1. Oh lord, don't abuse the wind chimes, please. Having them playing every two bars make the piece very annoying because it rings a lot and will always stand out.

2. What's with the bells playing so low? They play much higher.

3. As for your solo in your piccolo in variation 3, the tremolo part (possibly fluttertongue) is not a good idea, especially with a diminuendo.

1. Fixed... :bleh: If only I could make the weird "sliding" effect on the wind chimes go slower....

2. :heh: I forgot that the Finale Programs (in Concert pitch) put the bells one octave higher, and then when it is transposed, it goes down one octave.

3. Fixed... yet to think of ideas, though. :) At least I have a break from school starting Friday (tomorrow for me).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As usual, COMMENTS ARE NEEDED! Especially on:

*Percussion use
*The theme/intro... should I add an intro to the beginning, or leave it as it is?

It would be nice if in the beginning you changed the rhythmic feel of the bells so that it doesn't seem so much like a waltz. I would add in a poco ritard at measure 41 as well.

That glockenspiel roll at the first fermata, take it out. Also, near the end of the first variation, why does the oboe end so abruptly? Change it. Thirdly, check your bell's range, you got it up to a high 'E', the highest note should be C. :mellow: And yes, I agree with Deathraider, that waltz-like motif is very unfitting and at times annoying.

i.... dunt know wat u guys are talking about...
:sweat:
but that's what make musicians special...
i wanna be like that special... so here i am
*plays piano*
<_< man im so nub

*Measure 13: The "weird, out of nowhere" Flute and Clarinet part was an idea that I heard when my computer was going really slow, and playback gave this out. What do you think about it? Leave it or take it out?

*On Var. I, I'm just "shaving" stuff out.... so don't say anything about it yet...

*Update on Percussion... Comments Needed...

NOTE: IT USES 2006, NOT 2007!

*Sorry for double posting, but COMMENTS ARE NEEDED!

-MP3 Provided...

I don't know man... you've been working on this for so long, so I don't wanna disencourage you :P The ending chord does seem to need one more note in there somewhere to clarify the finale though.

I don't know man... you've been working on this for so long, so I don't wanna disencourage you :P The ending chord does seem to need one more note in there somewhere to clarify the finale though.

Not finished yet...

Please be as strict as you want ;) . I don't want to mess up and start over again. :P It's better than anyone else in my school can do...

...which is why I am writing this for the school band. No one (in terms of students) has ever composed a song at my school. Here's another reason for it: http://eagle.stillwater.k12.mn.us/~walkm//Composition%20Assignments.htm

Look at the last column. What's happening is that this song will be performed at a concert, and possibly some "Chicago Heritage Festival", so I want to make it as good as I can get it...

~Only reason I started so long ago is because I know it takes me a long time to write songs, since I don't have much knowledge on composition (but theory, I'm OK with).

I mean, I looked over you score earlier and listened a few times to this mp3 version... and theoratically, I'm sure it's more than fine. If that's what the competition is all about, then I'm sure you'll win. Artistically though, it feels so empty. There's not much to grab on to, there's no flow at all. I'm not sure if you wanted artistic reviews.

There's not much to grab on to, there's no flow at all.

Since Noir brought that point up, I think I can paraphrase that more technically: I think he means that your transitions between your variations are quite weak (no, just fermatas won't do). If you want a smoother transition, it's better if you keep the same key in your future variations and if you're really desperate to make it another key, make it the key of the dominant of the tonic since you can modulate back to the original key later on.

Noir also brought up another point for me, lol. You know my earlier criticism about your first idea for this project about how the variations felt too insecure and non-related? I think it's kind of happening again... Somehow... You see, as correct as your melody and harmony maybe (I can't really say orchestration or tone colouring, as having too many instruments playing long notes or chordal motifs [arppegios and etc...] doesn't really show much of your understanding of orchestration), it lacks the 'oomph'. Perhaps this is caused by the fact that your music is 'too correct'. This might be a little confusing concept... But you see, if you have everything too 'perfect' it just won't stick in your mind. I also think your music lack tension and climaxes. It just drags on. You should make a climax point in your music so that there's something to build up to.

^Oh... so basically, is it too "strict" in a way (by this, I mean, not "freely")?

You may put it that way, but I don't really think 'strict' is the right word.

*Deleted the First Variation- It's not much, so it won't matter.
*Substituting the Trumpet soli for an Oboe solo.
*Theme is not yet complete; I thought that I made my themes too short, so I'm extending it.

COMMENTS NEEDED!

Yeah, the whole tension thing was what I was trying to show you with the dissonant chords that I added when I went in and added my touches. That's one of the best ways to create tension, is to use non-harmonic tones dissonant chords.

Oh... I was wondering why you added the dissonance.

*(Expect Double Post if no comments are up)

If you're looking at Themes and Variations pieces, listen to "Dance at the Lake of Miramoor" by Barry E. Kopetz, I think there's a portion you can listen to ;)

http://barryekopetz.com/works/frontworks/miramoor.htm

I added a few ideas, don't hesisate to remove them or give the parts to other instruments :)

EDIT: I realize the recording is cut short, but the next section features an alto sax soli with (what's the term he used? Retarded?) the melody twice as slow (which is common, and is often accompanied by embellishments/runs in the woodwinds). You could try to utilize that technique.

I wouldn't suggest runs or fast arppegios for student bands. Yes, you might think I treat school bands too underestimating, but hey it's better to be safe than sorry. :mellow:

I wouldn't suggest runs or fast arppegios for student bands. Yes, you might think I treat school bands too underestimating, but hey it's better to be safe than sorry. :mellow:

Already talked about with director. The Eagle Band is way better than I thought they'd be when I heard their recordings (maybe a bit too good... the tone quality is unusually good). But I won't make it "extremely difficult". Compared to the band I'm in, they are way better with the balance, which means I'll need a new title :lol:. Thanks for the ideas, ajamesu.

2 Recordings of the band, not my songs(don't worry. No Copyright/License on it)

Gypsy Dance: http://www.wikiupload.com/download_page.php?id=64601 (just press "download file" and type in the numbers/letters, then click "get").


:think: Gypsy Dance is somewhat similar to my 1st idea... It probably would be a good idea to study over it...

UPDATE INCLUDED! COMMENTS NEEDED.

Um, in the third chord, I would suggest you keep it the way you had it before. You kind of jumped to the dissonance. Usually, it's better to lead into and out of dissonance by step-wise motion if you can so that it doesn't sound so jarring, but so it still creates the tension.

cooleo!!

I like the song. I can't do anything with Finale, just listen to the music. I'll try to give you the MIDI's, but that won't always work. I have Sibelius, so I can create MIDI's and waves files, I think. In fact, the MIDI is just a piano part. I'm just playing with the piccolo, flute and oboe parts. And I've put in an image. I hope that you can look at the image. There are no dynamics in the picture.

^I wish I could post two oboe parts, but there's only one oboe. *Update will be posted soon...

^I wish I could post two oboe parts, but there's only one oboe. *Update will be posted soon...

You wouldn't want to. Having two oboes to stay in tune with the same tone is like asking a piccolo to play a tuba part. Furthermore, even if you have two oboes playing different things, it just means that you're sacrificing your audience to focus on the oboes but nothing else in your band. I'd still say that you should reserve the double reeds for orchestral settings, band settings are better off with large brass sounds.

Having two oboes to stay in tune with the same tone is like asking a piccolo to play a tuba part.

What? Do all oboes sound different or something? That's kind of weird...I didn't know that. Thanks for the interesting fact. Could someone explain *why* that is now? :3

Clarinetist, I actually liked this piece. I happily listened to the whole thing, which is good, and probably all you need. Nothing really stuck out and made me go "omg that was awesome!" but on the whole it was enjoyable to listen to. And what is this for exactly? Are you having your school band play it or what? That's so cool! Good luck. ^_^

They don't *all* sound different, it's just that they always stand out. Because they always stand out, it's hard to make them stay in tune with other oboes(I'm an oboist, I'd know). Furthermore, since Clarinetist is composing for some school bands, I really wouldn't suggest to write for two or more oboes since I am always reserved about the experience of these bands.

Clarinetist, I actually liked this piece. I happily listened to the whole thing, which is good, and probably all you need. Nothing really stuck out and made me go "omg that was awesome!" ^_^

I understand that nothing is sticking out... (too much early classical music -_-...)

I have GOT to start studying other stuff, rather than Mozart/Beethoven x_x.

*I've been busy :bleh:, so I'll try to post something up later.

They don't *all* sound different, it's just that they always stand out. Because they always stand out, it's hard to make them stay in tune with other oboes(I'm an oboist, I'd know). Furthermore, since Clarinetist is composing for some school bands, I really wouldn't suggest to write for two or more oboes since I am always reserved about the experience of these bands.

Ah, I see. Thanks for explaining; I love the way oboes sound, so I was curious about what you had said. ^_^


I understand that nothing is sticking out... (too much early classical music ...)

I have GOT to start studying other stuff, rather than Mozart/Beethoven .

*I've been busy , so I'll try to post something up later.

That may be the problem...my parents bought me a big set of classical music cds, and I can't even be bothered to listen to them; they all sound to similar to my tastes, kind of like robots had written the songs. The rules of classical music are just too strict, in my opinion. ^ ^;

I still liked your song though, it just needs something gorgeous stuck in the middle of it, so the people listening perk their ears up and take notice. Keep up the good work. :3

HopelessComposer brings up an excellent point ~ In order for someone to like your music, they must first listen to it and take notice. In order to do that, you'll have to lose that plain and boring overall sound that it currently has. Let it be like a sinus curve, not like a plain line.

It desperately needs a high moment, heck, even a low one might do the trick. Then at least the pessimists will take notice, and that's still better than nothing =/

Let it be like a sinus curve, not like a plain line.

Another thing I noticed (especially when I entered "No Title in Bb/C Minor in the last Free Theme contest). My music is very "straight forward". It's probably even monotonus at times :\ . But at least I know....

I'd better get working... only 17 days left.

COMMENTS NEEDED!

*I am planning to leave it as is right now (concerning the oboe part only), and then have a entirely different section after the oboe's E Natural. Notice how it slows down...

At my school, we have two oboes. Both are still somewhat new at the oboe, but when they do have solos, or duets, they can most of the time get it in tune. Though, only having one oboe does make that different. What are the numbers of your band? Also, what grade are a majority of your band members in?

Also, not all pieces have to be for the brass. There can be some very challenging pieces for the woodwinds, such as Marriage of Figaro for Band. Evil piece, by the way. Half note a 132 with a ton of eighth note runs. Our brass don't play much in that song. Yeah, a lot of the songs are geared more towards brass, but the higher the grade level, the more technical it can get for the woodwinds. Especially songs like Esprit de Corps, Incantation and Dance, or March from Symphonic Metamorphosis.

Also, not all pieces have to be for the brass. There can be some very challenging pieces for the woodwinds, such as Marriage of Figaro for Band. Evil piece, by the way. Half note a 132 with a ton of eighth note runs. Our brass don't play much in that song. Yeah, a lot of the songs are geared more towards brass, but the higher the grade level, the more technical it can get for the woodwinds. Especially songs like Esprit de Corps, Incantation and Dance, or March from Symphonic Metamorphosis.

Runs, arppegios, and etc aren't actually that hard on winds actually (though I wouldn't suggest anyone to abuse it or use it much as it can exhaust amateurs and students in longer pieces and the performer's fingerworks wouldn't be as developed). :mellow: Once you get enough air in, your tongue works naturally, so it's all up to your fingerworks. Furthermore, runs and arps are usually ornamentations for brass melodies or solos that would stand out.

Perhaps try and give the low brass some moving notes. Give the song some energy.

Runs, arppegios, and etc aren't actually that hard on winds actually .Furthermore, runs and arps are usually ornamentations for brass melodies or solos that would stand out.

So true -_-.


Perhaps try and give the low brass some moving notes. Give the song some energy.

Already considering that. I want the theme to be smooth (which is the reason for all of the slur marks, then try to change it somehow during the variations.

:P Who wants to guess one thing that is true about every song that I've made, even the 4-measured excerpts?... :think: I wonder if anyone even noticed. *Hint: It has NOTHING to do with the instrumentation. If you figure this out, you'll know why I can't compose very well.

Update.

*Somewhat Random Trumpet Part... don't expect it to flow very well (I don't think it does either :bleh: ).

*Sorry for Double Post: Another Update.

COMMENTS NEEDED!

Which transition do all of you prefer? (this and previous post)

Uh... what's with this atonal thing? :mellow: As much as I like quasi-atonal or even pure atonal music, I find yours very clashy and unorganized. Therefore, I prefer your first one better.

I second Sir's motion :bleh: I see what you're trying to do in the second one, but don't do it that way (I wouldn't know how to get that effect myself, so no suggestions yet).

Title suggestions
- Stargazing
- something with Dream(s) in the title

;) It's really up to you to find the right title...

;) It's really up to you to find the right title...

I may keep it the same...

Dissonance in this one, is it used correctly?

No. These aren't called dissonances. Dissonances are used logically in both tonal and atonal music following form, melody, harmony or etc... But I only hear a bunch of notes slammed together. So no, take it all off. I would reccomend you to stay away from 'dissonances'. Dissonances aren't the only way to create tension, there are other ways.

Just noticed again... :mellow: my "straight forward" style :P . (I wonder why it takes me a while to figure it out XD). Will post update soon...

Perhaps try a counter melody with another woodwind when the oboe is playing the solo. Or have one of the brass to a counter melody. Make the music say, listen to me, not your neighbor, but me.

Perhaps try a counter melody with another woodwind when the oboe is playing the solo. Or have one of the brass to a counter melody.

I was thinking about that, but I'm in a case of "writer's block" (no ideas :heh: ). That's why it's sort of "crumbled". I'm basically putting every idea I have in right now. *I'm coming up with a piano reduction of this piece, just to make it easier on myself x_x . I'm better at arranging than composing directly for a large band/orchestra.

*Expect a double post...

Perhaps look for other music over the internet. Listen to that to help with the writer's block.

I wouldn't suggest to make a piano reduction. I mean, what's the point? I think it's just taking more of your precious time. :mellow: Oh, another mistake I found with your piece: when the oboe was playing, you have the flutes and piccolo on top of it, and since you said there's only one oboe, expect it to sound weak and poor in dynamics. And having flutes playing softer than pianissimo at that register isn't a bright idea either.

*New Intro. No Piano Reduction will be made.
Who wants to guess one thing that is true about every song that I've made, even the 4-measured excerpts?... If anyone figures this out, they will finally know why I am so bad at composing. The instrumentation has nothing to do with it. Anyone still want to guess? I will reveal it tomorrow (or I may extend it). You can make more than 1 guess, just insert it in a spoiler quote. ;)

Here are the numbers on the instrument players:

1 Picc./Fl.
6 Flutes (Will be split 3-3 (in terms of parts))
1 Oboe
7 Clarinets (Split 4-3)
1 Bass Clarinet
2 Alto Sax I
2 Alto Sax II
Tenor Sax (director wants it in unison)
1 Baritone Sax
4 Trumpet I
4 Trumpet II
~
The director wanted 4 French horn parts, but I just decided to split it 2-2.
~
Baritone (Horn) in unison (2)
2 Trombone I
3 Trombone II
2 Tubas (in unison)
~
And of course, the 8 percussionists :bleh: .

I'm planning on splitting it as:

3 Snare Drums
1 Bells
1 Wind Chimes
1 Bass Drum

The percussion parts are still incomplete in terms of grouping, as you may see.

Any disagreement, let me know. Most of this arranging was from my director.

Very nice... sorry but im our of time now but ill give you my report of this song soon :)

*and i found this page through your "urgent" signature lol

*
3 Snare Drums
1 Bells
1 Wind Chimes
1 Bass Drum

The percussion parts are still incomplete in terms of grouping, as you may see.

Any disagreement, let me know. Most of this arranging was from my director.

Why would you need 3 snare players? You just have one drum, you're not gonna chop it in three now, are you? I rather you have 3 bells (one playing glockenspiel, one playing marimba, and one playing xylophone) than 3 snares alternating. Secondly, your opening four bars in your newest update sounds out of context and unnecessary.

Thanks for comments, but if you didn't notice, I have to arrange for 8 percussionists, not 6 (which is why I stated it was incomplete).

Meas. 10: Are the roman numerals in the clarinet part notated correctly? I've never used numerals.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

I just had to be sick yesterday :bleh: .

Since no one will guess, I might as well say it: -_- Every song I have written has been in a minor key. It has been a very bad habit for me. When I try to write something in G major, it just ends up in E minor, and so on... It's pretty hard for me. :cry:

For your question: just use the term 'div. a 2'. Roman numerals are generally used in multiple solos in a section.

And it doesn't matter if you just compose in minor key. As long as you are satisfied with it, who cares if it's in microtone, minor, Dorian mode or whatever? :mellow:

*digs out old idea, and adds clarinet part*

So what I did was at the "transitioning part" that I am stuck at, I added a few ideas (note that there are no bass parts yet). It's only what I could think of in 5 minutes :lol: . Comments Please.

Yes, this sounds much better, but it's stilll weak in harmonization.

Update... again. But I don't know how Marimba works (one hand for bass clef, one for treble?).

The new part of the theme; not finished yet. ;)

The marimba is no different from your other mallet instruments. It just have a greater length and more professional players can use 2 sticks per hand, and that's why it has a grand staff.

~~~

Your last two/three bars still bug me... That chromatic thingy.

I changed some stuff that I thought would sound better a certain way. Also, a suggestion for what to do next: repeat the first theme and use the chord progression from the intro instead of the one from where the full-blown theme was played. The latter was kind of boring, and it didn't move the piece very much. The chord progression from the intro built up and released tension in a much more interesting fashion.

Edit: I got bored and I played around with some more stuff.

Edit2: I also attached the file that's edited the way you asked.

Thanks for the help :) .

Ok. Here's what I have of the theme. At that last measure, I'm going to put in trills (it's almost like my first idea), and go to Theme I. And, yes, I do know that the Timpani pitch does not match the other bass instruments a few measures before the last. ;)

I just realized how you had bass drum every beat after the first 8 bars. Get that out before you regret it. ._. Even though you assigned it to play at piano, trust me, it won't be piano when you put it in the real band. Your bass will drown out. I will critique more later.

And what happened to the harmony in measure 24? You had some great richness and counterpoint going there, and then it just stopped. Add some harmony in the bells to give it some richness, and (one again) to bring in some harmony in the sections where fewer instruments are playing. In measure 34 I would suggest adding the leading tone to the chord.

I'm not sure about the new theme. Keep developing it, but remember: make sure you have all the chord tones present wherever possible so you don't suddenly lose the texture of the rest of the piece.

New trills= too sudden?

Comments Please. If no one noticed, the deadline is extended. :)

Your deadline keeps posponing itself :think:

The song sounds better now, I like the counter-point in the woodwind. The final part (the incomplete one) came in just fine, but I would suggest that you use a better bang when it makes its entry. Like a hard cymbal crash or something.

Sounds pretty nice so far. :heh:

Your deadline keeps posponing itself :think:

The song sounds better now, I like the counter-point in the woodwind. The final part (the incomplete one) came in just fine, but I would suggest that you use a better bang when it makes its entry. Like a hard cymbal crash or something.

About the deadline :heh:: yes, I had to ask for an extension. Again :P . But I will finish it this time!

I was thinking about that too, and thanks for the idea ^_^.

And while I'm at it, could you give out more staccato? I know it doesn't fit in the beginning, but it seems you could add it into the latter parts?

I'm planning on it...

Might as well tell how I'm forming this:

1. Theme: legato, smooth, with bass not overpowering much. The "lighter" instruments have the melody most of the time.
2. Var. I: Exact opposite; staccatos, accents, etc...
3. Var. II: Percussion Feature?
4. Var. III: Mix up the theme a bit... more like Var. I + Theme for the last variation.

No, having the woodwinds all crammed and jumbled in the same register is a horrible idea (I'm talking about bar 21 and that phrase). I don't you think really want that 'organ' effect that you're gettinig right now, therefore you should change it somehow. Secondly, having oboe playing pianissimo is like asking a dog to eat sand: it doesn't make sense. Oboes should not go beyond piano in dynamics, the reason being it's gonna be VERY costing on your oboist and it's gonna easily get out of tune. Thirdly, your transition thing is still awkward, don't do what you're doing, if you really want to go into another key, a neat trick that works well is going to the dominant of your original key.

:P I wasn't planning on switching keys. It's just that I couldn't think of what note to put next on the clarinet part after the oboe solo (where the clarinets play 4 notes). But this idea is probably worse :P .

The "organ" effect was done on purpose. (note the clarinet notes in the 2nd part.)

Comments...

(I can always look back.)

The "organ" effect was done on purpose. (note the clarinet notes in the 2nd part.)


If so, then I feel that it's out of context for a concert band piece. And I see you still didn't take my advice about the bass drum. Furthermore, around bar 39, I felt that your counterpoint was only all about the harmony; in another words, it felt unmusical. It doesn't matter if a D clashes with a C# if it does make it musical (and to realize the fact that my favourite interval is major 7th and I use it extensively but yet people don't usually realize that it's a clashing note). So you shouldn't be afraid to have dissonants in your contrapuntal writing. But don't overdo it, like the try you had before.

For Bass Drum, all I could do was insert rests here and there :heh: .

Do remove some of the bass drum. It just doesn't work well after the music shifts to the oboe solo. There will be four clarinets on first part? If anything, create a third part for the clarinets. Also, having four trumpets on one part might be a bit much as well. Have you thought about writing a cornet part?

I still suggest you put some chords in the Glockenhoweveryouspellit (XD) like I suggested when I last posted a change. In the new section, make sure that even when you only have two voices that you try not to overuse any unison, especially where there's an accidental on a note. I made some changes, but only in places where I worked on before that needed to be reworked a bit.

:P Not much changed in this one. I don't have much time nowadays...

So, I am running very low on ideas :\ . I am borrowing a score (yes, a full band score) of a song tomorrow (as you can see, VERY low on ideas). All I can ever listen to is Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherezade" (sp?) 1st, 2nd, and 3rd movements :heh: .

Oh my god... Harp presenting the melody in piano without any enhancement with the entire string orchestra playing?!?! No. It doesn't work this way. The harp will die, I'm telling you. And it's very poor in orchestration because of that. And no, playing A flat minor on strings is NOT fun. You're just getting on the string players' nerves. What's wrong with the 3 tonic notes doubling in octaves in the first chord?! Not good. Your bass part is very weak (with cello playing inversions, trust me, your piece will sound weird). No. This piece cannot work this way.

Oh my god... Harp presenting the melody in piano without any enhancement with the entire string orchestra playing?!?! No. It doesn't work this way. The harp will die, I'm telling you. And it's very poor in orchestration because of that. And no, playing A flat minor on strings is NOT fun. You're just getting on the string players' nerves. What's wrong with the 3 tonic notes doubling in octaves in the first chord?! Not good. Your bass part is very weak (with cello playing inversions, trust me, your piece will sound weird). No. This piece cannot work this way.

Okay then :heh:. It's not to be performed anyway -_-.

Update (on concert band)...

Good harmonies! Still a bit thin near the end. I just wanted you to change one thing in the intro that I noticed, one thing on the last two measures, and one thing in measure 29:

1) in the intro, in the flute, where you have the parallel fourths in measure three (that's not including the pickup measure), I would move the c down to an ab.
2) On the last two measures, change the Clarinet in Bb2 to read ab(quarter), g(half), e natural (dotted half).
3)in measures 28 and 29, the instruments cadenced on a unison. To avoid this, to make the voice leading better, and to make the harmony more interesting, it would be better to make the notes c, bb, and ab, instead of c, g, and f.

I think I'm rushing a bit...

Comments Please.

*I feel like the new French Horn part I added is "out of order". :\

EDIT: MP3 PROVIDED! The due date is in about... 2 weeks?

First off, change the bass drum. It doesn't truly fit. In the beginning it does, but then, it no longer fits at about measure number 17. Perhaps make it bells, bass drum, triangle. Or ... give it some kind of rhythm. Something that says, hey listen to me, but still makes the melody important.

Your music at measures 38 through 42 seems a bit forced. The notes don't fit right. Adjust it slightly to fit the music better.

1) in the intro, in the flute, where you have the parallel fourths in measure three (that's not including the pickup measure), I would move the c down to an ab.

For some reason you moved it to a bb instead of an ab,which sounds bad, but then the next note is an ab which needed to stay at the g (where you had it originally).

I'm not really a fan of what you did with the glockenspiel in the first section, either. It sounds weird when it doubles the rhythm and sometimes the notes of the melody.

The trill section is cool, but it doesn't necessarily fit with the rest of the piece...

I'll switch the glockenspiel and the bass drum part soon...

(The xylophone timbre is really starting to annoy me. Any ideas?)

:lol: The trills- just a random idea I thought of in order to "recall" the theme again.

You're working with MIDI, of course everything is annoying.

That three bars before the clarinet does the long trill bugs me. Why? It felt too homogeneous and unfitting for your piece. As for your tuba in bar 9, that C, make it an octave lower, having three instruments in unison will just bring more tuning problems. And I still don't understand how people don't understand the fact that all instruments are different depending on weather, and all that and will not always play in tune.

And I still don't understand how people don't understand the fact that all instruments are different depending on weather, and all that and will not always play in tune.

:P If it's cold, instruments usually get flat, and the warmer it gets, the higher the pitch is. If every instrument was perfectly tuned (on pitch) at all times, there would be no use for ear training.


Okay, since I'm low on ideas :heh:, I'm posting an experiment (meaning that it will not be performed in any way, and it's basically a "demo"). I am bad at composing for piano, and I might as well get to some of the basics.

I am bad at using 4-5 note chords (my worst enemy in the "piano department" :P ). Don't expect it to sound great :\ , it's just a demo.

It's basically 4-5 note chord practice.

Oh my god. One of my biggest taboo when writing for piano music is NEVER to put a heck load of pedal when you have heck loads of chords in the bass. It's really yucky in the bass right now.

@_@ Oh. I thought that the "no pedal" rule only concerned fast notes.

New EXPERIMENT. It's not a Full String Orchestra+ Clarinet, it's 2 Violins, 1 Viola, and 1 Cello + Clarinet ;) .

Not much change on the band piece though... :\ Only the few measures before the few trills.

COMMENTS NEEDED! Not much time left :\. Or I can just go until the 30th...

Oh my god. One of my biggest taboo when writing for piano music is NEVER to put a heck load of pedal when you have heck loads of chords in the bass. It's really yucky in the bass right now.
Also remember that in finale you need to use the pedal lift articulation (the star-looking thing), not just put another pedal mark.

OK, I don't like the new measures before the trills at all.

OK, I don't like the new measures before the trills at all.

Ditto. Seriously, don't do any weird accidentals unless you're really sure about it.

I'll get back to the band piece~ as soon as I get ideas :heh: .

Another EXPERIMENT. It doesn't sound well :P . But I'm starting to use 2nd intervals (in the same chord), 4ths, and 7ths. So here's just a practice run. Just a random piece :heh: .

Uh... I don't see anything at all. Are you trying to be a John Cage now?

XD No. I've only heard of that one piece he made called "2 minutes, 15 seconds" (or something like that). It's just a random idea. :P The thing is, I'm only used to using 3rds and 6th chords (7th chords if necessary; example: the minor and major chords).

No. The point is: I see a blank score when I opened your file. :mellow:

Me too.

Let's try this again... :sweat: It's just an experiment :P (just using chords, and some stuff here and there). It's not going to sound good :P . Also, in NO WAY will it be performed. It looks too difficult :P .

1.) It's not impossible to be performed; actually, it's quite easy.
2.) Since you're saying it's bad already, then I don't need to comment. But really, if you say this is an experiment and is bad, what's the point of posting it then?
3.) Uh... Again with posting things without the arranger/composer's permissioin? :mellow:

:P The Concerto thing is something I got at a public thing... (see Music Discussion). The law~ 70 years after a composer's death~ it enters into some "Public Domain" .

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I just need comments on how the chords are used... (as noted in the file name)

:P The Concerto thing is something I got at a public thing... (see Music Discussion). The public law~ 70 years after a composer's death~ it enters into some "Public Domain" .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

I just need comments on how the chords are used... (as noted in the file name)

I know the composer's law thing; but still, the arranger is not dead. It's copyrighted to the arranger since it's an arrangement. :mellow:

As for your other problem; well, your chords are, to put it bluntly, used in quite a dull manner. Why? That's cos they're all chords. It's all like 'bangbangbang'.

As usual, low on ideas :\ and doesn't sound well. But I have a band score I can study off (finally; too many orchestral scores -_- ). The clarinet chromatic part is where it just loses it :\ .

If chromatic is such a pain, then don't use it.

Woah, total weirdness at the end.

Just so you know, the reason why the e natural, which isn't part of the key signature, doesn't sound weird and chromatic is because it really isn't. It's something that happens in functional harmony as part of the minor scale, which is the raised leading tone so as to create a stronger pull to the next chord (usually the tonic, or a deceptive cadence).

If any of that didn't make sense, just PM me.

I don't really get what you said, but how I thought of using the E natural is because it's part of the harmonic minor scale (rather, than the natural minor scale).

In functional harmony, you would raise the seventh tone of the minor scale, especially when approaching a cadence or a i chord. This creates a pull to the listener towards the next chord that would not be there to anywhere near the same degree if it wasn't raised. This means that most of the time when you see a dominant chord in a minor key, it will be a major triad. It is called "harmonic" minor because it would not be normally used for melody or for scales, but it would be used when creating chords in that key.

The other chromatic tones, if they don't contribute to some sort of modulation or other logical type of change in tonal center, sound strange and out of place in songs where the rest of the song has been tonal.

I did a bit of study on deceptive cadences...

Comments please (weird chromatic part- not taken out yet; need ideas...) The trills at the last few measures are NOT the melody.

It sounds good, but it seems too thin. I tried this at measures 28-30. It probably doesn't fit with what you originally had in mind, but I feel you need more moments like these in your piece.

@porschegtiii: WTF? Random burst of all the instruments underneath drowning out the quiet melody of that part!!!

Hey clarinetist, I still think you need to stop trying to experiment with key changes and chromatic tones, because it still just sounds weird.

Hey clarinetist, I still think you need to stop trying to experiment with key changes and chromatic tones, because it still just sounds weird.

You're probably right about that x_x . I'm trying to do a relatively simple one though ("changing into the dominant of the first key signature"). -_-

Measure 55- I know it's bad timing :P .

Comments please (mistakes on triangle part -_- ).

Meh, again, I'm not in a mood to comment today, but I'll do this real quick: wow, the new section totally didn't make sense in my ears.

lol, I love your composition. It really give a sad and lonely feeling. I see you did many edition, you are really putting your effort to this song aren't you?

The percussion seems to be the one that stands out too much, I really think it would sound better, since this is Orcestral composition, to use tipany instead of other type of drums, and try to lower the tipany pitch and play around with its dynamic.

lol, I love your composition. It really give a sad and lonely feeling.

I can't believe it took so long for people to figure this out :P . Basically, it's sort of scary (in my opinion), but people know my feelings through my compositions. :P Make assumptions if needed.

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Anyone know of any good Romantic Era pieces (that are very expressive)? I've heard Beethoven's "Egmont Overture" and Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherezade" .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:\ Not much. Again. Just a 2-measured Alto Sax part.

~Update...



Anyone know of any good Romantic Era pieces (that are very expressive)? I've heard Beethoven's "Egmont Overture" and Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherezade" . <_<

That transition is still weird and your new part in your first variation is also weird in harmony. Same thing: stop using those weird harmonies.

As for your question, you should try looking for yourself... Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Berlioz, Schumann, Verdi and Faure comes to mind if you really want to look. :mellow: Another point: I wouldn't really consider Beethoven a romantic composer.

Measure 35-36 is weird (I'm guessing because of the harmony because I see what you're trying to do, which you should keep).

The transition was weird... Take out that bar of rest and have the trills dim. and cresc. the next measure (swell it).

I see what people are talking about. Your melody line is fine, actually, it's really good because I see the theme and stuff. Your harmonies are the ones that're killing this piece. Change the weird ones.

EDIT: I don't know if I kept what you've wanted to do here, but...

:bleh: I've been using "close intervals" too much x_x .

Meas. 35-36; better, but it's still very close to how I had it.

At the 2/4 part, the reason why I gave the French Horns a different part (than the harmonies in the Alto Sax part) was because I don't want to "recall" the same thing over again. :heh: But on the Alto Sax part, the "close intervals" were done on purpose (must be getting annoying, huh? :sweat: ).

In about 10-12 hours from now, another will be posted...


Another point: I wouldn't really consider Beethoven a romantic composer.

Well, yes, most of his life he was a Classical composer, but his compositions got more "romantic" when the "romantic movement" started. I think that Egmont Overture was created in the romantic era... :think:

"Tinkered" around with percussion a bit (maybe a bit much? :think: ). Still have yet to fix harmonies.

Now that I think about it :think: , the new section is QUITE random... :heh: . Meas. 66~ I know that high A is high (+ fast grace notes), but note that it says "may be omitted"... :P Just to test the clarinet players' ranges/technique. I can hit that, but I doubt anyone else in this band can...

USES 2006!

I must say, I don't really like much after measure 33. There are little melodic places in there that I like. If you're going to go with weird harmonies, I would make sure that the counterpoint is strong. Also, I would suggest always cadencing with the lowest playing instrument playing the root of the chord (whatever chord you cadence with). I also don't think you should have slowed it down...

A bit (not much) more change. The weird clarinet chromatic part I split into 4ths. Just to make it easier on myself, I'm having the second variation be the last one (which will be made soon)...

USES 2006!

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~Also, an arrangement of "Zelda: Ocarina of Time; Hyrule Field" for Piano and Cello (cello as solo instrument). :P Not well done in my opinion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, and I'm just curious: how do/did all of you teach yourself composition? It may help me, because I am self-taught, and there is not much theory taught in my school. ( :P Only music we have are the band and choir classes. No theory classes.)

Same comment as before: the few bars before your transition is still very weird. It also felt a little thin after your transition; it doesn't seem to want to move forward. But hey, since you have a deadline, I don't think it's too bright if you keep posting it, since I'm sure many people who comments on it will kind of get in your workflow, so I'd think you should work with what you think is right from now on.

As for your other question... How did I teach myself? For most of the basics, I did a bunch of massive reading and memorizing. I also did a lot of test and trial stuff... And I also grabbed every possible opportunity to get my compositions displayed, commented and etc... Also, it's important to practise composition often. Listening to a lot of music also helps... Though I wouldn't really analyze everything like people would think you should, since it really strains your creativity, but there are many other things I did to learn compositions.

~Updates will not be posted after March 3rd. :P
~It may not be a Theme and Variations at all; I will probably need instructor approval. The form will be (just to make it easier on myself) (Theme---- Key Change in dominant--- Theme (with few differences)).

~I would like to thank everyone for their honest comments :) . :P After March 19th, I will be out of this forum for the time being, until the summer; to do some BETTER studying this time, now that I know that having the score in front of you while listening strains your creativity :P. (But it helped... a bit XD ).

The new transition is better :) but you should keep the old Var. I, as time really is an issue and you don't have enough to omit parts (change it around a little and it'll be all good). Measure 43-48 seems like the perfect spot for the snare drum (43: roll; 44-47: quarter note, eighth note, eighth note, quarter note roll; 48: quarter note).

In about a week/2 weeks from now, I'll be out of the forum for the time being.

This may be most of it. I'm switching to F minor again, "recalling the theme" with some differences.

(@_@ The slow theme, I just realized, repeats once too much- where it notes 70 beats/min).

~Never Mind. I might as well post it up when it's finished :P .

But isn't March 1 tomorrow? Unless you asked for another extension @_@

^Another extension :P . Just a four-day one, though.

Ok. Here's the near-final copy of this song. :P It could've been better, I know.

I'll probably post one or two more updates, then I'm FINISHED!

~Note that this is a "student" composition.

( :o It's starting to sound a bit "orchestral" at the last few measures... not a good thing).

It's very impressive for a student composition, but I can see that many people won't like it because it doesn't go anywhere--gets really repeditive and quite boring; sounds like it should be used as background music for Guild Wars or something.

What I'm saying is that this is very background music-ish- not much of a composition for a concert or something. :(

It's very impressive for a student composition, but I can see that many people won't like it because it doesn't go anywhere--gets really repeditive and quite boring; sounds like it should be used as background music for Guild Wars or something.

What I'm saying is that this is very background music-ish- not much of a composition for a concert or something. :(

Oh. I've noticed that... a lot -_-. Could it be a lack of climax(es)? :\ I don't know what kind of music to study; too much early-classical... may be the cause of the "straight form" I've been composing in.

~~~~~~~~

I'm close. :P Just a lack of climaxes. Does anyone know the style that's in the OPPOSITE of Classical (Mozart) Music, in terms of structure?

~~~~~~~~

@_@ Interesting Garritan tutorial on structure...

Actually, that part where you added in the snare drum where I suggested? That was kind of climax-ish. Try to put more of those in here or there (somewhere before a quiet solo/delicate part to contrast better). Your recent kaboom of ideas are pretty good, stick to them and it'll turn out great :)

Style opposite of Classical? I have no clue...free-form jazz? :mellow:

Style opposite of Classical? I have no clue...free-form jazz? :mellow:

I might as well admit it: I do NOT like Jazz, Rock, or Pop :P . So there is obviously NO way I will be composing in that style.

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So it's not much of a lack of climaxes, it's more like this- My song is basically "straight"?


If ^ is it, I'm trying to fix it. :P *is currently reading a tutorial on structure--- mentions how to stop boredom :P *


For the supporters of "absolute" music, formal perfection rested on musical expression that obeys the schematics laid down in previous works, most notably the sonata form then being codified.

Ooh... interesting @_@ . I was always bad at using the sonata form (bad development :bleh: ).


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ok. So I thought about the last few measures. It DOES sound like a video game :( ...

Major change in the measure numbers in the 60's.

Wow, early-classical? Way off--completely off!

This is boring because your theme is boring, and your first variation is actually slower that it's original. It makes people want to leave and go do something more interesting--or at least skip this piece and listen so some horrible un-creativity of James Swearingen.

Sorry Clarinetest, but this is so very boring to listen to--it's too slow for what you are trying to convey as a piece to listen to. x_x

*I am literally, going to start from scratch again x_x . But I can probably finish faster. I'll probably look at my first idea, and somehow combine this one and my first one.

*I'm starting to get it; Measure 10 (after the Flutes/Piccolo including the pickup measure) is where it completely loses it. It needs a better intro :P (I'll probably use the "trill" idea from the first idea I had).

*My songs = a "straight line" = boring. :bleh: I've found a tutorial on structure :) .

*Probably going to rush through it today, and thinking about specific details later.

*I hope Vivace isn't too fast :unsure: .


It makes people want to leave and go do something more interesting--or at least skip this piece and listen so some horrible un-creativity of James Swearingen.

Oh. I've listened to a lot of his stuff :bleh: . (Actually, I was using his stuff for Concert Band study). Problem? :sweat: :spray: :frusty:

Great intro there! Wish I could have written that actually. :bleh:

Lol, and don't just go by my comments, but I am happy you take advice from a, now, "secretive" composer and harsh critic. ;)

^:o I just realized that intro (first 4 measures) is VERY similar (not exact) to a song I've been studying x_x ... ("Gypsy Dance" by Joseph Compello).

I also just realized that this is my first song in a "compound meter".

~Another update. @_@ Explosion of ideas lately... in 5/4. I'm lucky we're also playing a song in Band class that's in 5/4 :) .

+ it needs a better title :bleh: .

Sorry for DP...

Great job!

This is very nice materal here--very boss music orientated in my opinion; I think a boss music comment is more of a positive too since getting that texture and bounce to it takes a good idea to be developed.

Impressed--keep it up.

Here you go.

^Thanks deathraider. Apparently, the Glockenspiel staff was showing up as if you were to transpose it for Alto Sax -.- .

Wow, it basically was "Gypsy Dance" with a few changes here and there (not to say it wasn't good, though). I personally think you should've kept your old theme, as you don't have the time to experiment anymore (unless you asked for another extension). All you needed was some tweaking in the old one (Orchestrated "No Title") or even the one before that (the chromatic/mordent thingy). But, if you wanted to start over, okay. You could change the title to ____ Etude (dealing with the time signature) or something like that since 5/4 is a pretty occasional time signature (it's gonna be hard to play that in 5/4), unless you change the time signature (when the trumpets come in, it'll be easier if it's in 6/8 + 2/4, like "Gypsy Dance."

Wow, it basically was "Gypsy Dance" with a few changes here and there (not to say it wasn't good, though). I personally think you should've kept your old theme, as you don't have the time to experiment anymore (unless you asked for another extension). All you needed was some tweaking in the old one (Orchestrated "No Title") or even the one before that (the chromatic/mordent thingy). But, if you wanted to start over, okay. You could change the title to ____ Etude (dealing with the time signature) or something like that since 5/4 is a pretty occasional time signature (it's gonna be hard to play that in 5/4), unless you change the time signature (when the trumpets come in, it'll be easier if it's in 6/8 + 2/4, like "Gypsy Dance."

First of all, I was not purposely copying "Gypsy Dance" :P (not that I think that you think I did). Finale will not let me use "irregular time signatures", so I had to use 5/4. Oh, there's more coming soon, just wait ;) .

Most of this song, if anyone's noticed, is/will be based on:

~The 2 ideas I had
~"Gypsy Dance" ( Obvious. :bleh:...)
~A concert band piece that my band has played~ "Con Brio" (in 5/4)... the trumpet part has SOME of the theme from this piece.

So, basically, I've decided to combine all of my studies and ideas :) . :P But the intro is too much like "Gypsy Dance"'s intro.

I could not tweak that last idea very well :\ . Like I mentioned in the post above, Meas. 10 of that idea is where it completely lost it... and that repeating smooth effect made it sound too boring. :\

More to come...

EDIT: Oh, and about the deadline :\ . He just wants it done by next week (due to bad weather :P... school may be canceled. Again).


(when the trumpets come in, it'll be easier if it's in 6/8 + 2/4, like "Gypsy Dance."

As mentioned above, that same theme (almost the same, actually) is from a piece titled "Con Brio", which is in 5/4, so it shouldn't be too hard for the band (as they have already played "Con Brio").

Not a lot of exciting harmony, and there's a lot of unisons, but it's exciting.

Here's the first part of the "Compound Meter Etude".

hmm....i like it =) measures 4-7 something seems to be out of place though i dont know what it its but it sounds kind of wierd....but if u can posibly fix that then i think it will be a great song.

Compound Meter Etude was really amazing, I'd love to hear the rest.

Balancing Etude was great as well.

sorry messed up didn't mean to put this one.

What I really want to know is, is the first part too short? Because I will be inserting a "B" part after this. :unsure:

By first part do you mean movement? If it's one part of a movement, then I would think it is fine, but for a whole movement it's kind of short.

Oh, I'm not splitting it into movements :P . (That stuff usually happens in classical music).

It's just a part of a song. The basic form of this piece will be:

"A"- The part you just heard
"B"- smooth, soft... opposite of "A"
"C"- Combination of "A" and "B".

*Same question as above...

Yaay! You've posted the mp3!
To be honest, I don't know anything about composing.. :heh:
But at least I can say that I like it. :D
It sounds like some battle theme and I think the length (of this first part) is just right.

Hehe that sounds so zelda the windwaker, I love it =)

Attempting to add a "B" part. I extended the "A" part a bit. MP3 included (sig also updated).

:\ But the "B" part could be better. It's not finished yet.

Compound Meter Etude sounded messy. Although it worked, the ideas were all jumbled up, and it sounded like they were forced to flow. The new section has a dissonance that I know probably wasn't intended (towards the end). Nice transition, though.

The dissonance was intended actually. :P Music has got to have dissonance sometime.

~About 1/2 of the B part added... and some possible new "A" part elements (I apologize for the weird Flute + Piccolo 32nd note chromatic ascending part, it sounds too loud :\ ).

Compound Meter Etude sounded messy. Although it worked, the ideas were all jumbled up, and it sounded like they were forced to flow. The new section has a dissonance that I know probably wasn't intended (towards the end). Nice transition, though.

Man, get more creative. Music isn't all melody then harmony accompianent.

Expand your musical boundaries.

I know... :P Too much unison... it sounds like I only have 2 harmonies:

Whole note--- eighth note---etc...

Then the weird bass part (quarter-eighth-quarter)

or there's trills... -_-

I was considering chromatics (16th notes), but it's too fast (since the woodwinds are the only players in the band that can play chromatics this fast, I didn't want to. The group is used enough already :P ).

Triplets may be a bit difficult...

:P I'll have to consider eighth notes and/or dotted eighth/sixteenth note pattern(s)...

or make up a weird rhythm ( ^_^ If I do, it will help come up with a percussion part, which I am the WORST at :bleh: ).

(new post will be coming in about 12 hrs...)


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I doubt anyone noticed, but if you have been listening to all of my songs (since I made this thread), the "B" part sounds familiar, which is why the dissonance was intended.

Heh, you actually accomplished in making a somewhat genuine intense song! Something I've been trying to do as well, with less success :) The black/white contrast you used is something I truly enjoy (First intense, then calm). With this song I'd say you've achieved +1 skill point in composing :) It's a piece which stands out a bit apart from your (in my opinion) mediocre work, seen from my view.

I will fix "A" up a bit... "B" is finished. Some of "C" was added; a percussion feature, trying to bring back the theme from "A" again.

The 6/4 meter change to 5/4 may sound a bit messy/aggressive/out of place to some people, which is actually intended.

The theme(s) from the "B" part were not repeated, as I did in "Balancing Etude", to avoid repetition.

I am nearing completion; have to fix some harmony issues in "A", then add the rest of "C".

That is some great stuff there clari. I'm completely in love with it. I love those atonal chords and melodies.

It's a great song for sure--just one thing to say:

Add some melody and foreshadowing in the middle of that slow section you got there--make some instruments move along with the melody too, it kinda falls apart there.

Good luck there, bud. ^.^

EDIT - I'm actually thinking about making a technically-difficult Etude for Varsity's Band last concert in May. Heh, I got some great ideas for them to shit over. Ha!

:P I wanted to put more chromatics in, but it may be too challenging. Might as well put it in soon :shifty: .

Added a crescendo before "C".

Added more of "C". *An experiment with special effects (glissando, chromatics, and trills at once).

@_@ 3 More Days. I doubt it will be perfect :P, but this is how most of it will be...

Another update...

COMMENTS PLEASE!

~The final draft/copy, for sure, will be posted tomorrow! :\ (Expect around 11:00 AM U.S. CST.)...

Hmmm...I wish you'd take a few of the clashes out in the section with the old theme in it.

Make better use of the triangle (like in "Gypsy Dance" with that flute soli? Nothing in your song resembles that part, but I still think it could be used during some of the delicate parts with little/no percussion). It would fit nicely if used with this song (maybe the part before B starts, with only the harmony playing?). Eighth notes w/ accents would work well if you don't have any ideas :)

Just a suggestion.

I'll comment when you get done with the piece. All I'm gonna say now is that this piece is really good--hopefully your Timpianist can adjust that quicky. :bleh:

I'll comment when you get done with the piece. All I'm gonna say now is that this piece is really good--hopefully your Timpianist can adjust that quicky. :bleh:

About the timpani- do you mean how the player will have to switch between the notes really fast?

~:P I'll be gone at a birthday party, so I'll post it later :sweat: .

A POSSIBLE ending. Lots of dissonance involved, and weird harmonies. I placed some of the theme from my first idea in this.

~It's most likely not going to be it; depending on comments. The most surprising part is that not much of it ends in F. On the fermata for some reason, it only holds the percussion long.

Note: Uses 2006.

I don't really like the second run for the solo at the end. May change the second one a little so that it's not like the first. Maybe you should try a crescendo on the roll right before the solo, and then have the soloist come in softer with a quick crescendo up on the first note; I think it will just leave a bigger impact.

Happy late Birthday

I don't really like the second run for the solo at the end. May change the second one a little so that it's not like the first. Maybe you should try a crescendo on the roll right before the solo, and then have the soloist come in softer with a quick crescendo up on the first note; I think it will just leave a bigger impact. Happy late Birthday Thanks, and which solo(s) are you refering to? :\ I thought I took the runs off, or were you refering to the chromatic scale? Did you listen to the .mus file above? ~Acatually, I'm going to post a new ending soon... :sweat:

The solo on 90-92 oboe, yeah it's chromatic, but if you aren't going to use it, then I guess it's okay.

Oh, nice ending, although I wish after that the difector would wait like 3 seconds and do two sFFz chords. :heh:

Another POSSIBLE ending. (Attempt #2~ with MP3).

Just let me know what all of you like better; first or second attempt, or rather, a combination of both :) . Be as picky as possible, as I will be e-mailing my teacher this file early Monday/Tuesday. As it may be implied, all criticism is accepted! After this composition is finished, I will be leaving the composition part for the time being... (and work on my LONG list of sheet music requests @_@ ).

Also included- MP3 of Attempt #1.

NOTE: The ending in Attempt #2, I realize, is nearly the same as "Gypsy Dance" :bleh: .

COMMENTS PLEASE!

The noticeable differences between the two attempts:

Well, attempt #2 "recalls" the theme from "A". The Bb Clarinet part is put up an octave to increase intensity at times, to make it different from "A".

Yeah the second one is a lot better. :sweat:

:yawn: I might as well go with the second part...

*I will be asking for "Range/Notation check(s)" in Composing General Chat later. ;) (More likely for Baritone, Trombone, Tuba, Tenor Sax, and Baritone Sax).

*begins extraction of parts*

Oh, a little FYI: You'll need 2007 for the individual parts.

In my opinion, the clashes in measures 46, and 49 impede, in my opinion, on the movement of the B section, so you might want to take it out or change it. Also, on the very end, I think you put the French horn on a note that you didn't mean to, because that note really detracts from the effectiveness and finality of the ending. The clash is ok for those four repeated chords in the third to last measure, but on the second to last and last measure it needs to resolve somehow so that on the ending chord you can have a cadence (preferably to me with open fifths).

*Clashes fixed. Tried to do a F Minor cadence (the ending one). But unfortunately, this is the final one :P .

--Let me know anything I could've changed; anything that seems to be a big deal ;) .

Edited...

Sounds really good, hope your director likes it clari.

Much better, thank you!

Sounds really good, hope your director likes it clari.

It's already a "hit" in my school. In only one day too (too many clicks in my school web page). :heh: My director will listen to it... sometime. :P I'm lucky I finished mine before everyone else started (now EVERYONE else in the 8th-9th grade bands have to compose). No one else except me and the director have used Finale (Notepad). :P But I've heard the songs they've written in an hour; they seem pretty random though.

*A common flaw in their composing is using only eighth notes at a 120. :P Makes it seem random, but hey, everyone has to start somewhere -_-. Since I already finished, I have to help everyone with Finale Notepad and feedback (Note to self: They're all beginners. Don't get too strict :sweat: ).

The band members have the knowledge to only use two instruments in their songs :bleh: . If they use more than two, it's pretty risky... :think: since they all are beginners :\ .

Attached is to show everyone else in my school (who are also new to Finale Notepad :bleh: ) what Finale Notepad (by itself) can do. Plus it shows them how to actually start a simple chord progression <_< , learn basic rhythms (pretty sad, since they have been in a band for at least 4 years :bleh: ), and learn basic chords. Too bad the school still has Finale Notepad 2005.

*DO NOT JUDGE BASED ON QUALITY, SOUND, etc... THIS IS JUST TO SHOW EVERYONE ELSE (at my school) WHAT YOU CAN MAKE OUT OF A VERY SIMPLE NOTATION PROGRAM COMPARED TO FINALE PRINTMUSIC.

Sounds pretty good for a beginner actually.

Have a little of my influence of which I composed last Spring. :heh:

^Actually, it's one of mine :P . I'm using it to teach everyone else in my school.

XD I finally got my director to listen to it... and he really likes it :lol: . It's going to be in a concert ^.^ ... and he's thinking about keeping it for future years :yes: ! :)

Heheh, congratulations. :)

Yeah, good job :)

Thanks everyone for the help! :)

~I hope to make better compositions in the future, though :P . Until the summer (when I'm back) I'll try to make better orchestrations out of what I write :) . The orchestration on this piece was very simple :P.

~If no one realized, I am very surprised I could get one of my compositions played by a band :) . Technically, I'm still a beginner :P .

~Expect a piece using Full Orchestra (minus the percussion :P ) when I'm back. I need to do some in-depth study on orchestration :) .

~Out of the Compositions section until the summer ;) . I'll be around here, commenting and stuff, but you'll see me in the Sheet Music Requests section a lot.

~Thanks Everyone!

-Clarinetist

~ out....

I thought I'd be out, but I guess not; until April 1st. :heh: :P

An idea I thought of. I'm still in a case of writer's block :heh: , so it's not that good yet, but just to practice orchestration.

(Uses 2007). MP3 is also provided.

~Note that it doesn't have good form yet. It's just two random phrases I came up with. -_- In other words, I wanted to see what I could make out of simple harmonies/melodies.

EDIT: I may just abandon this idea later... :P .

EDIT2: Another idea...

I really liked that, and goodluck with your future composiyions.

Yeah, good start, definitely.

Continuation.... (still, not very good form yet, just ideas).

WARNING: VERY LOUD TO THE EARS. HEADPHONES NOT RECOMMENDED. :heh:

Another orchestration idea... (just 9 measures as of now, sorry :heh: ).

The .mus is 2007.

Oh wow, does that melody sound like my "Talon" Overture or what!? :heh: Good stuff, keep it goin'.

Oh wow, does that melody sound like my "Talon" Overture or what!? :heh: Good stuff, keep it goin'.

Haven't heard it. To me, it sounds somewhat like "Scheherezade" (sp?) by Rimsky-Korsakov; 1st movement. :heh:

*cough* "Sheherazade"

I only thought the arpeggios and the descending violin/winds part sounded somewhat like "Sheherazade."

I really like how this one is starting off, I think it's gonna turn out to be your best, hope you finish it well :)

I thought I already posted this :mellow:... I guess not.

Still in a case of writer's block :heh: ...

So I'm basically writing every idea I get...

THIS WILL BE THE FINAL ITEM I WILL POST HERE UNTIL THE SUMMER.

It is a partially orchestrated arrangement (also a transcription) of "Inscription of Hope" (see sig). Originally, it was written for Soprano (voice), Alto (voice), Tenor (voice), Baritone (voice), Oboe, and Piano. When I was in choir (last year), we [the choir group I was in] sang this for a concert. It is not complete yet ;) . It's only 8-9 measures, but it's worth listening to :) .

Comments Please!

It's really nice I liked it.

Were you a good singer?

It's really nice I liked it.

Were you a good singer?

I actually found out I was, without even knowing it :heh: (the director found out before I did :heh: ). It's only been a year; maybe I should take voice lessons :unsure: . I had to quit choir because my school only allows two electives... and I had to choose Band + Spanish.

If anyone has been to the Garritan site lately, and has checked the "Common Problems in Orchestration", comment please (and anyone else knowledgeable)... I'm not too well with Woodwind Harmony yet, especially with chromatics...

(There seems to be something wrong with meas. 3 :unsure: ).

Specific as possible, please...

Some of you may remember this orchestration idea I had...

Let me know of any issues, all comments are accepted, etc...

As of now, I'm stuck. I want a new/fresh instrument coming in, but I don't know what.

One thing: your timpani is waaaaaaaay loud. With your shrill high flute, only the timpani and the flute will be heard in those passages. Furthermore, since you're using all instruments (putting them all together makes a different sound than solo sounds), there are no needs to find fresh sounds, just contrast it with something, anything.

Furthermore, since you're using all instruments (putting them all together makes a different sound than solo sounds), there are no needs to find fresh sounds, just contrast it with something, anything.

In other words, play around with the timbres/tone/sound of every instrument (combine instrument "x" with "y" and/or "z" and see what I can get)?

About the flute- is there any difference if I put in a Piccolo? (I still don't get why Violin + Piccolo on high notes is used more frequent than Flute + Violin).

For your first question: sure, but you can just keep it soloistic, in another words: there's no need to mix and match timbres but if you want, go ahead, you've got a full palette there.

As for your second question: piccolo and violin mix can distinguish each other more than flute and violin. I'd consider the violin section as a mellower instrument while the piccolo is bright, thus mixing them together will differ them from each other, but flute and violin can sometimes muddle depending on the register.

Sort of rushed :\ , so I can guarantee there are many problems. Oh, and another thing, I don't expect the harp to be heard that well at meas. 13-14. And I just had to use the "screeching" Flute (high C). :heh:

There seems to be quite a lot of unnecessary doublings (octave or unison). Oh, and your ensemble is kind of weird: you lack the brass section, you should at least have a trumpet and horn section. Also, it's weird how you have 3 bassoons instead of 2 bassoons and 1 auxiliary bassoon (in this case, it should be the contrabassoon), and your order of instruments is strange: the woodwind sections should go first, then the brass section, then the percussion section and the string being in the very bottom. Your timpani is still overwhelming. At bar 7, your flutes doubles the clarinet, and the two sections of violins, I don't think this is a good idea, it's gonna get quite a mushy sound. At bar 13, you have a weird usage in the bassoons: why does the first bassoon play a lower held note as opposed to the other two parts? It should be the other way around since bassoon 1 should be more advanced technically. Furthermore, somewhere around that part, you want your piano to sustain your melody, but like I usually say, having the piano playing over such thick orchestral texture is like asking the pianist to bang the piano, and it doesn't work that way. If you want your piano to be heard, give the orchestra a lighter texture. Octave doublings in bar 17 and 19 aren't quite necessary, if you really want, I rather have you make them play in unison, octave doublings make the timbre sound really grey. Again, bar 23, octave doublings. At bar 27, you ask the first flute to solo somewhere in the middle, and that doesn't really make sense as it's already solo (yes, in orchestra every instrument gets their OWN part, they're not played by more than one player, unless it's the strings section). As for that last C, I feel that you shouldn't make them hold it that long, you're kind of torturing the flute to play that high, and it's tiring for the audience to hear long high notes.

At bar 27, you ask the first flute to solo somewhere in the middle, and that doesn't really make sense as it's already solo (yes, in orchestra every instrument gets their OWN part, they're not played by more than one player, unless it's the strings section). As for that last C, I feel that you shouldn't make them hold it that long, you're kind of torturing the flute to play that high, and it's tiring for the audience to hear long high notes.

About the flute- I obviously don't want a bunch of Flutes screeching that High C, so I guess I should just put it... somewhere :\.

o.o I forgot to put in "Contrabassoon" for Bassoon 3 :heh: . The order isn't my fault; it's how it was when I input it into Finale Printmusic.

Bar 13; I copy and pasted it :bleh: . I'll fix it in the next update.


At bar 27, you ask the first flute to solo somewhere in the middle, and that doesn't really make sense as it's already solo (yes, in orchestra every instrument gets their OWN part, they're not played by more than one player, unless it's the strings section).

Now this, I never knew o.o .

EDIT: You can assume, by the instrumentation of my recent compositions/arrangements, I'm sort of avoiding the Brass Section. It will be added at a later time after I do some better studying on brass.

Rushed :bleh: . Again. There's some weird-sounding chords at 74, and the ending chord... Don't be suprised if something is out of range. I can guarantee there are some mistakes with doublings. Plus, in my opinion, I think the form of the song is bad.

Again, a lot of unneccesary octave doublings and I think you can figure out where. And again, your timpani is too overwhelming. At bar 20 and somewhere later again, you have a bar of silence and then a new idea, and I think they don't really flow together. As for your concern about form and whatever, I think it felt too repetitive, even though if it's in A-B-A kind of thing.

o.o Listening to this on GPO (thanks to PorscheGTIII :) )... yes, the Timpani IS overwhelming. Now I understand why MIDI is so annoying :heh: .

Note that I do not want comments on the context in this case (8 measures; all long tones). I just want to practice "Woodwind Harmony" concepts. o.o But I probably overdid it when putting Oboe 2 lower than Clarinet 1... :\ Please comment on harmony... (my hardest subject concerning woodwinds).

You didn't overdo it when you put oboe lower than clarinet, you over did it when you put bassoon higher than clarinet. x_x And that's like one of my greatest taboo ever. At bar 6, your bassoon is also doubled with the flute in 2 octaves, which is another bad thing. And wow, putting that entire passage in piano is a definite bad idea.

At bar 6, your bassoon is also doubled with the flute in 2 octaves, which is another bad thing.

That makes me wonder how this works:


The melodic combination of high flute and high bassoon, doubled at TWO octaves apart with nothing in between, is a favorite of Mozart’s.

I wonder what it means by "nothing in between"... :think: Unless all of the notes below the bassoon are extremely low. Or if all of the other notes above the flute are extremely high.

That's a very special effect you know. And I think what the writer (forgot if that was Rimsky-Korsakov or that professor) is saying is that there are no other counterpoints or movements or even notes in between the two moving lines, thus it's totally different from what you did. ._.

That's a very special effect you know. And I think what the writer (forgot if that was Rimsky-Korsakov or that professor) is saying is that there are no other counterpoints or movements or even notes in between the two moving lines, thus it's totally different from what you did. ._.

x_x


The melodic combination of high flute and high bassoon, doubled at TWO octaves apart with nothing in between, is a favorite of Mozart’s.
I have got to read things more thoroughly. x_x

Exactly, melodic combination: combining the two instruments to present the melody. I strongly believe that it means that the bassoon and flute are playing the same notes but only two octaves apart with no notes or counterpoints in between.

I'm just seeing what I can make in 30 minutes... During the woodwind feature that starts at meas. 9, I wonder if I should also put in Oboe, because I think the bass instruments may be too loud... :think:

I smell a lot of copy and pasting. :ph34r: And ouch, first clarinet and flute doubled at that high register, I'm sure I'm not fond of that idea. I also realized there were only 3 layers to the piece: the melody, the rhythmic accompaniment and the root of the chord. I think you should expand your variety of musical devices in these types of music.

(nothing)

I've completely given up on this arrangement... :\

One day, it sounds good, today, it doesn't. I wish I had GPO :\ .

Wow, the orchestration is really weird. Firstly, it felt really thin with the lack of counterpoints. Secondly, because you have a simple theme, and you tried to make the orchestration complex, now it doesn't really make sense. Furthermore, having first violins playing higher than the flute seems to be a little awkward (either have them in unison, or don't). There are other things, but I'm too dead to figure them out. x_x

XP I really dislike Uematsu's music... Including To Zanarkland... Bleh...

Wow, the orchestration is really weird. Firstly, it felt really thin with the lack of counterpoints. Secondly, because you have a simple theme, and you tried to make the orchestration complex, now it doesn't really make sense. Furthermore, having first violins playing higher than the flute seems to be a little awkward (either have them in unison, or don't). There are other things, but I'm too dead to figure them out. x_x

XP I really dislike Uematsu's music... Including To Zanarkland... Bleh...

I already know what I did wrong :\ . :bleh: Melodic arpeggios are the worst -_- .

This one seems bad too :\ . I still consider myself to be in a case of writer's block; lack of ideas lately. I've just been using simple melodies :\ .

1.) Flute playing 'mp' at such high register is... really challenging.
2.) Flute doubling violin at such register is not good either.
3.) A lot of unnecessary doublings at bar 3 and 4.
4.) Bar 16 - 18 is very awkward. Making the flute playing at such low register will strain them. Also, playing at 'p' at such low register with this tempo is basically asking the flute to shut up.
5.) Clarinet note after the flute cadenza-ish thing is unnecessary.
6.) Weird bassoon part.

I have a feeling you're trying to do something atonal, but it's not working, I'm sorry. x_x You basically used the chromatic scale as your melody, which is quite annoying after a while. I also think that you should stick to something tonal and with less complex rhythms until you get your counterpoints straight.

You should be glad you still have some ideas. I can't even put a note down for an idea I had for quite a while... Not to mention I have other inspirations and ideas. :mellow:

An idea I've had for a while :\ . This is not intended to sound atonal... x_x

The Clarinet part is sort of weird, I know, but I guess that's how my mind is :heh: . It does not have any structure yet, it's just an idea I wanted to write down after a few weeks with writer's block :\ . Oh, and it's playable :P .

Some people know I'm in a bad case of writer's block. So I'm just fixing my first orchestration idea...

I felt that the bass clarinet chromatic scale (doubled by cello and bassoon) was unnecessary. Also, making harp playing at pianissimo at that register is literally telling them not to play as you have pizzicato strings playing those notes in unison already. I also find your use of piccolo leading to the next section was way too thin. An alternative is to have flute doubling an octave lower.

Also, making harp playing at pianissimo at that register is literally telling them not to play as you have pizzicato strings playing those notes in unison already.

Oh, that was for playback purposes. I know in reality, the harp should be that soft... if played mp (I think).

I actually believe that you shouldn't really add notes that for playback purposes; if you know what you have in mind but it doesn't sound right on Finale or whatever, let it be or you can even explain a little of why it doesn't sound 'right' before you post it or whatever.

I finally came up with a theme. But I think I ended it too fast :heh: .

Ooh. I like that. Keep that goin'. ^.^

=_= [FILE REMOVED AT COMPOSERS REQUEST] =_=

(I love that smilie!)

I may have overdone it with the pedal this time :heh: .

(So many ideas lately. @_@ I may even turn that Piano idea into a concerto. I don't know about that yet, though.)

I'm not sure about your multiphonic thing on clarinet. It's not gonna work, since from what I know multiphonics require not just fancy fingerings, but also a lot of luck and precision for getting it to happen or in tune. Multiphonics are almost never in tune, trust me, don't count on it.

Asides from that, your accompaniment sounds too monotonous and tiring, especially with the repeating bass arps.

There's very little harmonic movement in the piano, and that gets kind of tiresome too.

I play the Clarient so, I wonder If you can convert The piano verison of Etenal Snow to an Clarinet version.

I dont really know how to add an audio so, I just put an song from xanga..^^U

http://audio.xanga.com/Takuto_Luver/d5a4b796992/audio.html

Trying to come up with a counterpoint for that past Piano idea. I could only think of triplets :P. Weird chromatic junk too. Ignore the Piano "cadenza". I can't even call it a cadenza.

One word--

Contemporary

One word--

Contemporary

:mellow:

Are you kidding? I mean, I've always tried to avoid that style... I really don't like contemporary at all.

One word--

Contemporary

Agreed :P

*tries to compose something in the Classical Style*

i wouldn't call it classical or contemporary...it sounds something like early 20th century to me

Most 20th century things are considered contemporary, unless you're Rachmaninov or Gershwin of course. And yeah, I do know that Contenporary is 75' - present as well. Just thats when it was 'official.'

Most 20th century things are considered contemporary, unless you're Rachmaninov or Gershwin of course. And yeah, I do know that Contenporary is 75' - present as well. Just thats when it was 'official.'

I disagree, 'contemporary' stands for every style of music of our time, including, pop, hip-hop, jazz, blues and etc... Nor could we call it 20th century anymore, as 20th century is pretty much 'gone' already. So there's not really a title for these style of music, but I'd call it 'Contemporary Classical' if I were to explain this style of music to people that are not musical, but if they are musical, it really depends... Cos there are atonalism, post-modernism, surrealism, and etc...

Edit: By the way, Clarinetist, your piece doesn't sound contemporary. At least not enough for me to call it sound contemporary, since I'm a huge fan of it. So don't worry... But again, if you don't want to be mistaken, stay away from chromaticism or anything out of tonal scales.

Edit: By the way, Clarinetist, your piece doesn't sound contemporary. At least not enough for me to call it sound contemporary, since I'm a huge fan of it. So don't worry... But again, if you don't want to be mistaken, stay away from chromaticism or anything out of tonal scales.

Thanks for clarifying :). It's really not my fault; just an idea that I had out of nowhere that uses a bunch of chromaticism (I will probably continue it, but post it when it's finished) :\ . Another idea to come up...

Working on my first piece for vocals, and also my first song I have ever composed in a major key :o! I finally have something in a major key. (+ practice for counterpoint(s)).

Themes are getting harder for me to make x_x.

EDIT1: Counterpoints, but no melodies/themes yet -_-.

EDIT2: Actually, I'm removing it :\ . It's not done well enough.

Can someone explain Oboe/Flute common doublings? I usually see unison, but I can't name any other common ones. Octave isn't as common, 3rds sometimes... what else?

6ths, enclosed(so two flutes playing maybe a fifth apart while the oboes play a third within the fifth; it's basically doubling in thirds, fourths, or fifths or whatever, but it's just a better way to mix the timbres), interlocked (each flute and oboe playing a third or fourth above each other; again, just another way to mix the timbre better). There are also other ways to voice them, but I think these ways are the most effective.

In a bad case of writer's block. So I'm just inputting notes :heh: . But not randomly. Read what I think before commenting, please. (I'm literally, criticizing my own songs -_- ).

Orch- Meas. 5-7, to me, is almost random :\.

Woodwinds- An idea that has been stuck in my head for a while, and I had to right it down. I know that the Flute phrase is too short, and I'm extending it. I don't get it; there's something I don't like about that extremely low Piano note at 7. There's so much stuff I should fix -_-.

vocals2- So random to me, it's not even funny :bleh: . And the high Violin part won't be heard too well at 1.

I agree with what you said about Orch and Vocals2. However, I really liked Woodwinds - you did a really great job using suspensions in that.

Working on Woodwinds...

(I have got to extend the phrase somehow x_x ).

The orchestration with the woodwinds are too mushed. Weird voicing here and there...

The orchestration with the woodwinds are too mushed. Weird voicing here and there...

:heh: I forgot about that. I overdid the crossing/enclosure of parts "principle".

There's are some orchestration problems with this x_x . Plus I need work on orchestrating a crescendo. It's not dramatic enough. I also need work on counterpoint...

EDIT: Another issue I found: the melody isn't heard well at times...

I'll learn how to orchestrate instruments later in time, but everything sounds pretty nice so far.

I don't think the melody is noticeable enough... :\

The beginning is too "smudgy" in my opinion.

EDIT: And it is NOT finished.

Oh please, take the glisses away. They totally ruined it. You also need to notate your timpani properly. It's supposed to be all on one staff whethere if you're using more than one drum or not. You also need to be much more specific when it comes to notating 'mallet' instruments, just 'bells' won't cut for orchestral pieces. Your bass line of the harp is also weird; do you really intend all the octaves to be played solid? Or do you just want to amplify the sound? If you're just amplifying, then it makes no impact to the volume of the harp. And ow, oboe higher than flute in the sixth bar? Your ensemble also have some weird problems: you have 1 piccolo and 2 flutes (which is correct), 2 oboes and 1 cor Anglais (which is correct), then 4 clarinets and a bass clarinet? That doesn't really make sense in my opinion. I usually stick with two of each and an auxiliary. Three horns are also weird; make it either 2, 4 or 8. At bar 5, you did another very weird and unnecessary thing: trilling on a gliss? That's impossible. At bar 6, that bass harp part seems unnecessary, as you know, harp has low carrying power thus it won't have any impact on your crescendo. At bar 7, you have all instruments except percussions at forte while the timpanis and cymbal at triple 'f', which isn't a bright idea either, since it's kind of obvious the percussion will drown out the orchestra.

You also need to notate your timpani properly. It's supposed to be all on one staff whethere if you're using more than one drum or not. You also need to be much more specific when it comes to notating 'mallet' instruments, just 'bells' won't cut for orchestral pieces. Your bass line of the harp is also weird; do you really intend all the octaves to be played solid? Or do you just want to amplify the sound? If you're just amplifying, then it makes no impact to the volume of the harp. And ow, oboe higher than flute in the sixth bar? Your ensemble also have some weird problems: you have 1 piccolo and 2 flutes (which is correct), 2 oboes and 1 cor Anglais (which is correct), then 4 clarinets and a bass clarinet? That doesn't really make sense in my opinion. I usually stick with two of each and an auxiliary. Three horns are also weird; make it either 2, 4 or 8. At bar 5, you did another very weird and unnecessary thing: trilling on a gliss? That's impossible. At bar 6, that bass harp part seems unnecessary, as you know, harp has low carrying power thus it won't have any impact on your crescendo. At bar 7, you have all instruments except percussions at forte while the timpanis and cymbal at triple 'f', which isn't a bright idea either, since it's kind of obvious the percussion will drown out the orchestra.

Bar 5: It says "div." (Violin). About the triple 'f', I think there's something wrong with my playback, because it's not playing crescendos and short chords correctly with percussion. -_-

Some of the Clarinet parts are unnecessary, so I'll take some out.

It does seem obvious that the Harp octaves will not be heard.

Orch. 1

The glissandi may be a bit strange, but it really fits with the piece, in my opinion. It'd sound even better on real instruments! You've got a lot going on in this short 25 seconds. The build up to 0:10 is really cool and over-the-top. I like it. The slowing down of the string parts at 0:14 is a nice break after all of the previous wild string writing. Hope you expand upon this!