I think I see what Al means. It's the first note of the left hand which keeps beating four times a measure. It's like "dun dun dun dun..." all the time =P After a while, this note is a bit overwhelming indeed.

OK, here's a link to the newest version of my song, which will hopefully be very close to the final version, if not THE final version.x_x
There's a fairly durastic change, but it's not quite as *far out* as the last durastic change I tried. It is a little strange, though, because it switches between 3/4, 4/4, and 12/8 time.

http://www.zshare.net/audio/sonata-for-all-seasons-autumn-mp3-wse.html

Hm... For your orchestrated piece... The harp arps were fine, but when the strings and flute came in, it sounded waaayyy to harsh... I suggest you to make them come in in different times, and also, use bass string parts to reinforce the bass part, as a real life piano's bass cannot support the bass part over a heavy countermelody part on top, but in this case, you can also use bass brass. :think: Also, becareful about your voluming, like I've mentioned, the piano should be much softer in this case, as it has less carrying power as you'd think in a normal piece... :think: Definately work on it though, just read more about orchestration and learn each of the instruments carefully (don't listen to midis... find some real orchestra playing and hear how each instrument sound). ;)

Yeah, the examples that I normally try to use are recordings of John Williams' music. I also agree with what you said about my orchestral piece. I actually started working on it again and made seperate entrances before you said that.

The hopefully final sheet music:

*Claps*

Nice edits on that. Like you said before, a 'drastic change' was made in it.

I love what you did. Make a really good development section, as well as a Coda too.

*Bravo* great job, and I think it might be finished-due to me.

(Sorry for no constructive critisizm, but it sounds fine to me.)

Hmm... Not bad. :P Not bad at all.

The changes we're good. They kinda gave the piece a sort of... ummm... I can't think of the word right now... Kinda like... Uh, clarity? :think: Well, whatever, what matters is that it's a great song! :)

This song that I'm posting is just something that I started working on, but I don't know what it is yet:heh:. I was looking for some advice on how to improve on what I have so far.

Edit: I added the midi and mus, since I was going to before. Any ideas for a name? Also, after about 1:15, where there's a big pause. Those were just some ideas for later.

Well, that's one hell of a start. That's one thing for sure.

I love that ambient feel you get from it. It does not need a specified melody, it's chords and harmony is just all it needs, and just gives it that much needed simplify feeling.

I am hearing a Classical, Romantic, Modern Japanise and Ambient ('Scene Music') sounds from this piece. As well as a pinch of Celtic feelings too.

To contrinue this, let the piano slowly come out a little more, and make it have a short solo and have the strings slow (instrument by instrument) come in for either an ending, or another section (A key change would be nice in this. The style fits nice for it.)

Great start, would LOVE to see this beautiful piece finished in the future.

And remember, the more effort you put into it, the better it sounds.

Good luck. ;)

Maestro~, do you mean at the beginning, or just where the piano entrance is now?

When I mentioned the piano, it's where the piano came in. Just to clear that up.

Hmmm.. Idea's for a name?

Here's one:

The Fields of Memoirs

Just one pointer, when writing for strings... don't think of it as one single pad. There are violins, violas, cellos and basses. But I guess if you're just going for a MIDI composition, it's fine.

Ooooh... Good work, although, I would also like to ditto Noir7's comment about the strings stuff, and to add on to it, a typical orchestral string ensemble should have violins 1, violins 2, viole (violas), celli, and contrabasses, so yeah, you should try to write for that ensemble instead of putting it all on one staff, and if you think that 5 instruments are too much, you can always take out contrabasses or make it double the celli one octave lower. Another thing about orchestration to point out is that you're putting the oboe in quite a 'heavy' register, anything from B flat below the middle C to around E on the bottom of the staff are kind of 'heavy'. Also, even if the ambience of this piece is pretty nice, still add a melody. ;)

that sounds like it should have been in FF:CC! really.......edible....can't think of the right word to describe it..
PS: is that the final edit of SFAS-Autumn?

That's very good! :eek: It's very atmospheric. Great ideas! :lol:

I DID add a melody. I don't understand. Even if I didn't, I would make sure that the melody was the chords. (that's an impressionistic method)

As for strings, I only put it as one staff instead of multiple staves because my computer doesn't have a lot of memory, and every instrument on GPO takes up a bunch of memory. The instruments I have already take up a TON. As for the heavy oboe, I'm NOT changing where it is. The only thing I MAY be willing to do is change it to a different woodwind instrument, but what instrument would work?

They say that the oboe part and flute parts are usually quite the same. Although I find its sound closer to a reed instrument

Well I can't make it Flute, because I've already got a flute. I think heavy sounds good in this case anyway...

Keep it to what you want.

As for strings, I only put it as one staff instead of multiple staves because my computer doesn't have a lot of memory, and every instrument on GPO takes up a bunch of memory. The instruments I have already take up a TON. As for the heavy oboe, I'm NOT changing where it is. The only thing I MAY be willing to do is change it to a different woodwind instrument, but what instrument would work?

Even if you have more than one track of the same instruments, you can still use the same patch. (I assume you used Full String KS, so yeah, make 5 tracks (Violin 1, Violin 2, Viola, Cello and Contrabass) and set them all to Full String KS, I think it won't take anymore RAM as they're all teh same instrument... It just uses the same patch and its polyphony thing.) :think:

Edit: As for your oboe concern, I suggest you change it to a clarinet, as the notes are at a better advantage for clarinet rather than oboe. Just remember this little orchestration ditty I read: bassoon is happy on the bass staff, clarinet is happy on the bottom of the treble staff, oboe is happy on the treble staff, and flute is happy on top of the treble staff.

Edit 2:
They say that the oboe part and flute parts are usually quite the same. Although I find its sound closer to a reed instrument

Definitely NOT. They do that a lot in band compositions, but DO NOT ever do that, because all oboists (including me) 101% hate it. Plus, oboe's nasal and melodic quality will surely overshadow the smoothness of flute. So try not to double oboe with anything brass, strings or some woodwinds unless you want a special effect (like Schubert doubled clarinet with oboe for a mysterious quality and etc...), but if you don't know what you're doing, don't do it. Oboe *COULD* possibly only double bassoon in octaves as they are both double reed instrument and have some same qualities.

Well, if I decide to do sheet music for actual orchestration, I'll be sure to make seperate tracks, but it DOES in fact load the patch seperately each time. BTW, in orchestral pieces that I make, please refrain from commenting on sheet music for it until I'm done, because I don't really care about it until I'm done.

I'll *try* clarinet, but I happen to like the Oboe so far.

i adore your sonata for all seasons - autumn!
really, i'm not a very enthusiastic person but this song is simply wonderful..

Thank you!

OK, here's something I started writing in the middle of the night last night, and decided it's Sonata for All Seasons - Winter material. It's kind of weird because there isn't really a tonal center to the piece. It just keeps changing. It's the first piece in a REALLY long time that I've actually come up with on the piano, and the first that I've actually written out by hand. I just have a midi because the .mus and .mp3 sound really bad because there's not nearly enough rubato and it won't pedal it right. Tell me what you think.

Edit: I changed my mind about putting up the .mus. I want people to be able to see the actual music.

This would really suit a game. It can repeat over and over again without a person knowing where the end is. Definately mysterious, I love music like this amongst many. I feel like it's missing something though, like howls or a choir, some wind effects and stuff. I keep picturing winter when I hear this. Lonely, cold, abandoned, that's what I feel.

Go deathraider! This music is deep! lol

Well, I can't really put in any of the above since it's a piano sonata, so you'll have to imagine them.

Well, there's no one who'll cut your fingers off if you do add those effects, even though it's a sonata. Back to your piece:

There's so little in this first draft so I don't know what to think. It's definately weaker than your previous movements, but I guess if you have something up your sleeve it could work. Also, the Finale score says "Sonata for all Seasons - Autumn" in the copyright field. You might wanna change that.

Chromaticism. It might not have a set tonal centre, but it does have something base on. But as for your actual piece, it's pretty dull if you put this as the main thematic element, thus, if you're not careful enough, it could possibly get quite messy if you add ornamentations and all that. All I'll say is to somehow either improve on it or get another idea, and you should also remember your theme is 'winter', use your ornamentations and other stuff wisely to achieve your effect. Good luck. ;)

Well, it's mostly just an intro, although a long one. No, I wouldn't presume to make that the theme, but I don't want it to be dull, either. To me, Chromaticism is rarely dull. Did I use the ornamentation badly?

BTW, please listen to the midi, and if you want to look at the music, THEN go look at the .mus. The midi is actually me playing the piece, so it's a lot less dull.

I think maybe it could sound a little less desolate in the beginning. Something in a mildly better mood to transition from fall would be nice, then shift into this. I think it works quite well as an intro, though. Can't wait to hear the body. ;)

Hm... :\ If this were to be an introductory section, wouldn't it be too dull? I mean, introductions usually grab people's attention, but this one didn't work for me. And you never really had any ornamentations, it's too straightforward, even if it's played live via MIDI.

Personally, I enjoyed this a lot. I love the mood, and I totally agree with KK. Good job, in my opinion. :) I have nothing to rant about at the moment. XD

Very nice pieces the autumn for all seasons, where can I find the finished 'Try for Light' version by the way? ^_^ or isn't it finished yet? :(

It's not finished. I'm having a REALLY hard time staying focused on any one peice, so I have a ton of unfinished pieces that I've posted.

You should definitely finish that one though!

OK, I completed an arrangement of a really good song by Mack Wilberg called "Jesu, the Very Thought is Sweet." Basically, I had to change it from SSAATTBB, and organ to SB, organ, and flute duet, because I'll be performing it sometime in September.

For your arrangement, you made the second flute too close to the organ part in the beginning, so therefore the organ will overpower the flute for sure. So keep the two instruments a distance from each other. Some of your voicing in organ is kind of messy as well... So fix that. And I don't think breath marks are necessary in the piece, the choir should know how to snatch a breath at rests and all that. Around bar 134-140, you doubled the organ with flute, which is not a good thing, cos organ has a much more powerful carrying power will surely over power the flutes, so if you insist on doing this, what's the point of the flute if it isn't gonna be heard? But it's a fine arrangement overall... Although I didn't quite like the piece... Good job nonetheless and good luck with your performance. ;)

I don't think anyone does notice this, but in the Instrument List, do you ever switch the Volume # and the Pan #?.... (deathraider).

I'm assuming that the Flutes, Sopr. and Bari. are the melody...
(V- Volume, P- Pan)
Soprano- V-127, P-127
Baritone- V-127, P-127
Flute I- V-101, P-99
Flute II- V-101, P-119
Organ (you only need to do it on one of the staffs)- V-114, P-10

Just a suggestion. ;)

Organ (you only need to do it on one of the staffs)- V-114, P-10

Just a suggestion. ;)

Organ cannot express dynamics... Only in one volume... :huh:

Well, I didn't do any of the organ really. The only organ part I did was from measures 87-101, so too bad. The Flute and the organ too close? I doubt it will overpower the flute because it's just an electric organ, but we'll see when we do the practice. As for breath marks, I just followed what was already in the music. It's not for a choir, just for a duet with my older sister in church.

I guess I should have said that the main reason I posted this on my thread was because I really like the song, so I wanted to share it. I'm sorry you didn't like it. If you heard the real version, you would probably like it a lot better. It was performed by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir on the CD "Consider the Lilies" if you want to hear the original version. That version actually has strings instead of organ mostly, and it is beautiful. I don't really have an orchestra, though, so I just went with what I had the resources for.

Edit: the stuff with volume and pan I have no idea about, because I don't deal with any of that. I just use Finale and it does dynamics for me. The organ does also have different volumes, but it's a lot harder to change from note to note in a song because it's done by a volume control rather than by how quickly you strike a key.

Organ cannot express dynamics... Only in one volume...

:heh: Didn't know that (Note to self: MUST STUDY!).

EDIT: After doing all the numerical stuff I recently posted, here's what Finale popped out...

Organ cannot express dynamics... Only in one volume... :huh:

This is not excactly true, I don't know how to explain how it works on an organ, but knowing I've been playing organ myself since I was 5 I should know this ^_^, but there's this kind of 'button' at the very bottom of the organ (almost at the ground) which you can turn like little bits up and down to change the volume. I know it isn't like you can put loads of expression into a song but you can definitely change the volume while playing! =D

Yeah, isn't that just velocity? Expression isn't quite the same thing.

This is not excactly true, I don't know how to explain how it works on an organ, but knowing I've been playing organ myself since I was 5 I should know this ^_^, but there's this kind of 'button' at the very bottom of the organ (almost at the ground) which you can turn like little bits up and down to change the volume. I know it isn't like you can put loads of expression into a song but you can definitely change the volume while playing! =D

But I assume you'd be too busy playing the organ and not have time to change the main velocity. ;) So it's only possible when there are rests or something, I assume.

well I'm not all that good on organ myself as I always just played some random classic dutch stuff, but my uncle is a very experienced organ player, he has like loads of organs at his home too, every room of his house you go in you can find at least 2 of them ^_^
Anyways, I'll try to record him playing once and you'll notice you can easily change the main velocity while playing ^_^ (In some songs you actually HAVE to change it)

So it's only possible when there are rests or something, I assume.

Don't assume. You should probably trust people who have a lot more experience with the organ than you, such as PFK and Mack Wilberg.

Can we please return to the main topic now that we have that cleared up?

wOOt, I performed the piece with my sister, the flautists and the organist (which BTW had no problem whatsoever changing the volume according to what the music called for, since the music was written for someone who OFTEN writes for one of the largest organs in the world, in the Conference Center in Salt Lake City) did so well! If I can, I will make a recording and post it. None of the mentioned "problems" actually turned out to be "problems," at least not in our small-scale performance.

Anyway, I wanted to post an update of "sample" from earlier in the thread. I've decided to call it Menuet du Clair (Minuet of Light), and it will be my contest entry. I just wanted some final advice before I finish the ending and submit it.

I will give a full review in the voting topic, but thumbs up for now! (Oh, and it does't sound performed... it sounds MIDI-ish? :think: )

But I assume you'd be too busy playing the organ and not have time to change the main velocity. ;) So it's only possible when there are rests or something, I assume.

When you play an organ, you don't change the velocity. There are tons of shutters in front of the pipes that you can open and close with a pedal. This changes the volume. I know you're thinking that when you look at an organ you don't see any boxes. That's because you're normally looking at a facade. You definitely see only a fraction of the pipes. You can also change the volume by picking different stops. All of this can be done in the middle of a note.

EDIT:
I love Mack Wilberg, by the way.

I actually had the chance to be directed by him in a large (by large, I mean 16,000 people) choir once. 'Twas cool. Thanks for clearing that up once and for all, though.

Noir7, what do you mean by "it sounds midi-ish"? That's really vague, and if that's the case I want to fix it.

Never mind, I read your post incorrectly. I thought you said that this version was performed, and it certainly doesn't sound 'real' so to say :)

Menuet du Clair (http://www.zshare.net/audio/sampleocm-mp3.html)

This is basically my first full piece utilising even part of an orchestra. This is supposed to be an installment of the joint effort between Maestrosetti and I to create an "Elemental Suite" of sorts, incorporating Light, Dark, Fire, Water, Earth, and I don't remember what other ones. I'm in charge of Light, Water, and Earth. This is what I finally came up with for the "Light" movement (the word "clair" in French means light, hence titles such as Clair de Lune or Menuet du Clair).

As for what some people have said about the non-danciness of the piece, I was more referring to the time signature than the style of the piece. I've actually heard certain Ravel "Menuets" that are not very dance-like at all. Perhaps I will rethink its name, though.

Some people said this song was boring, and all I don't really know what to say to that. I have tried my hardest to make it interesting.

As for comments on how the roll of the piano is a bit unclear, I will try to fix that later, because I feel the same way, but for now this is how it's staying.

Edit: And yes, it reminds me of Lord of the Rings, too. Multiple people have said that.

I already commented on it in the voting thread, but yeah... it's awesomenesssss. What really struck me were the details and how important they were to this piece.

Deathraider, I absolutely love the piece. It is so flowing, and the orchestration was surprisingly well done (Though I do not know much about orchestration, so I may not be one to take advise from). I found it to be extremely moving and cinimatic.

The flute was very smooth and flowing, and the strings were great. The transitions between sections were seemless and the over all feeling of the song was very well expressed though the choice of instrumentation and dynamics.

As Noir already stated though, I am very impressed with the little things. Dynamics, transitions, flowing intrumentation...It all added to a wonderful listening experience to which I was very pleased.

Without a doubt, some of your best work. :)

Since this seems to be getting ignored in the composing general chat:

Does anyone know how the bagpipes work? I want to write a Scottish style song for Reflections. The theme is "My favorite place...", and the Highlands of Scotland are by far my favorite place that I've been so far. So yeah, I know the bagpipe uses just tuning as opposed to equal temperment, so what key is the most common variation of bagpipe tuned to, and how do the drones work? I looked it up on Wikipedia, but it didn't make very much sense. I also looked it up on Encarta, but it didn't tell anything that I needed to know, either.

Well... not sure how bagpipes work but if I were to compose a Scottish theme, I wouldn't use the clichéd pipes to represent it! You could totally capture the scottish feel with other instruments.

Uhm, yeah!

You simply blow into it, and the bag inside collects the air. When you build up enough air in the bag, get your fingerings ready and "smush" the bag inward so the air releases.

Hope this helps.

PS - Just say if you need a little more clearer explanation.

No, I didn't ask for the mechanics! GRAR. I asked for very SPECIFIC information! READ THE WHOLE THING!!! *is in bad mood*

Oh well, I figured it out by listening to a song with a highland bagpipe in it. It's tuned to Bb Mixolydian (3 Flats), and the 2 tenor drones play the Bb below middle C and the bass drone plays an octave lower.

Anyway, I don't think the bagpipes are cliché. I think they can be extremely beautiful if used correctly. I'm only using them at the very beginning, though.

*bump*
I started this little organ diddy and decided I liked it. Tell me what you think so far.

Edit: I just switched a couple things around and added an mp3.

huh, i guess its ok, but i think its missing something... i dont know what o.o maybe if you added a clarinet and a drum set... :think: hey, it might make a catchy rock tune ^_^

Wuut... adding a clarinet to this would be like adding Hannibal to a vegetarian's club.

I think it does pretty well by itself, instrument-wise, but the actual song is something which slips my mind I'm afraid -.-;

Damn thats really nice, after this it could evolve into a fugue or something.

great job!

what? you dont think itd sound good with the clarinet arpeggiating the chords to the beat of the drums?

and i disagree, it sounds empty as an organ solo... if a clarinet wouldnt sound good, at least add the drums...

Drum set makes anything like this bad.

Sounds empty, eh? I'm getting really mixed messages about that one. Some people, not just on ichigos, have said that it's empty, and some say that it's good. It probably depends on whether you listened to the midi or the mp3, though, because in the midi you can't really hear the bass part very well.

Edit: if you want to show what you mean, though, you're welcome to make the necessary changes to what's there and post it.

what? you dont think itd sound good with the clarinet arpeggiating the chords to the beat of the drums?

and i disagree, it sounds empty as an organ solo... if a clarinet wouldnt sound good, at least add the drums...

What...? o_O Organ is one of the 'fullest' (homogeneous) timbre instrument, how can it be 'empty'/'hollow'? Even if you put another instrument over it, it makes no significance over the organ, since organ is pretty much good on its own, or it could be adapted to certain orchestral or 'recital' (by that, I mean like singing accompaniment, but it's usually done on smaller organs like harmonium) scores.

i dont mean the instrument, i mean the actual song, because... i dont know... o.o something about it...

and i only listened to the MIDI cuz i hate listening to mp3s because they take too long to buffer or whatever... but ill listen to it, and ill see...

EDIT: wow, nvm, the mp3 was much better ^_^ i dont think its empty at all, good job ^^

Hey, just to get my thread back up, here's a Fanfare I started writing.

Also, I edited my last contest entry and entered it into reflections, so here's that.

Uh... I'm not sure if I like it or not. :heh: I really don't know. I might be able to tell you once you post up more of it. Up until then, nothing draws in my attention.

Fanfare: I don't think English Horn is fitting for those particular notes... Or rather, English Horn isn't fitting for fanfares at all! Well, I think you want the piece to be orchestral not band right? If so, write out the string parts, don't just do 'string ensemble' on one staff. Secondly, the orchestration is too tight, and I think you can understand why ithat's not good. Also, (I'm picky when it comes to scoring) why did you put subito piano when the instruments are not playing? You don't need to apply dynamic markings to instruments that aren't playing. Also, the 'mf' somewhere on the first page is on a barline, fix that.

Don't criticize sheet music please. That's like walking into someone's house before its finished being built and telling them it's messy. I'll worry about that when it's finished. As for the English Horn thing, what do you suggest I replace it with? Saying that an English Horn doesn't belong in a Fanfare is highly stereotypical, and so it would be nice if you would say what it is about that particular instrument's sound qualities that you would deem unfitting.

PS. Happy Thanksgiving. Also, I wasn't offended in the least. I just hate it when people tell me to put the strings on seperate staves, because it just doesn't work on my computer with GPO with how little memory the computer has.

Oh please don't be offended by my criticism, I was just trying to help. ;) And which instrument you ask... Hm... Since you chose English horn (which was known for its warm, somewhat nasal and dark quality), I would suggest bass clarinet, french horn or instruments along the line of 'roundness' and 'warmth'.

OK, thanks.

Edit: Here's the beginning of the Summer movement of my sonata. It's also going to be the minuet movement, as I'm sure you will be able to tell.

Edit2: Song last updated after Alfonso de Sabio posted.

Measure 16-17 sounds awkward... Other than that, good job so far, it sounds great, especially measures 5-8; I like how you varied the theme in measure 11 (the sixteenth notes) :)

Wow, your other movments sounded a lot more modern--this is almost classical; neo-classical even maybe.

I'm continuing the feel of the end of the Spring movement, which I think sounded fairly classical. It's almost Baroque, though, because of how much I tried to ornament it (besides the fact that it's written for piano, because it sounds awesome on harpsichord, too).

I like it a lot! It really has a nice bounce to it! Great job, IMO! :lol:

Yeah, you have some very Baroque ideas swimming around in there. In some places I think your grace notes should be replaced by an 16th-dotted 8th combination. I am genuinely excited to see how you finish this one.

Thanks, and I'm so glad you're excited! My challenge now is trying to get Summer to transition from both the feel and the key of Spring to the feel and key of Autumn. Now that I made a transition within the piece from D Major b minor (both with a playful feel) into B Myxolydian (which I tried to give a sort of serene, peaceful feel), the next challenge is getting it smoothly into c# minor which I want to have a violently hot feel.

Oh, and on this song, anyone is welcome (for this song only) to criticize the sheet music, because it's not orchestrated, so I've been much more careful to tweek the sheet music as I go along.

I really enjoyed the more flowing parts begining at 0:50, sounds a little like Tori Amos right there...
im a little envious...=)

I think it's a pretty solid start. My tip would be to use a wider range of the piano here. A fast, light section would do this piece good.

@Noir7: Perhaps...I'm not sure where I'd put it, though.
@One Winged: Envious? What do you have to be envious of? Your pieces are fantastic! (Thanks for the flattery, though)

From Noir's comment : I think the Scherzo from Beethoven's "Pastorale" sonata would be a good example? Or no?

Lux Aeterna, what will be the final movement of my Requiem that I have decided to write. The latin words in the song so far:
Lux aeterna luceat eis Domine cum sanctis tuis in aeternum: quia pius es.

"Let eternal light shine upon them, O Lord, with Thy saints forever, for Thou art merciful."

Not too bad, Deathraider, though it does sound a bit rough in places. I would watch out for some of those dissonances, since some seem a bit sudden and out of place.

Though I like the idea, technically speaking, it doesn't work for a choir piece. You see, your tenor part have many crossovers or direct unisons with the alto part, which is a bad thing for choir pieces (oh, and not to mention it's a little to high for a choir, I mean, for soloist tenors, it's okay, but too high as a choir). Secondly, there were jumps in the bass part where it's too big (eg: an octave). When you write chorale pieces, avoid parallel octaves, parallel fifths, parallel fourths, crossovers, and tritone.

Yup, very rough indeed...

What you say about the tenor part's wrong. The tenor part is fine, I assure you. If you have doubts, take a look at Hallelujah Chorus (I just performed that tonight, singing the tenor part). The parallel perfect intervals thing I know I need to look at, as well as hidden parallel intervals. The range of the altos and tenors can cross as long as there is no "voice crossing," where one voice goes higher than the part above it just barely sang, or lower than the part below it just barely sang. Tritones are sometimes ok. Which tritone did you have a problem with if any?

Eddy, can you give specific places where you had problems with the dissonance?

Yup, very rough indeed...

What you say about the tenor part's wrong. The tenor part is fine, I assure you. If you have doubts, take a look at Hallelujah Chorus (I just performed that tonight, singing the tenor part).

~~~

Tritones are sometimes ok. Which tritone did you have a problem with if any?



I'm not saying that the tenor part is 'wrong', I'm saying that it's a little too high for tenor as a choir. And if you were to perform it, those poor tenors singing that high will possibly suffocate singing those high notes for so long. :P Furthermore, singing so high can make them out of tune since not everyone have the same endurance.

As for the tritone part, it's only okay if you use it as a leading chord back into tonic or something.

Tritone in the leading chord??? What a tritone is okay for mostly is a suspension. Once again, though, where was the tritone that you were referring to?

Are you a tenor in a choir? I didn't make the tenor part so that some middle school choir could sing it. If a tenor is actually chorally trained, like most choirs that sing Requiems are, he should be able to sing that without trouble. Just please trust me on this one. If it were above an A, then it would be out of tenor range.

Don't take my words as too defensive, but I like to get things sorted out, you know?

By the tritone thing, I was talking about vii(dim)6 chord. "Because the leading note chord is vii(dim) is a diminished chord, it is normally used only in first inversion rather than root position." That quote was directly from my harmony book, so you can't doubt that.

As for the tenor range thing, as I was saying before, I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's just hard to stay in tune, I mean, there aren't that many trained choirs that can perfect singing that. Furthermore, it's safer to stay in the more comfortable ranges for singers, cos if you're making them sing long pieces or suites like requiems, you don't want to tire them out that quickly.

Oh, I just realized something. Shouldn't the tenor part use treble clef with a little '8' below it to indicate it's an octave lower?

Blargh, you're obviously not going to listen to me...just drop the whole range subject and leave it be.

About clef, it depends on the song, but in this case I think you're right that it would be a good idea to use that clef instead. I'll wait until I'm done writing it to change it, though, because it's easier to see any harmony problems with the basses if I do that, like voice crossing, etc.

Sorry for the double post, but I'm posting a new movement, for solo Soprano, Organ, Harp, French Horn, Flute, Solo Violin, Viola, Cello, and Double Bass. The first flute that comes in is the Soprano voice.

Edit:updated since Sir_Dotdotdot's post, and excuse the gaping hole in the middle (that flute solo is really going to be accompanied when I get to work some more on it tomorrow), but I'll put more inbetween. Also, about Lux Aeterna, I'm adding a climax :P

Hm... I don't really like the tenth doubling of the horn and flute. The horn isn't at it's effective register, and will sound a little to tense to par with the flute. I also think the harp should play only when the organ isn't playing, cos I always fear that the timbre of the organ will overpower the harp. Other than those, it seems to be quite interesting.

The harp seems a little too loud IMO, but other than that, I liked it quite a bit. Nothing too "wowing," but good job nonetheless. :)

Not YET at least...

lol I'm getting mixed messages about the harp!

Your lastest song that I've heard, Pie Jesu, sounds really nice and it gives me the impression of a castle. Dark, but not evil. Somewhat like an abandoned chapel, if you ask me. But, that's just me. It sounds really nice. Good luck with futher compositions and keep up the good work.

OK, it's finished.

Does it need more counterpoint in the organ?

It sounds pretty good. :) Well, one suggestion though, add the marking 'non arp.' when you want the harp to play block chords, cos by default, harps plays all chord arppegios.

Like where? Didn't I roll most of the chords anyway?

Sounds quite mournful. It's very touching in my opinion. You might want something a bit more conclusive for the ending, though. ;)

If I had to find fault with it, it would have to be the fact that it doesn't seem to have any central melody. I kind of got lost after a bit. However, it does flow well, and I think you had nice use of instrumentation (as always). I like it a lot. :)

The introduction to the Introit for the Requiem (an idea I came up with last night):

I feel like putting something between the woodwind>organ transition... or probably holding the note longer?

(Thanks for the comment on my thread :) ).

The woodwind opening was too 'packed' and thick. Spread out the chords. Also, where's your second violin part? Normal string orchestras have violin I, violin II, viola, cello and contrabass.

If I don't want violin II I don't have to have a violin II, and I WANT a thick sound. I could tone down the volume, though.

Hmmm.. Even if you don't want a violin II, you still need to be cautious about the fact that having one HUGE section of violins will overpower the other sections, and so I suggest you to indicate a proper and fair amount of violins. ._.

As for the thick sound, let me expand: yes, you may have a thick sound to create the effect of an organ (it's actually quite a cool effect). But like I always say to others who orchestrate: by putting instruments very close together is putting your tuning into jeopardy. Furthermore, if you make a little mistake meshing the sounds, you may possibly end up with a very grey and tiring tone for the ears.

But if you insist on keeping your original idea, go ahead. I'm just giving you my knowledge about orchestration.

Thanks. Explain what you mean by a "gr(a)y and tiring tone."

You see, a very important principle in orchestration is to keep the sound fresh. But now that you mesh all the sounds together, you don't have other choices of instruments to make your instruments to sound new to the ear.

Why don't I have other instrument choices? That's just the intro to a choral piece for the Requiem.

No, that wasn't what I meant. Let me try to restate clearer: you used up your entire woodwind section in the opening. Then you used up your strings section. Now your audience heard all the instruments, it's not gonna be fresh to the ears even if they're your accompaniment. Getting what I mean?

This is what happens when you have to listen to a heightened amount of Mozart due to theory class and choir (in which we are learning the Mozart Requiem).

Another incomplete idea, but hopefully I'll be able to actually FINISH this! *gasp*

Nice! How about going down chromatically to Ab just where you ended it? Then to Fm... then back to Cm/Eb bass note...

I'll just leave it to you :]

that one could expand into something really nice. You should definitly keep working on it.

update

edit: in the midi, the volumes are really unbalanced.

I actually thought full orchestra was unfitting for this baroque-esque idea; you practically used your wind section like an organ since you seem to treat instruments by family/sections rather than individual pieces. I would say that you should use an organ with string orchestra for this piece instead of a full orchestra.

Um...no. That would be a COMPLETELY different effect, and I actually only used one wind instrument. The rest were brass.

Um...no. That would be a COMPLETELY different effect, and I actually only used one wind instrument. The rest were brass.

I consider brass instruments as wind instruments too. If I'm going to be more specific, I'd say woodwind or brass. But if you insist, then again, it's your choice, because I really find the wind parts quite unfitting for your piece. ._.

OMG ANOTHER UNFINISHED PROJECT. This time it's for organ, and I tried to make it interesting.

edit: Oh, and SirDot, I'm an idiot. I should know that the brass and woods are all called winds...

I haven't done much study on "Medieval Modes", but Lydian is the "mode" that starts from the 7th up, right?

Weird Key, though... (C# Major @_@ ). For some reason, to my ears, it doesn't seem suitable for organ(s).

Actually, you're thinking of Locrian. Lydian has the raised fourth, and therefore would be like having a tonal center of F with the key signature as no sharps or flats (in your words "from the 4th up"). The last few seconds of the piece so far, though, it switches into C# Major mode instead of C# Lydian Mode. However, the rest is Lydian.

What do you mean by "it doesn't sound suitable for organ"?

For some reason, I thought it would be better for trumpets/vocals/ensemble of instruments? (I don't know about that now).

:P But that was probably me being picky.

~About the last song you made (before this one), the winds are, to be honest, annoying :bleh: . Especially that one instrument that tried to play some of the melody (Clarinet).

But String + Brass did not go so well. Ever looked at the Garritan tutorials on orchestration yet? (Just a suggestion.)

Are you saying string + brass is bad period? If you are, you should know that it was very common in Mozart's music. That's the effect I was trying to achieve. I know the clarinet sticks out a bit depending on which one you listened to. I'll think about changing that. As you can tell, though, I'm better with harmony and voice leading than with orchestration.

Are you saying string + brass is bad period? If you are, you should know that it was very common in Mozart's music. That's the effect I was trying to achieve. I know the clarinet sticks out a bit depending on which one you listened to. I'll think about changing that.

Nope, I'm not saying it's bad period. I've actually studied a LOT of Mozart; I used to always listen to his music.

I listened to the mp3. For some reason, it sounded more like a "soft French Horn" . The only reason I suggested the Garritan tutorial is because it teaches you how to do it ;) .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

One thing that always helps me: LEARN THE TIMBRES! ;)

It actually helps me, a lot, when I am trying to blend instruments together. I have taught myself everything I know about orchestration, and it really helps, since I don't know orchestration as well as some others here.

I really enjoyed listening to both your organ piece and the string/wind one.
the brass gives the piece a really nice baroque feeling... I do´nt know if this will do you any good but it reminded me of the music for actraiser, I dont know why. Thats a great compliment right there, in case you did´nt notice =)

Thanks, but what's actraiser?

Its a game for the super-nintendo... awesome soundtrack!

Eh...dissonance just doesn't work with organs, sorry. I'd try a different instrument if I were you.

BS DISSONANCE DOESN'T WORK WITH ORGANS!!! You have to listen to some more of the organ pieces by John Rutter, man! What different instrument would you suggest?

Gaa!

Well, not in my experience with midi organs...

I dunno...harp?

NO, it wouldn't be playable for harp at all. Piano, maybe, but...

Are you saying string + brass is bad period? If you are, you should know that it was very common in Mozart's music. .

I think Mozart likes that effect because brass (excluding french horn, since classicists treats french horn as half woodwind and half brass) and strings never mix well, so they will always distinct from one another. So it's pretty good if you're striving for a more heroic and powerful sound, but if you're looking for a more mellow sound, stick with french horn and the other woodwinds, classical brass clarino playing doesn't really give a mellow tone that romantic brass playing does.

OK, update of this older song that I wanted to add on to. The only problem is that I think it might kind of be too lacking in form, but I really kind of wanted it to feel free in structure and have a wholly ambient feel (reminiscent of the Mack Wilberg Requiem I listened to).

Edit: this is also based a bit off of Eric Whitacre's style as well as a bit from Rachmoninov's Vespers.

I kind of get what you mean when you talk about the form thing... It's like you hear this nice moment of the piece, but when you try to remember it, you just go "hey, that was nice, but... how did it go again?" So yeah, that's kind of the only concern of this piece, other than that, I don't have anything much to say about it. Oh, actually, another thing, there was this note somewhere in the middle (I forget where) where there was this harmony note that was louder than the moving melody (it's probably nothing, since computer music always have weird note here even if you don't intend it to be there), so yeah... But other than those things, I think it's pretty nice.

Alright, what you described is ok, because that's basically how Wilberg's Requiem was. I don't remember a single melody from it, I just remember feelings I had during it and little things that left me hanging (in a good way).

Very, very beautiful piece you've "remastered" there deathraider. Definately my favourite of your compositions that I've ever heard. Those strings are so warm and--My God, just really beautiful.

Also, what exately does Lux Aeterna translate to, again?

Thank you very much! Lux Aeterna translated means "Eternal Light". Basically, I was trying to capture the feeling of all different manners of light.

Sorry for the double post, but I'm posting something new. I'm posting what I think I'm going to make the intro to the requiem, and I think it will be all instrumental.

Edit: I changed the chord in chord 5 because I had been debating whether or not to change that chord anyway.

Very beautiful use of ligature, I like it!

The only thing I didn't really like so far was in measure 5. The change from beat 2 to 3 just seemed a little to unexpected to me. Can't wait to hear how this will turn out!

This may not help much, but when I feel like I lack inspiration, I like to go for a walk, especially in the woods. I don't know what it's like where you live, but my advice would be to go to any special area you have in hopes that you'll find some inspiration.

Uh...Thanks, but may I ask what *inspired* you to tell me what *inspires* you seeing that I said nothing about lack of inspiration?

Uh...Thanks, but may I ask what *inspired* you to tell me what *inspires* you seeing that I said nothing about lack of inspiration?

:\

Oops. Wrong thread. :P

Someone can go ahead and delete that. Sorry to randomly post in your thread... :think:

requiem introduction

Beautiful suspensions/retardations throughout the piece. I really like the dynamic ebb and flow. The airy flutes above the lingering string chords underneath are really beautiful-sounding, too! The harp (though nearly inaudible) is a good support, too. :) I really like this!

Thanks!

I added another overlying harp part to the initial string part and changed the dynamics a bit to match how I want the Requiem to begin. I feel like it gives it a lot more purpose and direction and gives a little more interest to the first string part before the strings enter.

Ah, I really like it. The flute part is very well-written - it sounds so peaceful and expansive, which is exactly what I feel an introduction should sound like. Nice work! :lol:

Oh God! That's beautiful there Raider! Please, Keep it going! Would love to hear it fnished. ^.^

Nice job ^.^ . The chords are well written, better than what I can do, concerning chords :). Painful key >.<, but I believe it can be managed.

I know the key is hard, but I love the way it feels...I could use a flat key instead, though, that's enharmonic.

That is nice. Mystifying. The flutes comming in was perfect. I was wondering where you were gonna go after that intro and when the flutes came in, I thought, "Why did that not cross my mind!" lol. Great job!

This was something I came up with in my summer bordome today :heh:. It's kind of REALLY similar in style to Nocturne in Eb major by Chopin, but I already know that.

Lux Aeterna and requiem are really nice pieces. They have a very movie-like quality to them. The overlying harp is a nice addition too. :)
Piano diddy is short but a nice classical sounding song i like the change in the second half.
keep up the good work.

OK, I know I've already posted this a long (long) time ago, but I wanted to re-post it and get some fresh insight on it. I want to polish it up because I think I want to enter it in a contest. When I posted it before, I just called it Violin Harp Duet, but I have since renamed it as Memories of a Rose.

Ian this is really a pretty song. I loved the beginning. It sounds like the harp ha alot of reverb though, oh well still is a good song.
I would liked to have heard it a piano violin duet aswell.
And sry I cant give you better insight, just whether I liked it or not.
good work :)

I would liked to have heard it a piano violin duet as well.

That's how it started out, but it didn't sound quite as good in GPO as piano and violin. They were both too loud/harsh. A real piano and real violin might be better, though...

Do you have the .mus file so I could see how it sounds?

Sure. Here.

heres the mp3 with piano and violin.
I like it much better with piano ^_^

Wow, this is really beautiful! Deathraider, I'm surprized you haven't revised your compositions just a little more and send them for publishing. I know that this style is quite 'common' noadays, but I think it has a very enjoyable feel.

@Klona- If those weren't GPO sounds you added, what soundfonts were those? I'm wondering if I can get those, they're really nice.

I used gpo with kontakt 2(the one that comes with finale 2007) for the violin and the grand piano from kontakt 2's library.

It sounds different from mine for some reason. What settings did you use for reverb and stuff?

Wow, Memory of a Rose is beautiful. I listened to the piano version (that Klonoa posted) and it is gorgeous. I love the chord progression. :)

EDIT: Also, I love Lux Aeterna! It may be lacking in form, but that is something I like about it. It paints a very vague picture in my mind, but a beautiful one. It seems to focus more on raw emotion and feeling than conveying a specific scene. I like that about it!

Nice job on Memory of a Rose :).

It sounds different from mine for some reason. What settings did you use for reverb and stuff?

nothing imparticular umm i used garritan ambience and i always change the dry and wet settings. I cant remember where I put them but I usually just put dry on 0 dB and wet like i guess a half inch behind it.

Maybe it's just a personal preference, but I like the piano better as well. It's a very nice, peaceful piece, and I enjoyed listening to it.

Hmmm, I still don't think it has the same effect, but maybe live it'd be better...

OK, an experiment in VG music (I haven't done any for a long time). It might suck, but I dunno yet. I might need to add more to the loop, too, but I can't decide. There's like 4 minutes of it looping in the mp3, but don't bother listening to it though all the loops. :P

BTW, ignore the file name. It doesn't mean anything (anymore). I originally was trying to write a queen/styx style rock song, but it didn't turn out that way.

Edit: oops, just realized this is a double post. Sorry.

It's alright, but I really don't like that synth (?) instrument. Not the strings, but the other thing that comes in at the beginning. I find it annoying, and it takes away from an otherwise decent piece of music.

I like the idea, but the instrument-choice is not my cup of tea. And the loop is pretty short. Other than that, I like it. :P

I liked it. In fact, I like all of you new compositions. You've grown lots as a composer and I'm sure it's just as matter of time before you release a big hit around here.

Memories of a Rose is beautiful. You should check out works by Toshiyuki O'mori for examples of great piano/violin duets.

Good stuff. I know it isn't much of a showcase-like piece, but I definately like it; it's kinda like the VG music I was making for a game. (SIMILAR, SIMILAR Style)

latest WIP:

That sounds very video game-ish.

Firstly, I notice that you don't have a bassoon, but yet you have a contrabassoon. Don't you it's a little weird? Since contrabassoon sounds one octave lower than it's written but then everything else in your piece is rather high? Besides, if you really want that bass there, you can just use a normal bassoon, the range of the bassoon could still cover that, I just think a contrabassoon is a little too over the board.

Secondly, the second entrance of the oboe, you marked it as pianissimo. Which, as an oboist myself, I can tell you, it's not the brightest idea. You have no idea how thin and poor the sound quality when you play pianissimo above the staff.

That's all I have for now.

MIDI please?

I listened to "Rock" and I really like the theme. It's good for a VG, 'cause it's simple, but gives a certain mood.


There's like 4 minutes of it looping in the mp3, but don't bother listening to it though all the loops. :P


I replayed it twice. :lol::P

OK Noir7, here you go. I came up with an ending that's there, but if you try to skip past the blank space in the middle, it doesn't play for some reason, so just listen through the blank space :heh:

To SirDotDotDot, yes, it's strange that I'm using a double bassoon, probably, but I go down to a G below the staff, and wouldn't that be a little low for a regular bassoon? About dynamics, in real life, it would be played at a different dynamic level, so if I ever do sheet music, I'll change it. However, for playback, I use about 1 dynamic level less than how it would actually be played because that's how, in my opinion, Finale plays it back.

To SirDotDotDot, yes, it's strange that I'm using a double bassoon, probably, but I go down to a G below the staff, and wouldn't that be a little low for a regular bassoon?

It's not too low, it can go down to as low as the B flat below the staff.

Which a G below the staff is lower than a Bb below the staff.

Oh, it's that last note, I didn't see that.

But I still insist that it should be for a normal bassoon (put that G an octave higher), contrabassoon just doesn't work with that piece, too muddled.

Edit: nevermind.

Edit 2: I tried it with a normal bassoon in GPO and it sounded virtually identical.

Comments on "woodwind":

As Sir_Dotdotdot said, it would be better if it were for normal bassoon; woodwinds are better with "close spacing", rather than "far/open spacing" (especially since this a woodwind ensemble).

Since I'm a clarinet player:

-Meas. 21-22; C ---> Db ---> Eb isn't hard, but it can be done with a lot of practice (3 time hand alternating x_x ).

But if I just used a Bassoon instead of a contrabassoon, the actual spacing of the notes (except that one) won't change.

Well, I couldn't care less if it's a bassoon or a contrababoon, but the piece itself was a little bit disappointing - especially in contrast to your other new compositions which I thought were excellent in their own way. I felt that you repeated that small passage too often, and I don't really see why because it's... well, it sounds very unimaginative! I enjoyed the light accompaniment before the silence in the middle, but overall I think you could do much better.

I can't give you any solid advice because I'm not really familiar with the style, and I'm not sure what your intentions or purposes with this song is. So... I'll only give you my personal opinion this time.

Yeah, I need to come up with some more interesting chords for the piece since I've mostly been using only 3. :P I guess I was hoping the 7/8 time signature and the switches in and out of dorian mode would be interesting, though.

-Meas. 21-22; C ---> Db ---> Eb isn't hard, but it can be done with a lot of practice (3 time hand alternating x_x ).

At that tempo, I think it's pretty easy, personally. :P

As for the piece, I like it. The 7/8, in my opinion, gives it a nice, relaxed feel. However, if you were to extend it, I think you'd have to find some way to add some contrast or variation, because after a long while, relaxed tends to become boring for me. :P On that note, I do think you should extend it - it's a pretty nice start.

At that tempo, I think it's pretty easy, personally. :P

But you never know what could happen :heh: . I always base specific advice on if you are a beginner, at most times :heh: .

(*sorry for off-topicness*)

Basically: avoid the Eb key at most times in that one register if switching notes.

I guess I was hoping the 7/8 time signature and the switches in and out of dorian mode would be interesting, though.

My ears aren't that advanced yet, 7/8 just sounds like a chopped 4/4 to me and I don't have the slightest of clue what a Dorian mode is.

It's one of the 7 medieval modes, Aeolian, Locrian, Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, and Mixolydian. If you take the key signature of no sharps or flats (which would normally represent C Major or a minor), you can base a scale off of any of the keys that fit in the key signature. For example, Dorian is based off of D in this case (DEFGABCD), and Lydian would be based off of F (FGABCDEF). Aeolian sounds the same as the natural minor scale (if you don't raise the 7th scale degree to create the leading tone in minor songs, it can be considered Aeolian mode instead of minor), and Ionian the major scale. Try it on a keyboard or something with each of the scale degrees. (BTW, I listed them in order from A to G in no sharps or flats key signature).

Modes are often used in modern music (can't think of any famous examples at the moment...the works of John Rutter often use modes, but I'm not sure which ones because I haven't really analyzed his music, but my "Requiem Introduction" used Lydian mode) or ancient folk melodies (dorian specifically is used in such tunes as the popular Christmas tune, "What Child is This", and the tune "Wexford Carol" switches in and out of Mixolydian mode).

*bump*
Yet another WIP, and I don't know if I'll ever finish another song :heh:. Anyway, this is a movement of the Requiem (man, I really need to try to incorporate specific, ongoing themes throughout more of the movements), so tell me what you think of the beginning. It is scored for SSAATTBB plus Tenor Solo, supposed to be sung with very little vibrato, and in as much head voice as possible (so basically just as pure of a tone as possible).

BTW, the beginning is in Dorian mode, just to continue on my last post.

It's really hard to tell if this works or not since you're giving us so little of it. I mean, I guess the part works - but not on its own. As it sounds now there's nothing special about it, so it's up to you to compose something it can hold on to, and that way, it might work just fine. Music with religious themes have never been favourable to me, so I won't comment on the lyrics.

Also, my spider-sense tells me the title of the song translates something like Oh Light Night? I'm just curious if my lingual instincs serve me at least a little?

Actually, it means Oh Born of Light.

So I was close XD

Wow... Voices in 'pppp', something I've never seen before. I don't really think it will work the way you want though, if you want it to be performed live. Unless, that is, your 'pppp' would sound like a 'pp' and your dynamics are adjusted like many pieces with extreme dynamics. As Noir stated above, I can't really judge the music since there's so little. However, opinion-wise, I'm not really liking the harmony... It doesn't fit for the sacred melody.

How do you figure?

Well, because it's your piece, I shouldn't tell you how I want to harmonize it. I'm just stating the fact that I don't really like the harmonization.

I can understand that, but I disagree with your assessment that it is an inappropriate harmonization of a religious text. What don't you like about the harmony, though?

I didn't 'disagree', I merely said I didn't like it. And it's one of those times where you go "I don't like it because I don't like it, there's no reason to it".

I have to agree with Sir Dot, the harmonization needs improvement. The counterpoint in my opinion needs to follow the rules more carefully for this piece. I think I understand what you're going for but it isn't selling to me yet. I have something you may want to check out. It is a modern church piece but it follows the counterpoint rules very carefully. It's in a major key though and I see your going for something more minor, but the idea is the same...

Awesome music! keep it up

I don't think EITHER of you understand what I am going for. That chorale that you posted is nothing at all like the style I am going for. I was trying to go for a mixture between John Rutter Requiem and Eric Whitacre. I'm not going to follow all Baroque rules of counterpoint, if that's what's bugging you. BTW, Sir_Dotdotdot, I REALIZE you don't like it, but I didn't say that YOU disagree, I said that I disagree with YOU that "it doesn't fit for the sacred melody." I think your views of religious views are very narrow if that is what you think.

For some examples of what I'm going for, go here (http://www.crumble-onuts.com/music/Patronus_Light.mp3) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhAZ-fuObGc).

@Darkened_Angel: I'm glad someone likes it.

Edit

i liked it, i didnt find anything i disliked.
I guess it just didnt appeal to their personal taste. Its nothing to get bothered about. I cant always explain why i dont like a certain song either. Just respect their opinion.^^
Like noir7 its just a little part, but nice job though.

In my opinions, I really loved this piece, and after you posted what you were *going for* it really spoke to me. What Klona said, it's just their opinions and respect them, but I think the piece itself sounds great! I really respect your composition style, and encourage you to embrace this lovely genre of writing music.

Hope to hear this finished sometime in the future! :)

I for one had no problems with the harmony, I actually enjoyed it. As I said before though, as it is right now it lacks that special quality. I just hope that you'll add that special ingredient into this composition that I know you're capable of. Your other compositions show much promise in terms of interesting writing.

I agree fully with Mazeppa and disagree with PorscheGTIII and SirDotdotdot. That being said, I think it's unfair for you (Deathraider) to claim that those two are religiously narrow-minded. They were commenting on your composing style not matching with their expectations and preferences of religious music, not on religion itself.

I agree fully with Mazeppa and disagree with PorscheGTIII and SirDotdotdot. That being said, I think it's unfair for you (Deathraider) to claim that those two are religiously narrow-minded. They were commenting on your composing style not matching with their expectations and preferences of religious music, not on religion itself.

Exactly. Besides, I'm not a religious person, nor have I said it's not 'religious'. I just said it didn't sound the way I liked it.

And about the 'pppp'. I sing in choir and i find it very hard for us to sing that soft. I think 'pianoissimo' if not 'piano' is soft enough, as long as the melody remains a little louder. I think 'pppp' really adds color to it on the computer, but there would be no need to sing that light if people were singing it.

In all respect for the composer, I would admire the 'pppp' as a direction, not to sing really soft, but to express a quite emotion for the duration of the dynamic.

I say this because I've seen marks in piano music of 'fffff' and also 'pppp' and some pieces I've written, I have used a 'ffff' and 'pppp' expression. . .they're more expressive marks to me (when they're more than two letters) than "dynamic directions." :)

I sing in choir, too. It's hard, but not impossible, and that's the effect that I want. Anyway, I actually probably would only do 'ppp', but finale's dynamic levels are about a step up from what they should be (i.e. p plays back as mp).

@Sir_Dotdotdot and Noir7: I wasn't saying that he's religiously narrow-minded (or at least that's not what I meant), I was trying to say that they have a narrow view of religious music. I don't think what Sir_Dotdotdot said can be interpreted any differently than that.

@Noir7: Sorry for overeacting. My music is my baby :P

I haven't listened to anything else just yet, but I really like what little bit you have of O Nata Lux... :think:

The chords are not what I would call full (I would say... colourful, almost shimmering), but--at least how I see it--that "flaw" works in the piece's favour because, with the unexpected progression that you provide for such a religious piece, it creates a fog, a sort of of unexplainable mysticity... kinda like God or Jesus himself, right?

I think what you have of O Nata Lux is very effective... it may not be fashioned like most religious works, but its approach is very similar to that of Eric Whitacre's i thank You God for most this amazing day, and that is my personal favourite religious piece. :) And since Eric Whitacre was kind of the angle you were going for, it works!

I can also sense that little bit of John Rutter in there... the way you constructed the melody is irregular, and that seems to be his trademark (especially in his Requiem... namely The Lord is My Shepherd or whatever that part of the mass is called). For me, though... John Rutter and Eric Whitacre are a lot like oil and water; however, this piece combines them appropriately. ^_^ There's still something missing, though... Oh, I dunno...

Maybe it's the rest of it! :P

Oh, you have no idea how glad I am you said what you did about John Rutter. I love his Requiem so much! Make sure you listen to the Mack Wilberg Requiem as well when it comes out on CD (which will probably be around January, if you can find a copy) because it is truly amazing as well!

I wish I could figure out how to do good polyphony...

Yeah, it's a really nice piece. =P I'm working on something that's very Eric Whitacre-esque right now... whenever I post it, you should give it a look! </advertisement>

:think: It's just different, compared to how "most" religious works are. Especially the harmonization. I was in choir, until last year, and I probably wouldn't take the pppp literally; it's one of those "expression marks", for example, a teacher told me when playing a solo not to take the mark literally "as if you were playing in a band", but to play it "as if you were a soloist", which I interpreted as playing 1 dynamic louder.

By the way, Happy Birthday. :)

EDIT: I basically said what Mazeppa said. >.<

Happy Bday Deathraider, you're almost an adult now :)

Thanks! :P

I got Finale 2008 for my B-day, and so I've been playing around with it. The cool thing is that now you guys can stop bugging me about my dynamics, because the dynamics on it are actually correct.

Edit: here's some stuff I used the new stuff from GPO to make:

My only problem with the O Nata Lux is that the choir sounds like a synth-pad. Otherwise the dynamics, movement and (especially) harmonising are pretty interesting in both pieces.

IMO, the choir sounds somewhat better than MIDI choir, though. It's easier to visualize what it would really sound like, I think.

*bump*

O Nata Lux is completed, and I've arranged to record it with my High School Madrigals for my Internal Assessments in IB Music.

BTW, yes, the score is messy. I'll clean that up soon.

I love it.

Just one thing I would like to know, why wasn't the dissonance resolved between 1:46 and 1:48? It's very interesting.

I can't really describe WHY it doesn't besides saying that having it resolve just didn't sound right to me in the context of the song.

*bump*
Sorry to double post, but I wanted to bring this up to the top again because I really want some criticism on this piece before I record it.

Could you post a PDF?

Sure.

At bar 56, instead of C double sharp, make it a D natural, it's less of a hassle when the time of rehearsals come. Also, slur all the meslimatic notes (including the grace notes). Furthermore, if you have two parts playing together on a staff, put the upper note stem up and the lower note stem down, having the notes sharing a stem is harder to read.

As a question out of curiosity, what are the non-soloists singing? Ah-ing? Ooh-ing? or what?

I also noticed you used the bass voice's top range throughout the piece. If I were you, I would expose some of the rich middle and lower register as a contrast somewhere in the middle of the piece.

I don't have much personal opinions about it, since I'm not really fond of the chord progression or the melody for that matter. But good luck with your recording though.

Really, it's a beautiful piece. The only thing I would comment on is when you have notes a second apart for the same voice. I really don't know to much about choirs, but it would appear hard to keep such things in tune, which may be a problem in a rehearsal. It can most definitely be done, but it may require a little more rehearsal. If I said something stupid, please don't take offense because like I said, I lack experience in this field.

I can't wait to hear the final product!! ^_^

@PorcheGTIII: Nah, 8 parts is very common. It's not that hard to tune.

@Sir_Dotdotdot: Yeah, I realize this song doesn't really utilize much of the lower bass register, but I'm ok with that. As for changing the double sharp to the enharmonic, you are in fact wrong that it would make it easier. It makes more sense to a choir to have the double sharp because it fits the patterns they recognize when singing a raised leading tone in a dominant chord. It's better to stick with the theoretically correct written version in choral writing because of the way singers have to hear the notes in relation to each other (especially, for instance, when using solfege). Also, the chorus will be singing the notes on an "Ah" sound.

Just so everyone knows, I have been in choir for 6 years (and have been singing all my life), so I know what I'm doing when writing this music. It IS hard to sing, but I know that the people I'm working with can handle it (especially since I've already had 2 rehearsals with them).

Edit: clarification, solfege = do, re, mi, fa, so, la, ti, do (not to mention di, ra, ri, fe, fi, se, si, le, li, and te for accidentals). Our choirs, at least (since we use solfege to sight read because it makes things SO much easier) recognize the pattern in minor keys of having si in a dominant V chord (or leading tone chord). If they had to sing it as le instead of si, it wouldn't fit the pattern, and therefore it would be more confusing.

@Sir_Dotdotdot: Yeah, I realize this song doesn't really utilize much of the lower bass register, but I'm ok with that. As for changing the double sharp to the enharmonic, you are in fact wrong that it would make it easier. It makes more sense to a choir to have the double sharp because it fits the patterns they recognize when singing a raised leading tone in a dominant chord. It's better to stick with the theoretically correct written version in choral writing because of the way singers have to hear the notes in relation to each other (especially, for instance, when using solfege). Also, the chorus will be singing the notes on an "Ah" sound.

Just so everyone knows, I have been in choir for 6 years (and have been singing all my life), so I know what I'm doing when writing this music. It IS hard to sing, but I know that the people I'm working with can handle it (especially since I've already had 2 rehearsals with them).

I realized that you have sung in a choir (or multiple choirs) for many years, but staying away from double sharps or flats are more efficient for sight reading. But as you explained, if you want to retain the conventional harmony style, then I guess it has to be used. However, instrumentally speaking, it's an annoying thing reading double sharps or double flats.

Just a side-note, this piece is great.

Another side note, I (as a person who plays instruments, and can't sing very well) do not mind double sharps or flats.

I mean, does it really take so much thinking? I, in particular, thinks it doesn't.

If you sat down, read through the music at your own time, then no. But if you're in a rush or you're first time sight reading it, the yes. Your mind anticipates things when sight reading, and when it comes across unfamiliar symbols like double sharps or flats, then it'll get confused. That's how sight reading works for many people.

It all comes back to the K.I.S.S. principle, really. Why give yourself more trouble by using something fancy when you can use the conventional way to do things?

Actually, using the double sharp is the "conventional way of doing things". And it really depends on the method you use for sight reading. Anyway, let's move on from that.

@Mazeppa: thank you! :)

Actually, using the double sharp is the "conventional way of doing things". And it really depends on the method you use for sight reading. Anyway, let's move on from that.



For conventional, I don't mean following the rules of proper harmony. I mean convenience for the person who's sight reading the piece. And what do you mean by methods of sight reading? When you sight read, you're literally singing/playing as close as what's on the staff, that's all to it, really.

Yes, that's all sight reading is, but there are many different ways of going about that. As I said, solfege is one of the best ways to sight read vocal pieces. There are different techniques that help one sight read other instruments as well. Anyway, just accept that I happen to know that, for the most part, in choral music, the technically correct written version for "proper harmony" are nearly always best. BTW, conventional does not equal convenient.

As I said before, please stop posting about this topic on my thread. I really think that I am just repeating myself and that continuing this argument would be completely futile.

That sounded simply amazing.

And about the double sharp, Does it really matter?

No.

The piece is perfectly fine. End of story. :)

So... what are you working on now? Any drafts?

I'm working on a piece called "Alone Amongst the Stars" but there's not really enough to show yet. It's going to be very cinematic (hopefully :P).

Oh, and BTW, one other reason I need my piece to be technically correct is that it's being graded for technicalities.

No.

The piece is perfectly fine. End of story. :)

So... what are you working on now? Any drafts?

I still say yes, however, Deathraider and I discussed why and came to a compromise, hence it's no need for me to explain again. I'm merely giving advice to him, it's merely something between us, but whether if others disagree, that's not my concern.

As for Deathraider's new piece, I heard a small fragment of it, and it seems that it will turn out to be some interesting when it is complete. You all should look forward to it.

*ahem*
Anyone feel like a Prelude and Fugue in F# Minor for Organ?

Sure, Why not :)

*ahem*
Anyone feel like a Prelude and Fugue in F# Minor for Organ?

Ok. F# Minor is one of my favorite keys. :lol:

*ahem*
Anyone feel like a Prelude and Fugue in F# Minor for Organ?

Modulate into C Minor...cause I said so. :P

Maybe once I get into the Stretto section...that seems unlikely though, because eventually I have to get back to the key of F# Minor.

Here's what I have so far, I'll probably start said stretto fairly soon. (BTW, you'll probably remember the "Prelude" part because I've posted it before).

What are the odds of you making that a .MUS or .MP3 attachment?

Here...

Thank you.

Wow. That sounded really good! I'm assuming the cut off at the end though is because your not done yet?

The only thing I thought was weird, were the eight notes at 0:45. They just seemed Kinda random.

Very powerful start! I love it! Get it finished! :)

I really like it. In some places to me though, the lower voices seem to overpower the higher voices where I would expect the higher voices to be more dominant.

@ Etaroko and Mazeppa: Thanks!

@ Porche: There's not much I can do about that with Finale. If I had a real organ at my disposal, I could use different stops to bring out different voices.

Very good indeed. I know nothing of organs, so I won't comment much; But the latter half is what caught my attention, is that the fugue part?

(Perhaps I should give the organ a try..)

Update (http://www.crumble-onuts.com/music/Organ_Prelude_and_Fugue.mp3)

OK, I'm not sure if I should try to make this longer, but I'm sort of a fan of keeping fugues short, so let's see what you think of this:

I love how it sounds!

I think the organist is ready to kill you though around measure 31. :lol:
All those accidentals @_@

If I can follow this through, would you like to see if my organist would be willing to perform this?

I would love that! I was trying to see if I could get someone to record it for me! I know the accidentals are killer :( Do you think it needs to be done as a duet?

Wow, only one person? :( Isn't anyone else up to commenting?

I thought it was wonderful. But, I'm not a fan of the loud organ sound, but some how, I loved this. So great job.

I Notice one thing though...On the .PDF file, there was a breath mark before Moderato. An organist doesn't need a breath mark. And some of the 8th notes, you really couldn't hear.

But it was VERY good.

Oh, it's not a breath mark, per say, it's just a double bar line showing the separation between the Prelude and the Ricercare.

Oh, ok. It is technically a breath mark though...But I understand its purpose. But aside from that, that looked, and sounded, very well written.

An arrangement for TTBB of my favorite Christmas Carol: