I really wouldn't attempt rach 3 if you can't sight read. you need to develop your musical ability much further for something like that. i can sight read, and have played pieces in the same league as rach 3 in concerts, but gave up with the outer movements because i dont have the capacity for them at the moment. in a masterclass i went to over the summer, someone in the class was told that you need a good 6 yr+ experience of playing at a level beyond grade 8 before you will be ready to tackle this piece. and i have to say i agree.

and a 6 key stretch makes it a million times harder. i have the same stretch as Mazeppa (sometimes an 11 key if its on one black, one white) and there are some chords that are meant to be played as one that i have to spread.

think rach 3 is definately up there with the most difficult pieces.

would also like to add to the list some of the Messiaen Vingt Regards x_x


Nah, I'll never attempt to play rach 3. :heh: I saw it and I was like, I can never play that. :heh: For me, piano is just a hobby. I'm not very serious about it. :P But I do like playing the piano. If I like something and it's within my ability, then I'll practice and try to play it. I've been playing for a couple years, so I would pick things up here and there from watching my teacher. Other than that, I'm a lazy bum. Lol.

And yeah, my hands really do make things really difficult. I remember how my piano teacher and I would devise ways so I can compensate for those loong stretches. Of course that usually doesn't work and we ended up just fooling around. But it was still fun and interesting. ^_^

Isn't it rumored that the Rach-3 is the most difficult piece for piano of all time?

Or is that still JUST a rumor?

I doubt that it's the most difficult but it certainly is one of the most difficult pieces out there. I'm sure there are some that are even more challenging....at least that's what I think. :heh:

Hm... Never played it before. :( Does anyone have the sheet music?

here you go.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZOH22JRR - 1st mvt

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QF5Q7HPP- 2nd and 3rd mvts

i highly recommend the video of Argerich playing this piece to anyone who hasnt seen it; she's amazing.

i wouldnt say it was the most difficult piece of all time, but its definately one of them

:heh: Hah, I'm downloading those now.

This is good for me to analyze chords and such.

lol

i randomly played through the first movement earlier; think im getting the hang of it (5 months after first attempt) :P

Mazeppa and Feux follets are the hardest pieces I've ever seen played... damn Liszt
*Adds Un sospiro to that list [no pun intended :P])*

Nice pun.

Anyway, Un Sosopiro is a beautiful piece, hard--yes! But I think it's easier than Liszt's transcedentals.

un sospiro isnt hard!

You're being sarcastic? Or agreeing?

God, I hate text-based emotions. x_x

Nah, I'll never attempt to play rach 3. :heh: I saw it and I was like, I can never play that. :heh: For me, piano is just a hobby. I'm not very serious about it. :P But I do like playing the piano. If I like something and it's within my ability, then I'll practice and try to play it. I've been playing for a couple years, so I would pick things up here and there from watching my teacher. Other than that, I'm a lazy bum. Lol.

And yeah, my hands really do make things really difficult. I remember how my piano teacher and I would devise ways so I can compensate for those loong stretches. Of course that usually doesn't work and we ended up just fooling around. But it was still fun and interesting. ^_^

I get what you mean... It looks awful... x_x I'll never life through this if my teacher makes me play it... :shifty: Oh my...@_@

here you go.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZOH22JRR - 1st mvt

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=QF5Q7HPP- 2nd and 3rd mvts

i highly recommend the video of Argerich playing this piece to anyone who hasnt seen it; she's amazing.

i wouldnt say it was the most difficult piece of all time, but its definately one of them

The link for the 2nd and 3rd mvts doesn't work...:cry:

Yea, it's invalid (Also, use the edit button please!)

You're being sarcastic? Or agreeing?

God, I hate text-based emotions. x_x

was that directed at me?

i meant what i wrote lol- un sospiro isnt hard.

there again, arpeggios and crossing hands are my strengths, so...

He forgot to press the spacebar for the hyphen after the second link XD just backspace it out

You must be pretty talented Thorn if Un sospiro is easy for you to play. It's hard for me to cross the hands and keep everything legato. But it is a pretty piece ^^ and yeah I agree the Transcendentals are much harder (Mazeppa would know :P)

I have all 12, so yea. I still want to get good with fast chords to play the Wilde Jagd which is my 2nd favorite of the transcedentals.

(Gee, wonder what's my fav. one? :heh: )

Mozart- Piano Concerto #22- Movement III- Allegro

The hardest song for to memorise was 'summer' by Joe hisaishi, i gave up and moved onto somthing else, i'll go back to it someday.

Currently though, i'm memorising the 'Castle in the sky' theme tune by Joe hisaishi.

The most difficult piano piece I've played is Tarantella Venezia e Napoli by Franz Liszt : http://www.academiemusiqueplus.org/sound/maneli_pirzadeh_venezia_tarantella.mp3

Listen to it, it's beautiful :)

i havent attempted that... it looked too tricky. maybe when im at music college ill give it a shot =P

what are people's thoughts on Balakirev's Islamey? thats supposedly one of the most difficult pieces of piano music, but apart from the speed and the double octave glissando i think its pretty simple

What a coincidence ! I heard a friend (who is a maths teacher) playing it, it's funny :)

i've been playing the piano for 10 years and i think the most difficult piece was the Turkish march or something like that. it was way too fast for my fingers to catch on!

^You mean "Alla Turca" >.<.

It's just the left hand grace notes...

rpaogj

islamey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH-wPe5KxWY

Uggg, you do not know how much I hate that song. Its so annoying sounding...

Heroic Polonaise is quite hard.

Uggg, you do not know how much I hate that song. Its so annoying sounding...


really? i think the theme of the middle section is beautiful

Jill-Jênn - I like Li Yundi's version of that song. It's faster, believe it or not. >.< But yes, I agree, great song. Is that you playing it? o.o If so, it's really good.

really? i think the theme of the middle section is beautiful

Its okay, but the rest is all PLUCK PING PLUCK PLINGY PLUCKY. Its like that Psycho song gone terribly wrong and somewhat happy...

Then you must not like Liszt very much.

Well, then, I don't like you very much. :sweat: Jk.

I heard Islamey was Liszt's favourite piece of music

i can see where you're coming from RD. all show pieces have the risk of sounding like that though and i guess it depends on the performer. berezovsky's islamey doesnt sound 'psycho song gone wrong' at all

I was going to say--it sounds a lot like my improvations. All over the place. I love it.

Taking a melody and progression and comping on it for like 9 mins. <3

Well, I'm not saying the kid doesn't have talent, if anyone was taking it that way. Its just not how I would play it, in other words its not my preferred interpretation. But thats just me, everyone should do what their heart says. Share berezovsky's version? I want to hear it.

Pictures at an exhibition (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PhOz3lNMCFU) isnt that hard, but its going to annoy the heck out of you trying to get it perfect [I dont like this guys version, so yea...]

Chopin's "Winter Wind Etude".

(You need the Silbeius (sp?) Scorch Viewer).

http://www.music-scores.co.uk/discus/messages/14/Winter_Wind_Etude-19160.sib

Its like 10 times harder then the original lol (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xEFJKFOZbF8)

Jill-Jênn - I like Li Yundi's version of that song. It's faster, believe it or not. >.< But yes, I agree, great song. Is that you playing it? o.o If so, it's really good.You mean, the Tarantella ? Yes, I play it :)


I heard Islamey was Liszt's favourite piece of musicBalakirev, you mean ?

yes Balakirev wrote it, but it was Liszt's favourite piece.

someone mentioned winter wind etude- thats the op 25 nr 11 isnt it? its not THAT difficult

has anyone seen the Kapustin concert etudes? they are a set of tricky pieces if ever i saw one

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YDOCXcaNdjk&mode=related&search=

heres a nice version of Islamey that I like. Its not as plucky.

Its like 10 times harder then the original lol (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xEFJKFOZbF8)

Eh, that guy is quite a show-off in my opinion.

Yeah, he's pretty good at making arrangements, but his sloppyness is what kills me. He does almost a flawless performance of that, but makes around 17 mistakes in it. I know accidentals, and then I know accidents.

~~

Also, when he plays Mazeppa, he misses SOOO MUCH.

I don't think you should be judging him, which is something I didn't expect out of you, maze. Out of any one, I thought you would know that people with true talent are the one who are picked on the most over small things that are relatively minor because others feel "less" compared to them. I doubt you are yet to perfect any song to absolute perfection yet, so don't judge others who haven't either.

But yeah, everyone is entitled to an opinion :stoned:

Oh no, I know he has astounding talent, and is very good--just I've heard reviews as like one of, if not, THE best young players out there, but I hear so many mistakes in his videos. @_@

It's not him, it's his other critiques that praise him. Lol--he's still better than I am right now. Haha.

I don't know, your really good for your ripe age. Not really good, very really good.

Who is that young player your talking about?

The one who played the variations of Mozart's Turkish March....

Liszt's La Campanella so far...

The one who played the variations of Mozart's Turkish March....

Variations? There's only one version I've heard/played, unless you mean a diluted arrangement of it... =/

@Panta -


Its like 10 times harder then the original lol (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xEFJKFOZbF8)

That's what I'm takin' 'bout.

Ah, I must see this.

This dude who played the crazy Alla Turca...you guys ever heard music from Alkan and Sorabji? It reminds me of their pieces - stormy playing required in Alkan/Sorabji/s vicious composition...Problem is, Mozart's music is not written like that - it requires a more dainty, delicate touch. His arrangement is chucking the 2 types into a blender and personally, I don't think it mixed...

Yup-yup, I am mildly acquainted with Sorabji's and Alkan's unplayable styles I am...asked someone for Alkan's Saltarelle in this thread 4 months ago. And after 4 months of training, I think I can finally play it pretty decently~ =)

Yuck. Mozart was no Dino - I must say, though that was amazing, it was way too dissonant for my taste. Some of it was even flat out unmusical.

I've heard of Alkan, but not heard of any of his pieces apart from something called 'Comme le vent' or something? think its an etude?

Sorabji, however i know. I've heard La Jardin Parfume and the first 25 etudes. If I could afford the sheet music I would learn Etude 20 =] But they all sound incredibly difficult.

I'm playing again Chopin's Ballad (#1 Op. 23)... It's beautiful :P (maybe because it's the prefered song of the girl I love :))

Funny how that affects our perception of things.

Anyone here played Chopin's A flat Waltz, op. 42? Aka Two-Four Waltz? One hell of a song, especially up to tempo.

Funny how that affects our perception of things.Completely :sweat:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=R-nY0Pa7OvA
its a hard song

I'd opt for Opus Clavicembalisticum, [one of the] hardest song I've ever seen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opus_Clavicembalisticum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gfP-ag6i5o
That one, is MONSTROUS. hooooly crap. Cziffra's Bumblebee. anyone got the sheet?

yeah, Opus Clavicembalisticum is one of those pieces that was just written for the sake of being immensely difficult.

but in the time it took you to learn it, you could probably learn the (in my opinion) equally difficult Rachmaninoff 3rd Concerto- and what would you rather hear in concert?

i think pieces like OC were just written to be looked at and thought "shit thats a lot of notes" rather than to be listened to and performed. in which case is there even any point in its existance?

The craziest slur I've ever seen (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.music.informatics.indiana.edu/media/don/chopinnocturnediffdurs_context2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.music.informatics.indiana.edu/don_notation.html&h=665&w=768&sz=121&hl=en&start=42&tbnid=9wV5lH8gRtu0aM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=142&prev=/images%3Fq%3DOpus%2BClavicembalisticum%2B%26start% 3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D50%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Do ff%26sa%3DN), compliments of OC.

It's the first image down.

i want to use my copy of OC as wallpaper xD

in terms of performing i wouldnt touch it with a barge pole, but its really cool to look at =]

Do you guys play chopin etudes? The winter wind etude is sooo freaking hard.
The person who has the best interpertation of it is defintly Richter

I know it's hard :P ...

winter wind is technically one of the hardest etudes, but i think taking other things into account the hardest ones are ones like op 10 nr 3 where a good performance needs more than just getting your fingers round the notes. op 10 nr 3 when played properly is just magical. but very few (even professional) pianists can pull it off.

all of the chopin etudes are pretty hard to pull off though. fair enough if you're just using them as technique developers but in a performance situation most people fail. i was in a piano competition last weekend where someone played the revolutionary the aeolian harp etudes; the revolutionary had no fury whatsoever and the aeolian harp didnt sound like a harp at all.

please someone tell me im not the only one thats that critical of chopin etude performances?

What about Willow the Wisps? (Feux Follets) or whatever the spellings are? (Think it's No. 7?)

assuming you mean the Liszt etude its no. 5

Chopin certainly seems to be getting a lot of vote for hardest composer. I agree, some of his songs are crazy. There is a point in just looking at them though. Some people think that music can be both visual and audible art. I tend to agree.

assuming you mean the Liszt etude its no. 5

Yeah, I meant that (I forget some of the etude's orders. Lol) one! :lol: But I think that one has some crazy beginning for the first part, and other Chopinish Rhapsodish like qualities which make it pretty virtuostic that I remember. Very chromatic and lose fingers. One of my favrourites to add actually. Lol.

@sylaurowen- Yeah I agree with you that it's not only a musical art, but a visual one as well. I always used to think that when I first started reading music. :heh:

the beginning of feux follets is relatively easy. its when you get to the leaps that it turns into a bastard. i find it strange how people say the main difficulty in that etude is the double notes in the right hand when they are in fact the easiest part. (all of this 'easiness' being relative, obviously)

That might be one I'd try later on in the year then. After the WSMA is over I think I'm gonna start on some of the Transcedentals (had the music for the a year, and I can finally attempt to actually learn one. Lol). First one I'm going to do is (most likey, 99%) No. 6 "Vision". It seems challenging, but overall it's pretty easy for my level of need. :heh:

Vision is an amazing piece =]

have any of you come across Scriabin's Vers la flamme?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ka3lyo-Cg&mode=related&search=

watch it right to the end. if Horowitz says something is difficult then its VERY difficult (for those who dont know who he is, he made several harder versions of Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies and the Mephisto Waltz)

Sonata in E flat and Sonata in C. Both by Haydn.

have any of you come across Scriabin's Vers la flamme?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ka3lyo-Cg&mode=related&search=

watch it right to the end. if Horowitz says something is difficult then its VERY difficult (for those who dont know who he is, he made several harder versions of Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies and the Mephisto Waltz)

Christ Almighty, Tremolo for the win. :sweat:

Actually, it sounds like a lot of my improvations (that early contemporay-ism) but it's obviously a lot more "technical" and such than the improvs. ^_^

Some crazy piece there Thorn, you ever attempt it?

yeah im hoping to play it for music college auditions. but there are some AWFUL cross rhythms and the tremoli are all written out with tied notes so they are just straight forward- and they have to be, well fiery enough to reflect Scriabins intentions and it can make your left hand ache after practising too much.

the sheets are here if you're interested

http://imslp.ca/images/5/54/Scriabin-Op72.pdf

edit: if you look at the sheets its actually harder than Horowitz's performance: he cheats and takes most of the tremoli between both hands where a good 95% of them are written to be played in the left hand alone

it was written based on the idea of the end of the world. Scriabin believed it would end by being swallowed by fire

it was written based on the idea of the end of the world. Scriabin believed it would end by being swallowed by fire

Lol, he must have had a Christian-type religion, correct? :heh:

Anyway, I downloaded them from the site just to keep in meh sheets library. And thanks for getting me turning on to scriabin. I've always heard he was one of the top virtuosos of history (Like Liszt, Rachmaninoff for ex.) but couldn't really find many composition CDs at my library. Lol, I'll try to look harder now. ^.^

It's not letting me get it, something about "this is the second ILSMP image server".

^Try downloading it instead (Right-click, and click "Save Target as...".)

EDIT: Or... it doesn't work now.

Yeah, that pretty much doesn't work either.

Would it be anywhere else?

the places i usually use for this kind of sheet music are down for some reason.

i will scan and upload my own copy.

and going a bit off topic: Mazeppa if you want to get into Scriabin, have a look at his Etudes

Keepin' it off Topic : Thorn, went to the Library the other day and got his Etudes on CD and 5 Preludes too. Some great stuff!

Yeah, I know Ballade No. 1 by Chopin was one of the hardest, but I'm going to try it for the Chopin Piano Competition (hopefully) this upcoming year. I don't know if they still hold it though. :heh:

i did Ballade 1 in a Chopin competition earlier this month. it went over really well.

good luck with it.

Tetris!

Keepin' it off Topic : Thorn, went to the Library the other day and got his Etudes on CD and 5 Preludes too. Some great stuff!

Yeah, I know Ballade No. 1 by Chopin was one of the hardest, but I'm going to try it for the Chopin Piano Competition (hopefully) this upcoming year. I don't know if they still hold it though. :heh:

THE Chopin Competition?! The Frederic Chopin International Piano Competition?!

I think Ballade No. 1 is very hard, but I just don't understand that piece.

i dont think he means that one- there are other chopin piano competitions around.

although if he does mean that one i will be very impressed

Haha, then don't get your hopes up. It's a competition that's held at Polish Fest yearly for ages 6-18 I think. There are two classes, Junior (6-14) and Senior (15-18). Many Chinese people enter and win--just a coincidence? :heh:

But yeah I like it because you have to play it by memory, and the contestants play the showy-technical pieces like Ballades, Etudes, Sonata Mvts. etc. etc.

from what ive seen from entering these things the entrants just arent up to chopin etude standard

prepare your ears

the thing i entered was like that- you'll be fine with the ballade =]

Oh trust me, my ears are seriously developed. I can't play my WSMA piece (the Pathetique III Mvt.) without saying it sucks completely every time I play it.

Then again, the pianos I play on are horrible--even mine is a type of craphammer. :heh:

Overworld. It's a zelda song I think.

Yeah, I didn't think it was that competition. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if either of you end up going in a few years [train up, the next ones in '10].

Etsampes 1 Pagodes by Debussy is pretty hard. Many off beat notes and even three against two.

lol- by then i will be virtually at end of music college so perhaps =P

and Jardins sous la Pluie is harder than Pagodes

I prefer that piece over Pagodes, but I think Pagodes is still harder lol.

Faerie's Aire and Death Waltz

http://www.well.com/user/bryan/waltz.html

XD. This forum has already talked about that sheet music. It's a joke.

*searches for topic*

EDIT: Found it :) : http://forums.ichigos.com/showthread.php?t=6139

LOL, that's amazing... I'm hyping the gong duet. :lol: