably.

The only problem I would see is if someone with a smaller entry win against a longer entry. People would complain probably.
So? If more emotion and more "I like this" is brought out of a smaller entry than a longer work that doesn't nearly "say" as much, I think that's acceptable.

Say what you need to say in a piece, and when you're done saying it you're done with the piece. If that takes 4 minutes or 10 it shouldn't really matter. I think the longer pieces have it tougher since you have to keep your audience just as captivated at minute 10 as in minute 1. ...whatever floats your boat.

I was talking about a maximum.

If a shorter piece wins, then it must be a hell of an awesome piece to justify the prize!

If a shorter piece wins, then it must be a hell of an awesome piece to justify the prize!
I think that's for the judges to decide ;) hehe!

Now, what are we looking at? I'd like status updates on what we're agreeing on, so we do not get off track somehow.

Simple Competition, Minimum of two movements and a maximum of eight, the time limit will be from 4 to 30 minutes.

Any deadlines, now? 3 months?

I actually was thinking that would be good to start the competition on June 1 and to finish it on the first week of August. Two months and 1 week for take a reflection about it in that last week? Three months sounds nice too, more time to polish things.

I still think we should add a theme of some sort (maybe we should make Noir7 pick it so that none of us have an unfair advantage).

Well if we first decide on the very basics (length, form, other criteria) we can then focus on the "Well, what should we have them write about? Something specific? Or nothing at all?"

We've got a week and a half to do so. Yes?

I think the contest should start June 1st and end December 31st. That way nothing is rushed, ample time is given for late entries, and the overall quality would be better.

^ stop that...

*hits him with a roll of newspaper*

What if we make a poll where we all have our ideas posted then everyone votes that way?

Well if we first decide on the very basics (length, form, other criteria) we can then focus on the "Well, what should we have them write about? Something specific? Or nothing at all?"

We've got a week and a half to do so. Yes?

I wasn't saying we should decide on a theme, just decide to HAVE a theme. That is, to me, one of the "basics".

What if we make a poll where we all have our ideas posted then everyone votes that way?

I concur. I think that we, as a forum, should vote on these:


Length of contest
Form of contest (simple/rounds/other)
Time limit

And whatever else we can think of. I think we have a tacit agreement that it would be ~4 minutes and a simple contest? But to make sure, we should just set up these three polls and any other factors that need to be considered.

From these basic agreements we can derive the details of our contest proposal.

We're already past that point...

Somebody mentioned June 1st-August 1st. If that's the case, it'd be one of our shorter competitions, and anyway I wouldn't be participating then, since I'll be busy all July as it is.

I think the contest should start June 1st and end December 31st. That way nothing is rushed, ample time is given for late entries, and the overall quality would be better.

:heh:

^ stop that...

*hits him with a roll of newspaper again*



Onward to the polling, I say!

I concur. I think that we, as a forum, should vote on these:


Length of contest
Form of contest (simple/rounds/other)
Time limit

And whatever else we can think of. I think we have a tacit agreement that it would be ~4 minutes and a simple contest? But to make sure, we should just set up these three polls and any other factors that need to be considered.

From these basic agreements we can derive the details of our contest proposal.

Well it seem like:

Contest: Simple.

Theme: None? Maybe a text supplied by Noir7? A small text or story required by us?

Instrument limitation: none.

Minimum length allowed: 4 minutes.
Maximum length allowed: 30 minutes (Does anyone here will do the 30 mins?).

Starting day: June 1?
Deadline: in two months? three months? 7 Months?!?!? 5 years?!?!?!?!?!!?

Any dislike of what we "have" at the moment? lol

Deadline I would choice 3 months. Last contest was like 3 months also. About the theme I also would like a text supplied by Noir7. Maybe there is where we would find the real challenge.

I'll think of a theme for the contest and it will probably be, in some form, a story, be it a written text or a painting. I'll have to see about that. The starting will be later than June. I've read what you guys wanted, and I will take the points into consideration. And thanks again for those people who spent their time and efforts on conjuring up ideas for the contest.

I agree with Noir7's and Nyu001's posts (except the two movements/sections should be in there). We all agree on what we like about the contest, and I think I am one of those people who'd need a maximum if I was going to participate. XD

I like the idea of a story related contest; it really fits nicely with the whole "movements" thing we're all going for here.

Woops, forgot that one. ^^;

A story-themed contest sounds like fun! ^_^

Hmm . . . I do disagree about the maximum, though. I think at most it should be 20 minutes. Composing is akin to writing in that the challenge is also in the length. If the composition has a time limit, then the composer must cut out the unnecessary parts to get the main points to shine.

The rigorous thought process and the tough decisions that one makes while trying to cut a piece down will be lessened with a 30-minute time limit, and therefore will be less of a challenge.

What do you guys think?

You could say the same about the minimum then. Come on? Two movements that add up to 4 minutes? I don't want to be the one to talk about quantity, but sometimes people do the bare minimum, although I do not expect that. Also, in this competition (where we're going for a "bigger production") 30-minutes is a perfect maximum. No one will really reach that, but surely somebody might get close to it. We were talking about challenges in the past and 30 minutes for the max. (or 25) was the common of everything.

I say keep the maximum and minimum where they are right now.

I'll think of a theme for the contest and it will probably be, in some form, a story, be it a written text or a painting.

Can we choose the story? If Noir7 says the theme is love, can we choose the story?




A story-themed contest sounds like fun! ^_^

Hmm . . . I do disagree about the maximum, though. I think at most it should be 20 minutes. Composing is akin to writing in that the challenge is also in the length. If the composition has a time limit, then the composer must cut out the unnecessary parts to get the main points to shine.

The rigorous thought process and the tough decisions that one makes while trying to cut a piece down will be lessened with a 30-minute time limit, and therefore will be less of a challenge.

What do you guys think?

I don't really see the need for a maximum time limit. I suggest you make it as long as you want. 15 hours long if you like?

Yeah, 15 hours should be a good minimum, in my opinion actually. XD Just kidding, but I know what you mean, Kevin. We can see the maximum as a limit or a challenge. I choose to see it as just making the competition realistic. 4 minutes seems to be realistic for a minimum (even though, personally, I'd say 8) but 30 minutes is a good maximum and maybe a minute or so for lee-way. We cannot really shun somebody if they go 31:03 now can we? And there's a difference if somebody did 2:58... :think:

Yeah, 15 hours should be a good minimum, in my opinion actually. XD Just kidding, but I know what you mean, Kevin. We can see the maximum as a limit or a challenge. I choose to see it as just making the competition realistic. 4 minutes seems to be realistic for a minimum (even though, personally, I'd say 8) but 30 minutes is a good maximum and maybe a minute or so for lee-way. We cannot really shun somebody if they go 31:03 now can we? And there's a difference if somebody did 2:58... :think:

Yea that's agreed on. But if someone did submit something 60 mins long (WHICH WOULD BE AWESOME) I still think it should be accepted.

I'm pretty surprised how much attention you give in regard to the minimums and maximums. I mean, I would rather give a 1000 dollars to someone who came out composing To Zanarkand or Terra's Theme from the Final Fantasy series (which are both short in lenght and lack any sort of difficult instrumentation) than to some pretentious 20-minute long, fully orchestrated heap of mess. The lenght of the composition will not be an issue, and I do hope that people have the common sense that composing a 20-minute song will probably just piss the reviewer off. Sure, compose an hour long piece and it might just win, so long as it is good.

Furthermore, you cannot really compare Chopin's Ocean Etude to Beethoven's 9th in terms of "how good the composition is", can you? Be it a piano solo or a full orchestra, you are welcome to submit your entry.

The $1000 prize money isn't a reward for overcoming an obstruction such as instrumentation, but to bring forth a great composition to the realm of Ichigo's Forums.

Now if you'll excuse me I'll get back to feeding my girlfriend's over-sized colossus of a dog.

I'm pretty surprised how much attention you give in regard to the minimums and maximums. I mean, I would rather give a 1000 dollars to someone who came out composing To Zanarkand or Terra's Theme from the Final Fantasy series (which are both short in lenght and lack any sort of difficult instrumentation) than to some pretentious 20-minute long, fully orchestrated heap of mess. The lenght of the composition will not be an issue, and I do hope that people have the common sense that composing a 20-minute song will probably just piss the reviewer off. Sure, compose an hour long piece and it might just win, so long as it is good.

Furthermore, you cannot really compare Chopin's Ocean Etude to Beethoven's 9th in terms of "how good the composition is", can you? Be it a piano solo or a full orchestra, you are welcome to submit your entry.

The $1000 prize money isn't a reward for overcoming an obstruction such as instrumentation, but to bring forth a great composition to the realm of Ichigo's Forums.

Now if you'll excuse me I'll get back to feeding my girlfriends over-sized colossus of a dog.

Ok you just gave me my entrance idea. I'm definitely going to try and top some pieces I've done like my Zanarkand Rewrite Sky Barnet and How Beautiful they Are. Ok! That's my task for this comp...if it's ok with you?

Now, i have to continue getting drenched in rain whilst filming my girlfriend crying in the rain. For our new project :P

I mean, I would rather give a 1000 dollars to someone who came out composing To Zanarkand or Terra's Theme from the Final Fantasy series (which are both short in lenght and lack any sort of difficult instrumentation) than to some pretentious 20-minute long, fully orchestrated heap of mess.
This.

So yeah, a nice "shut it" to people who think longer is necessarily better. If the piece is memorable, then it has earned its place in the competition.

This.

So yeah, a nice "shut it" to people who think longer is necessarily better. If the piece is memorable, then it has earned its place in the competition.

Agreed!!! Go simple emotional pieces!!!

LOL. Agreed.

This.

So yeah, a nice "shut it" to people who think longer is necessarily better. If the piece is memorable, then it has earned its place in the competition.

Uhm, excuse me? I never said longer is better; I just happen to write longer pieces since it's just who I am.

I think you ought to mind what you are saying and who you're saying it to, since you're obviously not man enough to say who it is.

Step off, sir.

Uhm, excuse me? I never said longer is better; I just happen to write longer pieces since it's just who I am.

I think you ought to mind what you are saying and who you're saying it to, since you're obviously not man enough to say who it is.

Step off, sir.

I'm sure he didn't mean it as an attack. He's obviously passionate about shorter BGM type pieces like Zanarkand, just like me haha. I'm sure it just got interpreted differently. Typing doesn't produce vocal tones, so sometimes it's hard to interpret what someone is trying to convey. I'm sure BigZenigata meant it in a joking way, he just felt passionate about what he was writing about and may of accidentally used the wrong words.

Then I shall let it go, however, we should all remember that our words are the only ways we can let ourselves come across on here so we must take special care of how we say things. I do admit, I have fallen short of this in times past, (even the short past) but it doesn't change the fact that we need to notice what we are saying needs to be what we are saying.

I interpreted it completely wrong, so there is my mistake. Don't take it personally.

Then I shall let it go, however, we should all remember that our words are the only ways we can let ourselves come across on here so we must take special care of how we say things. I do admit, I have fallen short of this in times past, (even the short past) but it doesn't change the fact that we need to notice what we are saying needs to be what we are saying.

I interpreted it completely wrong, so there is my mistake. Don't take it personally.

Mmm. Yes. Agreed. I try to make post things that make perfect sense, which I normally don't get the first time because I'm a horrible proof reader (my WAAPA page is a perfect example of that haha). That's why I am always editing my posts haha.

Uhm, excuse me? I never said longer is better; I just happen to write longer pieces since it's just who I am.

Do not you get the problem that you just get so many ideas for one subject(piece) and you just see all of them can't be connected and you end just omitting many of them?

Because that happen a lot to me, and I remember in a competition 2 years ago in another contest I ended with more than 16mins of music that I did not use. And the track I used, I was forced to cut it because it was longer than the limited allowed. XD Estrella had a whole part omitted also; was not necessary for it.

As a request, could the prompt for the contest be something dark/evil/angry as I believe we have not focused on this kind of emotion before in a contest?

Thank you. ^_^

I'm sure BigZenigata meant it in a joking way, he just felt passionate about what he was writing about and may of accidentally used the wrong words.
Aye, meant it in all good fun. :) I'm a soundtrack/BGM sorta guy myself... so yeah, what Kevin was saying was almost spot on there.

As a request, could the prompt for the contest be something dark/evil/angry as I believe we have not focused on this kind of emotion before in a contest?

Thank you. ^_^

I agree with this one, albeit it is a little cheesy. I would also like to propose elements. I know it's also quite cliche, but it's very interesting to write about the elements. I often get inspired by the heavens (space).


Do not you get the problem that you just get so many ideas for one subject(piece) and you just see all of them can't be connected and you end just omitting many of them?

It's hard to tell. I haven't really written much in the last year or so, but I tend to do a good job creating themes that compliment each other pretty well. I am not this person who "strives" for big, long and stretched out pieces, it's just what I do and it's as natural for me to write a longer work like it is for people to write shorter ones.

That's all it is.. me. :)

I had another idea. This would be for the end of the contest. Could we have a "banquet" in IRC where we can in real time ask questions of each others entries, chat, and the winner of the contest would be announced?

The would be cool :think:

Yes, I kind of like that idea. I'll look into that as well!

Anyway, this contest won't start in a good while, so it's not too late to suggest things for the contest. Just don't focus on stuff like lenght and restrictions of that sort, because I will chop your fingers off just a little bit -

Samurai Noir7?

Ooh, I like the IRC idea a lot! :)

Hmm... will we have one prompt to all compose to, or will we pick one that inspires us from several prompts that are provided?

Hm, 15 pages of tomfoolery without any conclusive decisions about the contest's subject. Lots of time may have gone by since I last set my eyes on this forum, but some things never change. You guys are quite the goofy little community. I look forward to seeing the guidelines once they are at last established. :)

Is this happening?

Not until he gets $1000.

$1000 in what country's currency?

If you read the first post you would know that the prize is actually 95000 yen, which is approximately 1000USD.

oh ok thanks!! :heh:

I'll think of a theme for the contest and it will probably be, in some form, a story, be it a written text or a painting. I'll have to see about that. The starting will be later than June. I've read what you guys wanted, and I will take the points into consideration. And thanks again for those people who spent their time and efforts on conjuring up ideas for the contest.

I really don't have much to do with these areas, [OK, that's a lie, I have nothing to do with these parts of the forums haha], but maybe a theme could be like picking a painting or other visual art from an era or artist, and writing something based on that? Noir could determine the Era or Artist, and the competitors could pick the piece of part.

Just a suggestion haha.

That's awesome. Really, I like that. I'm excited for this thing to get on it's way sometime in the future. :)

I really don't have much to do with these areas, [OK, that's a lie, I have nothing to do with these parts of the forums haha], but maybe a theme could be like picking a painting or other visual art from an era or artist, and writing something based on that? Noir could determine the Era or Artist, and the competitors could pick the piece of part.

Just a suggestion haha.

It's already been done, though. (http://forums.ichigos.com/showthread.php?t=10048&highlight=paintings)

Not really. What RD suggested was the topic of a painter himself and what his works were.. such as Monet being an Impressionist or Da Vinci being an Renaissance.

I suppose that's true. I still think it's pretty similar to the other one, though.

Life again to the thread :P Similar to the 07 contest but not just with 4 already chosen pictures. I think better output will come from a comp that has more freedom, but then again setting boundaries challenged thinking. Wow. I just went nowhere with that.. ahaha.

You did go somewhere, but if we started with that statement then the 16 pages we've set forth now are worthless. XD

Really, the life was still in this thread; we are simply waiting on Noir7, and whenever he decides to post everything up, then we shall be on our way. :)

You did go somewhere, but if we started with that statement then the 16 pages we've set forth now are worthless. XD

Really, the life was still in this thread; we are simply waiting on Noir7, and whenever he decides to post everything up, then we shall be on our way. :)

mmn. agreed. Waiting time :P

For all Australians out there who are interested the prize money is worth
$1,000.00 USD = $1,286.11 AUD

or you could go straight from the yen he's offering (since that's the only constant in this)
¥95000 JPY = $1023.10 USD = $1315.50 AUD at this point.

It's also 737.76 Euros, $1190.58 CAD, and ¥6994.94 RMB for the other international folks.

haha. Based on an expo I just saw here in Seattle, what about a "jimi hendrix experience-type" comp. Driving sound to the limits?

PS: This is sort of a joke post, but could become a sort of suggestion of you like it.

I'd like to suggest the idea of making music based on a piece of writing, such as Debussy did in Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune.

I'd like to suggest the idea of making music based on a piece of writing, such as Debussy did in Prélude à l'après-midi d'un faune.

That's a good idea. Maybe base it off the scene though, not the music itself. Otherwise the music's influence could be too overwhelming to the originality.

I think you misunderstood his meaning. He said "a piece of writing", such as the poem which inspired that particular Debussy piece.

Maybe I need to ease on the mocha lol. Sorry ahaha. I'm pretty crazy at the moment lol. It's a really good idea though!

It's the jetlag, I'm sure.

I just payed out a 85.000 YEN (800 USD?) to a winner of another composition contest I started while I was living in Japan (At the moment, I'm in Sweden). I was planning on uploading that winning entry and show it to you guys, I personally found it incredibly creative (although I didn't decide on the winner). Anyway! I like clarinetist's idea of composing music to a story of some kind. Didn't we do one with pictures before? Could we evolve on that idea? Kind of a great work of art (writing, painting, etc) that is musicalized(...).

And yes I know I have been dragging this on and on, but I don't want to schedule it too soon (as I did with some previous ones) and then not have the required amount of time to personally oversee the progress, rating, etc etc. Poor Deathraider had to wait almost 3 weeks to get his 100 dollars from me last time he won ;___;

I'm considering to start this thing some time in the autumn, maybe? In September I'll be in New York getting myself busy, so it will have to be after that, when I will be chilling for three months in my "glorious" Tokyo 8-square metre apartment... unless it has been ravaged to rumble by an earthquake by then.

Discuss! ^___^ (And yes, I will try to roam these boards more frequently now and again)

Poor Deathraider had to wait almost 3 weeks to get his 100 dollars from me last time he won

It's all good; I can't complain since I WAS getting money out of it! :heh:

I feel to ask you a personally question of how much do you earn... Because you seem fine giving those amount of money! o_O

"At the moment, I'm in Sweden."

"In September I'll be in New York getting myself busy,"

"I will be chilling for three months in my "glorious" Tokyo 8-square metre apartment..."

Lucky! You get to travel for work! :P

:think: I feel tempted to contribute to the prize.

I was thinking about the prize this morning; Wouldn't it be cooler to have a more physical prize? Like, um, I don't know but something in the value of 1000 bucks. Money seems so generic somehow, and it would be proper to give away something that had to do with music composition. Any ideas? Or just stick with the sum?