Wow, you don't know how much more this makes sense now. Thank you very x10^8 much!

Just one more question. How does one go from these exercises and make use of them in "Free Composition?"

Oooh, if it's basic harmony (before, I thought you were talking about two parts/three parts counterpoint writing which involves fugual structures and whatnot @_@) then I guess I can give a hint or two:

1.) When your bass is moving in a certain direction, it's best that the other three voices move the contrary motion. This can avoid A LOT of parallels.

2.) Keep the chords spread so that you can avoid crossovers.

3.) If you write in minor, you melody should be in melodic minor instead of harmonic minor to avoid augmented second intervals.

4.) Double as much of the root as possible if the chord is in its root position, if it's in inversions, you may double the third or the root.

5.) Always use the vii(dim) chord in first inversion to avoid parallels.

6.) When you use vii(dim) chord as your cadence, your tonic chord will always end up incomplete, unless you leap, but leaping is never good.

7.) When you leap more than a 4th, always make the next note after the leap the opposite motion.

I hope that helps.

Thanks, they make sence-- which is weird because I don't take any classes-yet. x_x

OK, I guess I went a little too complicated?

Oh, no I didn't mean that you guys didn't explain well, just I didn't pay attention untill I say an 'organized' list in the thread. I just scan most of the stuff in this thread because some of it isn't to valuable to me at times.

Lol, don't be offended man.

Thanks again guys! I gave it a try again, did I do better?

OK, lets list your new issues:
1) Jump of a tritone between m. 1 and m. 3 (I know I didn't say anything about that)
2) Voice crossing in m. 5 between the Cantus Firmus in the alto and the soprano.
3) You have way too many jumps now. I thought you knew this, because in the last version you did pretty well with not having too many jumps. Your melody and the upper 3 parts in general should be stepwise or oblique motion whenever possible. More than 3 jumps is too much in Soprano especially. In the bass it's not as important, but there's can still be too many jumps in the bass.
4) Your bass, in this style of writing, must ALWAYS end on the tonic.
6) Usually, the Cantus Firmus is used as a melody line, which is usually the soprano line. Is there a reason you didn't do that?
7) Parallel Octaves between the soprano and bass in m. 2 and 3
8) diminished chord in second m. 2 is not in first inversion
9) The tenor is too low in its range I think when it's on the d and c
10) The last chord does not have all chord tones. You're missing the a. You may only leave out the fifth when you are TRIPLING the bass.
11) Intervals of a third get really mushy when they are too low (for example, m. 2 and 3). Avoid this, usually by taking the tenor up an octave.
12) In several places your tenor is more than an octave away from your alto. That is another NEVER rule. You should NEVER have more than an octave between soprano and alto, or alto and tenor. You can have up to 2 octaves between bass and tenor, however.
13) Second to last chord, change the bass so it's an a. It solves LOTS of problems (although good job for not doubling the leading tone)
14) Remember, when there's a jump of a fourth, you must resolve by STEP, not another jump. When you have 3 jumps in a row, they must outline a root position triad.

@_@

Well, to clear up some stuff, this is the example I'm going off of. Johann Fux gies this example and has the C.F. in the alto part and moves the C.F. to different parts in different examples. I didn't have a full chord at the end because the example and other examples tended not to. If I remember correctly, he said the fifth should not be used in the final chord.

Back to the drawing board...

Wait, I thought Fux did two part counterpoints? I guess I don't know how his four part Cantus Firmus counterpoints would work. We didn't do those at all in AP Music Theory, only 2 part Cantus Firmi counterpoints and four part regular.

Yes, he covers two, three, and four part composition in his book and covers in each...

1. Half notes against whole notes
2. Quarter notes against whole notes
3. The Ligature
4. And Florid Counterpoint

The same basic rules apply, but not a strictly.
He even said he wished he had time to add composition in more than four parts. If you haven't already, I suggest you pick up a copy. It's a great read!

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780393002775&itm=1

IMO, I'll just stick to my theory book. Sorry if we were feeding you info that wasn't true, but you'll use the stuff we taught you more than the complicated Cantus Firmus writing. Anyway, good luck.

hey guys, can I ask for any help at all on Spanish music?

Specifically Pasa Doble music? But any thing else Spanish is fine :|

^ Sorry, can't help you much there.
~~

Hey, I know I told you guys about that Northwestern Composition Camp, well after a LONG chain of events, I decided on my own that I'm not going. Asking a lot of me to do stuff in only one week, and also my funding fell through--$1,300 was left to pay, and we can't afford that.

But I have, literally, the next best thing, if not better. I'm going to start private lessons with a well known person in music (at least in our area) on Composition and also Music Theory. It's a long story about the guy, Jim Machan (Ma-Han), but he has a BUNCH to offer for me.

I'm so happy. ^_^

Interesting. Lol, I, for one, won't be as thrilled as you when it comes to theory courses. It's actually pretty boring and annoying after a while (it's like math, except you use notes)... Though of course, learning harmony, analysis, and whatnot are still a vital part of music. But I'm happy that I will soon have an avant-garde composition teacher. :P I can't wait until I can learn all those weird techniques Hindemith, Messiaen, Cage and etc... used in their 20th century pieces... From screeching cluster chords, white noise to scratching the blackboard. ^.^

Sorry for the double post~

But woot! Two more orchestration books arrived! :D One of them written by famous French composer Berlioz and later revised by Strauss and another one by Cecil Forsyth (another great orchestration book). Yay~!

I'm a newb to ichigos forums. I tried to post a thread containing my music twice, but it won't appear on the forum. Help anyone?

Oh and to above posters. Theory is broccoli, you hate it, you hate it, you hate it, you hate it, but it's still good for you =).

I'm a newb to ichigos forums. I tried to post a thread containing my music twice, but it won't appear on the forum. Help anyone?

Make a thread; scroll to the bottom of the compositions forum, and click "New Thread". While doing so, look for "Manage Attachments" so that you may post your music up. The rest is self-explanatory. :heh:

Oh and to above posters. Theory is broccoli, you hate it, you hate it, you hate it, you hate it, but it's still good for you =).
Haha, that's funny because I like both broccoli and theory :heh:.

Haha, that's funny because I like both broccoli and theory :heh:.Yeah, I used to hate theory, now I love it. Amazing how much it enhances your music.

Make a thread; scroll to the bottom of the compositions forum, and click "New Thread". While doing so, look for "Manage Attachments" so that you may post your music up. The rest is self-explanatory. :heh:Yeah...only thing is I did exactly that twice =(, and that was two days ago. Does it take a long time for the topics to appear?

Did you click "Submit New Thread" after doing everything else?

Did you click "Submit New Thread" after doing everything else?Indeed I did.

:think: Did you type up a title? It's not needed when making a regular post, but you have to do it for a thread.

Oh and to above posters. Theory is broccoli, you hate it, you hate it, you hate it, you hate it, but it's still good for you =).

theory is not good for you composing wise- it stifles your creativity! agreed you need a bit of theory to be able to get anywhere but not to be so up to your neck in it you cant think for yourself

in terms of performing however i fully agree- without theory you cant memorise anything properly- and it helps with sight reading too

^ Yeah, although I'm just getting down the Fundamentals (again) of Theory, Sight Reading my "Hard Keys" have gotten a little more fluent. .no more guessing and remembering what is sharp and flat, now know it. :lol:

But if you learn theory, it doesn't necessarily stifle your creativity. Just if you try too hard to follow it to the tee. That's not how it's meant to be used anyway, no matter what your theory teacher says.

ive never had a theory teacher. the only theory ive done is grades 1-5 (needed in the UK before you can take any practical exam for grades 6-8) and A level (virtually the equivalent of grade 6)

i can analyse music well enough to be able to memorise it which is all i need to be able to do. but for composing it doesnt actually help me at all- the only time theory has ever had anything to do with writing music is for A level where you had to harmonise Bach chorales

How in depth did you get into harmonizing chorales? I didn't really do any of that until IB Music this past year.

how deep can you go? at A level it was just a case of having the soprano line and having to add alto tenor and bass.

basically the depth we went into was: writing a decent bass line, voice leading, which chords fit best with which degree of the scale, how to harmonise ascending/descending scalic passages, which chords follow which and cadential progressions.

it was the most boring part of the course ever! followed by a three and a half hour exam where you had a single chorale to harmonise with your own keyboard to play through it. i finished and checked/corrected within the first hour and a half and spent the rest of the time harmonising the melody in the styles of Liszt and Debussy xD

When do you take A-levels? I realize what harmonizing is, but there's different techniques to harmonization. Did you cover proper use of 7th chords, modulations, secondary dominants/leading tone chords, etc.?

Edit: I need something else, too. I need someone to help me diagnose the problem with this midi. There's stuff at the end, but it won't play back.

usually you start studying for them at 16, take the first half at 17 and the second half at 18.

we covered all of the things you mentioned as far as i remember.

While I was doing some research on Debussy's music, I came across a fancy website where you can post a score and include an analysis and whatnot as it plays along and you can even make hyperlinks to allude to a certain passage of the piece, which is really handy for analysis. When you are done with making your analysis, or whatever, you can host it somewhere and share it with other musicians. I think this is pretty cool for some of you who wants to provide an analysis of your own pieces (or even just pieces you want to analyze, if you're that bored :P ) and sharing it with other people.

http://bach.nau.edu/index.html

i have a book that analyses Debussy's music- im not a theory person as ive said but its fascinating how they are structured; he planned the climaxes of his pieces to be at the point in each piece where they have the biggest impact on the audience by using a similar method that painters use to draw the viewers' attention to a particular part of a painting over everything else

amazing man

@Thorn- Hey, that's pretty cool; Debussy's music almost seems too complex for me, at the moment, to actually pick out the climactic passages, since his music is SOO emotional it's hard to 'especially being out' just a section. @_@

--

I saw someone post this in the Arrow Game,

"Inspiration vs. Motivation"

What do you all think? For me, it's actually motivation. I really have a lot of inspiration with a ton of aspirations with big, luchous (sp?) melodies and also very brisk passages and harmonies, but I can never seem to get myself the motivation to just sit down a the piano/computer and just start writing it all down. I know a lot of it is me lacking theory and composition training (mostly composition), but I think motivation is still such an understood subject for me to be 100% how to 'correct' it. x_x

:P Didn't know that was an inspiration for a topic.

Well, I have inspiration 24/7 but I'm always too lazy to write them or to think through them... Unless they're really really good ideas or I just have a lot of energy that day.

im the same- i hear lots of music and feel really inspired by it, but i rarely get the motivation to actually channel the inspiration into something useful (unless its inspiration to learn a new piece after hearing it the first time- then i will stay on the piano for hours at a time until i can play through it to reasonable standard)

although i have to say i have felt very motivated to compose at the moment; i have done a set of variations on a Japanese folksong and am halfway through a sonata. putting them onto the computer so you can listen to them is a completely different matter though

and just out of interest has anyone here ever done any transcribing? i am currently writing all 3 of the Debussy Nocturnes (orchestral pieces) for piano and would be grateful of opinions (have finished the 3rd as it is my favourite and am working on the 2nd)

and just out of interest has anyone here ever done any transcribing? i am currently writing all 3 of the Debussy Nocturnes (orchestral pieces) for piano and would be grateful of opinions (have finished the 3rd as it is my favourite and am working on the 2nd)

I have done some arranging from piano to orchestra, and I'm interested in listening to the second movement, since it's one of my favourite Debussy pieces. ;P

Arranging orchestral pieces from orchestra to piano is fun and good practice, too. I did something like that once for Holst's Jupiter, so I could play it as a backing to a play. The Nocturnes are good pieces. I've been learning the solo piano transcription of the 2nd movement (http://imslp.net/images/d/d2/Debussy_-_Nocturnes_-_II._Fetes_(trans._Borwick_-_piano).pdf) on and off for a while now.

YAY!!! I got a 5 on the AP Music Theory test!

Arranging orchestral pieces from orchestra to piano is fun and good practice, too. I did something like that once for Holst's Jupiter, so I could play it as a backing to a play. The Nocturnes are good pieces. I've been learning the solo piano transcription of the 2nd movement (http://imslp.net/images/d/d2/Debussy_-_Nocturnes_-_II._Fetes_(trans._Borwick_-_piano).pdf) on and off for a while now.


i havent come across this before- ive only ever seen Ravel's transcription for 2 pianos. it will be interesting to compare it to my own (Y)

@Sir_Dotdotdot- i am starting to input Fetes into Sibelius now so I will let you know when its finished.

i lost the MIDI of Sirenes but i can upload the pdf if anyone would be interested? hopefully i can make an mp3 of it once my diploma exam is out of the way...

@ deathraider- well done! ^_^

@Sir_Dotdotdot- i am starting to input Fetes into Sibelius now so I will let you know when its finished.



Ooops, I meant the Nuages movement. :heh:

oh, i havent finished Nuages yet xD

I want Finale 2008.

I want Finale 2008.

Sibelius 5 owns Finale 2008 in my opinion, as there's more compatibility with all my fancy sounds. :P

Perhaps, but how much does it cost? I can upgrade for fairly cheap.

It's pretty much same with Finale, after all if they're competing, their prices must be around the same.

Perhaps, but how much does it cost? I can upgrade for fairly cheap.

You can go from Sibelius <----> Finale for $199. :)

But I could just stick with Finale 2008, a program I know I like and that I know how to use, for $99.

Stick with Finale then.

Composition contest?......

Composition contest?......

Ask Noir. :shifty::poke:

Hm... *Ponders about his composition ideas.* :think:

I was planning on starting one yesterday, but I need to figure some things out first. I was wondering if a music-to-painting competition would work? That is, I post a painting here, which then everyone would compose their interpretation to. Hopefully I'll find a painting which suggest multiple themes and moods, and hopefully we'll get much variation in everyone's entries.

Edit: Oh, and I'm trying to orchestrate this God-forsaken dread of a composition right now, could anyone tell me if:

A flute and an english horn harmonise well together?
Adding a single flute ontop a heap of strings, is that a bad idea?
I'm using the cello's higher notes quite often in this one, is that another bad idea?

Flute + Cor Anglais is fine, as long as you don't use them in succession for too long, and as long as you keep them in their good register (a rough estimate would be flute in the middle of the staff and above, English horn below and on the staff).

Flute on strings isn't too bad if your flute plays in a range above the strings so that the flute won't get overpowered, but you can thin the texture of the strings to expose the low register of the flute.

By high notes for cello, do you mean like on the treble staff? It's not a bad idea, but a viola section can substitute it if the cello section sounds too thin (i.e. too high).

Hope it helps.

I was planning on starting one yesterday, but I need to figure some things out first. I was wondering if a music-to-painting competition would work? That is, I post a painting here, which then everyone would compose their interpretation to. Hopefully I'll find a painting which suggest multiple themes and moods, and hopefully we'll get much variation in everyone's entries.

Oh! That's great! Seriously, please post a new Contest Thread as soon as possible; I need something to compose for (motivation).

. . .and I'll actually enter this one too! :heh:

I was planning on starting one yesterday, but I need to figure some things out first. I was wondering if a music-to-painting competition would work? That is, I post a painting here, which then everyone would compose their interpretation to. Hopefully I'll find a painting which suggest multiple themes and moods, and hopefully we'll get much variation in everyone's entries.


that is the best idea for a competition i have ever seen on a forum (Y)

i would enter for definate as long as it was after the 16th july that it started (have dipABRSM exam then and dont have time for anything else)

What I've done on other sites is have a source material, and have other composers re-arrange the piece. Then it goes to either a panel of judges or a group of people will pm the host with vote results (you vote for your top 5 or something like that) - then you weight each vote with a certain number, do the math, and that's the winner!

The painting idea is pretty cool too :)

On a side note, I'm trying to combine several mixes into a single mix - however some composers put them into a different genre entirely. I'm trying to figure out a nice way to make the mix flow without it sounding like it's the end or beginning of a new song - that and I'm drawing a blank mind on some percussion ideas for one of my own songs.

It already started, and we actually already have a systems for determining the winner.

I've an idea - I can see this thread getting very long, so perhaps it would be a good idea to make a contents list and link to the posts at the start of the thread to save people trawling through page after page? :)

A very good idea that never happened. Just figured I'd post bring it to the attention of the powers that be, in case someone felt like doing it. I realize it'd take a long time, but it'd be nice to have.

A very good idea that never happened. Just figured I'd post bring it to the attention of the powers that be, in case someone felt like doing it. I realize it'd take a long time, but it'd be nice to have.

That plan sounds like some treacherous work for the mod though. But perhaps, it's a suggestion for Ichigo's reformation plan? Maybe we can have a sub-forum in the composition forum for discussion of composition topics? I don't know.

That plan sounds like some treacherous work for the mod though. But perhaps, it's a suggestion for Ichigo's reformation plan? Maybe we can have a sub-forum in the composition forum for discussion of composition topics? I don't know.

I'd really like that, actually. Just start from scratch, but have this one here for reference...

I would love to help the mods on this one; I have quite a bit of free-time.

Creating a sub-forum for the Compositions right now is out of the question. Perhaps in the future, or if we would get many more active members here. And about the contents list, that will probably not happen either. This is just a general chat thread really, not a help archive.

Gah~! I feel the need to dement arrange a piece for orchestra! Preferably a piano piece/small ensemble piece where I can mess around the musical elements with... Any ideas? :P

I can only think of Chopin at the moment: (Sibelius Scorch needed)

Nocturne 20a in C# Minor (http://www.music-scores.com/music-scores/sibtemp.php?more=ch_noc_20a)
Op. 9 #2, Nocturne (http://www.music-scores.com/music-scores/sibtemp.php?more=ch_9_2)
Revolutionary Study (http://www.music-scores.com/music-scores/sibtemp.php?more=chrevo)

or, a favorite of mine: Ravel's Gaspard De La Nuit (http://imslp.org/wiki/Gaspard_de_la_Nuit_(Ravel,_Maurice))

Unfortunately, Chopin is not my cup of tea. :P

Unfortunately, Chopin is not my cup of tea. :P

:heh: There's a Ravel one that I just posted.

Well, I also kind of want to break away from the impressionistic style for a while... :/ But anyways... Thanks for you help.

Unfortunately, Chopin is not my cup of tea. :P

Stravinsky? :heh:

Yay, I'm getting Finale 2008 with new Garritan Choral samples!

Mr. Garritan said those choir samples in Finale 2008 aren't Garritan-made. Finale just stuffed it in or something. ._. You can find him saying that in the Garritan forum.


Sorry for the confusion and lack of clarification about the Choir set.

The Choir Samples in Finale 2008 are not from the Garritan Choirs.

The choir samples in Finale 2008 are an early edition from a different recording done some time ago. They are not a preview of the forthcoming Garritan Choirs.

The upcoming Garritan Choirs are a recent set of samples from members of one of the world's most well-known choirs.

Hope this clarifies things. We'll post more details in due course. :)

Gary Garritan

PS: PM me if you want to know the source of that quote.

I still wonder, what's the difference between GPO and GPOA? All I know is that there's different samples for every instrument...

Yes. Mr. Garritan said it'll include more instruments and will use its own sampling engine... And possibly that drag and drop acoustic space thing will come along with it.

Edit:

@ Mazeppa: Nah, Stravinsky's music is too heavy.

*cries* Oh well, hopefully it will still be good samples. I wouldn't have enough money to buy the GPO one separate anyway.

Edit: wait, Sir_Dotdotdot, you're wrong. They ARE Garritan made samples, and Mr. Garritan doesn't say that they aren't. He only says they aren't a preview of the upcoming "Garritan Choirs" sample library specifically.

You could orchestrate one of my piano pieces if you want :P

Hmm, so lately I've realized that I'm really indecisive when I compose. I dunno why, but its almost like when I decide on what I want to happen in a certain place, I'm sort of closing a door to the possibility of another direction the song could've taken.

Like right now with a composition I've been working on (which I realize might be kinda predictable and probably has the most overused chord progression of all time, but for some reason I like the simplicity of it and I'm actually really happy with how it sounds) (Attachment A :sweat:), sometimes just deciding on one note can seem like it's going to affect the direction the entire piece is going to take.

I had kind of a hard time deciding how I wanted a certain measure to sound (listen to Attachment B). I was thinking that if I put in what I have in Attachment C, it would have been a world of difference. It's like I couldn't decide on the feeling I wanted the listener to have in that part or the message I wanted to send or somehting. I really don't know how to describe it, but I didn't really know whether I wanted the note to be an A where it was within that chord and was maybe more pleasing, or whether to make it a B, adding that little bit of disagreement between all the notes being played. Like while taking the note up a stop maybe wouldn't change the overall emotion of the song, but for that just part and maybe a little bit after, it would drastically change the feelings being conveyed.

Haha yeah, I dunno, I just felt like putting all this out there for some reason. :sweat:

Edit: wait, Sir_Dotdotdot, you're wrong. They ARE Garritan made samples, and Mr. Garritan doesn't say that they aren't. He only says they aren't a preview of the upcoming "Garritan Choirs" sample library specifically.

You could orchestrate one of my piano pieces if you want :P

Seems like I overlooked it; however, they're still not part of the choir (in another words, those samples are possibly prototypes), which makes them unauthentic samples. So I'm still have my hopes high of the real version.

And yes, I can orchestrate one of your pieces, but which one do you want me to do? And I might not have time now.

Edit:

Hmm, so lately I've realized that I'm really indecisive when I compose. I dunno why, but its almost like when I decide on what I want to happen in a certain place, I'm sort of closing a door to the possibility of another direction the song could've taken.

Like right now with a composition I've been working on (which I realize might be kinda predictable and probably has the most overused chord progression of all time, but for some reason I like the simplicity of it and I'm actually really happy with how it sounds) (Attachment A :sweat:), sometimes just deciding on one note can seem like it's going to affect the direction the entire piece is going to take.

I had kind of a hard time deciding how I wanted a certain measure to sound (listen to Attachment B). I was thinking that if I put in what I have in Attachment C, it would have been a world of difference. It's like I couldn't decide on the feeling I wanted the listener to have in that part or the message I wanted to send or somehting. I really don't know how to describe it, but I didn't really know whether I wanted the note to be an A where it was within that chord and was maybe more pleasing, or whether to make it a B, adding that little bit of disagreement between all the notes being played. Like while taking the note up a stop maybe wouldn't change the overall emotion of the song, but for that just part and maybe a little bit after, it would drastically change the feelings being conveyed.

Haha yeah, I dunno, I just felt like putting all this out there for some reason. :sweat:

You can do it the very abstract way that I like: write both parts and let the performer choose.

Well, I don't care which one you orchestrate,or even if you end up doing it, you just said that you wanted a piano piece to orchestrate, so I was saying I would be happy to let you orchestrate any of my pieces :P I didn't really think you would accept.

Well, I don't care which one you orchestrate,or even if you end up doing it, you just said that you wanted a piano piece to orchestrate, so I was saying I would be happy to let you orchestrate any of my pieces :P I didn't really think you would accept.

XD I really don't mind... I'm a little bored anyways... And it's fun orchestrating other people's work since it helps me improve style and other aspects of music. :P But yeah... We can bring this talk on MSN or elsewhere... If you're still interested.

Any composers here ever feel like they're using the same chords over and over..
Or scared or scared to repeat a certain pattern for the sake of not repeating?
Lol, just curious..
because I find that every time I want to compose, I end up thinking of one of my few chord progressions, and it's really limiting. Do I need something like a life changing experience to change this? XDDD

-Scribz

Repeating is always good if you ask me.

Any composers here ever feel like they're using the same chords over and over..
Or scared or scared to repeat a certain pattern for the sake of not repeating?
Lol, just curious..
because I find that every time I want to compose, I end up thinking of one of my few chord progressions, and it's really limiting. Do I need something like a life changing experience to change this? XDDD

-Scribz

I think repetition is good. One just can't get carried away with it.

Repetition of musical devices is what makes style.

Then again, trying to get away from repetition tests the creativity of the composer.

Yes, but the repetition of devices can be so subtle that it can be included in every piece, but sound so different. ;)

Scribblez was talking about the repetition of 'chord progressions', and that was my response to his/her comment.

Your point about repetition of 'devices' is valid, and yet, it still involves creativity to some degree, as you try to make it sound different each time while stil retaining that repetition of device. Win-Win!

Take Sting's "Shape of my Heart" for example, it repeats its chords over and over again (through both verse and refrain) and it still sounds great. Apart from the modulation at the second half of the song, it stays basically the same throughout.

On a less musical note (lol pun), but intriguing nonetheless; I think the the pseudoword "precactly" should be added into the dictionary.

Perhaps you may say that being a composer isn't being a mathematician, however, I discovered a rather strange music-number relation with my composition teacher today (it's actually not too mathetmatical; as a math hater, I even found this fascinating). If you still believe that music shouldn't be restrained by any numbers, I don't blame you. However, many masterpieces had these strange numbers embedded in them whether you like it or not (some composers even did it on purpose).

~~~

Phi (0.618) (which was the key part of the golden ratio) was considered the most 'pleasing number' of human. It is a number that most of you should be familiar with if you have read The Da Vinci Code. Phi and the golden ratio do not only apply to Da Vinci's theorems and Mona Lisa. In fact, it was integrated into music quite subtlely and magically to the point where some of the greatest masterpieces were utilizing it. Beethoven's fifth symphony used it, and the composer himself didn't even know it! Debussy used it in L'Apres Midi d'Un Faune. Bartok used it in his Music for Celesta, Percussion and Strings (however, he did it on purpose, so not much of a surprise here).

As many of you may know, Beethoven was a composer that moved many fragments of music and added fragments into his music while revising his compositions. He was proven to be a perfectionist, as many of you may know from reading biographies about him. But one thing that proved this is a fact is the number 0.618. My teacher said that in his fifth symphony, he put the most vital oboe solo at the 0.618 point of the piece. So what if it's at the 0.618 point? Well, that's the thing. My teacher said (and it was proven by other art forms) that the 0.618 point of a piece (to calculate that, you multiply the length of a piece by phi) is the most perfect place for a climactic section. It's not a coincedence. Many other pieces and many modern composers used the same technique Beethoven did to achieve such 'almost-perfect' effect.

Debussy used it in L'Apres Midi d'Un Faune too. The flute rhythm in the opening was based on the golden ratio. However, asides from applying the golden ratio to rhythm and length of the piece, it can also be applied to interval and etc...

Well... That's about it. Whether you think it's a discovery or just a coincedence, it's up to you. But I find it quite interesting, seeing how many masterpieces used the same principle to be 'masterpieces'. Furthermore, forgive me if I have any errors in explaining, it's a fairly confusing concept to explain in words, I guess you really have to 'experience' it by listening to the music. Even to average ears, music using this ratio is equally pleasing to those who have trained ears.

-------------------------------

Speaking of which, I had my first composition lesson today. My teacher was a fairly avant-garde/20th century person. However, he said that he likes music that is 'considerably hummable', so I guess I don't have to fret about composing in twelve-tones or seralism (and a thing to be happy about is that he's a huge fan of Stravinsky too, at least from what I heard from his music). However, tonality and tonal harmony isn't important anymore; as long as the melody compliments the harmony... And heck knows what I'll compose with that theory...

Phi is actually 1.618, but yes, it's both mind-numbing and interesting.

Oops. ^^' I forgot that we used 0.618 merely for finding the maximum point for a climax of a piece.

Wow, that is a pretty interesting discovery. I might use that in a large scale piece when I come to writing one. :heh: Or I might just be a whore, and use it in every piece. XD

Again, that's a great discovery there Dot--thanks for sharing.

----------

As for repitition, you can always variate the same chord progression by doing MANY things.

What do you mean by "the flute rhythm in the opening was based on the golden ratio"?

Listen to L'Apres Midi d'Un Faune, you'll hear it in the very beginning with the flute solo.

No, I wanted you to explain! I don't just randomly have that song hanging around on my computer!

No, I wanted you to explain! I don't just randomly have that song hanging around on my computer!

x_x You made me go through the nuisance of paint and whatnot~

But anyway,

This rhythm:

http://http://forums.ichigos.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5783&stc=1&d=1188423072 (If the link doesn't work, click the thumbnail below).

is mathetmatically based on the golden ratio. You can hear it as if it's accelerating in a way where it's 'tumbling' as opposed to merely speeding up. It's naturalness is uncomparable to most other accelerating rhythms. It's hard to explain in visuals, you need to really listen to it for yourself, but I have given enough prove that it's valid through my readings and my teacher (if you still insist, google for it yourself).

PS: You should at least have that piece on your computer; it's a famous piece that musicians should be familiar with.

Oh! Isn't that Debussy's Prelude to a Faune Afternoon or something? . . .Although I'm just starting to read sheet music and hear it in my head, that rhythm sounds like it.

- - - -

Me and my theory teacher did about 30 mins. of theory and 2 hours of going on a religious and spiritual tangent. XD He made a good point that all musicians and artists are spiritual but may not be religious. . . .For those who do not know the difference-

If you're religious that means you learn about and act out the teachings that the religious tells you. Ex: Certain Catholics will make the movment of the cross over the chest when a certain styled painting of a biblical figure is in the room.

If you're spiritual this measn that you don't particularily have knowledge of the technicalities of the/a religion, but you have a strong emotional connection with it. Ex. Myself; I can't name the twelve diciples, but I have a very strong connection down in my heart with Christ.

It's also kinda funny that Stravinsky said, "The only religion for an artist is Catholisicsm." And here I am, a normal "Christian." XD

I disagree, however, it's an opinionated matter. Many film composers and whatnot compose merely for money, they put no heart into composing. Furthermore, my own inspiration is pretty much in my mind for most of the time, although vague, I don't really need to relate to anyting in order to compose.

It isn't so much so that you're spiritual with some sort of god-like (just an example) being, but the feeling of emotions of your own rituals.

And composers who are in it for the money, are not artists, for the reason that they compose for money and not for the sake of the film, music, art, etc.

It's kind of funny, because my favorite kind of music is music from films (especially written by John Williams). Most of the really good music in the films does come from an emotional connection to something going on in the movie. The composer may be in it partially for the money, but he would surely have chosen a less risky profession if that's all he was in it for.

Just what I was going to state... if you want money, you don't want to be a film composer.

First Theory class today.

We learned that there are twelve basic tones. :-)

Well, what's the point of being a composer if you're in it for the money. I mean, I think the whole reason somone would want to become one, is:

For 1) To express their feelings to the world through the talent of music of course!

2) To share their talent with the world

I mean, if you want money, then why not become somone like Bill Gates or sumthin, or be a doctor, why waste the money and college education to become a composer if it's just for the money.

I especially like the music put in to the Final Fantasy games, FFVII in particular, man forgot his name (goes to look at square-enix website)

I mean, if you want money, then why not become somone like Bill Gates or sumthin, or be a doctor, why waste the money and college education to become a composer if it's just for the money.



It's not as easy as said, now, is it?

Well, being an incidental composer is good in the sense of you can earn money AND you can do what you like at the same time. However, compared to some other jobs (and depending on your talent), it is a fairly easier way to earn money. That said, it's not easy to find someone to commission you, though.

Which is why it's NOT an easy job.

Which is why it's NOT an easy job.

But comparing to, say (what Crimson Dragon said) a doctor, it's easier. I mean, composing can be done at home and is an independent job. Besides, please do read and realize carefully the fact that I said some.

Well, movie producers don't really get mention much

Well, movie producers don't really get mention much

*Cough* Actually, they may not get much attention, but you definately hear the Producer (at least) 20x more than the composer.

Heh, that still makes me wonder how a composer would still be in it for the money. Really, just like everyone else said, it would epend upon the talent. I mean, I would think that your salary would depend on who and how many people would buy or sign a contract to your music. I mean I know I'm actin game freak like, but the game composers get a hella lot more attention than the movies, at least, in my view, the Japanese especially, i would think composers for games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy get much credit. Mainly because I would think they are more into the expression type, and adding feeling. Which is what basically what a composer is, seriously, I wouldn't think somone would be in it for the money, if they were into something so easy to get money with, I'm sure they would find something so much easier than a composer. And composers also have to pay to hire a conducter and an orchestra/symphony if they haven't already been contracted with a business that would provide so.

The composers aren't the ones to hire the playing ensemble, the company is. :mellow: Composers' job are relatively easier than, say, the game programmers'. I mean, composing nowadays doesn't even need manuscripts and pencils anymore, just plug in some random programs and record some random ideas and voila, you have a rough sketch. Then you send it to the orchestrator and the arrangers and voila, a complete piece. The composers' jobs can be easy, enough said. However, there are those who actually write the entire thing themselves, but those are the talented ones, hence the fact that writing complete pieces wouldn't be bothersome anyways. :mellow:

Heh, I guess it goes to say of that of the fork in the road, and of which the individual chooses....

Pens and papers, manuscripts or DXi-plugins... why does it even matter?
A composer who writes fully-fledged scores manually isn't necessarily a 'better' composer than his computer-using counterpart. In fact, if everyone stuck with the old methods of things, nothing would ever evolve.

Why would I eat with chopsticks when I could just use a fork?

Well, having your music written in an universal way can preserve it for the future. I mean, if all those classicists back then never wrote their music down, then those masterpieces would be forever lost.

Well, perhaps some people like to hold the tradition. As said by Abraham in the bible "Hold close the sacred tradition"

Well, perhaps some people like to hold the tradition. As said by Abraham in the bible "Hold close the sacred tradition"

If you counter Noir's point with that counterpoint (pun), then no, I disagree. Traditional rules should only be used to aid the evolution of new music, and like Noir said, if you hold the tradition without a good reason, then it's pretty pointless. However, I disagree with Noir was merely to the fact that following certain traditions (i.e. notation) can keep the music 'alive'. I mean, if you don't have a hard copy that's universally understandable, then it's gonna be lost sometimes in the future.

Well, still, maybe some people would like to do it the olden ways. Though, I would think that a composer would write the music he's creating first, then maybe digitalize it, or maybe vice versa.

Although I'm somewhat agreeing with you in the point of keeping music traditions, your reasons of why they're using traditional ways to compose are rather... Unreasonable. Writing the music isn't really the most important part of music, but the 'music' itself (when it's performed) is. If you can do it with an easier way to compose music, then of course you'll do it with the easier way. The traditional rules, again, are used to preserve the music so people in the future can look into our music.

Hey guys, if you're a VIP and are interested in composing something. Please read this post.

http://forums.ichigos.com/showpost.php?p=377220&postcount=45889

Although I'm somewhat agreeing with you in the point of keeping music traditions, your reasons of why they're using traditional ways to compose are rather... Unreasonable. Writing the music isn't really the most important part of music, but the 'music' itself (when it's performed) is. If you can do it with an easier way to compose music, then of course you'll do it with the easier way. The traditional rules, again, are used to preserve the music so people in the future can look into our music.
I completely agree with you here. The writing of the music isn't what's important, but, as you put it, "the music itself". That's actually quite the philosophical point of view. *thumbs up* :think:

Heh, there are no right or wrong answers here, just different beliefs and opinions, all of us here are just here to share them. I don't even know why we were argueing so much.

^ Isn't the point of a forum to discuss stuff?

Edit: Oops, I replied to something that someone said like five pages ago. I love how this forum does that.

It's not the forum's fault... it's your own incompetence! :/

Finding all these supplementary listening and score for composition lesson is tough as heck... >< (By any chance, does anyone know the piece "Intimate Letters" String Quartet by Janacek?)

Argh, what do I have to do to be a VIP?!

...
-> Site Announcements and Feedback
-> VIP Access

\o/

I'm currently renting a digital recording studio thingy, plus I've found two violinists, a cellist (still looking for the violist), a flautist, guitarists, and a drummer. Just one more song to polish up, then it looks like my CD's good to go.

:shifty:

Bassist? =S Btw, you're going to sing and play synth/piano right?

Yes, a bassist :shifty:

He was a childhood friend, but we lost contact all these years until just one week ago. When I found out he was in a few bands, plus he could play the bass and drums, I stole him away for myself! =D

I don't have any violists! =(

And yes, I'm singing and playing piano/keyboard. I may get my friend to play the piano for the more-complicated pieces (seeing as how she's far better than I will ever be =D), but she's already doing violin and flute, so we'll see how that works out.

Edit: Damn, I should stick to writing for fewer instruments. What do I know about composing for a string quartet? Nothing!

Edit: I found my violist!!

Edit: Damn, I should stick to writing for fewer instruments. What do I know about composing for a string quartet? Nothing!

Hehe, there's so much to learn to write a string quartet properly. I guess it's an ensemble composers shouldn't underestimate and think 'oh, four instruments, piece of cake'.

Hm... I should try to write some harpsichord music!

No wait, I should try a more synthy sound...

good luck with the recording Al!!:D

When I just saw this, I thought it was Ichigo's trying to compose a song for general chat.

lol...

good luck with the recording Al!!:D

Thanks, my wifey!

Edit: I'll take pics if I can this Sunday.

Edit: Wow, do I ever love string quartets! I thought my performers sounded amazing. I'm so lucky. And I've fallen in love all over again with music ever since I heard my pieces performed live by real people. This is why I compose. Yup.

^ *Wants to buy CD*

He promised that some of us will get a copy for free... ;)

Yeah I know, but I'll pay him anyway, depending on the quality of the content (Which will be awesomenessss).

I'll pay for it. Period. He deserves my $15 (?). ;)

Hope the recording is going well!!

Those who don't get a CD will be able to find my music online once I upload it! So really, there's no need for money. And besides, I don't deserve it.

Anybody else here recording their pieces?

I might possibly, but not in the near future, nor will it be a major project, it's probably just gonna be part of a recital/performance.

I'm recording pieces for my IB Internal Assesments, but not high quality recordings, probably.

I don't want to make a whole 'other thread here, so I hope I can ask some questions here. I'm new to composing but I do hold knowledge of basic theory. I understand what people are saying here most of the time, but it's still overwhelming! (I'm also new to the forum.)

So... *getting to the point.* I'm shopping around for a keyboard. Preferably one the same length, key size, key numbers, etc. as a piano. I see ones on eBay for $100, and then some that goes for a few thousands on the Yamaha site. I'm so confused and overwhelmed and hope somebody could help.

$100 is a joke. The good ones are Yamaha and Roland digital pianos (which you can hook up to your computer aswell), and they good ones go for $900 or more.

A rule of thumb here is not to buy the most expensive one though, but the one you feel the most confortable with.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Thanks Noir7. I'm still researching and doing my homework before I drop a grand or more on a keyboard. I plan to stop by my nearest music store to play with their's a little bit too.

:O IMSLP's gone! ._.;

Yes, and just when I needed a copy of Dvorak's Opus 60 Symphony in D major.

Wish I would have known about that earlier. I'm looking for all of the Beethoven Symphony Scores. We're finally going to start orchestration (I'm done with all the basics of theory; he said that theory kind of just expands on it's own from here on out basically).

Well, I can get all of them on Amazon for about $35 (They come in three seprate books: 1,2,3,4 ; 5,6,7 ; 8,9) . If anyone knows a cheaper price, let me know.

I also very happy; we're doing more composition stuff now. (Finally) Starting to write a piece in sonata form--EDR. I'm probably going to start posting what stuff that I'm doing with my lessons. Maybe not soon, but soon enough.

Hey, What do you guys think of Having another Compostion contest... Only this time for beginners? I understand there were not alot of people in the last one. But some how I picture it would be a little different this time.

Or how about a piano composition contest. :P

Hmmm, I suppose. But thats kinda besides the point.

Hey, What do you guys think of Having another Compostion contest... Only this time for beginners? I understand there were not alot of people in the last one. But some how I picture it would be a little different this time.

I find one problem affiliated with this: how would one define a "beginner"? :heh:

*I'm still wondering if we're going on with an idea from earlier in this thread; an "opposite (style) contest". :think:

I find one problem affiliated with this: how would one define a "beginner"? :heh:

*I'm still wondering if we're going on with an idea from earlier in this thread; an "opposite (style) contest". :think:
Well, I'd say a beginner is some one who has not composed a surtain number of pieces. Another way to look at it would be to not count in the best composers on Ichigo.

Sorry.. I didnt see that one thread.

Someone that is inexperienced and have a poor or basic knowledge about of what he or she is doing, in this case music, so that mean a contest for people that just know something and are starting to write/compose music? I think a beginner should wait until he or she feels is good enough and know better all for later participate in contests and show a good work to others. Btw there are good composers that don't have too much works and beginners that has lots of music that they have done. Anyway, I would like to participate if there is any contest! Last time I was so busy and late that I could not enter a piece xD

Good point
Then intermediate might be better in this case.:heh:

There should be some way to get count how many people would participate. Maybe a Poll would help...

If one keeps participating in 'beginner' level contests, then one will never improve as a composer. Even though if it may sound a little harsh, I don't find it necessary to compromise with starting composers. I mean, if those beginning composers really wish to become better, one of the way to improve is by entering more advanced contests and spend much much more time on learning about composition techniques and etc... Even if one does not win in these contests, he or she could still gain knowledge of what will make their compositions better. I mean, if you're a winner as a 'beginning composer', then that's what you'll always be, but never any better.

PS: I promise you, even if you do become first place in contests and whatnots, there's always something more to look forward to, aspire to, and to be envy of, hence beginner composers should not be too too proud about certain achievements they could accomplish. However, I digress; just remember this: if you really wish to become a better composer, strive to be a composer, not a winner, and not anything else. One composes merely because one loves composing, everything else are just extras and things that one earns on the way of being a better composer.

I'm all for a contest. I'd probably lose just because I can't orchestrate a piece to save my life...but as Dot said, no harm can come from entering a contest.

If one keeps participating in 'beginner' level contests, then one will never improve as a composer. Even though if it may sound a little harsh, I don't find it necessary to compromise with starting composers. I mean, if those beginning composers really wish to become better, one of the way to improve is by entering more advanced contests and spend much much more time on learning about composition techniques and etc...
I wholeheartedly agree. I know this because I have experienced it myself competing in contests here on ichigos with such people as Noir7, shizeet, Maestrosetti, Thorn, and many of the other composers (or people who used to be on ichigos but now have stopped participating) here on the forums.

Okay, I'm not sure where this is supposed to go (either as a new thread or in an already-existing thread), but sorry if this is in the wrong place:

How do you make .pdf files for sheet music? Is there a step-by-step process somewhere that I can find?

Okay, I'm not sure where this is supposed to go (either as a new thread or in an already-existing thread), but sorry if this is in the wrong place:

How do you make .pdf files for sheet music? Is there a step-by-step process somewhere that I can find?

If you use Finale Notepad, or any other music notation program that lets you print music, download PDF995. (Check Google.)

If you use Finale Notepad, or any other music notation program that lets you print music, download PDF995. (Check Google.)

Yeah, I got it. Thanks, though.

Maybe we should hold a Sonata and/or Suite Competition?

Something with movements would be fun.

Sonata...sounds exciting! :b

Maybe we should hold a Sonata and/or Suite Competition?

I have been thinking about writing a suite for a LONG time now. :heh:

Speaking of contests... I have this strange idea for a contest:

Why don't we do some sort of dedication compositions for other composers of the forum?

I don't know anybody xD but made me think of music that fall with the personality of another person not his/her music, their personality. but still I know no one! xD

Speaking of contests... I have this strange idea for a contest:

Why don't we do some sort of dedication compositions for other composers of the forum?

Very interesting. :think: It wouldn't hurt to try something new. ^_^

Just to say, then we would all have to "sign-up" for it, and not just "show-up" for it.

We should have our names put in, and then somebody is matched up with somebody else. . .and go from it from there.

Just to say, then we would all have to "sign-up" for it, and not just "show-up" for it.

We should have our names put in, and then somebody is matched up with somebody else. . .and go from it from there.

The question is, how will we match everyone up? I was thinking about assigning everyone an integer between 1 and x (total amount of entries). :heh:

Instrument question: Does anyone know to what pitch the Bass Drum is tuned to? :think: My band director once had to tune it in the middle of a rehearsal (with a tuba), and I don't remember the pitch.

There's no definite pitch for a bass drum. However, it can be tuned relatively by tightening the two face of the drums. But if you were to write for bass drums that are in tune with other instruments, don't bother. However, something you may adjust it the bass fundamental of the bass drum (in another words, how booming the sound will be).

Holy moley my PM box is finally full at 775 messages O__o

Ooops. My bad. XD

The compositions forums are progressively getting more and more inactive; at least more inactive compared to when I first joined... :\ There are a few newbies posting here and there, but where's everyone else?

I'm working on something. I'll post it when I'm done.

Of course...no one did comment on my last song.

Uhm, my theory teacher was having an "off" day today, and said for me to incorporate the German, Italian and French vi dim. chords in my sonata. Could someone give me a Finale screenshot of them? (G major would help, but any key would be fine). I hate asking him over the phone, it's just he'd say play an Italian, and somehow I would play a German one. . .the medications he takes kind of mess him up. Heh.

Thanks in advance.

Deutsch: Ab-C-Eb-F# (of C Major)

Italiano: Ab-C-F# (of C Major)

Francais: Ab-C-D-F# (of C major)

Transpose it all up a fifth for G major and resolve them carefully.

The compositions forums are progressively getting more and more inactive; at least more inactive compared to when I first joined... :\ There are a few newbies posting here and there, but where's everyone else?

I'm working on this ballad-esk/song thing. I'm not sure of the lyrics yet :heh: which is proving to be the toughest part of the whole thing so far. I'm going to try to use sound samples, but if it doesn't turn out right I'll just post my Finale file.

The compositions forums are progressively getting more and more inactive; at least more inactive compared to when I first joined... :\ There are a few newbies posting here and there, but where's everyone else?

Let's see: :think:

I've been stuck on projects and whatnot lately, but let's just say that I'm working on a piece for full orchestra, as usual. :heh: The weird thing is, I seem to change key a lot in this piece; the first 8 chords (also consisting of the first 8 notes) are Ab Minor, E Minor, F# Minor, E Diminished, B Diminished, D Major7, E, F#; and obviously with some inversions on some of these chords. :heh:

That is all I will say... for now. :lol:

Deutsch: Ab-C-Eb-F# (of C Major)

Italiano: Ab-C-F# (of C Major)

Francais: Ab-C-D-F# (of C major)

Transpose it all up a fifth for G major and resolve them carefully.

Ok, I had the right chords, I just didn't know the names. Thanks a bunch Dot.

Let's see: :think:

I've been stuck on projects and whatnot lately, but let's just say that I'm working on a piece for full orchestra, as usual. :heh: The weird thing is, I seem to change key a lot in this piece; the first 8 chords (also consisting of the first 8 notes) are Ab Minor, E Minor, F# Minor, E Diminished, B Diminished, D Major7, E, F#; and obviously with some inversions on some of these chords. :heh:

That is all I will say... for now. :lol:

All I can say is that I'm glad I've learned enough to understand that. *rock-hands*

The compositions forums are progressively getting more and more inactive; at least more inactive compared to when I first joined... :\ There are a few newbies posting here and there, but where's everyone else?

I know what you mean. When I joined two years ago, there were new compositions every day I checked (which was about once a day). It seems like everyone has either left, or just given up composing. Myself, I am just going through a phase. . .I am doing more "projects" with my teacher than solo-composition at the moment. I'll be making a numbering system: E (Experiments) and C (Composition) systems. I'll probably post more E's than C's here, for the reason that I feel that I am slowly getting more fluent in "better" sounding works.

The compositions forums are progressively getting more and more inactive; at least more inactive compared to when I first joined... :\ There are a few newbies posting here and there, but where's everyone else?

I agree with the above post that most have probably either left or given up.

Maybe the well known forum composers are scaring everyone else from posting anything? The thing with composition is a lot of people when they first start expect to instanly be able to write something as amazing as whatever the piece was that inspired them to compose. When this doesnt happen, they get frustrated and think why do I bother.

I havent had much time for composing at the moment as I am smack in the middle of conservatoire auditions. Also I'm currently studying the theories of Messiaen and trying to incorporate these into my compositions; so it may be quite a while until i really get the hang of it and post again.

Deutsch: Ab-C-Eb-F# (of C Major)

Italiano: Ab-C-F# (of C Major)

Francais: Ab-C-D-F# (of C major)

Transpose it all up a fifth for G major and resolve them carefully.

Would you care to explain what the heck you're talking about? I probably won't need to know that until college, but I'm now very curious.

Go wikipedia or google German sixths, French sixths and Italian sixths. I'm sure there are sites that explains them better than I can. However, they are useful chords for modulating.

Hmmm...I see.

Another problem with the lack of activity could also be the fact that we (and yes, I definitely include myself in this accusation), as the more experienced composers, refuse to comment on some of the worse stuff, and therefore, there's very little retention of new composers.

While I myself am busy recording my old/new pieces. 3 left to record! You guys will get to hear it this December.

I really can't wait Al!

Maybe I should try to comment more. We'll see how that plays out. XD

Deathraider if that was you who threw bird seeds at me on 12 Blander Street last week I'd appreciate if you told me yourself, instead of me learning about it from a third part.

Oh, sorry. I've had my minions tailing you for about a year now, but I guess one of them got bored and wanted to see how much he could annoy you. I guess the next thing you should expect is to wake up in the middle of the night to extremely dissonant and out of tune chords being screamed in the next room just to grind your gears.:whistle:

While I myself am busy recording my old/new pieces. 3 left to record! You guys will get to hear it this December.

I've been getting a little unpatient. Hehe. I can't even listen to your older pieces, due to. . they aren't in here. XD EXTREMEMLY looking forward to hearing your CD, Al!

What do (all of) you prefer as a recording program? I'm trying to record stuff through Smartmusic, but it uses so much memory when I have Finale on at the same time, and random "crack" noises are heard when I use them both. ._.; (This is recording to make a .mp3 file. The reason I'm asking is because I don't want to post .wmv files.)

What do (all of) you prefer as a recording program? I'm trying to record stuff through Smartmusic, but it uses so much memory when I have Finale on at the same time, and random "crack" noises are heard when I use them both. ._.; (This is recording to make a .mp3 file. The reason I'm asking is because I don't want to post .wmv files.)

I use my own soundcard and the recording function that comes with it. But my other option is through Sibelius 5 itself.

For recording, I have a soundcard, a fairly good mic, and Sonar 4: Home (or whatever it's called). I don't use it much, because my piano. . .well, sucks. XD

Finale records for me :)


(This is recording to make a .mp3 file. The reason I'm asking is because I don't want to post .wmv files.)

You could always record a .wmv and then convert it to an mp3, couldn't you?

You could always record a .wmv and then convert it to an mp3, couldn't you?

:heh: Problem solved. I just downloaded Audacity (which I thought was just for Mac at first). :lol:

Yay, my organ piece is being played tomorrow! ^_^

*is jealous*

Random question.

When notating the Tunning notes for Timpani, I have a low Ab, a C, and an high Ab. How would I notate that?

Write it the way you usually do it. However, add markings of which drums you want the notes to be played on. You don't need to do it for repeating notes, though.

Random question.

When notating the Tunning notes for Timpani, I have a low Ab, a C, and an high Ab. How would I notate that?

I usually make an Ossia of the 3 or 4 notes (right next to the staff name) that I want the timpani tuned to. But, on Finale, it's too much to do, so I would suggest staying out of it unless you know what you're doing. :heh:

*EDIT: Or you may ask me how to do it by PM. :heh:

*EDIT2: Ok, I have a question. This is one of those things that I should know, but don't, and it has been bugging me for a while. x_x

On scores, I sometimes see, for example: a flute, with "Piccolo ad lib." marked next to it. I know what ad lib. means, but how does it work in this case?

On scores, I sometimes see, for example: a flute, with "Piccolo ad lib." marked next to it. I know what ad lib. means, but how does it work in this case?

Switch to piccolo and play in the style of ad lib.

PS: If you were to do the ossia thing, do it in the beginning so the timpanist gets time to tune it. However, timpanist would usually figure it out even if you just tell them which size of drum you want them to use for certain notes.

Does anyone know where to find free sound/special effects?

EDIT: Found this site http://www.stonewashed.net/sfx.html

Any Bowie fans here?

David Bowie or Lester Bowie?

David..

For months and months when I see this thread name in the Composition section, I kept thinking it was a plan for a composition that represents the air of general chat in our forums.

It would be a good idea if someone can do that.

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but: what's your muse?

Why is it so hard for me to finish one of my compositions? It is very easy for me to start an idea, I even map out the whole piece and I pretty much know how I want it to start and finish. but when it comes down to sitting there and writing it down, The thoughts just stop flowing, I freeze up. I start getting lost as to what I wanted to do with it, and I start just writing down notes that dont make that much sense, and are not the original idea that I planned out, and then the whole piece goes in a different direction and I start dissliking it because it doesnt sound that good. Any ideas why? Am I just not cut out to be a composer, and yet im always having new ideas? I even tried just quiting, to stop composing all together, but then I would fall short of my dream of becoming a really good composer.

You just described 98% of all composers in the world. Believe me, you're not in trouble :P

So I guess the best thing to do is to keep trying. Not expect to much, because im really still a beginner. And go for easier stuff, which I tend not to do. I suppose its makes it all harder since I write most of my stuff by hand on a blank sheet of staff paper. Still, I've only finished about 2 pieces in 2-3 years of trying. The rest are about 10-20 different ideas that havn't been finished. Anyways.. Thanks, I guess it helps to know that its normal.

You're already doing the best thing possible at this point (i.e., writing down your ideas and putting them away for safe keeping)... so you can always come back to them whenever you have the inspiration.

There was something that I came up with last semester of my senior year of high school... and I couldn't actually expand it until just a few weeks ago as a freshman in college... And even then, it's only a minute long and thoroughly unfinished. XD

Merry Christmas everyone :D

And to you as well! *gives large virtual gift bag to Noir7*

Merry Christmas fellow musicians! May you continue to . . er . . write music.

Merry Christmas to everybody, I wish you the best!

Indeed, Merry Christmas, and Happy Holidays!

Happy Holidays to everyone! :)

Happy New Year, everyone! :D

Woohoo, this thread surpassed 20,000 views!

yay?
not a very happy new year here but i hope the best to all of you^_^

Question: Can most Sopranos sing a Bb above the staff or is the limit A... OR am I way totally off. :heh:

Sopranos that have proper training should have no problem with that note.

Yay, the Mack Wilberg Requiem came out on CD today; they released it two months early!!!
*can't wait until he gets to listen again*

Yes, sopranos can sing that high, but to avoid tuning problems, high notes are best avoided in choir settings. But if it's soloist, then it's not a problem.

That's true, although it's okay for like a climactic ending chord or something.

Whoa, so I just found out that I have the opportunity to have my music played for a whole new audience... the radio x_x

COuld I request? I need songs that are... space-like. COuld anyone help me?

This might not be the place for requests, I think, but I can't make a thread... so there.

So, for everyone in the contest, how is everything going? I have a feeling this is going to be the most intense competition this forum has seen yet!

But we say that every time, ne? It just ends as it always does, one wins and the others lose :(

To me, it doesn't matter if there's a winner or loser, as long as new music is being written! Keep on going guys!

Hey guys how is it going? I'm new to the board.

I do solemnly swear to never use GM ever again (got the colossus library). :lol:

For anyone who uses Finale 2008 (or anyone who uses the Solo Cello KS instrument, but not from the Full GPO):

Does anyone know how to get the pizz. marking to work (Solo Cello KS)? Human Playback is apparently supposed to be able to play it if it shows up in the score, and there is not a separate instrument for Solo Cello pizz..

Make sure that you clicked the right Pizz. in the Expression Tool. One will say in gray right after it it's for GPO.

Holy crap, I just got my forehead signed by Jack Wall (after which Tommy Tallarico offered to sign my butt :P)

Nice! What did they play?

Oh shoot...they had a bunch of medleys so it's hard to remember everything. They played stuff from Mario, Zelda, Halo, Advent Rising, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, and then some classic games such as Gauntlet, Frogger, Pong, Space Invaders, Castlevania, etc. It was pretty cool, but sometimes Tommy Tallarico tended to steal the spotlight from the orchestra, which the orchestra was amazing (Utah Symphony Orchestra, usually conducted by Keith Lockhart, and therefore internationally acclaimed).

Hahahaha, I just texted ChaCha.com asking what the secondary dominant of the ii chord in E Major was, and they said F# Major. The correct answer is C# major.

Pop quizzes are fun!

This is a question that I thought I would be able find out the answer to, but I haven't, and it has bothered me:

When listening to Modern music (Ravel, Debussy, Stravinsky, etc.), how does one analyze organization? I was told one time that the "harmonies and dissonances are logical," but how so? I've already tried to attempt to understand this by putting Ravel's last movement of Ma mere l'oye ("Le jardin féerique") into two staves, but I still don't understand how the harmonies are logical.

Thanks to whomever can help.

Well...I am not a student of Ravel's earlier music. I can help you out with his later stuff, though. Some of it is modal, some of it is polytonal, and some of it just heavily uses sevenths, ninths, and even up to thirteenth chords and stuff.

Hey people if someone interested, pianoteq is giving 3 licenses in a contest where you need to tell what composers are in a medley they give you in a mp3 of ten extract of pieces. Some may be piano works as some may be piano transcriptions of orchestral works. The contest will end in some days. Just if anyone interested in pianoteq.

here is the link:
http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=280

And don't discuss the medley here or any other forum, the original post in pianoteq forum says it in the link.

Well...I am not a student of Ravel's earlier music. I can help you out with his later stuff, though. Some of it is modal, some of it is polytonal, and some of it just heavily uses sevenths, ninths, and even up to thirteenth chords and stuff.

Theank you. I'll let you know if I need help with anything, since I never thought of using 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths before. :lol:

Hmm... some people just don't seem to understand that in order to receive comments, it is a good idea to give them...
*hint hint* ;)

This thread sure died...

A question of opinion: what are your opinions of using polychords?

Well, personally I don't have much to say about them. I think it can add more variety to the music and can bring different atmospheres. I like to use them, I find it pleasant to my ears. ;p

I say "Just do it."

Could anyone here explain to me the technique of "plaining" a chord? I haven't found anything about this on Google...

I would hazard a guess that it means you simplify it to the basic triad (if it has added 7ths, 9ths, etc., then you take those out). If that's not it, it could be that you simplify the chord progression. Besides that, I have no idea.

My band director told me that it sounds like Ravel uses this technique ("plaining a chord") in this excerpt of Daphnis et Chloé :

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/Bbclarinetist/3-2.png

... however, I have yet to figure out how to analyze this, notably that F#-E dissonance created from the cello pizz. and the violin II; and also, the double bass pizz. and the viola.

Hmmm...from what I have found online it sounds like some sort of chord progression that uses the same chord but transposes it into different keys or something. I'm not entirely sure...

There is a new contest of pianoteq, again offering 3 licenses of their product. If anyone interested to try, here is the link: http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=412

For those who have taken a theory class: how does one recognize polytonality in a piece by looking at a score? I mean, sometimes it's extremely obvious, but at times it is not. Here's the example I want to try to understand (from Ravel's Daphnis et Chloé):

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/Bbclarinetist/1-11.png

From where does Ravel get these ( ^ ) chords? I asked a friend about this before; he said it's probably polytonality and to try looking before it and see what's there. Here it is (split in 2):

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/Bbclarinetist/2-4.png
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/Bbclarinetist/3-3.png

Thanks to whomever can help.

Did you discover it?

----------------------------

Yesterday I saw this site that helps you to identify tunes, I think it can help to those that does not know the name of a piece and want to have it. I tried to use it and I failed to find the pieces I wanted (Not really easy to find the ones I want to know). But I tried with other pieces I know and I did find them without problems. Maybe can help somewhat, here is:

http://www.musipedia.org/index.php?id=1&L=0

For those who have taken a theory class: how does one recognize polytonality in a piece by looking at a score? I mean, sometimes it's extremely obvious, but at times it is not. Here's the example I want to try to understand (from Ravel's Daphnis et Chloé):

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/Bbclarinetist/1-11.png

From where does Ravel get these ( ^ ) chords? I asked a friend about this before; he said it's probably polytonality and to try looking before it and see what's there. Here it is (split in 2):

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/Bbclarinetist/2-4.png
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j266/Bbclarinetist/3-3.png

Thanks to whomever can help.

I haven't had modern theory yet, but it looks like for the first example, the chord from the higher 2nd violin voice up is the same chord as the chord from the viola up to the lower 2nd violin voice. Would that be plaining? Or is it only for chord changes?

Those tremelo chords do seem to shift up and down by whole steps (with the exception of that F natural in the second violin). And there is an complete whole step shift down in the second half of the second measure of that first excerpt.

As for polytonality, I'm not sure either. I have a hard time with these cases when the chords are densely packed - don't know whether to interpret it as two chords in two modes or a 9th or 11th chord or whatnot.

Actually, this would probably be a better question to ask at Young Composers - they've got a whole bunch of orchestration and theory buffs there, and people there in general seem to be a more "modern" classical music crowd.